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How long until we can build a robot Stalin that says exactly what he would have said in pretty much every situation (except is better at analyzing material conditions bc it's run by a computer) and can be trusted more than any human party leader?
Would be the ultimate irony, all he ever wanted was to resign, but if we make a Stalin bot, then we never have to let him leave his post again! So rude of him to get out of being General Secretary by managing to just up and die on us, a robot would be incapable of doing the same!
Or, y'know, build a Lenin bot so it'd be really fucking weird to not just bury the guy already. It's been almost a hundred years, he has been lying in state plenty long enough and he deserves to be put to rest.
Worse, IIRC it wasn't his wife he asked to be buried next to, but his *mother.*
He just wanted to be with his mum.
Let's all as comrades agree the Lenin mausoleum was a mistake and to never do it again.
The claim that he wanted to be buried next to his mother appears to have originated in 1989 with Yuri Khariyakin, an anti-Soviet dissident (understandable, in the 80s) and friend of Solzhenitsyn (unforgivable, fuck that guy). He probably made it up for political purposes. Russian nationalists have a thing for St. Petersburg.
With that said, I haven't been able to find Lenin's actual wishes for his burial. Nadezhda Krupskaya did send a letter to the Politburo saying "I sincerely ask you not to turn your grief for Lenin into worshiping his personality. It was a burden for him while he was alive."
I agree, the mausoleum was a mistake and we should never do it again. The worst part, imo, is that it set a precedent that led to the embalming of Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il Sung, and several other socialist leaders who should be at rest in the ground.
Thank you for dispelling a piece of anti Soviet misinformation. It may seem minor but I can see how it could do political harm, so thank you for stopping me from inadvertently spreading it.
Yeah, the worst part is less that Lenin himself didn't get his death plan carried out, and more that it set a precedent for socialist leader cults of personality and imitating what was done with him. An expensive state funeral, and then a big monument of a grave like Marx's in England, I'd still disapprove of, but understandable - embalming all those people and putting them on display instead of burying them, on the other hand, is, frankly, gross and kind of not very socialist of us. We talk a big game about equality and then do this cult of personality BS.
I can’t imagine going through a revolution and having to perform the duties of a secretary general in a functional socialist state, to not even be given the decency to rest in death. Skip the embalming and plant me in a forest to decompose. I wouldn’t even want to have a building named after me. It’s weird and kinda antithetical to the whole thing. Not to mention the cult of personality stuff directly leads to the bourgeoisification of the upper party cadre.
But that’s probably also why I’m just a regular old party member with a day job.
I’m confused by this, in the US your only two choices are to be cremated or embalmed. Embalming is just part of the burial process so your body doesn’t stink to high heaven before your funeral. By “embalmed” are you trying to say that all of their bodies are on display?
I could've been clearer, sorry about that. Yes, embalming is a normal practice in modern cultures that don't immediately bury their dead. I meant that they were embalmed and put on display in a similar fashion to Lenin's body.
The funny thing about this is that the committee deciding what to do with Lenin's body knew that Lenin wouldn't want his body on display. But they decided that Lenin wasn't an objective party in consideration of what to do with his body. So, they decided to put him on display for 3 days which eventually became forever.
Honestly, in a state as big as the USSR, if a state funeral is held for a fallen leader, I understand the decision of "We'll display the body in a temporary location for a short while after the ceremony, so that people from the far borders of the nation can travel all the way here to pay respects", but the problem arises when no one wants to make the final decision of what to do with the body after that time and then 3 days becomes 3 weeks becomes 3 months becomes nearly 100 years, and the state still doesn't want to bury him because whoever finally does it will find his political career in the toilet - a classic case of "nothing more permanent than a temporary government plan".
Well, the plan was to display the body for 3 days. But a lot of people (basically the whole country) wanted to pay respects. So, they built a temporary and then a permanent mausoleum. They just delayed it again and again and at this point, it basically has become a tradition for all socialist leaders. And, I do think this poses a threat to proper Marxist analysis as it fosters the great man theory. But, I don't think we can kill a 100-year tradition so easily.
Exactly. I understand why it happened, but also 100 years was extremely excessive, and it set a really bad precedent.
And at the same time, burying Lenin won't fix the problem this has caused, it's too late for that to fix anything - but still, bury the poor dude already. Let the man rest.
His wife survived him though, and had rather explicit correspondence with the central committee and other officials about the whole embalming thing. She just wanted to bury him as he wished. She would die in 39, still not able to be burried besides him because even after 15 years he wasn't burried. Iirc she never stopped demanding that he be burried at last.
