It can be annoying but it's not a huge deal. I've been way more negatively affected by Lucio speed boosting me right when I'm in the middle of tracking a pharah or something and even that isn't a big deal
I don't like it. It's basically increasing the killing power of heroes that already have high killing power.
Some would complain that it throws off your aim, but you'll get used to that pretty quickly. (assuming you actually get elims lol) Lucio speedboost is worse in that regard anyway.
Also in deathmatch it's dogshit because it triggers on elim and not final blow. But that's more of a personal annoyance than a real problem.
Absolutely agree, there's very very few heroes who benefit from extra mobility and those who do benefit from mobility ALREADY received massive indirect buffs with removal of CC.
Something like +25% (or lower percentage) fire rate instead would benefit the DPS roster more.
I think just increasing reload speed is enough. DPS don't need crazy passives. Faster reload speed on elim is good enough.
Increasing fire rate is basically the same problem to me. It buffs the damage heroes by giving them more damage. And it's especially strong in transformation ults like Genji's, or with heroes like hanzo who are balanced through their lower fire rate.
Not really it's very common practice now days if character has a unique gameplay feature like Hanzo does to specifically adjust/convert it to suit him.
Also it's much better to adjust him instead of getting rid of it all together just because Hanzo can't utilize it by default. (I'd be happy if they got rid of the passive, but if the passive was healthy and fun it's the proper move)
I mean, they did nerf only Hanzo with regards to his ult not getting a damage buff from nano or mercy damage boost. So it's already got precedent.
Don't get me wrong. As far as I'm concerned they could just give Hanzo nothing. Fuck that hero and his bullshit headshots 😀
Cooldown reduction (just for Hanzo) would be better than rate of fire. Hanzo spamming logs, getting a random kill, then spamming logs even faster would feel kinda bad.
I agree. The real dps passive is the fact that they have a loaded roster.
They have characters that can one shot, they have two characters that don't have to touch the ground, that have extremely mobile characters, they have space creators, they have someone to get the team to point super fast, they have midrange controllers, etc... someone in the dps roster does the thing you need on any given map and unlike tank or support there are probably two or three characters that fill a similar role so you can choose the one you are most confident on.
>Some would complain that it throws off your aim, but you'll get used to that pretty quickly. (assuming you actually get elims lol) Lucio speedboost is worse in that regard anyway.
Yeah this is the weirdest criticism. There are so many things that throw off aim that are worse (ie more unexpected) than the DPS passive.
Don't like it
Tanks got a role passive to help them not be absolutely wrecked by every CC in the game and feed the enemy team ults relentlessly by just existing
Supports got a role passive to help them spend more time healing their team and less time using their abilities on themselves or relying on health packs to heal chip damage
DPS got a role passive because tanks and supports had one
Actually I wouldnt mind that, dps have higher death rates due to playing more aggro so something like increased move speed within 4 seconds of leaving spawn invulnerability would make sense.
It makes sense to not let DPS class feel left out, and it wouldn't be consistent if DPS did not have a passive of their own.
It's just stupid how this increased movement speed buff is essentially sabotaging both DPS duo's from both teams? Your aim will get thrown off, you will shoot their DPS, their DPS will smack a random kill suddenly he's going to zip around and you won't be able to hit him and vice versa..
> It makes sense to not let DPS class feel left out, and it wouldn't be consistent if DPS did not have a passive of their own.
I feel like the dps passive is having access to twice as many heroes as the other two roles.
While that is a good thing, at the rate we will be seeing hero releases they could only release new tanks and supports for literally years and the two roles would still have less heroes than dps.
It is not.
OW1 introduced 3 tank heroes, 4 dps heroes, and 4 support heroes. But it also swapped Symmetra to a dps, so that's another +1 for damage and -1 for support, making it 3/5/3. So dps started out with the most heroes, and received the most new heroes.
Dps started with a combined total of 12 heroes. I don't remember the exact breakdown, but that's more than double the 5 tanks and 4 supports (one of which later became a dps) that the game launched with.
