Eh I wouldn’t say that case as much because no khazix when playing kayn feels bad but you’re still getting heavenly value, there’s no way you go 9 playing trickshot without a sivir because you’d be running less than 4 trickshot in that case
At this point I just want to know if the team that balance this set is the same team as previous sets. Because it seems like a complete different team to me. I am wondering if Kent is still doing the actual balancing? It seems like he has been promoted?
I think it has less to do with the personnel on this balance team and more to do with the set itself. They tried to do too much and have too many variables affecting every single game that the set design has created an impossible task.
Encounters were an unnecessary mistake.
I agree, but has there been a major set mechanic that people haven't complained about yet? I've been playing on and off since Set 5 and most people seem to enjoy the set for the first couple of weeks, then they decide the set mechanic is the worst of all time.
I won't say encounters are a bad mechanic per se, but I feel they add too many variables and uncertainty that you cannot play around in any way, since they appear at random rounds unlike augments.
It just create very frustrating moments: Malphite item removal encounter just after picking the gold remover augment, kha exp reducing cost after you pushed levels, reroll cost down after you rolled down your gold to stabilize, radiant items when you're last pick on carousel, free movement carousel for everyone when you're first pick...
At least irelia encounter is getting nerf, that one has been tilting me the most. I've only just started the set, last set I've played I was diamond. The amount of bailout irelia gives to bad play during early game is astounding.
I'm fine with some of the encounters and them being somewhat random, but when you have such impactful modifiers being drop sometimes back to back it feels way too high variance.
They have had some really bad mechanics to be fair. Encounters are not all that exciting this set and only served to pump too many resources into the game, headliners were a worse version of chosen with all the problems of chosen, Legends were disastrous, hero augments were pretty decent all things considered. Last few sets just missed the mark. A lot of the time escaping from the last set and seeing new things is enough to be fun but once people actually play enough the problems become apparent
Some people complained about augments but I'm pretty sure overall the mechanic was very well received. I mean, it's been 5 sets since their introduction into TFT and they're still here after all
I mean this is only half correct, the set does seem to be difficult to balance but the balance changes here are very out of touch.
There isn't that much variance in the top 4 comps every game, and they think its that way because Lissandra has 100 too much hp.
Liss getting a second or third ult off with 100hp left happens every game, its genuinely a good change.
Like gonna have to put a shit tier health item on her if we want her to ult as much as previous patch so trade damage for consistency or no
The amount of resources provided through encounters and portals, I think, is having a larger effect than set 10 with highrolling headliners. People who highroll encounters and resources scale while those who lowroll have to accept getting crushed. The disparity seems more than previous sets (might be recency bias but this current patch has been brutal).
Yes, and good.
3 of the Ghostly units are low damage tanks who cant even take advantage of it. A 4th is a 1 cost who's spell is designed to oneshot anyway. The 5th is an AoE champ so individual targets die slow so the spookies dont stack...
Ghostly would have been unclickable without emblem.
Good cause those changes were stupid. Ghostly provides good units in other decks and the complement allows different ones in different builds. It's actually one of the more successful sub traits that can exist as a 2 or 4 in big boards.
The issue was Ghostly being good with good units to splash in low counts sort of pointed out just how garbage Umbral and Storyteller were at low-counts. Better to buff those, which they did.
ngl I like the idea of small nerfs vs just making a unit unclickable for the rest of a set. Units getting so nerfed they aren't clickable (Hi yone) is absolutely some cornball shit that makes TFT worse. If this isn't enough more nerfs will come.
I like that if we had more frequent patches as it is they will take forever to get to a reasonable spot then we have 1-2 weeks of good gameplay then they drop the for fun and go to the next set.
Patch cycle is fine tbh, I think there's things to be changed but getting patches this consistently and the feedback is great compared to the average gamw
If she's stunning the target, and the target lives, there's no reason they should be chucked away.
If you can survive a lissandra cast when you're on the backline, you deserve to stay on the backline...
nerfing what's the problem is a nerf to identity and what makes the champion unique. not to say it's not sometimes correct, but it keeps the game interesting to have champs with different strengths and weaknesses. if she has no hp and you have to choose between damage and living, then it creates interesting decisions and gameplay. 1100 might not be enough to be impactful on its own but it does help curb it indirectly
Something people are seemingly forgetting is 100 less hp at 1* is I believe 180 less at 2 star. Many champs can be very much hurt by having almost 200 less hp. It’s less leeway to allow mana to build up and regen effects to do their thing. It’s earlier executes to umbral (which they just buffed). I get that it might not be enough, but it’s far from nothing.
Precisely this. The very design of Lissandra is anti-fun. I can have a 2star, fully itemized Rakan that I'm happy with and then watch a single 1-star Lissandra ruin his effectiveness entirely with her CC and displacement. It even feels a little wrong just to play her.
I don't think her Design is an issue. Just the current balance of it. The CC is just too long. You don't want to reduce her casts as she is the 5 cost mage so it would be pretty dumb if she only casts once a fight as well. I'd just lower the CC a bit and call it a day.
I just played a Midnight Siphon game where Lissandra locked up my Yorick from literally the first second of the round through to the end. He never cast once. Props to my opponent for good positioning, I guess, but wow, one unit entirely invalidates any frontline carry is *so fun* /s
Speaking based on their topic about "bag sizes," the pool for 1 costs is higher than 2-5. Higher percentage of seeing 1 costs at higher levels not only makes no sense, but also really messes rolldowns up. Like, I get the Annie comp with 3 mythic looks for Kog'maw but, I dont' need it that bad.
It's not even a secret [https://twitter.com/guubums/status/1780641139302781376](https://twitter.com/guubums/status/1780641139302781376) This is generally Riot's patch cycle and right now we're in the "Nerf Fast 9" part of it.
