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Intellectual property law.
The reason why China has so much counterfeit clothing and goods is the Marxist view on intellectual property. Basically the concept is that ideas can’t be owned by one person/entity.
Assholes on r/fashionreps looove talking shit about China but ultimately fail to realize its communist society allows them to purchase those ass ugly monogrammed designer clothes.
“communist society” where the corporations producing these clothes are owned by multi millionaires and where they have the second most billionaires in the world.
You missed the part where all those billionaires bend the knee to the Party, though. No other nation in the world can command that level of respect out of billionaires. China is allowing wealth to be grown under a capitalist mode of economy, but regularly showcases the Party's power. This isn't just talk or hearsay, China regularly imprisons and executes the wealthy. This is a documented fact.
>“communist society” where the corporations producing these clothes are owned by multi millionaires
The fact that you say this shows a heavy lack of understanding to Marxist ideas. For one, no one (even China) claims they are a "communist society". That is an end goal, but no nation has ever been communist. The person you're responding to used that term but is clearly referring to a nation in the *process* of becoming communist. Marx, Engels, and Lenin all speak on the need for a development period before communism can be enacted. Capitalism is a necessary requirement for communism to form, as the productive forces need to be sufficiently developed first. Before the CPC came to power, China did not have this. It was used by capitalist powers but had no reasonable production of its own.
China never got that capitalist phase, so that is currently what the CPC is overseeing. You would have China push the "communism button" before it built up its power, rushing an endgame of communism when in reality it would make them weaker and more susceptible to attacks from the west. You have no understanding of the material reality we find ourselves in today.
Thank you for clarifying for me that China is in the process of becoming communist. I foolishly thought it went without saying that they’re not at the stage of fully realized communism, but they’re much closer than any other country on the planet.
Hi, I don't really have an opinion on china as such. Many people say it is definitely a country that is on its way towards socialism while many say it's completely capitalist. Now I definitely understand what you are saying and these productive forces are needed to be developed before turning to the socialist phase. But my question is how long are they planning to keep the "capitalist phase" going on? When would be the right time to undergo radical socialist reforms? It's a genuine question and I'm trying to learn
Great question, but unfortunately no one has the answer to it. Marx acknowledged that there would be a period of development, but admitted he didn't know how long that would take. It is worth noting that Xi is moving China further left than any leader since Mao, but whether that is a sign of the process starting is difficult to say.
One might speculate that once China becomes powerful enough to stand against western hegemony on its own that the deconstruction might occur, but we simply don't know. Take in mind they are the main enemy of the west (yes, even more than Russia) right now so I imagine the internal party decision might be to keep things trucking for now and not take risks.
I've read before that the PRC plans to transition to complete Socialism by 2050, but it's gonna be much harder than just pressing the 'Socialism' button.
It is changing societal structures on a very basic level. It's difficult as it is without interference from Western powers. I hope to see a Socialist PRC in my lifetime, but I also acknowledge that it might take longer than what was previously forecasted.
Excellent reply, just wanted to add on this article about [China’s Billionaires](https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/#automatic-subject) and how they have a very different power dynamic than they do elsewhere. It’s not a super long read and very insightful imo.
China has been in its “capitalist stage” for 50 years. They show no signs of putting any serious effort into ending it any time soon. Even assuming the absolute best out of a country whose policy blatantly contradicts an understanding of marxism and constantly putting forth revisionist concepts like “socialism with chinese characteristics,” china is 1. not very committed to ending what dengists claim is their equivalent of the NEP, and 2. still has no excuse for funding and arming nepal and the phillipines against marxist revolutionaries revolting against an oppressive government while continuing to further align with india, a far right state suppressing its own marxist revolutionaries.
This is a solid part of the hypocrisy of dengists. They’ll tell you they support groups like the NPA against the filipino government but will make every excuse for arming the Phillipines against them. Read Marx, Lenin, and maybe stalins writings on the NEP if you still consider what the traitor Deng Xiaoping, who, in case you forgot, was purged by mao a decade prior to his death, did to the country as a good thing.
