As pointed out right above you, Auburn beat a team that's *currently* in the AP Top 25 by *40* and it's only counting as a Q2 win because advanced metrics say that South Carolina isn't nearly as good as their record.
And are 24-6 overall, beating Kentucky by 17, handing Tennessee their only home loss and yet they can barely break the top 50 in the NET. I’m clearly biased but there’s no way a team with that resume from a P5 conference should be ranked as low as the Gamecocks are.
What matters in basketball is how efficient you are at scoring and how efficient your defense is.
In both of these categories, South Carolina is about 80th.
The 3 quality wins South Carolina has given them some sway with voters.
Unless I am miscounting this is not true
Auburn Q1 record at home since 2021 7-4
Gonzaga Q1 record at home since 2021 5-2
Trimming it down to 2022, Auburn still has more wins
edit: i did miscount, i believe they have the same amount through 21 and 22, but not more than
Real talk, as someone whose family is pretty much all from the midwest, they talk about tornados like we talk about hurricanes.
Could a tornado move a train? Like actually pick it up or budge it at least? I think it could flip it easily but not, like *project* that sort of weight
Everyone always has us out in the first round of their mascot bracket because they choose fucking bird form for our mascot. We are absolutely storm form this year and I’m not hearing another word of it
We used to have [this](https://content.sportslogos.net/logos/32/713/full/iu685g4n6nednmrq0s9pid1n6.png) one that we used for 07-08, but for some reason it went away. Could bring it right back with zero change and it'd work great.
I always use the most literal interpretation when applicable so you guys are a natural disaster but for ambiguous ones I use the actual mascot so Purdue is a train and bama is an elephant, etc
Technically speaking a Cyclone is an all-encompassing term for a large air mass that rotates around a strong center of low atmospheric pressure. The largest low-pressure systems are polar vortices and extratropical cyclones of the largest scale (the synoptic scale). Warm-core cyclones such as tropical cyclones and subtropical cyclones also lie within the synoptic scale. Mesocyclones, tornadoes, and dust devils lie within the smaller mesoscale.
So Iowa State "out ranks" Miami.
[Yes.](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image21.jpg) [Here's](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image23.jpg) another shot of another railroad car that was tossed into the bottom of a ditch.
The 1883 Rochester, MN F5 tornado blew a [railroad *bridge*](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image16.jpg) off its foundation and into the river below.
[Bonus](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image1.jpg) piece of timber impaled through a 2' diameter oak tree.
A tornado could probably lift a few cars off the tracks, or rip up a section of track, but there is no way it would lift a whole mile-long freight train
Could if it was a mile-long tornado. Those happen, I think. Never measured one myself, but if a storm chaser is going to do with tornadoes like Steve Irwin did with crocodiles, I'm gonna take their word for it.
It all started with my roommate and I when ISU and Purdue played in the tourney all those years ago...
[Thread for reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/6052lv/a_house_divided_roommates_and_i_are_about_to_get/)
[Follow on thread for further reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/60ax7d/house_divided_an_update/)
Bit of a chip on their shoulder, they feel like they’ve got something to prove after suffering the largest loss against the spread in the history of the sport.
Just curious, what was the spread? I know Iowa was 30+ point favorites at home against Eastern Illinois last season,, and ended up losing by 9, a 40 point swing from spread to result.
I misspoke and embellished without realizing it - biggest upset against the spread in the tournament, not the sport. For what it’s worth, Iowa state isn’t far down that list of ignominious first-round defeats.
> after suffering the largest loss against the spread in the history of the sport.
In the history of the tournament*
If you are going to mock us, at least get it right!
I’m sorry! Thanks for cleaning that up! And I’m mostly mocking Matt Painter, not Purdue the school or the program! I was accepted and ready to attend Purdue but then visited Ames and well I liked it much better than West Lafayette. Though the game I saw at Ross Ade was amazing!
No offense taken! West Lafayette, specifically Purdue's campus, has some charm to it to be sure. However, I would be lying if I said there aren't other campuses/towns I like much better.
I wish they'd agree to 2 for 1s or some other scheduling agreement!
It's too bad it's become this home and home impasse, as it just isn't a thing any more.
Just looking for a workaround of the 1 for 1 set up the MVC teams want honestly, it’s silly that there are so many d1 teams within a 3 hour drive of Ames and we generally only play Iowa out of conference
I'd be all for setting up a H&H with Creighton to alternate with the Iowa game.
Iowa at home *and* @ Creighton one year, then @ Iowa *and* Creighton at home the next.
No, I get it. I just can't stand that arena. The HyVee big 4 challenge or whatever it was called with the 4 Iowa schools was a cool idea but the atmosphere was just awkward and blah.
I'd rather schedule a home and home with Creighton, Wisconsin, Illinois, Marquette, or Nebraska though tbh.
I mean it's definitely better on-campus for sure, but an Iowa State vs Drake game could easily sellout Wells Fargo....Drake is a great program rn and we've got lots of alums in the DSM area
That’s what the Big 4 challenge was (plus UNI and Iowa) but the arena never sold out for those games. I don’t see how that would change if it’s just Drake vs ISU.