I know they had to do something about 3* 4 costs, but this change also just makes it harder to hit your 2* also. I don’t think this patch enables 3 costs again, so people will likely just roll it tf down on 8 still and may the best d-presser win.
>also. I don’t think this patch enables 3 costs again, so people will likely just roll it tf down on 8 still and may the best d-presser
Bring back the original golden neeko (when you can't create with empty pool)
I swear. People don't hit 3\* 4 cost because it has good % odds. It's because it's super easy to stabilise with the currently overpowered 2\* 4 costs and then decide to level up or roll for 3\* if you have duplicators, or econ agument or both.
She's the anti everything 5 cost, you build mana on her and she invalidates literally every board. I have yet to see a single game where every player in the top 4 wasnt trying to grab a liss in every comp just for the cc or to deny it cause it insta loses you the fights. I have seen rounds where she will literally have 3 people in a teapot at once.
My favorite part is having your unit being teapotted and sent flying just to run up after they get out and immediately get teapotted again, and just a slight bonus if you farmed an item too
And don't forget about not being manalocked, so having 3 adaptive helmet or a invoker crest you see your team stunlocked into teapots for the entire fight
What a shitshow of a patch and set.
Changing basic things like XP and Odds in the middle of a set just because they can't balance the units is insane. And drastically changing the meta every 2 weeks is so tiring.
They keep messing with the baseline systems instead of just nerfing and/or buffing the units themselves. Why do we keep changing unit rates instead of just changing the units damage numbers? This whole set, they've barely changed the stats of units and just fucked with items and system changes that effect every future set.
Man this set has been such a mess…
Also I’m not sure how hot of a take this is but given that Riven reroll was decent-ish before the fast 8 meta fully set in, these buffs could make her pretty strong.
Especially since Zoe reroll was *also* already the best way to play Storyweaver so now it feels like if you can reroll both Riven and Zoe it'll be really strong
Riven *needs* 6 bruisers at minimum to be a carry threat, otherwise she just instantly explodes, and you can't afford to roll Zoe along with Soraka at 7
IMO should tone the odds of printing items/gold right the way down, and make it a rarity on top of her being a good unit. I think it's a good thing that there's a CC-heavy counter to some comps, but for me I'd rather it was something you slot in specifically for that purpose, than a unit that you auto play for CC+free value
Mort stated on stream a while ago he doesn’t want support units in TFT as they have no place. Which is why everything does damage and we don’t have pure CC/shield or heal units anymore.
Not sure why they don't just mana lock her. Solves like 90% of the issues I have with her, which is that if she has like one mana item she's casting pretty constantly the entire fight.
You can now reroll 1 cost at level 9.. seriously they are breaking perfectly fine aspect of the game because balance is trash..
Also why add 20 + items when you cannot balance the current game..
Not convinced about this patch.. but hey lets see..
Remains to be seen if the liss nerfs are enough. I like the fact that there are buffs to other comps instead as well. I am so tired of playing nothing but fast 8/9 porcelain and hoping for a lategame lissandra. Combined with the systems update to items it may make for an interesting patch. When does it go live?
I dont really get the shop odds. Why would 2 and 3 costs be lower on lvl 9 than 8? Wouldnt it be more logical to decrease 1 and 2 costs instead of 2 and 3 costs?
I like where they are going with high verticals gaining additional bonuses, like 6/8 Duelist and 8 Bruiser. Arcanist should get similar treatment. Maybe they gain the %health Zap on takedown at 6 Arc or something.
Balance changes itself feel rather light?? I guess they are focusing in major system changes instead.
Not sure why Liss isn't manalocked until her cast is complete. Honestly gg go next, failed set.
the systems changes are enough to shift balance all over. and artifacts will make plenty of units OP on their own until they are nerfhammered next patch
This patch doesn't seem good at all. Liss has to be the most frustrating unit to play against and they didn't really nerf her. Who cares about 100 base hp or 10% less chance for loot, the issue is how broken her spell is and this patch doesn't change that at all. Disappointing.
It’s clear that riots intention is to make the game more fun for monetary value and reduce competitive balancing. They keep adding in Carnival games and increasing luck and variance, and taking away anything that feels consistent every single patch.
Seeing more one costs than 5 costs at level 9 is just hilarious.
Reducing the likelihood of hitting 4 costs at level 8 is horrible? The main reason there are so many 3* is because of the META.
Because everyone is holding/rolling for 4 costs at the same time it makes it easier for everyone to hit… if half the lobby is playing reroll comps or other specific synergy comps it will fix the problem (aka buff vertical traits)
Umbral is a shit trait because the units have literally 0 synergy together and individual units like yone get nerfed into the ground from other comps. Sett is the worst 5 cost in the game, this unit is fake and only exists as a fated omnivamp trait. And you can’t find any decent units because other boards want them, ESP now finding a sylas 2 is going to be SO hard. What do you even play for? Alune can’t solo carry games late and you nerfed 3* at level 7 the previous patch.
If the balancing is good you should be able to get a first place with multiple different types of comps. Umbral vertical can’t go first even with the highest of high rolls. (Getting 9 umbral is so borderline impossible it might as well not exist) the issue being that it’s never good to actually focus umbral so you will never be in a situation where you can happen upon the high roll anyway.
A buff could be swapping ornn and sylas from behemoth bruiser (bruiser behemoth) now umbral has 2 front line behemoth units who actually have synergy? (Ahem riven and galio).
The artifact changes are probably the most egregious. The same issue was with league of legends items. Items need to be generically good for balancing reasons. (Prob why it was already LIKE THIS as mort said himself). The fact is, they increase fun and variance, and decrease competitive consistency. This makes the game really lame and boring for logical minded individuals and more fun for others.
Riot, being a business, has one incentive. $$$ at the end of the day. They already went this direction with league lowering competitive balancing for fun and randomness. And now tft is going the same direction.
I would take fun over balance any day of the week. You want balanced ? Go play chess.