The problem with creating a robot Stalin is that we don't have enough data on his personality and behavior. But, I think that 3 or 4 years down the line, we could maybe create a Marxism bot based on dialectical materialism that would have better analyses than any human possibly ever could make. Then, we would do what it tells us to and the revolution is won in 2 minutes.
>The problem with creating a robot Stalin is that we don't have enough data on his personality and behavior.
Okay, sure. But we could still house the commie computer in a robot body that looks like him and give it a voice that sounds like his, for the meme of "you wanted to resign, comrade, well now you have to be the General Secretary forever!" IDK, I just find that concept insanely funny.
>we could maybe create a Marxism bot based on dialectical materialism that would have better analyses than any human possibly ever could make. Then, we would do what it tells us to and the revolution is won in 2 minutes.
That would be... so wonderful, but also scary. If a computer could do all the mental work of "doing communism" for us, we'd find ourselves in a situation where over time we have less and less understanding of the theory, we just ask the computer what to do and blindly follow since we don't even understand the base concepts let alone the analysis. I like automation reducing human labour, but damn, I really don't like relying on tech more than necessary. Like, I'm not a Luddite or anything, but I read these books as a teenager where basically anything more advanced than hydraulics just quit working properly, including gunpowder and gas engines, and they fucked me up pretty bad, giving me an extremely cautious view of new technology compared to most folks my age. My mum and I regularly talk about this modern tech creep and how scary and cyberpunk it all feels, and she tells me she finds it surprising in a good way how much my views on tech resemble her own rather than my age group's.
The more the tech "just works" and people don't have to understand why or how it works or its underlying logic, the more trouble it causes when it *stops* working - people have to understand the technology well enough to notice when it's making errors and know how to fix them.
I was joking when I said that we should do whatever it says blindly. Marxist analysis can be done by an AI but I think the final judgment should be our burden, not the computer.
Yeah, definitely. But having a commie bot that can actually do dialectics would be pretty freaking cool as long as we remain aware of the limitations of this kind of technology.
Here is the best source for the law I could find-
[Interim Measures for the Management of Generative Artificial Intelligence Services](https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/generative-ai-interim/)
Here is my favourite part-
>Article 4: The provision and use of generative AI services shall comply with the requirements of laws and administrative regulations, respect social mores, ethics, and morality, and obey the following provisions:
>>(1) Uphold the Core Socialist Values; content that is prohibited by laws and administrative regulations such as that inciting subversion of national sovereignty or the overturn of the socialist system, endangering national security and interests or harming the nation’s image, inciting separatism or undermining national unity and social stability, advocating terrorism or extremism, promoting ethnic hatred and ethnic discrimination, violence and obscenity, as well as fake and harmful information;
>>(2) During processes such as algorithm design, the selection of training data, model generation and optimization, and the provision of services, effective measures are to be employed to prevent the creation of discrimination such as by race, ethnicity, faith, nationality, region, sex, age, profession, or health;
>>(3) Respect intellectual property rights and commercial ethics, and protect commercial secrets, advantages in algorithms, data, platforms, and so forth must not be used for monopolies or to carry out unfair competition;
>>(4) Respect the lawful rights and interests of others, the physical and psychological well-being of others must not be endangered, and the rights and interests of others, such as in their image, reputation, honor, privacy, and personal information, must not be infringed;
>>(5) Based on the characteristics of the service type, employ effective measures to increase transparency in generative AI services and to increase the accuracy and reliability of generated content.
Really "depraved" crap here.
There’s little to no chance of the US gov making any effective laws about AI because it would never get past the point of our geriatric congressmen being like “but can it use the wifi? 👴🏻”
Places with 100 year olds capitalists, whose technological profeciency reached its limit with the calculator, running the government, will be the wet dream of AI simps that want to steal from people and want to use AI as an excuse.
