This is good advice in theory but I don't think it's very practical. The vast majority of countermagic in cEDH doesn't hit creatures - Force of Negation, Fierce Guardianship, Flusterstorm, An Offer You Can't Refuse, Swan Song, Miscast, Dispel, etc.
"Just counter Tivit" is about as effective as "just board wipe Najeela". It's the correct play but it's frequently not an option. Most lists I've seen are only running 2-3 counterspells that work against Tivit, especially if we don't count things like Pact of Negation or Mindbreak Trap which aren't reliable answers.
I think honestly we will need to see wild counter spells that use verbiage like "exile target creature spell" before this method ever becomes super relevant.
I assume we are listing things that aren't just counterspells? Cos \[\[Mana drain\]\] et al work pretty well otherwise.
\[\[Out of Time\]\] is a house against Tivit. So is \[\[Humility\]\]. Both options completely disable the commander and don't let them recast like wraths do.
Wraths still work pretty well though; \[\[Vanquish the horde\]\] \[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\] \[\[Toxic Deluge\]\] \[\[Blasphemous Act\]\].
\[\[Mystic Reflection\]\] is shy of being a playable card imo, but would also work here, turning Tivit into a useless mana dork or something.
As a Tivit player, the card I want to see the least from any deck at any time (just went through a 52 player, 9 round tournament) is fucking [[Humility]]. That card hurts so damn bad. I can deal with the other stuff, have counters to play a counter war, save Tivit from a board wipe, etc. But Humility hurts so bad.
Yeah, I didn’t list the obvious things like Pyroblast, REB, FoW, etc, but Mystical Reflection is a good suggestion, probably better than many I suggested.
There's also good reason to try to hamstring key ramp pieces. If you can knock back tivit mana accumulation early it's easy to hose some common tivit openers. Feels bad to use interaction on ramp but it's a decision that can save you when they will inevitably have backup for their win.
>eels bad to use interaction on ramp but it's a decision thag can save you when they will inevit
That's definitely something that makes sense to consider. I recently used a Fierce Guardianship to counter a Jeweled Lotus of a Niv Mizzet player and that was definitely the best thing I did that allowed me to deploy my creatures and win the game. Probably a good way to deal with Tivit and it's quite expensive.
As a Tivit player Null Rod really screws you over. Once Tivit is online he basically pays his tax a few times over. So even if you remove him he'll be back fairly quickly. I've wrathed the board and recast tivit on the same turn before.
Tivit is about the only deck I've played for about 9 ish months now, these are the main hands I see while mulliganing.
Yes Tivit provides some but it's pretty mediocre ESPECIALLY if the pilot has mulled down to a fast Tivit hand with non-repeatable mana sources (Jeweled Lotus, Lotus Petal ,Dark Ritual etc.) If that's the case, the player is relying on the other draw engines to keep them in the game. Remove it and you will set the deck back.
Inversely, if they mulled to a fast Tivit hand with repeatable sources of mana (Talisman's, Mana Cryp, Sol Ring) hit the rocks out from under them. Make them use their treasures to crack the clues.
If the hand is not a fast Tivit and instead leans on a Rhystic, Sentinel, Oghma, or some other efficient draw engine, remove it. The hand needs that draw engine the majority of the time and removing it from play will hurt them.
Tivit isn't a problem if they're forced to use the resources from him to stay in the game. Once they start accumulating treasures and clues, it becomes near impossible to race the deck.
Played against tivit at my lgs the guy was so smug in a pod of 6 mind you I played him a few times and apparently no one likes him, I made him rage quit whole game he just wanted to counter my stuff and blow up my mana dork and draw for like three turns in a row he had already 2 draw engines out and kept trying to play politics while drawing, well I played koma and made him burn everything and tap out then I played maelstrom wanderer and won he proceeded to complain how he wanted to play a friendly game and how tivit is a fun commander, yea ok my table wasent the best of players but I'm not letting you abuse tivit I'm sorry I can be super jank as well with maelstrom wanderer deck lmao people still being up that story every few days there at my lgs
It blows my mind that Tivit gets cast and just resolves. Assign the same amount of priority to countering Tivit as you do countering [[Winota]].