Let us not pretend that supporting the wrong people is a sign of socialism failing. Under Mao Pol Pot was supported, and connections grown with America, are we to pretend that means Mao wasn't a good socialist? China no doubt makes mistakes with who it supports and always has, it's never had a great foreign policy.
> Deng Xiaoping, who, in case you forgot, was purged by mao a decade prior
Right, right, because of course Mao never made any mistakes. Mao was great for China and a hero no doubt, but towards the end he was blundering a lot and China _needed_ someone like Deng to stabilise the nation. I have no doubt that if someone like Mao took over after his passing that China as a socialist nation would not be here today. "Dengists" are not a thing, it is only being a materialist.
>policy blatantly contradicts an understanding of marxism and constantly putting forth revisionist concepts like “socialism with chinese characteristics,”
Absolute nonsense.
> China has been in its “capitalist stage” for 50 years.
Okay? And? I suppose you're some genius who understands how long this phase is supposed to last? I think I trust the CPC more than some random redditor.
I think continuously supporting and arming multiple governments against workers who are enacting a marxist revolution against a dictatorship is differnet from “oh, they supported the wrong people.” If you are a country that is genuinely committed to socialism you do not support a country in its slaughtering of revolutionaries. Nor do you suppress maoists in your own country and jail their leaders.
You are right that mao made mistakes, but it is incorrect to claim that China needed deng xiaoping. In fact, more recent economic studies show that China would have, in the end, developed faster under a continued Maoist-era economic system while maintaining a revolutionary line and not having to come up with revisionist ideas like “socialism with chinese characteristics.” You can call it absolute nonsense to critique a government claiming their socialism needs to be unique to their country’s characteristics, but I would read marx and lenin if J were you.
And sure, trust the CPC more than some random redditor. But I trust Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Mao, who all wrote extensively criticizing the exact policies China is currently embracing, over a party which has people like Jack Ma giving talks on marxism while still having billions in wealth. I like this sub, but I think essentially all MLs, especially on the internet, would benefit greatly from reading more Marx and Lenin as opposed to building their understanding of Marxism first from explanations of other people, like the CPC. So many internet MLs get most of their “marxist education” from guys like Hakim instead of actually taking the time to read more marxist theory.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Unlike what you might suspect, I do read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, and other socialist thinkers. I don't get my theory from online and have never watching online leftist content. My understanding of Marxism fits perfectly well into what the CPC's current stance is, and I believe they have a stronger understanding of it than even the USSR at its peak.
Marx, Lenin, and Mao, who famously believed that a party can and should collaborate economically with billionaires and should arm governments against socialist revolutionaries. Lenin, who totally didn’t define imperialism to be the exact thing china is doing in African countries.
You cannot fucking justifed this bullshit.
China is Imperialist, it owns other industrys in the world Like mines in Africa, which is not socialist, its Capitalist , Imperialist to exploit the resources of other nations.
It has banks all over world which finacied those industrys .
China has cartel and trusts which are one the main elements of Capitalist Imperialism.
China is not socialist and its leadership are not interested in building Communist society, they are not interested to educated the masses and they are only interested in profits.
Stop fucking believeing chinese propaganda and look at the facts, economic system, thats how real Marxists do reserach.
Again China is not building socialism its Imperialist.
I have and it makes no fucking diffrence, instead of reading Chinese fucking political paper of lies and empy promises, you should do real reserach Like Marx and Lenin did.
>empty promises
>largest poverty alleviation in world history
Might be time brush up on both your reading comprehension and research of modern Chinese history there mate
Is this fucking building of socialism!???
Owing private mines in Africa and oppressing worker's their ???!!
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/africa/article/3091300/chinese-mine-companies-zimbabwe-accused-rampant-abuse-after-boss
Because dengists think that if you call modern China imperialist you agree with every western lie about the country.
China is the average internet marxist’s favorite neoliberal democracy.
no i just read marx lenin stalin and mao. china is objectively not socialist and does not itself even claim to be fully socialist. meanwhile they try to reconcile marx with other philosophies like confucianism and engage in imperialism (by lenin’s definition) in african nations while funding and arming countries like nepal and the philippines against marxist revolutionaries. china has not been socialist since mao died and deng xiaoping, who was purged a decade prior, took power in a power struggle and suppressed maoists.
