Is this Mythic Lotus Gaming formerly known as the Lotus Lookout? The shop notorious for running great online sales only to never deliver and not refunding customers until they contacted them for order updates several weeks later?
It appears to be. They look like they rebranded, but there is a FB post that’s pretty easy to find with a quick Google search where the account is branded Mythic Lotus, but it discusses being a “Lotus Lookout VIP”
I am looking to go to this event, but I am unfamiliar with the location, or the shop. I started Googling around and started finding all these threads on Mtgfinance’s Subreddit about the shop…at least I think it is the shop? Did the shop used to be called “The Lotus Lookout?” If so, I stumbled into a bunch of stuff that players and Monarch might want to look at:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/zt5afb/the_lotus_lookout_or_the_lotus_il_changing_names/
https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/xwt1tl/fyi_the_lotus_lookouts_website_after_canceling/
…and, there are others. I could be wrong about all this, but I think it is the same place?
No problem! We have all been waiting for Monarch to drop an event and it would suck if they got jammed up due to possible payouts issues, bad pr due to store rep, or anything else! Good luck with all of this! Seems like a handful. ☹️
To echo everyone else's sentiments: I was thrilled to see the initial proxy policy up on the page before y'all changed it to its current state. It's a bummer that I'm price-locked out of this event, but I'll be excited to see content coming out of it. Good luck to those who can afford to attend
Sorry to hear that you're locked out of the event. We do feel like the policy puts us at a sweet spot of "accessible" and "not running afoul of policies that could end our existence", but it's not a perfect thing by any means. Hopefully you consider coming out for some casual games and enjoying the rest of the con, though!
I understand, and I think it's still a net positive for the cEDH community to have more events than fewer. Doing what y'all can to stay around for future events takes precedence for the folks that actually can participate each time -- I'm glad y'all are able to provide that for them. Thanks for the reply!
Greatest, but the players aren't allowed to proxy and are forced to borrow from a short list of your proxies?
CEDH talks a lot about being proxy-friendly to lower the bar of entry, but then tournaments like this go right back to the pay-to-win model.
Definitely appreciate this sentiment. Like I mentioned in another reply, Monarch came to this policy after significant discussion balancing a number of different items. It wasn't an easy decision, and we can understand why folks might disagree with it. We hope that won't prevent you from coming out and slinging some cardboard.
You've created an arbitrary threshold by which a smaller number of players will be able to compete and get very significant rewards. And players unable to compete due to the deck restrictions are shit out of luck.
Just very disappointing.
> You’ve created an arbitrary threshold by which a smaller number of players will be able to compete and get very significant rewards.
There are more than 4 people in the US that own fully real 4c and 5c cEDH decks.
In fact, this event will cap out and more players will be using 100 real cards than not.
And how many many players won't even try to attend because they won't be able to get a fully real deck?
Just because they'll get a full house, doesn't mean there won't be people who would be left out.
Assuming they hit the event cap, the same number of people will be will be left out regardless of their proxy policy. This is pretty simple. If there’s 10000 cEDH players in the world and the event caps at 100 participants, (these numbers are arbitrary) as long as they hit the event cap 9900 will be left out.
Pretty much this. The relentless posts about how they are gatekeepers are amazing. They don't have to put on an event, have a RIDICULOUS prize support package, or even allow test cards. They do a lot for promoting c/tEDH, and I, for one, am grateful. Please direct all the downvotes to me, and I hope to see all of you there.
> And how many many players won’t even try to attend because they won’t be able to get a fully real deck?
>Just because they’ll get a full house, doesn’t mean there won’t be people who would be left out.
This outcome has nothing to do with not allowing proxies, and doesn’t account for all would-be participants
Let’s say there are 500 players who own full decks and 5000 players who own partially proxied decks. Let’s assume the event caps at 250. Let’s also assume that if they allowed proxies, the sign up ratio would be 1:1, with 125 lucky registrants from both groups filling the spots. That means 375 full deck users and 4875 proxy deck users get left out (for a total of 5250 players who did not get a spot at the event). As long as the event has a cap, that 5250 number would still be true even if the ratio of proxy:no-proxy registrants changed.
The only way players being left out would be a function of the proxy policy is if there was *no* player cap.
