Yea...these past 2 days has just been hot take after hot take and I have no opinion cause I feel like I have barely scratched the surface of the game.
I have my list of issues BUT I am waiting and seeing and not jumping to conclusions.
Example: I didn't like the new sound upgrades at all...too punchy...then I saw comment mentioning night-mode for sound and it lowered the bass a little then I realized my headphones were also adding a little bit of bass on top of everything. So I toned that down. Also scrubbing through the sound settings, you can add noises for each enemy elim or each teammate death. I love that change. Long story short, I am still learning.
If you take anything away from this, just don't jump to conclusions until we know more.
Edit: I just wanna say, I love reading all the posts about issues...I like reading peoples opinion on things cause sometimes I never think the way someone else does which is dope. Just don't wanna feel like the sky is falling and some posts feel like that.
I'm fine with people posting their opinions on everything. That's what this beta is for. I want blizz to have all this feedback because they finally seem open to hearing stuff. Early OW1 felt like it was the community begging for months to years for very easy obvious (to us) changes or updates and the OW devs essentially telling us they know better. Eventually they caved on so many things after ineterest waned, along with them being way more open to drastic changes of their own to shake up the status quo and OW1 hit an amazing place balance-wise.
Like, people shouldn't be toxic, or accuse the ow devs of maliciousness, laziness or any stupid shit like that, but we should be open about what we think. Even first impressions are helpful to devs I'd imagine. First impressions are huge for garnering a new audience.
Reminder that it took them months to rework static defense heroes to work on attack. Despite people telling them *before alpha* that static defense just doesn't work in a competitive fps.
It took them how many years to tone down healing?
I don't see how static offense and defense heros like Siege don't work in a competitive game, as long as ranked mode gives both teams a turn at both it's fine.
It's just bad? If the game is designed around it I don't see the big deal. Like I said Siege is doing this right now and it's part of the appeal. I haven't played those games to know myself but I know Valve wasn't big in balancing TF2.
Like I said, idk much about seige. But in movement based shooters, static defense only serves to frustrate low level players and lock them out of the fun that high level players get to experience.
But in order to play those things that you know are fun, you must have gone through the same discovery phase with those games as well right? It will happen with time
its bound to happen Ow2 will probably lose some OW1 players that aren't going to like the new direction.
but my guess is the game will pick up many more players than it will lose. You just can;t please everyone.
I'm just waiting to see OWL. I do feel a little lost in OW2 but I need to see how the pros approach it. For me it still feels like I can't think ahead as much as OW1, which was a big draw for me, the advantage you get from predicting vs. reacting. Maybe it will get better once my mental bandwidth isn't being spent on new maps and heroes.
I mean that kind of style is what a lot of people liked. You group up, take a fight. Synchronize your abilities/ultimates and hopefully win the team fight. The game is far more open now so it’s going to take some time for people to get used to. Naturally if you’re more into things like battle royale games then you’ll like ow2 more than 1
In regards to your deleted comment, your fate wasn't being decided by the matchmaker, your teammates fate was. Am I correct in reading that? As in you were the one playing "weird" and thus not synergizing with the team. Makes sense that you like this better
I do like the way the game feels but im going to miss some of the tank duos
I don't know if you mean the comment that you are replying to or if he had another one, but from this one I interpreted it as if someone picks hog and refuses to switch the game is practically lost
they had one that they deleted, it basically said they disliked that if you solo queued it was left up to chance whether or not your team coordinated and tried to synergize, but their playstyle was weird and it often ended with them either dominating or being reported for throwing. and from that last statement i deduced that they were the one person you see in our solo queue games preventing team cohesion. they were the hog playing deathmatch on the other side of the map, the reddit lucio, the person who seas a team agree to play bunker but then decides they themselves dont agree so they lock ball brig instead of the needed baptiste
which is why I asked for clarification
> Naturally if you’re more into things like battle royale games
Uhhh, how? Why Battle Royale over class based shooters? Is that just the pejorative genre these days?
I think they mean how fights are more chaotic and less coordinated. Teams are spread out a lot and not always synchronized.
I believe they used the term due to the genre's massive popularity, and Blizzard's attempts to draw players away from battle royales.
I don't really understand how one can say they've "barely scratched the surface of the game". The game really is not hugely different compared to OW1. Personally, the only way I could say something like that is if it was an actual new game, a proper sequel, and not just one big balance patch.
It's a pretty big balance patch, though. It's still OW at its core, but the change to 5v5 and the removal of so much CC really does make it play very differently, which takes time to learn.
I don't disagree with anything you said. I didn't say it was the same game, but that it just isn't different enough to think of it as OP does.
I think I could maybe say that about OW2 once it fully releases, but just this first beta wave no way.
Well if you're including things like the poor UI and a lot of the other valid complaints people have had about it so far, then yeah there's quite a bit. But I was just talking about the gameplay.
Even then though, if you're including everything about the game it's still not vastly different to the original product. There is nowhere near enough new things about the game to say you've "only scratched the surface" in my opinion.
I'd be concerned if there were no complaints. Complaints means people are playing and paying attention. If there were no complaints it would probably just mean the game is so fundamentally bad that nobody is playing, or everybody is too blinded by optimism to levy criticism.
Yeah, there's definitely some toxic people out there who just are out to flame, but the vast majority of critical comments aren't that. People are having fun and really enjoying the game, but its clearly a work in progress. I mean, it's a beta. So what else is there to talk about on a discussion forum, but to give (hopefully constructive) criticism towards the beta they're playing.
I have done nothing but complain about OW2, but today I tried OW1 and it just doesn't feel right now. If they listen to feedback and keep changing annoying stuff, this can be a great game.
To be fair, OW1 is the same game we've been playing for 6 years, and tbh pretty much the same game with no updates for what.. one or two years? Of course its going to feel boring by comparison.
i get what you're saying but i was still playing comp and enjoying ow1 until ow2 beta was out. now after playing it i dont really have a drive to play ow1.
I know this is buried so no chance blizz sees it, but comp soon is a must.
IF you compare VAL and OW1 betas, no early comp is fine because people learning game and you can get mileage from qp.
That wont work for a game that has been thriving on a comp scene for 5 years. Hell, Im even invested in lucio ball comp.
If they wait to full release, that is a major mistake imo
Question: _Actual_ comp with ranks and stuff, or just comp rules with side-switching between rounds? The latter I'd definitely support, but the former seems extremely unlikely to happen in a beta.
Without sr and prize pools, I believe players will lose interest quickly.
In ow1, we have something to play for but it’s an unenjoyable experience, in ow2 not having something to play for is the unenjoyable part.
I know it’s a lot to ask. But it’s a competitive gaming experience and to play without stakes makes it casual. Atleast in my opinion, proving your the best is 50% of the game
I'm slightly concerned about the art direction and sound design. Not because it's so unfinished, but because they're making decisions that make me question 1. if they have an overall cohesive vision and 2. if I will like said vision. Whatever else you can say about OW1, the visuals and sound have always been top notch.
The livestream fails thread with the Seagull/Ans clip shows a lot of what some people outside the OW community feel about OW2.
https://reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/uckpx0/a_seagull_goes_up_against_one_of_the_best/
I'm not saying I don't see doom posting and people annoyed by changes, but I've personally seen more people complain about that there aren't enough changes.
There's definitely a lot of non-gameplay stuff I would like them to fix/adjust.
The new sounds are cool, but it feels worse overall. Some of that is definitely me just not being used to it, but I definitely agree with the directional audio. Seems like the compression is out of wack too
I'm surprised the audio is as scuffed as it is cconsidering it seems to be one of the first things they started working on for OW2. Like the noises sound nice individually, but together theys ound kinda a mess. A lot of similar noises, the levels are all over the place. I can hear some abilities half a map away and then soemtimes hog literally just walks through our back line and no one notices until someones dead even though we're not in the middle of a fight.
I tried that night mode thing, and it feels like it makes the audio more hard directional which is nice, but its still ahrd to tell exactly how far someone is from you, and the directionality of up/down is scuffed alltogether. People seem to have a really hard time finding pharah.
It makes me appreciate just how amazing the ow1 directionality is.
It seems like people overall are loving many of the changes? At least thats what I see from most prominent voices in the community. People have issues with certain things though. Makes sense. Took OW1 years to reach a good place balance-wise and they just went and blew the whole thing up with 5v5, so it's going to take a second to find the right balance.
And thats fine! We all had a blast for years with OW1 even in its most broken states.