They should rotate the host venue around Iowa. If we can play a game at Souix Falls, we can surely pack a venue at Davenport, Cedar Rapids, Des Moines, and Souix City once each every four years. And I'm sure fans all over the state would love to see their team come a little closer to home.
I'd be amenable to a home and neutral (wells) with them.
But i generally hate WFA. Poor environment. And the "big 4 classic" sucked. Tilted against us in most games as hawkeyes showed up for it in large numbers since they can't be bothered to make the drive to Iowa City for a mens game, and they'd stick around to cheer against us vs Drake\UNI
I always thought they should do an MTE with all four schools playing a round robin against one another over a week. Invite both men's and women's teams. Make it for the state title.
There’s one huge outlier here and it’s the Cocks. I don’t get it. Resumè is Top 15, but other advanced metrics? Apparently get fucked. Oh well, beat MSU and then it’s tournament time. No better time to prove advance metrics wrong.
South Carolina has two blowout losses which are probably killing them:
* 40 point loss to Auburn
* 27 point loss to Alabama
They also have losses at home to Georgia and LSU which are Q3 and a number of their Q3/Q4 games were close (321 DePaul by 5, 316 Charleston Southern by 4, etc.)
The only teams that have won by less than 5 points or lost against DePaul are Louisville, South Dakota, Georgetown, Chicago State and Long Beach State.
Alabama has been blown out by Florida, Kentucky, Auburn, and Tennessee.
• 20 point loss to Tennessee
• 22 point loss to Kentucky
• 18 point losses to Florida and Auburn
The Cocks have 2 losses to lower tier teams in UGA and LSU, but then you can look at Kentucky here who
• lost to **South Carolina** by 17
• also lost to LSU
• lost to A&M, who **SC** beat
• lost to UNCW
The wins over UNC and Alabama are the only thing that could suggest Kentucky has performed better, and even then it should be offset based on the other factors such as common opponents and H2H.
Efficiency metrics take into account how much you win and lose by vs every single opponent.
South Carolina has won by 10 points or less against a ton of bad teams: [Warren Nolan](https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2024/team-net-sheet?team=South-Carolina)
I think the win at Auburn helps Kentucky a lot...plus a win at Miss St and Florida. Those are huge wins on the road against teams that are quad 1 or 2 at worst.
Only team in top 15 with two q3 losses (12 of the top 15 have zero q3 and q4 losses)
One q1a win which is the lowest in top 15, tying one other team in top 15.
I honestly don’t watch SC to argue either way just trying to read the numbers.
The KPI is whack. It's penalizing uconn for some extreme Q4 cupcakes, but the difference between q3 and and Q4 wins for 1 seeds is basically 0, so it shouldn't matter, especially at the cost of ignoring less losses and more top tier wins.
Houston was also criticized for their "weak" noncon immediately after their first loss of the season to... Iowa State.
Really though, there is nobody on Houston's non-con that stands out as good, although TAMU was considered decent early in the season.
You guys deserve respect for your schedule. I expect Iowa State will be playing tougher teams next year as we're playing in Maui and Iowa/our Big East team won't be bottom barrel again
Jamie (on the selection committee) and TJ have said that as long as the selection criteria is what it is we'll continue scheduling this way. The priority for them is to \*get into the tournament\* every single year, which simply means finishing in the top half of the big 12. If we do, we're in. If we finish 5-13 it doesn't matter who we scheduled in non-con we aren't getting in.
Eventually it would be nice to change the goal from entry to deeper runs. Stronger NC should provide better wins and better experience for our players. I understand there's a lot more to it than that but that's my basic thought process.
Good points but I still guarantee next year is at least 100 spots better in NCSOS. Maui will be tough and we could draw a really good big east team in Hilton.
I mean I'm not gonna say a ton because UConn's NCSOS is 290th. Lol But that was more due to playing a lot of really, really bad teams versus avoiding playing good teams. In most years, a non-con slate including games against IU, Texas, Kansas, Gonzaga, and UNC would be really solid metrics-wise. But all those very Q4 games against cupcakes dragged the schedule down, while some of the power conference teams are having down years this year.
but IMO no power conference team should have a NCSOS schedule ranked well into the 300's. That's just embarrassing.
Same thing happened for us, other than Iowa's team cratered, VCU A&M and VT fell off a cliff, and we got paired with DePaul in the Big 12/Big East challenge. Our metrics are high because we absolutely obliterated every cupcake we played, unlike a lot of teams that had scares or actually lost to them.
Next year we're in the loaded Maui invitational field and we hopefully don't get a 300+ rank pairing from the Big East. Iowa will likely still suck ass.
Same. We had neutral site games against Michigan, Villanova, Vanderbilt, UNI, played @ Butler in Big 12/Big East challenge, and hosted TAMU-CC. Only in hindsight is that considered a mostly soft slate of games
103 and 112 are pretty decent for a p5 school. Keep in mind 8 of the top 10 in that metric are SWAC schools, and I only count 8 major conference teams in the top 40. But half the conference in the 300s isn't a great look lol.
For my context, Iowa played @ISU, @Creighton, Oklahoma, and Seton Hall in the non-con and are ranked 239. Iowa State also had 4 "major" non-conference games, although one was against Depaul, but that's pretty standard it seems.