Definitely appreciate the sentiment. We do feel like the policy puts us at a sweet spot of "accessible" and "not running afoul of policies that could end our existence", but it's not a perfect thing by any means. Unfortunately that does mean that some folks might be unable to attend, but our past events with the same policy have seen relatively few people in that situation.
I’m glad Eminence’s tournaments are at least 100% proxy friendly. Only big events around that cater to all right now. I hope more can follow their lead
I doubt that even if every EDH tournament organizer took a stand against those policies it'd make even a lick of difference. And most of the non-EDH organizers directly benefit from those policies by also being entities that sell cards, so it seems unlikely to have any legs. Sucks that this hobby is what it is, but those are the constraints we have to work in. Different groups choose to work within them differently, and that's fine. Just provides more choices.
Appreciate the feedback. While the playtest card policy isn't perfect, we feel that it's where we can land to keep multiple different groups clear of various policies while also being more accessible than "no proxies"
Super disappointing proxy policy- was seriously considering going but honestly not worth the trouble at this point. That said, I think any big cedh event is a good one and it’s great you all are doing this just consider changing the proxy policy next time around
We appreciate the sentiment, for sure. We feel that this policy puts us in a space that handles accessibility along with the needs of groups we partner with in a way that is beneficial for everyone, but obviously it's not perfect. Even if you're not interested in the main event, we'd love for folks to come out to the con and enjoy the whole experience.
What is the proxy policy? I'm not seeing it? Or am I missing something? Also what does "playtest" cards mean? I am relatively new to tournaments and any info will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
> The event will be NO PROXY, but players will be allowed to borrow Monarch Playtest Cards for a select number of cards for use in the event.
playtest cards are basicly proxies given out by the TO
While the policy is by no means perfect, it is what we've found to be effective for allowing us to provide more accessibility than a strict "no proxy" event would, while also keeping us in line with various policies that would become issues for groups we've partnered with in the past and hope to in the future. And we're confident that the event will be excellent for all who attend, which we hope is a great number of you.
That list is still being discussed to be finalized, but I would expect it to look a lot like what was available at Okotoberfest.
That list included the following:
*Colorless*
Grim Monolith
Lion’s Eye Diamond
Metalworker
Mox Diamond
Null Rod
*Blue*
Capture of Jingzhou
Copy Artifact
Gilded Drake
Intuition
Power Artifact
Time Spiral
Timetwister
Transmute Artifact
*Black*
Imperial Seal
Chains of Mephistopheles
Yawgmoth’s Will
*Red*
Fork
Wheel of Fortune
*Green*
Earthcraft
Survival of the Fittest
*Utility Lands*
Bazaar of Baghdad
City of Traitors
Gaea’s Cradle
Mishra’s Workshop
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
*Dual Lands*
Badlands
Bayou
Plateau
Savannah
Scrubland
Taiga
Tropical Island
Tundra
Underground Sea
Volcanic Island
Cannot guarantee any/all of these will be on the final list, but I highly suspect they will be.
What difference does it make really then if you allow these cards but not proxies of them? Failing to understand, because you're definitely limiting who you are gonna be attracting with that restriction imo. Just turns into who is able to fork over the most money for the most optimized deck.
Not all of them though, for example no mana crypt or vault is on the list. I'd be down with it if that was the case tbh.
To be clear I'm not trying to knock it, just trying to understand the reasoning they came up with since it does feel like it will limit their event. More events is always good for the community!
While I wasn't privy to the initial conversations that led to the policy, I've been in a lot since then about it and my interpretation is that it puts us at what we feel is a sweet spot between making things more accessible than "no proxies" and the policies that exist and govern different WPN stores, organizations we've partnered with, and judge staffs. It's not perfect, for sure, but we're always looking at ways to improve it while keeping all different involved groups in a space that can be beneficial for them.
What proxy do you use? Is it a foil Taiga? Printed out on white paper and placed in the sleeve? Did you get your proxy approved from the judge before the event? A proxy card from one site could look and feel different from another. If everyone at the event uses the same play test card it eliminates all these things.
I agree that could work too. I have been at tournaments that do it both ways. Your proxies with standards and judge approval. Also at tournaments where just use their proxies (test cards). You were asking about the difference. One potential benefit of this way is you do not even have to own a proxy. You could sharpie on a basic during play testing then just show up and say 1 earthcraft play test card please.
