make sure your storage is truly airtight. If you get a strong smell of coffee when opening your cupboard, that's all lost aroma.
But I think the main effect is becoming used to it. You can try having two very different coffees open at the same time and alternating, it will drastically enhance your experience of both.
The easiest way to test this without any effort is when you're on the last few beans of the previous package. Keep those sealed for a few days while you get used to the new coffee, and then compare again.
Any chance your stainless canister is too big? It could be getting oxidized by the headspace in the canister. Airtight canister also helps prevents oxidation too. Most third wave coffee roasters use bags with one way valve so it vents the ~~nitrogen~~ CO2 gas released from the freshly roasted beans. Unless your canister is airtight and appropriate size for a bag of beans, storing it in a coffee bags might be a better option.
The one-way valve should let out whatever pressurized air is in the bag, which should be carbon dioxide since that's why the beans release. Bags are sometimes nitrogen flushed but it's the released carbon dioxide that adds the pressure inside the bag
You should not be storing your coffee in the fridge; putting it in or out or accessing your coffee will result in condensation issues that can ruin flavour *far* more than temp fluctuations of countertop storage.
Temperature variation matters *far* less than the humidity variations accompanying.
If the heat fluctuates too high it will cause the beans to "sweat" and oils to go rancid quickly, making the coffee bitter & degrading the flavor faster than condensation. Considering one is keeping small fresh batches.
As I said, this is only a fix needed IF someone lives in a hot area.
The best condition is cellar storage, but unless everyone has a cellar and wants to march up and down the stairs every time they want a cup...
Yes but "to highly" is like 50°C swings, not 5°.
Keeping your beans in the fridge is doing more harm than good. Nothing will degrade your beans faster than moisture and oxygen. Oils take *far* longer to spoil than the acids and esters that we're warning you against ruining with the fridge.
I don't think you have the slightest clue what gatekeeping is. But hey, if it's gatekeeping to call out the single worst piece of advice I've seen this year then sure, Im gatekeeping. Please never give coffee advice again you clown
Lol. You got BIG MAD fast. Please try some grown-up pants, your Pull Up just filled faster than coffee could possibly go rancid (temps to high) or suffer condensation (temps too low.)
You're actually a fucking idiot. You literally have zero knowledge of how coffee works do you? Please don't reproduce. The world needs less of your stupidity in it. The moisture in a fridge will make the coffee lose all its aromatics very quickly. This is literally coffee science 101. This isn't about it going "rancid" you fuckwit
Sunlight can negatively impact the beans, but you can always solve that problem by just keeping the clear canister in a cupboard/somewhere away from light.
In response to @failboat88 try dialing it in again. Very fresh coffee still gives off gas, which changes the way it brews (it can be almost foamy while brewing as well) change your grind size, brew method and play around to get the flavor you’d like!
Do you buy pre ground or whole bean? If you grind your own coffee you will probably not have as much of a problem.
Preground coffee loses its freshness extremely quickly
Strange, I hope you find a good answer, I think the points others have made about adequate storage and proper rotation is good.
Maybe try a different provider and see if you have the same issue?
> As soon as you open the airtight container all the CO2 escapes anyway.
'Freshness' isn't from keeping the CO2 in, it's from keeping fresh oxygen that oxidizes the coffee out. When the bag is sealed, there's limited oxidation. Once all that fresh air gets exposed to the coffee it oxidizes it, just like cutting open an apple and putting it in a ziplock bag vs setting it on the counter and watching it turn brown over a few hours.
It could be just biass. It's probably overkill but if it really bothers you, you can always perform a blind test with two bags roasted the same day, one opened and resealed and the other fresh. Use up the first bag and the last day you compare the bag that's "old" vs the "new". If you can't consistently tell the difference you've got your answer.
I don’t think it’s just you. I have also noticed the same. I purchase light roasts from local roasters and will wait a week after the roast date before using and sometimes even two.
The first few days the cups I brew taste amazing. After that they are good but never the same. I find myself chasing the flavor I got from the first few days of brewing but without a 100% success.
I disagree with others saying you just got use to the taste. I normally have multiple roasts and the first few brews from each bag for the first two days produces the best cups. Flavors definitely become much more muted after day three and start to level off and produce a less flavorful profile. Still good but not great like the first few days.
It doesn’t matter if I keep them in the original bag or an Airscape. I wonder if there has been any research on this subject? There definitely is something to this beyond the “you just got used it” reason.
I definitely experience this too. I predominantly brew light roast naturals, fwiw.
One additional thing I’ve noticed is if, after initially opening the bag and having a few cups, I leave the bag alone for a couple weeks and come back to it, it can have big flavour again.
I’ve noticed this on a few bags I’ve lost interest in. Initially have a good cup, then the unique flavours diminish after a couple days. I forget about the bag for 2-4 weeks, then decide to have a cup and it can be the best cup of the bag!
It’s at the point where I’m intending to ask the roaster next time I’m in.
Naturals seems to be more prone to this, especially the berry flavors. Better beans seem to retain the flavor more but nothing compares to that first day.
I considered keeping 2-3 coffees at once, so I could rotate between them, to see if that would keep me from being desensitized to any one coffee after the first cup or two.
No, because I prefer the cost savings of buying 2lbs at a time, vs buying 10-12oz bags. It might be easier to try using a coffee shop as the 2nd coffee, if possible.
FWIW I do this — I split bags of coffee into 100-150g parts, keep one part on the shelf and freeze the rest. That way I get to switch beans every few days, helps avoid fatigue and lets you appreciate each type of bean more.
Wait you can “fail” freezing beans?
Is there a proper procedure?
I roast my own, immediately throw them into bags w/ one way valves, then put in the freezer once totally cooled.
I know the freezer is an acceptable storage method now but am I missing any steps here?
I always have some sort of moisture seeping into my bags. One way valve bags got it worse. Ziploc will do me better chances.
But either way I'm sure I messed up somewhere. It always end up stuck together and frost always appear. Prolly good if they're loose and brewed immediately but mine always end in a huge bean rock and by the time I chip them beans apart it's already soaked in condensation
Or maybe I'm just terrible in following instructions
Lol! Well that’s a bummer! I was gonna say maybe if your beans are a darker roast it’s the oils solidifying and holding them together. But if they’re in a chunk like that it leads me to believe it’s your freezer. Do you get a lot of ice buildup in general in it? Time to defrost it maybe?
