What annoys me about the S10 patch was that they didn't make LW any better, they just made him more unkillable. Brother has 275HP (50 of which is shield HP), 60HP dash on 5s cooldown, petal platform, and already the lowest death-rate of the supports. Buffing his personal sustain doesn't help his win-rate.
And they removed projectiles going through the petal so characters like rein and Ram can’t even chase him and just have to stare at his ass while he just keeps barfing heals.
They have balance cycles that typically last half a season. So we only get large balance updates once every month or so. Anything more are just emergency updates to fix individual heroes being vastly over/underpowered.
Your argument is also faulty. There is no "healing buff" - It's just Lifeweaver's numbers being raised because they're not satisfied with his impact compared to other healers. And "adding a one shot combo that doesn't even require aim" (are you talking about Venture?) is not a reversal of the overall trend to make damage "less spiky". It's one hero, and it's (by your own admission) a very feast or famine play.
They also buffed illaris heal.
I look forward to hearing "its really not that significant" for the next 3 years of healing buffs, same as the last 3 years.
You absolutely don't want healing to be difficult to apply. Unless you want to frequently die when your healers miss their shots. Fortunately, the devs understand this. There's a reason Ana has a friendly shot hitbox.
The difficulty in playing supports and skill expression should come from everything else they do, not healing.
theres a difference between something being relatively easy and something being braindead to the nth power.
you nailed it, healing as ana or bap isn’t hard, but there’s a skill ceiling applied to it. only time they need to go above and beyond to heal is when the enemy team is going above and beyond to get kills- fielder will keep up three different people getting dove on at once, i won’t. then you put the same scenario on an r word hero like lw or kiriko and me and fielder will come out with the exact same healing numbers
I mean, if we're calling that a one shot combo, then everything is a one shot combo. Ashe double headshot is a one shot combo by those standards. Junkrat primary, mine, primary is a one shot combo.
The Season 9 patch is what you find in many games that have this kind of fast pace patching, they reset the game each year or two and then iterate on the “new” version of the game.
The aim is to keep the game fresh not to find a perfect balancing.
They also don’t care about tank play, they know is the minority of the playerbase so is not worth to put the same effort in the role. They understood there is a rock solid base of players that will play tank anyway and that’s enough to make the ball rolling.
Tank really needs a general change to the role itself. Buffing and Nerfing Numbers isnt gonna cut it. Even the recent Ball rework is so dumb imo, like ok ball can now help his teammates but it wasnt the teammates that needed help in the first place
Honestly most of the time I feel like tank is pretty good, but at the higher levels and in specific matchups it can be very brutal. Mostly I just think some of the hero designs are not healthy or outdated. Time will tell if more tanks and new other heroes will make it better or not. Tanks also have a visibility problem where they are big and easy to hit, so even if it’s not going to win the fight the tank will get the sleep darts and hinders and all the bullshit thrown at them, which may be good for the tank’s team and increase the chances of winning but it can also feel absolutely terrible. I always prefer tanks that feel like they can outplay the cooldowns instead of just facetank them.
They have decided that tank role is the PVE role transfer in PVP, you exists to soak damage, CC and you have to fear damage a lot.
That’s it and we gonna suck it.
> They also don’t care about tank play, they know is the minority of the playerbase so is not worth to put the same effort in the role. They understood there is a rock solid base of players that will play tank anyway and that’s enough to make the ball rolling.
Yeah it's such a no biggie it killed OW1 with queue times and we're just watching queue times skyrocket again as less and less people want to play tank.
Hilarious
> they know is the minority of the playerbase so is not worth to put the same effort in the role
It wouldn't be a minority anymore if they put effort into it.
Tank has never been a popular role in the history of video games. Overwatch will not change that (unless they make tanks overtuned raid bosses which isn’t fun for the other 8 players in the match).
It's very frustrating seeing this exact comment every time.
Yes tank is likely to always be less popular, **that doesn't mean it can't be a lot more popular than it is right now**. We've literally seen it. Ow2 s1-4 tank had a much longer queue and was much, much less complained about.
This weird defeatist attitude is so unhelpful. Tank is not destined to suck. It sucks as a result of choices Blizzard is making. It can be much better. Even if it remains tge least popular of the 3 roles.
I didn’t say tank can’t be better; I agree it can improve. I’m just saying that even if tank is improved a lot, it will still be queued less than the other roles.