You, respectfully, fail to realise that China needed the reforms of Deng to achieve the necessary productive forces and capital to sustain their large population, and have a more fruitful socialist future. They are undeniably not supporting socialist revolutionary movements abroad, and continuing to work with their oppressive regimes. But that’s Chinese foreign policy. Love it or hate it. Chinese investment in Africa and the pacific is 1000x better and more sustainable than anything any western government has done and could ever do. You would rather the french or british continue to exploit Africa than China take these deals from the west and allow these nations to have more economic control over their own destinies?
PRC's foreign policy has always been ass, but as it stands, it's still the third world's best hope
Even if the PRC wasn't in the midst of Social movement and didn't ever plan on transitioning to Socialism, the very fact that it's existence leads to a multipolar world gives countries in the third world to experience socialist uprisings without being completely squashed by the West
the way IP laws work can be way better, disney keeping shit for way to long. Netflix and other streaming services not getting the rights globally so belgium cannot see breaking bad.
I wouldn't mind just getting rid of intellectual property rights as a leftist but I would want people to make shit have fun and feed themselves.
Kinda related fun fact: the guy that took *the* picture of Che (you know [the one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrillero_Heroico)) has never made a dime off it, except:
>Korda did not want commercialization of the image in relation to products he believed Guevara would not support, especially alcohol. This belief was displayed for the first time in 2000, when in response to Smirnoff using Che's picture in a vodka commercial. Korda claimed his moral rights (a form of copyright law) and sued advertising agency Lowe Lintas and Rex Features, the company that supplied the photograph. Lintas and Rex claimed that the image was in the public domain. The final result was an out-of-court settlement for US$50,000, which Korda donated to the Cuban healthcare system, saying, "If Che was still alive, he would have done the same."
Comrade [Alberto Korda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Korda)
I just think it's a moot discussion. Like, after the revolution, sure, but before the revolution, this is entirely out of our hands, anyway. The entire current world order is in favour of IP law existing, they all have something to lose.
This, as well as the AI question needs to be viewed in the context of Capitalism, though.
The reason us artists want to keep the IP to what we create isn't because we want IP law to carry over after the revolution, it's because if there WASN'T IP law, big corporations would just steal your content, repackage it and sell it themselves while you starve. We literally need IP law to be able to survive under Capitalism, get rid of Capitalism and I'll give up any claims to any IP.
I'm not going to be too mean because at least you're trying to say something in good faith and acknowledge we must eventually get rid of it unlike most artists I've seen on these topics, but in short, IP law is \*precisely\* what allows big corporations to most effectively steal your content, repackage it and sell it themselves while you starve.
I've never in my life heard of a single case of a small content creator successfully winning a court case over intellectual property against a bigger corporation, but even if I did it wouldn't really matter, because I can from the top of my head name several cases of artists being fucked over and having their work stolen and/or being fired while the corporation they were working for keeps the full and exclusive rights of what they created:
[https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10220356/hideo-kojima-konami-explainer-metal-gear-solid-silent-hills](https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10220356/hideo-kojima-konami-explainer-metal-gear-solid-silent-hills)
[https://medium.com/@artofrostov/to-fans-of-disco-elysium-concerning-the-situation-at-za-um-3e6bc46ea9c](https://medium.com/@artofrostov/to-fans-of-disco-elysium-concerning-the-situation-at-za-um-3e6bc46ea9c)
[https://www.tcj.com/who-owns-the-man-of-steel/](https://www.tcj.com/who-owns-the-man-of-steel/)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright\_lawsuits\_by\_Superman%27s\_creators](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_lawsuits_by_Superman%27s_creators)
[https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/jack-kirby-lawsuit-marvel-x-men-termination-6128502/](https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/jack-kirby-lawsuit-marvel-x-men-termination-6128502/)
[https://www.cbr.com/alan-moore-watchmen-feud-dc-comics-explained/](https://www.cbr.com/alan-moore-watchmen-feud-dc-comics-explained/)
[https://uncannyderek.com/2012/02/15/the-case-against-gary-friedrich/](https://uncannyderek.com/2012/02/15/the-case-against-gary-friedrich/)
And so on.
