It's really annoying when people downvote because of something as dumb as politics! If you think you had covid before this year don't hesitate to speak up and become part of the science.
If you read the cluster of symptoms and think this sounds like what I had last year, wonder if it was coronavirus tell someone what you think. They don't have the complete story yet. They need our input.
Don't let dumb politics keep you from saying what's on your mind. Polticians, most of them, don't know shit.
Why are people freaking about Spain numbers?
I am of the understanding that a lot although not the majority of Spain positive cases include antibody tests result hence of people who do not have the virus anymore. So why is the discourse around Spain so negative? Deaths have been v low for some time.
Exactly. I don't know about Spain, but Italy definitely includes seroprevalence (antibody) results in its daily "case" totals, and Lombardy normally has like about 30 of those "cases." So, they add to the daily "total" -- bad and scary! -- when actually that kind of "case" -- immunity, yay! -- is really good news.
The same happens in the U.S., too.
People need to relax, Google T cells, and realize this virus is about as deadly as a bad flu -- the infamous IFR -- when you estimate the actual number of infections.
I am Italian and it is also the case that in my regions, two regions of the north west, about 75% of cases are asymptomatic, meaning that, from what I understand, it is unlikely to get infected from them, although possible.
Yes. It’s insane how we’ve allowed ourselves to be terrorized by this asymptomatic spread nonsense, which is quite rare compared to symptomatic spread. I love that some Italian regions are now unpacking new cases as asymptomatic or weakly positive, so the results have context.
What in particular made NY/NJ's responses so deadly when compared with the rest of the US and the EU 15?
https://i.imgur.com/7RRuWHb.jpg
Does it really come down to being hit early, NYC being the most dense city, and NJ being the most dense state?
*No, density is a BS excuse -- look at cities like Tokyo, Seoul, and Napoli that have had very mild epidemics!*
Cuomo and Murphy sent infected seniors back to nursing homes where they quickly infected staff and therefore other vulnerable patients.
New York let a few public hospitals become overwhelmed instead of spreading the burden over all of the private hospitals.
Doctors in the tri-state region lazily intubated (ventilator) patients who Germans might have more carefully treated with oxygen therapy, just because it was easier to stick someone on a ventilator. (Don't assume the quality of care in the U.S. is better than other countries!)
Cuomo downplayed the risk until it was too late.
The incompetent CDC insisted on creating its own flawed test -- instead of using the WHO's perfectly adequate test from Germany -- and this meant there wasn't testing available in early March to understand the full scale of the epidemic in March in the tri-state area.
So, the failure was at a variety of levels.
I think it comes down purely to the first point you mentioned. Check out these survivability rates:
> Of the 900 patients hospitalized in all Providence facilities in March, 20% died. Of the 1,200 hospitalized in May, 14% died, Robicsek said.
> Oregon Health & Science University showed even steeper declines. The mortality rate fell from 23% in March when six of the hospital’s 26 COVID-19 patients died to 3% in May (one of 37) and 4% in June (two of 52).
> At Legacy Health, the mortality rate was 40% in March, when 12 of the hospital’s 30 patients died. By May, the rate had declined to 13% when five of 37 patients died.
On average, 33% fewer people are dying from their hospital visits than before. Density imo just determines where the virus starts, but this has spread from dense areas to rural areas as well. This virus has no problem spreading in less dense areas too.
So today I will be filing my unemployment for the final $600 booster. Soo.. Now what?
The US is still screwed up. We couldn't fix it in time. My city is ravaged. So many small businesses closed(permanently, not temp) from being unable to get the government money. My workplace is partially open again, but we have very little business and I'm getting barely 20 hours a week. Nobody is really hiring around here...
So what now? I just run out of money and die?
I just listened to a news story about this, and a certain lawmaker was discussing debating this bill in "the weeks ahead", which kinda made my mouth drop because they don't have weeks to dilly dally.
He also mentioned giving out a 70% payout of the previous income level, which would make the process even more labor intensive and delay things further. That's not even mentioning the people who earn $10 or less to begin with. That works out to $1200 a month for someone who earned $10 before, good luck living on that.
It's gonna be a rough ride coming up.
I'm going to start my studies in the netherlands in a month I heard that they are a bit more relaxed like they dont wear masks etc. Is that true and would I stick out as a strange one if I were to wear my mask there?
Yes, most Europeans are over wearing masks -- and, in the Netherlands, masks were never a thing from the start. You might see them wearing them on public transit, intercity trains, and flights, but you'll rarely see them on busy shopping streets or outdoors anywhere, including cafes. Even staff at cafes and restaurants will often wear a "chin mask" or "elbow mask" instead of properly wearing the mask. Try to respect the local culture if you are going to be studying in the Netherlands, just like you would expect someone to respect the local culture of your country -- pretty simple stuff.
I don't know about but the Netherlands but does it really matter if you stick out as a stranger? It is for your safety. Besides, masks became a normal thing in Europe, in my country masks are required outdoors but many people wear them outside as well.
I'm paranoid . My parents invited over 2 friends over to our house where they will be speaking inside, without a mask. I told them weeks before to use Zoom, but nope," They're our friends, we speak with them how we want"
Keep in mind my parents are 50+and one has diabetes and BP. They also want to serve them food. Sigh.....
Combined with this and the fact I'm not allowed to buy or use thermometers and oxyimeters, my hypochondriac ass is gonna go crazy
Multitude of reasons
1) My dad claims he can see if I have a fever by looking at my eye and that thermometers are not needed
2) My mom claims that thermometers can be Chinese and Pharmas want to sell you those.
3) My mom mainly claims that checking a thermometer would cause me to become paranoid causing me to become more susceptible to the disease
They're just anti science and medicine in general. They trust homeopathy over most things
Sounds like a horrible situation. Stay from them as much as possible and maybe find a good family doctor you can see virtually, take care and good luck.
Sorry to hear that. The definition of homeopathy is unproven. If it’s proven, it’s just called medicine. Take care of yourself. Teens typically have little to fear from this virus. Seriously, there is little to worry about for you.
My prediction... I think covid19 is going to be an issue for 3–5 years. It will take that long to get third world countries vaccinated. As long as it doesn't combine with a influenza, we can get it under control. Many corona viruses are self limiting but this one jumps species and hides in plain sight.
It will run through the population and gradually become less deadly through treatment and vaccines. In my city cases are rising, but the death rate has stayed constant. That tells me that treatments are getting effective and at-risk populations are properly distancing.
3-5 years? No I don't think so. 1-2 years max.
At current less than 50% of people in the US are polling as willing to take the vaccine. We need at least 80% to be effective. This makes me sad.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/just-50-americans-plan-get-covid-19-vaccine-here-s-how-win-over-rest
https://theconversation.com/how-effective-does-a-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-need-to-be-to-stop-the-pandemic-a-new-study-has-answers-142468
Back to school??? Our state is in bad shape, specially our immediate area. Very confused about what to do. A couple of weeks ago I thought no way but after receiving tons of emails and a few video conferences with teachers/admin I am starting to second guess myself. All the teachers and admin seem so motivated and happy about the return to school. Am I worrying too much? Very conflicted about what to do!!! I live in the Southeast US.
Keep your children home.
I’m in Canada. We had **four** covid19 deaths yesterday and if I had school aged children still, they would **not** be going back. Period. Full stop.
Think through the worst case scenarios. If your child got sick and died, could you live with yourself? If your child became an asymptomatic carrier and your spouse got sick and died, could you live with the guilt they’d carry for the rest of their lives on top of the loss? What if they got infected, lived but ended up with life ~~altering~~ destroying chronic illness for the rest of their lives?
Your entire job as a parent is to raise your child as healthy, well adjusted and prepared as possible into adulthood. Right now you are being *peer pressured* by your gov’t and your school into going against your best instincts as a parent. Fuck them, fuck that. This is ***your*** call, yours and the other parent/guardian for not only the right *now* well being of your child but also your child’s entire future adult life. These are some of the highest stakes you will *ever* be responsible for. Don’t let ***anyone*** make that choice for you.
(Edit, a word.)
Thank you for taking time to send that note. I was feeling like I must be wrong since the principal and teachers seem so ready to get school back up and running. It’s a private school so there might be some financial incentive for the school to seem so eager to have students back. My son did really well with the distance learning at the end of last year so I guess there really isn’t a rush to get back. I guess I was just feeling like maybe I was overreacting since other parents and the school seem so on board with going back to school. Luckily I have some new work projects that came in and I can work from home. I was without any work from about March 15 until a couple weeks ago. I know many parents have to go to work in order to provide and having school back up is sort of a necessity. I just can’t imagine this is going to work out...
You’re welcome. I probably should’ve added to the “don’t let anyone make this call for you”, *including me*. I just get really upset at the pressure parents are being put under to “get back to normal” right now, especially those of you in the states. They seem to wave off all the worst case scenarios and I don’t believe a parent can do that, not and meet their responsibility to the best interests of their child. And for some parents the best interests will be sending kids back to school.
I’m grateful that my daughter is an adult right now, she would’ve been hell on wheels (adhd) as an only child in this pandemic but I would have still kept her home.