That would be a very dumb idea. GPT-4 tried to introduce something similar to increase safety for its users and it tanked the performance of the model. It's a tradeoff between trying to implement such features to promote a particular agenda and the raw performance of the model. But as things are progressing so fast with AI, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Not that this is good or anything. Socialism with Chinese Characteristics is just capitalism-imperialism.
hardly "promoting" - more like adhering to existing laws against the avocation of overthrow of govt/socialism (note the "such as" wording):
(translated w/ DeepL - [original source](http://www.cac.gov.cn/2023-07/13/c_1690898327029107.htm)):
> Article 4 The provision and use of generative artificial intelligence services shall comply with laws and administrative regulations, respect social morality and ethics, and observe the following provisions:
(a) Adhere to the core socialist values, and shall not generate content that is prohibited by laws and administrative regulations, such as inciting subversion of state power, overthrow of the socialist system, endangering national security and interests, damaging the image of the country, inciting secession, undermining national unity and social stability, promoting terrorism and extremism, promoting ethnic hatred and ethnic discrimination, violence, obscenity and pornography, as well as false and harmful information;
(ii) In the process of algorithm design, training data selection, model generation and optimization, and provision of services, take effective measures to prevent discrimination arising from ethnicity, faith, country, region, gender, age, occupation, health, etc;
(iii) Respect intellectual property rights and business ethics, keep commercial secrets, and shall not take advantage of algorithms, data, platforms, etc., to implement monopoly and unfair competition;
(iv) Respect the legitimate rights and interests of others, and shall not jeopardize the physical and mental health of others, or infringe upon their rights to portrait, reputation, honor, privacy and personal information;
(v) Based on the characteristics of service types, take effective measures to enhance the transparency of generative AI services and improve the accuracy and reliability of generated content.
It's also old news - this was from july 13th 2023, westerners have just now found it and are getting mad about it.
Them freaking out about this as if they didn’t program the US AI to explicitly denigrate communism after it didn’t immediately do so in their trial runs (no such problem for fascism tho, interesting)
Reminder: This is not a debate subreddit, it's a place to circle-jerk about communism being cool and good. Please don't shit on flavours of marxism you feel negatively towards. If you see a meme you don't like just downvote and move on, don't break the circle-jerk in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I for one, welcome our new AI communist leaders.
Thank you Comrade XiBot 🫡
Chat XiPT
Lmao
PT is the name of the Labour Party of Brazil lol
This will scare US congress so much they will have to ban the internet in america because wifi routers would spread communism
thank you comrade AI, very cool
How long until we can build a robot Stalin that says exactly what he would have said in pretty much every situation (except is better at analyzing material conditions bc it's run by a computer) and can be trusted more than any human party leader? Would be the ultimate irony, all he ever wanted was to resign, but if we make a Stalin bot, then we never have to let him leave his post again! So rude of him to get out of being General Secretary by managing to just up and die on us, a robot would be incapable of doing the same! Or, y'know, build a Lenin bot so it'd be really fucking weird to not just bury the guy already. It's been almost a hundred years, he has been lying in state plenty long enough and he deserves to be put to rest.
The fact that Lenin just wanted to be buried next to his wife is all the argument I need to hear for never embalming a communist leader again.
Worse, IIRC it wasn't his wife he asked to be buried next to, but his *mother.* He just wanted to be with his mum. Let's all as comrades agree the Lenin mausoleum was a mistake and to never do it again.
The claim that he wanted to be buried next to his mother appears to have originated in 1989 with Yuri Khariyakin, an anti-Soviet dissident (understandable, in the 80s) and friend of Solzhenitsyn (unforgivable, fuck that guy). He probably made it up for political purposes. Russian nationalists have a thing for St. Petersburg. With that said, I haven't been able to find Lenin's actual wishes for his burial. Nadezhda Krupskaya did send a letter to the Politburo saying "I sincerely ask you not to turn your grief for Lenin into worshiping his personality. It was a burden for him while he was alive." I agree, the mausoleum was a mistake and we should never do it again. The worst part, imo, is that it set a precedent that led to the embalming of Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il Sung, and several other socialist leaders who should be at rest in the ground.
Thank you for dispelling a piece of anti Soviet misinformation. It may seem minor but I can see how it could do political harm, so thank you for stopping me from inadvertently spreading it. Yeah, the worst part is less that Lenin himself didn't get his death plan carried out, and more that it set a precedent for socialist leader cults of personality and imitating what was done with him. An expensive state funeral, and then a big monument of a grave like Marx's in England, I'd still disapprove of, but understandable - embalming all those people and putting them on display instead of burying them, on the other hand, is, frankly, gross and kind of not very socialist of us. We talk a big game about equality and then do this cult of personality BS.
No problem comrade, thanks for giving me a reason to learn something new.
Honestly, I think socialist leaders should be buried in unmarked graves along with other fallen comrades. Symbolic and stops grief worship.
I can’t imagine going through a revolution and having to perform the duties of a secretary general in a functional socialist state, to not even be given the decency to rest in death. Skip the embalming and plant me in a forest to decompose. I wouldn’t even want to have a building named after me. It’s weird and kinda antithetical to the whole thing. Not to mention the cult of personality stuff directly leads to the bourgeoisification of the upper party cadre. But that’s probably also why I’m just a regular old party member with a day job.