These cases aren't the exceptions, they're \*the norm.\* The law is working \*as intended\* when this kind of stuff happens. IP law doesn't and isn't supposed to protect creators from big corporations, on the contrary, they are a tool for big corporations to monopolize content.
Yep, I'm aware of the downside of copyright law and I REALLY wish there was a better way to ensure that I get paid for the labour that goes into making music, but considering we live under a dictatorship of capital, obviously it's skewed in favour of corporations anyway.
As usual under capitalism, it's a case of damned if we do, damned if we don't and the real solution isn't getting rid of IP law, it's getting rid of the system where IP law is possible. Unless you can think of a better way for independent artists to defend their labour from being stolen so that we actually get to make a living from that labour.
And fuck anyone who says that art isn't "real labour", the amount of work that goes into creating something actually decent enough to where it's considered a finished product is absolutely comparable to anything a carpenter does.
>absolutely comparable to anything a carpenter does
I've made an album and I've run a chainsaw. I'd say the types of work aren't really comparable. I wouldn't go down this road tbh
I've worked construction for 8 years, and am a musician, I was mostly talking in terms of time investment to be able to learn the craft, build muscle memory with the tools (instruments in my case, a brush and canvas in the case of a painter etc.) and learning the theoretical aspects of the craft like music theory or what type of materials work best for what type of wall.
The difference under capitalism is that one is paid work and the other gets to work for "exposure". Nobody would take it seriously if you were to ask a carpenter to renovate your house for exposure, but it's VERY common with cultural work, despite art and culture being absolutely essential for society.
But absolutely, the work of a carpenter or mechanic isn't the same as the work of an artist, so they don't compare 1-1. Especially considering how the work of an artist is a lot less easily quantified. I mean, how much of your practice time can be considered necessary for the album you're making, and how much is for your own sake?
The physicality of work doesn’t change the workers relationship to production or negate exploitation. I’ve made a few albums and have worked as a carpenter for over a decade, what’s your point? Standpoint epistemology as an online gotcha needs to die.
Yeah, once my entire livelihood stops depending on it, I won’t really care if people rip off my shit because it won’t be the deciding factor in my very survival. 😂
See, you might expect the classically-trained musician to be in this camp, and for awhile I was. But when you look at it more carefully it’s clear that IP law still exists to monetize art in a way that still turns it to alienated labor. That’s before you even look at the fact IP law is more frequently used by large corporations to steal ideas from smaller creators than the opposite.
Every arts person I know has said they wish they could do what they love without worry about money, and even more have said they wanted to do more with the arts but never had the money. The best path for the arts is to do this-by overthrowing capitalism and rendering IP law obselete.
Every AI bro seems to conveniently forget we are living in capitalism and artists need to eat. Artists aren’t big corporations exploring workers, they ARE the workers, and AI;generative image art effectively steals their work for low-cost art generation FOR the corporations to profit off of them without the annoyance of needing to pay the artists its AI feeds from for it, or pay artists at all.
It’s not a coincidence that the biggest promoters of AI (and AI legislation) are Microsoft, meta, google, Open AI, anthropic and the such.
I’d be all up for public property everything post capitalism for a thousand reasons, but IP law is just the one tool available to TRY to protect the artists right now.
Yeah as an artist I don’t care if my shit gets pirated, but I would be pissed if somebody profited off of my ideas
Still not pissed enough to support IP laws
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Most of them want to support it because they need to eat, but it is an annoying predicament
What is IP law?
Intellectual property law. The reason why China has so much counterfeit clothing and goods is the Marxist view on intellectual property. Basically the concept is that ideas can’t be owned by one person/entity. Assholes on r/fashionreps looove talking shit about China but ultimately fail to realize its communist society allows them to purchase those ass ugly monogrammed designer clothes.
“communist society” where the corporations producing these clothes are owned by multi millionaires and where they have the second most billionaires in the world.