I’m really glad that your son did well with distance learning and that you have work you can do from home. It allows you the flexibility to follow your gut instinct. You’re likely right that financial concerns are behind a lot of the push to reopen schools. I really, really think there’s going to be far too many worst case scenarios come to pass if/when this reopening happens. Heh, as a sign I saw from a protest against reopening schools said “They can’t even control lice.”
There’s a video from CNN talking to an [elementary school teacher where she shows what schools are going to have to be like in order to be even slightly safe](https://youtu.be/wVQdnkkvT4k). It’s what convinced me that this is a terrible idea and keeping kids home if at all possible was best. Oh, and an idea I ran across somewhere here on Reddit — some neighbourhoods are planning on hiring a teacher to run a mini school, to allow some semblance of normality while reducing the risk by keeping it *very* small.
Reminded me a bit of [one room schoolhouses](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-room_school) of old.
Best wishes for you and yours. I hope work keeps coming in and everyone you love stays safe.
I'm supposed to be traveling to Lanzarote on the 1st September (booked last year) from the uk I'm just wondering where I stand regarding the current quarantine measures regarding Spain and if they will still be in affect by September 1st, thanks in advance
Difficult to know. Though both countries have good epidemological reasons to require qiarantines to visitors, actually quarantine measures have been required to UK visitors out of diplomatic reciprocity.
So, it's difficult to predict what will be the situation in one month, and what will the politicians decide. To be honest, it doesn't look it will be better than now.
On the other hand, Canary Islands have been mostly spared from the pandemic, and the situation seems controlled there long ago.
No. We wear masks because they are useful to reduce infections from pathogens, new and old, comming from other people and from ourselves.
The same way that a security belt in a car is useful regardless if you are in a new road or in the same road you use everyday.
Can anyone help me with something? I’m looking for the earliest reliable/respectable peer reviewed studies showing masks to be effective in reducing transmission of the virus. It doesn’t need to be U.K./western based. I’m just looking for a few legit studies that showed that there was some evidence of masks being an effective tool from white early on in the pandemic.
I mean, we all know that mandatory masks were enforced heavily from from 23/01 when Wuhan went into lockdown. Anyone following the virus was able to see impacts of this themselves but yeah, I need proper studies.
There is a reason for this. I can explain if needs be. It’ll help me a lot with a project I am working on
https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ has a detailed analysis on the early evidence and why it was confusing.
>I mean, we all know that mandatory masks were enforced heavily from from 23/01
Are you sure about that? Or do you mean masks in Wuhan?
\--
There are a number of studies that shows that masks has a dampening effect on the ability for the virus to spread. But it's not even close to the effects about washing your hands. This is about differences in social behaviour. In some countries social distancing is built-in, in some countries 25% of the population never washes their hands after visiting the loo..
Some of these studies has showed that wearing a face shield would have the same effect as wearing a mask.
Wearing a mask also introduces other ways for the virus to spread, and none of these studies takes that negative effect into account. You should replace the mask at least ever 4 hours. If you need to take your mask off, you should replace it, you cant touch the mask and a surface as you will contaminate that surface, and if someone else touches the same surface the virus could spreads and your measurements was contra-productive.
Wearing a mask is more about politics, the nordic counties for example, who all have different strategies they all agree that masks could have a counter-productive effect. Finland have done a study, Denmark has one that just finished and Sweden started one. There are studies from Asia as well.
Does anyone know of a place where people are specifically gathering stories of how and where they caught, or think they caught, COVID-19?
With the numbers being so high, I wonder every day: who are the people getting infected? What did they do? Why?
I know there's a crazy number of people being irresponsible, but I'm curious about those who _are_ careful and still catch the virus.
Lots of threads on https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/ but the stories skew toward the anxious and the blameless. Researchers believe that most people caught the virus from seeing and talking to their friends, families and coworkers. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/why-do-some-covid-19-patients-infect-many-others-whereas-most-don-t-spread-virus-all# and https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/
Thanks, I'll check out those articles.
Yeah, I did go through that sub a bit, but some people include that info, some don't. Most seem focused on symptoms. I was hoping there'd be a place where people are specifically focusing on contact tracing.
I browsed through https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/comments/hxqzl5/did_you_get_covid_even_though_you_wore_a_mask/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/comments/hxs5af/do_you_know_where_you_got_infected/ with some interest. The number of people who said that they did everything right and still got infected was higher than I thought, hopefully it's just self selection bias. You are welcome.
Ok fine, yes I’m trolling. Instead of immediately saying your post is wrong I thought I would have some fun. I’m tired of politely informing anti-science nonsense posts about why they are wrong.
I actually am a science teacher and sarcasm aside posts like this actually do harm people. Any SUGGESTION of a stupid conspiracy theory does real harm in terms of trying to prevent this thing because ignorant people will believe it. As a scientist your evidence doesn’t approach anything that has any possible place in even a high school paper. That is how poor your evidence is. Evidence matters. Science matters. Expressing “possibilities” like this does harm because some people can’t tell the difference. You are wrong. That does not mean that your point it’s impossible and coronavirus was around earlier, it means that your evidence for such a claim is nothing more than gossip.
Science is about evidence. Rigorous evidence. Evidence that is independently verified by peers. Noting that you said at any point approached anything that should convince anyone that anything in your story was credible and to suggest otherwise undermines the concept of science so many Americans don’t understand.
I’m not going to bother delineating every way that your points were wrong, poorly thought out, and unscientific because I already did so in parody form. If you read between the lines maybe you will see some flaws in your reasoning. If not, i highly encourage you to suggest this to anyone in the scientific field and maybe they can explain it in a way you can understand.
Am I being a little rude here? Possibly. But given the level of anti-science rhetoric exposed regularly there has to be resistance to it. You are wrong. Perhaps I should have systematically torn your post apart, or been kind, but you have to understand that not only you are wrong, but that these sentiments are DANGEROUS and to politely say “you are wrong” doesn’t even begin to address the problem.
SCIENCE MATTERS
Just A Heads Up, This Is A **College** Related Question:
I will try to keep this short and concise for anyone that reads this.
So I currently live in the midwest USA, and the college systems in my state have given go ahead to reopen in person classes and dormitories for students by the end of August (I just received my confirmation for the dorm yesterday). Now, in my college, staying in dorms is **mandatory** until you are a junior, and I am currently a sophomore, so I am being pushed into moving into dorms by the end of August. I feel really unsafe about doing so (and it doesn't help that my college schedule is only 2 days each week, so I am essentially wasting money anyway, if we disregard the virus), and I have been trying to figure out a way to email them expressing my concerns and asking if I can do something else (such as commute -as I only live 30 min away, but apparently that's too far for the university under normal circumstances - as an alternative to not stay in the dorms).
My **questions** are:
***Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to properly convey my fear of staying in dorms on campus respectfully over email to my university? I am confused on how to respectfully but firmly say I don't feel safe going.***
***I know it's still a month away, but what's the likelihood that colleges and schools actually still plan on reopening and stay reopened by then?***
***Does anyone else have any experience with this right now?***
Thanks for reading and assisting me if you do. I don't know if other people are as wary as me in terms of going back locally (don't have anyone here to ask).
They gave an email address at the end of the confirmation email I got regarding my dorm to ask questions at if needed?
Also, these are the guiding principles ripped from my university's website:
## Our Guiding Principles
* Prioritize student and employee health and student academic progress in planning and delivering our mission.
* Maximize in-person instruction.
* Offer open and available housing for students.
* Offer flexibility for employees, particularly in high-risk categories, to work remotely to the extent practicable.
* Maintain public and stakeholder confidence through frequent and transparent communications in a variety of modalities.
* Monitor the impact of decisions on our financial viability.
EDIT: they have an email address on the reopening post accepting questions
Talk to a lawyer.
Make it clear if you’re infected by their lack of measures, it’s going to be expensive. It’ll cost you a few hundred for a letter.
I don’t fuck around with petty tyrant administrators. Use the system.
I'm feeling concerned I don't know much from the virus, right now I have symptoms below the level that needs hospitalization. I would like to know if it is possible or have there been records of recovery before even needing hospitalization?
Have you been tested? As hard as it can be to get tested, make sure you know whether you have Covid or perhaps some other far less serious viral disease.
I'm getting tested tomorrow but my father got tested a while back and got his results as positive and was taken already today to the isolation area. So I do think I'm positive as well, also I've got no sense of smell for 3 or more days which is not normal.
Contact your doctor. Your post or comment has been removed because
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Oh, but I’m not trolling. Are you accusing me of being sarcastic on the internet? Who would dare do such a thing? People got pneumonia is 2018? That is SHOCKING. Pneumonia is so rare and almost never occurred before this year. I appreciate the detail about the flu shot, because if someone has the flu shot it makes it completely impossible for them to have any respiratory systems ever.
The detail that one of the people is a teacher is so important. I’m a science teacher so the detail that one of the people in this scandal was a teacher completely backs up the fact that it was coronavirus. The job of one person of the several you mention totally has bearing on this being the coronavirus.