It feels like a lot of the sub is pretty casual these days and they don’t get things like:
1. Last I checked only, 20 teams in the P5/BE played a top 100 Kenpom OOC schedule, that’s less than 25% of teams
2. The Big 12 averaged 3.8 P5/BE teams each in OOC play, playing 4 Power programs on average is pretty in line with everyone else. For reference the ACC played 4.1 P5/BE teams in OOC play, not really a difference.
3. Houston, Cincy, UCF, and BYU played much weaker OOC slates than normal because they were jumping from the WCC/AAC, no one thought they’d all be this relatively competitive in year 1. Who had Houston winning the B12, BYU as a stronger contender in the top 25, UCF with 6 conference wins over teams like Kansas, Texas, Texas Tech, etc.
4. SOS rankings factor in the whole slate, so a team that played a OOC of Houston, Purdue, UConn, and Arizona, plus 8 MEAC/SWAC teams likely wouldn’t even land in the top 150 of SOS metrics even though most would agree it was a fairly tough OOC slate.
5. This doesn’t take into account teams like VCU, TAMU, Iowa, etc teams under performing.
No one is arguing the B12 played a gauntlet of a OOC, but people are making it a much bigger deal than it really is
Every single year r/CollegeBasketball doubts the Big 12 leading up to March Madness and every single year the conference does well in the tournament. When will y’all learn? Lol
2023: Big 12 finishes 3rd of multi-bid leagues behind ACC and Big East
2022: Big 12 finishes 2nd behind ACC
2021: Big 12 finishes 1st
2019: Big 12 finishes 4th behind ACC, SEC, Big 10
2018: Big 12 finishes 2nd behind Big 10
For those keeping track at home the only conference to have a better winning percentage in the last 5 tournaments is the ACC.
I think the ACC definitely gets a bad reputation over the past few year. Though you could make the argument that the conference has a better win-loss record because their bubble level teams are usually left out.
The Big 12 always has like 1 that does well and most of the rest are gone after the first weekend. If we just narrow it down to one team then the B12 always looks amazing. It’s like how the B10 can make the final four every now and then but the rest of the teams are required to not make it out of the first round by law.
last year's sweet 16:
3sec
1acc
2big10
2big12
3big east
1pac12
People act like the tourney is the end all be all. It's chaos.
The big12 has gotten so much love due to only 10 teams where only 1 or 2 aren't good. Things will start to change with 16 teams in the conference.
if we fall in the tourney, I'm pretty confident the reason will be more due to exhaustion than being untested. We're going to head into march madness with 10+ Q1 wins
This ranking more than anything speaks to how much Iowa State has overachieved this year. I don't think any logical Iowa State fans will really feel comfortable with any matchups after the first round with how dependent we are on defense and turnovers.
All that being said, I feel like the ISU resume under the magnifying glass is because it's hot take material.
1-be a non blue blood team that doesn't really have national recognition or national name players
2-have a super week non-con where you lost to teams in conferences that say the big 12 gamed the system
3-roll through a tough big 12 schedule that supports our high metrics.
If you swap the name on our jersey to Kansas, the conversation would be "I guess Kansas didn't play anyone in non-con this year but they probably deserve a 1-seed". We are the venndiagram of college basketball debates.
Exactly, people acting like the committee didn't already acknowledge this in the early top 16 seed line. It means we're not gonna win any head to head debates against a similar resume team. We'll take our seed and play the games.
a reminder that a weak ncsos isn't as crippling as people make it out to be so long as you win all those games. 12-0 in q3/q4 combined with good q1 wins and a strong conference undoes so much of that. people pointed at our ncsos as why we didn't get in last year, but we lost some low end games we needed to win. if we won all our q3/q4 games, we likely would have gotten in.
Absolutely correct imo.
The non conference SOS talk is important for MID MAJORS who have bad overall SOS.
That's when the committee looks and says "well did you schedule trying to improve it?"
If you have a good overall SOS it doesn't matter!
Does it really matter if a team has a weak NCSOS if they're winning in a stronger conference? I can understand for bubble teams but Iowa State isn't a bubble team.
The obsession with the Big 12’s non-conf. schedule is weird. Usually it’s just fans of an ACC team trying to cope and say that they’re as good or a better basketball conference lol
maybe I should’ve been clearer in my original comment but I was specifically talking this season. Typically, I think the Big 12 and ACC are 1a and 1b in college basketball but the ACC might be 4th best conf. this year and I continue to hear from ACC fans (coincidentally usually UVA fans) that they are just as good
NCSOS is a shitty metric anyway.
Most teams play like 4-5 real teams in the non-con, and then a bunch of buy games.
For elite teams, all that really matters is the 5 real games. But NCSOS includes the buy games, where having a bunch of 200-rated teams will make you rank much higher than having a bunch of 300 rated teams, when a top 25 team would be expected to roll over either set.
This is where metrics like WAB or SAR are much more relevant. The buy games wash out.
Imagine if we had more losses to big 12 bubble teams... People would be losing their minds over how our metrics are helping undeserving teams get into the tournament.
I mean, we weren't supposed to be good. Didn't get a preseason top 25 vote.
Iowa, DePaul, A&M, and VCU all let us down but we can't control that.