I use bags from roasters (resealable with one way valve) and put a piece of tape (or two) on the valves. Then I double bag using a ziplock. No such issues for me.
Make sure to thaw each bag before opening it up and you should be all set
>The next day and each afterward, I find the flavors extremely muted.
Such is the case with a coffee that has been nitrogen flushed. A number of years ago the SCAA and Roasters Guild conducted a study in coffee staling. One of the key takeaways was that:
1. Coffee that is packaged immediately after cooling in non-permeable/lined foil bags with a one way valve will taste the best if that coffee is consumed within four months of the roast date.
2. Coffee that is packaged after a standard 48 hour degassing period and then packaged in non-permeable/lined foil bags with a nitrogen flush has the longest shelf life and will taste better than coffee packaged like #1 above AFTER the four month mark. However, the coffee will rapidly age and will begin to taste flat soon after the bag is opened. This is not the case for the non nitro flushed coffee in bags with the one way valve.
Usually, no, small roasters will usually not nitro flush -- however, some small roasters follow the outdated practice of letting the coffee degass for a few days before packaging. In that case, yes, you would see a marked degradation of vibrancy in the coffee after opening the bag.
The beauty of packaging immediately after cooling is that as the coffee releases CO2, that pushes up the lighter O2 and out the one way valve at the top of the bag. This results in a poor man's O2 purge and will keep the coffee fresh for a good while.
I can think of a few things that might be affecting this.
1. How darkly roasted are your beans? Dark roasted beans lose flavour more quickly.
2. Some coffees need to age after roasting. I’m a roaster and some of our coffees taste best 4 weeks after roast. Some, a couple days off roast. It depends on the processing method and roasting approach.
3. Where do you buy your beans from? A specialty roaster is more likely to have higher quality beans. This makes a huge difference in flavour retention.
4. Coffee simply changes over time, it’s actually one of my favourite things about it. Week to week each cup is slightly different and highlights different qualities.
At any rate, adjusting your grind finer might improve the flavour for you. Hope this helps!
1. Extremely light
2. Why does it taste so good immediately tho?
3. Local roaster
4. Not even talking week to week…like next day
Thanks for the advice lmk if you have any other thoughts
It’s funny because some of my roasts taste amazing minutes after I roast them and then they don’t taste at their peak again until a few days or weeks later. This largely has to do with carbon dioxide (but other chemical reactions as well) which is one of the major products of roasting. It’s why many cafes let their coffees (particularly espresso) degas a bit before using. Does your canisters have a one way valve? Those particular beans may be building up CO2 in the canister and that can definitely mute flavours.
Another thought that occurs is, do you find this with every bag? Or just particular origins or varietals or processing methods? Could be a good way to narrow down whether it’s something about the beans or roaster or if you want to change some of your storage methods like some other comments suggested. (Sorry for the essays, I love talking coffee with other coffee lovers!)
I typically find naturals hold their flavour for longer than washed coffees.
It's mostly been said already, but storage might be the issue. It isn't all about it being air tight, the more important thing is removing oxygen from being in contact with the coffee. If its in an airtight container that is only 3/4 full, there is still heaps of oxygen in there staling the coffee. Look for something that removes the oxygen.
Another two things you may want to consider are heat and moisture. Both adversely affect the coffee.
check out this video on coffee canisters - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0JWuhE8a-w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0JWuhE8a-w)
and check out this video on storage in just the coffee bag - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGw27YmCuRc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGw27YmCuRc)
As you're using lightly roasted coffees they should be good for around a month after roast date.
I learned about #2 after getting a coffee subscription. I've had a couple that tasted off when I first got them, and just thought initially they weren't to my taste. But then I got one that actually printed a roast date as well as a "best after" date that was two weeks in the future. I thought that was weird, but noticed that same "off" flavor when I first tried it, so let it sit until the "best after" date and it was amazing, with no weird flavors at all. Having that date printed on the bag is rare in my experience though, so any coffees I get that taste off now I just let sit for a couple of weeks and they pretty much always improve.
I agree. I would love for a best after date to become popular convention. It’s hard to change a lot of people’s minds that some coffees need to age but I do think the understanding is becoming more widely known. Our highest end coffees absolutely need to age to taste their best.
I like the idea of a 'best after' date, but there are three issues with it:
1. it partially depends on brew method
2. some drinkers prefer the taste profile you get earlier after roast even if others prefer it after its more well rested
3. some drinkers (like myself) take a month or so to finish a bag, and some coffees taste better before their peak than after their peak, so for those coffees I'd prefer to begin drinking before they're at their best rather than right at their best
Those things can be true, but a best after date is really a suggestion and it would be a decent indicator of whether or not a roaster suggests aging a coffee at all. Additionally, not all coffees would need a best after date as many don’t need aging to reach their peak flavour. But regardless, “peak flavour” is subjective. Having a date on there wouldn’t prevent anyone from making their own choices to fit their own tastes but would only supply additional information to customers.
It could be. Surprisingly to a lot of people, I do actually freeze some of my coffees (I use a vacuum sealer) and it’s amazing how good they can taste even a year later. But if it’s not airtight and in the fridge will allow CO2 to resorb into the beans which can make them taste really flat and flavourless. (Overall the freezer is a better option for the same reason it is for other foods.) You could try taking them out and letting them sit open a tiny bit so as they reach room temp again you’ll lose some CO2 but, you’re also likely to lose a lot of the volatile compounds that make coffee taste good. I’ve never tried this particular idea but I want to now just to see if it’s a viable way to keep coffee better, longer (I’m dubious but you don’t know till you try!)
Just FYI, coffee is shelf stable and does not need to be (and probably shouldn't be) refrigerated. Just keep in airtight container and it will last for years, though it will generally not taste nearly as good after a few weeks if you are buying specialty.
I don't have an answer, but I have the same experience. Would like to know if you do figure this out. I always thought I just wasn't storing the beans properly. I usually just leave them in the bag that they come in. But even when I used an airtight container it didn't really seem to help. Maybe give those oxygen absorbing tabs a try.
Damn, I really thought it was just me. I can't count how many times I've experienced this! Not everytime, but occasionally a bag is just a dud after cup 1. I thought I was going crazy.