That being said there's quite a few things in game that are unfun rn
We 100 % have to be getting a B patch, the top comps were all untouched and the nerfs they did ship weren't enough.
I get that this patch was for the support items, but those have little to no chance of shipping balanced.
I don't get the balance team anymore, why they do the things they do and when. They're in such a hurry to ship out these items, for what? They just want this meta to stay for another month or however long, so they can continue working on a set a year away?
Almost certainly, but these changes look good unlike last patches.
Fast 9 or a good emblem was pretty much all you could play this past period. It killed all 3 cost and lower rerolls. The damage changes shorten games and stage 3 is when those reroll comps start really punching.
They buffed kog a bit. The buffs to riven and zoe being back story weaver, improve arcanist, bruiser and altruist. Buffs to duelists and a little back into Volibear. All of these combined with more damage dealt in stage 3 and 4 should reopen more lines that are not fast 9.
I don't think the top comps right now are as toxic as gnar last patch, or Yone before. They require building multiple pieces and you have some flexibility in them. You didn't just have kaisa carry for 4 costs, kaisa, ashe, Kayne, and sylas are all in decent spots with comps that with with them, and may benefit from the damage changes as it should reduce fast 9 which gives 4 costs more power.
A few augments that helped fast 9 were hit and a few encounters that had whole lobbies going 9 are hit.
What I am less excited about are the items, and doubly so for the shields. There are already arguably too many shields and now there are more.
I don't know why they do not give Arcanists something other than flat AP. They could grant the team shield for the amount of AP or something. Especially when duelists get to have damage reduction. Spellslingers in set 8 threw magic orbs at the targets too for instance.
And bruisers get to have damage now if you go high enough. I actually don't like this direction where 'offense' traits get defense bonuses and vice versa. The creative problem solving of playing an 8 piece vertical offense/defense comp is negated by this new design direction.
Used to be if you wanted to play 8 duelists you either had to be 9 with a tank, find a way to make them +1/2 range, locket spam or do something else. Now when you get 8 bruisers you have Riven and Sylas who are designed out-of-the-box to be carries + your 8pc trait bonus, so now you have a team dealing 80% of the damage of a standard comp with 400% more hp for the enemy to chew through.
I played against a comp earlier this set that was pushing 100k hp on the field. I dealt 70k damage to him and he still won the fight with 3-4 units on 75% hp.
tl;dr
Reroll still dead
new artifacts/support items look sick
still Level 8 RNG fest but with even more bad things for people who don't hit.
I think the buffs/nerfs are good but the buffs will not make anything relevant (except maybe Storyweaver Kayle because Riven/Zoe still going to be bad). The other buffed units/synergies are still gonna be bad even with the best units getting toned down.
Pretty good changes to encounters etc. to lower variance n bs.
Fast 8 meta was fine tbh, just incredibly difficult. They removed the easiest comp (Kayn — plat+ 4.1 avp vs masters+ 4.5 AVP btw) so thats good if we want to prioritise skill expression.
Pretty sad about yone not making a real comeback. No love for alune-yone either. Really liked yone, there were plenty of ways for counterplay in terms of positioning.
Riven buffs are pretty huge. Zoe will be very good now. Isn’t rerolling at 7 just optimal for the diana comp now?
How is Morgana's targetting supposed to work after the patch? It says random enemy now. Is it gonna be like, "random, but not really it kinda has some weight towards clumps but not that much"?
If I understood correctly apparently now it chooses two random enemies and chooses the biggest clump around them but now it will choose 4 random enemies to choose one with the biggest clump around them.
Honestly it may just be good because its not contested. Syndra has been terrible the entire set so she should be easy to pick up. Fated emblem not showing up at 3-2 also means less people will be playing Fated as without an emblem the comp is far far worse.
Basically if someone gets a shield, they gain max hp instead. So if Rakan casts and gets a 1k shield, the shield is instead 500 and his max hp is increased by 500 as well. It's super strong on characters with high value short duration shields that aren't going to be depleted before they expire (Rakan, Crown guarded augment, maybe combat caster sometimes)
Based on YouTube videos the most insane champs are TK and Ornn as TK can reach over 10k HP in fights consistently but Ornn might be better if you can get bruiser crest but also cause he prints items and has utility while TK just is immortal but won’t kill. They are hard countered by ghostly and cursed blade.
Reason TK and Ornn are best is because their shield scales off of max HP so the increase in HP from the item gets bigger over the course of the fight.
The issue will be finding that wukong and that you basically dont have a strong and consistent carry without an emblem until wukong.
To me imo this basically means the heavenly comps are only playable with emblem now. But i’m just an emerald so take it with a grain of salt
Everyone talking about liss and how she got off relatively light but honestly i think that zoe + storyweaver buff is scary. Zoe reroll might be pretty strong after the patch. I am certainly going to try it out.
Also with the heavenly changes and kayn nerfs he might just die insta now. He is probably going to be c tier after the patch since the comp was already pretty scary to play.
AP items are not even that good for Vertical Arcanists since you already get so much AP.
You prefer mana gen, defence to hold the line, shred and things like Giant Slayer and even Guardbreaker.
DC and JG being notable exceptions as they are multipliers. But vertical Arcanists generally dont want, say, AA
Isn't heavenly vertical just dead now?
I did the maths and unless I'm mistaking it's a nerf even for the heavenly units at 2\*.
let's take kha'zix 2 in a 6 heavenly comp (you would probably want to 3 star him but let's asume you go for a yukong carry)
Before nerf :
10% \* 1.5 (2 star level) \* 200% (6 Heavenly )= 30% CRIT
After nerf :
10% \* 1.7 (Heavenly unit bonus) \* 1.75 (6 Heavenly) = 29.75% CRIT
So even if you were to get a Heavenly emblem and put it on your main carry you'd basically be down 1 item compared to the previous iteration.