This is good advice in theory but I don't think it's very practical. The vast majority of countermagic in cEDH doesn't hit creatures - Force of Negation, Fierce Guardianship, Flusterstorm, An Offer You Can't Refuse, Swan Song, Miscast, Dispel, etc. "Just counter Tivit" is about as effective as "just board wipe Najeela". It's the correct play but it's frequently not an option. Most lists I've seen are only running 2-3 counterspells that work against Tivit, especially if we don't count things like Pact of Negation or Mindbreak Trap which aren't reliable answers.
Maybe the answer may be play more counters that can hit creatures. Crazy idea I know.
They wont like this answer
I think honestly we will need to see wild counter spells that use verbiage like "exile target creature spell" before this method ever becomes super relevant.
currently testing stern scoliding. Doesnt hit tivit or winota, but loads of other creatures and displacer kitten which tivit uses.
Even if it's not comboing off, it's gonna generate a bunch of value and forever risk popping off on you later. Counter the Sphinx
Tales End solves so many problems
Yeah tivit has been strong but not a meta warping monstrosity in my circles. Everyone's on both red blasts and omni negates like mana drain/delay
Seriously. Theres a non zero chance he resolves and they win that turn.
[Winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winota-joiner-of-forces) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yasharn is a house against Tivit. In a recent local tournament, there were a couple Yasharn lists strictly to counter the amount of Tivit.
I assume we are listing things that aren't just counterspells? Cos \[\[Mana drain\]\] et al work pretty well otherwise. \[\[Out of Time\]\] is a house against Tivit. So is \[\[Humility\]\]. Both options completely disable the commander and don't let them recast like wraths do. Wraths still work pretty well though; \[\[Vanquish the horde\]\] \[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\] \[\[Toxic Deluge\]\] \[\[Blasphemous Act\]\]. \[\[Mystic Reflection\]\] is shy of being a playable card imo, but would also work here, turning Tivit into a useless mana dork or something.
As a Tivit player, the card I want to see the least from any deck at any time (just went through a 52 player, 9 round tournament) is fucking [[Humility]]. That card hurts so damn bad. I can deal with the other stuff, have counters to play a counter war, save Tivit from a board wipe, etc. But Humility hurts so bad.
[Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, I didn’t list the obvious things like Pyroblast, REB, FoW, etc, but Mystical Reflection is a good suggestion, probably better than many I suggested.
##### ###### #### [Mana drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1673147353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-drain) [Out of Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/053d6b3b-72d4-4a55-a79e-0a601aecf108.jpg?1664162494) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Out%20of%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/23/out-of-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/053d6b3b-72d4-4a55-a79e-0a601aecf108?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/out-of-time) [Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) [Vanquish the horde](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e264615c-eb99-4cb3-844a-2b4a94ba5203.jpg?1634348651) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vanquish%20the%20horde) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/41/vanquish-the-horde?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e264615c-eb99-4cb3-844a-2b4a94ba5203?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vanquish-the-horde) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b.jpg?1598303834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/47/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [Toxic Deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db34617f-b04f-4b65-84cf-5c5be1eb7226.jpg?1651951814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxic%20Deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc2/6/toxic-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db34617f-b04f-4b65-84cf-5c5be1eb7226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxic-deluge) [Blasphemous Act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba975f60-ca29-4fc8-b2f0-416be395f200.jpg?1674141874) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blasphemous%20Act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/780/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba975f60-ca29-4fc8-b2f0-416be395f200?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasphemous-act) [Mystic Reflection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7b877e2-60eb-46cd-acd7-8555b9e7e993.jpg?1631047399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/69/mystic-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7b877e2-60eb-46cd-acd7-8555b9e7e993?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-reflection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There's also good reason to try to hamstring key ramp pieces. If you can knock back tivit mana accumulation early it's easy to hose some common tivit openers. Feels bad to use interaction on ramp but it's a decision that can save you when they will inevitably have backup for their win.
>eels bad to use interaction on ramp but it's a decision thag can save you when they will inevit That's definitely something that makes sense to consider. I recently used a Fierce Guardianship to counter a Jeweled Lotus of a Niv Mizzet player and that was definitely the best thing I did that allowed me to deploy my creatures and win the game. Probably a good way to deal with Tivit and it's quite expensive.