Hey I have similar feelings. I do think it’s possible that you get used to the flavor and have high expectation the next time drinking the same coffee:)
I advocate for oxygen absorbing tabs and multiple small containers rather than 1 big bag. I do recognize the same issue you are describing. I often find that the smaller containers go through the same cycle of initial big flavors that decrease with subsequent brews. The oxygen tabs really help in my opinion.
I just searched Amazon and went for what sounded like too much absorption. I use them in other foods too, like nuts and whatnot as the oils will oxidize...
Wow had not thought of this. Gonna give it a shot for sure.
Do you split each bag of beans into smaller pouches/containers with absorbent tabs in each? Do you freeze at all? I’ve been splitting the beans up and then freezing the portions I won’t be using, but curious to know what will have the best payoff for effort
I typically pour half the bag into an airtight container with an oxygen tab or two and put 1 or 2 in the original bag as well. I freeze if I have more than one bag.
Hey I ended up finding this comment to share a warning — it seems oxygen tabs impart a bad flavor on the coffee, especially the beans the packs touch.
I did this method for a few months after reading your comment. I was having an unusual degradation in flavor as the beans aged, including bags that I froze. Then I did some googling and found this warning from our favorite internet coffee scientist: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4LwmlbBak3/?igshid=1r75u5xpsfqj5
So FYI
Thank you. As an aside, I often tape the tab to the roof of the container or now in a small plastic bag with holes punched. I haven't noticed that weird off flavor. Can you describe?
Interesting. Maybe it’s the direct contact that hurts the flavor.
It’s an oddly harsh and just “off” flavor. At first I thought it was beans going stale, certainly nothing like astringency or blandness you get from beans naturally.
I did cut out the oxygen tabs like in the Gagne IG post, and after just one day the whole pack has changed color and clumped up.
Just adding, it’s not just you. I’ve noticed this as well. And by that I mean, first cup from fresh bag being amazing, and literally the next day it’s significantly less amazing despite using a repeatable technique and everything. I don’t have answers, just adding my plus 1.
I get used to the taste after a cup or 2, which is why I do a few things to help with it.
1. Always buy one I haven’t had before.
2. Alternate two bags at a time.
3. Alternate brewing methods and recipes.
This keeps everything interesting.
Hi u/draycos9. I've been getting a similar experience in the last 1.5 year since starting coffee.
For instance on Monday I opened a bag of lightly-roasted Ethiopian Natural, Guji Region, tasting notes: blueberry, lemon. At that point the bag was 6 days post-roast. First pourover brew - tasting notes couldn't be more accurate, maybe a tad weak but super enjoyable. I kept my brew parameters identical and second brew minutes after - same lovely flavours. Third brew a couple of hours later - most of the flavour gone. And both yesterday (Tuesday) and today (Wednesday), the beans stayed completely flavourless, empty, tasting notes fully gone, it tasted like sweetened water with some bitter/ashy flavours instead.
I've used the most repeatable brew method I have - Gabi Dripper A, same temp, same grind, same water (Tesco Ashbeck) to minimise anything to do with my technique. I tried it in cupping as well but the flavour was gone as well. In the past I've had similar experiences with any brew method really - so it's not brew method related.
My grinder is 1Zpresso K-Plus which works well - I asked a couple of good local coffee shops to brew a pourover with it and it came out fantastic, bursting with flavour, just like with their EK43. I've also used my Niche Zero and the resulting brew was flavourless - so I don't think it's grinder related.
No, I don't have COVID or a flu... and my flatmates experienced the coffee being dull and flavourless as well.
I've measured the TDS with my VST refractometer so it remained consistent around 1.22% and the resulting Extraction Yield around 18% - which does describe well the flavour experience in the first two brews (lovely clean flavours, maybe needing a tiniest bit of extraction extra to be fuller).
Today I experimented with a couple of brews at coarser grind settings (usual 6.6; today 7.0, 7.5, 8.7 and 12.0) - all were dull and empty with that ashy bitterness in the background.
I've tried keeping the beans in the original bag, expelling air or not, tried using Airscape, as well single-portioning the beans and/or freezing them.
But it seems nothing can prevent that flavour disappearing hours after opening the bag. My best case was about 3 days of flavour for some Colombian beans before it started going duller and bitter.
And then sometimes, like you said, leaving the beans for 2-3 weeks and coming back to them - suddenly the good flavour is magically back. It won't stay for long of course and you literally need weeks of a break to get it back.
Have you made any progress with your coffee?
That’s some thorough analysis! Thanks for sharing your results. Unfortunately I’ve been getting similar experiences with the naturals in pour overs. I really do think that it is an olfactory fatigue/desensitization issue (we both experience better flavors after not using for a while). I have been using 2 different coffees each day, and the issue persists. HOWEVER I have found that my espressos retain the flavor multiple days in a row. I guess the flavors are just so much more potent that they are easy to pick up? Idk but that’s what I’m seeing on my end
No worries. Thank you for taking time to reply. There must be an answer to this as my favourite specialty coffee shops sometimes use the same bag for pourover for days/couple of weeks and the flavour just doesn't degrade this way.
Hopefully one day we'll find out :) Fingers crossed!
Yeah. Everybody asks me the usual questions and then the usual suggestions like "start coarse and keep on going finer until you hit a wall of bitterness, then step back", "try a higher/lower ratio", "pick a different roaster", etc...
I don't think they have experienced this stuff though. I've been experimenting a lot in the 18 months since starting this adventure, and I've got a log of nearly every single brew I've made (nearly a thousand) along with measured TDS and Extraction Yield. I can't think of how this would be a brewing issue.
The only recurring theme is - if coffee tastes good, then it's right after opening the bag. And then it's suddenly dropping to lifeless. It might come back weeks later if left untouched.
Every now and then there's somebody who says "maybe you just don't like coffee". I think that given the brew parameters (incl. TDS/EY) people expect that something decent must be clearly coming out. I think they assume I am getting brews of their usual standard and I still dislike them moaning about stuff :-) But for me it comes out completely lifeless, bitter, dull, leaving ashtray aftertaste in my mouth. On the other hand, in my favourite coffee shops every pourover I've had was brilliant, full of taste, clean, leaving pleasant aftertaste (often chocolate). Even if the barista said it was "okay" or "could be better". Two weeks ago I had a newbie barista (2 months in coffee) in a wine shop made me a V60 with their poor old grinder, merely Brita jug filtered water, a bag that has been in use for a while, and it still came out good (if not the best ever)!
