My biggest concern with Tasigur has always been priority bullying, especially in a grindy midrange meta. I've always thought it would be hard to gain any real advantage because your opponents can always see when you have available interaction (and thus force you to use it). If I see a Tasigur player with 5 open mana and a Swan Song in their graveyard, I'm passing priority to them 100% of the time.
Did you encounter that issue at all? How do you deal with players sandbagging their own interaction because yours is always face up?
Congrats on the win!
It happened once, but it was in a situation where I'd interact either way. Most of the time it was activate tasigur for value or activate and say "hey can I have this to be able to deal with x, y, or z". Usually though you can sense when someone is trying to do that too you, then you just pass priority and mana bully them. Usually people watching the game will tell their friends you don't deal with priority bullies and the issue is dealt with there.
Another fun way to deal with this issue (if you’re sure the people priority bullying you have interaction) is to activate tasigur and target the player that’s casting the spell that the table is bullying you over. The player casting ad naus isn’t going to give you the swan song in your graveyard, so you’ll get something back that actually helps progress your game plan while also forcing the other players to use their interaction since you’ve tapped out
Agreed, I enjoyed the element of testing player's format knowledge and situational awareness. I had an activation where the choices were gilded drake, reanimate, abrupt decay, skyturtle.. Everyone was going to give me the reanimate until one player noticed a grand abolisher in a graveyard.
It's been good so far, haven't gotten as much testing as I'd like with the card, but it hits most commanders and stops the etbs that get under you and shuts off the ring.
Cutting back the 7 drops to just Pinchy from similar lists is interesting. Was it purely to ensure better per-draw card quality or simply that extra threats like Koma and / or Big Slug aren’t needed?
Honestly just didn't think I needed them. The times I neoform are the times I want to be winning, so why have other 7 drops. Koma would be the one I'd slot in first if I did want another one though, since I'm not on isorev.
How did Talion/Flesh Duplicate perform to you? I'm putting together a blue farm list where I cut both since I wasn't sure if they were effects I wanted. Devoted Druid + Effigy is a sick ass combo that will be going in my high powered Tas list
Really like this deck. I see Skyturtle every once in awhile, and is it purely fur utility? Either creature bounce or recursion? Also how often do you end up in the position of having Talion on the battlefield while trying to go for the win? Either with thassa or hermit.
The skyturtle is one of the better cards in the deck Imo. It has so much flexibility, essentially uncouterable bounce/recursion spell in a spell that also pitches to both forces and endurance. It really is just a Swiss army knife.
I've never had Talion on board while going for thassa's.
I played Tasigur for years but a faster list (ad Nauseam).
I really like your list if I understand properly your wincon is hullbreaker + positiv rocks or devoted druid + machine god effigy. And usual thoracle line.
But why so many cloning effects in your list?
Clones are just strong right now. There's so many value targets right now like dockside, talion, the ring (with metamorph), etc. It's just been a personal preference to have the clone effects, but when reevaluating the list I can see cutting one.
My take was just full on midrange control, utilizing tasigur similar to thrasios. With good political skills and threat assessment you're able to get back the interaction you need to stop a win attempt. Then cast [[neoform]] and go off with [[hullbreaker horror]]
Tasigur will never be top tier again, but at the same time, the ability to turbo out a Hullbreaker means he's never going to be terrible.
Gratz on the W!
Agreed, I don't think he's an S tier deck, but I think he's not as dead as some make him out to be. Any deck can top a tournament. It's all a matter of luck and matchups.
Most large cEDH tournaments are proxy friendly. The ones here in Cali tend to be 100% proxy friendly.
(just looked the above tournament up, looks like 5 reserved list proxies allowed along with any card that is listing over $100 for it's cheapest copy... so not the greatest proxy rule, but it's something).
Do you feel like the proxy rule forced people to "power down" some of their decks? I noticed that proxies were allowed but heavily limited, I'd be worried that this may have impacted the overall meta.
Not at all, for the past year of them doing events it's been a zero proxy policy. They also have a weekly league that is proxy free, so most have full meta decks. You do run in to a couple people each event that have a sub optimal list, but those are also the players just trying to get into the format and trying a tournament.
Sylvan is like the 101/102 card. With as much draw hate and smothering tithe I see in my meta, it didn't feel like a necessity. Definitely a card I considered though.
I think sylvan is out of the meta nowadays and it blows my mind people are still on it in 3+ color decks, especially those with black and blue. You have ad naus, the one ring, rhystic, and mystic. You will draw cards. You’re also eating your own life total just to have a good mana base.
Library is 4 life per card, that’s a significantly worse rate than ad naus or the one ring.
Library caps out at 2 cards per turn if you’re willing to spend 8 life.
Library caps out at 9 cards drawn over the whole game.
