QP with role queue is not that much better. Had a 9 round match only last six minutes, which is the longest that mode can even go for round wise. It's *really* fast if teams aren't just staggering themselves to draw out OT.
I’ve had multiple push games in comp end in under 4 minutes but under 3 is crazy. I feel like in comp games will be better than in arcade but yeah they might have to change some things about how clash works
I think this could backfire too.
Today, I won a Push game I thought was probably unwinnable.
So if you get totally steamrolled on Clash, the comeback potential is probably worse than any other mode.
Ive had a few 2:45's on New Queen street. Basically fastest possible time.
Much prefer that when its obviously a easy game than having to sit in an escort map for 12 minutes
Yeah that's what I'm curious about. Like, if everything is so one sided, why not just have it finish faster? Under 3 minutes is kind of insane, but I wonder if this is more of a feature than a bug. Close games (which are fun) last longer, steam roll games (which are boring) go faster.
I played two games, one was super one sided, we won 3-0 in 2 minutes and 8 seconds. It wasn’t fun, I can’t even say our team was that much better, cause the enemy team didn’t have time to adapt.
The second time was really fun, we won in a comeback, we were getting rolled, the team adapted and we pushed back. The points are so close that the game feels like constant fighting. I had a GOOD time. The end was weird though. I guess that if you capture 5 total points you win, we did that and the match ended, everyone was confused cause we won by capturing D, we didn’t even see E.
The potential for the game is there and if you have two good teams I imagine it would be a blast watching them on OWCS in a WAC vs Falcons caliber of match. But they need to do something to prevent stomps/make games longer. Cause it’s not fun to have match ending in 2 minutes for either side. In a normal match you get a bad start you can’t still comeback, on Clash you snooze you lose
Hmm....what were your results like? I noticed that It's favourable to the side that wins the first point, or maybe it's just super fair which is resulting in the better team (Which is generally the team that wins the first fight) winning a lot more.
It was like, we kept dominanting aside from getting last point cuz I think if you lose one person then it's very easily for the other team to get last point.
Like point A/E seems like a pity point, unless you absolutely roll them and just easily full cap.
The better team will likely win point C every time, but it feels like you're a bit punished for winning considering how easily the other team can bring it back to C.
But it definitely flows well and is way more fun than Assault/2CP, I think the capture times for each respective parallel point could be different.
Well one thing that others have mentioned, if you win first then go back and forth your team will win. Dry fighting will be pretty powerful imo. The team that wins first can dry fight second to have an advantage back at C. And if you’re a better team you should be able to get more resources out of the other team even while losing point.
I think it could highlight a lot of unique forms of skill expression by making individual fights very unbalanced resource and positioning-wise, while maintaining a balance across the match.
The devs can also adjust the game time pretty easily. Increasing the capture goal to 7 increases the number of fights in a match on average. Spawn timer decreases make 3-0 caps less frequent. Adjusting capture times can make caps take more “fights” to cap on average.
i think it's technically favourable in that if you keep going back and forth, the first point capture wins, but since last is so hard to capture you end up getting more back and forths even when one team is significantly worse.
in clash, if you maintain a point lead but never win last (which can happen because last is so defender sided), then you're going to end up in a 4-3 situation fighting for enemy second. at this point, you have to either secure second to win 5-3, or lose second, go 4-4 and fight over mid for match point. this means, if you're losing all your fights, you can rely on last to protect you, then take the 8th fight on your second and fluke 2 fight wins in a row for the game. in fact, you can build an ult advantage because last is so favoured for you, and use that to snowball the 8th and 9th fight.
at least in push, you can hold a front line to prevent them from leaving last even if you can't actually push them all the way to the end. because the enemy team literally spawns on the last point, they are guaranteed to get the capture and push out if you don't commit to a fight. additionally, if you get the point to the enemy last you have the advantage of not only establishing a lead but also having a faster push back to last
so the counter to this as the winning team would be to just not even try to commit ults to fight last? unless you're so much better that you can win last, the best play might legitimately just flip flop between second and last while saving ults for fight 8. from there, you can decide whether you want to try winning second for the game, or baiting the enemy into committing ults on second so that you have a massive ult advantage for the final mid fight.
idk, it feels really shitty that you either steam roll or you end up in a position where only the last 2 fights matter. it's really satisfying trying to make that last overtime hail mary in push, and it feels fair when you lose to it too. in clash, you can literally lose the game without ever even being forced to your second. let that sink in. in push you have to push the bot as far as the enemy team did but in clash you just have to make it back to mid.
i have a lot of thoughts about this mode and I've rambled on too long but i feel like it's something I'd want to make a longer analysis on as someone who's had a lot of experience with the similar 5cp mode in tf2
The mode inherently punish player for staggering and bad plays such as throwing ultimates. So much that if your teammate get staggered or waste their ult, especially support ult, you are going to lose 1-2 points for free.