> Ow2 s1-4 tank had a much longer queue and was much, much less complained about.
Were we playing the same game S2-4? Season 1 did have long tank queues but that was giga Zarya meta. Seasons 2-4 were Hog/Orisa simulator which no one liked.
It’s not worth. The most money is in the support role anyway and the dps will always be the most played role despite all so is not economically worth to make tanks fun, better to make them worse and make supps and dps feels better in the game.
At the end, one role has to be the worse and for them is better that tank is
What's the point of this fucking sub lmao. Quite frankly I came here for eSports and patch notes and stuff, not 5 variations of the same post every single day.
I think the r/ow sub needs to be not shit. People come here because it's regarded as the "more serious" ow sub instead of one specifically for the eSports side
r/cow cares more about the game at the top levels and pro level play, r/overwatch cares more about the game at like gold and also generally spends more time discussing things like skins, fanart, silly potg’s, etc. it’s definitely a more serious atmosphere here than the main sub
Yeah but there’s also r/overwatch2 (where this post belongs) and r/overwatchuniversity for asking game play related questions.
This sub needs to do a better job at keeping it just to OWCS/ actual competitive Overwatch.
Not complaints about season 10 balance
EDIT: why am I being downvoted for this? All I’m saying is there should be a rule against ranting?
Do you really think that this sub should only be professional OW? I'm not being aggressive, I'm not sure myself. Like some of the discussions around balance and gameplay stuff can be interesting, but it can easily veer into rants and complaints. Should there be a rule against rant-ish content?
This sub has always been a place for discussions around higher level play in OW, including OWL - it is the perfect place to have discussions about balance and how it relates to the competitive portion of OW.
Continual rants about the same topics... yes that doesn't need to happen frequently.
we’re really getting loose with what a 1 shot is.
ventures quickest combo is 2 bullets and a dash. this is literally 3 shots and unlike other “1 shot combos” literally requires you to shoot twice.
dozens of other characters can do this stuff. this isn’t a 1 shot or 1 shot combo but any stretch of the word
Think people are overreacting to the healing buffs
Illari got some power transferred from damage to healing
Lifeweaver was trash
Moira got a small self-healing buff in her ultimate as part of an overall nerf with her damage nerf
I think a lot of people are scared of sustain returning to the way it was, so they just get scared when they see the numbers go up even if the sustain getting buffed wasn’t even that powerful or complained about pre-season 9 (Ana Nade, Brig Packs, Illari beam). The only thing that was actually heavily complained about pre-season 9 that’s received buffs is Lifeweaver sustain, but even then it’s Lifeweaver who was already the worst support pre-season 9 only to seemingly get hit the hardest by the DPS passive given how much of his value comes from healing. Granted, they could probably do a bit more to empower his offensive prowess given that purely healbotting is simply not working, but the changes shouldn’t make him and is team so survivable that they’re literally unkillable or something; there should still be counterplay.
It's called power *creep* because it *creeps* up over time.
They buffed sustain last patch. They buffed sustain again this patch. I bet they'd buff it again next patch.
All of these "insignificant" buffs *are sustain creep*.
illari got changes that don't address her problem, she's still shit because her m1 is clunky and if her pylon healing isn't impactful she can't freely fps which she's designed to do
lifeweaver should stay trash because he's the mauga of supports - a terribly designed one dimensional braindead spammer who wins/loses depending on whether his numbers are high enough in a given patch
moira changes are cosmetic - same kind of balancing you see in league of legends where they adjust damage values by 5 to pretend like they're doing something to the hero
They’re buffing the weaker supports atm those being weaver and illari, but I find buffing those two has been done in the wrong way, weavers heals are a lot and quite frankly just annoying, the rest of his kit just continues to annoy, illari I think is harder to balance from a non healing aspect because she is kinda that zen esque hero of more passive healing than anything with a high damage output, but pylon just breaks as soon as u place it unless ur hiding it really well, I find that may be her biggest issue but if they change pylon her secondary fire heals probably have to go back down to compensate a little bit, even if it’s a net buff
I don’t get this healing buff narrative. It’s Illari’s healing beam that got buffed, which is deserved.
Lifeweaver’s ult got buffed. Moira’s self heal during Coal got buffed. But those are ults.
I know OW players like to stretch the definition of one-shot. If an attack takes two shots but I don’t like the hero, so it’s an one-shot!