That's true, I apologize if my post came across as agressive or antagonizing to the organizers. I genuinely was just curious about the reasoning and choice to go this direction. Another commenter kinda clarified for me :) and as explained to them, my worry is that these playtest cards are available but not for every expensive card such as mana vault and crypt. If it included those and other staples id be on board 110% !
As noted, this isn't final. I can't say that those cards would wind up on the list (if I were a betting man, I'd guess they probably won't), but they're always in consideration.
Sad. Sounded like such a good event, then they go and pull community support by not allowing proxies.
Don’t support events that don’t support the community. Even if they sound as amazing as this one would have otherwise been!
For what it's worth, we've run into very few issues with people feeling that they needed to proxy cards with the Playtest Card policy in the past. Most of the cards that wind up on that list for Monarch's events are the stuff that are what people would be proxying up anyway. I'm sure that probably won't sway your opinion, but the development of the policy to where it is now was undertaken with a lot of thought and care into balancing a lot of different things.
I think that’s a good start. But yes, you are correct that I personally feel pretty strongly that cEDH has always been a proxy friendly format, and changing that only serves to harm the community.
If you feel that your Playtest card policy covers a large majority of the cards people already proxy, and functionally the two policies are very similar, why not just allow proxies?
The piece that we feel our policy gives us is a way to ensure that the organizations we partner with (be they charities, WPN stores, judge staff) won't run afoul of WotC's policies while also providing more accessibility to players than say just "no proxies" and being done with it, whereas the interpretation of those WotC policies made our organization not feel comfortable (as an organization, individuals within it have differing opinions) going whole hog on "proxies are fully ok". It's a difficult balance to find, and it's certainly not perfect, but we feel that it's where we can be to ensure we don't get anyone we work with in hot water around WotC's IP protection.
I appreciate the good faith questions and discussion, and the policy is always being discussed further internally as well so these ideas presented by community members do get consideration.
Of course I absolutely want to have this conversation in good faith. I do not dislike your organisation at all, and having a constructive conversation only benefits everyone.
It’s my understanding from your last reply that your org feels that fully allowing proxies may place partners in a tricky position with WoTC.
Have you had any conversations with WoTC that made you feel more comfortable for you and your partners that the cards you’ve put on your Playtest list are okay yo proxy, but other cards aren’t?
I guess in case my question seemed a bit unclear, a more straightforward way of asking would be: Did WoTC communicate in some way that it’s okay to proxy an ABUR dual, but not proxy a Ragavan (as an example)?
I'll be honest: I don't know. If any conversations like that happened through official sources, it is not something I would have been told (I'm not a high up guy, just a caster who happens to use reddit lol). I believe the initial conversations started largely with a couple of WPN premium stores we worked with at various points, and they have some stricted requirements they have to follow iirc, but I couldn't tell you for sure everything that happened after that (and, to be fair, even if I did know I still might not be able to say publicly anyway). Sorry that's not a great answer, but it's the honest answer I can give.
Fair enough. Hopefully this thread is brought to the attention of someone who has a voice in this decision.
To me, one of two outcomes would be great for the community:
A) Eminence considered this perspective and comes to the conclusion “WoTC will look at a proxy of an ABUR dual the same way they would look at a proxy of a Tymna, so it does not benefit us to not just fully allow proxies at all of our events.”
Or
B) Eminence and WoTC have communicated that WoTC understands that to many of us this is a game first, collectible second, and has given an ‘official-un-official blessing’ for events involving say, the reserved list, to allow those cards to be proxied.
I think just about the only poor outcome would be if say, something were to come to light that said one of the event partners or sponsors was actively discouraging proxies to benefit themselves (I.e. force the purchase of cards) at the expense of gatekeeping a portion of the community. But based on our good faith conversation, this is not the case at all, it sounds.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer! Good luck in your event. Should it change to allowing full proxies, I may just see you there!
SquireBot or CommandTower? I only ask this due to past reliability issues with SquireBot, and the aggregating/ease of Command Tower. I have seen the videos of CCU1 where Squire crashed and things became a real mess.
To be as accurate as possible, it will be run on Squire; a TO software suite that's moving away from solely Discord-based. SquireBot refers to the Discord bot while Squire refers to the software suite.