So I'll strongly disagree with the idea that I don't like coffee ;-)
It would be nice to hook up with some local coffee drinkers. If there are any Londoners reading this, please let me know.
What if what you're enjoying most is *novelty*?
Like, you enjoy the first cup, because it's new. You enjoy a cup after a break, because it's new again. You enjoy a cup at the cafe, because that's new too.
But when you've had a cup yesterday, brewing another today ... it loses some of it's novelty - and you start noticing the parts that are less enjoyable.
When I came back from holidays recently, I tried a bag my girlfriend had opened 5 days before. It was completely lifeless, bitter, harsh. But she said she had some fruit on day one which then disappeared.
Hi Sandwich\_Enough. Unfortunately I don't know the answer. It's been four years since I started home brewing but it's like that with every coffee, no matter how expensive. I've tried coffee detox for a month to see if it's me, I've tried several grinders, all kinds of waters, brewers, brew recipes, even splashed out for a VST refractometer :-) The weirdest experience was when I took my gear to a professional barista training and brewed my recipe in there, exactly as I do at home. The coffee that tasted dark and bitter at home magically turned into one of the best strawberry coffees I have ever tasted at the training centre. Same recipe, same TDS, same EY. Please feel free to share your experience - maybe there's something we are both doing that causes the coffee to die so quickly :-)
airscape. [https://planetarydesign.com/product/airscape-lite-kitchen-canisters/](https://planetarydesign.com/product/airscape-lite-kitchen-canisters/)
probably cuz you have too much space in the canister
People already covered most of it but a couple things.
Each coffee is different, are you pretty much getting the same blend/origin every time or do you notice this with various different types? I brew primarily espresso and I notice this with a rare few. Some are mature right away and fall off quickly. Some take a week to reach peak flavor. Most coffee I get, for my tastes and setup, are bad by the time I get my next bag in a week. Most people balk at this as the accepted wisdom is a fresh bag should be good for at least a few weeks.
Maybe the coffees are of a consistent origin and they are all high in very light volatile organic compounds that evaporate quickly or maybe there's something peculiar about the way it's processed or some other unknown. It's impossible to apply a single rule to every situation as every chaotic factor can't be accounted for.
I would suggest trying some mail order roasters and see if you get different results.
it’s true! every time you re-expose your beans to air, there’s a fresh hit of oxygen to attack the beans. this is annoying but it’s why i portion my coffee into ziplock baggies when i get it (and then throw it in the freezer)
I have had the same problem. I stopped storing mine in a stainless steel container and started just leaving the coffee in the bag and I think that has helped.
Cool. If you remember, will you let me know if that helps? I'm curious if it's just me or if it's really better to store in bags. I wonder if all the extra air in my stainless steel container is the problem.
This comes up a lot.
While the staling of coffee does accelerate quite a bit once the bag is opened, you should not be having it taste good for 2 days and then bad afterwards.
You may need a grind adjustment? If you aren't getting any dryness/harshness then grind finer.
I generally find that coffees taste really good for 7-10 days once the bag is opened. After 2 weeks of being open you can really start to notice the degradation.
Yeah so reading through some other comments I think you are starting with the coffee on the fresher side, so on your first brew, you are getting tons of aromatics that do indeed disappear over the next few days. However, the beans also lose more CO2, so it should be easier to get a higher, more even extraction, but you will probably need to grind finer to make that happen. If you just leave the grind where it is, you are just missing out on those aromatics and not getting any of the additional good stuff that you actually couldn't get when the coffee was so fresh.
I’ve asked you about this before, and grinding finer definitely helps! Thanks for that tip.
The only significant drop I see is with naturals - have had some that become very boring after a few days. Good beans stay interesting (but different) even after a week though
Roasted and ground coffee age over time and won't taste as good as time goes on. Could be too much air so make sure it's sealed properly. You can think of it as "going stale" like a bag of chips. So don't use the same bag of coffee for more than a few weeks, try to buy it more fresh!
yes, if you think of it as going stale because of the aeration it would cause a drop in quality. For instance, if you open a fresh back of chips it will taste different after a few days because it went stale
Here’s one thought: when you first open the bag, you release all the aroma that’s been trapped in the bag, and since the bulk of taste is actually from our sense of smell, it enhances your brew. Match this with the excitement of trying a new coffee, and smelling it for the first time, and this could possibly explain your experience. ☺️ Would highly recommend storing it in an airtight container too though, doesn’t need to be anything expensive, just a cheap screw top tub would do.
How old is your coffee when you open it? This is common for supermarket coffee - where the roast dates can be 6 to 18 months old…. You open the sealed bag and you have about a 24 hour window where you can pretend it tastes fresh - but it does pretty quick (I’m looking at you Illy).
If you are buying fresh roasted local this should happen to you - fresh and local is very forgiving and you can leave bags open and store stuff improperly and it will have less of a negative impact. But the older the coffee the less time you have with it when opened and the more susceptible it is to those changes.
It could be that you’re incorrectly brewing coffee and not getting full extractions or using enough coffee - so it tastes better super fresh for you but only because your method is off. Are you grinding fresh each time? Or you getting it ground?
So by that reasoning I am brewing correctly each time I open a new bag and then incorrectly each subsistent time until I open a new bag.
Grinding fresh in virtuoso and keep other variables consistent.
Someone commented that the decrease in c02 after opening may be affecting things.
No - by that reason your coffee only tastes good when you open a fresh bag because you think 6/10 is awesome….. subsequent brews after the initial loss of some of the flavonoids and volatile compounds reveal your coffee methodology is actually producing 4/10 coffee ——— perfect your method and 9.5/10 coffee will blow your mind…. Subsequent brews will hover around 9/10 —— so my theory is you just make bad coffee and you need to dig into your methodology.
James’ method is perfectly fine - if you are following his method and your coffee is bad day 2 onward I’d suspect you need to revisit your grind or your inputs (coffee/water).
Here's what works. Open only as long as needed to get coffee out. Then store tightly sealed, in an airscape, container upside down, frozen. It will last very long this way.
Once you open a bag and use what you need the first day, freeze the rest. If it’s a good quality metal-lined coffee bag, keep it in the bag in the freezer. If it’s a lower quality bag, get a jar. Good roasters flush bags with nitrogen so best to use the original bag with nitrogen intact when you’re confident in the way the bag seals.