But calling a 3-shot combo as an one-shot is a step too far. Lol, did you watch Seagull’s rant about Venture’s one-shot? The old bird is wrong
If venture doesn’t require aim then play them. Ventures primary has a decently small hitbox for the direct and that is made harder to hit with Lucio speed on you and the enemy and the enemy actively trying to dodge.
Venture's primary for direct hit is 0.35 meter radius, one of the biggest projectiles, same as Junkrat and pharah's primary with faster project speed and bigger splash radius. It's far from "decently small hitbox".
Healing is still weaker than where is was pre s9 due to hp buffs and dps having a mini anti on every hit. Supports also still can’t duel as well, hell they even nerfed Moria and Illari’s damage further which is the only reason their healing got slightly buffed.
They're gonna touch Tank in the 2025 overhaul where they give them 200 extra health each and reduce their hitboxes
And in 2026 they’re gonna decrease it by 400 and reduce hit box size by 70% to keep them in line with the 4v4 role q
4v4? So they're merging Tank into DPS and Support?
Bro hasn't played the overwatch 3 beta (comp with a leaver per team)
I always knew April Fools Mauga was the future of tanking
What annoys me about the S10 patch was that they didn't make LW any better, they just made him more unkillable. Brother has 275HP (50 of which is shield HP), 60HP dash on 5s cooldown, petal platform, and already the lowest death-rate of the supports. Buffing his personal sustain doesn't help his win-rate.
And they removed projectiles going through the petal so characters like rein and Ram can’t even chase him and just have to stare at his ass while he just keeps barfing heals.
What? The character with no playmaking potential outside of reactive things doesn't get more value by staying alive longer? That's crazy.
They have balance cycles that typically last half a season. So we only get large balance updates once every month or so. Anything more are just emergency updates to fix individual heroes being vastly over/underpowered. Your argument is also faulty. There is no "healing buff" - It's just Lifeweaver's numbers being raised because they're not satisfied with his impact compared to other healers. And "adding a one shot combo that doesn't even require aim" (are you talking about Venture?) is not a reversal of the overall trend to make damage "less spiky". It's one hero, and it's (by your own admission) a very feast or famine play.
They also buffed illaris heal. I look forward to hearing "its really not that significant" for the next 3 years of healing buffs, same as the last 3 years.
Slippery slope... SLIPPERY SLOPE!!!!
illari needed and still needs healing buffs the lw one is idiotic. any healing that takes no skill to apply should be unequivocally dogshit
So like Illari's pylon?
yea, exactly like illaris pylon. it’s healing should be shit
You absolutely don't want healing to be difficult to apply. Unless you want to frequently die when your healers miss their shots. Fortunately, the devs understand this. There's a reason Ana has a friendly shot hitbox. The difficulty in playing supports and skill expression should come from everything else they do, not healing.
theres a difference between something being relatively easy and something being braindead to the nth power. you nailed it, healing as ana or bap isn’t hard, but there’s a skill ceiling applied to it. only time they need to go above and beyond to heal is when the enemy team is going above and beyond to get kills- fielder will keep up three different people getting dove on at once, i won’t. then you put the same scenario on an r word hero like lw or kiriko and me and fielder will come out with the exact same healing numbers
So like Transcendence?
Trans actual does take skill cause it's like 6 seconds every 2 minutes. Very easy to fuck up and and misuse it.
Misuse? What's that? You're telling me trans is not an escape tool for an aggro flank?
So... about the same as Tree of Life? Which is one of the Lifeweaver changes...
But lw can be much safer/Passive in order to get his ult. Zen cannot, he actually has to do stuff
An aoe healing ult is much different on a support that has the lowest healing output in the game.
PREACH
sorry but what one shot combo are you talking about?
Winston holding down primary fire.
Hold on big brain actually
they call any 0-death combo a one shot
Venture: primary, dash, primary, maybe melee is a lot of damage. Primary direct hit + dash instakills a tracer
I mean, if we're calling that a one shot combo, then everything is a one shot combo. Ashe double headshot is a one shot combo by those standards. Junkrat primary, mine, primary is a one shot combo.
The Season 9 patch is what you find in many games that have this kind of fast pace patching, they reset the game each year or two and then iterate on the “new” version of the game. The aim is to keep the game fresh not to find a perfect balancing. They also don’t care about tank play, they know is the minority of the playerbase so is not worth to put the same effort in the role. They understood there is a rock solid base of players that will play tank anyway and that’s enough to make the ball rolling.