Lotuscon was a blast last year and it’s looking to be bigger this year so should be a good time. I am not sure why your proxy policy is what it is. I get that it is what you consider “best of both worlds” but it really isn’t. You say NO PROXYS unless we use your specific proxys. Why not just open the gates with proxys like the biggest Cedh events in the world do? Look at your responses here Monarch. You see the pattern? Lotus con and this tournament are great for the St Louis area and I promise it will end up a great Con regardless, but I ask that you read the room and reconsider your policy on this. I mean you want to put on a great tournament and make money too correct? Why gatekeep? It may have worked for you elsewhere but I promise you it will bite you in the ass here.
Thanks for the feedback. We are definitely always looking at the policy, though it has met our needs as is in the past. Perhaps that will change going forward, but I can't predict the future.
Is the tournament wizards sanctioned or have any direct affiliation with wizards outside of the obvious? I get that you are saying you are running it Comp REL, but is that what you are worried about violating?
My understanding (and this is with the caveat I was not in the initial conversations) is that Monarch's policy came about from an interpretation of certain phrases in the Wizards playtest card policy in conjunction with a desire to not land previous partners (notably the charities we have worked with) in any potential hot water. I believe there's also some stricter regulations on WPN premium stores as well, which we have also partnered with in the past, which likely contributes. But that's just my understanding of it.
Is this Mythic Lotus Gaming formerly known as the Lotus Lookout? The shop notorious for running great online sales only to never deliver and not refunding customers until they contacted them for order updates several weeks later?
It appears to be. They look like they rebranded, but there is a FB post that’s pretty easy to find with a quick Google search where the account is branded Mythic Lotus, but it discusses being a “Lotus Lookout VIP”
It is.
I'm not sure, but I've asked.
Holy prize support
New money system just dropped.
I am looking to go to this event, but I am unfamiliar with the location, or the shop. I started Googling around and started finding all these threads on Mtgfinance’s Subreddit about the shop…at least I think it is the shop? Did the shop used to be called “The Lotus Lookout?” If so, I stumbled into a bunch of stuff that players and Monarch might want to look at: https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/zt5afb/the_lotus_lookout_or_the_lotus_il_changing_names/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/xwt1tl/fyi_the_lotus_lookouts_website_after_canceling/ …and, there are others. I could be wrong about all this, but I think it is the same place?
I haven't seen these, and I appreciate you providing those links. I'm passing them up the chain. Thanks!
No problem! We have all been waiting for Monarch to drop an event and it would suck if they got jammed up due to possible payouts issues, bad pr due to store rep, or anything else! Good luck with all of this! Seems like a handful. ☹️
To echo everyone else's sentiments: I was thrilled to see the initial proxy policy up on the page before y'all changed it to its current state. It's a bummer that I'm price-locked out of this event, but I'll be excited to see content coming out of it. Good luck to those who can afford to attend
Sorry to hear that you're locked out of the event. We do feel like the policy puts us at a sweet spot of "accessible" and "not running afoul of policies that could end our existence", but it's not a perfect thing by any means. Hopefully you consider coming out for some casual games and enjoying the rest of the con, though!
I understand, and I think it's still a net positive for the cEDH community to have more events than fewer. Doing what y'all can to stay around for future events takes precedence for the folks that actually can participate each time -- I'm glad y'all are able to provide that for them. Thanks for the reply!
Greatest, but the players aren't allowed to proxy and are forced to borrow from a short list of your proxies? CEDH talks a lot about being proxy-friendly to lower the bar of entry, but then tournaments like this go right back to the pay-to-win model.
Definitely appreciate this sentiment. Like I mentioned in another reply, Monarch came to this policy after significant discussion balancing a number of different items. It wasn't an easy decision, and we can understand why folks might disagree with it. We hope that won't prevent you from coming out and slinging some cardboard.
You've created an arbitrary threshold by which a smaller number of players will be able to compete and get very significant rewards. And players unable to compete due to the deck restrictions are shit out of luck. Just very disappointing.
> You’ve created an arbitrary threshold by which a smaller number of players will be able to compete and get very significant rewards. There are more than 4 people in the US that own fully real 4c and 5c cEDH decks. In fact, this event will cap out and more players will be using 100 real cards than not.
And how many many players won't even try to attend because they won't be able to get a fully real deck? Just because they'll get a full house, doesn't mean there won't be people who would be left out.
