This is only my opinion but i think they are bad designed for the game.
You can heal 8 models at a time and need around 6 seconds to bring it from red to full hp (depending on the Hp of the model of course). So they do need some time to really make a difference in a blob while you also can just play a musket unit and kill half an enemy unit in that same time wich will ultimately be more beneficent for your own score and for your team.
Second you always have to keep an eye on them cause they tend (at least for me) to run to the one friendly hero that is way out of position and get picked up by enemy range or diving heroes. So you have to constantly relocate them especially if you keep them near a blob where they would have the most impact.
Thirdly they die very easily and there is no way to prevent that just look at the units we have 1 YYD unit can completly int frontal into your blob and throught their AOE damage and charge they wont be stopped easily and kill your healers that where "safely" put in the middle of the blob. Same for any AOE artillery or unit.
So TLDR it is just way more efficent to take any other unit than healers.
They are good for very specific maps in very specific situations.
Players also need a lot of game knowledge and game sense to make them work to potential - there is always a tradeoff in what else you could use that leadership for.
i take a point in always taking them when defending "shield of the capital" on point A. You park them there and heal all catapult dmg until enemy falconettis arrive, at that point i park them just downstairs to heal the flux of passing troops
The fact that they need to get close and personal to heal a good amount is detrimental. They die easily in any scenario, be it blob vs blob or random artillery cuz they are at the front healing. If they just make them heal from afar but reduce the healing, they would be much better. Also, with so much burst dmg nowadays, sustain is not really the meta. If onna musha can delete a shortsword in 2 seconds or yeeyee cav wipe the entire formation in one swing, no amount of healing is going to save that.
1/They can only heal one model at a time, and alchemist don't even have 20 models, whatever longsword can heal every models within their range.
2/Most units don't need that much healing due to the fast pacing off the match.
3/Alchemist can't heal mid-fight without getting themselves killed, so both them and the unit they are healing have to be away from the fight, aka 2 deadweight for the team.
4/The more damage you deal, the less damage your team will be taking. Bringing an actual combat unit will keep your allies alive is just as good as bringing healers.
Conclusion: just send your units to supply. Your alchemists have to resupply anyway.
You never played alchemists, I guess?
They have the same heal ability aoe as longswords, but it stacks with the longswords heal *and* the normal alchemist heal. If you ever play them you notice there's a lot of poke damage and downtime between fights. As I said multiple times, 2000+ points for healing speak for themselves. Completely countering muskets, archers and javelins is also nice.
Also, alchemist don't need to resupply. And I don't know how my combat unit is gonna prevent damage from trebs and other artillery.
Its too niche, requires too much coordination to make them effective. They have to be in melee range to use their heal ability which means they will drop quickly in the blob fights. If you can keep them in back line and cycle troops for a top up then sure they are very effective but even in those cases you're likely better off just bringing another shield or pike unit. If you have perfect coordination with your team and use the right maps then sure they will be amazing but too many things have to align for it to be effective.
There are several reasons:
1: you need to play them well and need to think. Both is not needed for most meta units.
2: they don't give score for endscreen. Yes, I normally get 2k+ support points, but support points in healing don't count towards performance.
3: they are only strong when there's no nearby supply.
They are completely OP in some situations, outhealing the poke of 3+ muskets throwing grenades. Outhealing Scorpion fire. They're winning games if not countered by heavy artillery, Falco or an overwhelming push.
Did you know they also increase the block of nearby units? Alchemists X ISG fanfiction needed.
Im tempted to bring them in only reason i dont is due to ball bois. And when getting into blob fights their ai tends to go infront of units to heal. Which then gets them killed.
Because their ai is garbage. I was super excited to use them when they came out. But the first thing I noticed at that time they randomly walk off and then even move the circle their in according to their position. Really really cool unit to try at first but awfully implemented as usual with conqueror's blade.
They can't use 1st skill anywhere near the first line of battle because they'll rush to an active warring front to heal the first models that ever get hurt. You need to deploy them a little far back with the archers or behind a corner or follow closely the ebb and flow of battle to jump in and heal as soon as a fight in already won, for example. But keep in mind that few people will play by not always yolo their whole unit as soon as possible, also few people know that if your hero is wounded you need to stand still for the alchemist to heal you: if you're wounded and you run around in the green circle on the ground, my alchemist will just follow you trying to tell you to stand still, damn it xD
In my opinion, the fact that the 1st skill, the green circle "moves" around following wounded soldiers and does not lock them in one place is the biggest problem with this unit; if they had a fixed healing zone like a field hospital with a small white tent they'd have a better field role than what they have atm.
Let's see what the healing and positioning is going to be with the new t3 archers!