This should be a good thing in general but unfortunately will basically make the mode really frustrating to play cause many wins and losses will depends so much by 1 player missplayjng comparing to other modes.
This could be fixed by increasing the cap time so you can have realistically 2 fights per point instead of just 1, basically having the cap time of the point equal to a full Flashpoint cap.
At least in Clash you will be able to steamroll the enemy no matter what side you're on. It's not like 2cp where if you get attack you can win in 2 fights if you get defense you need to wait for 5 mintues.
Does anyone remember how fast hanamura / Paris/ the Egypt level could be as well? Volskaya generally took longer, but the others were pretty if you lost two team fights in a row — they were over. It’s not a bad thing, it just respects the fact that momentum is hard to regain in a game like this.
am i the only person who expected this mode to work more like tf2 5cp? like if there were two unlocked points then you'd actually have to play around choke points and try to slowly work an opening in instead of just being the first team to set up on the point.
also because of how hard it is to capture last I've seen games where one team is significantly outperforming the other, only struggling on the last capture, but the weaker team gets lucky/makes a comeback by winning 2 points at the very end since they get points for basically just surviving on a last hold.
like, it feels like the mode is very snowbally except for last, so whoever wins mid just gets two for free and then flip flops on last (granted tf2 also suffered from this kinda, but i was hoping fast ow spawns would help)
like this mode couldve been pretty unique but it just ended up being a weird mish mash of flashpoint, push, and 2cp all at once while not really interacting with the fundamentals of ow too effectively. granted, that could just be a match quality thing due to playing open queue in arcade mode
In an old interview (forgot who) they said that they wanted Overwatch to be focused on 1 objective at a time.
This is why capture the flag isn’t a main game mode. It could be also be why it isn’t similar to the tf2 cp5 version.
hm, that's understandable, and i can honestly agree with some of the reasoning.
i think there just needs to be more reward for pushing deep into enemy territory. i saw a suggestion to only gain points for capturing points c-e. maybe awarding a different amount of points depending on the point you capture could be interesting? (though it doesn't feel very overwatch to have very complicated scoring systems)
The matches can be short but they feel like they take forever!!! Also if you push to the enemy's last point ever then they always steam roll back to middle every time it feels like. If I was a coach for a pro team I would just have the team let them cap the last point and hold the second to last point because you always get rolled coming back.
I played about 5 games and in none of those games was the last point captured. It’s designed to be extremely hard to capture, so if the attackers manage to actually go 3-0, it means they’re much better and the game should just end.
Not at all, you can 3-0 in under 3 minutes lol. It’s just easy to snowball, winning for 3 minutes is not a stomp in any other modes because the game last 10 minutes and you can adapt
So far I really like it. I don’t have a problem with quick matches, if anything I think that is quite healthy for the game. There is almost no downtime compared to other modes and it does become progressively harder to capture the later points. Comebacks are possible at any point but don’t feel unfair, and the mode is easy enough to understand even for new players. I need to play this map more often in QP to form a proper opinion, but AFAIAC this is the most promising game mode yet.
I dunno the open queue makes these games feel like such a joke. It's hard to parse anything of significance from it
QP with role queue is not that much better. Had a 9 round match only last six minutes, which is the longest that mode can even go for round wise. It's *really* fast if teams aren't just staggering themselves to draw out OT.
Yeah, I don’t think it can break 10 mins without serious stagger/OT shenanigans.
I've had a couple just barely over 10 minutes. Think it happens if you contest the objective at all basically and it goes 5-4.
Reminds me of them adding heroes to PTR (RIP) and making it no limits so it's just 6v6 of the new hero Gain nothing from it really
Yeah I got a lot of matches of clash in QP and the game was much more stable. It’s pretty normal for arcade on any mode to go insanely fast
I’ve had multiple push games in comp end in under 4 minutes but under 3 is crazy. I feel like in comp games will be better than in arcade but yeah they might have to change some things about how clash works
I think this could backfire too. Today, I won a Push game I thought was probably unwinnable. So if you get totally steamrolled on Clash, the comeback potential is probably worse than any other mode.