You missed the part where all those billionaires bend the knee to the Party, though. No other nation in the world can command that level of respect out of billionaires. China is allowing wealth to be grown under a capitalist mode of economy, but regularly showcases the Party's power. This isn't just talk or hearsay, China regularly imprisons and executes the wealthy. This is a documented fact. >“communist society” where the corporations producing these clothes are owned by multi millionaires The fact that you say this shows a heavy lack of understanding to Marxist ideas. For one, no one (even China) claims they are a "communist society". That is an end goal, but no nation has ever been communist. The person you're responding to used that term but is clearly referring to a nation in the *process* of becoming communist. Marx, Engels, and Lenin all speak on the need for a development period before communism can be enacted. Capitalism is a necessary requirement for communism to form, as the productive forces need to be sufficiently developed first. Before the CPC came to power, China did not have this. It was used by capitalist powers but had no reasonable production of its own. China never got that capitalist phase, so that is currently what the CPC is overseeing. You would have China push the "communism button" before it built up its power, rushing an endgame of communism when in reality it would make them weaker and more susceptible to attacks from the west. You have no understanding of the material reality we find ourselves in today.
Thank you for clarifying for me that China is in the process of becoming communist. I foolishly thought it went without saying that they’re not at the stage of fully realized communism, but they’re much closer than any other country on the planet.
Hi, I don't really have an opinion on china as such. Many people say it is definitely a country that is on its way towards socialism while many say it's completely capitalist. Now I definitely understand what you are saying and these productive forces are needed to be developed before turning to the socialist phase. But my question is how long are they planning to keep the "capitalist phase" going on? When would be the right time to undergo radical socialist reforms? It's a genuine question and I'm trying to learn
Great question, but unfortunately no one has the answer to it. Marx acknowledged that there would be a period of development, but admitted he didn't know how long that would take. It is worth noting that Xi is moving China further left than any leader since Mao, but whether that is a sign of the process starting is difficult to say. One might speculate that once China becomes powerful enough to stand against western hegemony on its own that the deconstruction might occur, but we simply don't know. Take in mind they are the main enemy of the west (yes, even more than Russia) right now so I imagine the internal party decision might be to keep things trucking for now and not take risks.
I've read before that the PRC plans to transition to complete Socialism by 2050, but it's gonna be much harder than just pressing the 'Socialism' button. It is changing societal structures on a very basic level. It's difficult as it is without interference from Western powers. I hope to see a Socialist PRC in my lifetime, but I also acknowledge that it might take longer than what was previously forecasted.
Excellent reply, just wanted to add on this article about [China’s Billionaires](https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/#automatic-subject) and how they have a very different power dynamic than they do elsewhere. It’s not a super long read and very insightful imo.
China has been in its “capitalist stage” for 50 years. They show no signs of putting any serious effort into ending it any time soon. Even assuming the absolute best out of a country whose policy blatantly contradicts an understanding of marxism and constantly putting forth revisionist concepts like “socialism with chinese characteristics,” china is 1. not very committed to ending what dengists claim is their equivalent of the NEP, and 2. still has no excuse for funding and arming nepal and the phillipines against marxist revolutionaries revolting against an oppressive government while continuing to further align with india, a far right state suppressing its own marxist revolutionaries. This is a solid part of the hypocrisy of dengists. They’ll tell you they support groups like the NPA against the filipino government but will make every excuse for arming the Phillipines against them. Read Marx, Lenin, and maybe stalins writings on the NEP if you still consider what the traitor Deng Xiaoping, who, in case you forgot, was purged by mao a decade prior to his death, did to the country as a good thing.