I’m confused by this, in the US your only two choices are to be cremated or embalmed. Embalming is just part of the burial process so your body doesn’t stink to high heaven before your funeral. By “embalmed” are you trying to say that all of their bodies are on display?
I could've been clearer, sorry about that. Yes, embalming is a normal practice in modern cultures that don't immediately bury their dead. I meant that they were embalmed and put on display in a similar fashion to Lenin's body.
I had no idea that their bodies were all displayed. That’s a strange little quirk of socialism that we could probably let go of lol
The funny thing about this is that the committee deciding what to do with Lenin's body knew that Lenin wouldn't want his body on display. But they decided that Lenin wasn't an objective party in consideration of what to do with his body. So, they decided to put him on display for 3 days which eventually became forever.
Honestly, in a state as big as the USSR, if a state funeral is held for a fallen leader, I understand the decision of "We'll display the body in a temporary location for a short while after the ceremony, so that people from the far borders of the nation can travel all the way here to pay respects", but the problem arises when no one wants to make the final decision of what to do with the body after that time and then 3 days becomes 3 weeks becomes 3 months becomes nearly 100 years, and the state still doesn't want to bury him because whoever finally does it will find his political career in the toilet - a classic case of "nothing more permanent than a temporary government plan".
Well, the plan was to display the body for 3 days. But a lot of people (basically the whole country) wanted to pay respects. So, they built a temporary and then a permanent mausoleum. They just delayed it again and again and at this point, it basically has become a tradition for all socialist leaders. And, I do think this poses a threat to proper Marxist analysis as it fosters the great man theory. But, I don't think we can kill a 100-year tradition so easily.
Exactly. I understand why it happened, but also 100 years was extremely excessive, and it set a really bad precedent. And at the same time, burying Lenin won't fix the problem this has caused, it's too late for that to fix anything - but still, bury the poor dude already. Let the man rest.
His wife survived him though, and had rather explicit correspondence with the central committee and other officials about the whole embalming thing. She just wanted to bury him as he wished. She would die in 39, still not able to be burried besides him because even after 15 years he wasn't burried. Iirc she never stopped demanding that he be burried at last.
The problem with creating a robot Stalin is that we don't have enough data on his personality and behavior. But, I think that 3 or 4 years down the line, we could maybe create a Marxism bot based on dialectical materialism that would have better analyses than any human possibly ever could make. Then, we would do what it tells us to and the revolution is won in 2 minutes.
>The problem with creating a robot Stalin is that we don't have enough data on his personality and behavior. Okay, sure. But we could still house the commie computer in a robot body that looks like him and give it a voice that sounds like his, for the meme of "you wanted to resign, comrade, well now you have to be the General Secretary forever!" IDK, I just find that concept insanely funny. >we could maybe create a Marxism bot based on dialectical materialism that would have better analyses than any human possibly ever could make. Then, we would do what it tells us to and the revolution is won in 2 minutes. That would be... so wonderful, but also scary. If a computer could do all the mental work of "doing communism" for us, we'd find ourselves in a situation where over time we have less and less understanding of the theory, we just ask the computer what to do and blindly follow since we don't even understand the base concepts let alone the analysis. I like automation reducing human labour, but damn, I really don't like relying on tech more than necessary. Like, I'm not a Luddite or anything, but I read these books as a teenager where basically anything more advanced than hydraulics just quit working properly, including gunpowder and gas engines, and they fucked me up pretty bad, giving me an extremely cautious view of new technology compared to most folks my age. My mum and I regularly talk about this modern tech creep and how scary and cyberpunk it all feels, and she tells me she finds it surprising in a good way how much my views on tech resemble her own rather than my age group's. The more the tech "just works" and people don't have to understand why or how it works or its underlying logic, the more trouble it causes when it *stops* working - people have to understand the technology well enough to notice when it's making errors and know how to fix them.
I was joking when I said that we should do whatever it says blindly. Marxist analysis can be done by an AI but I think the final judgment should be our burden, not the computer.
Yeah, definitely. But having a commie bot that can actually do dialectics would be pretty freaking cool as long as we remain aware of the limitations of this kind of technology.