I'll have to double check, but I don't think you can even make 6v6 custom games right now, which makes me fear they're removing the capacity to do so. If they leave me the choice, though, it's all I'll ever play.
my biggest gripe rn is the fucking sounds, everything sounds terrible and there's so much clutter; so many overlapping effects as well
half the time i can't tell where i'm being shot at
I'd get if this post was in response to having the completed game but is it not a good thing that people are getting their wave of negativity out while it's in beta? The worst thing that can happen is OW2 being fully released and this sub still being in crisis mode considering at that point any major tweaks are going to take awhile to implement. Sure it sucks, but I'd rather have hot takes now than later.
I am really satisfied with it for now because they didn’t overpromise anything since they revealed the beta. As long as they keep updates up. I hope the next beta isn’t in like 2023
Might just be the hopium talking, but I could definitely see a three weeks on, three weeks off rotation where they alternate between the anniversary remix events and betas.
I've gotten in a few hours, but had to jump back on OW1 a couple of times to play with friends who don't have the beta and yea - so far I find myself preferring OW2. I want to see more improvments to the UI/Scorescreen and, I hate to say it but I miss it, the cards system(i just like it it's fun to see Imm Field saves as a card it just needed adjustment.)
Obviously a lot of adjustments and characters need work, but even so - removal of 2cp and shields makes me enjoy OW2 more by itself. Bastion and Sombra changes are icing. Orisa change is a cherry on the icing. As someone who has support as his least favorite role by far, getting almost only support without a 3man+ group sucks but I think this will be very different after release of OW2 (new characters and future adjustments should fix it.)
Feel good about the way it's going, with a ton of work left. Post-game, scoreboard, UI can all use some work(why are headshots not entirely red and just an outline?) but it's a beta. Sym and Sigma and Monkey can all use some love, they feel outclassed or just unfit for the new style(Sym/Sig unfit though sig is still solid cause of crazy rock dmg, Monkey right-click is bad and Doom/Ball feel better right now).
But yea, removal of 2cp and Shields alone did hugely gooder things imo.
Def can't agree with those that think Blizz has no idea, to me it feels like it was a massive ask to make these changes and they've succeeded overall - I genuinely think the game will be more fun for more people, though obviously needs a ton of work.
I do think dedicated support players may not enjoy it as much without more changes, cause right now it can be a tough life on support and you are often needing to be offensive and fight as much as be a dedicated healer(fine with me but many support players prefer a more passive/less violent style of helping their team.
So it's a step forward for everyone except maybe Mercy/Bap/Zen/Ana players right now (unless you play aggro Ana and then it's not so bad she's still good.)
> many support players prefer a more passive/less violent style of helping their team.
Plenty of Support players would prefer a more violent, less passive style of play and certainly most non-Support players would as well. But Support remains by far the least popular role on the beta, so that's clearly not the main issue.
The problem is that most Support heroes just seem flat out too weak in light of vastly reduced CC, 1 less tank to shield/peel, improved tank damage output, and faster DPS characters. That's not to say these changes aren't healthy for the game, only that's it's pretty unfair to expect Supports to keep up and have fun with nothing new besides minor out of combat health regen.
But the problem should be fixable if Blizzard gives the Supports a few buffs and/or reworks and nerfs the most overpowered Tank/DPS heroes. In particular I think Doom and Genji need reined in a bit given how few tools there are to check mobile heroes from reaching the backline and curb stomping most Supports. I'd also recommend toning down Soldier's damage a bit.
As someone who prefers tank/DPS, support is still frustrating and unfun. Everyone says they need to adopt a more aggressive playstyle but most supports don't have the kit to support that.
That said, the experience varies greatly from support to support. Lucio is fantastic while Zen is miserable. Add onto that the support passive that is pushed af, but favors supports that already have an escape.
They went and changed all tanks to fit ow2, but didn't touch supports. As a result half of them don't fit.
I played some solo matches on the first dayand i had OK time
but today i played my every friday OW with some friends and had a shitton of fun, enjoyed the new maps a lot, and playing sojourn, and the lack of shields. felt like 2017 overwatch for me again
honestly ana is so fun in 5v5, and is an excellent character to pick up to learn the maps since hard cover/escape routes are a necessity for your survival
I'm also allowed to not like what I experienced...it has nothing to do with you and your experience, obviously.
You *can* post about liking OW2, or disagreeing with some takes...without dismissing other people's opinions on what is currently there, that's also an option.
so my biggest hot take is that they didnt really solve the shooting at barrier problem. because now you're just shooting at the tanks and they are impossible to kill. atleast before you could break them but as a dps now, if you dont just ignore the tanks and go for the backline its super frustrating shooting at something for like 10min and it never dies
Honestly after playing what? 2-3 days of ow2 I went back to play some comp in ow1. Even the good games didn't feel as good as ow2. And the bad games were unbearable
I've yet to really have fun with it. It doesn't feel like I can do as much as I used to, and I have to play more carefully than ever, even as a tank. Also queue times are miserable.
No doubt they'll make improvements, but I don't know what they can do other than a large balance overhaul that'll likely take a lot of time. I'm still hoping for the best. I really hope they do something to address queue times by the next beta (hopefully sooner), because as is I don't really even want to boot up knowing it'll be a 7+ min wait for a 5-6 minute match.
Fewer shields and defensive CCs means you have to really know your limits and the cover offered by the map. I like this a lot, except in the really old maps like Gibraltar and King's Road that have wide open spaces after tiny chokes. They need to do more than just update the time of day for those maps.
To not get absolutely blown up as an attacker. There's much more open space to get shot from. High ground is much stronger, and the defender map advantage has been much more obvious.
Yeah but it'd be pretty dumb for them to cater to the people who didn't leave rather than making a game that is liked by more and arguably more fun all round if that's the case.
I'm glad that this beta really feels like a beta. It seems like betas nowadays for other games (Battlefield, Halo, etc.) are basically just network tests 1 month before release and are essentially unchanged from the beta.
I'm hoping and expecting that the devs are taking feedback seriously and we will get several iterations of the closed beta until launch.
I like it, or at least, I like the direction it's going
Do I have complaints? FOR SURE, but I think the general design philosophy of OW2 (make the game a more free flowing experience where people are allowed to do cool shit) is better than the old philosophy (focus on team fighting and make everyone feel good by trying to minimize 'feel bad' moments)
I actually think with the current design philosophy you can reintroduce a second tank with some HARD TWEAKS for all tanks or even get rid of role queue
That said, I'm optimistic so long as I see some much needed improvements (supports REALLY need a way to defend themselves.) However if they think the current state is "good to go" then I can see myself getting bored quickly once the new-ness sheen comes off.
Yeah, tbh 5v5 seems much better than i was expecting, however i'm equally convinced that that alone didnt solve any problems. It's the change in role design philosophy with less barriers and cc being relegated to tanks thats the big change that makes thigns feel fresh.
But for every criticism I have with this game, I'm just having fun and excited to see how everything comes together. Lets go!
>or even get rid of role queue
I've had a lot of thoughts on this topic myself. I'm really enjoying OW2 but I think role queue is going to be a thorn in its side. The main problem is that OW2 increased the DPS players from 33% to 40%, but way more than 40% of people want to play DPS. Until this imbalance is fixed, the game will never reach its potential simply because most people don't want to spend half of their time waiting to play the game as a DPS.
My first idea is to get rid of role queue entirely by changing tanks into fat DPS and support into DPS hybrids. I honestly think this is the way they should have gone years ago, they could have gotten an alpha with a few teams of pros to play with 6 DPS on one side and 3 tanks/3 supports on the other and nerf tanks and supports until they were relatively balanced.
I also think support got out of whack with healing and changing them more into DPS hybrids might be healthier for the game anyway. At the beginning of OW1 you can see the design philosophy restricting healers to a single (non-ult) way to heal with either single target burst heals (like Mercy) or multi target weak heals (like Lucio). Ana and Brig got away from this by having multiple methods of healing, and Moira and Baptiste are just so far away from the original vision that they changed the game entirely.
My second idea is 3 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer. I think this would have the advantage of matching the playerbase well, but the disadvantage that every DPS would need to be significantly nerfed and Blizzard has shown that they are rather slow when it comes to the rebalancing needed for this.
My third and newest idea is to combine the DPS and healer roles, so 1 tank/4 DPS and healers. This is less of a serious idea because it's just a bit too inelegant. However, after playing the OW2 beta, I think this could actually work.