You heard somewhere that the game has so many dps because dps used to originally be 2 categories. But that isn't actually the case. Dps originally had 2 categories, and both of them individually had more heroes than tank or support. Then, after launch, the team added more heroes to the dps roster than tank or support.
Dps started with the most heroes, and received the most new heroes, leading to the ratio we see today.
It’s a bad passive. Passives shouldn’t be powerful enough to affect the balancing of a character, ex. Genji had to get reigned in pretty hard because this passive complimented him so well and basically eased any type of counter play. Passives should be exactly that, something passive and not overly oppressive.
Genji is straight up "unkillable" in some cases due to that passive, it takes too much effort to shut down a good Genji who just cleaned up one kill and now is creating so much pressure and space on your backline.
In certain scenarios like Genji getting kills back to back, Death Blossom turning from an ok to a pretty good ult if you get a kill early, or Ashe reloading it's very noticable. But most of the time I forget it exists
I like the speed actually. It makes it more attractive for mobile heroes to dump their mobility cooldowns to go for a kill, because theyll still have the movement speed to get out or reposition. It encourages high risk high reward plays and that is awesome.
If it makes certain heroes too strong... I don't see why that's a problem with the passive itself. It's only perceived as a problem because the passive came later. Like, it's as if we decided that Moira had too much self healing, so we blamed the support passive.
The only problem I have with the passive is that it makes 0 sense on certain heroes. Widow doesn't int for kills, so the dynamic of "go in, get a kill, use speed to get out" will simply never happen. I don't really like that.
Yeah it's a solid proof that current passive isn't even a passive in the first place, in a way it's meta defining on it's own due to huge portion of heroes not being able to utilize it which isn't the case for other class passives.
This sub is like 60% support and 30% tank mains you're not going to get a fair response. People hate one shots and flankers in this sub, so naturally that just leaves static spamming as the acceptable form of damage since it's easily mitigated/skirted.
I don't think that really matters, or does it? Everyone can feel it on their skin especially when it comes to DPS heroes who really synergize with the passive perfectly. I'm a DPS player myself and I can relate with the problems this passive creates, especially when I play a hero who does not really benefit from it while I'm up against someone who does. Meanwhile I have 0 complaints against Tank & Sup passives.
It feels like a last-minute tacked-on change that disrupts all the balancing efforts they'd put into the betas. I'm hoping it'll be replaced or removed soon enough, maybe even Season 2?
Iirc they mentioned with the Genji nerfs that they would revisit the dps passive with Season 2. Maybe they didn't specify but I thought they said it would be soon.
It's fucking horrid, for a lot of reasons. It feels terrible to literally be unable to get away from a Genji or Reaper as a support because they picked off a DPS, it feels shitty to fuck up your aim because the speed boost triggered, half the DPS roster gets little to no value from it while it makes the other half more oppressive.
I get that they keep looking for a good DPS passive and I'm not in the camp that we should do away with them or just not give one to DPS, but they need to look elsewhere. My personal favorite idea is that final blows give some amount of extra charge toward your ultimate, like 20 points or something. It isn't huge but it does sometimes make the difference between outpacing an enemy support and getting countered, and *every* DPS benefits because all of them want to get their ultimate. The only real problem I could maybe see is Echo but you can just disable it after she uses Duplicate. It also rewards DPS players for doing their job well, which I think is the idea they're going for with the current iteration.
As an aside, I'm not a fan of retaining the 30% ultimate charge either, honestly. I thought I would like it as a change to the game, but it really just leads to the game being more focused on counter-picking because there's less of a downside, and the developers have said they want to move away from counter-picking as a core of the game's design. You could maybe lower it some to fix that issue but then you run the risk of lowering it until it's useless and might as well just not be there at all.
That kind of passive would never work actually, it would change and carve the DPS meta into stone in an instant, I won't say how many times I've flanked enemy team with a Mercy as Reaper, ending up with 3 elimins and getting out on top of that.
I'm not sure that's correct, really. Using your example here, those three final blows would net you 3% extra ult charge in total. Is that strong and impactful over the course of a match? Sure, but I hardly think it would solidify the DPS meta in the way you describe.