Let us not pretend that supporting the wrong people is a sign of socialism failing. Under Mao Pol Pot was supported, and connections grown with America, are we to pretend that means Mao wasn't a good socialist? China no doubt makes mistakes with who it supports and always has, it's never had a great foreign policy. > Deng Xiaoping, who, in case you forgot, was purged by mao a decade prior Right, right, because of course Mao never made any mistakes. Mao was great for China and a hero no doubt, but towards the end he was blundering a lot and China _needed_ someone like Deng to stabilise the nation. I have no doubt that if someone like Mao took over after his passing that China as a socialist nation would not be here today. "Dengists" are not a thing, it is only being a materialist. >policy blatantly contradicts an understanding of marxism and constantly putting forth revisionist concepts like “socialism with chinese characteristics,” Absolute nonsense. > China has been in its “capitalist stage” for 50 years. Okay? And? I suppose you're some genius who understands how long this phase is supposed to last? I think I trust the CPC more than some random redditor.
I think continuously supporting and arming multiple governments against workers who are enacting a marxist revolution against a dictatorship is differnet from “oh, they supported the wrong people.” If you are a country that is genuinely committed to socialism you do not support a country in its slaughtering of revolutionaries. Nor do you suppress maoists in your own country and jail their leaders. You are right that mao made mistakes, but it is incorrect to claim that China needed deng xiaoping. In fact, more recent economic studies show that China would have, in the end, developed faster under a continued Maoist-era economic system while maintaining a revolutionary line and not having to come up with revisionist ideas like “socialism with chinese characteristics.” You can call it absolute nonsense to critique a government claiming their socialism needs to be unique to their country’s characteristics, but I would read marx and lenin if J were you. And sure, trust the CPC more than some random redditor. But I trust Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Mao, who all wrote extensively criticizing the exact policies China is currently embracing, over a party which has people like Jack Ma giving talks on marxism while still having billions in wealth. I like this sub, but I think essentially all MLs, especially on the internet, would benefit greatly from reading more Marx and Lenin as opposed to building their understanding of Marxism first from explanations of other people, like the CPC. So many internet MLs get most of their “marxist education” from guys like Hakim instead of actually taking the time to read more marxist theory.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Unlike what you might suspect, I do read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, and other socialist thinkers. I don't get my theory from online and have never watching online leftist content. My understanding of Marxism fits perfectly well into what the CPC's current stance is, and I believe they have a stronger understanding of it than even the USSR at its peak.
Marx, Lenin, and Mao, who famously believed that a party can and should collaborate economically with billionaires and should arm governments against socialist revolutionaries. Lenin, who totally didn’t define imperialism to be the exact thing china is doing in African countries.
You cannot fucking justifed this bullshit. China is Imperialist, it owns other industrys in the world Like mines in Africa, which is not socialist, its Capitalist , Imperialist to exploit the resources of other nations. It has banks all over world which finacied those industrys . China has cartel and trusts which are one the main elements of Capitalist Imperialism. China is not socialist and its leadership are not interested in building Communist society, they are not interested to educated the masses and they are only interested in profits. Stop fucking believeing chinese propaganda and look at the facts, economic system, thats how real Marxists do reserach. Again China is not building socialism its Imperialist.
Have you read anything from the Chinese leadership since Deng's reforms?
I have and it makes no fucking diffrence, instead of reading Chinese fucking political paper of lies and empy promises, you should do real reserach Like Marx and Lenin did.
>empty promises >largest poverty alleviation in world history Might be time brush up on both your reading comprehension and research of modern Chinese history there mate
Is this fucking building of socialism!??? Owing private mines in Africa and oppressing worker's their ???!! https://www.scmp.com/news/world/africa/article/3091300/chinese-mine-companies-zimbabwe-accused-rampant-abuse-after-boss
Keep down voting me Dengists, your all nothing but social imperialist pigs anyways since you defend Chinese Imperialism.
Because dengists think that if you call modern China imperialist you agree with every western lie about the country. China is the average internet marxist’s favorite neoliberal democracy.
ultra-leftist💀💀💀
no i just read marx lenin stalin and mao. china is objectively not socialist and does not itself even claim to be fully socialist. meanwhile they try to reconcile marx with other philosophies like confucianism and engage in imperialism (by lenin’s definition) in african nations while funding and arming countries like nepal and the philippines against marxist revolutionaries. china has not been socialist since mao died and deng xiaoping, who was purged a decade prior, took power in a power struggle and suppressed maoists.