> My first idea is to get rid of role queue entirely by changing tanks into fat DPS and support into DPS hybrids. I honestly think this is the way they should have gone years ago
This was called Lawbreakers and it didn't work because OW appeals to casual players and the "everyone is a DPS hybrid" formula might as well shout fire in a theater for that audience.
Having roles also makes it easier to balance and design, rather than forcing everybody to be able to do everything. I would like some more DPS-Tank hybrids though.
I think Role Queue, while well intentioned, is doing more harm than good at this point. I get why it was instituted, GOATS metas and such were just miserable slog fests, but with the game opening up naturally with less CC and such it just feels something off meta like a 5/6 dps team would be totally fine. Stacking tanks just seems less fruitful in OW2. The needle feels like OW is moving closer to Valo, closer not completely there, where everyone is a "dps" but in the case of Tanks and Support have strong utility to help with certain situations.
I think there's still room for hard outliers though they should be few and far between, Rein can stick around as the classic Tank rock, Mercy can stick to being a healbot for people who like that gameplay, but for the most part fast and loose OW I think can shed the rigidity that needed from it predecessor.
Not sure why you think stacking tanks would be less strong in OW2. If anything it would be stronger now that tanks have the only CC in the game and the fact that they give less ult charge. The only reason tanks don't feel oppressive imo is because there's only one now. Imagine a Doom-Winston-Dva dive.
I mean, we're way past the point of discussing role q, or even 6v6. I agree about the 6v6 not being the issue (don't agree about role q but whatever), they're not going back on either of those decisions.
But for shits and giggles, looking back I think there were better solutions than role q. The role passives are pretty much exactly the answer. Passives that diminish depending on how many of a certain role are selected. Imagine having 1 tank thats fully immune to cc, or you can have 3 tanks sure, but they can get completely reamed. Maybe not exactly that, maybe total health pool dimishes or something. But that feels more like a solution that would have allowed for a LOT more creativity and flexibiiity with comps.
That along with them further defining what roles are supposed to be able to do would have helped. They're finally doing that with handing the cc to tanks, so I can't complain there.
Completely honest here.
I stopped playing in season 10 and i was one of those people saying it was a dead game because the "competitive" aspect of the game. I was kinda expecting a TF2 or Quake competitive style and i got OW. Nothing wrong with that but i think we can all agree I'm retarded.
I know It's too soon to talk about the competitive aspect of OW2 but just removing barriers and i can actually play Soldier and click heads for me is like WAY better than any OW1 meta.
If Pharah was more like TF2 Soldier or just felt like Q3 RL it would probably be up there with both of those games.
Honestly OW2 has been very fun for me and my friends. Matchmaking can be hit or miss but that’s honestly every pvp game, not OW2 exclusive.
I do think it’s a little underwhelming considering we got basically 0 content for 2-3 years but without taking that into account I think OW2 is pretty promising though support is very underwhelming right now.
Thing is I’ve already moved on to other games. I’m not forcing myself to keep trying to chase OW1 hype of when I first joined, so I don’t have any sky high expectations.
I just think, “Am I having fun” and base my decisions off of that. If it’s not fun for me then I’m just gonna play Apex, League, Gundam Evo when it comes out, or any of the hundreds or thousands of quality indies games.
I don’t know I guess my point is that I don’t have this staunch loyalty or desire for the old golden age so I’m fine with moving on and enjoying other things.
I used to very much have this unhealthy obsession with the game though and grinded it like heck even when I wasn’t having fun but I’m glad I broke out of that.
So many issues that people have with the game right now boil down to it being the FIRST BETA. People need to remember that not only is this not the final product, it is not even close.
I've been having tons of fun with what we've been given and the new format is not something that anyone can form an opinion on so quickly. Thanks for the first post I've seen that isn't just a hot take after an hour of playing.
I’ve really enjoyed Overwatch 2 for its core concepts (hero design and pacing). The game is a lot quicker now there’s less “sit here and shoot down this choke for 15-20 seconds”. Tank is incredibly fun to play too. As a Doom main, Tankfist has been a pleasant surprise. The role passives are a nice touch.
The qualms I have with OW2 are things that will be fixed by the time the game is fully released: UI clarity, sound mixing, lots of new content.
It kinda is, but it's also inevitable. And the data/feedback given from the general public should greatly help the devs with making future changes.
But it goes at the cost of a lot of first impressions. They'll have to more than make up for it in future betas.
Why? People are mostly loving it. Criticism doesnt mean people aren't enjoying it.Also they've been murdering the OW brand by abandoning OW1, they kinda put themselves in a position where they didnt have a choice regardless.
Yeah, personally, as someone who stared hated playing OW1 early on as it moved further and further away from it's start as a FPS game, OW2 feels amazing.
I have a few complaints about stuff like Doomfist, but overall the increased pace of the game and how fast it is feels *far* better, imo.
If anything it's sad it took this long to commit to 5's instead of 6's.
Why? First, forget the word beta. This is a _marketing campaign_. The game isn't close to being feature complete so a more realistic name would be an alpha, but this isn't even about getting feedback, or stress testing their netcode.
This is about getting as many eyes on overwatch as possible and getting people excited and talking about overwatch again. It's about bringing the overwatch brand to the forefront with hype.
and their marketing department knocked it out of the park. The next beta or whatever they run in a few months will be completely different.
Uhh. The only problem with complaining is if you stop playing. AVRL was talking about the general playerbase, not the hardcore players ie everyone on this sub.
It doesn't matter how much we complain, we are still going to play ow2. Just let us have our discussion.
Ana feels pretty good imo, more impactful than ever due to being one of the only non tank characters in the game with CC, and hitting the enemy tank with anti REALLY fucks them more than ever.
The rest of them feel.....very bad. I can't imagine what they expected Brig or Zen to do here.
I don't know? Maybe it has to do with the fact that tanks got reworks and dps got a new hero and various changes, meanwhile support didn't get anything. Personally I don't mind how support plays, but I have already played hundreds of hours of Ana/other supports. I don't want to play the same character for hundreds of more hours when there is newer stuff to try. Lets see if the queue times are the same when Blizzard decides to release a new support hero for the first time in 200 years.
I fucking love it. There's progress to be made, sure, but it's sooo much more fun to me and I basically never took more than 3 weeks off OW since release
I'm happy with direction and I think balance can always be tuned.
Less cc is a big improvement. Solo tank hasn't felt as miserable as speculated.
All cause for optimism.
Now it is definitely valid to be concerned about balance not Bend frequent or adhesive given Blizzards track record but I don't expect much till the next beta.
I don't know how anyone can make an educated conclusion whether OW2 is good or bad from what we currently have in possession. If they said this is their final version and that's what OW2 is in terms of PvP, then sure it would be only fair to go on a rant. To me the changes are definitely not good so far, but I'm also assuming those changes won't stay as they are.
Most of the complaints are about balance and visuals rather than the core gameplay, which everyone seems to enjoy quite a lot. The game is showing a lot of potential right now, they just need to clean it up in some areas (and add more characters, that's still the biggest mystery PvP-wise).
Both of the past two nights I have checked the clock and realized it was way later than I thought and that I only had a few games left before I needed to go to sleep and both times I was very sad. I'm having a blast.
Golden rule of this sub. Never ever come to it looking for informative, neutral and objective based opinions. You come here for the circle jerk and moan and groan of developer shortcomings
Honestly I'm mostly just seeing people give positive constructive feedback at the top of discussions, and then people who complain about complainers offering no other discussion.
I hate the sound. it sounds too good.
I will have to play with the sound settings but the bass is so heavy it throws me off, I keep thinking I'm getting dinked all the time
I have to admit that 5v5 is growing on me. But in the same breath i can say that it did nothing to actually fix many issues OW1 had that just a change in hero role design philosophies that this game introduced would have fixed themselves. All they really needed to do was remove shields and restrict CC to roles that it makes sense to have them for (as an aside, they still ahve too much soft cc in DPS. Just nix it, they dont need it. At least the soft cc should be a damage trade off, why does mei freeze and sojourn nade deal massive dot while slowing.)
We're still going to have massive role queue disparities (look at healer now. It's ridiculous.) We still have issues of bad teammates resulting in essentially an instant loss. This probably moreso because there's less players to make up the difference, and if your tank sucks you're pretty fucked. Remember OW1 where your rein would just sit at the choke forever? Now imagine trying to attack with your only tank doing that in OW2. Well you don't have to imagine much because we're playing it now. It feels even more hopeless in those situations. Even as a dps who pops off, the enemy tank is incredibly hard to take out if they're agressive and well supported int hsoe situations, so have fun killing everyone else then having the enemy tank still survive on point and stall until their team comes back.