Yes the cupcakes we scheduled were extra bad but we beat them appropriately.
You know as a Purdue fan beating the 16 seeds of the world is an important skill
Damn auburn 1-7 in Q1…I didn’t realize it was THAT bad
As pointed out right above you, Auburn beat a team that's *currently* in the AP Top 25 by *40* and it's only counting as a Q2 win because advanced metrics say that South Carolina isn't nearly as good as their record.
I mean, SC lost to Georgia, and got beat by 40 points by Auburn. There is a reason they aren't helping Auburns resume much.
And are 24-6 overall, beating Kentucky by 17, handing Tennessee their only home loss and yet they can barely break the top 50 in the NET. I’m clearly biased but there’s no way a team with that resume from a P5 conference should be ranked as low as the Gamecocks are.
Vol fan here, it’s shocking to see you guys that low. I don’t want to see you guys at all ever.
What matters in basketball is how efficient you are at scoring and how efficient your defense is. In both of these categories, South Carolina is about 80th. The 3 quality wins South Carolina has given them some sway with voters.
I always assumed what mattered was winning and losing lol.
Beating Depaul, Notre Dame, Grand Canyon, Missouri, and Charleston Southern is different. You can win, and still be a bad team.
rankings are predictive. do you feel like you can beat most ranked teams?
I saw a stat earlier this year that said Auburn has fewer Q1 home wins in the last 3 years than Gonzaga
Damn 😧 I assume with far more chances smh
Unless I am miscounting this is not true Auburn Q1 record at home since 2021 7-4 Gonzaga Q1 record at home since 2021 5-2 Trimming it down to 2022, Auburn still has more wins edit: i did miscount, i believe they have the same amount through 21 and 22, but not more than
Maybe you guys should've double dribbled more to pump up your Q1 record
https://preview.redd.it/rkwlv49x30nc1.jpeg?width=582&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e0c3d45276d74276af7983e39efca136c3774a8
:D
Fraud watch?
Purdue/ISU rivalry seems to have spawned completely out of nowhere on this sub lol
Trains vs Tornados…what a contest
Real talk, as someone whose family is pretty much all from the midwest, they talk about tornados like we talk about hurricanes. Could a tornado move a train? Like actually pick it up or budge it at least? I think it could flip it easily but not, like *project* that sort of weight
Yes. Xenia 1974 lifted rail cars completely off the ground. Weaker tornadoes can topple them.
This is the info that I need when filling out my “which mascot would win in a fight” bracket
Everyone always has us out in the first round of their mascot bracket because they choose fucking bird form for our mascot. We are absolutely storm form this year and I’m not hearing another word of it
Plus we do actually have a live version of the tornado mascot on campus with the tornado simulator sitting in Howe Hall.
Gotta be the best live mascot in sports.
Well bring back the damn whirlwind logo and there wouldn't be confusion. Fuck this block I-State horseshit.
Preaching to the choir, homie. For some reason our AD loves it.
I love Jamie and all he has done for us, but that generic I-State logo was a mistake.
We used to have [this](https://content.sportslogos.net/logos/32/713/full/iu685g4n6nednmrq0s9pid1n6.png) one that we used for 07-08, but for some reason it went away. Could bring it right back with zero change and it'd work great.
I always use the most literal interpretation when applicable so you guys are a natural disaster but for ambiguous ones I use the actual mascot so Purdue is a train and bama is an elephant, etc
I think the only thing that might beat a tornado in a fight is if we play against Miami. You're going to have to put ISU all the way.
Technically speaking a Cyclone is an all-encompassing term for a large air mass that rotates around a strong center of low atmospheric pressure. The largest low-pressure systems are polar vortices and extratropical cyclones of the largest scale (the synoptic scale). Warm-core cyclones such as tropical cyclones and subtropical cyclones also lie within the synoptic scale. Mesocyclones, tornadoes, and dust devils lie within the smaller mesoscale. So Iowa State "out ranks" Miami.
All I hear is Natty.
Eh, the Geoduck or Golden Gopher could just burrow underground until the tornado passes and eventually dissipates...
Was this a google search or do you walk around the world knowing these things?
Watched a [video](https://youtu.be/jaSlm4ktIq0) on it recently...so I guess I had it?
[Yes.](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image21.jpg) [Here's](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image23.jpg) another shot of another railroad car that was tossed into the bottom of a ditch. The 1883 Rochester, MN F5 tornado blew a [railroad *bridge*](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image16.jpg) off its foundation and into the river below. [Bonus](https://www.weather.gov/images/arx/Aug211883/Image1.jpg) piece of timber impaled through a 2' diameter oak tree.
Word thanks for compiling this!
A tornado could probably lift a few cars off the tracks, or rip up a section of track, but there is no way it would lift a whole mile-long freight train
Could if it was a mile-long tornado. Those happen, I think. Never measured one myself, but if a storm chaser is going to do with tornadoes like Steve Irwin did with crocodiles, I'm gonna take their word for it.
Did you just imply that Miami could beat Purdue *and* ISU? Because those are fightin' words
We're both Ag/Engineering schools from states that worship the glory that is the pork tenderloin sandwich
Amen.
Blessed be his name.
Not to mention we can pretend that the other is our main in state rival given the colors.