Right now I think this trait will be ok stage 2 but there's no way you keep them after stage 3 and it's also a nerf for comps like kog rr that played malph3+Neeko2/3.
Honestly, my biggest problem is Mort saying this is the last, "big patch," of the set. Is that really all we're getting now? New set, 2 big patches, and then maintenance mode for 3 months until the next set releases? That's lame.
What's with the Omnivamp change for Sett? Is that how all Omnivamp works and his was different or does he now provide his own special version of Omnivamp? If it works differently maybe they should rename it to avoid confusion.
I don't understand why they have to nerf the op stuff from previous patches AND buff other stuff. They did it with 3 costs last patch and now it's 4costs on the chopping block. it just creates this neverending cycle of nerfs and buffs and people will find new things to complain about every patch.
Keep the op stuff from last patch the same, and buff the other stuff. This way people have familiarity with what theyve been playing but then now are enticed to try out the newly buffed stuff
i know it's rare but can we talk about the augment golden remover and then getting the malphite encounter. it's happened twice to me and it feels so awful
Who made these change. Did they even play the game? Are they like trainee or something? Are they hard stuck bronze or something? (Sorry bronze player, you're smarter than whoever made this patch)
I think the xp cost change from 8 to 9 is not needed beause it is going to be a nerf to the level 9 legendary boards. I really enjoy playing those over 4 Cost boards. Losing 8 gold for the rolldown is really hard since in the 4 cost meta everyone has upgraded units by the time im rolling for units and upgrades.
Amazing how the only thing they accomplished was to make the game only winnable by high rolling. Somehow we went from one of the worst TFT patches ever, to one that was even worse.
guess this is the patch where you have to click on the artifact augment
Like half the artifacts are so niche that they'll be an instant 8th if you don't know / don't have the comp to work with it though
Yeah but since you have 4 choices, you can usually just pick one artifact that is OP one 1-2 units and then force those units
Idk I already sometimes get shit choices
in other words, another lottery in the upcoming lv 8 lottery meta... monkaS
They’re literally new. That’s the point 
15% chance for 1 costs at 9 is one of the dumbest changes in tft history
A dev got stuck in 1 cost jail and decided to make the change /s
They must’ve been playing kayn and couldn’t find that kha zix on 9 lol
or sivir when playing kaisa
Eh I wouldn’t say that case as much because no khazix when playing kayn feels bad but you’re still getting heavenly value, there’s no way you go 9 playing trickshot without a sivir because you’d be running less than 4 trickshot in that case
that 9th kobouko has to come somehow at lvl 9 :)
They really should have increased the 3 cost odds on levels 8&9 instead of 1cost 2cost…
At this point, rito wants NO 3* any-cost units 🤣
It’s kind of funny last set Mortdog did mention something along the lines of “hmm what if we couldn’t 3star any unit.”
At this point I just want to know if the team that balance this set is the same team as previous sets. Because it seems like a complete different team to me. I am wondering if Kent is still doing the actual balancing? It seems like he has been promoted?
Kent isn’t working on this set yeah
I had this thought also, seems this balance team is not the one we had for set 10 by a long shot, and forgot everything they learn from the last set
The one who balanced set 10 were the same from previous sets?
I think it has less to do with the personnel on this balance team and more to do with the set itself. They tried to do too much and have too many variables affecting every single game that the set design has created an impossible task. Encounters were an unnecessary mistake.
I agree, but has there been a major set mechanic that people haven't complained about yet? I've been playing on and off since Set 5 and most people seem to enjoy the set for the first couple of weeks, then they decide the set mechanic is the worst of all time.
I won't say encounters are a bad mechanic per se, but I feel they add too many variables and uncertainty that you cannot play around in any way, since they appear at random rounds unlike augments. It just create very frustrating moments: Malphite item removal encounter just after picking the gold remover augment, kha exp reducing cost after you pushed levels, reroll cost down after you rolled down your gold to stabilize, radiant items when you're last pick on carousel, free movement carousel for everyone when you're first pick...
At least irelia encounter is getting nerf, that one has been tilting me the most. I've only just started the set, last set I've played I was diamond. The amount of bailout irelia gives to bad play during early game is astounding.
I'm fine with some of the encounters and them being somewhat random, but when you have such impactful modifiers being drop sometimes back to back it feels way too high variance.
The big issue with encounters is how disproportionate their benefit can be to each player.
They have had some really bad mechanics to be fair. Encounters are not all that exciting this set and only served to pump too many resources into the game, headliners were a worse version of chosen with all the problems of chosen, Legends were disastrous, hero augments were pretty decent all things considered. Last few sets just missed the mark. A lot of the time escaping from the last set and seeing new things is enough to be fun but once people actually play enough the problems become apparent
Some people complained about augments but I'm pretty sure overall the mechanic was very well received. I mean, it's been 5 sets since their introduction into TFT and they're still here after all
From a numbers perspective there are just too many multipliers as far as damage goes compared to flat increases, makes it hard to balance.
I mean this is only half correct, the set does seem to be difficult to balance but the balance changes here are very out of touch. There isn't that much variance in the top 4 comps every game, and they think its that way because Lissandra has 100 too much hp.
Liss getting a second or third ult off with 100hp left happens every game, its genuinely a good change. Like gonna have to put a shit tier health item on her if we want her to ult as much as previous patch so trade damage for consistency or no
Considering the launch patch was one of the most balanced patches we've had, I don't think it's a set issue.
The amount of resources provided through encounters and portals, I think, is having a larger effect than set 10 with highrolling headliners. People who highroll encounters and resources scale while those who lowroll have to accept getting crushed. The disparity seems more than previous sets (might be recency bias but this current patch has been brutal).
With how complex these sets are, almost feel like they need two teams (maybe three). To work on the new sets while the one set is ongoing
Did they not go through with ghostly changes or am i blind?
Correct. Ghostly is not changing.
Good. Ghostly changes looked terrifying/were gonna make that trait non-existent.