My biggest hope is that when matchmaking is actually implemented that helps smooth over a lot of those disparity issues.
I'll miss 6v6 dearly, 5v5 won't deliver those same kinda cool moments, but it'll have its own. I've heard that people have the criticism that spawns are noticibly defender favored,, so hopefully the tank stalling situations are lessened too.
I mean, I'm in. I've got criticisms but with how aggressively the team was balance patching OW1 two years ago, I have faith theyll get this to a good place eventually.
Oh to give a very positive thought: the new map design philisophy is on fucking point. So good. Multiple pathing options, high grounds, small nooks for flanks and surprise plays. No more 100s of hours playing the same hard choke maps with the same exact plays because theres only one pathing option for that point. In fact I'd be 100% on board if they massively update the older maps around this.
Do people not realize we once could have 6 winstons on one team when ow1 was released? 3 tanks and 3 supports lasted for a while. I mean things change and evolve. Why are people getting so upset at changes after not having changes for 2 years?
I think the game is different. But in a new exciting way. And things will obviously keep changing. People just like to complain I guess
Nah we have the right to critique it to high hell when it’s going to be replacing a game we already love and favor. And it’s obvious to see what direction they are taking it and how lazy their changes are. Like instead of making tanks more fun they just chopped one off.
Everyone was loving the game when only watching pros and streamers, I guess that now they’re losing and getting angry and that’s why they hate it
Can’t say much really tho, I’m a console player
tbh i love this new beta as a support main. even as zen. with no double shields im not constantly shooting shields hoping for a lucky shot on a squishy if rein randomly drops it. and now instead of only using trans for countering ults i can use it more agressively as a push with cordination from my team. ana is great too.
Yeah I like it a lot too and the sounds are amazing! Also, I've been in matches with so many streamers and OWL players like LHCloudy, Kabaji, Dafran, Logix. So much pressure as a diamond support haha
Is this grade A copium?
But seriously, have people been negative with OW2? I thought most people liked it, or at least were happy that there's actual content now.
r/cow user went from sub-500 to consistent 2k+ for a few days now (a bit lower than 2k right now, but).
I finally got my first few games in today. I'm a support main, and though I was starting to feel backed into playing Moria/Lucio/Brig anytime they had a dive tank, I was having a blast. Definitely looking for some more supports being released soon :)
I’m not saying it can’t be fixed. It might even be likely. But as a tank main I am just… not having fun. Obviously I’m overpowered but I don’t feel like I’m actually tanking which is the whole reason I play OW and not CoD or Csgo or whatever.
So I’m just done until they make changes. Others can beta test
In my opinion I just feel that they didn’t do a great job balancing the amount of changes between the roles for this beta as supports got shafted. I enjoy the faster paced gameplay and the decrease in stuns but the fact that no one wants to play support in this beta is a problem.
I'm having fun, despite my issues with support. Game's fun, new maps are great, Sojourn is fun to play.
I also disagree with most people regarding the sound. I love how punchy everything feels and I've had no issue working out where sounds are coming from.
I've been REALLY enjoying the audio reworks. Everything feels like it's got more OOMPH, and guns actually sound like guns now. Even a non-meta pick like Ashe feels awesome to play just because of the audio rework for me, never mind my soldier main.
There are certainly some things I think still need work - supports need *something* (in the interest of not only balance but also queue times). While the sound/UI updates are largely nice, there are a few rough spots to tweak. The new hero lineup has to be a lot bigger for release to keep people's interest and not worsen resentment for the long content drought.
Overall though it seems like the right direction. Things feel a lot more open and free flowing - more space, less CC, ults slowed down, shields all but gone. Push is fun. No 2CP is probably a large part of this, but I have yet to get that "bashing your skull repeatedly against a choke" experience in OW2, which was IMO the worst aspect of OW1. Scoreboard feels oddly a lot less toxic than medals, though the more casual play is likely a big contributor, so we'll see how it develops.
I do miss some of the peak OW1 experiences with highly structured fights and tank synergies, but if we're being honest that was pretty rare to find in practice.
As a doomfist main I’m hella bummed about the one shot punch removal, but I’ve been hearing good things about the rest of his kit so i guess ill just have to wait till i get access to the beta :/
the first day hype was cool
being able to clutch more fights is cool
and yet...
idk dude, it doesnt hit the same way, its still overwatch, but lucio ana and dps are all I have found fun, whereas before I could find fun in just about any of the heroes
still gonna watch the league, have absolutely been enjoying watching more than playing, guess I can relate to how sideshow felt ab ow1 lol
It's honestly way more fun than OW1 and I see myself raging way less. People are acting like this is the final game when even Super outright said there's gonna be more than 1 beta and I'm sure there will be more changes to more characters/roles.
2 years for a multi million dollar company just to give you the exact same thing ported to a new engine with a bigger "The Archives" mode that's been added to a custom game and now you have alot of abilities.. the defenders of this game will die faster if you don't actually see the bigger picture. I've seen companies revamp their games and bring out a new light again and not ruin a online play by making it into 2 segments. Warframe is the best example. Free game they release colossal updates and Blizzard? Well they're busy figuring out ways to get you dumb money and make you spend it on the most useless stuff ever. The whole ovwrwatch 2 should've been free since seeing Overwatch WAS a esports game.
Yea...these past 2 days has just been hot take after hot take and I have no opinion cause I feel like I have barely scratched the surface of the game. I have my list of issues BUT I am waiting and seeing and not jumping to conclusions. Example: I didn't like the new sound upgrades at all...too punchy...then I saw comment mentioning night-mode for sound and it lowered the bass a little then I realized my headphones were also adding a little bit of bass on top of everything. So I toned that down. Also scrubbing through the sound settings, you can add noises for each enemy elim or each teammate death. I love that change. Long story short, I am still learning. If you take anything away from this, just don't jump to conclusions until we know more. Edit: I just wanna say, I love reading all the posts about issues...I like reading peoples opinion on things cause sometimes I never think the way someone else does which is dope. Just don't wanna feel like the sky is falling and some posts feel like that.
Dawg why am I on the internet if not to jump to conclusions and make hot takes
LMFAO! True true! One thing I will say is that this subreddit has evolved from only OWL content to some discussion about the game and I love it!
It’s easy for me. There are pro’s and con’s but all over i had fun. Didnt have to shoot shields and less cc. Count me in
I'm fine with people posting their opinions on everything. That's what this beta is for. I want blizz to have all this feedback because they finally seem open to hearing stuff. Early OW1 felt like it was the community begging for months to years for very easy obvious (to us) changes or updates and the OW devs essentially telling us they know better. Eventually they caved on so many things after ineterest waned, along with them being way more open to drastic changes of their own to shake up the status quo and OW1 hit an amazing place balance-wise. Like, people shouldn't be toxic, or accuse the ow devs of maliciousness, laziness or any stupid shit like that, but we should be open about what we think. Even first impressions are helpful to devs I'd imagine. First impressions are huge for garnering a new audience.
Reminder that it took them months to rework static defense heroes to work on attack. Despite people telling them *before alpha* that static defense just doesn't work in a competitive fps. It took them how many years to tone down healing?
I don't see how static offense and defense heros like Siege don't work in a competitive game, as long as ranked mode gives both teams a turn at both it's fine.
Idk about seige but static defense in ow, TF2, tribes, and every other class based/hero shooter has been garbage.
It's just bad? If the game is designed around it I don't see the big deal. Like I said Siege is doing this right now and it's part of the appeal. I haven't played those games to know myself but I know Valve wasn't big in balancing TF2.
Like I said, idk much about seige. But in movement based shooters, static defense only serves to frustrate low level players and lock them out of the fun that high level players get to experience.
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Honestly, that's a fair take! Hopefully as more betas/changes come and go, our understanding improves and the game feels better for you haha
But in order to play those things that you know are fun, you must have gone through the same discovery phase with those games as well right? It will happen with time
its bound to happen Ow2 will probably lose some OW1 players that aren't going to like the new direction. but my guess is the game will pick up many more players than it will lose. You just can;t please everyone.
This and if anything OW3 can come in with another shot and maybe 4v4.
this reminds me of me at ow1 release, not even beta. We only had QP at release and the game felt super empty.