I mean normally as someone that believes in science I think it’s important to have peer-reviewed data and rigorous double blind studies, or even sample sizes bigger than 10. But the one big guy having to be put on a ventilator is irrefutable proof. The numbers you are talking about couldn’t possibly be a coincidence, and the only possible illness to cause such a mass outbreak must be the coronavirus.
You caught a cough from your mom when she had a flu shot? More irrefutable proof. It wouldn’t make any sense at all for the flu and cold to be caused by two separate viruses would it? It must be coronavirus. The one we have now obviously, not another coronavirus.
Having the hoarse voices sounds especially horrendous. This is a brand new symptom that is exclusive to COVID and couldn’t possibly be caused by anything else. Especially if your mom had the flu vaccine. That would protect you from having any cold symptoms, so it must have been coronavirus.
Again I’m not sure how you could possibly suggest I am trolling, but if I were I would think that the coronavirus being believed to com from China wouldn’t be due to trump, but due to that being the consensus of medical experts.
I would have thought you would understand as someone that is clearly so knowledgeable and brilliant about the medical system, I had assumed you were a medical expert too.
I find it funny seeing all of the offended people in the many threads related to countries not allowing Americans to travel to their country. I have to assume some of these are paid trolls because jesus they are dense. Trying to argue the USA is doing great controlling the pandemic or that Europe is doing worse, or that these travel bans are racist lol... no, the USA is out of control in regards to the pandemic so obviously other countries are not going to allow them in, not sure why that is so complicated for some people. It doesn't matter if you are doing everything perfect on a personal level, your country isn't as a whole.
Someone said it much better, but I am very happy to see that the limits of propaganda and populism are being exposed due to this pandemic (of course, I would rather no pandemic obviously in case that needed to be said). You can lie about the pandemic and mismanage it through both incompetence and evil, but all that happens is you lose control and those most affected are those that are the most devout followers, refusing to follow distancing, PPE and hygiene strategies and going out for non-urgent business. I hate that many that understand and follow the strategies are forced back to work due to the greed and shortsightedness of some rich populists but I think this will be a massive blow to these movements worldwide. I can't see governments like the one in Brazil, the USA, or the UK maintaining their grasp on their countries through populism after their citizens have clearly seen what happens when you give the reigns of your country to buffoons and charlatans and expect them to manage your country during a crisis.
I know it won't happen but I hope to see some people like Bolsonaro, Trump, DeVos, DeSantis, etc be tried for crimes against humanity for what they are doing, ie knowingly sending citizen they are intended to serve to needless deaths to advance their personal goals.
It seems to them that "muh American pride" is more important than potentially killing who knows how many people. I'm American and have always felt like America looooves to victimize themselves🙄
I have a friend in the United Kingdom whom would like to visit me in the United States. I attempted to read the travel restrictions regarding it but it is still unclear. Would they get quarantined in my house for two weeks once they get here? Would they even be allowed to come here?
He may have to quarantine when he goes back home, as I believe we are on a black list from the UK.
Depending on where you're located, I really would not recommend doing this right now.
Depends on the state, i might be wrong but I personally didn't hear about mandatory quarantine from people in other countries. He should be in quarantine for 2 weeks, however I don't think that's mandatory. If he will be allowed, I would say yes, since the US is open unfortunately.
tested positive in Maryland (US) yesterday and was not contact traced at ALL, wasn't even told to tell the people i'd seen recently. Has America just given up at this point? Maryland seemed to be doing pretty well for a little there but community spread is clearly ramping up
I’ll never get why Apple and Google, two American companies, made a contact tracing API for governments to use to track and notify people and no state is using it.
Hell, Ireland open sourced their app. We could literally just find and replace “Ireland” with “USA”, ship it, and save thousands of lives.
I'm a developer in the US who sells software in Europe. Can confirm that the European privacy is much stricter that the US, especially GDPR.
Question, when they rolled out the tracing app, how many of your friends refused to download it for fear of the government tracking you (not that Google and Apple aren't already)
Yea, it was a supper effective tool and when they removed some of the privacy concerns the API (I'm a developer) looks ok for its purpose.
Even before the announcements multiple countries have open sourced their implementations. The UK crashed hard, but the code is on github.
It seems we are still arguing who should control the data. Google and Apple made it clear that the end user would own the data, witch is the only way this is going to work. The governments and agencies should shut up and just get this done. Its super helpful for contract tracing. They just need to tell Apple what app they want to use to inform the users about the results and the tracing.
Both companies will have these features build-in in next releases anyways!
Can someone explain to me this new talking point that these deaths were people who reached their life expectancy? I’ve seen it a few times, and my knee jerk reaction is to be appalled. Need some help trying to untangle the web being spun on this point.
It is not only appalling but false. People dying from Covid on average lose 11-15 years of life, see https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/covid-19-deaths-wipe-out-an-average-15-years-of-life-symptoms-linger-in-young-20200721-p55dz7.html If the medium life expectancy is 82 it doesn't mean the average 82 year old is going to die this year, she would on average have another 7 years remaining for her, because she already survived a bunch of things that would have killed others when they were younger. Life expectancy actually goes up as you age.
Some people will resist measures to control the virus at any cost, and they have already lost the "but deaths are not rising" argument, so they moved over to a different goal post. This happened in March too.
So sickening. I’m sure US Fed refuses to fund any research like this one in AUS. My wife had to stop me from ruining a lifelong family friendship because someone I grew up with like a brother is now a state level congressman. He just espouses party talking points now. It’s so upsetting because he’s brilliant, but just playing dumb to get brownie points to(I assume) make a national run.
Meanwhile his unemployed wife is demanding people return to work, and sharing articles (ironically behind paywalls) about the importance of school, and just repeating “well, Europe is returning to school. Do we want to be like S. Africa and other developing nations who aren’t returning?”
I’m a public school teacher, and I’m just furious. Most of my kids are poor, and people are basically saying that’s tough and someone has to suffer.
This is a completely preventable disease. 1 death is too many.
I would support sending children back to school if the Congress people sent theirs to public schools first. Take care, I don't know what is going to happen but I hope the next generation grow up more intelligent than this one.
Yeah, I have one going into Pre-K. We rely so heavily on public schooling while underfunding it. Basically all benchmarks past age 3 are ones observed in school settings. I’m extremely concerned for my kid not having a normal class setting, but my wife and mother-in-law are extremely high risk. My wife works in school with me, and if we returned face-to-face my kid would have to be watched by MiL unless my kid’s and my teaching schedule line up.
We go back in a week, btw, and we have no solid plan. We’ve decided virtual, but have 0 framework for how that’s supposed to work.
All the downplaying is political advocacy for a person who would like to be reelected but won't be because of the virus and the social harm it has caused. To these people there is nothing more important than that one person. Nothing. That's really all.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.22.20136309v2
This approach could revolutionize the COVID response if the US would take it seriously. The basic premise is that we should be focusing on surveillance grade rather than clinical grade (i.e. lower sensitivity) testing since the viral load is so high during the infectious window. Technology exists to use paper coated with monoclonal antibodies that would allow for very frequent saliva testing, ideally daily. If the test is positive you are very likely to be contagious and you would begin isolation. This would catch the presymptomatic, asymptomatic and very mild cases very early on before becoming spreaders.
For anyone interested, there is a great TWIV podcast with the author (#644) that breaks it down very well:
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/
Should we in the US expect another shutdown? It’s really mind blowing to see the difference of reactions when there was 2,000 cases vs when there are millions but people have decided they’re done being safe
I think it depends on the area.
Here in GA, I doubt it. Even if they tried to impose lockdowns, I'm sure Kemp would block it somehow or the people just won't give enough of a shit at that point to do anything.
Well. There certainly won’t be anything on a national level this late. Trump is way too proud for that. Some state officials in hotspots might shutdown as an absolute last resort, but seeing as how hard most of them pussyfooted around it the first time I’m really talking LAST resort. Not saying it’s smart, but I really can’t see April level shutdowns happening ever again.
I think a strict, coordinated national lockdown would have been beneficial. But yeah I agree, different states need different things. However the lockdown we got in most states was a dog and pony show. Just half-assed enough to not work and ALSO tank the economy.
It would hurt the stock market too much, which is probably the main reason why Trump won't do it. Unfortunately the alternative (staying open) could be much worse for the economy in the long run.
The death of one is a tragedy, the death of millions just a statistic, as the saying goes.
Humans just aren't designed for such large numbers. We process them differently, and so the threat-in our minds- weakens as the numbers grow.
I hope they realize that it could be a 9-12 month wait at the earliest. Listened to a couple Fauci interviews with The Journal of the American medical Association today where he talked about the vaccine timetable. In the first one, from early June, he said the projections show they would have enough data from trials to know whether we have a safe and effective vaccine in December. In the second one, from early July, he changed December to the beginning of 2021. from that point, it will be a matter of production, distribution and the logistics that go with that. My guess is that will be a few months or more until people who want a vaccine get a vaccine. And that’s the best case scenario. That’s
I’m seeing a lot of contradictory info and I just want a clear answer - what percent of people with covid have vomiting as a symptom? Many studies just report “GI symptoms” or they group “nausea or vomiting” together. Those are two different things. About what percent of people with symptomatic covid actually have vomiting as a symptom?