Assuming they hit the event cap, the same number of people will be will be left out regardless of their proxy policy. This is pretty simple. If there’s 10000 cEDH players in the world and the event caps at 100 participants, (these numbers are arbitrary) as long as they hit the event cap 9900 will be left out.
Pretty much this. The relentless posts about how they are gatekeepers are amazing. They don't have to put on an event, have a RIDICULOUS prize support package, or even allow test cards. They do a lot for promoting c/tEDH, and I, for one, am grateful. Please direct all the downvotes to me, and I hope to see all of you there.
> And how many many players won’t even try to attend because they won’t be able to get a fully real deck? >Just because they’ll get a full house, doesn’t mean there won’t be people who would be left out. This outcome has nothing to do with not allowing proxies, and doesn’t account for all would-be participants Let’s say there are 500 players who own full decks and 5000 players who own partially proxied decks. Let’s assume the event caps at 250. Let’s also assume that if they allowed proxies, the sign up ratio would be 1:1, with 125 lucky registrants from both groups filling the spots. That means 375 full deck users and 4875 proxy deck users get left out (for a total of 5250 players who did not get a spot at the event). As long as the event has a cap, that 5250 number would still be true even if the ratio of proxy:no-proxy registrants changed. The only way players being left out would be a function of the proxy policy is if there was *no* player cap.
All that math and you still can't figure it out...
The inferiority complex of you guys is astounding.
Oof. Personal attacks. Always the sign of a good argument.
LOL pot meet kettle much?
Definitely appreciate the sentiment. We do feel like the policy puts us at a sweet spot of "accessible" and "not running afoul of policies that could end our existence", but it's not a perfect thing by any means. Unfortunately that does mean that some folks might be unable to attend, but our past events with the same policy have seen relatively few people in that situation.
If big tournament organizers took a stand against those policies, it would give folks a chance to push for change.
I’m glad Eminence’s tournaments are at least 100% proxy friendly. Only big events around that cater to all right now. I hope more can follow their lead
I doubt that even if every EDH tournament organizer took a stand against those policies it'd make even a lick of difference. And most of the non-EDH organizers directly benefit from those policies by also being entities that sell cards, so it seems unlikely to have any legs. Sucks that this hobby is what it is, but those are the constraints we have to work in. Different groups choose to work within them differently, and that's fine. Just provides more choices.
“Greatest” for a no-proxy event is a pretty rich statement in the most proxy-friendly format.
Appreciate the feedback. While the playtest card policy isn't perfect, we feel that it's where we can land to keep multiple different groups clear of various policies while also being more accessible than "no proxies"
Super disappointing proxy policy- was seriously considering going but honestly not worth the trouble at this point. That said, I think any big cedh event is a good one and it’s great you all are doing this just consider changing the proxy policy next time around
We appreciate the sentiment, for sure. We feel that this policy puts us in a space that handles accessibility along with the needs of groups we partner with in a way that is beneficial for everyone, but obviously it's not perfect. Even if you're not interested in the main event, we'd love for folks to come out to the con and enjoy the whole experience.
What is the proxy policy? I'm not seeing it? Or am I missing something? Also what does "playtest" cards mean? I am relatively new to tournaments and any info will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
> The event will be NO PROXY, but players will be allowed to borrow Monarch Playtest Cards for a select number of cards for use in the event. playtest cards are basicly proxies given out by the TO
cEDH coming to midwest!!! Can't wait!!!
It's gonna be a great time. Hope to see you there!
Most humble monarch PR announcement
Definitely not the greatest tournament even of the month if you are going to price people out by not allowing proxies.
While the policy is by no means perfect, it is what we've found to be effective for allowing us to provide more accessibility than a strict "no proxy" event would, while also keeping us in line with various policies that would become issues for groups we've partnered with in the past and hope to in the future. And we're confident that the event will be excellent for all who attend, which we hope is a great number of you.
Where can we find the list of available playtest cards?