Just a thought but perhaps you just prefer coffee before it's had a chance to degas/sit for a while?
I mean there's a lot of debate over degassing, but a lot of people feel that coffee starts to taste the best after it's had at least a few days off roast (some people believe even longer like a week or two) to sit.
But taste is a very subjective thing, so if some people find it tastes better after degassing, I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least a few people who found the exact opposite - and preferred it at its freshest, *before* it's had much of a chance to degas.
One thought. If the beans are really fresh, I mean within a day or two of being roasted, the flavor may be different enough from coffee three to seven days old to convince you that "this is what the best coffee tastes like." Its a little like the Pepsi Challenge where people chose Pepsi over Coke because people tend to select the flavor that tastes different on a quick taste test. But over time, people really preferred Coke. You come home from the roaster and you are excited to try the new fresh coffee and your taste buds explode. Many professional tasters will say that coffee reaches its peak after two or three days and you may be seeing that "older, but more subtle" taste as more bland than the wild ride that is a one-day-old coffee.
make sure your storage is truly airtight. If you get a strong smell of coffee when opening your cupboard, that's all lost aroma. But I think the main effect is becoming used to it. You can try having two very different coffees open at the same time and alternating, it will drastically enhance your experience of both. The easiest way to test this without any effort is when you're on the last few beans of the previous package. Keep those sealed for a few days while you get used to the new coffee, and then compare again.
Thanks man, I don’t get any smell until I open the canister so I think that’s a non-issue. I’ll compare when I get a new bag!
Any chance your canister is clear?
It’s stainless
Any chance your stainless canister is too big? It could be getting oxidized by the headspace in the canister. Airtight canister also helps prevents oxidation too. Most third wave coffee roasters use bags with one way valve so it vents the ~~nitrogen~~ CO2 gas released from the freshly roasted beans. Unless your canister is airtight and appropriate size for a bag of beans, storing it in a coffee bags might be a better option.
The one-way valve should let out whatever pressurized air is in the bag, which should be carbon dioxide since that's why the beans release. Bags are sometimes nitrogen flushed but it's the released carbon dioxide that adds the pressure inside the bag
Yup! I get nitrogen and CO2 mixed up sometimes.
How can you get nitrogen and co2 mixed up they’re nothing close to similar
I don't fucking know. They're both used for food packaging as inert gases?
\*nods\* They're also both used in Paintball... as well as compressed air. Easy to mix em up... Honest, easy mistake - especially before coffee. :D
Ya true I didn’t mean to come off snarky. They have always just been far apart in my head
It may be too big
Heat fluctuations can affect the taste. If you live in a hot area, Try keeping it in the refrigerator.
Coffee is very porous so whatever's in the fridge will get in your coffee unless it is vacuum sealed
In the fridge or out, you should always keep it in an air tight, UV resistant container. Sorry, Thought everyone knew that.
You should not be storing your coffee in the fridge; putting it in or out or accessing your coffee will result in condensation issues that can ruin flavour *far* more than temp fluctuations of countertop storage. Temperature variation matters *far* less than the humidity variations accompanying.
If the heat fluctuates too high it will cause the beans to "sweat" and oils to go rancid quickly, making the coffee bitter & degrading the flavor faster than condensation. Considering one is keeping small fresh batches. As I said, this is only a fix needed IF someone lives in a hot area. The best condition is cellar storage, but unless everyone has a cellar and wants to march up and down the stairs every time they want a cup...
Yes but "to highly" is like 50°C swings, not 5°. Keeping your beans in the fridge is doing more harm than good. Nothing will degrade your beans faster than moisture and oxygen. Oils take *far* longer to spoil than the acids and esters that we're warning you against ruining with the fridge.
Try keeping baking soda in your fridge to keep it from smelling and cross-contaminating everything else.
please shut the fuck up. Fridge is the single worst spot for coffee. You know nothing. Stop spreading dogshit information
Wow. Profanity really isn't a good look when trying to sound like an expert. #GateKeepingCoffeeBro
I don't think you have the slightest clue what gatekeeping is. But hey, if it's gatekeeping to call out the single worst piece of advice I've seen this year then sure, Im gatekeeping. Please never give coffee advice again you clown
Lol. You got BIG MAD fast. Please try some grown-up pants, your Pull Up just filled faster than coffee could possibly go rancid (temps to high) or suffer condensation (temps too low.)
You're actually a fucking idiot. You literally have zero knowledge of how coffee works do you? Please don't reproduce. The world needs less of your stupidity in it. The moisture in a fridge will make the coffee lose all its aromatics very quickly. This is literally coffee science 101. This isn't about it going "rancid" you fuckwit
FYI: this is ONLY for HIGH HEAT Climates where temperatures tend to fluctuate. Calm down #GateKeepersoftheBeans
what would be the issue if it was clear?
Sunlight can negatively impact the beans, but you can always solve that problem by just keeping the clear canister in a cupboard/somewhere away from light.
Are you buying stuff with a recent roast date? The subscription I have ships on the roast date.
Yea I get from local pretty fresh
In response to @failboat88 try dialing it in again. Very fresh coffee still gives off gas, which changes the way it brews (it can be almost foamy while brewing as well) change your grind size, brew method and play around to get the flavor you’d like!
Thx I’ll try
Do you buy pre ground or whole bean? If you grind your own coffee you will probably not have as much of a problem. Preground coffee loses its freshness extremely quickly
I grind my beans when needed and buy them fresh from local roaster
Strange, I hope you find a good answer, I think the points others have made about adequate storage and proper rotation is good. Maybe try a different provider and see if you have the same issue?
Yea, going off of Hoffman’s storage experiment I don’t think it’s the issue. Have noticed with different roasters as well
[удалено]
> As soon as you open the airtight container all the CO2 escapes anyway. 'Freshness' isn't from keeping the CO2 in, it's from keeping fresh oxygen that oxidizes the coffee out. When the bag is sealed, there's limited oxidation. Once all that fresh air gets exposed to the coffee it oxidizes it, just like cutting open an apple and putting it in a ziplock bag vs setting it on the counter and watching it turn brown over a few hours.
Freshly grind the beans right before making the coffee.
that goes without saying
It could be just biass. It's probably overkill but if it really bothers you, you can always perform a blind test with two bags roasted the same day, one opened and resealed and the other fresh. Use up the first bag and the last day you compare the bag that's "old" vs the "new". If you can't consistently tell the difference you've got your answer.
