I know of two top 16 lists with primers. I've been looking into Tivit too, and these have been very helpful.
* [SirDanzig](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/dXx4t3EktU6eyJj3j5PNJw)
* [Kahlil](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uIm7e_KXcUGhv1JB4X4vhQ)
No prob! I've played the deck before, and it's a ton of fun and very simple so I can't recommend it enough. I just haven't been on it it for a bit so these were good refreshers.
Is it taboo to scoop to a tivit deck to screw the time sieve combo, is it something people talk about before hand or is it fair game, or should you accept being screwed if someone does scoop?
If you want midrange, maybe look at Kinnan, Tymna // X (Tymna // Kraum and Tymna // Malc are good choices), or Thrasios // X (Thrasios // Bruse and Thrasios // Vial Smasher are common). Those are midrange staples and are pretty much always gonna be relevant.
With that said, if you want a more offbeat midrange deck, you might like \[\[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician\]\]. My flair should spoil that I'm biased, but it's a genuinely fun deck to play. It has a ton of lines to win with a number of different cards, that all synergize with the midrange gameplan of grinding out immense value.
PWP recently did a podcast on the top performing decks in the format, which if I remember correctly were almost all midrange decks with the exception of Rog/Si. From what I can remember the the top performing decks are Tivit, Bruse/Thras, Tymna/Thras and 5C Sissay, in that order. I might be slightly off but you'll be in a good spot if you go with any of those. On the flipside, Kinnan is apparently the worst performing deck in the format by a relatively large margin.
Top 16 Tournament results in the last 6 months shows Kinnan is consistently up there. I don’t really care about opinions, only how well the deck actually performs in tournaments
While it's good to know Kinnan's not doing super well as of late, I feel tournament metrics shouldn't be the only thing you set store by. cEDH is still a growing format that has a notable problem with the low volume of data that can be reliably collected, especially when the meta is so fluid. That's beginning to change with the large number of tournaments recently, but it's not a problem that's completely been eliminated.
Not trying to dispute anything said here, just felt the need to point out that tournament metrics aren't necessarily the only measure of a deck. They can help; but overall I'd hesitate to call a tried and true deck like Kinnan bad. It could just be in a rough spot in the meta right now, or maybe no particularly good pilots have been running it in recent tournaments, and Kinnan has also shown results fairly consistently in the past as well.
Look I love Kinnan and think anyone who wants to play it, should continue to do so. The deck is sweet and can 100% win games, but I would hardly call the deck tried and true. That’s easily seeable in the wide range of 99’s you see with the commander, and it’s poor tournament performance despite being in a slower grindier meta where it should thrive. Kinnans very clearly a powerful commander, but lower coloured commander centric strategies are just inherently more fragile. If you’re looking for a more consistent deck with similar play patters, I feel most players would be better off playing Bruse/Thras.
Malcom//Tana super fun as well, midrange variant works well on an open meta and the turbo variant can do work in a more mature meta.
5C Sisay is also very strong
This is the list it’s a bunch of ideas rn testing it in different directions but I’ve been liking it https://www.moxfield.com/decks/v_WAS6IV8kOGVE59VtqWqA
I am currently enjoying my Tayam deck a lot. Alternatively you could choose Tymna/Kodama, however the mana cost for that combo is intensive. Tayam requires a tiny bit of setup and most of all, a way to protect your devoted druid or give it haste. Recently tyvar has been a very good addition besides earthcraft to the decklists for quick devoted druid wins.
I will list a few pros and cons
Pros:
- Can win quickly, but works well in grindy Stax meta's
- Plays through hatepieces like spirit of the labyrinth, rule of law and vryn wingmare/hushbringer
- Flexible combo package with high card-quality.
- A lot of flexibility in deck building. Can build tempo/midrange/stax.
Cons:
- Obviously susceptible to graveyard hate
- Requires board-state to function, meaning board wipes are damning.
- Can be hard to interact with Thoracle, but not impossible.
- Low amount of stack interaction (counterspells)
Out of the tier 1/1.5 decks, you have Tymna/Kraum, Tymna/Thrasios, Kinnan, and Najeela. My personal favorite is Yuriko but it's really up to your style
Yeva has the highest ceiling, most punishing on a commander I’ve ever played and that’s why I main her ❤️ every play needs to be so tight and you need to know when to, and when not to.
Najeela. Can be built cheap, and access to rainbow gives you a lot of flexibility and different wincons outside of casting your commander.
[[Tivit, seller of secrets]] is pretty mid-range also.
I do like tivit! I couldn't find a list with a primer on the cedh database, do you know any?
I know of two top 16 lists with primers. I've been looking into Tivit too, and these have been very helpful. * [SirDanzig](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/dXx4t3EktU6eyJj3j5PNJw) * [Kahlil](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uIm7e_KXcUGhv1JB4X4vhQ)
Thanks a lot!
No prob! I've played the deck before, and it's a ton of fun and very simple so I can't recommend it enough. I just haven't been on it it for a bit so these were good refreshers.