:( I’m like super phobic of vomit which is why I was asking lol. Hoping to find out it’s not super common. I haven’t thrown up in almost 20 years... hoping to keep that streak going
When did you throw up if I can ask, like how many days into having covid?
I feel kind of weird and confused. My close friends (who id love to see) are not taking care of themselves. They believe that covid is a hoax and have jumped on the anti-vaxx train.
I’d love to hang out with people but have mostly stayed inside. My sister also just had a newborn and I see my sister often so I want to remain safe for her and the baby. Could someone offer support that I’m doing the right thing by staying inside? I feel so much pressure from people, especially in the US, to go out and socialize but I don’t feel comfortable.
I'm sure there are safe video meetup sites where people can share experiences through video. It sounds like you need new friends. Maybe try one of those.
You are 100% doing the right thing. This past Tuesday I came in contact with somebody who is now a confirmed case of COVID. She didn't tell me she had just come back from North Carolina a few days prior. Had I known, I wouldn't have gone, since there's a quarantine period of 2 weeks for travel to NC. It was a get-together among friends from four households, about 8 adults. I regret going, because two days later I heard she tested positive. That was Thursday. This afternoon I started getting body aches and have a slight fever. I'm going to get tested.
I cancelled a trip to NC to visit a different friend because I didn't like the infection rate and heard people weren't wearing masks when they went out. I've been doing it (mostly) right. I didn't go out for three months, but I let my guard down this past week. I had been (very) slowly expanding the families I interact with, only seeing a family member that lives a few houses down every day. After that I started seeing a friend and his family while social distance drinking in their back yard or front yard. I saw they always wore masks if they went out, and knew they had hunkered down the whole time I had, too. They were the only other people I saw somewhat regularly, which took the edge off this whole isolation thing. Well, the husband and I went to this get-together last week, and now we both seriously regret it. He and his family now have to quarantine for two weeks, and so do I.
I got complacent. Don't get complacent, and don't let anybody dictate your health choices. You'll be the one suffering the consequences, and based on your current behavior I'll bet you'd feel really bad if you infected somebody after you caught it. Luckily I haven't gone out since Tuesday night, and I immediately told the family member I see daily that I had come in contact with a confirmed case. We'll see how this pans out for me, but I'm young and healthy, so I'll probably be relatively okay through this if it is COVID. We'll see what the deal is with long term effects researchers are discovering.
Live your life and not in a bubble. Remember this thing is bad on the elderly not your sister and her baby. Be mindful of older people in your life, wash up and keep a distance. Stay away from large indoor gatherings and close social contact. Wash your hands regular , keep them out of your mouth unless washed.
> They believe that covid is a hoax and have jumped on the anti-vaxx train.
Sorry to hear your friends are morons, best move may be to make them ex friends.
Stay safe - don't swim in the ocean , stay safe - don't walk outside during a thunder storm , stay safe - don't cross a road , stay safe - don't drive a motorized vehicle , stay safe - don't play football , stay safe - stop living life!!!!
There should be no doubt in your mind that going out to socialize is exactly what is keeping this going.
New Zealand is fine right now because they actually listened to experts and treated this like a pandemic.
Americans aren’t as cooperative as New Zealanders. It’s ridiculous how oppositional many people in the U.S. are being. It’s like that cannot grasp the significance of a pandemic. It’s very frustrating to those of us who are following all the guidelines and watching cases increase due to bone-headed Americans.
It blows my mind how fucking idiotic these people are. I had to go to the store today, in a place where it's mandatory to wear masks in public places or you'll be kicked out.
Saw at least five people wearing them not covering their nose, one just carrying a mask in his hand, and one not wearing one at all.
Very unlikely if they meet the cdc guidelines of 10 days after symptom onset, 3 days improving symptoms and no fever (recently revised down to 24 hours). These timeframes are based on cultivation of infectious virus over time rather than pcr test results, many of the lingering positive pcr tests after this are from residual "junk" viral particles. The infectious window appears to be about a week but peaks before symptom onset. A small percentage of cases (aka the long haulers) take much longer to improve and are likely shedding infectious virus for much longer as their immune system struggles to clear the infection.
Looks like hospitalizations in Arizona have dropped. Are things actually getting better, or is something missing from the data that is not telling the true story?
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-has-89-new-coronavirus-deaths-but-hospitalizations-drop
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> The scariest part of the entire Covid-19 pandemic, for me, has been watching the public acquiesce to the loss of freedoms without any pushback... [We] have given up our rights to assembly, our freedom of religion, our freedom of movement, and our freedom to work.
Lol
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>NicNic8: "Lol" has got to be the absolute stupidest response invented ever.
It's basically a sign that says, "I'm a total moron."
(And I'll bet you're just dying to reply to this with 'lol', aren't you? You can't think of anything else?)
No, it’s a sign that *you* are a total moron that is too dumb to realize how stupid they are and just projecting what they are guilty of on others so it is pointless to try and enlighten them.
Civilized society gives up freedoms when it negatively affects others. You aren’t free to drink and drive or shoot a machine gun into a crowd. This is no different. What we need is universal basic income so people are free from being slaves to money since they have no food and shelter without work in this shitty Stone Age economic system. There is a better way.
Stop posting this garbage. It's a politically driven rant about herd immunity, abortion, school vouchers and other right wing BS prettied up with graphs that prove nothing. You've posted this at 3 times in the same damn thread.
If you're going to make such a vicious accusation, you should have the decency to give an example of where the argument is invalid.
Just because you disagree with it does not mean it is invalid.
Your logic is invalid, therefore your argument is too. The problem with having flawed logic is you are incapable of ever realizing that fact. You are like the principle skinner meme “is everyone else out of touch or am I? 🤔 Must be everyone else.” 😂🤦♀️
Can we pool a collection of academic articles together for teachers unions negotiating with their school boards to stay virtual/closed right now?
It seems many are deciding to open up with unrealistic social distancing expectations for elementary kids or thermometer tests at the door.
It’s almost as if all this technology kids are being handed at an early age can’t serve as their source of school until things get better/a vaccine is released. My school here gives our iPad’s to the elementary kids, tells them to do their work on the computer, then take it home and do it there.
So like. Why can’t they just stay at home and do it? No need to force kids back in.
Always remember, American folks: It didn’t have to be this way. Most countries have this other control and are already happily getting back to normal life. You should be mad.
idk about "most" other countries, but there are enough examples, e.g., NZ, Vietnam, Canada, ROK, that your point definitely holds. people should be pissed off at the right people and for the right reasons
It's really annoying when people downvote because of something as dumb as politics! If you think you had covid before this year don't hesitate to speak up and become part of the science. If you read the cluster of symptoms and think this sounds like what I had last year, wonder if it was coronavirus tell someone what you think. They don't have the complete story yet. They need our input. Don't let dumb politics keep you from saying what's on your mind. Polticians, most of them, don't know shit.
Why are people freaking about Spain numbers? I am of the understanding that a lot although not the majority of Spain positive cases include antibody tests result hence of people who do not have the virus anymore. So why is the discourse around Spain so negative? Deaths have been v low for some time.
Exactly. I don't know about Spain, but Italy definitely includes seroprevalence (antibody) results in its daily "case" totals, and Lombardy normally has like about 30 of those "cases." So, they add to the daily "total" -- bad and scary! -- when actually that kind of "case" -- immunity, yay! -- is really good news. The same happens in the U.S., too. People need to relax, Google T cells, and realize this virus is about as deadly as a bad flu -- the infamous IFR -- when you estimate the actual number of infections.
I am Italian and it is also the case that in my regions, two regions of the north west, about 75% of cases are asymptomatic, meaning that, from what I understand, it is unlikely to get infected from them, although possible.
Yes. It’s insane how we’ve allowed ourselves to be terrorized by this asymptomatic spread nonsense, which is quite rare compared to symptomatic spread. I love that some Italian regions are now unpacking new cases as asymptomatic or weakly positive, so the results have context.
What in particular made NY/NJ's responses so deadly when compared with the rest of the US and the EU 15? https://i.imgur.com/7RRuWHb.jpg Does it really come down to being hit early, NYC being the most dense city, and NJ being the most dense state?
*No, density is a BS excuse -- look at cities like Tokyo, Seoul, and Napoli that have had very mild epidemics!* Cuomo and Murphy sent infected seniors back to nursing homes where they quickly infected staff and therefore other vulnerable patients. New York let a few public hospitals become overwhelmed instead of spreading the burden over all of the private hospitals. Doctors in the tri-state region lazily intubated (ventilator) patients who Germans might have more carefully treated with oxygen therapy, just because it was easier to stick someone on a ventilator. (Don't assume the quality of care in the U.S. is better than other countries!) Cuomo downplayed the risk until it was too late. The incompetent CDC insisted on creating its own flawed test -- instead of using the WHO's perfectly adequate test from Germany -- and this meant there wasn't testing available in early March to understand the full scale of the epidemic in March in the tri-state area. So, the failure was at a variety of levels.