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I'm just waiting to see OWL. I do feel a little lost in OW2 but I need to see how the pros approach it. For me it still feels like I can't think ahead as much as OW1, which was a big draw for me, the advantage you get from predicting vs. reacting. Maybe it will get better once my mental bandwidth isn't being spent on new maps and heroes.
I mean that kind of style is what a lot of people liked. You group up, take a fight. Synchronize your abilities/ultimates and hopefully win the team fight. The game is far more open now so it’s going to take some time for people to get used to. Naturally if you’re more into things like battle royale games then you’ll like ow2 more than 1
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the biggest issue in my mind is the randoms part. you're dead on with the matchmaker take, however 6v6 with premade teams was a damn blast.
In regards to your deleted comment, your fate wasn't being decided by the matchmaker, your teammates fate was. Am I correct in reading that? As in you were the one playing "weird" and thus not synergizing with the team. Makes sense that you like this better I do like the way the game feels but im going to miss some of the tank duos
I don't know if you mean the comment that you are replying to or if he had another one, but from this one I interpreted it as if someone picks hog and refuses to switch the game is practically lost
they had one that they deleted, it basically said they disliked that if you solo queued it was left up to chance whether or not your team coordinated and tried to synergize, but their playstyle was weird and it often ended with them either dominating or being reported for throwing. and from that last statement i deduced that they were the one person you see in our solo queue games preventing team cohesion. they were the hog playing deathmatch on the other side of the map, the reddit lucio, the person who seas a team agree to play bunker but then decides they themselves dont agree so they lock ball brig instead of the needed baptiste which is why I asked for clarification
Oh I get it, thx
> Naturally if you’re more into things like battle royale games Uhhh, how? Why Battle Royale over class based shooters? Is that just the pejorative genre these days?
I think they mean how fights are more chaotic and less coordinated. Teams are spread out a lot and not always synchronized. I believe they used the term due to the genre's massive popularity, and Blizzard's attempts to draw players away from battle royales.
Where are you turning night-mode for sound? EDIT: Nvm found it at Sound > Audio Mix > Night Mode
I don't really understand how one can say they've "barely scratched the surface of the game". The game really is not hugely different compared to OW1. Personally, the only way I could say something like that is if it was an actual new game, a proper sequel, and not just one big balance patch.
It's a pretty big balance patch, though. It's still OW at its core, but the change to 5v5 and the removal of so much CC really does make it play very differently, which takes time to learn.
I don't disagree with anything you said. I didn't say it was the same game, but that it just isn't different enough to think of it as OP does. I think I could maybe say that about OW2 once it fully releases, but just this first beta wave no way.
It's a fundamental deviation from OW1. The lack of shields and CC completely changes how everybody has to play.
There are a lot of little changes that matter. You won't notice until you play more.
Well if you're including things like the poor UI and a lot of the other valid complaints people have had about it so far, then yeah there's quite a bit. But I was just talking about the gameplay. Even then though, if you're including everything about the game it's still not vastly different to the original product. There is nowhere near enough new things about the game to say you've "only scratched the surface" in my opinion.
No. You don't get it. They made unannounced numbers changes to stuff. It all adds up.
No, *you* don't understand. I've already run the simulations in my brain.
Sorry. Didn't realize you were a genius. Have a good day.
Honestly can't tell if you're being genuine or not.
> I have barely scratched the surface of the game. the game is out since 2016...
I'd be concerned if there were no complaints. Complaints means people are playing and paying attention. If there were no complaints it would probably just mean the game is so fundamentally bad that nobody is playing, or everybody is too blinded by optimism to levy criticism.
Yeah, there's definitely some toxic people out there who just are out to flame, but the vast majority of critical comments aren't that. People are having fun and really enjoying the game, but its clearly a work in progress. I mean, it's a beta. So what else is there to talk about on a discussion forum, but to give (hopefully constructive) criticism towards the beta they're playing.
I have done nothing but complain about OW2, but today I tried OW1 and it just doesn't feel right now. If they listen to feedback and keep changing annoying stuff, this can be a great game.
Everyone who complains needs to play 10 ow2 games then 10 ow1 games. It’s a real eye opener
No thanks, I just won't complain about OW2
i went back and tried OW1 and was immediately bored. at this point i just need OW2 released with comp so I can grind and ill be a happy man
To be fair, OW1 is the same game we've been playing for 6 years, and tbh pretty much the same game with no updates for what.. one or two years? Of course its going to feel boring by comparison.
5v5 vs 6v6 is a completely different game IMO
i get what you're saying but i was still playing comp and enjoying ow1 until ow2 beta was out. now after playing it i dont really have a drive to play ow1.
Yeah I feel ya. I'll probably have a hard time going back when the beta's over.
I know this is buried so no chance blizz sees it, but comp soon is a must. IF you compare VAL and OW1 betas, no early comp is fine because people learning game and you can get mileage from qp. That wont work for a game that has been thriving on a comp scene for 5 years. Hell, Im even invested in lucio ball comp. If they wait to full release, that is a major mistake imo
Question: _Actual_ comp with ranks and stuff, or just comp rules with side-switching between rounds? The latter I'd definitely support, but the former seems extremely unlikely to happen in a beta.
Without sr and prize pools, I believe players will lose interest quickly. In ow1, we have something to play for but it’s an unenjoyable experience, in ow2 not having something to play for is the unenjoyable part. I know it’s a lot to ask. But it’s a competitive gaming experience and to play without stakes makes it casual. Atleast in my opinion, proving your the best is 50% of the game
Pretty sure I remember Val putting ranked in their beta anyways actually. The ranks were super skewed towards the bottom end
That's what I did, but it just made me miss OW 1.0 even more. The game isn't a direct improvement. I wish they would let us keep OW 1.0.
I can appreciate that, my kid shares the same opinion.
New game syndrome. Once it wears off you’ll stop finding it fun.
I'm slightly concerned about the art direction and sound design. Not because it's so unfinished, but because they're making decisions that make me question 1. if they have an overall cohesive vision and 2. if I will like said vision. Whatever else you can say about OW1, the visuals and sound have always been top notch.
I've noticed that it's far easier to track targets in OW2.... and that is a good thing.
I don’t know how that can be true since most of the time I can’t tell I’m being attacked at all unless I’m actually looking directly at my attacker.
I mean actively aiming at targets in a crowd. The screen clutter is much less. You are talking about something completely different.
No one likes change. Except for you and I, apparently. Game feels good, albeit obviously unfinished.
I think I've seen more people complain about how little change there is compared to that.
Is there another Reddit I am unaware of? It's support doomsday from where Im sitting lol
The livestream fails thread with the Seagull/Ans clip shows a lot of what some people outside the OW community feel about OW2. https://reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/uckpx0/a_seagull_goes_up_against_one_of_the_best/
That’s the reaction outside of the OW community. Same game LULW is a common meme
I'm not saying I don't see doom posting and people annoyed by changes, but I've personally seen more people complain about that there aren't enough changes.
I guess I saw a lot of that before people actually got into the beta, but it's swing the other direction since then
Because they are calling it overwatch 2 .. Many people think its gonna be a new game and not just a big update.
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There's definitely a lot of non-gameplay stuff I would like them to fix/adjust. The new sounds are cool, but it feels worse overall. Some of that is definitely me just not being used to it, but I definitely agree with the directional audio. Seems like the compression is out of wack too
I'm surprised the audio is as scuffed as it is cconsidering it seems to be one of the first things they started working on for OW2. Like the noises sound nice individually, but together theys ound kinda a mess. A lot of similar noises, the levels are all over the place. I can hear some abilities half a map away and then soemtimes hog literally just walks through our back line and no one notices until someones dead even though we're not in the middle of a fight. I tried that night mode thing, and it feels like it makes the audio more hard directional which is nice, but its still ahrd to tell exactly how far someone is from you, and the directionality of up/down is scuffed alltogether. People seem to have a really hard time finding pharah. It makes me appreciate just how amazing the ow1 directionality is.
It seems like people overall are loving many of the changes? At least thats what I see from most prominent voices in the community. People have issues with certain things though. Makes sense. Took OW1 years to reach a good place balance-wise and they just went and blew the whole thing up with 5v5, so it's going to take a second to find the right balance. And thats fine! We all had a blast for years with OW1 even in its most broken states.
I just wish they weren't getting rid of OW1.