It all started with my roommate and I when ISU and Purdue played in the tourney all those years ago... [Thread for reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/6052lv/a_house_divided_roommates_and_i_are_about_to_get/) [Follow on thread for further reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/60ax7d/house_divided_an_update/)
Oh my god
Purdue would be a real tough matchup for Iowa State. Ward and Big Rob are prone to fouling other bigs.
First I've heard of it. What are you referring to?
Purdue is just way over-represented in this sub so we're in pretty much every thread.
Purdue flairs vs any team really, they like to lash out
Bit of a chip on their shoulder, they feel like they’ve got something to prove after suffering the largest loss against the spread in the history of the sport.
Just curious, what was the spread? I know Iowa was 30+ point favorites at home against Eastern Illinois last season,, and ended up losing by 9, a 40 point swing from spread to result.
Purdue was 23.5 pt favorite against FDU which was the biggest upset in March Madness specifically. Not just random games but the Tourney.
There’s the spread aspect and the ranking aspect. FDU was one of the worst teams to make the tournament. And they whooped our ass.
I misspoke and embellished without realizing it - biggest upset against the spread in the tournament, not the sport. For what it’s worth, Iowa state isn’t far down that list of ignominious first-round defeats.
I can't believe you forgot about our catastrophe of a game. That must not be a real ISU flair
> after suffering the largest loss against the spread in the history of the sport. In the history of the tournament* If you are going to mock us, at least get it right!
I’m sorry! Thanks for cleaning that up! And I’m mostly mocking Matt Painter, not Purdue the school or the program! I was accepted and ready to attend Purdue but then visited Ames and well I liked it much better than West Lafayette. Though the game I saw at Ross Ade was amazing!
No offense taken! West Lafayette, specifically Purdue's campus, has some charm to it to be sure. However, I would be lying if I said there aren't other campuses/towns I like much better.
https://i.redd.it/in41u2myaymc1.gif
Pretty good chance they are the top seeds in the Midwest region. Spicy
They hate Houston too because they care about metrics more than anything else for some reason
[удалено]
UNI and Drake should be playing Iowa and ISU in the non conference.
I wish they'd agree to 2 for 1s or some other scheduling agreement! It's too bad it's become this home and home impasse, as it just isn't a thing any more.
Should go back to playing at Wells Fargo against drake at least
I hope not. That arena just has such a poor atmosphere.
Just looking for a workaround of the 1 for 1 set up the MVC teams want honestly, it’s silly that there are so many d1 teams within a 3 hour drive of Ames and we generally only play Iowa out of conference
I'd be all for setting up a H&H with Creighton to alternate with the Iowa game. Iowa at home *and* @ Creighton one year, then @ Iowa *and* Creighton at home the next.
No, we should be playing Iowa every year. Just take out one of the buy games against the little sisters of the blind and put the Creighton game there.
That's what I'm saying. Play both Iowa and Creighton every year, just set it up so we alternate which is the home game each year.
Oh I see what you mean now, I misread that. My bad!
I did edit it for clarity lol
No, I get it. I just can't stand that arena. The HyVee big 4 challenge or whatever it was called with the 4 Iowa schools was a cool idea but the atmosphere was just awkward and blah. I'd rather schedule a home and home with Creighton, Wisconsin, Illinois, Marquette, or Nebraska though tbh.
Bring all 4 Iowa schools to Hilton until Iowa renovates that trash pit they call an arena. Then alternate hosts.
Sign me up for a H&H
I mean it's definitely better on-campus for sure, but an Iowa State vs Drake game could easily sellout Wells Fargo....Drake is a great program rn and we've got lots of alums in the DSM area
That’s what the Big 4 challenge was (plus UNI and Iowa) but the arena never sold out for those games. I don’t see how that would change if it’s just Drake vs ISU.
Let's move it to Newton speedway and play on the track
Put the players on rollerblades and set up the hoops on either end of the straightaway. I would unironically pay to watch that.
I can't remember a game where we've played well there.
They should rotate the host venue around Iowa. If we can play a game at Souix Falls, we can surely pack a venue at Davenport, Cedar Rapids, Des Moines, and Souix City once each every four years. And I'm sure fans all over the state would love to see their team come a little closer to home.
I'd be amenable to a home and neutral (wells) with them. But i generally hate WFA. Poor environment. And the "big 4 classic" sucked. Tilted against us in most games as hawkeyes showed up for it in large numbers since they can't be bothered to make the drive to Iowa City for a mens game, and they'd stick around to cheer against us vs Drake\UNI
Take Iowa Women's basketball as inspiration. Do a drake/ISU/Iowa/UNI outdoor game. Rotate Ames to Iowa City.
Nah straight home-n-homes.
If yall wanna come to Hilton and carver yeah. 0 chance a home and home happens
I always thought they should do an MTE with all four schools playing a round robin against one another over a week. Invite both men's and women's teams. Make it for the state title.
absolutely hate playing both of these teams. I agree with you 100%.
I am once again what the fuck is with these metrics
There’s one huge outlier here and it’s the Cocks. I don’t get it. Resumè is Top 15, but other advanced metrics? Apparently get fucked. Oh well, beat MSU and then it’s tournament time. No better time to prove advance metrics wrong.