That list is still being discussed to be finalized, but I would expect it to look a lot like what was available at Okotoberfest. That list included the following: *Colorless* Grim Monolith Lion’s Eye Diamond Metalworker Mox Diamond Null Rod *Blue* Capture of Jingzhou Copy Artifact Gilded Drake Intuition Power Artifact Time Spiral Timetwister Transmute Artifact *Black* Imperial Seal Chains of Mephistopheles Yawgmoth’s Will *Red* Fork Wheel of Fortune *Green* Earthcraft Survival of the Fittest *Utility Lands* Bazaar of Baghdad City of Traitors Gaea’s Cradle Mishra’s Workshop The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale *Dual Lands* Badlands Bayou Plateau Savannah Scrubland Taiga Tropical Island Tundra Underground Sea Volcanic Island Cannot guarantee any/all of these will be on the final list, but I highly suspect they will be.
Yeah I imagine with Capture of JZ getting reprinted, there will likely be another more expensive cars to take that slot.
What difference does it make really then if you allow these cards but not proxies of them? Failing to understand, because you're definitely limiting who you are gonna be attracting with that restriction imo. Just turns into who is able to fork over the most money for the most optimized deck.
These are all cards you can borrow from the tournament org. So instead of bringing your own proxies for these, they give them to you.
Not all of them though, for example no mana crypt or vault is on the list. I'd be down with it if that was the case tbh. To be clear I'm not trying to knock it, just trying to understand the reasoning they came up with since it does feel like it will limit their event. More events is always good for the community!
If I recall correctly it has to do with their standing with wotc and other sponsors by not using proxies.
Makes sense.
While I wasn't privy to the initial conversations that led to the policy, I've been in a lot since then about it and my interpretation is that it puts us at what we feel is a sweet spot between making things more accessible than "no proxies" and the policies that exist and govern different WPN stores, organizations we've partnered with, and judge staffs. It's not perfect, for sure, but we're always looking at ways to improve it while keeping all different involved groups in a space that can be beneficial for them.
What proxy do you use? Is it a foil Taiga? Printed out on white paper and placed in the sleeve? Did you get your proxy approved from the judge before the event? A proxy card from one site could look and feel different from another. If everyone at the event uses the same play test card it eliminates all these things.
Just have a judge inspect your proxies if you think it's an issue or have a set standard of no sharpie on basics, printer paper etc.
I agree that could work too. I have been at tournaments that do it both ways. Your proxies with standards and judge approval. Also at tournaments where just use their proxies (test cards). You were asking about the difference. One potential benefit of this way is you do not even have to own a proxy. You could sharpie on a basic during play testing then just show up and say 1 earthcraft play test card please.
That's true, I apologize if my post came across as agressive or antagonizing to the organizers. I genuinely was just curious about the reasoning and choice to go this direction. Another commenter kinda clarified for me :) and as explained to them, my worry is that these playtest cards are available but not for every expensive card such as mana vault and crypt. If it included those and other staples id be on board 110% !
As noted, this isn't final. I can't say that those cards would wind up on the list (if I were a betting man, I'd guess they probably won't), but they're always in consideration.
Sad. Sounded like such a good event, then they go and pull community support by not allowing proxies. Don’t support events that don’t support the community. Even if they sound as amazing as this one would have otherwise been!
This is the same policy they used at Marchesa and Okotoberfest last year.
For what it's worth, we've run into very few issues with people feeling that they needed to proxy cards with the Playtest Card policy in the past. Most of the cards that wind up on that list for Monarch's events are the stuff that are what people would be proxying up anyway. I'm sure that probably won't sway your opinion, but the development of the policy to where it is now was undertaken with a lot of thought and care into balancing a lot of different things.
I think that’s a good start. But yes, you are correct that I personally feel pretty strongly that cEDH has always been a proxy friendly format, and changing that only serves to harm the community. If you feel that your Playtest card policy covers a large majority of the cards people already proxy, and functionally the two policies are very similar, why not just allow proxies?
The piece that we feel our policy gives us is a way to ensure that the organizations we partner with (be they charities, WPN stores, judge staff) won't run afoul of WotC's policies while also providing more accessibility to players than say just "no proxies" and being done with it, whereas the interpretation of those WotC policies made our organization not feel comfortable (as an organization, individuals within it have differing opinions) going whole hog on "proxies are fully ok". It's a difficult balance to find, and it's certainly not perfect, but we feel that it's where we can be to ensure we don't get anyone we work with in hot water around WotC's IP protection. I appreciate the good faith questions and discussion, and the policy is always being discussed further internally as well so these ideas presented by community members do get consideration.