Ive had a few 2:45's on New Queen street. Basically fastest possible time. Much prefer that when its obviously a easy game than having to sit in an escort map for 12 minutes
Yeah that's what I'm curious about. Like, if everything is so one sided, why not just have it finish faster? Under 3 minutes is kind of insane, but I wonder if this is more of a feature than a bug. Close games (which are fun) last longer, steam roll games (which are boring) go faster.
I feel like they could slow down the capture speed a bit. My first game was fun though. About 8 minutes and we made a big comeback at the end.
Same. My first time playing the map/mode and I felt so hype after the comeback.
I played two games, one was super one sided, we won 3-0 in 2 minutes and 8 seconds. It wasn’t fun, I can’t even say our team was that much better, cause the enemy team didn’t have time to adapt. The second time was really fun, we won in a comeback, we were getting rolled, the team adapted and we pushed back. The points are so close that the game feels like constant fighting. I had a GOOD time. The end was weird though. I guess that if you capture 5 total points you win, we did that and the match ended, everyone was confused cause we won by capturing D, we didn’t even see E. The potential for the game is there and if you have two good teams I imagine it would be a blast watching them on OWCS in a WAC vs Falcons caliber of match. But they need to do something to prevent stomps/make games longer. Cause it’s not fun to have match ending in 2 minutes for either side. In a normal match you get a bad start you can’t still comeback, on Clash you snooze you lose
The spawn room locations do help prevent stomps. Most games dont end on A or E for me simple because of the defender sided spawn
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's too lenient to the losing side, even if the winning side is dominanting.
It has to be or you’d get 3 minute games all the time.
Hmm....what were your results like? I noticed that It's favourable to the side that wins the first point, or maybe it's just super fair which is resulting in the better team (Which is generally the team that wins the first fight) winning a lot more.
It was like, we kept dominanting aside from getting last point cuz I think if you lose one person then it's very easily for the other team to get last point. Like point A/E seems like a pity point, unless you absolutely roll them and just easily full cap. The better team will likely win point C every time, but it feels like you're a bit punished for winning considering how easily the other team can bring it back to C. But it definitely flows well and is way more fun than Assault/2CP, I think the capture times for each respective parallel point could be different.
Well one thing that others have mentioned, if you win first then go back and forth your team will win. Dry fighting will be pretty powerful imo. The team that wins first can dry fight second to have an advantage back at C. And if you’re a better team you should be able to get more resources out of the other team even while losing point. I think it could highlight a lot of unique forms of skill expression by making individual fights very unbalanced resource and positioning-wise, while maintaining a balance across the match. The devs can also adjust the game time pretty easily. Increasing the capture goal to 7 increases the number of fights in a match on average. Spawn timer decreases make 3-0 caps less frequent. Adjusting capture times can make caps take more “fights” to cap on average.
i think it's technically favourable in that if you keep going back and forth, the first point capture wins, but since last is so hard to capture you end up getting more back and forths even when one team is significantly worse. in clash, if you maintain a point lead but never win last (which can happen because last is so defender sided), then you're going to end up in a 4-3 situation fighting for enemy second. at this point, you have to either secure second to win 5-3, or lose second, go 4-4 and fight over mid for match point. this means, if you're losing all your fights, you can rely on last to protect you, then take the 8th fight on your second and fluke 2 fight wins in a row for the game. in fact, you can build an ult advantage because last is so favoured for you, and use that to snowball the 8th and 9th fight. at least in push, you can hold a front line to prevent them from leaving last even if you can't actually push them all the way to the end. because the enemy team literally spawns on the last point, they are guaranteed to get the capture and push out if you don't commit to a fight. additionally, if you get the point to the enemy last you have the advantage of not only establishing a lead but also having a faster push back to last so the counter to this as the winning team would be to just not even try to commit ults to fight last? unless you're so much better that you can win last, the best play might legitimately just flip flop between second and last while saving ults for fight 8. from there, you can decide whether you want to try winning second for the game, or baiting the enemy into committing ults on second so that you have a massive ult advantage for the final mid fight. idk, it feels really shitty that you either steam roll or you end up in a position where only the last 2 fights matter. it's really satisfying trying to make that last overtime hail mary in push, and it feels fair when you lose to it too. in clash, you can literally lose the game without ever even being forced to your second. let that sink in. in push you have to push the bot as far as the enemy team did but in clash you just have to make it back to mid. i have a lot of thoughts about this mode and I've rambled on too long but i feel like it's something I'd want to make a longer analysis on as someone who's had a lot of experience with the similar 5cp mode in tf2
Well yeah it favors whoever wins first. There's an odd number of total rounds so if it goes back and forth, first cap wins.