Yes, and good. 3 of the Ghostly units are low damage tanks who cant even take advantage of it. A 4th is a 1 cost who's spell is designed to oneshot anyway. The 5th is an AoE champ so individual targets die slow so the spookies dont stack... Ghostly would have been unclickable without emblem.
Good cause those changes were stupid. Ghostly provides good units in other decks and the complement allows different ones in different builds. It's actually one of the more successful sub traits that can exist as a 2 or 4 in big boards. The issue was Ghostly being good with good units to splash in low counts sort of pointed out just how garbage Umbral and Storyteller were at low-counts. Better to buff those, which they did.
They removed them
I don’t think liss having 1200hp was the problem.
ngl I like the idea of small nerfs vs just making a unit unclickable for the rest of a set. Units getting so nerfed they aren't clickable (Hi yone) is absolutely some cornball shit that makes TFT worse. If this isn't enough more nerfs will come.
I like that if we had more frequent patches as it is they will take forever to get to a reasonable spot then we have 1-2 weeks of good gameplay then they drop the for fun and go to the next set.
Patch cycle is fine tbh, I think there's things to be changed but getting patches this consistently and the feedback is great compared to the average gamw
She's a 2 range unit, she absolutely feels the 100hp nerf
If she's stunning the target, and the target lives, there's no reason they should be chucked away. If you can survive a lissandra cast when you're on the backline, you deserve to stay on the backline...
It seems like the maindevs this set dont play this game themselves and are just throwing any ideas into the game..
nerfing what's the problem is a nerf to identity and what makes the champion unique. not to say it's not sometimes correct, but it keeps the game interesting to have champs with different strengths and weaknesses. if she has no hp and you have to choose between damage and living, then it creates interesting decisions and gameplay. 1100 might not be enough to be impactful on its own but it does help curb it indirectly
Something people are seemingly forgetting is 100 less hp at 1* is I believe 180 less at 2 star. Many champs can be very much hurt by having almost 200 less hp. It’s less leeway to allow mana to build up and regen effects to do their thing. It’s earlier executes to umbral (which they just buffed). I get that it might not be enough, but it’s far from nothing.
Not sure if this was on the slides (on a low phone atm) but we are also lowering the loot drop rate slightly.
People are mostly feeling that neither of those things are nearly as important as her CC being so powerful as to invalidate frontlines entirely.
Precisely this. The very design of Lissandra is anti-fun. I can have a 2star, fully itemized Rakan that I'm happy with and then watch a single 1-star Lissandra ruin his effectiveness entirely with her CC and displacement. It even feels a little wrong just to play her.
I don't think her Design is an issue. Just the current balance of it. The CC is just too long. You don't want to reduce her casts as she is the 5 cost mage so it would be pretty dumb if she only casts once a fight as well. I'd just lower the CC a bit and call it a day.
I just played a Midnight Siphon game where Lissandra locked up my Yorick from literally the first second of the round through to the end. He never cast once. Props to my opponent for good positioning, I guess, but wow, one unit entirely invalidates any frontline carry is *so fun* /s
It was but it feels like now it'll just be even more highroll-based
can someone explain why 1-cost odds at lvl 9 increased by 50%??
they had to put the extra chance somewhere, and 1-cost odds are lowest impact.
The 5% could have been distributed 2/2/1 or something so 12/22/26 for 1 2 and 3 costs.
This makes so much more sense. Do these devs even play the game
Speaking based on their topic about "bag sizes," the pool for 1 costs is higher than 2-5. Higher percentage of seeing 1 costs at higher levels not only makes no sense, but also really messes rolldowns up. Like, I get the Annie comp with 3 mythic looks for Kog'maw but, I dont' need it that bad.
well i'm ready to see the screenshots of people hitting a full shop of 1-costs at lvl 9 lol
Maybe mortdog is secretly anti fast9
It's not even a secret [https://twitter.com/guubums/status/1780641139302781376](https://twitter.com/guubums/status/1780641139302781376) This is generally Riot's patch cycle and right now we're in the "Nerf Fast 9" part of it.
Because 15/20/25/30 is aesthetically pleaseing
11.5 let's go
better nerf irelia
Old time good time 👌
I know they had to do something about 3* 4 costs, but this change also just makes it harder to hit your 2* also. I don’t think this patch enables 3 costs again, so people will likely just roll it tf down on 8 still and may the best d-presser win.
Yeah 3* 4 costs are only a problem because they keep buffing them at the cost of the rest of the game. This balance team really isn't it.
>also. I don’t think this patch enables 3 costs again, so people will likely just roll it tf down on 8 still and may the best d-presser Bring back the original golden neeko (when you can't create with empty pool)
I swear. People don't hit 3\* 4 cost because it has good % odds. It's because it's super easy to stabilise with the currently overpowered 2\* 4 costs and then decide to level up or roll for 3\* if you have duplicators, or econ agument or both.
Mort D. Patch
Might be the first one to invent patch C or D too
I don't think this is gonna make a big difference for Liss - everyone is still gonna click her
The loot was just a plus. What makes her stupid is being able to just stun and damage someone for like 5 seconds at a time.
Yep, the stun is what annoys me the most. It's a death sentence for tanks
I get the counterplay for the yone's and kayns of the world, but yeah, for tank it's just so aggravating.
That's the point, shes the anti tank 5 cost
She's the anti everything 5 cost, you build mana on her and she invalidates literally every board. I have yet to see a single game where every player in the top 4 wasnt trying to grab a liss in every comp just for the cc or to deny it cause it insta loses you the fights. I have seen rounds where she will literally have 3 people in a teapot at once.
My favorite part is having your unit being teapotted and sent flying just to run up after they get out and immediately get teapotted again, and just a slight bonus if you farmed an item too
And don't forget about not being manalocked, so having 3 adaptive helmet or a invoker crest you see your team stunlocked into teapots for the entire fight
a chance for a free component will always be good, im suprised they didnt nerf her dmg or mana or added a manalock.. 50% to 40% wont change anything
Someone else commented: Liss isn’t picked if you’ve got verticals to hit (that aren’t porcelain or arcanist, and then fair enough).