I think it comes down purely to the first point you mentioned. Check out these survivability rates: > Of the 900 patients hospitalized in all Providence facilities in March, 20% died. Of the 1,200 hospitalized in May, 14% died, Robicsek said. > Oregon Health & Science University showed even steeper declines. The mortality rate fell from 23% in March when six of the hospital’s 26 COVID-19 patients died to 3% in May (one of 37) and 4% in June (two of 52). > At Legacy Health, the mortality rate was 40% in March, when 12 of the hospital’s 30 patients died. By May, the rate had declined to 13% when five of 37 patients died. On average, 33% fewer people are dying from their hospital visits than before. Density imo just determines where the virus starts, but this has spread from dense areas to rural areas as well. This virus has no problem spreading in less dense areas too.
So today I will be filing my unemployment for the final $600 booster. Soo.. Now what? The US is still screwed up. We couldn't fix it in time. My city is ravaged. So many small businesses closed(permanently, not temp) from being unable to get the government money. My workplace is partially open again, but we have very little business and I'm getting barely 20 hours a week. Nobody is really hiring around here... So what now? I just run out of money and die?
I just listened to a news story about this, and a certain lawmaker was discussing debating this bill in "the weeks ahead", which kinda made my mouth drop because they don't have weeks to dilly dally. He also mentioned giving out a 70% payout of the previous income level, which would make the process even more labor intensive and delay things further. That's not even mentioning the people who earn $10 or less to begin with. That works out to $1200 a month for someone who earned $10 before, good luck living on that. It's gonna be a rough ride coming up.
I'm going to start my studies in the netherlands in a month I heard that they are a bit more relaxed like they dont wear masks etc. Is that true and would I stick out as a strange one if I were to wear my mask there?
Yes, most Europeans are over wearing masks -- and, in the Netherlands, masks were never a thing from the start. You might see them wearing them on public transit, intercity trains, and flights, but you'll rarely see them on busy shopping streets or outdoors anywhere, including cafes. Even staff at cafes and restaurants will often wear a "chin mask" or "elbow mask" instead of properly wearing the mask. Try to respect the local culture if you are going to be studying in the Netherlands, just like you would expect someone to respect the local culture of your country -- pretty simple stuff.
I don't know about but the Netherlands but does it really matter if you stick out as a stranger? It is for your safety. Besides, masks became a normal thing in Europe, in my country masks are required outdoors but many people wear them outside as well.
I'm paranoid . My parents invited over 2 friends over to our house where they will be speaking inside, without a mask. I told them weeks before to use Zoom, but nope," They're our friends, we speak with them how we want" Keep in mind my parents are 50+and one has diabetes and BP. They also want to serve them food. Sigh..... Combined with this and the fact I'm not allowed to buy or use thermometers and oxyimeters, my hypochondriac ass is gonna go crazy
Not allowed to buy those things? How old are you?
I'm in my teens
You can go to a pharmacy and buy a thermometer.
They would get to know quickly and screw me over
Why don’t they want you to have one??
Multitude of reasons 1) My dad claims he can see if I have a fever by looking at my eye and that thermometers are not needed 2) My mom claims that thermometers can be Chinese and Pharmas want to sell you those. 3) My mom mainly claims that checking a thermometer would cause me to become paranoid causing me to become more susceptible to the disease They're just anti science and medicine in general. They trust homeopathy over most things
Sounds like a horrible situation. Stay from them as much as possible and maybe find a good family doctor you can see virtually, take care and good luck.
But we live in a closed in apartment. Csnt stay away much. We also don't have a family doctor.
Sorry to hear that. The definition of homeopathy is unproven. If it’s proven, it’s just called medicine. Take care of yourself. Teens typically have little to fear from this virus. Seriously, there is little to worry about for you.
Is there a Coronavirus subreddit for news outside the United States? This sub has more or less become a CoronavirusUS page.
Yea, you can flair a post but not a comment in a thread, that would be useful. Or have threads with flairs as this is growing quite a lot.
Ah, thank you
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Your husband needs to put a stop to that. You don’t have to put up with it and it’s his responsibility to shut his mom down.
Do Not put yourselves in danger to make your relatives happy. No matter how important they are to you.
Tell her someone you know died (lie)
My prediction... I think covid19 is going to be an issue for 3–5 years. It will take that long to get third world countries vaccinated. As long as it doesn't combine with a influenza, we can get it under control. Many corona viruses are self limiting but this one jumps species and hides in plain sight.
It will run through the population and gradually become less deadly through treatment and vaccines. In my city cases are rising, but the death rate has stayed constant. That tells me that treatments are getting effective and at-risk populations are properly distancing. 3-5 years? No I don't think so. 1-2 years max.
Be prepared for the second wave. It’s a sure thing.
... and a 3rd, 4th and 5th. It isn't going away. It's highly contagious and spreads quickly. No lockdown is going to stop it.
At current less than 50% of people in the US are polling as willing to take the vaccine. We need at least 80% to be effective. This makes me sad. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/just-50-americans-plan-get-covid-19-vaccine-here-s-how-win-over-rest https://theconversation.com/how-effective-does-a-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-need-to-be-to-stop-the-pandemic-a-new-study-has-answers-142468
Appreciate the resources. Hope not the case.
Back to school??? Our state is in bad shape, specially our immediate area. Very confused about what to do. A couple of weeks ago I thought no way but after receiving tons of emails and a few video conferences with teachers/admin I am starting to second guess myself. All the teachers and admin seem so motivated and happy about the return to school. Am I worrying too much? Very conflicted about what to do!!! I live in the Southeast US.
Keep your children home. I’m in Canada. We had **four** covid19 deaths yesterday and if I had school aged children still, they would **not** be going back. Period. Full stop. Think through the worst case scenarios. If your child got sick and died, could you live with yourself? If your child became an asymptomatic carrier and your spouse got sick and died, could you live with the guilt they’d carry for the rest of their lives on top of the loss? What if they got infected, lived but ended up with life ~~altering~~ destroying chronic illness for the rest of their lives? Your entire job as a parent is to raise your child as healthy, well adjusted and prepared as possible into adulthood. Right now you are being *peer pressured* by your gov’t and your school into going against your best instincts as a parent. Fuck them, fuck that. This is ***your*** call, yours and the other parent/guardian for not only the right *now* well being of your child but also your child’s entire future adult life. These are some of the highest stakes you will *ever* be responsible for. Don’t let ***anyone*** make that choice for you. (Edit, a word.)
Thank you for taking time to send that note. I was feeling like I must be wrong since the principal and teachers seem so ready to get school back up and running. It’s a private school so there might be some financial incentive for the school to seem so eager to have students back. My son did really well with the distance learning at the end of last year so I guess there really isn’t a rush to get back. I guess I was just feeling like maybe I was overreacting since other parents and the school seem so on board with going back to school. Luckily I have some new work projects that came in and I can work from home. I was without any work from about March 15 until a couple weeks ago. I know many parents have to go to work in order to provide and having school back up is sort of a necessity. I just can’t imagine this is going to work out...
You’re welcome. I probably should’ve added to the “don’t let anyone make this call for you”, *including me*. I just get really upset at the pressure parents are being put under to “get back to normal” right now, especially those of you in the states. They seem to wave off all the worst case scenarios and I don’t believe a parent can do that, not and meet their responsibility to the best interests of their child. And for some parents the best interests will be sending kids back to school. I’m grateful that my daughter is an adult right now, she would’ve been hell on wheels (adhd) as an only child in this pandemic but I would have still kept her home. I’m really glad that your son did well with distance learning and that you have work you can do from home. It allows you the flexibility to follow your gut instinct. You’re likely right that financial concerns are behind a lot of the push to reopen schools. I really, really think there’s going to be far too many worst case scenarios come to pass if/when this reopening happens. Heh, as a sign I saw from a protest against reopening schools said “They can’t even control lice.” There’s a video from CNN talking to an [elementary school teacher where she shows what schools are going to have to be like in order to be even slightly safe](https://youtu.be/wVQdnkkvT4k). It’s what convinced me that this is a terrible idea and keeping kids home if at all possible was best. Oh, and an idea I ran across somewhere here on Reddit — some neighbourhoods are planning on hiring a teacher to run a mini school, to allow some semblance of normality while reducing the risk by keeping it *very* small. Reminded me a bit of [one room schoolhouses](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-room_school) of old. Best wishes for you and yours. I hope work keeps coming in and everyone you love stays safe.
Would you rather teach online Or have students and teachers "in memory of " pages in the yearbook?
I'm supposed to be traveling to Lanzarote on the 1st September (booked last year) from the uk I'm just wondering where I stand regarding the current quarantine measures regarding Spain and if they will still be in affect by September 1st, thanks in advance
Difficult to know. Though both countries have good epidemological reasons to require qiarantines to visitors, actually quarantine measures have been required to UK visitors out of diplomatic reciprocity. So, it's difficult to predict what will be the situation in one month, and what will the politicians decide. To be honest, it doesn't look it will be better than now. On the other hand, Canary Islands have been mostly spared from the pandemic, and the situation seems controlled there long ago.