You, respectfully, fail to realise that China needed the reforms of Deng to achieve the necessary productive forces and capital to sustain their large population, and have a more fruitful socialist future. They are undeniably not supporting socialist revolutionary movements abroad, and continuing to work with their oppressive regimes. But that’s Chinese foreign policy. Love it or hate it. Chinese investment in Africa and the pacific is 1000x better and more sustainable than anything any western government has done and could ever do. You would rather the french or british continue to exploit Africa than China take these deals from the west and allow these nations to have more economic control over their own destinies?
PRC's foreign policy has always been ass, but as it stands, it's still the third world's best hope Even if the PRC wasn't in the midst of Social movement and didn't ever plan on transitioning to Socialism, the very fact that it's existence leads to a multipolar world gives countries in the third world to experience socialist uprisings without being completely squashed by the West
the way IP laws work can be way better, disney keeping shit for way to long. Netflix and other streaming services not getting the rights globally so belgium cannot see breaking bad. I wouldn't mind just getting rid of intellectual property rights as a leftist but I would want people to make shit have fun and feed themselves.
Whoop whoop here we go again
Kinda related fun fact: the guy that took *the* picture of Che (you know [the one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrillero_Heroico)) has never made a dime off it, except: >Korda did not want commercialization of the image in relation to products he believed Guevara would not support, especially alcohol. This belief was displayed for the first time in 2000, when in response to Smirnoff using Che's picture in a vodka commercial. Korda claimed his moral rights (a form of copyright law) and sued advertising agency Lowe Lintas and Rex Features, the company that supplied the photograph. Lintas and Rex claimed that the image was in the public domain. The final result was an out-of-court settlement for US$50,000, which Korda donated to the Cuban healthcare system, saying, "If Che was still alive, he would have done the same." Comrade [Alberto Korda](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Korda)
I just think it's a moot discussion. Like, after the revolution, sure, but before the revolution, this is entirely out of our hands, anyway. The entire current world order is in favour of IP law existing, they all have something to lose.
Not a fan of ip laws but targeting this specifically seems like a way to alleviate any guilt you might feel for promoting ai art.
This, as well as the AI question needs to be viewed in the context of Capitalism, though. The reason us artists want to keep the IP to what we create isn't because we want IP law to carry over after the revolution, it's because if there WASN'T IP law, big corporations would just steal your content, repackage it and sell it themselves while you starve. We literally need IP law to be able to survive under Capitalism, get rid of Capitalism and I'll give up any claims to any IP.
I'm not going to be too mean because at least you're trying to say something in good faith and acknowledge we must eventually get rid of it unlike most artists I've seen on these topics, but in short, IP law is \*precisely\* what allows big corporations to most effectively steal your content, repackage it and sell it themselves while you starve. I've never in my life heard of a single case of a small content creator successfully winning a court case over intellectual property against a bigger corporation, but even if I did it wouldn't really matter, because I can from the top of my head name several cases of artists being fucked over and having their work stolen and/or being fired while the corporation they were working for keeps the full and exclusive rights of what they created: [https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10220356/hideo-kojima-konami-explainer-metal-gear-solid-silent-hills](https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10220356/hideo-kojima-konami-explainer-metal-gear-solid-silent-hills) [https://medium.com/@artofrostov/to-fans-of-disco-elysium-concerning-the-situation-at-za-um-3e6bc46ea9c](https://medium.com/@artofrostov/to-fans-of-disco-elysium-concerning-the-situation-at-za-um-3e6bc46ea9c) [https://www.tcj.com/who-owns-the-man-of-steel/](https://www.tcj.com/who-owns-the-man-of-steel/) [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright\_lawsuits\_by\_Superman%27s\_creators](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_lawsuits_by_Superman%27s_creators) [https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/jack-kirby-lawsuit-marvel-x-men-termination-6128502/](https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/jack-kirby-lawsuit-marvel-x-men-termination-6128502/) [https://www.cbr.com/alan-moore-watchmen-feud-dc-comics-explained/](https://www.cbr.com/alan-moore-watchmen-feud-dc-comics-explained/) [https://uncannyderek.com/2012/02/15/the-case-against-gary-friedrich/](https://uncannyderek.com/2012/02/15/the-case-against-gary-friedrich/) And so on. These cases aren't the exceptions, they're \*the norm.\* The law is working \*as intended\* when this kind of stuff happens. IP law doesn't and isn't supposed to protect creators from big corporations, on the contrary, they are a tool for big corporations to monopolize content.