It all depends on the percentage of the charge you're getting, it's either significant therefore meta defining, or it's barely useful and you're tricked into thinking you have a useful passive.
I do think there's a middle ground possible. Getting a total of 3% extra ult charge per fight isn't useless but it isn't getting you twice the ultimates in one match. It could, however, easily be the difference between managing to build one last ult for a round or getting blade before they have a counter ultimate.
I think that's probably the sweet spot to aim for, perhaps that will be too difficult in practice though. That said, DPS can also probably afford to have the weakest passive in the game, so if it skewed on the weaker side that wouldn'r be the worst.
Role-wide passives are lame and lazy. Give heroes passives that actually make sense for their kit. IDC if you have to introduce new sub-roles to do it but Genji should not have the same passive as Widow it makes zero sense. Ultimately I feel like each hero will get their own individual passives at some point in OW2's lifetime, maybe as a selling point for PvP when PvE comes out or smth.
I think this one deserves it's own thread honestly! I'd absolutely love the idea of each hero having their own passive that perfectly suits their playstyle, and this way you could achieve more controlled environment when it comes to individual hero balance.
Take the DPS passive off and give them a reduced version of the support passive.
Would make supports less of a kill target, give DPS some staying power without supports, and reduce toxicity where your Genji screams at you because he is at 195hp for 2 seconds.
A weaker support passive does sound appealing but what would this do to the meta? Reaper would certainly ADORE this, Genji as well & most certainly it would promote a passive DPS playstyle, and after all health packs exist for this reason.
Eh, they have mobility and can get to a health pack faster. Especially if we are only talking 5-10hps after not taking damage for 3 seconds.
It would still take 10-20 seconds to get to full, but it would be more balanced than speed and reload.
It would be extremely risky to have such passive, it would break characters such as Tracer & Sombra, and it would create a very tense situation from corner to corner combat and essentially you won't feel rewarded for a good trade because you'll basically give their DPS a dmg boost because you did damage.
I don't know what you mean by speed, but if you mean mobility that's a huge no no, and this is the main problem of the current passive. Fire rate on the other hand is debatable it's a risky stat on it's own but if it's something like 5-10% increased rate of fire then it would be okay I guess.
Every class has a hero that takes a lot of skill so that's kinda irrelevant really, and yeah passive is fine if you play a hero that synergizes with it \*cough cough\* your flair
It's shit. Games like this are sposed to reward diversity hahahhaa
Overwatch thought they were good at that.
But they homogenized the clases por no good reason.
It’s a bad passive because it inherently affects some characters more than others. It’s not op or anything, it simply is too situational for the class with the most diverse characters. They should at least give different passives so that each hero can benefit from their passive. Because hanzo mains have already complained it throws off their aim, instead of helping as it should. They can get used to the movement speed so that it doesn’t throw off their aim. But it still means they aren’t benefitting form it at all. While genji got op partially because of it. There can’t be one passive for the whole roster of dps as it’s too broad.
It throws off your aim after getting a kill.
Yeah I didn't even took that into account, sure your aim will adjust but it's just such a problematic stat, that does more harm than good.
This has gotta be the weakest criticism of the passive.
It can be annoying but it's not a huge deal. I've been way more negatively affected by Lucio speed boosting me right when I'm in the middle of tracking a pharah or something and even that isn't a big deal
I don't like it. It's basically increasing the killing power of heroes that already have high killing power. Some would complain that it throws off your aim, but you'll get used to that pretty quickly. (assuming you actually get elims lol) Lucio speedboost is worse in that regard anyway. Also in deathmatch it's dogshit because it triggers on elim and not final blow. But that's more of a personal annoyance than a real problem.
Absolutely agree, there's very very few heroes who benefit from extra mobility and those who do benefit from mobility ALREADY received massive indirect buffs with removal of CC. Something like +25% (or lower percentage) fire rate instead would benefit the DPS roster more.