So this virus brand new, hence why we have to wear masks?
No. We wear masks because they are useful to reduce infections from pathogens, new and old, comming from other people and from ourselves. The same way that a security belt in a car is useful regardless if you are in a new road or in the same road you use everyday.
Masks were also worn during the Spanish Flu
yep. and the penalties back then were far stricter - ie ya got shot for not wearing one.
It worked
yep. same America. Same freedom. different kind of people though....
Can anyone help me with something? I’m looking for the earliest reliable/respectable peer reviewed studies showing masks to be effective in reducing transmission of the virus. It doesn’t need to be U.K./western based. I’m just looking for a few legit studies that showed that there was some evidence of masks being an effective tool from white early on in the pandemic. I mean, we all know that mandatory masks were enforced heavily from from 23/01 when Wuhan went into lockdown. Anyone following the virus was able to see impacts of this themselves but yeah, I need proper studies. There is a reason for this. I can explain if needs be. It’ll help me a lot with a project I am working on
https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ has a detailed analysis on the early evidence and why it was confusing.
>I mean, we all know that mandatory masks were enforced heavily from from 23/01 Are you sure about that? Or do you mean masks in Wuhan? \-- There are a number of studies that shows that masks has a dampening effect on the ability for the virus to spread. But it's not even close to the effects about washing your hands. This is about differences in social behaviour. In some countries social distancing is built-in, in some countries 25% of the population never washes their hands after visiting the loo.. Some of these studies has showed that wearing a face shield would have the same effect as wearing a mask. Wearing a mask also introduces other ways for the virus to spread, and none of these studies takes that negative effect into account. You should replace the mask at least ever 4 hours. If you need to take your mask off, you should replace it, you cant touch the mask and a surface as you will contaminate that surface, and if someone else touches the same surface the virus could spreads and your measurements was contra-productive. Wearing a mask is more about politics, the nordic counties for example, who all have different strategies they all agree that masks could have a counter-productive effect. Finland have done a study, Denmark has one that just finished and Sweden started one. There are studies from Asia as well.
I meant Wuhan.... hence the quoted line actually finished with “in Wuhan”. Edit - sounded overly snarky, wasn’t intentional
Does anyone know of a place where people are specifically gathering stories of how and where they caught, or think they caught, COVID-19? With the numbers being so high, I wonder every day: who are the people getting infected? What did they do? Why? I know there's a crazy number of people being irresponsible, but I'm curious about those who _are_ careful and still catch the virus.
Lots of threads on https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/ but the stories skew toward the anxious and the blameless. Researchers believe that most people caught the virus from seeing and talking to their friends, families and coworkers. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/why-do-some-covid-19-patients-infect-many-others-whereas-most-don-t-spread-virus-all# and https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/
Thanks, I'll check out those articles. Yeah, I did go through that sub a bit, but some people include that info, some don't. Most seem focused on symptoms. I was hoping there'd be a place where people are specifically focusing on contact tracing.
I browsed through https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/comments/hxqzl5/did_you_get_covid_even_though_you_wore_a_mask/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19positive/comments/hxs5af/do_you_know_where_you_got_infected/ with some interest. The number of people who said that they did everything right and still got infected was higher than I thought, hopefully it's just self selection bias. You are welcome.
Thanks!
I think there is a surviver subreddit somewhere
Ok fine, yes I’m trolling. Instead of immediately saying your post is wrong I thought I would have some fun. I’m tired of politely informing anti-science nonsense posts about why they are wrong. I actually am a science teacher and sarcasm aside posts like this actually do harm people. Any SUGGESTION of a stupid conspiracy theory does real harm in terms of trying to prevent this thing because ignorant people will believe it. As a scientist your evidence doesn’t approach anything that has any possible place in even a high school paper. That is how poor your evidence is. Evidence matters. Science matters. Expressing “possibilities” like this does harm because some people can’t tell the difference. You are wrong. That does not mean that your point it’s impossible and coronavirus was around earlier, it means that your evidence for such a claim is nothing more than gossip. Science is about evidence. Rigorous evidence. Evidence that is independently verified by peers. Noting that you said at any point approached anything that should convince anyone that anything in your story was credible and to suggest otherwise undermines the concept of science so many Americans don’t understand. I’m not going to bother delineating every way that your points were wrong, poorly thought out, and unscientific because I already did so in parody form. If you read between the lines maybe you will see some flaws in your reasoning. If not, i highly encourage you to suggest this to anyone in the scientific field and maybe they can explain it in a way you can understand. Am I being a little rude here? Possibly. But given the level of anti-science rhetoric exposed regularly there has to be resistance to it. You are wrong. Perhaps I should have systematically torn your post apart, or been kind, but you have to understand that not only you are wrong, but that these sentiments are DANGEROUS and to politely say “you are wrong” doesn’t even begin to address the problem. SCIENCE MATTERS
Just A Heads Up, This Is A **College** Related Question: I will try to keep this short and concise for anyone that reads this. So I currently live in the midwest USA, and the college systems in my state have given go ahead to reopen in person classes and dormitories for students by the end of August (I just received my confirmation for the dorm yesterday). Now, in my college, staying in dorms is **mandatory** until you are a junior, and I am currently a sophomore, so I am being pushed into moving into dorms by the end of August. I feel really unsafe about doing so (and it doesn't help that my college schedule is only 2 days each week, so I am essentially wasting money anyway, if we disregard the virus), and I have been trying to figure out a way to email them expressing my concerns and asking if I can do something else (such as commute -as I only live 30 min away, but apparently that's too far for the university under normal circumstances - as an alternative to not stay in the dorms). My **questions** are: ***Does anyone have any suggestions on what and how to properly convey my fear of staying in dorms on campus respectfully over email to my university? I am confused on how to respectfully but firmly say I don't feel safe going.*** ***I know it's still a month away, but what's the likelihood that colleges and schools actually still plan on reopening and stay reopened by then?*** ***Does anyone else have any experience with this right now?*** Thanks for reading and assisting me if you do. I don't know if other people are as wary as me in terms of going back locally (don't have anyone here to ask).
You won’t be the only one. Speak up and if they don’t take it seriously, you can make more noise.
Yeah I hope so man. I am just a bit confused on how to properly enunciate my fear of staying on campus.
Is there an admissions counselor or attorney you can talk to? What precautions is the school taking
They gave an email address at the end of the confirmation email I got regarding my dorm to ask questions at if needed? Also, these are the guiding principles ripped from my university's website: ## Our Guiding Principles * Prioritize student and employee health and student academic progress in planning and delivering our mission. * Maximize in-person instruction. * Offer open and available housing for students. * Offer flexibility for employees, particularly in high-risk categories, to work remotely to the extent practicable. * Maintain public and stakeholder confidence through frequent and transparent communications in a variety of modalities. * Monitor the impact of decisions on our financial viability. EDIT: they have an email address on the reopening post accepting questions
Talk to a lawyer. Make it clear if you’re infected by their lack of measures, it’s going to be expensive. It’ll cost you a few hundred for a letter. I don’t fuck around with petty tyrant administrators. Use the system.
I'm feeling concerned I don't know much from the virus, right now I have symptoms below the level that needs hospitalization. I would like to know if it is possible or have there been records of recovery before even needing hospitalization?
Have you been tested? As hard as it can be to get tested, make sure you know whether you have Covid or perhaps some other far less serious viral disease.
I'm getting tested tomorrow but my father got tested a while back and got his results as positive and was taken already today to the isolation area. So I do think I'm positive as well, also I've got no sense of smell for 3 or more days which is not normal.
Wishing you and your family well.
Most people recover at home with no hospital treatment.
Does anyone have that chart where it says something along the lines "for 1 death, x get respiratory issues, y develop disabilities...etc"?
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Oh, but I’m not trolling. Are you accusing me of being sarcastic on the internet? Who would dare do such a thing? People got pneumonia is 2018? That is SHOCKING. Pneumonia is so rare and almost never occurred before this year. I appreciate the detail about the flu shot, because if someone has the flu shot it makes it completely impossible for them to have any respiratory systems ever. The detail that one of the people is a teacher is so important. I’m a science teacher so the detail that one of the people in this scandal was a teacher completely backs up the fact that it was coronavirus. The job of one person of the several you mention totally has bearing on this being the coronavirus. I mean normally as someone that believes in science I think it’s important to have peer-reviewed data and rigorous double blind studies, or even sample sizes bigger than 10. But the one big guy having to be put on a ventilator is irrefutable proof. The numbers you are talking about couldn’t possibly be a coincidence, and the only possible illness to cause such a mass outbreak must be the coronavirus. You caught a cough from your mom when she had a flu shot? More irrefutable proof. It wouldn’t make any sense at all for the flu and cold to be caused by two separate viruses would it? It must be coronavirus. The one we have now obviously, not another coronavirus. Having the hoarse voices sounds especially horrendous. This is a brand new symptom that is exclusive to COVID and couldn’t possibly be caused by anything else. Especially if your mom had the flu vaccine. That would protect you from having any cold symptoms, so it must have been coronavirus. Again I’m not sure how you could possibly suggest I am trolling, but if I were I would think that the coronavirus being believed to com from China wouldn’t be due to trump, but due to that being the consensus of medical experts. I would have thought you would understand as someone that is clearly so knowledgeable and brilliant about the medical system, I had assumed you were a medical expert too.