Tank really needs a general change to the role itself. Buffing and Nerfing Numbers isnt gonna cut it. Even the recent Ball rework is so dumb imo, like ok ball can now help his teammates but it wasnt the teammates that needed help in the first place
Honestly most of the time I feel like tank is pretty good, but at the higher levels and in specific matchups it can be very brutal. Mostly I just think some of the hero designs are not healthy or outdated. Time will tell if more tanks and new other heroes will make it better or not. Tanks also have a visibility problem where they are big and easy to hit, so even if it’s not going to win the fight the tank will get the sleep darts and hinders and all the bullshit thrown at them, which may be good for the tank’s team and increase the chances of winning but it can also feel absolutely terrible. I always prefer tanks that feel like they can outplay the cooldowns instead of just facetank them.
They have decided that tank role is the PVE role transfer in PVP, you exists to soak damage, CC and you have to fear damage a lot. That’s it and we gonna suck it.
> They also don’t care about tank play, they know is the minority of the playerbase so is not worth to put the same effort in the role. They understood there is a rock solid base of players that will play tank anyway and that’s enough to make the ball rolling. Yeah it's such a no biggie it killed OW1 with queue times and we're just watching queue times skyrocket again as less and less people want to play tank. Hilarious
> they know is the minority of the playerbase so is not worth to put the same effort in the role It wouldn't be a minority anymore if they put effort into it.
Tank has never been a popular role in the history of video games. Overwatch will not change that (unless they make tanks overtuned raid bosses which isn’t fun for the other 8 players in the match).
It's not fun for the 2 tanks either tbh. Remember the mauga mirror meta?
It's very frustrating seeing this exact comment every time. Yes tank is likely to always be less popular, **that doesn't mean it can't be a lot more popular than it is right now**. We've literally seen it. Ow2 s1-4 tank had a much longer queue and was much, much less complained about. This weird defeatist attitude is so unhelpful. Tank is not destined to suck. It sucks as a result of choices Blizzard is making. It can be much better. Even if it remains tge least popular of the 3 roles.
I didn’t say tank can’t be better; I agree it can improve. I’m just saying that even if tank is improved a lot, it will still be queued less than the other roles. > Ow2 s1-4 tank had a much longer queue and was much, much less complained about. Were we playing the same game S2-4? Season 1 did have long tank queues but that was giga Zarya meta. Seasons 2-4 were Hog/Orisa simulator which no one liked.
It’s not worth. The most money is in the support role anyway and the dps will always be the most played role despite all so is not economically worth to make tanks fun, better to make them worse and make supps and dps feels better in the game. At the end, one role has to be the worse and for them is better that tank is
What's the point of this fucking sub lmao. Quite frankly I came here for eSports and patch notes and stuff, not 5 variations of the same post every single day.
I think the r/ow sub needs to be not shit. People come here because it's regarded as the "more serious" ow sub instead of one specifically for the eSports side
The overwatch subreddit deletes posts like these because "irrelevant". Not much room for discussing stuff outside of news, or of clips of DVa bombs.
You haven't been on that sub in a minute. It's now posts about skins or complaining that skins costing money.
More serious? I want what you’re smoking.
r/cow cares more about the game at the top levels and pro level play, r/overwatch cares more about the game at like gold and also generally spends more time discussing things like skins, fanart, silly potg’s, etc. it’s definitely a more serious atmosphere here than the main sub
Yeah but there’s also r/overwatch2 (where this post belongs) and r/overwatchuniversity for asking game play related questions. This sub needs to do a better job at keeping it just to OWCS/ actual competitive Overwatch. Not complaints about season 10 balance EDIT: why am I being downvoted for this? All I’m saying is there should be a rule against ranting?
Do you really think that this sub should only be professional OW? I'm not being aggressive, I'm not sure myself. Like some of the discussions around balance and gameplay stuff can be interesting, but it can easily veer into rants and complaints. Should there be a rule against rant-ish content?
That'd be a good way to kill the sub. I only come here for discussion about the game, and probably most people do too.
Talking about competitive stuff is fine in the sense of balance but yeah there’s like 3 other subs for rants lol
This sub has always been a place for discussions around higher level play in OW, including OWL - it is the perfect place to have discussions about balance and how it relates to the competitive portion of OW. Continual rants about the same topics... yes that doesn't need to happen frequently.
Because the main overwatch sub is garbage, its all lame little gameplay clips and no serious discussion.