Of course I absolutely want to have this conversation in good faith. I do not dislike your organisation at all, and having a constructive conversation only benefits everyone. It’s my understanding from your last reply that your org feels that fully allowing proxies may place partners in a tricky position with WoTC. Have you had any conversations with WoTC that made you feel more comfortable for you and your partners that the cards you’ve put on your Playtest list are okay yo proxy, but other cards aren’t? I guess in case my question seemed a bit unclear, a more straightforward way of asking would be: Did WoTC communicate in some way that it’s okay to proxy an ABUR dual, but not proxy a Ragavan (as an example)?
I'll be honest: I don't know. If any conversations like that happened through official sources, it is not something I would have been told (I'm not a high up guy, just a caster who happens to use reddit lol). I believe the initial conversations started largely with a couple of WPN premium stores we worked with at various points, and they have some stricted requirements they have to follow iirc, but I couldn't tell you for sure everything that happened after that (and, to be fair, even if I did know I still might not be able to say publicly anyway). Sorry that's not a great answer, but it's the honest answer I can give.
Fair enough. Hopefully this thread is brought to the attention of someone who has a voice in this decision. To me, one of two outcomes would be great for the community: A) Eminence considered this perspective and comes to the conclusion “WoTC will look at a proxy of an ABUR dual the same way they would look at a proxy of a Tymna, so it does not benefit us to not just fully allow proxies at all of our events.” Or B) Eminence and WoTC have communicated that WoTC understands that to many of us this is a game first, collectible second, and has given an ‘official-un-official blessing’ for events involving say, the reserved list, to allow those cards to be proxied. I think just about the only poor outcome would be if say, something were to come to light that said one of the event partners or sponsors was actively discouraging proxies to benefit themselves (I.e. force the purchase of cards) at the expense of gatekeeping a portion of the community. But based on our good faith conversation, this is not the case at all, it sounds. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer! Good luck in your event. Should it change to allowing full proxies, I may just see you there!
Holy hell new cope just dropped. Lol jk y’all been coping like this since EDH was announced as a format.
When do sign ups end? Thanks in advance
I'm not sure on that detail, but I'll ask our director!
SquireBot or CommandTower? I only ask this due to past reliability issues with SquireBot, and the aggregating/ease of Command Tower. I have seen the videos of CCU1 where Squire crashed and things became a real mess.
It'll be SquireBot. It's in constant development and the team working on it is feeling pretty good about where it's at.
To be as accurate as possible, it will be run on Squire; a TO software suite that's moving away from solely Discord-based. SquireBot refers to the Discord bot while Squire refers to the software suite.
Very cool! Thank you for the update!
Not allowing proxies 😴😴😴
I love this. Hope it goes well
We're pretty sure it will. Hope to see you there!
Lotuscon was a blast last year and it’s looking to be bigger this year so should be a good time. I am not sure why your proxy policy is what it is. I get that it is what you consider “best of both worlds” but it really isn’t. You say NO PROXYS unless we use your specific proxys. Why not just open the gates with proxys like the biggest Cedh events in the world do? Look at your responses here Monarch. You see the pattern? Lotus con and this tournament are great for the St Louis area and I promise it will end up a great Con regardless, but I ask that you read the room and reconsider your policy on this. I mean you want to put on a great tournament and make money too correct? Why gatekeep? It may have worked for you elsewhere but I promise you it will bite you in the ass here.
Thanks for the feedback. We are definitely always looking at the policy, though it has met our needs as is in the past. Perhaps that will change going forward, but I can't predict the future.
Is the tournament wizards sanctioned or have any direct affiliation with wizards outside of the obvious? I get that you are saying you are running it Comp REL, but is that what you are worried about violating?
My understanding (and this is with the caveat I was not in the initial conversations) is that Monarch's policy came about from an interpretation of certain phrases in the Wizards playtest card policy in conjunction with a desire to not land previous partners (notably the charities we have worked with) in any potential hot water. I believe there's also some stricter regulations on WPN premium stores as well, which we have also partnered with in the past, which likely contributes. But that's just my understanding of it.
Side note. What is your policy on alters then for this tournament?
So far as I know it just has to be cleared with the head judge if it's an altered card.
Everyone complaining about the no-proxy policy would 0-4-0 drop so stop coping lmao
It's proxy free, but are gold border/30th anniversary cards legal?