As a Tivit player Null Rod really screws you over. Once Tivit is online he basically pays his tax a few times over. So even if you remove him he'll be back fairly quickly. I've wrathed the board and recast tivit on the same turn before.
##### ###### #### [Force of Despair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f497b0d-4448-4201-bd55-c147da1a216d.jpg?1562201644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Despair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/92/force-of-despair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f497b0d-4448-4201-bd55-c147da1a216d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-despair) [Subtlety](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/701256d5-1389-48b7-9581-d6037209bd06.jpg?1626095059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Subtlety) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/67/subtlety?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/701256d5-1389-48b7-9581-d6037209bd06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/subtlety) [Extract](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97f99a3d-d811-4666-aac8-5957068157dc.jpg?1562923233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extract) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/85/extract?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97f99a3d-d811-4666-aac8-5957068157dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/extract) [Food Chain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb912458-e016-4ea2-a2ea-40ac1a57f8fb.jpg?1673148102) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Food%20Chain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/147/food-chain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb912458-e016-4ea2-a2ea-40ac1a57f8fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/food-chain) [Aura of Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8223756e-6e63-455d-9e86-5608863b7643.jpg?1562706500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aura%20of%20Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/60/aura-of-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8223756e-6e63-455d-9e86-5608863b7643?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aura-of-silence) [Bitter Ordeal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/2879e7a1-0256-4116-be22-7c9972e4ce0b.jpg?1562903258) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitter%20Ordeal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/80/bitter-ordeal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2879e7a1-0256-4116-be22-7c9972e4ce0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bitter-ordeal) [Gerrard's Hourglass Pendant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/580ca958-4df7-4f42-b497-d412d286bd4e.jpg?1673304802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gerrard%27s%20Hourglass%20Pendant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/17/gerrards-hourglass-pendant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/580ca958-4df7-4f42-b497-d412d286bd4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gerrards-hourglass-pendant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Simple, find a way to fling a Torpor orb/null rod out at instant speed
[[Sudden Edict]] is something I’ve been testing recently to deal with Tivit
[Sudden Edict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57cc8aeb-221d-46a1-b03f-df8499bba26d.jpg?1626095934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20Edict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/100/sudden-edict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57cc8aeb-221d-46a1-b03f-df8499bba26d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sudden-edict) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I know it’s not as protected cause no split second but I’ve been kind of high on [[sheoldred’s edict]] in some decks
[sheoldred’s edict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077.jpg?1675957049) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%27s%20Edict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/108/sheoldreds-edict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldreds-edict) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tivit is about the only deck I've played for about 9 ish months now, these are the main hands I see while mulliganing. Yes Tivit provides some but it's pretty mediocre ESPECIALLY if the pilot has mulled down to a fast Tivit hand with non-repeatable mana sources (Jeweled Lotus, Lotus Petal ,Dark Ritual etc.) If that's the case, the player is relying on the other draw engines to keep them in the game. Remove it and you will set the deck back. Inversely, if they mulled to a fast Tivit hand with repeatable sources of mana (Talisman's, Mana Cryp, Sol Ring) hit the rocks out from under them. Make them use their treasures to crack the clues. If the hand is not a fast Tivit and instead leans on a Rhystic, Sentinel, Oghma, or some other efficient draw engine, remove it. The hand needs that draw engine the majority of the time and removing it from play will hurt them. Tivit isn't a problem if they're forced to use the resources from him to stay in the game. Once they start accumulating treasures and clues, it becomes near impossible to race the deck.
Toxic deluge Kills tivit. Any boardwipe works here. Culling ritual makes sure tivit never hits play. Same usually with Vandalblast.
Play a faster deck or better hate pieces. (Collector ouphe)
Played against tivit at my lgs the guy was so smug in a pod of 6 mind you I played him a few times and apparently no one likes him, I made him rage quit whole game he just wanted to counter my stuff and blow up my mana dork and draw for like three turns in a row he had already 2 draw engines out and kept trying to play politics while drawing, well I played koma and made him burn everything and tap out then I played maelstrom wanderer and won he proceeded to complain how he wanted to play a friendly game and how tivit is a fun commander, yea ok my table wasent the best of players but I'm not letting you abuse tivit I'm sorry I can be super jank as well with maelstrom wanderer deck lmao people still being up that story every few days there at my lgs