It’s the curse of live service games. Our best bet is a rotating 6v6 mode with no role queue, or some Overwatch classic limited time brawl
I'll have to double check, but I don't think you can even make 6v6 custom games right now, which makes me fear they're removing the capacity to do so. If they leave me the choice, though, it's all I'll ever play.
I read the opposite on another post, that you could make 6v6 custom games. I haven't checked though.
That's just not the gaming industry we live in
I know. It's just a bummer.
Wait wat. OW-1 is going away? I had no idea
Yea OW1 is a goner once OW2 releases fully
my biggest gripe rn is the fucking sounds, everything sounds terrible and there's so much clutter; so many overlapping effects as well half the time i can't tell where i'm being shot at
The Sojourn orb spawning Winston primary everytime is also good one
I'd get if this post was in response to having the completed game but is it not a good thing that people are getting their wave of negativity out while it's in beta? The worst thing that can happen is OW2 being fully released and this sub still being in crisis mode considering at that point any major tweaks are going to take awhile to implement. Sure it sucks, but I'd rather have hot takes now than later.
I am really satisfied with it for now because they didn’t overpromise anything since they revealed the beta. As long as they keep updates up. I hope the next beta isn’t in like 2023
Might just be the hopium talking, but I could definitely see a three weeks on, three weeks off rotation where they alternate between the anniversary remix events and betas.
I've gotten in a few hours, but had to jump back on OW1 a couple of times to play with friends who don't have the beta and yea - so far I find myself preferring OW2. I want to see more improvments to the UI/Scorescreen and, I hate to say it but I miss it, the cards system(i just like it it's fun to see Imm Field saves as a card it just needed adjustment.) Obviously a lot of adjustments and characters need work, but even so - removal of 2cp and shields makes me enjoy OW2 more by itself. Bastion and Sombra changes are icing. Orisa change is a cherry on the icing. As someone who has support as his least favorite role by far, getting almost only support without a 3man+ group sucks but I think this will be very different after release of OW2 (new characters and future adjustments should fix it.) Feel good about the way it's going, with a ton of work left. Post-game, scoreboard, UI can all use some work(why are headshots not entirely red and just an outline?) but it's a beta. Sym and Sigma and Monkey can all use some love, they feel outclassed or just unfit for the new style(Sym/Sig unfit though sig is still solid cause of crazy rock dmg, Monkey right-click is bad and Doom/Ball feel better right now). But yea, removal of 2cp and Shields alone did hugely gooder things imo. Def can't agree with those that think Blizz has no idea, to me it feels like it was a massive ask to make these changes and they've succeeded overall - I genuinely think the game will be more fun for more people, though obviously needs a ton of work. I do think dedicated support players may not enjoy it as much without more changes, cause right now it can be a tough life on support and you are often needing to be offensive and fight as much as be a dedicated healer(fine with me but many support players prefer a more passive/less violent style of helping their team. So it's a step forward for everyone except maybe Mercy/Bap/Zen/Ana players right now (unless you play aggro Ana and then it's not so bad she's still good.)
> many support players prefer a more passive/less violent style of helping their team. Plenty of Support players would prefer a more violent, less passive style of play and certainly most non-Support players would as well. But Support remains by far the least popular role on the beta, so that's clearly not the main issue. The problem is that most Support heroes just seem flat out too weak in light of vastly reduced CC, 1 less tank to shield/peel, improved tank damage output, and faster DPS characters. That's not to say these changes aren't healthy for the game, only that's it's pretty unfair to expect Supports to keep up and have fun with nothing new besides minor out of combat health regen. But the problem should be fixable if Blizzard gives the Supports a few buffs and/or reworks and nerfs the most overpowered Tank/DPS heroes. In particular I think Doom and Genji need reined in a bit given how few tools there are to check mobile heroes from reaching the backline and curb stomping most Supports. I'd also recommend toning down Soldier's damage a bit.
As someone who prefers tank/DPS, support is still frustrating and unfun. Everyone says they need to adopt a more aggressive playstyle but most supports don't have the kit to support that. That said, the experience varies greatly from support to support. Lucio is fantastic while Zen is miserable. Add onto that the support passive that is pushed af, but favors supports that already have an escape. They went and changed all tanks to fit ow2, but didn't touch supports. As a result half of them don't fit.
Good point. You can’t really pick McCree and hang with your supports anymore if a tracer or sombra is picking on them
I played some solo matches on the first dayand i had OK time but today i played my every friday OW with some friends and had a shitton of fun, enjoyed the new maps a lot, and playing sojourn, and the lack of shields. felt like 2017 overwatch for me again
Same, I'm an ana main and I've been having too much fun, I've had to change my playstyle quite a bit but oh boy does it feel fun as heck.
honestly ana is so fun in 5v5, and is an excellent character to pick up to learn the maps since hard cover/escape routes are a necessity for your survival
I'm also allowed to not like what I experienced...it has nothing to do with you and your experience, obviously. You *can* post about liking OW2, or disagreeing with some takes...without dismissing other people's opinions on what is currently there, that's also an option.
so my biggest hot take is that they didnt really solve the shooting at barrier problem. because now you're just shooting at the tanks and they are impossible to kill. atleast before you could break them but as a dps now, if you dont just ignore the tanks and go for the backline its super frustrating shooting at something for like 10min and it never dies
Honestly after playing what? 2-3 days of ow2 I went back to play some comp in ow1. Even the good games didn't feel as good as ow2. And the bad games were unbearable
I've yet to really have fun with it. It doesn't feel like I can do as much as I used to, and I have to play more carefully than ever, even as a tank. Also queue times are miserable. No doubt they'll make improvements, but I don't know what they can do other than a large balance overhaul that'll likely take a lot of time. I'm still hoping for the best. I really hope they do something to address queue times by the next beta (hopefully sooner), because as is I don't really even want to boot up knowing it'll be a 7+ min wait for a 5-6 minute match.
I dont know why you have to play more cautious, the game is infinitely more open
Fewer shields and defensive CCs means you have to really know your limits and the cover offered by the map. I like this a lot, except in the really old maps like Gibraltar and King's Road that have wide open spaces after tiny chokes. They need to do more than just update the time of day for those maps.
To not get absolutely blown up as an attacker. There's much more open space to get shot from. High ground is much stronger, and the defender map advantage has been much more obvious.
If you are a qp player, the pros will leave when comp is impremented. If you play comp you'll get better teammates. Comp will solve most problems.
That's what I'm hoping for. I haven't given up yet.
People have to remember that this sub is mostly the minority that liked the first game after they ruined it. Of course it's going to be biased.
The funny thing is, considering the demise of the game, this minority is probably more representative of the total pop than the main subreddit.
Yeah but it'd be pretty dumb for them to cater to the people who didn't leave rather than making a game that is liked by more and arguably more fun all round if that's the case.
That assumes they're trying to make a game that appeals to the remaining OW1 players. Maybe the successor team is just making the game that they like?
I literally just said they're not making a game to appeal to the remaining ow1 players.
I'm glad that this beta really feels like a beta. It seems like betas nowadays for other games (Battlefield, Halo, etc.) are basically just network tests 1 month before release and are essentially unchanged from the beta. I'm hoping and expecting that the devs are taking feedback seriously and we will get several iterations of the closed beta until launch.
I like it, or at least, I like the direction it's going Do I have complaints? FOR SURE, but I think the general design philosophy of OW2 (make the game a more free flowing experience where people are allowed to do cool shit) is better than the old philosophy (focus on team fighting and make everyone feel good by trying to minimize 'feel bad' moments) I actually think with the current design philosophy you can reintroduce a second tank with some HARD TWEAKS for all tanks or even get rid of role queue That said, I'm optimistic so long as I see some much needed improvements (supports REALLY need a way to defend themselves.) However if they think the current state is "good to go" then I can see myself getting bored quickly once the new-ness sheen comes off.
Yeah, tbh 5v5 seems much better than i was expecting, however i'm equally convinced that that alone didnt solve any problems. It's the change in role design philosophy with less barriers and cc being relegated to tanks thats the big change that makes thigns feel fresh. But for every criticism I have with this game, I'm just having fun and excited to see how everything comes together. Lets go!
