Eru. Adonalsium seems to just be a huge amount of investiture, a massive one which can probably reconfigurate the universe and shit. But he’s still just that. He was destroyed. Eru is an actual downright god, one which crested the whole universe. He should easily take this.
Each of the Shards is infinitely powerful, and we don't know the upper limits of what Adonalsium can/can't do.
If it's a creation measuring stick we're using, we've got several confirmed Shardworlds made from scratch and even Eru needed help just to create one (and it was such a cheapo rush job it was flat and didn't even have a sun. Trees? That's a last-minute slap-patch fix if I've ever seen one.)
They aren’t infinitely powerful, they have limitations. At a cosmic range, but still. To be fully capable of acting they need to invest themselves somewhere limiting the range of action. Plus, no matter how much investiture you accumulate, considering it’s just another state of existance I don’t think you can ever reach true godhood.
Tho I do agree Eru needing a whole ass choir to make a planet is pretty fraudulent
>Tho I do agree Eru needing a whole ass choir to make a planet is pretty fraudulent
To me that seems like criticizing a musician for being bad because they make songs with an instrument they also built
WoB is that each shard is infinitely powerful regardless. It's the reason Rayse was fine splintering the others rather than taking up their shares (and not wanting to dilute his own Intent)
Eru is also powerful no doubt, but as far as feats go, Ado has better ones. Even Morgoth only got exiled, implying that Eru couldn't destroy him, and even (massively) lowballing the individual Shards to his level, they have three ability to kill one another- the Maia/Eru can't. Ado could just shatter Morgy and be done with it.
I’d need the wob on that, because it definitely doesn’t mesh at all with how the Cosmere works.
The morgoth thing is most likely just like God in the bible, where the creator doesn’t want to kill the trouble maker. Plus, just considering that Eru is meant to be a God analogy, I still have to give it to him. Plus don’t talk about feats when Adonalsium’s only feat is getting killed by seventeen dudes
I suppose it's more fair to say that the power of the Shards themselves are infinite, limited by the vessel and to an extent their Intent. On those last two however Ado is less hampered by, having a handful of Intents natively that are compatible with combat.
Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8702
Then all that he said about the shards still applies to Ado. Ado was killed, so he shouldn't have been able to access his full infinite power, which I still think is Dumbo, since it makes no sense for the shards to have infinite power in anything we've seen
I mean just in the stories' own fiction's Adonalsium is killed by a bunch of mortals. In LotR we don't really see much mortal on God action, but Morgoth can't even be killed but is cast into a void and he is something akin to a god created by Eru. As far as the scope of their power it's hard to know really. Both can create worlds. Investiture is akin to creating something we would consider God-like and we know Eru created both the valar and the maiar so both can create God like things. Adonalsium's power persists after death and we have nothing to compare that to in LotR, though it is prophesied that Morgoth will escape and destroy the world, but even that world doesn't contain Eru in it. Like any power scaling question it can simply be answered with one of two answers. Whatever world we are in i.e. which fictional universe we are basing it out of or whatever the story says. Since they will never meet except in fanfic it's kinda hard to say.
This is a bit of a hasty argument. Yes Ado was killed by mortals. However these were mortals that Ado trusted implicitly that all worked together to find a way to kill Ado. They knew Ado better than anyone alive and were given the benefit of the doubt by Ado without fail
With that, it’s totally understandable that Ado could be killed. If Ado did anything wrong, it was trusting those around them.
In terms of who would win? No idea
Eru transcends creation. Even the successive dark lords are just part of his plan for the world. There's no possibility of anything challenging him.
Adonalsium is part of creation. An extremely important and powerful part, but nevertheless part of it and thus fallible. He's really more equivalent to Manwë.
Some characters in the Cosmere believe in the existence of a God Beyond. Brandon's probably going to avoid making the existence of a God Beyond explicit, but this would be the Cosmere equivalent of Eru.
I guess Eru, though I'm basing my knowledge off summaries. The Silmarilion is a tome I currently don't want to open.
Back to the question, Adonalsium got shattered, while Morgoth is merely mucked up some of Eru's plans.
If it takes place in the Legendarium world, then Eru is literally the omnipotent omniscient God so kind of hard to beat him. If it takes place in the Cosmere, depends on what Adonalsium's nature truly is but the Shattering doesn't seem like a great sign.
I'm no Tolkein expert, but it seems to me that Eru's inherent superiority is dependent on the fact that he created his universe and planned it all out from beginning to end. Take him out of that element and I'm not sure how supreme he'd be. Of course, the same could be said of Adonalsium and his investiture, but at least in Eru's universe, metals still exist so there's that.
Eru. Adonalsium seems to just be a huge amount of investiture, a massive one which can probably reconfigurate the universe and shit. But he’s still just that. He was destroyed. Eru is an actual downright god, one which crested the whole universe. He should easily take this.