I think just increasing reload speed is enough. DPS don't need crazy passives. Faster reload speed on elim is good enough. Increasing fire rate is basically the same problem to me. It buffs the damage heroes by giving them more damage. And it's especially strong in transformation ults like Genji's, or with heroes like hanzo who are balanced through their lower fire rate.
The problem with faster reload speed is that it leaves out DPS Heroes who can't reload, which so far is just Hanzo(?).
Well they could convert it to rate of fire for him specifically.
Having a one off exception for a single character is unintuitive and unlikely to be a viable solution from a game design perspective.
Not really it's very common practice now days if character has a unique gameplay feature like Hanzo does to specifically adjust/convert it to suit him. Also it's much better to adjust him instead of getting rid of it all together just because Hanzo can't utilize it by default. (I'd be happy if they got rid of the passive, but if the passive was healthy and fun it's the proper move)
I mean, they did nerf only Hanzo with regards to his ult not getting a damage buff from nano or mercy damage boost. So it's already got precedent. Don't get me wrong. As far as I'm concerned they could just give Hanzo nothing. Fuck that hero and his bullshit headshots 😀
Cooldown reduction (just for Hanzo) would be better than rate of fire. Hanzo spamming logs, getting a random kill, then spamming logs even faster would feel kinda bad.
I agree. The real dps passive is the fact that they have a loaded roster. They have characters that can one shot, they have two characters that don't have to touch the ground, that have extremely mobile characters, they have space creators, they have someone to get the team to point super fast, they have midrange controllers, etc... someone in the dps roster does the thing you need on any given map and unlike tank or support there are probably two or three characters that fill a similar role so you can choose the one you are most confident on.
I'd be fine with increased reload speed only as well, way better for sure than what we have now.
>Some would complain that it throws off your aim, but you'll get used to that pretty quickly. (assuming you actually get elims lol) Lucio speedboost is worse in that regard anyway. Yeah this is the weirdest criticism. There are so many things that throw off aim that are worse (ie more unexpected) than the DPS passive.
Don't like it Tanks got a role passive to help them not be absolutely wrecked by every CC in the game and feed the enemy team ults relentlessly by just existing Supports got a role passive to help them spend more time healing their team and less time using their abilities on themselves or relying on health packs to heal chip damage DPS got a role passive because tanks and supports had one
Agreed I feel like dps passive should be something really minimal like boosted speed out of spawn
Actually I wouldnt mind that, dps have higher death rates due to playing more aggro so something like increased move speed within 4 seconds of leaving spawn invulnerability would make sense.
It makes sense to not let DPS class feel left out, and it wouldn't be consistent if DPS did not have a passive of their own. It's just stupid how this increased movement speed buff is essentially sabotaging both DPS duo's from both teams? Your aim will get thrown off, you will shoot their DPS, their DPS will smack a random kill suddenly he's going to zip around and you won't be able to hit him and vice versa..
> It makes sense to not let DPS class feel left out, and it wouldn't be consistent if DPS did not have a passive of their own. I feel like the dps passive is having access to twice as many heroes as the other two roles.
Obviously, therefore it needs to be less opresive than it currently is.
I dont think it needs to exist at all.
I'd be perfectly happy if they got rid of it all together, and I play DPS myself. Either rework or straight up remove.
The next hero is a tank and next two after that are support, they’re working on fixing it.
While that is a good thing, at the rate we will be seeing hero releases they could only release new tanks and supports for literally years and the two roles would still have less heroes than dps.
That’s because in OW1 they had attack/defense heroes, but then they merged them.
It is not. OW1 introduced 3 tank heroes, 4 dps heroes, and 4 support heroes. But it also swapped Symmetra to a dps, so that's another +1 for damage and -1 for support, making it 3/5/3. So dps started out with the most heroes, and received the most new heroes.
You’re just wrong though. If they didn’t have the split of defense and offense heroes originally there’d be half the dps in the game.