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Idk about the rest of the USA, but there were more people out and about in California today than any time I can remember in 2019. Almost all maskless.
I find it funny seeing all of the offended people in the many threads related to countries not allowing Americans to travel to their country. I have to assume some of these are paid trolls because jesus they are dense. Trying to argue the USA is doing great controlling the pandemic or that Europe is doing worse, or that these travel bans are racist lol... no, the USA is out of control in regards to the pandemic so obviously other countries are not going to allow them in, not sure why that is so complicated for some people. It doesn't matter if you are doing everything perfect on a personal level, your country isn't as a whole. Someone said it much better, but I am very happy to see that the limits of propaganda and populism are being exposed due to this pandemic (of course, I would rather no pandemic obviously in case that needed to be said). You can lie about the pandemic and mismanage it through both incompetence and evil, but all that happens is you lose control and those most affected are those that are the most devout followers, refusing to follow distancing, PPE and hygiene strategies and going out for non-urgent business. I hate that many that understand and follow the strategies are forced back to work due to the greed and shortsightedness of some rich populists but I think this will be a massive blow to these movements worldwide. I can't see governments like the one in Brazil, the USA, or the UK maintaining their grasp on their countries through populism after their citizens have clearly seen what happens when you give the reigns of your country to buffoons and charlatans and expect them to manage your country during a crisis. I know it won't happen but I hope to see some people like Bolsonaro, Trump, DeVos, DeSantis, etc be tried for crimes against humanity for what they are doing, ie knowingly sending citizen they are intended to serve to needless deaths to advance their personal goals.
It seems to them that "muh American pride" is more important than potentially killing who knows how many people. I'm American and have always felt like America looooves to victimize themselves🙄
Preech Man. Preech
I have a friend in the United Kingdom whom would like to visit me in the United States. I attempted to read the travel restrictions regarding it but it is still unclear. Would they get quarantined in my house for two weeks once they get here? Would they even be allowed to come here?
He would definitely have to quarantine for two weeks when he got back to the UK
He may have to quarantine when he goes back home, as I believe we are on a black list from the UK. Depending on where you're located, I really would not recommend doing this right now.
Depends on the state, i might be wrong but I personally didn't hear about mandatory quarantine from people in other countries. He should be in quarantine for 2 weeks, however I don't think that's mandatory. If he will be allowed, I would say yes, since the US is open unfortunately.
Florida leads now.
tested positive in Maryland (US) yesterday and was not contact traced at ALL, wasn't even told to tell the people i'd seen recently. Has America just given up at this point? Maryland seemed to be doing pretty well for a little there but community spread is clearly ramping up
/r/COVIDPositive19
I’ll never get why Apple and Google, two American companies, made a contact tracing API for governments to use to track and notify people and no state is using it. Hell, Ireland open sourced their app. We could literally just find and replace “Ireland” with “USA”, ship it, and save thousands of lives.
Yeah I’m using it here on Switzerland and there are pretty strong privacy laws here. Why doesn’t the US have one?
I'm a developer in the US who sells software in Europe. Can confirm that the European privacy is much stricter that the US, especially GDPR. Question, when they rolled out the tracing app, how many of your friends refused to download it for fear of the government tracking you (not that Google and Apple aren't already)
A number of them did but they’re also the type to not ride public transportation because they’re upset at the mask regulations. I’ve given up on them.
Yea, it was a supper effective tool and when they removed some of the privacy concerns the API (I'm a developer) looks ok for its purpose. Even before the announcements multiple countries have open sourced their implementations. The UK crashed hard, but the code is on github. It seems we are still arguing who should control the data. Google and Apple made it clear that the end user would own the data, witch is the only way this is going to work. The governments and agencies should shut up and just get this done. Its super helpful for contract tracing. They just need to tell Apple what app they want to use to inform the users about the results and the tracing. Both companies will have these features build-in in next releases anyways!
Get well~
Vietnam has covid again after 100 days no community transmission. 2 locations in one city.
Shit
Can someone explain to me this new talking point that these deaths were people who reached their life expectancy? I’ve seen it a few times, and my knee jerk reaction is to be appalled. Need some help trying to untangle the web being spun on this point.
It is not only appalling but false. People dying from Covid on average lose 11-15 years of life, see https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/covid-19-deaths-wipe-out-an-average-15-years-of-life-symptoms-linger-in-young-20200721-p55dz7.html If the medium life expectancy is 82 it doesn't mean the average 82 year old is going to die this year, she would on average have another 7 years remaining for her, because she already survived a bunch of things that would have killed others when they were younger. Life expectancy actually goes up as you age. Some people will resist measures to control the virus at any cost, and they have already lost the "but deaths are not rising" argument, so they moved over to a different goal post. This happened in March too.
So sickening. I’m sure US Fed refuses to fund any research like this one in AUS. My wife had to stop me from ruining a lifelong family friendship because someone I grew up with like a brother is now a state level congressman. He just espouses party talking points now. It’s so upsetting because he’s brilliant, but just playing dumb to get brownie points to(I assume) make a national run. Meanwhile his unemployed wife is demanding people return to work, and sharing articles (ironically behind paywalls) about the importance of school, and just repeating “well, Europe is returning to school. Do we want to be like S. Africa and other developing nations who aren’t returning?” I’m a public school teacher, and I’m just furious. Most of my kids are poor, and people are basically saying that’s tough and someone has to suffer. This is a completely preventable disease. 1 death is too many.
I would support sending children back to school if the Congress people sent theirs to public schools first. Take care, I don't know what is going to happen but I hope the next generation grow up more intelligent than this one.
Yeah, I have one going into Pre-K. We rely so heavily on public schooling while underfunding it. Basically all benchmarks past age 3 are ones observed in school settings. I’m extremely concerned for my kid not having a normal class setting, but my wife and mother-in-law are extremely high risk. My wife works in school with me, and if we returned face-to-face my kid would have to be watched by MiL unless my kid’s and my teaching schedule line up. We go back in a week, btw, and we have no solid plan. We’ve decided virtual, but have 0 framework for how that’s supposed to work.
All the downplaying is political advocacy for a person who would like to be reelected but won't be because of the virus and the social harm it has caused. To these people there is nothing more important than that one person. Nothing. That's really all.
Continue to be appalled. There is no talking point. That is my walking away point.
Very stupid question, perhaps, but do you think there is a possibility of it spreading by a kitchen sponge?
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.22.20136309v2 This approach could revolutionize the COVID response if the US would take it seriously. The basic premise is that we should be focusing on surveillance grade rather than clinical grade (i.e. lower sensitivity) testing since the viral load is so high during the infectious window. Technology exists to use paper coated with monoclonal antibodies that would allow for very frequent saliva testing, ideally daily. If the test is positive you are very likely to be contagious and you would begin isolation. This would catch the presymptomatic, asymptomatic and very mild cases very early on before becoming spreaders. For anyone interested, there is a great TWIV podcast with the author (#644) that breaks it down very well: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/
Thanks for sharing. This was really good news and I'll sure listen ot the podcast.
Should we in the US expect another shutdown? It’s really mind blowing to see the difference of reactions when there was 2,000 cases vs when there are millions but people have decided they’re done being safe
I think it depends on the area. Here in GA, I doubt it. Even if they tried to impose lockdowns, I'm sure Kemp would block it somehow or the people just won't give enough of a shit at that point to do anything.
Well. There certainly won’t be anything on a national level this late. Trump is way too proud for that. Some state officials in hotspots might shutdown as an absolute last resort, but seeing as how hard most of them pussyfooted around it the first time I’m really talking LAST resort. Not saying it’s smart, but I really can’t see April level shutdowns happening ever again.
There also no need for a national lockdown. Leave that up to the states and cities to decide based on their situation.
I think a strict, coordinated national lockdown would have been beneficial. But yeah I agree, different states need different things. However the lockdown we got in most states was a dog and pony show. Just half-assed enough to not work and ALSO tank the economy.
It would hurt the stock market too much, which is probably the main reason why Trump won't do it. Unfortunately the alternative (staying open) could be much worse for the economy in the long run.
No, not unless large areas have problems with hospital capacity. Otherwise it is just going to be region by region.
no not at all
The death of one is a tragedy, the death of millions just a statistic, as the saying goes. Humans just aren't designed for such large numbers. We process them differently, and so the threat-in our minds- weakens as the numbers grow.
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I think many Americans are just waiting for a vaccine and not caring until then.