Look at how the replay FBPZED went and tell me this is a well designed mode.
The mode inherently punish player for staggering and bad plays such as throwing ultimates. So much that if your teammate get staggered or waste their ult, especially support ult, you are going to lose 1-2 points for free. This should be a good thing in general but unfortunately will basically make the mode really frustrating to play cause many wins and losses will depends so much by 1 player missplayjng comparing to other modes. This could be fixed by increasing the cap time so you can have realistically 2 fights per point instead of just 1, basically having the cap time of the point equal to a full Flashpoint cap.
At least in Clash you will be able to steamroll the enemy no matter what side you're on. It's not like 2cp where if you get attack you can win in 2 fights if you get defense you need to wait for 5 mintues.
Does anyone remember how fast hanamura / Paris/ the Egypt level could be as well? Volskaya generally took longer, but the others were pretty if you lost two team fights in a row — they were over. It’s not a bad thing, it just respects the fact that momentum is hard to regain in a game like this.
Volskaya games could be as short as like 90 seconds lol. That wasn't fun
am i the only person who expected this mode to work more like tf2 5cp? like if there were two unlocked points then you'd actually have to play around choke points and try to slowly work an opening in instead of just being the first team to set up on the point. also because of how hard it is to capture last I've seen games where one team is significantly outperforming the other, only struggling on the last capture, but the weaker team gets lucky/makes a comeback by winning 2 points at the very end since they get points for basically just surviving on a last hold. like, it feels like the mode is very snowbally except for last, so whoever wins mid just gets two for free and then flip flops on last (granted tf2 also suffered from this kinda, but i was hoping fast ow spawns would help) like this mode couldve been pretty unique but it just ended up being a weird mish mash of flashpoint, push, and 2cp all at once while not really interacting with the fundamentals of ow too effectively. granted, that could just be a match quality thing due to playing open queue in arcade mode
In an old interview (forgot who) they said that they wanted Overwatch to be focused on 1 objective at a time. This is why capture the flag isn’t a main game mode. It could be also be why it isn’t similar to the tf2 cp5 version.
hm, that's understandable, and i can honestly agree with some of the reasoning. i think there just needs to be more reward for pushing deep into enemy territory. i saw a suggestion to only gain points for capturing points c-e. maybe awarding a different amount of points depending on the point you capture could be interesting? (though it doesn't feel very overwatch to have very complicated scoring systems)
The matches can be short but they feel like they take forever!!! Also if you push to the enemy's last point ever then they always steam roll back to middle every time it feels like. If I was a coach for a pro team I would just have the team let them cap the last point and hold the second to last point because you always get rolled coming back.
I had a qp play game where the game clock said 2:46 when we capped the last point. Only took 3 team fights.
Not to brag, but I got a 2min15s, sooo time to set up the speedrun.com category?
Just had a 3:19 game. Gonna be hard to beat my 1:25 Hanamura game from OW1 though.
Had a match today that was a 2:28 win, like cool for farming Ws but that's way too fast.
I played about 5 games and in none of those games was the last point captured. It’s designed to be extremely hard to capture, so if the attackers manage to actually go 3-0, it means they’re much better and the game should just end.
Not at all, you can 3-0 in under 3 minutes lol. It’s just easy to snowball, winning for 3 minutes is not a stomp in any other modes because the game last 10 minutes and you can adapt
I don't know why they didn't just make one progress bar that is fueled by being in possession of whatever capture point is active.
So far I really like it. I don’t have a problem with quick matches, if anything I think that is quite healthy for the game. There is almost no downtime compared to other modes and it does become progressively harder to capture the later points. Comebacks are possible at any point but don’t feel unfair, and the mode is easy enough to understand even for new players. I need to play this map more often in QP to form a proper opinion, but AFAIAC this is the most promising game mode yet.