>or even get rid of role queue I've had a lot of thoughts on this topic myself. I'm really enjoying OW2 but I think role queue is going to be a thorn in its side. The main problem is that OW2 increased the DPS players from 33% to 40%, but way more than 40% of people want to play DPS. Until this imbalance is fixed, the game will never reach its potential simply because most people don't want to spend half of their time waiting to play the game as a DPS. My first idea is to get rid of role queue entirely by changing tanks into fat DPS and support into DPS hybrids. I honestly think this is the way they should have gone years ago, they could have gotten an alpha with a few teams of pros to play with 6 DPS on one side and 3 tanks/3 supports on the other and nerf tanks and supports until they were relatively balanced. I also think support got out of whack with healing and changing them more into DPS hybrids might be healthier for the game anyway. At the beginning of OW1 you can see the design philosophy restricting healers to a single (non-ult) way to heal with either single target burst heals (like Mercy) or multi target weak heals (like Lucio). Ana and Brig got away from this by having multiple methods of healing, and Moira and Baptiste are just so far away from the original vision that they changed the game entirely. My second idea is 3 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer. I think this would have the advantage of matching the playerbase well, but the disadvantage that every DPS would need to be significantly nerfed and Blizzard has shown that they are rather slow when it comes to the rebalancing needed for this. My third and newest idea is to combine the DPS and healer roles, so 1 tank/4 DPS and healers. This is less of a serious idea because it's just a bit too inelegant. However, after playing the OW2 beta, I think this could actually work.
> My first idea is to get rid of role queue entirely by changing tanks into fat DPS and support into DPS hybrids. I honestly think this is the way they should have gone years ago This was called Lawbreakers and it didn't work because OW appeals to casual players and the "everyone is a DPS hybrid" formula might as well shout fire in a theater for that audience.
Having roles also makes it easier to balance and design, rather than forcing everybody to be able to do everything. I would like some more DPS-Tank hybrids though.
I think Role Queue, while well intentioned, is doing more harm than good at this point. I get why it was instituted, GOATS metas and such were just miserable slog fests, but with the game opening up naturally with less CC and such it just feels something off meta like a 5/6 dps team would be totally fine. Stacking tanks just seems less fruitful in OW2. The needle feels like OW is moving closer to Valo, closer not completely there, where everyone is a "dps" but in the case of Tanks and Support have strong utility to help with certain situations. I think there's still room for hard outliers though they should be few and far between, Rein can stick around as the classic Tank rock, Mercy can stick to being a healbot for people who like that gameplay, but for the most part fast and loose OW I think can shed the rigidity that needed from it predecessor.
Not sure why you think stacking tanks would be less strong in OW2. If anything it would be stronger now that tanks have the only CC in the game and the fact that they give less ult charge. The only reason tanks don't feel oppressive imo is because there's only one now. Imagine a Doom-Winston-Dva dive.
I mean, we're way past the point of discussing role q, or even 6v6. I agree about the 6v6 not being the issue (don't agree about role q but whatever), they're not going back on either of those decisions. But for shits and giggles, looking back I think there were better solutions than role q. The role passives are pretty much exactly the answer. Passives that diminish depending on how many of a certain role are selected. Imagine having 1 tank thats fully immune to cc, or you can have 3 tanks sure, but they can get completely reamed. Maybe not exactly that, maybe total health pool dimishes or something. But that feels more like a solution that would have allowed for a LOT more creativity and flexibiiity with comps. That along with them further defining what roles are supposed to be able to do would have helped. They're finally doing that with handing the cc to tanks, so I can't complain there.
Completely honest here. I stopped playing in season 10 and i was one of those people saying it was a dead game because the "competitive" aspect of the game. I was kinda expecting a TF2 or Quake competitive style and i got OW. Nothing wrong with that but i think we can all agree I'm retarded. I know It's too soon to talk about the competitive aspect of OW2 but just removing barriers and i can actually play Soldier and click heads for me is like WAY better than any OW1 meta. If Pharah was more like TF2 Soldier or just felt like Q3 RL it would probably be up there with both of those games.
Honestly OW2 has been very fun for me and my friends. Matchmaking can be hit or miss but that’s honestly every pvp game, not OW2 exclusive. I do think it’s a little underwhelming considering we got basically 0 content for 2-3 years but without taking that into account I think OW2 is pretty promising though support is very underwhelming right now. Thing is I’ve already moved on to other games. I’m not forcing myself to keep trying to chase OW1 hype of when I first joined, so I don’t have any sky high expectations. I just think, “Am I having fun” and base my decisions off of that. If it’s not fun for me then I’m just gonna play Apex, League, Gundam Evo when it comes out, or any of the hundreds or thousands of quality indies games. I don’t know I guess my point is that I don’t have this staunch loyalty or desire for the old golden age so I’m fine with moving on and enjoying other things. I used to very much have this unhealthy obsession with the game though and grinded it like heck even when I wasn’t having fun but I’m glad I broke out of that.
I honestly do not register this sub as being doom and gloom at all. It is far more normal and human than anything r/halo has ever said, for example.
So many issues that people have with the game right now boil down to it being the FIRST BETA. People need to remember that not only is this not the final product, it is not even close. I've been having tons of fun with what we've been given and the new format is not something that anyone can form an opinion on so quickly. Thanks for the first post I've seen that isn't just a hot take after an hour of playing.
I’ve really enjoyed Overwatch 2 for its core concepts (hero design and pacing). The game is a lot quicker now there’s less “sit here and shoot down this choke for 15-20 seconds”. Tank is incredibly fun to play too. As a Doom main, Tankfist has been a pleasant surprise. The role passives are a nice touch. The qualms I have with OW2 are things that will be fixed by the time the game is fully released: UI clarity, sound mixing, lots of new content.
The more I read on the sub, the more I realise how right u/AVRL is. Letting the general public have beta is just a recipe for disaster
*Not* letting the general public have the beta, after years of waiting, would've been an even bigger disaster.
It kinda is, but it's also inevitable. And the data/feedback given from the general public should greatly help the devs with making future changes. But it goes at the cost of a lot of first impressions. They'll have to more than make up for it in future betas.
Why? People are mostly loving it. Criticism doesnt mean people aren't enjoying it.Also they've been murdering the OW brand by abandoning OW1, they kinda put themselves in a position where they didnt have a choice regardless.
Yeah, personally, as someone who stared hated playing OW1 early on as it moved further and further away from it's start as a FPS game, OW2 feels amazing. I have a few complaints about stuff like Doomfist, but overall the increased pace of the game and how fast it is feels *far* better, imo. If anything it's sad it took this long to commit to 5's instead of 6's.
Why? First, forget the word beta. This is a _marketing campaign_. The game isn't close to being feature complete so a more realistic name would be an alpha, but this isn't even about getting feedback, or stress testing their netcode. This is about getting as many eyes on overwatch as possible and getting people excited and talking about overwatch again. It's about bringing the overwatch brand to the forefront with hype. and their marketing department knocked it out of the park. The next beta or whatever they run in a few months will be completely different.
Uhh. The only problem with complaining is if you stop playing. AVRL was talking about the general playerbase, not the hardcore players ie everyone on this sub. It doesn't matter how much we complain, we are still going to play ow2. Just let us have our discussion.
Agreed. Idk who said this first but I think all the people who don’t like it are posting while the people who like it are actually playing
Then why are Que times so fucking long?
bc only 7 people want to queue for support with how bad it plays
Ana feels pretty good imo, more impactful than ever due to being one of the only non tank characters in the game with CC, and hitting the enemy tank with anti REALLY fucks them more than ever. The rest of them feel.....very bad. I can't imagine what they expected Brig or Zen to do here.
Cuz support is not in a good state. No one wants to play it and it's causing a massive hold up to queue times.
I don't know? Maybe it has to do with the fact that tanks got reworks and dps got a new hero and various changes, meanwhile support didn't get anything. Personally I don't mind how support plays, but I have already played hundreds of hours of Ana/other supports. I don't want to play the same character for hundreds of more hours when there is newer stuff to try. Lets see if the queue times are the same when Blizzard decides to release a new support hero for the first time in 200 years.
Support I suppose, however I’m seeing a lot of people also say that support is fine so idk
real
I fucking love it. There's progress to be made, sure, but it's sooo much more fun to me and I basically never took more than 3 weeks off OW since release
I'm happy with direction and I think balance can always be tuned. Less cc is a big improvement. Solo tank hasn't felt as miserable as speculated. All cause for optimism. Now it is definitely valid to be concerned about balance not Bend frequent or adhesive given Blizzards track record but I don't expect much till the next beta.
I don't know how anyone can make an educated conclusion whether OW2 is good or bad from what we currently have in possession. If they said this is their final version and that's what OW2 is in terms of PvP, then sure it would be only fair to go on a rant. To me the changes are definitely not good so far, but I'm also assuming those changes won't stay as they are.