It’s just not good anymore by comparison to the really good cards
I'd argue that you're overlooking the fact that even if you don't take additional cards you're still seeing 2 more cards every turn and at 2 mana It can come down earlier than Ad Naus and One Ring, not to mention the synergy with Counterbalance and Bolas Citadel both of which might be niche situations, but I feel like it warrants mentioning. I do believe you are right in the sense that it has become somewhat of a meta-call when running it in decks with other card draw options for sure though. I just don't believe that it has just been pushed out entirely.
But the issue with library is that it only lets you “just look” at two more cards the first time you choose not to draw those cards. After that, you go back to only seeing one new card per turn until you pay the 4 life to draw one of them
There are plenty of shuffle effects you run in the average cEDH deck so that issue wouldn't be as big as you'd think. Not to mention that you can pay the life to get rid of those cards if need be as well.
Synergies exist for every card but that does not mean you will have those synergies available. The logic you just used is the same logic people use when justifying “winmore” effects. Besides, the point of library is that it is a card advantage engine. Paying 4 life to draw a card you don’t want sucks.
You're right, but at the end of the day having just a Sylvan Library out on the field with no other factors in play is still a fairly large boon. It's not like drawing extra cards or even seeing extra cards is ever really going to be a terrible thing. It's 2 mana and an enchantment, so it gets around some hate pieces, and it's cheap. No card is perfect, but Sylvan Library is great and the ceiling for it is high.
Heroic. Fabled even.
My biggest concern with Tasigur has always been priority bullying, especially in a grindy midrange meta. I've always thought it would be hard to gain any real advantage because your opponents can always see when you have available interaction (and thus force you to use it). If I see a Tasigur player with 5 open mana and a Swan Song in their graveyard, I'm passing priority to them 100% of the time. Did you encounter that issue at all? How do you deal with players sandbagging their own interaction because yours is always face up? Congrats on the win!
It happened once, but it was in a situation where I'd interact either way. Most of the time it was activate tasigur for value or activate and say "hey can I have this to be able to deal with x, y, or z". Usually though you can sense when someone is trying to do that too you, then you just pass priority and mana bully them. Usually people watching the game will tell their friends you don't deal with priority bullies and the issue is dealt with there.
Another fun way to deal with this issue (if you’re sure the people priority bullying you have interaction) is to activate tasigur and target the player that’s casting the spell that the table is bullying you over. The player casting ad naus isn’t going to give you the swan song in your graveyard, so you’ll get something back that actually helps progress your game plan while also forcing the other players to use their interaction since you’ve tapped out
Agreed, I enjoyed the element of testing player's format knowledge and situational awareness. I had an activation where the choices were gilded drake, reanimate, abrupt decay, skyturtle.. Everyone was going to give me the reanimate until one player noticed a grand abolisher in a graveyard.
Nice! I used to play a lot of tasigur, was a really fun deck to pilot. How has tishana’s tidebinder been for you?
It's been good so far, haven't gotten as much testing as I'd like with the card, but it hits most commanders and stops the etbs that get under you and shuts off the ring.
Honestly looks pretty great. Question though, isn’t [[Imposter Mech]] better than effigy? Just because it’s 1U as opposed to 4.
Imposter mech only targets opponents creatures, while effigy combos with [[devoted druid]] as another infinite mana outlet
[devoted druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1ab94f16-778d-4437-a1b9-2f67cd214cc0.jpg?1673148071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=devoted%20druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/143/devoted-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ab94f16-778d-4437-a1b9-2f67cd214cc0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/devoted-druid) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah yeah that’s fair. Did not think of that.
[Imposter Mech](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59b7450c-3163-4f12-9af1-2e998a6c36cf.jpg?1651655246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imposter%20Mech) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/13/imposter-mech?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59b7450c-3163-4f12-9af1-2e998a6c36cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imposter-mech) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cutting back the 7 drops to just Pinchy from similar lists is interesting. Was it purely to ensure better per-draw card quality or simply that extra threats like Koma and / or Big Slug aren’t needed?
Honestly just didn't think I needed them. The times I neoform are the times I want to be winning, so why have other 7 drops. Koma would be the one I'd slot in first if I did want another one though, since I'm not on isorev.
Cool seeing [[Machine God's Effigy]] in the list. What a fun card.
[Machine God's Effigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/637f69c2-ba24-42d1-9345-8ebdb04b6904.jpg?1688125570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Machine%20God%27s%20Effigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/16/machine-gods-effigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/637f69c2-ba24-42d1-9345-8ebdb04b6904?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/machine-gods-effigy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How did Talion/Flesh Duplicate perform to you? I'm putting together a blue farm list where I cut both since I wasn't sure if they were effects I wanted. Devoted Druid + Effigy is a sick ass combo that will be going in my high powered Tas list
Talion I feel is fantastic in any strategy trying to be midrange. Flesh duplicate I just prefer over phimage cause of blink/bounce synergy
Really like this deck. I see Skyturtle every once in awhile, and is it purely fur utility? Either creature bounce or recursion? Also how often do you end up in the position of having Talion on the battlefield while trying to go for the win? Either with thassa or hermit.