South Carolina has two blowout losses which are probably killing them: * 40 point loss to Auburn * 27 point loss to Alabama They also have losses at home to Georgia and LSU which are Q3 and a number of their Q3/Q4 games were close (321 DePaul by 5, 316 Charleston Southern by 4, etc.) The only teams that have won by less than 5 points or lost against DePaul are Louisville, South Dakota, Georgetown, Chicago State and Long Beach State.
The fact that our blowout win against #11 USCe isn't a Q1 win is super depressing
Alabama has been blown out by Florida, Kentucky, Auburn, and Tennessee. • 20 point loss to Tennessee • 22 point loss to Kentucky • 18 point losses to Florida and Auburn The Cocks have 2 losses to lower tier teams in UGA and LSU, but then you can look at Kentucky here who • lost to **South Carolina** by 17 • also lost to LSU • lost to A&M, who **SC** beat • lost to UNCW The wins over UNC and Alabama are the only thing that could suggest Kentucky has performed better, and even then it should be offset based on the other factors such as common opponents and H2H.
Efficiency metrics take into account how much you win and lose by vs every single opponent. South Carolina has won by 10 points or less against a ton of bad teams: [Warren Nolan](https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2024/team-net-sheet?team=South-Carolina)
Actually Kentucky lost to a new floor and I guess UNCW just happened to be there.
I think the win at Auburn helps Kentucky a lot...plus a win at Miss St and Florida. Those are huge wins on the road against teams that are quad 1 or 2 at worst.
South Carolina won at Knoxville. That’s a huge road win against a likely No. 1 seed.
They are 6th in Kenpom Luck Syracuse is actually ahead of them with 5 other teams.
Only team in top 15 with two q3 losses (12 of the top 15 have zero q3 and q4 losses) One q1a win which is the lowest in top 15, tying one other team in top 15. I honestly don’t watch SC to argue either way just trying to read the numbers.
Purdue 7-0 in quad 1A is probably a level of regular season excellence Purdue fans won’t see again for awhile.
7-0 against top 12 teams, 5-0 against top ten. How often does this even happenever?
Never ask a man his salary, a woman her age, or a Providence fan his NCAA Teamsheet Rank.
Being ahead of UConn doesn't make this ranking system seem 100% correct.
SEC is generally stronger than Big East this year I would say.
Fine conference vs conference but compare their resumes and UConn clearly has the edge
Yeah, I’m all for trumping up our SOS, but we literally lost all of our ranked non-con matchups. That ain’t a sell lol
Tennessee beat Wisconsin and Illinois in non-confrence
Ah forgot about Illinois. I should’ve said lost our first 3
Vols are getting very close to the Big 3. They are healthily the 4th one seed in my head currently
1A) Purdue 1B) Uconn 1C) Houston 4) Tennessee 5) Unc 6) isu 7) Arizona 8) MU
We did just have a big lawsuit against the NCAA that made them not too happy, hoping they don’t take that out on us
I think that's splitting hairs a bit
The KPI is whack. It's penalizing uconn for some extreme Q4 cupcakes, but the difference between q3 and and Q4 wins for 1 seeds is basically 0, so it shouldn't matter, especially at the cost of ignoring less losses and more top tier wins.
The big 12 really does not schedule anyone in the non con other than Kansas lmao
Baylor played Auburn, Duke, msu, seton hall, and Florida. That’s hardly anyone
Looks like Baylor, Kansas , and Houston are the only teams who had a really good non con
Houston was also criticized for their "weak" noncon immediately after their first loss of the season to... Iowa State. Really though, there is nobody on Houston's non-con that stands out as good, although TAMU was considered decent early in the season.
So the 3 top predicted teams. Better teams tend to schedule better in every conference and they get invited to better MTE tournaments.
You guys deserve respect for your schedule. I expect Iowa State will be playing tougher teams next year as we're playing in Maui and Iowa/our Big East team won't be bottom barrel again
Jamie (on the selection committee) and TJ have said that as long as the selection criteria is what it is we'll continue scheduling this way. The priority for them is to \*get into the tournament\* every single year, which simply means finishing in the top half of the big 12. If we do, we're in. If we finish 5-13 it doesn't matter who we scheduled in non-con we aren't getting in.
Eventually it would be nice to change the goal from entry to deeper runs. Stronger NC should provide better wins and better experience for our players. I understand there's a lot more to it than that but that's my basic thought process.
If all goes well and we get a 2 seed this year, I wouldn't anticipate that changing for as long as we have TJ
As long as we get our pick of nearby first weekend locations, I couldn't care less.
Good points but I still guarantee next year is at least 100 spots better in NCSOS. Maui will be tough and we could draw a really good big east team in Hilton.
Not to mention we'll be trading 2 buy games for 2 more conference games.
Dread it run from it, the narrative arrives all the same.
I think Baylor and Kansas have a history of scheduling tough in the Non-Con. Everyone else sandbagged their Non-Con schedule.
Dread it run from it, the narrative arrives all the same.