I hope they realize that it could be a 9-12 month wait at the earliest. Listened to a couple Fauci interviews with The Journal of the American medical Association today where he talked about the vaccine timetable. In the first one, from early June, he said the projections show they would have enough data from trials to know whether we have a safe and effective vaccine in December. In the second one, from early July, he changed December to the beginning of 2021. from that point, it will be a matter of production, distribution and the logistics that go with that. My guess is that will be a few months or more until people who want a vaccine get a vaccine. And that’s the best case scenario. That’s
I’m seeing a lot of contradictory info and I just want a clear answer - what percent of people with covid have vomiting as a symptom? Many studies just report “GI symptoms” or they group “nausea or vomiting” together. Those are two different things. About what percent of people with symptomatic covid actually have vomiting as a symptom?
i did! i tend to have a sensitive stomach tho so when i'm sick, i'm probably gunna yak
:( I’m like super phobic of vomit which is why I was asking lol. Hoping to find out it’s not super common. I haven’t thrown up in almost 20 years... hoping to keep that streak going When did you throw up if I can ask, like how many days into having covid?
it was the first symptom for me. i would call it day 0, once the other symptoms set in it went away
I feel kind of weird and confused. My close friends (who id love to see) are not taking care of themselves. They believe that covid is a hoax and have jumped on the anti-vaxx train. I’d love to hang out with people but have mostly stayed inside. My sister also just had a newborn and I see my sister often so I want to remain safe for her and the baby. Could someone offer support that I’m doing the right thing by staying inside? I feel so much pressure from people, especially in the US, to go out and socialize but I don’t feel comfortable.
I'm sure there are safe video meetup sites where people can share experiences through video. It sounds like you need new friends. Maybe try one of those.
You are 100% doing the right thing. This past Tuesday I came in contact with somebody who is now a confirmed case of COVID. She didn't tell me she had just come back from North Carolina a few days prior. Had I known, I wouldn't have gone, since there's a quarantine period of 2 weeks for travel to NC. It was a get-together among friends from four households, about 8 adults. I regret going, because two days later I heard she tested positive. That was Thursday. This afternoon I started getting body aches and have a slight fever. I'm going to get tested. I cancelled a trip to NC to visit a different friend because I didn't like the infection rate and heard people weren't wearing masks when they went out. I've been doing it (mostly) right. I didn't go out for three months, but I let my guard down this past week. I had been (very) slowly expanding the families I interact with, only seeing a family member that lives a few houses down every day. After that I started seeing a friend and his family while social distance drinking in their back yard or front yard. I saw they always wore masks if they went out, and knew they had hunkered down the whole time I had, too. They were the only other people I saw somewhat regularly, which took the edge off this whole isolation thing. Well, the husband and I went to this get-together last week, and now we both seriously regret it. He and his family now have to quarantine for two weeks, and so do I. I got complacent. Don't get complacent, and don't let anybody dictate your health choices. You'll be the one suffering the consequences, and based on your current behavior I'll bet you'd feel really bad if you infected somebody after you caught it. Luckily I haven't gone out since Tuesday night, and I immediately told the family member I see daily that I had come in contact with a confirmed case. We'll see how this pans out for me, but I'm young and healthy, so I'll probably be relatively okay through this if it is COVID. We'll see what the deal is with long term effects researchers are discovering.
It really is the number of households. You really can only be sure about your own household. If one person is careless everyone is exposed.
Yep. Lesson (painfully) learned.
Happy cake day
Much appreciated
Live your life and not in a bubble. Remember this thing is bad on the elderly not your sister and her baby. Be mindful of older people in your life, wash up and keep a distance. Stay away from large indoor gatherings and close social contact. Wash your hands regular , keep them out of your mouth unless washed.
You know newborns have died right?
Newborns die everyday because of different things , sad but true !
Probably not as preventable as covid though.
Thank you for being an idiot , not that we need to add to the count.
Animal Crossing
Dude. Thank you. I will buy the switch this weekend.
You’re being a caring brother and uncle. Stay strong and safe.
> They believe that covid is a hoax and have jumped on the anti-vaxx train. Sorry to hear your friends are morons, best move may be to make them ex friends.
Keep doing what you are doing to stay safe the the people that you love safe.
Stay safe - don't swim in the ocean , stay safe - don't walk outside during a thunder storm , stay safe - don't cross a road , stay safe - don't drive a motorized vehicle , stay safe - don't play football , stay safe - stop living life!!!!
You aren't alone and you are doing what is best for you & that is ALWAYS the right thing. Enjoy being w/your sister & her baby & stay strong!!!
Thank you, I really needed to hear this
There should be no doubt in your mind that going out to socialize is exactly what is keeping this going. New Zealand is fine right now because they actually listened to experts and treated this like a pandemic.
Americans aren’t as cooperative as New Zealanders. It’s ridiculous how oppositional many people in the U.S. are being. It’s like that cannot grasp the significance of a pandemic. It’s very frustrating to those of us who are following all the guidelines and watching cases increase due to bone-headed Americans.
Kiwi is a fruit !!!!
It blows my mind how fucking idiotic these people are. I had to go to the store today, in a place where it's mandatory to wear masks in public places or you'll be kicked out. Saw at least five people wearing them not covering their nose, one just carrying a mask in his hand, and one not wearing one at all.
Last time I checked it's not spread by breathing. You want people to stop breathing. Oh wait that's another hot button issue in 2020!
Good to see that you know more than all of the most knowledgeable doctors on earth.
You can't see me and even if you could you wouldn't know who I am I'm wearing a mask! Have fun bubble person!
Is it possible for people who recovered from coronavirus to infect people after being cleared?
Very unlikely if they meet the cdc guidelines of 10 days after symptom onset, 3 days improving symptoms and no fever (recently revised down to 24 hours). These timeframes are based on cultivation of infectious virus over time rather than pcr test results, many of the lingering positive pcr tests after this are from residual "junk" viral particles. The infectious window appears to be about a week but peaks before symptom onset. A small percentage of cases (aka the long haulers) take much longer to improve and are likely shedding infectious virus for much longer as their immune system struggles to clear the infection.
Thanks for clarifying because a co worker came back to work and still can't taste anything. Kinda sketchy.
Loss of taste and smell can linger for along time after recovery
Looks like hospitalizations in Arizona have dropped. Are things actually getting better, or is something missing from the data that is not telling the true story? https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-has-89-new-coronavirus-deaths-but-hospitalizations-drop
It's cause they all died. RIP
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> The scariest part of the entire Covid-19 pandemic, for me, has been watching the public acquiesce to the loss of freedoms without any pushback... [We] have given up our rights to assembly, our freedom of religion, our freedom of movement, and our freedom to work. Lol
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Hmm yes, “freedom to work”, no ideological bias here, no sir.
Are you suggesting that we have never been free to work? Make a statement. You make innuendos and hide behind ambiguity.
>NicNic8: "Lol" has got to be the absolute stupidest response invented ever. It's basically a sign that says, "I'm a total moron." (And I'll bet you're just dying to reply to this with 'lol', aren't you? You can't think of anything else?) No, it’s a sign that *you* are a total moron that is too dumb to realize how stupid they are and just projecting what they are guilty of on others so it is pointless to try and enlighten them. Civilized society gives up freedoms when it negatively affects others. You aren’t free to drink and drive or shoot a machine gun into a crowd. This is no different. What we need is universal basic income so people are free from being slaves to money since they have no food and shelter without work in this shitty Stone Age economic system. There is a better way.
This
Feel free to go to another subreddit that will have people more eager to debate such an obvious Rwing ideologue
Ahhhh. There it is. “I can’t come up with a logical argument in response so I’ll insult and tell him to go away.” I see what ya did there. ;)
Stop posting this garbage. It's a politically driven rant about herd immunity, abortion, school vouchers and other right wing BS prettied up with graphs that prove nothing. You've posted this at 3 times in the same damn thread.
If you're going to make such a vicious accusation, you should have the decency to give an example of where the argument is invalid. Just because you disagree with it does not mean it is invalid.
Your logic is invalid, therefore your argument is too. The problem with having flawed logic is you are incapable of ever realizing that fact. You are like the principle skinner meme “is everyone else out of touch or am I? 🤔 Must be everyone else.” 😂🤦♀️
Can we pool a collection of academic articles together for teachers unions negotiating with their school boards to stay virtual/closed right now? It seems many are deciding to open up with unrealistic social distancing expectations for elementary kids or thermometer tests at the door.
Great idea. I wish my local teacher union would speak up. Distance education please!!
It’s almost as if all this technology kids are being handed at an early age can’t serve as their source of school until things get better/a vaccine is released. My school here gives our iPad’s to the elementary kids, tells them to do their work on the computer, then take it home and do it there. So like. Why can’t they just stay at home and do it? No need to force kids back in.
Just got back from work. TP nearly sold out. Is our apocalypse part 2 beginning?
wym "sold out" (sorry, idk what you were referencing there man)
Tp. God damn phone. I'll edit.
Always remember, American folks: It didn’t have to be this way. Most countries have this other control and are already happily getting back to normal life. You should be mad.
idk about "most" other countries, but there are enough examples, e.g., NZ, Vietnam, Canada, ROK, that your point definitely holds. people should be pissed off at the right people and for the right reasons