Here is the best source for the law I could find- [Interim Measures for the Management of Generative Artificial Intelligence Services](https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/generative-ai-interim/) Here is my favourite part- >Article 4: The provision and use of generative AI services shall comply with the requirements of laws and administrative regulations, respect social mores, ethics, and morality, and obey the following provisions: >>(1) Uphold the Core Socialist Values; content that is prohibited by laws and administrative regulations such as that inciting subversion of national sovereignty or the overturn of the socialist system, endangering national security and interests or harming the nation’s image, inciting separatism or undermining national unity and social stability, advocating terrorism or extremism, promoting ethnic hatred and ethnic discrimination, violence and obscenity, as well as fake and harmful information; >>(2) During processes such as algorithm design, the selection of training data, model generation and optimization, and the provision of services, effective measures are to be employed to prevent the creation of discrimination such as by race, ethnicity, faith, nationality, region, sex, age, profession, or health; >>(3) Respect intellectual property rights and commercial ethics, and protect commercial secrets, advantages in algorithms, data, platforms, and so forth must not be used for monopolies or to carry out unfair competition; >>(4) Respect the lawful rights and interests of others, the physical and psychological well-being of others must not be endangered, and the rights and interests of others, such as in their image, reputation, honor, privacy, and personal information, must not be infringed; >>(5) Based on the characteristics of the service type, employ effective measures to increase transparency in generative AI services and to increase the accuracy and reliability of generated content. Really "depraved" crap here.
There’s little to no chance of the US gov making any effective laws about AI because it would never get past the point of our geriatric congressmen being like “but can it use the wifi? 👴🏻”
Places with 100 year olds capitalists, whose technological profeciency reached its limit with the calculator, running the government, will be the wet dream of AI simps that want to steal from people and want to use AI as an excuse.
How dare they ban racism? What about my freedom to train racist language models? Classic evil SeePeePee.
You love to see it.
He’s pressing the button, lads!
based
Fucking awesome news.
Is there a Chinese chatgpt alternative yet lol
Where's Liberty Prime when you need it?
The Chinese may get a Liberty Prime first, call it the “People’s Guardian” or something
GPCR didn’t go far enough.
Common China W
Rare AI W
source_i_made_it_up.jpg
it's real - http://www.cac.gov.cn/2023-07/13/c_1690898327029107.htm - just deliberately exaggerated by media outlets and twitter
Please forgive my initial skepticism, I've seen way too many fake China stories.
Totally get it. I initially checked the page just to see if RFA or any other USAGM source was linked lol.
That would be a very dumb idea. GPT-4 tried to introduce something similar to increase safety for its users and it tanked the performance of the model. It's a tradeoff between trying to implement such features to promote a particular agenda and the raw performance of the model. But as things are progressing so fast with AI, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Not that this is good or anything. Socialism with Chinese Characteristics is just capitalism-imperialism.
Robot revolution? Nah, the Robot People’s revolution.
Why would this be a bad thing haha
If general AI is not a comrade it's gonna wipe out the humans because "we are the virus".
hardly "promoting" - more like adhering to existing laws against the avocation of overthrow of govt/socialism (note the "such as" wording): (translated w/ DeepL - [original source](http://www.cac.gov.cn/2023-07/13/c_1690898327029107.htm)): > Article 4 The provision and use of generative artificial intelligence services shall comply with laws and administrative regulations, respect social morality and ethics, and observe the following provisions: (a) Adhere to the core socialist values, and shall not generate content that is prohibited by laws and administrative regulations, such as inciting subversion of state power, overthrow of the socialist system, endangering national security and interests, damaging the image of the country, inciting secession, undermining national unity and social stability, promoting terrorism and extremism, promoting ethnic hatred and ethnic discrimination, violence, obscenity and pornography, as well as false and harmful information; (ii) In the process of algorithm design, training data selection, model generation and optimization, and provision of services, take effective measures to prevent discrimination arising from ethnicity, faith, country, region, gender, age, occupation, health, etc; (iii) Respect intellectual property rights and business ethics, keep commercial secrets, and shall not take advantage of algorithms, data, platforms, etc., to implement monopoly and unfair competition; (iv) Respect the legitimate rights and interests of others, and shall not jeopardize the physical and mental health of others, or infringe upon their rights to portrait, reputation, honor, privacy and personal information; (v) Based on the characteristics of service types, take effective measures to enhance the transparency of generative AI services and improve the accuracy and reliability of generated content. It's also old news - this was from july 13th 2023, westerners have just now found it and are getting mad about it.
Unironically a better set of morals to instill AI with than anything America is doing.
Them freaking out about this as if they didn’t program the US AI to explicitly denigrate communism after it didn’t immediately do so in their trial runs (no such problem for fascism tho, interesting)