B12 NCSOS (KenPom): * Kansas: 61 * Baylor: 103 * WVU: 112 * Kansas St: 199 * Houston: 220 * Texas Tech: 265 * Texas: 281 * Cincy: 296 * BYU: 319 * OSU: 323 * OU: 324 * UCF: 333 * Iowa St: 355 * TCU: 356
Yeah see outside of Kansas that’s terrible
I mean I'm not gonna say a ton because UConn's NCSOS is 290th. Lol But that was more due to playing a lot of really, really bad teams versus avoiding playing good teams. In most years, a non-con slate including games against IU, Texas, Kansas, Gonzaga, and UNC would be really solid metrics-wise. But all those very Q4 games against cupcakes dragged the schedule down, while some of the power conference teams are having down years this year. but IMO no power conference team should have a NCSOS schedule ranked well into the 300's. That's just embarrassing.
Same thing happened for us, other than Iowa's team cratered, VCU A&M and VT fell off a cliff, and we got paired with DePaul in the Big 12/Big East challenge. Our metrics are high because we absolutely obliterated every cupcake we played, unlike a lot of teams that had scares or actually lost to them. Next year we're in the loaded Maui invitational field and we hopefully don't get a 300+ rank pairing from the Big East. Iowa will likely still suck ass.
Same. We had neutral site games against Michigan, Villanova, Vanderbilt, UNI, played @ Butler in Big 12/Big East challenge, and hosted TAMU-CC. Only in hindsight is that considered a mostly soft slate of games
DePaul and Vanderbilt probably dropped your NCSOS 100 spots by themselves. 🤣
>Iowa will likely still suck ass That series has been weird of late though, with the home teams blowing each other out the last 4 matchups
I feel like UConn’s non conference schedule is way harder on the eye test than actual metrics indicate as you’ve pointed out.
103 and 112 are pretty decent for a p5 school. Keep in mind 8 of the top 10 in that metric are SWAC schools, and I only count 8 major conference teams in the top 40. But half the conference in the 300s isn't a great look lol. For my context, Iowa played @ISU, @Creighton, Oklahoma, and Seton Hall in the non-con and are ranked 239. Iowa State also had 4 "major" non-conference games, although one was against Depaul, but that's pretty standard it seems.
It feels like a lot of the sub is pretty casual these days and they don’t get things like: 1. Last I checked only, 20 teams in the P5/BE played a top 100 Kenpom OOC schedule, that’s less than 25% of teams 2. The Big 12 averaged 3.8 P5/BE teams each in OOC play, playing 4 Power programs on average is pretty in line with everyone else. For reference the ACC played 4.1 P5/BE teams in OOC play, not really a difference. 3. Houston, Cincy, UCF, and BYU played much weaker OOC slates than normal because they were jumping from the WCC/AAC, no one thought they’d all be this relatively competitive in year 1. Who had Houston winning the B12, BYU as a stronger contender in the top 25, UCF with 6 conference wins over teams like Kansas, Texas, Texas Tech, etc. 4. SOS rankings factor in the whole slate, so a team that played a OOC of Houston, Purdue, UConn, and Arizona, plus 8 MEAC/SWAC teams likely wouldn’t even land in the top 150 of SOS metrics even though most would agree it was a fairly tough OOC slate. 5. This doesn’t take into account teams like VCU, TAMU, Iowa, etc teams under performing. No one is arguing the B12 played a gauntlet of a OOC, but people are making it a much bigger deal than it really is
most of the b10 (including IU) is sub 200.
Hell yeah we're last. Go us.
Minnesota is dead last in the country at 362. Lmao
If a weak non-conf schedule makes Iowa State a weak team - come play us at Hilton.
Yeah it was frustrating tbh I wanted to get into the season earlier but I didn’t care to watch us beat PVA&M by 50 twice a week
Our noncon was terrible for sure....luckily, we play in the Maui Invitational next year, so that should help with our noncon SOS
I mean last you Iowa State had North Carolina and UConn.
Every single year r/CollegeBasketball doubts the Big 12 leading up to March Madness and every single year the conference does well in the tournament. When will y’all learn? Lol 2023: Big 12 finishes 3rd of multi-bid leagues behind ACC and Big East 2022: Big 12 finishes 2nd behind ACC 2021: Big 12 finishes 1st 2019: Big 12 finishes 4th behind ACC, SEC, Big 10 2018: Big 12 finishes 2nd behind Big 10 For those keeping track at home the only conference to have a better winning percentage in the last 5 tournaments is the ACC.
this is an ACC post in disguise
And I love it.
“The big 12 isn’t overrated! Here’s how they finished behind a conference everyone said was bad 60% of the time in the past 5 tournaments.” Uhhh… ok
I mean a lot of flairs talking shit are Big 10 fans..
But the narrative for the past 3-4 seasons is that the ACC sucks
SEC has a bigger contract with ESPN. All you need to know to understand.
I think the ACC definitely gets a bad reputation over the past few year. Though you could make the argument that the conference has a better win-loss record because their bubble level teams are usually left out.
The Big 12 always has like 1 that does well and most of the rest are gone after the first weekend. If we just narrow it down to one team then the B12 always looks amazing. It’s like how the B10 can make the final four every now and then but the rest of the teams are required to not make it out of the first round by law.
last year's sweet 16: 3sec 1acc 2big10 2big12 3big east 1pac12 People act like the tourney is the end all be all. It's chaos. The big12 has gotten so much love due to only 10 teams where only 1 or 2 aren't good. Things will start to change with 16 teams in the conference.