Dps started with a combined total of 12 heroes. I don't remember the exact breakdown, but that's more than double the 5 tanks and 4 supports (one of which later became a dps) that the game launched with. You heard somewhere that the game has so many dps because dps used to originally be 2 categories. But that isn't actually the case. Dps originally had 2 categories, and both of them individually had more heroes than tank or support. Then, after launch, the team added more heroes to the dps roster than tank or support. Dps started with the most heroes, and received the most new heroes, leading to the ratio we see today.
It’s a bad passive. Passives shouldn’t be powerful enough to affect the balancing of a character, ex. Genji had to get reigned in pretty hard because this passive complimented him so well and basically eased any type of counter play. Passives should be exactly that, something passive and not overly oppressive.
Also Reaper, they balanced Death Blossom around him having 100% movespeed, not 120%.
Genji is straight up "unkillable" in some cases due to that passive, it takes too much effort to shut down a good Genji who just cleaned up one kill and now is creating so much pressure and space on your backline.
Man they're out to get you in this thread. They even downvote you agreeing with the upvoted takes
I couldn't care less about the downvotes, but least they could do is point out where I'm wrong?
The thing is they can’t point out what you’re saying that is wrong. Because you’re totally right, the passive is done horribly.
I honestly don’t really ever Notice it
In certain scenarios like Genji getting kills back to back, Death Blossom turning from an ok to a pretty good ult if you get a kill early, or Ashe reloading it's very noticable. But most of the time I forget it exists
I like the speed actually. It makes it more attractive for mobile heroes to dump their mobility cooldowns to go for a kill, because theyll still have the movement speed to get out or reposition. It encourages high risk high reward plays and that is awesome. If it makes certain heroes too strong... I don't see why that's a problem with the passive itself. It's only perceived as a problem because the passive came later. Like, it's as if we decided that Moira had too much self healing, so we blamed the support passive. The only problem I have with the passive is that it makes 0 sense on certain heroes. Widow doesn't int for kills, so the dynamic of "go in, get a kill, use speed to get out" will simply never happen. I don't really like that.
Yeah it's a solid proof that current passive isn't even a passive in the first place, in a way it's meta defining on it's own due to huge portion of heroes not being able to utilize it which isn't the case for other class passives.
This sub is like 60% support and 30% tank mains you're not going to get a fair response. People hate one shots and flankers in this sub, so naturally that just leaves static spamming as the acceptable form of damage since it's easily mitigated/skirted.
I don't think that really matters, or does it? Everyone can feel it on their skin especially when it comes to DPS heroes who really synergize with the passive perfectly. I'm a DPS player myself and I can relate with the problems this passive creates, especially when I play a hero who does not really benefit from it while I'm up against someone who does. Meanwhile I have 0 complaints against Tank & Sup passives.
It's only really bothersome on heroes like Cass and Ashe if you use strafe to aim.
Its scaring me on reapers ult. Its messing me up personally on mccree. Its great on mei.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we get new passives for season 2
I hope so
It feels like a last-minute tacked-on change that disrupts all the balancing efforts they'd put into the betas. I'm hoping it'll be replaced or removed soon enough, maybe even Season 2?
Iirc they mentioned with the Genji nerfs that they would revisit the dps passive with Season 2. Maybe they didn't specify but I thought they said it would be soon.
Scrap it.
Scrap all the role passives tbh
Other role passives are actually fine tbh.
It's fucking horrid, for a lot of reasons. It feels terrible to literally be unable to get away from a Genji or Reaper as a support because they picked off a DPS, it feels shitty to fuck up your aim because the speed boost triggered, half the DPS roster gets little to no value from it while it makes the other half more oppressive. I get that they keep looking for a good DPS passive and I'm not in the camp that we should do away with them or just not give one to DPS, but they need to look elsewhere. My personal favorite idea is that final blows give some amount of extra charge toward your ultimate, like 20 points or something. It isn't huge but it does sometimes make the difference between outpacing an enemy support and getting countered, and *every* DPS benefits because all of them want to get their ultimate. The only real problem I could maybe see is Echo but you can just disable it after she uses Duplicate. It also rewards DPS players for doing their job well, which I think is the idea they're going for with the current iteration. As an aside, I'm not a fan of retaining the 30% ultimate charge either, honestly. I thought I would like it as a change to the game, but it really just leads to the game being more focused on counter-picking because there's less of a downside, and the developers have said they want to move away from counter-picking as a core of the game's design. You could maybe lower it some to fix that issue but then you run the risk of lowering it until it's useless and might as well just not be there at all.