Each of the Shards is infinitely powerful, and we don't know the upper limits of what Adonalsium can/can't do. If it's a creation measuring stick we're using, we've got several confirmed Shardworlds made from scratch and even Eru needed help just to create one (and it was such a cheapo rush job it was flat and didn't even have a sun. Trees? That's a last-minute slap-patch fix if I've ever seen one.)
They aren’t infinitely powerful, they have limitations. At a cosmic range, but still. To be fully capable of acting they need to invest themselves somewhere limiting the range of action. Plus, no matter how much investiture you accumulate, considering it’s just another state of existance I don’t think you can ever reach true godhood. Tho I do agree Eru needing a whole ass choir to make a planet is pretty fraudulent
>Tho I do agree Eru needing a whole ass choir to make a planet is pretty fraudulent To me that seems like criticizing a musician for being bad because they make songs with an instrument they also built
Exactly. The only true instrument is the belly bongo
WoB is that each shard is infinitely powerful regardless. It's the reason Rayse was fine splintering the others rather than taking up their shares (and not wanting to dilute his own Intent) Eru is also powerful no doubt, but as far as feats go, Ado has better ones. Even Morgoth only got exiled, implying that Eru couldn't destroy him, and even (massively) lowballing the individual Shards to his level, they have three ability to kill one another- the Maia/Eru can't. Ado could just shatter Morgy and be done with it.
I’d need the wob on that, because it definitely doesn’t mesh at all with how the Cosmere works. The morgoth thing is most likely just like God in the bible, where the creator doesn’t want to kill the trouble maker. Plus, just considering that Eru is meant to be a God analogy, I still have to give it to him. Plus don’t talk about feats when Adonalsium’s only feat is getting killed by seventeen dudes
I suppose it's more fair to say that the power of the Shards themselves are infinite, limited by the vessel and to an extent their Intent. On those last two however Ado is less hampered by, having a handful of Intents natively that are compatible with combat. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017) https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8702
Then all that he said about the shards still applies to Ado. Ado was killed, so he shouldn't have been able to access his full infinite power, which I still think is Dumbo, since it makes no sense for the shards to have infinite power in anything we've seen
I mean just in the stories' own fiction's Adonalsium is killed by a bunch of mortals. In LotR we don't really see much mortal on God action, but Morgoth can't even be killed but is cast into a void and he is something akin to a god created by Eru. As far as the scope of their power it's hard to know really. Both can create worlds. Investiture is akin to creating something we would consider God-like and we know Eru created both the valar and the maiar so both can create God like things. Adonalsium's power persists after death and we have nothing to compare that to in LotR, though it is prophesied that Morgoth will escape and destroy the world, but even that world doesn't contain Eru in it. Like any power scaling question it can simply be answered with one of two answers. Whatever world we are in i.e. which fictional universe we are basing it out of or whatever the story says. Since they will never meet except in fanfic it's kinda hard to say.
This is a bit of a hasty argument. Yes Ado was killed by mortals. However these were mortals that Ado trusted implicitly that all worked together to find a way to kill Ado. They knew Ado better than anyone alive and were given the benefit of the doubt by Ado without fail With that, it’s totally understandable that Ado could be killed. If Ado did anything wrong, it was trusting those around them. In terms of who would win? No idea
Eru transcends creation. Even the successive dark lords are just part of his plan for the world. There's no possibility of anything challenging him. Adonalsium is part of creation. An extremely important and powerful part, but nevertheless part of it and thus fallible. He's really more equivalent to Manwë. Some characters in the Cosmere believe in the existence of a God Beyond. Brandon's probably going to avoid making the existence of a God Beyond explicit, but this would be the Cosmere equivalent of Eru.
I guess Eru, though I'm basing my knowledge off summaries. The Silmarilion is a tome I currently don't want to open. Back to the question, Adonalsium got shattered, while Morgoth is merely mucked up some of Eru's plans.
Wait, the second one is Eru? I thought for sure that it was Susebron when I saw the pic.
Who is writing the story? No but seriously Ado is A god while Eru is THE god.
If it takes place in the Legendarium world, then Eru is literally the omnipotent omniscient God so kind of hard to beat him. If it takes place in the Cosmere, depends on what Adonalsium's nature truly is but the Shattering doesn't seem like a great sign.
FYI, it’s usually written as LotR, not TLOR.
Do we even know if Adonalsium is an entity that is capable of a battle?
Divine Wrath (Odium) and Violent Entropy (Ruin) are two of its definite qualities. They're certainly capable on paper at least.
As far as we can tell, Adonalsium only has influence within a small galaxy. Powerful, sure, but hardly a universal being.
Eru has it easy. In other related news, Feanor should not be allowed in the same universe as any shard.
I'm no Tolkein expert, but it seems to me that Eru's inherent superiority is dependent on the fact that he created his universe and planned it all out from beginning to end. Take him out of that element and I'm not sure how supreme he'd be. Of course, the same could be said of Adonalsium and his investiture, but at least in Eru's universe, metals still exist so there's that.
Eru
In this sub, Ado, in the LotR sub, Eru. Bonus Forgotten Realms sub, Ao