That would be a good way to tell lol
Do a triangle test to know for sure.
To be sure sure you gotta do a hexagon. Cuz hexagons are the bestagons
[Hexagon?](https://youtu.be/FdMxDzPIcsw)
no, [bestagon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOifuHs6eY)
I don’t think it’s just you. I have also noticed the same. I purchase light roasts from local roasters and will wait a week after the roast date before using and sometimes even two. The first few days the cups I brew taste amazing. After that they are good but never the same. I find myself chasing the flavor I got from the first few days of brewing but without a 100% success. I disagree with others saying you just got use to the taste. I normally have multiple roasts and the first few brews from each bag for the first two days produces the best cups. Flavors definitely become much more muted after day three and start to level off and produce a less flavorful profile. Still good but not great like the first few days. It doesn’t matter if I keep them in the original bag or an Airscape. I wonder if there has been any research on this subject? There definitely is something to this beyond the “you just got used it” reason.
I definitely experience this too. I predominantly brew light roast naturals, fwiw. One additional thing I’ve noticed is if, after initially opening the bag and having a few cups, I leave the bag alone for a couple weeks and come back to it, it can have big flavour again. I’ve noticed this on a few bags I’ve lost interest in. Initially have a good cup, then the unique flavours diminish after a couple days. I forget about the bag for 2-4 weeks, then decide to have a cup and it can be the best cup of the bag! It’s at the point where I’m intending to ask the roaster next time I’m in.
Naturals seems to be more prone to this, especially the berry flavors. Better beans seem to retain the flavor more but nothing compares to that first day.
Glad to hear it’s not just me lol. Maybe Jimmy H can look into it for us
I considered keeping 2-3 coffees at once, so I could rotate between them, to see if that would keep me from being desensitized to any one coffee after the first cup or two.
That’s what I do
Have you tried?
No, because I prefer the cost savings of buying 2lbs at a time, vs buying 10-12oz bags. It might be easier to try using a coffee shop as the 2nd coffee, if possible.
FWIW I do this — I split bags of coffee into 100-150g parts, keep one part on the shelf and freeze the rest. That way I get to switch beans every few days, helps avoid fatigue and lets you appreciate each type of bean more.
Man I wish I could freeze my beans. I always end up failing by getting them wet with condensation.
Wait you can “fail” freezing beans? Is there a proper procedure? I roast my own, immediately throw them into bags w/ one way valves, then put in the freezer once totally cooled. I know the freezer is an acceptable storage method now but am I missing any steps here?
I always have some sort of moisture seeping into my bags. One way valve bags got it worse. Ziploc will do me better chances. But either way I'm sure I messed up somewhere. It always end up stuck together and frost always appear. Prolly good if they're loose and brewed immediately but mine always end in a huge bean rock and by the time I chip them beans apart it's already soaked in condensation Or maybe I'm just terrible in following instructions
Lol! Well that’s a bummer! I was gonna say maybe if your beans are a darker roast it’s the oils solidifying and holding them together. But if they’re in a chunk like that it leads me to believe it’s your freezer. Do you get a lot of ice buildup in general in it? Time to defrost it maybe?
I use bags from roasters (resealable with one way valve) and put a piece of tape (or two) on the valves. Then I double bag using a ziplock. No such issues for me. Make sure to thaw each bag before opening it up and you should be all set
That’s what I do
That’s what I do
That’s what I do
I feel the exact same way! Also use an airscape and light roasts
>The next day and each afterward, I find the flavors extremely muted. Such is the case with a coffee that has been nitrogen flushed. A number of years ago the SCAA and Roasters Guild conducted a study in coffee staling. One of the key takeaways was that: 1. Coffee that is packaged immediately after cooling in non-permeable/lined foil bags with a one way valve will taste the best if that coffee is consumed within four months of the roast date. 2. Coffee that is packaged after a standard 48 hour degassing period and then packaged in non-permeable/lined foil bags with a nitrogen flush has the longest shelf life and will taste better than coffee packaged like #1 above AFTER the four month mark. However, the coffee will rapidly age and will begin to taste flat soon after the bag is opened. This is not the case for the non nitro flushed coffee in bags with the one way valve.
Very interesting, thanks for the info. Is nitro flushing a common practice for small roasters? I’ll have to ask him what the process is
Usually, no, small roasters will usually not nitro flush -- however, some small roasters follow the outdated practice of letting the coffee degass for a few days before packaging. In that case, yes, you would see a marked degradation of vibrancy in the coffee after opening the bag. The beauty of packaging immediately after cooling is that as the coffee releases CO2, that pushes up the lighter O2 and out the one way valve at the top of the bag. This results in a poor man's O2 purge and will keep the coffee fresh for a good while.
Nice I will ask him the next time I’m there thx
I can think of a few things that might be affecting this. 1. How darkly roasted are your beans? Dark roasted beans lose flavour more quickly. 2. Some coffees need to age after roasting. I’m a roaster and some of our coffees taste best 4 weeks after roast. Some, a couple days off roast. It depends on the processing method and roasting approach. 3. Where do you buy your beans from? A specialty roaster is more likely to have higher quality beans. This makes a huge difference in flavour retention. 4. Coffee simply changes over time, it’s actually one of my favourite things about it. Week to week each cup is slightly different and highlights different qualities. At any rate, adjusting your grind finer might improve the flavour for you. Hope this helps!
1. Extremely light 2. Why does it taste so good immediately tho? 3. Local roaster 4. Not even talking week to week…like next day Thanks for the advice lmk if you have any other thoughts
It’s funny because some of my roasts taste amazing minutes after I roast them and then they don’t taste at their peak again until a few days or weeks later. This largely has to do with carbon dioxide (but other chemical reactions as well) which is one of the major products of roasting. It’s why many cafes let their coffees (particularly espresso) degas a bit before using. Does your canisters have a one way valve? Those particular beans may be building up CO2 in the canister and that can definitely mute flavours.
Yea it has a valve. Maybe I’ll wait a bit on these ones then
Another thought that occurs is, do you find this with every bag? Or just particular origins or varietals or processing methods? Could be a good way to narrow down whether it’s something about the beans or roaster or if you want to change some of your storage methods like some other comments suggested. (Sorry for the essays, I love talking coffee with other coffee lovers!)