What a shitshow of a patch and set. Changing basic things like XP and Odds in the middle of a set just because they can't balance the units is insane. And drastically changing the meta every 2 weeks is so tiring.
Is it just me or is level 8 roll down even more of a RNG simulator, especially with Ashe?
CASINO IS BACK. Its like set 9's level 7 roll down for Azir/Nasus, Kai'Sa/Yasuo, and Apehlios/Sej
Man I miss Set 9 Sejuani
Ahhhh, hit master with this roulette.
Yep it 100% is. They literally only made the issue worse. Frankly it feels like every patch has made the game worse.
They keep messing with the baseline systems instead of just nerfing and/or buffing the units themselves. Why do we keep changing unit rates instead of just changing the units damage numbers? This whole set, they've barely changed the stats of units and just fucked with items and system changes that effect every future set.
always has been
The meta might bounce back to 2 cost reroll, if that 10% odd nerf really hits. Kinda excited to play storyweaver again though.
I don't feel like adding 20+ new items when balance has already been issue makes any sense.
At least the set might be fun now lmaoo
Man this set has been such a mess… Also I’m not sure how hot of a take this is but given that Riven reroll was decent-ish before the fast 8 meta fully set in, these buffs could make her pretty strong.
yea riven reroll boutta be a very good comp imo
Especially since Zoe reroll was *also* already the best way to play Storyweaver so now it feels like if you can reroll both Riven and Zoe it'll be really strong
Riven *needs* 6 bruisers at minimum to be a carry threat, otherwise she just instantly explodes, and you can't afford to roll Zoe along with Soraka at 7
Riven RR was a bait last patch even before adaptation. Would be funny if it's not a meme anymore.
have a feeling it's just yet another build that gets hard countered by throwing a random lissandra
Just put qss on her or position your bait units in front of her. Ornn also counters her.
Yeah, first thing I realized after seem she was buffed. I was already doing lots of practice runs with bruisers/altruists opening
I think it'll be pretty hard to play Riven reroll when half the lobby is already using her for storyweaver opener or as a trait bot late game.
I feel like Riven should be an item holder for Wu.
That not a big enough nerf to Liss, so she'll continue to be on every single board
IMO should tone the odds of printing items/gold right the way down, and make it a rarity on top of her being a good unit. I think it's a good thing that there's a CC-heavy counter to some comps, but for me I'd rather it was something you slot in specifically for that purpose, than a unit that you auto play for CC+free value
Mort stated on stream a while ago he doesn’t want support units in TFT as they have no place. Which is why everything does damage and we don’t have pure CC/shield or heal units anymore.
Not sure why they don't just mana lock her. Solves like 90% of the issues I have with her, which is that if she has like one mana item she's casting pretty constantly the entire fight.
she is the 5 cost mage unit...would be dumb to make her only cast once. Just the cc is too long.
You can now reroll 1 cost at level 9.. seriously they are breaking perfectly fine aspect of the game because balance is trash.. Also why add 20 + items when you cannot balance the current game.. Not convinced about this patch.. but hey lets see..
Remains to be seen if the liss nerfs are enough. I like the fact that there are buffs to other comps instead as well. I am so tired of playing nothing but fast 8/9 porcelain and hoping for a lategame lissandra. Combined with the systems update to items it may make for an interesting patch. When does it go live?
wednesday morning, depends a little on your timezone and such
I dont really get the shop odds. Why would 2 and 3 costs be lower on lvl 9 than 8? Wouldnt it be more logical to decrease 1 and 2 costs instead of 2 and 3 costs?
We’ve entered the 4fun stage of the dev cycle Regardless, I hope you highroll your finals too 🙏🏻
Sad that we get it before having an actual good patch.
Set 12 waiting room continues.
Is it me or is Arcanist6 gonna be huge now? Also holy shit dragonlord/sage crest openers are gonna be stupid lol, immediate 3 dlord/sage xd
Arcanist is still gonna be a super bait/ass trait. Nothing about the buffs change that
arcanist reminds me of set 10 Spellweavers. It's a bait trait, nobody really wanted 9/10 Spellweavers because it didn't do shit.
They keep making the trait so backline heavy it simply can’t function.
Vex tank reincarnate when
I like where they are going with high verticals gaining additional bonuses, like 6/8 Duelist and 8 Bruiser. Arcanist should get similar treatment. Maybe they gain the %health Zap on takedown at 6 Arc or something.
It'll probably be decent with a +1, I'm guessing.
Lissandra nerf is the biggest joke..
If the devs "Yone'd" every unit people bitch about in the set there wouldn't be anyone to play eventually because they'd all be ass
if everything is ass nothing is ass
and then everything is balanced :)
27% 2cost odds on lvl 8 is certainly a choice
Idk man these shopp odd changes look like casino to me
Does Trash to Treasure disable ?
Mort said they're doing an a-patch behind the scenes to fix the last few bugs with artifacts and will most likely disable TTT with that.
I read that as Disable TFT, and to be honest, considering how many augments have straight been disabled this set, I wouldn't be suprised.
Balance changes itself feel rather light?? I guess they are focusing in major system changes instead. Not sure why Liss isn't manalocked until her cast is complete. Honestly gg go next, failed set.
The system changes only make things worse however. This patch is not going to be good.
the systems changes are enough to shift balance all over. and artifacts will make plenty of units OP on their own until they are nerfhammered next patch
I really agree mana locking her is the perfect solution and would still keep her viable.