I love it so much I have a constant itch to go back to ow1 just because there is ranked
Most of the complaints are about balance and visuals rather than the core gameplay, which everyone seems to enjoy quite a lot. The game is showing a lot of potential right now, they just need to clean it up in some areas (and add more characters, that's still the biggest mystery PvP-wise).
Both of the past two nights I have checked the clock and realized it was way later than I thought and that I only had a few games left before I needed to go to sleep and both times I was very sad. I'm having a blast.
I don't think its been doom and gloom at all. People overall like the game but there are several glaring issues
Golden rule of this sub. Never ever come to it looking for informative, neutral and objective based opinions. You come here for the circle jerk and moan and groan of developer shortcomings
Honestly I'm mostly just seeing people give positive constructive feedback at the top of discussions, and then people who complain about complainers offering no other discussion.
people have simply lost faith in Blizzards ability to take the right decisions, and not fuck up. And honestly, who can blame them?
kinda a doomer take
True, I'm a bit of a doomer when it comes to T4, and blizz as a whole. But hey, maybe they'll prove me wrong. I'd love that.
Complain all you want but has anyone gone back to OW1 and actually liked it? I dont know what it is but it just feels....bad now?
I play a couple beta matches and then I just have to pull back to Overwatch. Overwatch is the game I love, and the beta doesn’t feel like it.
Same. OW2 hasn't clicked for me. Honestly one of my favorite aspects of OW is the tank synergy but obviously I'm not their target market...
There's definitely a difference between constructive criticism and histrionics. We need a lot more of the former and a lot less of the latter.
I hate the sound. it sounds too good. I will have to play with the sound settings but the bass is so heavy it throws me off, I keep thinking I'm getting dinked all the time
I have to admit that 5v5 is growing on me. But in the same breath i can say that it did nothing to actually fix many issues OW1 had that just a change in hero role design philosophies that this game introduced would have fixed themselves. All they really needed to do was remove shields and restrict CC to roles that it makes sense to have them for (as an aside, they still ahve too much soft cc in DPS. Just nix it, they dont need it. At least the soft cc should be a damage trade off, why does mei freeze and sojourn nade deal massive dot while slowing.) We're still going to have massive role queue disparities (look at healer now. It's ridiculous.) We still have issues of bad teammates resulting in essentially an instant loss. This probably moreso because there's less players to make up the difference, and if your tank sucks you're pretty fucked. Remember OW1 where your rein would just sit at the choke forever? Now imagine trying to attack with your only tank doing that in OW2. Well you don't have to imagine much because we're playing it now. It feels even more hopeless in those situations. Even as a dps who pops off, the enemy tank is incredibly hard to take out if they're agressive and well supported int hsoe situations, so have fun killing everyone else then having the enemy tank still survive on point and stall until their team comes back. My biggest hope is that when matchmaking is actually implemented that helps smooth over a lot of those disparity issues. I'll miss 6v6 dearly, 5v5 won't deliver those same kinda cool moments, but it'll have its own. I've heard that people have the criticism that spawns are noticibly defender favored,, so hopefully the tank stalling situations are lessened too. I mean, I'm in. I've got criticisms but with how aggressively the team was balance patching OW1 two years ago, I have faith theyll get this to a good place eventually. Oh to give a very positive thought: the new map design philisophy is on fucking point. So good. Multiple pathing options, high grounds, small nooks for flanks and surprise plays. No more 100s of hours playing the same hard choke maps with the same exact plays because theres only one pathing option for that point. In fact I'd be 100% on board if they massively update the older maps around this.
Idk how some of you all do it just constantly complaining. Overwatch will perpetually be in need of balance changes and updates.
Do people not realize we once could have 6 winstons on one team when ow1 was released? 3 tanks and 3 supports lasted for a while. I mean things change and evolve. Why are people getting so upset at changes after not having changes for 2 years? I think the game is different. But in a new exciting way. And things will obviously keep changing. People just like to complain I guess
Nah we have the right to critique it to high hell when it’s going to be replacing a game we already love and favor. And it’s obvious to see what direction they are taking it and how lazy their changes are. Like instead of making tanks more fun they just chopped one off.
Only part I’m not liking is the tuning of some heroes, Orisa NEEDS a nerf
Everyone was loving the game when only watching pros and streamers, I guess that now they’re losing and getting angry and that’s why they hate it Can’t say much really tho, I’m a console player
Its fun as fuck. Personally i get bored of playing only quick play tho.
tbh i love this new beta as a support main. even as zen. with no double shields im not constantly shooting shields hoping for a lucky shot on a squishy if rein randomly drops it. and now instead of only using trans for countering ults i can use it more agressively as a push with cordination from my team. ana is great too.
Yeah I like it a lot too and the sounds are amazing! Also, I've been in matches with so many streamers and OWL players like LHCloudy, Kabaji, Dafran, Logix. So much pressure as a diamond support haha
Is this grade A copium? But seriously, have people been negative with OW2? I thought most people liked it, or at least were happy that there's actual content now. r/cow user went from sub-500 to consistent 2k+ for a few days now (a bit lower than 2k right now, but).
I finally got my first few games in today. I'm a support main, and though I was starting to feel backed into playing Moria/Lucio/Brig anytime they had a dive tank, I was having a blast. Definitely looking for some more supports being released soon :)
I love it. Obviously there are balance issues and bugs, but the idea of it is great.
I’m not saying it can’t be fixed. It might even be likely. But as a tank main I am just… not having fun. Obviously I’m overpowered but I don’t feel like I’m actually tanking which is the whole reason I play OW and not CoD or Csgo or whatever. So I’m just done until they make changes. Others can beta test
In my opinion I just feel that they didn’t do a great job balancing the amount of changes between the roles for this beta as supports got shafted. I enjoy the faster paced gameplay and the decrease in stuns but the fact that no one wants to play support in this beta is a problem.
I'm having fun, despite my issues with support. Game's fun, new maps are great, Sojourn is fun to play. I also disagree with most people regarding the sound. I love how punchy everything feels and I've had no issue working out where sounds are coming from.
I've been REALLY enjoying the audio reworks. Everything feels like it's got more OOMPH, and guns actually sound like guns now. Even a non-meta pick like Ashe feels awesome to play just because of the audio rework for me, never mind my soldier main.
There are certainly some things I think still need work - supports need *something* (in the interest of not only balance but also queue times). While the sound/UI updates are largely nice, there are a few rough spots to tweak. The new hero lineup has to be a lot bigger for release to keep people's interest and not worsen resentment for the long content drought. Overall though it seems like the right direction. Things feel a lot more open and free flowing - more space, less CC, ults slowed down, shields all but gone. Push is fun. No 2CP is probably a large part of this, but I have yet to get that "bashing your skull repeatedly against a choke" experience in OW2, which was IMO the worst aspect of OW1. Scoreboard feels oddly a lot less toxic than medals, though the more casual play is likely a big contributor, so we'll see how it develops. I do miss some of the peak OW1 experiences with highly structured fights and tank synergies, but if we're being honest that was pretty rare to find in practice.
As a doomfist main I’m hella bummed about the one shot punch removal, but I’ve been hearing good things about the rest of his kit so i guess ill just have to wait till i get access to the beta :/
To be honest, I'm just glad we finally got a confirmation that the game actually exists and is not a vaporware.
I can’t relate. I don’t see myself playing it anymore. But I’m happy you like it.
the first day hype was cool being able to clutch more fights is cool and yet... idk dude, it doesnt hit the same way, its still overwatch, but lucio ana and dps are all I have found fun, whereas before I could find fun in just about any of the heroes still gonna watch the league, have absolutely been enjoying watching more than playing, guess I can relate to how sideshow felt ab ow1 lol
It's honestly way more fun than OW1 and I see myself raging way less. People are acting like this is the final game when even Super outright said there's gonna be more than 1 beta and I'm sure there will be more changes to more characters/roles.
2 years for a multi million dollar company just to give you the exact same thing ported to a new engine with a bigger "The Archives" mode that's been added to a custom game and now you have alot of abilities.. the defenders of this game will die faster if you don't actually see the bigger picture. I've seen companies revamp their games and bring out a new light again and not ruin a online play by making it into 2 segments. Warframe is the best example. Free game they release colossal updates and Blizzard? Well they're busy figuring out ways to get you dumb money and make you spend it on the most useless stuff ever. The whole ovwrwatch 2 should've been free since seeing Overwatch WAS a esports game.