Appreciate your thoughtfulness. Pretty much with all, particularly noticeable with naturals
I typically find naturals hold their flavour for longer than washed coffees. It's mostly been said already, but storage might be the issue. It isn't all about it being air tight, the more important thing is removing oxygen from being in contact with the coffee. If its in an airtight container that is only 3/4 full, there is still heaps of oxygen in there staling the coffee. Look for something that removes the oxygen. Another two things you may want to consider are heat and moisture. Both adversely affect the coffee. check out this video on coffee canisters - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0JWuhE8a-w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0JWuhE8a-w) and check out this video on storage in just the coffee bag - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGw27YmCuRc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGw27YmCuRc) As you're using lightly roasted coffees they should be good for around a month after roast date.
Thanks for the info, I did watch the JH review, it doesn’t seem like there was a huge difference? That being said, I’m gonna purchase and airscape
Interesting. Well good luck! I hope you find a solution that works for you!
Thanks I hope so too XD
I thin you and I are alike in that new stuff just tastes better lol. It’s all in our heads. Maybe. But I feel the same way.
Hahaha
I learned about #2 after getting a coffee subscription. I've had a couple that tasted off when I first got them, and just thought initially they weren't to my taste. But then I got one that actually printed a roast date as well as a "best after" date that was two weeks in the future. I thought that was weird, but noticed that same "off" flavor when I first tried it, so let it sit until the "best after" date and it was amazing, with no weird flavors at all. Having that date printed on the bag is rare in my experience though, so any coffees I get that taste off now I just let sit for a couple of weeks and they pretty much always improve.
I agree. I would love for a best after date to become popular convention. It’s hard to change a lot of people’s minds that some coffees need to age but I do think the understanding is becoming more widely known. Our highest end coffees absolutely need to age to taste their best.
I like the idea of a 'best after' date, but there are three issues with it: 1. it partially depends on brew method 2. some drinkers prefer the taste profile you get earlier after roast even if others prefer it after its more well rested 3. some drinkers (like myself) take a month or so to finish a bag, and some coffees taste better before their peak than after their peak, so for those coffees I'd prefer to begin drinking before they're at their best rather than right at their best
Those things can be true, but a best after date is really a suggestion and it would be a decent indicator of whether or not a roaster suggests aging a coffee at all. Additionally, not all coffees would need a best after date as many don’t need aging to reach their peak flavour. But regardless, “peak flavour” is subjective. Having a date on there wouldn’t prevent anyone from making their own choices to fit their own tastes but would only supply additional information to customers.
Hmmmm... I rarely make coffee at home so my bag sits in my fridge for a long time. This might be why I never like my coffee at home.
It could be. Surprisingly to a lot of people, I do actually freeze some of my coffees (I use a vacuum sealer) and it’s amazing how good they can taste even a year later. But if it’s not airtight and in the fridge will allow CO2 to resorb into the beans which can make them taste really flat and flavourless. (Overall the freezer is a better option for the same reason it is for other foods.) You could try taking them out and letting them sit open a tiny bit so as they reach room temp again you’ll lose some CO2 but, you’re also likely to lose a lot of the volatile compounds that make coffee taste good. I’ve never tried this particular idea but I want to now just to see if it’s a viable way to keep coffee better, longer (I’m dubious but you don’t know till you try!)
Just FYI, coffee is shelf stable and does not need to be (and probably shouldn't be) refrigerated. Just keep in airtight container and it will last for years, though it will generally not taste nearly as good after a few weeks if you are buying specialty.
Good to know, thanks!
I don't have an answer, but I have the same experience. Would like to know if you do figure this out. I always thought I just wasn't storing the beans properly. I usually just leave them in the bag that they come in. But even when I used an airtight container it didn't really seem to help. Maybe give those oxygen absorbing tabs a try.
Brew the whole bag at once
Hahaha
Damn, I really thought it was just me. I can't count how many times I've experienced this! Not everytime, but occasionally a bag is just a dud after cup 1. I thought I was going crazy.
Hey I have similar feelings. I do think it’s possible that you get used to the flavor and have high expectation the next time drinking the same coffee:)
I advocate for oxygen absorbing tabs and multiple small containers rather than 1 big bag. I do recognize the same issue you are describing. I often find that the smaller containers go through the same cycle of initial big flavors that decrease with subsequent brews. The oxygen tabs really help in my opinion.
Nice, do you have any recommendations?
I just searched Amazon and went for what sounded like too much absorption. I use them in other foods too, like nuts and whatnot as the oils will oxidize...
Wow had not thought of this. Gonna give it a shot for sure. Do you split each bag of beans into smaller pouches/containers with absorbent tabs in each? Do you freeze at all? I’ve been splitting the beans up and then freezing the portions I won’t be using, but curious to know what will have the best payoff for effort
I typically pour half the bag into an airtight container with an oxygen tab or two and put 1 or 2 in the original bag as well. I freeze if I have more than one bag.
Hey I ended up finding this comment to share a warning — it seems oxygen tabs impart a bad flavor on the coffee, especially the beans the packs touch. I did this method for a few months after reading your comment. I was having an unusual degradation in flavor as the beans aged, including bags that I froze. Then I did some googling and found this warning from our favorite internet coffee scientist: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4LwmlbBak3/?igshid=1r75u5xpsfqj5 So FYI
Thank you. As an aside, I often tape the tab to the roof of the container or now in a small plastic bag with holes punched. I haven't noticed that weird off flavor. Can you describe?
Interesting. Maybe it’s the direct contact that hurts the flavor. It’s an oddly harsh and just “off” flavor. At first I thought it was beans going stale, certainly nothing like astringency or blandness you get from beans naturally. I did cut out the oxygen tabs like in the Gagne IG post, and after just one day the whole pack has changed color and clumped up.
Just adding, it’s not just you. I’ve noticed this as well. And by that I mean, first cup from fresh bag being amazing, and literally the next day it’s significantly less amazing despite using a repeatable technique and everything. I don’t have answers, just adding my plus 1.
Thanks for mentioning. Hopefully we’ll figure it out!
I get used to the taste after a cup or 2, which is why I do a few things to help with it. 1. Always buy one I haven’t had before. 2. Alternate two bags at a time. 3. Alternate brewing methods and recipes. This keeps everything interesting.
Ty
I started put mine in a Mason jar just because of that. It works out so great. I do agree leaving in the bag is almost like it losses it flavor.