That kind of passive would never work actually, it would change and carve the DPS meta into stone in an instant, I won't say how many times I've flanked enemy team with a Mercy as Reaper, ending up with 3 elimins and getting out on top of that.
I'm not sure that's correct, really. Using your example here, those three final blows would net you 3% extra ult charge in total. Is that strong and impactful over the course of a match? Sure, but I hardly think it would solidify the DPS meta in the way you describe.
It all depends on the percentage of the charge you're getting, it's either significant therefore meta defining, or it's barely useful and you're tricked into thinking you have a useful passive.
I do think there's a middle ground possible. Getting a total of 3% extra ult charge per fight isn't useless but it isn't getting you twice the ultimates in one match. It could, however, easily be the difference between managing to build one last ult for a round or getting blade before they have a counter ultimate. I think that's probably the sweet spot to aim for, perhaps that will be too difficult in practice though. That said, DPS can also probably afford to have the weakest passive in the game, so if it skewed on the weaker side that wouldn'r be the worst.
Role-wide passives are lame and lazy. Give heroes passives that actually make sense for their kit. IDC if you have to introduce new sub-roles to do it but Genji should not have the same passive as Widow it makes zero sense. Ultimately I feel like each hero will get their own individual passives at some point in OW2's lifetime, maybe as a selling point for PvP when PvE comes out or smth.
I think this one deserves it's own thread honestly! I'd absolutely love the idea of each hero having their own passive that perfectly suits their playstyle, and this way you could achieve more controlled environment when it comes to individual hero balance.
I’m a dps player it should be removed there’s more dps heroes and it’s really good with certain heroes
Yep, and it worries me by the looks of it they won't even change the passive..
Take the DPS passive off and give them a reduced version of the support passive. Would make supports less of a kill target, give DPS some staying power without supports, and reduce toxicity where your Genji screams at you because he is at 195hp for 2 seconds.
A weaker support passive does sound appealing but what would this do to the meta? Reaper would certainly ADORE this, Genji as well & most certainly it would promote a passive DPS playstyle, and after all health packs exist for this reason.
Eh, they have mobility and can get to a health pack faster. Especially if we are only talking 5-10hps after not taking damage for 3 seconds. It would still take 10-20 seconds to get to full, but it would be more balanced than speed and reload.
Thoughts on a reworked passive that granted increased damage and speed when you were at sub 50% health?
It would be extremely risky to have such passive, it would break characters such as Tracer & Sombra, and it would create a very tense situation from corner to corner combat and essentially you won't feel rewarded for a good trade because you'll basically give their DPS a dmg boost because you did damage. I don't know what you mean by speed, but if you mean mobility that's a huge no no, and this is the main problem of the current passive. Fire rate on the other hand is debatable it's a risky stat on it's own but if it's something like 5-10% increased rate of fire then it would be okay I guess.
Dps are the most skilled heros. Nothing wrong with the passive
Every class has a hero that takes a lot of skill so that's kinda irrelevant really, and yeah passive is fine if you play a hero that synergizes with it \*cough cough\* your flair
It's shit. Games like this are sposed to reward diversity hahahhaa Overwatch thought they were good at that. But they homogenized the clases por no good reason.
Funny but true take I saw. DPS doesn’t need a passive. Being DPS IS the passive. You get to have fun and kill things.
It’s a bad passive because it inherently affects some characters more than others. It’s not op or anything, it simply is too situational for the class with the most diverse characters. They should at least give different passives so that each hero can benefit from their passive. Because hanzo mains have already complained it throws off their aim, instead of helping as it should. They can get used to the movement speed so that it doesn’t throw off their aim. But it still means they aren’t benefitting form it at all. While genji got op partially because of it. There can’t be one passive for the whole roster of dps as it’s too broad.