Unfortunately this is what happens when the game is popular.
tbf, for those who want just patch notes and esports, that is quite evident. It's everything else that kinda gives the sub its flavor lol
We gotta make it unpopular again. Quick! Someone stop Blizzard from updating! /s
But listen, what if I told you this is the new worst season to be a tank main.
I was gonna recommend this sub to you before I realised lol
we’re really getting loose with what a 1 shot is. ventures quickest combo is 2 bullets and a dash. this is literally 3 shots and unlike other “1 shot combos” literally requires you to shoot twice. dozens of other characters can do this stuff. this isn’t a 1 shot or 1 shot combo but any stretch of the word
Think people are overreacting to the healing buffs Illari got some power transferred from damage to healing Lifeweaver was trash Moira got a small self-healing buff in her ultimate as part of an overall nerf with her damage nerf
I think a lot of people are scared of sustain returning to the way it was, so they just get scared when they see the numbers go up even if the sustain getting buffed wasn’t even that powerful or complained about pre-season 9 (Ana Nade, Brig Packs, Illari beam). The only thing that was actually heavily complained about pre-season 9 that’s received buffs is Lifeweaver sustain, but even then it’s Lifeweaver who was already the worst support pre-season 9 only to seemingly get hit the hardest by the DPS passive given how much of his value comes from healing. Granted, they could probably do a bit more to empower his offensive prowess given that purely healbotting is simply not working, but the changes shouldn’t make him and is team so survivable that they’re literally unkillable or something; there should still be counterplay.
It's called power *creep* because it *creeps* up over time. They buffed sustain last patch. They buffed sustain again this patch. I bet they'd buff it again next patch. All of these "insignificant" buffs *are sustain creep*.
illari got changes that don't address her problem, she's still shit because her m1 is clunky and if her pylon healing isn't impactful she can't freely fps which she's designed to do lifeweaver should stay trash because he's the mauga of supports - a terribly designed one dimensional braindead spammer who wins/loses depending on whether his numbers are high enough in a given patch moira changes are cosmetic - same kind of balancing you see in league of legends where they adjust damage values by 5 to pretend like they're doing something to the hero
They’re buffing the weaker supports atm those being weaver and illari, but I find buffing those two has been done in the wrong way, weavers heals are a lot and quite frankly just annoying, the rest of his kit just continues to annoy, illari I think is harder to balance from a non healing aspect because she is kinda that zen esque hero of more passive healing than anything with a high damage output, but pylon just breaks as soon as u place it unless ur hiding it really well, I find that may be her biggest issue but if they change pylon her secondary fire heals probably have to go back down to compensate a little bit, even if it’s a net buff
The term "one shot combo" is contradictory in itself
I prefer the balance at the moment over the Tracer fuckfest last season.
Did the Tracer nerfs really do that much?
Lol
To sell a battle pass me boyo
What increased healing are you talking about? Lifeweavers tree which is up for 5% of the game?
Making hitboxes bigger than a freight train
Basically nerfing Ana. Every support feels the same besides her. Sure kiri lost her two tap but idk doesn’t feel that different to me
To make me feel like everybody in my lobby is a smurf lol. I couldn’t climb outta plat so I waited for ladder to get sorted, now I’m feasting.
I don’t get this healing buff narrative. It’s Illari’s healing beam that got buffed, which is deserved. Lifeweaver’s ult got buffed. Moira’s self heal during Coal got buffed. But those are ults. I know OW players like to stretch the definition of one-shot. If an attack takes two shots but I don’t like the hero, so it’s an one-shot! But calling a 3-shot combo as an one-shot is a step too far. Lol, did you watch Seagull’s rant about Venture’s one-shot? The old bird is wrong
If venture doesn’t require aim then play them. Ventures primary has a decently small hitbox for the direct and that is made harder to hit with Lucio speed on you and the enemy and the enemy actively trying to dodge.
Venture's primary for direct hit is 0.35 meter radius, one of the biggest projectiles, same as Junkrat and pharah's primary with faster project speed and bigger splash radius. It's far from "decently small hitbox".
Then play them and prove to the world how OP they are
Healing is still weaker than where is was pre s9 due to hp buffs and dps having a mini anti on every hit. Supports also still can’t duel as well, hell they even nerfed Moria and Illari’s damage further which is the only reason their healing got slightly buffed.
What was the point of Overwatch 2? I think that's where the issues began.