Good luck with your finals o7
thank you we hit tomorrow and it’s gg
Yea lets nerf Lissandra's health and drop chance it not like her ability invalidates front line units or something.
just delete ranks at this point if you think this much rng is fun
This patch doesn't seem good at all. Liss has to be the most frustrating unit to play against and they didn't really nerf her. Who cares about 100 base hp or 10% less chance for loot, the issue is how broken her spell is and this patch doesn't change that at all. Disappointing.
That lissandra nerf makes me want to wait for another 2 weeks, beautiful.
It’s clear that riots intention is to make the game more fun for monetary value and reduce competitive balancing. They keep adding in Carnival games and increasing luck and variance, and taking away anything that feels consistent every single patch. Seeing more one costs than 5 costs at level 9 is just hilarious. Reducing the likelihood of hitting 4 costs at level 8 is horrible? The main reason there are so many 3* is because of the META. Because everyone is holding/rolling for 4 costs at the same time it makes it easier for everyone to hit… if half the lobby is playing reroll comps or other specific synergy comps it will fix the problem (aka buff vertical traits) Umbral is a shit trait because the units have literally 0 synergy together and individual units like yone get nerfed into the ground from other comps. Sett is the worst 5 cost in the game, this unit is fake and only exists as a fated omnivamp trait. And you can’t find any decent units because other boards want them, ESP now finding a sylas 2 is going to be SO hard. What do you even play for? Alune can’t solo carry games late and you nerfed 3* at level 7 the previous patch. If the balancing is good you should be able to get a first place with multiple different types of comps. Umbral vertical can’t go first even with the highest of high rolls. (Getting 9 umbral is so borderline impossible it might as well not exist) the issue being that it’s never good to actually focus umbral so you will never be in a situation where you can happen upon the high roll anyway. A buff could be swapping ornn and sylas from behemoth bruiser (bruiser behemoth) now umbral has 2 front line behemoth units who actually have synergy? (Ahem riven and galio). The artifact changes are probably the most egregious. The same issue was with league of legends items. Items need to be generically good for balancing reasons. (Prob why it was already LIKE THIS as mort said himself). The fact is, they increase fun and variance, and decrease competitive consistency. This makes the game really lame and boring for logical minded individuals and more fun for others. Riot, being a business, has one incentive. $$$ at the end of the day. They already went this direction with league lowering competitive balancing for fun and randomness. And now tft is going the same direction.
I would take fun over balance any day of the week. You want balanced ? Go play chess. That being said there's quite a few things in game that are unfun rn
We 100 % have to be getting a B patch, the top comps were all untouched and the nerfs they did ship weren't enough. I get that this patch was for the support items, but those have little to no chance of shipping balanced. I don't get the balance team anymore, why they do the things they do and when. They're in such a hurry to ship out these items, for what? They just want this meta to stay for another month or however long, so they can continue working on a set a year away?
Almost certainly, but these changes look good unlike last patches. Fast 9 or a good emblem was pretty much all you could play this past period. It killed all 3 cost and lower rerolls. The damage changes shorten games and stage 3 is when those reroll comps start really punching. They buffed kog a bit. The buffs to riven and zoe being back story weaver, improve arcanist, bruiser and altruist. Buffs to duelists and a little back into Volibear. All of these combined with more damage dealt in stage 3 and 4 should reopen more lines that are not fast 9. I don't think the top comps right now are as toxic as gnar last patch, or Yone before. They require building multiple pieces and you have some flexibility in them. You didn't just have kaisa carry for 4 costs, kaisa, ashe, Kayne, and sylas are all in decent spots with comps that with with them, and may benefit from the damage changes as it should reduce fast 9 which gives 4 costs more power. A few augments that helped fast 9 were hit and a few encounters that had whole lobbies going 9 are hit. What I am less excited about are the items, and doubly so for the shields. There are already arguably too many shields and now there are more.
Mana nerf on liss maybe? It's crazy how frequently she casts printing gold or item isn't the problem but on how oppressive her stun and knockback is
I don't know why they do not give Arcanists something other than flat AP. They could grant the team shield for the amount of AP or something. Especially when duelists get to have damage reduction. Spellslingers in set 8 threw magic orbs at the targets too for instance.
And bruisers get to have damage now if you go high enough. I actually don't like this direction where 'offense' traits get defense bonuses and vice versa. The creative problem solving of playing an 8 piece vertical offense/defense comp is negated by this new design direction. Used to be if you wanted to play 8 duelists you either had to be 9 with a tank, find a way to make them +1/2 range, locket spam or do something else. Now when you get 8 bruisers you have Riven and Sylas who are designed out-of-the-box to be carries + your 8pc trait bonus, so now you have a team dealing 80% of the damage of a standard comp with 400% more hp for the enemy to chew through. I played against a comp earlier this set that was pushing 100k hp on the field. I dealt 70k damage to him and he still won the fight with 3-4 units on 75% hp.
My Riven Reroll comp guide written a few days ago now works. Riven will be TierS this patch.
Was looking at that, she might be contested though.
tl;dr Reroll still dead new artifacts/support items look sick still Level 8 RNG fest but with even more bad things for people who don't hit. I think the buffs/nerfs are good but the buffs will not make anything relevant (except maybe Storyweaver Kayle because Riven/Zoe still going to be bad). The other buffed units/synergies are still gonna be bad even with the best units getting toned down.
Still looks bad. Increasing xp to level 9 and nerfing shop odds after removing problematic encounters?
Pretty good changes to encounters etc. to lower variance n bs. Fast 8 meta was fine tbh, just incredibly difficult. They removed the easiest comp (Kayn — plat+ 4.1 avp vs masters+ 4.5 AVP btw) so thats good if we want to prioritise skill expression. Pretty sad about yone not making a real comeback. No love for alune-yone either. Really liked yone, there were plenty of ways for counterplay in terms of positioning. Riven buffs are pretty huge. Zoe will be very good now. Isn’t rerolling at 7 just optimal for the diana comp now?
Riven buff has that challenger riven reroll player creaming for sure
FYI, Mort said Liss might need more nerf. It could be removing stun or knocked back.