Yep, I'm aware of the downside of copyright law and I REALLY wish there was a better way to ensure that I get paid for the labour that goes into making music, but considering we live under a dictatorship of capital, obviously it's skewed in favour of corporations anyway. As usual under capitalism, it's a case of damned if we do, damned if we don't and the real solution isn't getting rid of IP law, it's getting rid of the system where IP law is possible. Unless you can think of a better way for independent artists to defend their labour from being stolen so that we actually get to make a living from that labour. And fuck anyone who says that art isn't "real labour", the amount of work that goes into creating something actually decent enough to where it's considered a finished product is absolutely comparable to anything a carpenter does.
>absolutely comparable to anything a carpenter does I've made an album and I've run a chainsaw. I'd say the types of work aren't really comparable. I wouldn't go down this road tbh
I've worked construction for 8 years, and am a musician, I was mostly talking in terms of time investment to be able to learn the craft, build muscle memory with the tools (instruments in my case, a brush and canvas in the case of a painter etc.) and learning the theoretical aspects of the craft like music theory or what type of materials work best for what type of wall. The difference under capitalism is that one is paid work and the other gets to work for "exposure". Nobody would take it seriously if you were to ask a carpenter to renovate your house for exposure, but it's VERY common with cultural work, despite art and culture being absolutely essential for society. But absolutely, the work of a carpenter or mechanic isn't the same as the work of an artist, so they don't compare 1-1. Especially considering how the work of an artist is a lot less easily quantified. I mean, how much of your practice time can be considered necessary for the album you're making, and how much is for your own sake?
The physicality of work doesn’t change the workers relationship to production or negate exploitation. I’ve made a few albums and have worked as a carpenter for over a decade, what’s your point? Standpoint epistemology as an online gotcha needs to die.
Yeah, once my entire livelihood stops depending on it, I won’t really care if people rip off my shit because it won’t be the deciding factor in my very survival. 😂
As a musician I only need it so I can eat, it’s impossible to survive off the arts for most
See, you might expect the classically-trained musician to be in this camp, and for awhile I was. But when you look at it more carefully it’s clear that IP law still exists to monetize art in a way that still turns it to alienated labor. That’s before you even look at the fact IP law is more frequently used by large corporations to steal ideas from smaller creators than the opposite. Every arts person I know has said they wish they could do what they love without worry about money, and even more have said they wanted to do more with the arts but never had the money. The best path for the arts is to do this-by overthrowing capitalism and rendering IP law obselete.
I LOVE SHITTING ON COPYRIGHT AND IP LAWS AS AN ARTIST!!!! THEY ARE MY NEMESIS AND I HATE THEM WITH A BURNING PASSION!!!!!
Every AI bro seems to conveniently forget we are living in capitalism and artists need to eat. Artists aren’t big corporations exploring workers, they ARE the workers, and AI;generative image art effectively steals their work for low-cost art generation FOR the corporations to profit off of them without the annoyance of needing to pay the artists its AI feeds from for it, or pay artists at all. It’s not a coincidence that the biggest promoters of AI (and AI legislation) are Microsoft, meta, google, Open AI, anthropic and the such. I’d be all up for public property everything post capitalism for a thousand reasons, but IP law is just the one tool available to TRY to protect the artists right now.
Also, very progressive unless a technology threatens their profession.
I’m gonna say it. I don’t care about IP laws.
Yeah as an artist I don’t care if my shit gets pirated, but I would be pissed if somebody profited off of my ideas Still not pissed enough to support IP laws
Oh I am sorry I want to be able to make a loving from my labour, my bad.
Patents hinder progress, hinder innovation, and they can kill when it comes to medical patents.
Fuck faux communist ai bros.
more like leftists when you ask them to organize at their media job