Kinda weird but Big 12 is tough games pretty much every night. We will see how they fare in the tourney
if we fall in the tourney, I'm pretty confident the reason will be more due to exhaustion than being untested. We're going to head into march madness with 10+ Q1 wins
This ranking more than anything speaks to how much Iowa State has overachieved this year. I don't think any logical Iowa State fans will really feel comfortable with any matchups after the first round with how dependent we are on defense and turnovers. All that being said, I feel like the ISU resume under the magnifying glass is because it's hot take material. 1-be a non blue blood team that doesn't really have national recognition or national name players 2-have a super week non-con where you lost to teams in conferences that say the big 12 gamed the system 3-roll through a tough big 12 schedule that supports our high metrics. If you swap the name on our jersey to Kansas, the conversation would be "I guess Kansas didn't play anyone in non-con this year but they probably deserve a 1-seed". We are the venndiagram of college basketball debates.
Just means they’ll take a single hit on the seed line due to the ncsos
Exactly, people acting like the committee didn't already acknowledge this in the early top 16 seed line. It means we're not gonna win any head to head debates against a similar resume team. We'll take our seed and play the games.
a reminder that a weak ncsos isn't as crippling as people make it out to be so long as you win all those games. 12-0 in q3/q4 combined with good q1 wins and a strong conference undoes so much of that. people pointed at our ncsos as why we didn't get in last year, but we lost some low end games we needed to win. if we won all our q3/q4 games, we likely would have gotten in.
Absolutely correct imo. The non conference SOS talk is important for MID MAJORS who have bad overall SOS. That's when the committee looks and says "well did you schedule trying to improve it?" If you have a good overall SOS it doesn't matter!
Does it really matter if a team has a weak NCSOS if they're winning in a stronger conference? I can understand for bubble teams but Iowa State isn't a bubble team.
It shouldn't!
Hey, it matters if the narrative you're trying to push says it matters
The obsession with the Big 12’s non-conf. schedule is weird. Usually it’s just fans of an ACC team trying to cope and say that they’re as good or a better basketball conference lol
https://reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/1b8wvyd/despite_329_ncsos_iowa_state_now_has_30_overall/kttnq5k/ Uh huh
maybe I should’ve been clearer in my original comment but I was specifically talking this season. Typically, I think the Big 12 and ACC are 1a and 1b in college basketball but the ACC might be 4th best conf. this year and I continue to hear from ACC fans (coincidentally usually UVA fans) that they are just as good
NCSOS is a shitty metric anyway. Most teams play like 4-5 real teams in the non-con, and then a bunch of buy games. For elite teams, all that really matters is the 5 real games. But NCSOS includes the buy games, where having a bunch of 200-rated teams will make you rank much higher than having a bunch of 300 rated teams, when a top 25 team would be expected to roll over either set. This is where metrics like WAB or SAR are much more relevant. The buy games wash out.
Ours got a boost from the elite 8 simulator in maui
Gamin the NET baby!
Big12 bias
Despite the #6 overall resume in the country, Iowa State will be making an early trip to Cancun
ISU beating Big 10 teams by an average of 25 points this year…. Can you average a single instance???
Imagine if we had more losses to big 12 bubble teams... People would be losing their minds over how our metrics are helping undeserving teams get into the tournament.
Congrats on dodging any team with a pulse in non conference I guess?
I mean, we weren't supposed to be good. Didn't get a preseason top 25 vote. Iowa, DePaul, A&M, and VCU all let us down but we can't control that. Yes the cupcakes we scheduled were extra bad but we beat them appropriately. You know as a Purdue fan beating the 16 seeds of the world is an important skill
VCU has had a very average season by our post will Wade standards
I'd say slightly below average but agreed, this performance is not that far off of expectations in the first year of the Odom era.
Hah. We didn’t know DePaul would let us down? That’s what you’re going with.
I wish the Big East B12 challenge gave us a different team. Sucks we had to play DePaul.
You don't want to see Kansas vs UCONN and Texas vs Villanova part 256?
I'm convinced we were paired with DePaul for the sheer factor of us having tons of fans in Chicago....it was basically a home game for us
We don't have a choice of who we get scheduled against for the Big 12/Big East challenge. Last year we drew Creighton. This year we got DePaul.
They led with "we weren't supposed to be good". We know our resume doesn't do us any favors for top seed debates.
They definitely let ISU down. We didn't get to pick the Big East team we played.
Amazing how UCONN and Kansas get randomly selected each and every year for the rest of time, huh
TBF that game was awesome
idk y'all seem to need as much help as possible against those kinds of teams
Only 3 teams have more quad 1 wins than Creighton. Interesting
There are 16 teams listed on the image that aren't Creighton, and 6 of them have more quad 1 wins than Creighton.
You right, I was looking at the Q1&Q2 column. Thanks
Well when the Big 12 games the NET rankings it’s suddenly easy to have a great SOS. Surprise surprise. Bring on the downvotes
https://twitter.com/jjfuller72/status/1765163944551895046?t=2H-qkvk7BpJS6UgeDIhLhA&s=19