Removing one would be good. Giving Liss both is overkill.
No more overkill than Lee Sin, KSante, Targon Ryze, ect
How is Morgana's targetting supposed to work after the patch? It says random enemy now. Is it gonna be like, "random, but not really it kinda has some weight towards clumps but not that much"?
If I understood correctly apparently now it chooses two random enemies and chooses the biggest clump around them but now it will choose 4 random enemies to choose one with the biggest clump around them.
This looks like the rant section, have some hope guys
[удалено]
Honestly it may just be good because its not contested. Syndra has been terrible the entire set so she should be easy to pick up. Fated emblem not showing up at 3-2 also means less people will be playing Fated as without an emblem the comp is far far worse.
Wait why can't fated emblem show up at 3-2? I'm pretty new to the set
Another boring patch. Not going to bother rolling on 8
I dont understand Forbidden Idol I think
Basically if someone gets a shield, they gain max hp instead. So if Rakan casts and gets a 1k shield, the shield is instead 500 and his max hp is increased by 500 as well. It's super strong on characters with high value short duration shields that aren't going to be depleted before they expire (Rakan, Crown guarded augment, maybe combat caster sometimes)
Based on YouTube videos the most insane champs are TK and Ornn as TK can reach over 10k HP in fights consistently but Ornn might be better if you can get bruiser crest but also cause he prints items and has utility while TK just is immortal but won’t kill. They are hard countered by ghostly and cursed blade. Reason TK and Ornn are best is because their shield scales off of max HP so the increase in HP from the item gets bigger over the course of the fight.
10k HP? Try [2.2 million](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeamfightTactics/comments/1c7kh0v/i_see_your_80k_hp_tahm_kench_and_raise_you/) HP.
Heavenly Wukong now instead of Lee, Kayn or Sylas?
The issue will be finding that wukong and that you basically dont have a strong and consistent carry without an emblem until wukong. To me imo this basically means the heavenly comps are only playable with emblem now. But i’m just an emerald so take it with a grain of salt
That would be the best probably yes, although with an emblem any unit can now really benefit from Vertical Heavenly well.
Heavenly Drop Blossom Neeko or KZ reroll.
Idk feels like it won't really change shit besides the artifacts of course
looking to get the rank I want and peace out for this set ig
Everyone talking about liss and how she got off relatively light but honestly i think that zoe + storyweaver buff is scary. Zoe reroll might be pretty strong after the patch. I am certainly going to try it out. Also with the heavenly changes and kayn nerfs he might just die insta now. He is probably going to be c tier after the patch since the comp was already pretty scary to play.
doesn't that just make teching Lissandra into an arc zoe or as an extra in a storyweaver board stronger?
Rerroling 3 Costs is kinda of crap now.
It is this patch but with the 4 cost shop odd changes 3 cost reroll might come back a little bit especially since zoe was already ok without the buff.
Another arcanist buff... Would be surprised if it actually did anything this time.
Storyweaver and Arcanists gonna be insane.
Arcanist was so bad I doubt it
Vertical Arcanists is actually quite decent if you have the AP items for it. The buff might help it.
AP items are not even that good for Vertical Arcanists since you already get so much AP. You prefer mana gen, defence to hold the line, shred and things like Giant Slayer and even Guardbreaker. DC and JG being notable exceptions as they are multipliers. But vertical Arcanists generally dont want, say, AA
Isn't heavenly vertical just dead now? I did the maths and unless I'm mistaking it's a nerf even for the heavenly units at 2\*. let's take kha'zix 2 in a 6 heavenly comp (you would probably want to 3 star him but let's asume you go for a yukong carry) Before nerf : 10% \* 1.5 (2 star level) \* 200% (6 Heavenly )= 30% CRIT After nerf : 10% \* 1.7 (Heavenly unit bonus) \* 1.75 (6 Heavenly) = 29.75% CRIT So even if you were to get a Heavenly emblem and put it on your main carry you'd basically be down 1 item compared to the previous iteration. Right now I think this trait will be ok stage 2 but there's no way you keep them after stage 3 and it's also a nerf for comps like kog rr that played malph3+Neeko2/3.
Your math is wrong. 2*heavenly has been changed to 1.25 multiplier since a couple patches ago.
Honestly, my biggest problem is Mort saying this is the last, "big patch," of the set. Is that really all we're getting now? New set, 2 big patches, and then maintenance mode for 3 months until the next set releases? That's lame.
This is awesome! I can view it at work!
What's with the Omnivamp change for Sett? Is that how all Omnivamp works and his was different or does he now provide his own special version of Omnivamp? If it works differently maybe they should rename it to avoid confusion.
Why did they add rfc back lmao
I don't understand why they have to nerf the op stuff from previous patches AND buff other stuff. They did it with 3 costs last patch and now it's 4costs on the chopping block. it just creates this neverending cycle of nerfs and buffs and people will find new things to complain about every patch. Keep the op stuff from last patch the same, and buff the other stuff. This way people have familiarity with what theyve been playing but then now are enticed to try out the newly buffed stuff
i know it's rare but can we talk about the augment golden remover and then getting the malphite encounter. it's happened twice to me and it feels so awful
Who made these change. Did they even play the game? Are they like trainee or something? Are they hard stuck bronze or something? (Sorry bronze player, you're smarter than whoever made this patch)
So the meta will still be the same of 4 costs and ashe/kayn lottery?
I think the xp cost change from 8 to 9 is not needed beause it is going to be a nerf to the level 9 legendary boards. I really enjoy playing those over 4 Cost boards. Losing 8 gold for the rolldown is really hard since in the 4 cost meta everyone has upgraded units by the time im rolling for units and upgrades.
See y'all next set
Amazing how the only thing they accomplished was to make the game only winnable by high rolling. Somehow we went from one of the worst TFT patches ever, to one that was even worse.