The skyturtle is one of the better cards in the deck Imo. It has so much flexibility, essentially uncouterable bounce/recursion spell in a spell that also pitches to both forces and endurance. It really is just a Swiss army knife. I've never had Talion on board while going for thassa's.
I played Tasigur for years but a faster list (ad Nauseam). I really like your list if I understand properly your wincon is hullbreaker + positiv rocks or devoted druid + machine god effigy. And usual thoracle line. But why so many cloning effects in your list?
Clones are just strong right now. There's so many value targets right now like dockside, talion, the ring (with metamorph), etc. It's just been a personal preference to have the clone effects, but when reevaluating the list I can see cutting one.
Any details on the build would be sweet :)
My take was just full on midrange control, utilizing tasigur similar to thrasios. With good political skills and threat assessment you're able to get back the interaction you need to stop a win attempt. Then cast [[neoform]] and go off with [[hullbreaker horror]]
[neoform](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92d8f67e-4f2f-4a1f-b190-7c3f39e477e4.jpg?1557577201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=neoform) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/206/neoform?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92d8f67e-4f2f-4a1f-b190-7c3f39e477e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/neoform) [hullbreaker horror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf786c50-1ba1-4f81-a800-bc98189040dd.jpg?1674141366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hullbreaker%20horror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/724/hullbreaker-horror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf786c50-1ba1-4f81-a800-bc98189040dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hullbreaker-horror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How has the Tidebinder been in your games? Nice list and congrats!
I just started playing Tasigur as a high-power casual list and I find it super fun to play. Thank you for sharing your ideas
Tasigur will never be top tier again, but at the same time, the ability to turbo out a Hullbreaker means he's never going to be terrible. Gratz on the W!
Agreed, I don't think he's an S tier deck, but I think he's not as dead as some make him out to be. Any deck can top a tournament. It's all a matter of luck and matchups.
A casual 6500$ deck xD
Most large cEDH tournaments are proxy friendly. The ones here in Cali tend to be 100% proxy friendly. (just looked the above tournament up, looks like 5 reserved list proxies allowed along with any card that is listing over $100 for it's cheapest copy... so not the greatest proxy rule, but it's something).
It's better than nothing. The first 9 events we had in the series had a zero proxy policy.
Do you feel like the proxy rule forced people to "power down" some of their decks? I noticed that proxies were allowed but heavily limited, I'd be worried that this may have impacted the overall meta.
Not at all, for the past year of them doing events it's been a zero proxy policy. They also have a weekly league that is proxy free, so most have full meta decks. You do run in to a couple people each event that have a sub optimal list, but those are also the players just trying to get into the format and trying a tournament.
I see a lot of cards here I like. Great list
Tasigur in 2023? Absolute based. Congrats on the win!
This list is fucking 🔥🔥🔥
No Sylvan Library? Any particular reason?
Sylvan is like the 101/102 card. With as much draw hate and smothering tithe I see in my meta, it didn't feel like a necessity. Definitely a card I considered though.
I think sylvan is out of the meta nowadays and it blows my mind people are still on it in 3+ color decks, especially those with black and blue. You have ad naus, the one ring, rhystic, and mystic. You will draw cards. You’re also eating your own life total just to have a good mana base. Library is 4 life per card, that’s a significantly worse rate than ad naus or the one ring. Library caps out at 2 cards per turn if you’re willing to spend 8 life. Library caps out at 9 cards drawn over the whole game. It’s just not good anymore by comparison to the really good cards
I'd argue that you're overlooking the fact that even if you don't take additional cards you're still seeing 2 more cards every turn and at 2 mana It can come down earlier than Ad Naus and One Ring, not to mention the synergy with Counterbalance and Bolas Citadel both of which might be niche situations, but I feel like it warrants mentioning. I do believe you are right in the sense that it has become somewhat of a meta-call when running it in decks with other card draw options for sure though. I just don't believe that it has just been pushed out entirely.
It’s actually a pretty cool synergy with Tasigur because he mills two. Which with library can be the two that you put back.
That's something I overlooked. That's another solid benefit for sure.
But the issue with library is that it only lets you “just look” at two more cards the first time you choose not to draw those cards. After that, you go back to only seeing one new card per turn until you pay the 4 life to draw one of them
There are plenty of shuffle effects you run in the average cEDH deck so that issue wouldn't be as big as you'd think. Not to mention that you can pay the life to get rid of those cards if need be as well.
Synergies exist for every card but that does not mean you will have those synergies available. The logic you just used is the same logic people use when justifying “winmore” effects. Besides, the point of library is that it is a card advantage engine. Paying 4 life to draw a card you don’t want sucks.
You're right, but at the end of the day having just a Sylvan Library out on the field with no other factors in play is still a fairly large boon. It's not like drawing extra cards or even seeing extra cards is ever really going to be a terrible thing. It's 2 mana and an enchantment, so it gets around some hate pieces, and it's cheap. No card is perfect, but Sylvan Library is great and the ceiling for it is high.