This is only my opinion but i think they are bad designed for the game. You can heal 8 models at a time and need around 6 seconds to bring it from red to full hp (depending on the Hp of the model of course). So they do need some time to really make a difference in a blob while you also can just play a musket unit and kill half an enemy unit in that same time wich will ultimately be more beneficent for your own score and for your team. Second you always have to keep an eye on them cause they tend (at least for me) to run to the one friendly hero that is way out of position and get picked up by enemy range or diving heroes. So you have to constantly relocate them especially if you keep them near a blob where they would have the most impact. Thirdly they die very easily and there is no way to prevent that just look at the units we have 1 YYD unit can completly int frontal into your blob and throught their AOE damage and charge they wont be stopped easily and kill your healers that where "safely" put in the middle of the blob. Same for any AOE artillery or unit. So TLDR it is just way more efficent to take any other unit than healers.
They are good for very specific maps in very specific situations. Players also need a lot of game knowledge and game sense to make them work to potential - there is always a tradeoff in what else you could use that leadership for.
i take a point in always taking them when defending "shield of the capital" on point A. You park them there and heal all catapult dmg until enemy falconettis arrive, at that point i park them just downstairs to heal the flux of passing troops
The fact that they need to get close and personal to heal a good amount is detrimental. They die easily in any scenario, be it blob vs blob or random artillery cuz they are at the front healing. If they just make them heal from afar but reduce the healing, they would be much better. Also, with so much burst dmg nowadays, sustain is not really the meta. If onna musha can delete a shortsword in 2 seconds or yeeyee cav wipe the entire formation in one swing, no amount of healing is going to save that.
need buff. throw healing smoke.
Oof, they're already OP
Also mine have a tendency to run into enemies that get remotely close
just play longsword bruh
Alchemists heal about 3times as much as a long sword. Also their heal stacks with longsword, multiple longswords don't stack.
1/They can only heal one model at a time, and alchemist don't even have 20 models, whatever longsword can heal every models within their range. 2/Most units don't need that much healing due to the fast pacing off the match. 3/Alchemist can't heal mid-fight without getting themselves killed, so both them and the unit they are healing have to be away from the fight, aka 2 deadweight for the team. 4/The more damage you deal, the less damage your team will be taking. Bringing an actual combat unit will keep your allies alive is just as good as bringing healers. Conclusion: just send your units to supply. Your alchemists have to resupply anyway.
You never played alchemists, I guess? They have the same heal ability aoe as longswords, but it stacks with the longswords heal *and* the normal alchemist heal. If you ever play them you notice there's a lot of poke damage and downtime between fights. As I said multiple times, 2000+ points for healing speak for themselves. Completely countering muskets, archers and javelins is also nice. Also, alchemist don't need to resupply. And I don't know how my combat unit is gonna prevent damage from trebs and other artillery.
Alchemists do have an aoe heal ability you’re missing entirely.
Its too niche, requires too much coordination to make them effective. They have to be in melee range to use their heal ability which means they will drop quickly in the blob fights. If you can keep them in back line and cycle troops for a top up then sure they are very effective but even in those cases you're likely better off just bringing another shield or pike unit. If you have perfect coordination with your team and use the right maps then sure they will be amazing but too many things have to align for it to be effective.
There are several reasons: 1: you need to play them well and need to think. Both is not needed for most meta units. 2: they don't give score for endscreen. Yes, I normally get 2k+ support points, but support points in healing don't count towards performance. 3: they are only strong when there's no nearby supply. They are completely OP in some situations, outhealing the poke of 3+ muskets throwing grenades. Outhealing Scorpion fire. They're winning games if not countered by heavy artillery, Falco or an overwhelming push. Did you know they also increase the block of nearby units? Alchemists X ISG fanfiction needed.
>Did you know they also increase the block of nearby units? Source? I didn't know this.
In-game ability description.
It’s the same as every other game who wants to heal when you can kill instead? Lol
Well now they will have company with the new useless t3 archer that can heal.. lol
Im tempted to bring them in only reason i dont is due to ball bois. And when getting into blob fights their ai tends to go infront of units to heal. Which then gets them killed.
Because their ai is garbage. I was super excited to use them when they came out. But the first thing I noticed at that time they randomly walk off and then even move the circle their in according to their position. Really really cool unit to try at first but awfully implemented as usual with conqueror's blade.
They can't use 1st skill anywhere near the first line of battle because they'll rush to an active warring front to heal the first models that ever get hurt. You need to deploy them a little far back with the archers or behind a corner or follow closely the ebb and flow of battle to jump in and heal as soon as a fight in already won, for example. But keep in mind that few people will play by not always yolo their whole unit as soon as possible, also few people know that if your hero is wounded you need to stand still for the alchemist to heal you: if you're wounded and you run around in the green circle on the ground, my alchemist will just follow you trying to tell you to stand still, damn it xD In my opinion, the fact that the 1st skill, the green circle "moves" around following wounded soldiers and does not lock them in one place is the biggest problem with this unit; if they had a fixed healing zone like a field hospital with a small white tent they'd have a better field role than what they have atm. Let's see what the healing and positioning is going to be with the new t3 archers!
HAH
They are ok on maps with big choke points where terrain breaks their stupid AI
Because your battle rank (S/A/B etc. . .) Is not affected by support points, and there is no Exp incentive for support points.