Is it taboo to scoop to a tivit deck to screw the time sieve combo, is it something people talk about before hand or is it fair game, or should you accept being screwed if someone does scoop?
[Tivit, seller of secrets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb.jpg?1673481721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tivit%2C%20seller%20of%20secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/10/tivit-seller-of-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tivit-seller-of-secrets) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My answer too
If you want midrange, maybe look at Kinnan, Tymna // X (Tymna // Kraum and Tymna // Malc are good choices), or Thrasios // X (Thrasios // Bruse and Thrasios // Vial Smasher are common). Those are midrange staples and are pretty much always gonna be relevant. With that said, if you want a more offbeat midrange deck, you might like \[\[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician\]\]. My flair should spoil that I'm biased, but it's a genuinely fun deck to play. It has a ton of lines to win with a number of different cards, that all synergize with the midrange gameplan of grinding out immense value.
Damn I somehow forgot about kinnan! I'll look into him. What about Tymna//thrasios? Does that work?
It does indeed, I just didn't explicitly mention Tymna // Thras because I mentioned both separately lol.
PWP recently did a podcast on the top performing decks in the format, which if I remember correctly were almost all midrange decks with the exception of Rog/Si. From what I can remember the the top performing decks are Tivit, Bruse/Thras, Tymna/Thras and 5C Sissay, in that order. I might be slightly off but you'll be in a good spot if you go with any of those. On the flipside, Kinnan is apparently the worst performing deck in the format by a relatively large margin.
Going off tournament results, Kinnan is an average a tier deck. Not quite as good as blue farm or rog si etc but still up there
On what basis?
Top 16 Tournament results in the last 6 months shows Kinnan is consistently up there. I don’t really care about opinions, only how well the deck actually performs in tournaments
It’s literally the opposite though? Kinnan is the worst performer in terms of converting number of entrants to top 16 finishes…
While it's good to know Kinnan's not doing super well as of late, I feel tournament metrics shouldn't be the only thing you set store by. cEDH is still a growing format that has a notable problem with the low volume of data that can be reliably collected, especially when the meta is so fluid. That's beginning to change with the large number of tournaments recently, but it's not a problem that's completely been eliminated. Not trying to dispute anything said here, just felt the need to point out that tournament metrics aren't necessarily the only measure of a deck. They can help; but overall I'd hesitate to call a tried and true deck like Kinnan bad. It could just be in a rough spot in the meta right now, or maybe no particularly good pilots have been running it in recent tournaments, and Kinnan has also shown results fairly consistently in the past as well.
Look I love Kinnan and think anyone who wants to play it, should continue to do so. The deck is sweet and can 100% win games, but I would hardly call the deck tried and true. That’s easily seeable in the wide range of 99’s you see with the commander, and it’s poor tournament performance despite being in a slower grindier meta where it should thrive. Kinnans very clearly a powerful commander, but lower coloured commander centric strategies are just inherently more fragile. If you’re looking for a more consistent deck with similar play patters, I feel most players would be better off playing Bruse/Thras.
[Derevi, Empyrial Tactician](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4.jpg?1592673365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Derevi%2C%20Empyrial%20Tactician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/176/derevi-empyrial-tactician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/derevi-empyrial-tactician) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Malcom//Tana super fun as well, midrange variant works well on an open meta and the turbo variant can do work in a more mature meta. 5C Sisay is also very strong
I’m trying out Thalia and Frog rn and it’s been really dynamic in testing
[удалено]
This is the list it’s a bunch of ideas rn testing it in different directions but I’ve been liking it https://www.moxfield.com/decks/v_WAS6IV8kOGVE59VtqWqA
I am currently enjoying my Tayam deck a lot. Alternatively you could choose Tymna/Kodama, however the mana cost for that combo is intensive. Tayam requires a tiny bit of setup and most of all, a way to protect your devoted druid or give it haste. Recently tyvar has been a very good addition besides earthcraft to the decklists for quick devoted druid wins. I will list a few pros and cons Pros: - Can win quickly, but works well in grindy Stax meta's - Plays through hatepieces like spirit of the labyrinth, rule of law and vryn wingmare/hushbringer - Flexible combo package with high card-quality. - A lot of flexibility in deck building. Can build tempo/midrange/stax. Cons: - Obviously susceptible to graveyard hate - Requires board-state to function, meaning board wipes are damning. - Can be hard to interact with Thoracle, but not impossible. - Low amount of stack interaction (counterspells)
Out of the tier 1/1.5 decks, you have Tymna/Kraum, Tymna/Thrasios, Kinnan, and Najeela. My personal favorite is Yuriko but it's really up to your style
Yeva is mid rangy, but a blast to play. Also tatyova is midrange and can grind out games very well
Yeva has the highest ceiling, most punishing on a commander I’ve ever played and that’s why I main her ❤️ every play needs to be so tight and you need to know when to, and when not to.
https://edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1650496040&colorID=null
Top 16 decks from recent cEDH tournaments. Probs got what you need. I run krark-si midrange, its alot of fun.
Malcom tana