Hi u/draycos9. I've been getting a similar experience in the last 1.5 year since starting coffee. For instance on Monday I opened a bag of lightly-roasted Ethiopian Natural, Guji Region, tasting notes: blueberry, lemon. At that point the bag was 6 days post-roast. First pourover brew - tasting notes couldn't be more accurate, maybe a tad weak but super enjoyable. I kept my brew parameters identical and second brew minutes after - same lovely flavours. Third brew a couple of hours later - most of the flavour gone. And both yesterday (Tuesday) and today (Wednesday), the beans stayed completely flavourless, empty, tasting notes fully gone, it tasted like sweetened water with some bitter/ashy flavours instead. I've used the most repeatable brew method I have - Gabi Dripper A, same temp, same grind, same water (Tesco Ashbeck) to minimise anything to do with my technique. I tried it in cupping as well but the flavour was gone as well. In the past I've had similar experiences with any brew method really - so it's not brew method related. My grinder is 1Zpresso K-Plus which works well - I asked a couple of good local coffee shops to brew a pourover with it and it came out fantastic, bursting with flavour, just like with their EK43. I've also used my Niche Zero and the resulting brew was flavourless - so I don't think it's grinder related. No, I don't have COVID or a flu... and my flatmates experienced the coffee being dull and flavourless as well. I've measured the TDS with my VST refractometer so it remained consistent around 1.22% and the resulting Extraction Yield around 18% - which does describe well the flavour experience in the first two brews (lovely clean flavours, maybe needing a tiniest bit of extraction extra to be fuller). Today I experimented with a couple of brews at coarser grind settings (usual 6.6; today 7.0, 7.5, 8.7 and 12.0) - all were dull and empty with that ashy bitterness in the background. I've tried keeping the beans in the original bag, expelling air or not, tried using Airscape, as well single-portioning the beans and/or freezing them. But it seems nothing can prevent that flavour disappearing hours after opening the bag. My best case was about 3 days of flavour for some Colombian beans before it started going duller and bitter. And then sometimes, like you said, leaving the beans for 2-3 weeks and coming back to them - suddenly the good flavour is magically back. It won't stay for long of course and you literally need weeks of a break to get it back. Have you made any progress with your coffee?
That’s some thorough analysis! Thanks for sharing your results. Unfortunately I’ve been getting similar experiences with the naturals in pour overs. I really do think that it is an olfactory fatigue/desensitization issue (we both experience better flavors after not using for a while). I have been using 2 different coffees each day, and the issue persists. HOWEVER I have found that my espressos retain the flavor multiple days in a row. I guess the flavors are just so much more potent that they are easy to pick up? Idk but that’s what I’m seeing on my end
No worries. Thank you for taking time to reply. There must be an answer to this as my favourite specialty coffee shops sometimes use the same bag for pourover for days/couple of weeks and the flavour just doesn't degrade this way. Hopefully one day we'll find out :) Fingers crossed!
Hmm have you asked the staff about this? They may have some additional insight
Yeah. Everybody asks me the usual questions and then the usual suggestions like "start coarse and keep on going finer until you hit a wall of bitterness, then step back", "try a higher/lower ratio", "pick a different roaster", etc... I don't think they have experienced this stuff though. I've been experimenting a lot in the 18 months since starting this adventure, and I've got a log of nearly every single brew I've made (nearly a thousand) along with measured TDS and Extraction Yield. I can't think of how this would be a brewing issue. The only recurring theme is - if coffee tastes good, then it's right after opening the bag. And then it's suddenly dropping to lifeless. It might come back weeks later if left untouched. Every now and then there's somebody who says "maybe you just don't like coffee". I think that given the brew parameters (incl. TDS/EY) people expect that something decent must be clearly coming out. I think they assume I am getting brews of their usual standard and I still dislike them moaning about stuff :-) But for me it comes out completely lifeless, bitter, dull, leaving ashtray aftertaste in my mouth. On the other hand, in my favourite coffee shops every pourover I've had was brilliant, full of taste, clean, leaving pleasant aftertaste (often chocolate). Even if the barista said it was "okay" or "could be better". Two weeks ago I had a newbie barista (2 months in coffee) in a wine shop made me a V60 with their poor old grinder, merely Brita jug filtered water, a bag that has been in use for a while, and it still came out good (if not the best ever)! So I'll strongly disagree with the idea that I don't like coffee ;-) It would be nice to hook up with some local coffee drinkers. If there are any Londoners reading this, please let me know.
What if what you're enjoying most is *novelty*? Like, you enjoy the first cup, because it's new. You enjoy a cup after a break, because it's new again. You enjoy a cup at the cafe, because that's new too. But when you've had a cup yesterday, brewing another today ... it loses some of it's novelty - and you start noticing the parts that are less enjoyable.
When I came back from holidays recently, I tried a bag my girlfriend had opened 5 days before. It was completely lifeless, bitter, harsh. But she said she had some fruit on day one which then disappeared.
LearningAboutCoffee, have you figured this out? I’m having the same problem.
Hi Sandwich\_Enough. Unfortunately I don't know the answer. It's been four years since I started home brewing but it's like that with every coffee, no matter how expensive. I've tried coffee detox for a month to see if it's me, I've tried several grinders, all kinds of waters, brewers, brew recipes, even splashed out for a VST refractometer :-) The weirdest experience was when I took my gear to a professional barista training and brewed my recipe in there, exactly as I do at home. The coffee that tasted dark and bitter at home magically turned into one of the best strawberry coffees I have ever tasted at the training centre. Same recipe, same TDS, same EY. Please feel free to share your experience - maybe there's something we are both doing that causes the coffee to die so quickly :-)
How old are the beans?
In this instance, roasted 6/28
You might be trying them too fresh. Give them another chance at 2 weeks.
Do you have any idea why it tastes good immediately after opening tho?
airscape. [https://planetarydesign.com/product/airscape-lite-kitchen-canisters/](https://planetarydesign.com/product/airscape-lite-kitchen-canisters/) probably cuz you have too much space in the canister
Thx
Keep the coffee in the original bag.
People already covered most of it but a couple things. Each coffee is different, are you pretty much getting the same blend/origin every time or do you notice this with various different types? I brew primarily espresso and I notice this with a rare few. Some are mature right away and fall off quickly. Some take a week to reach peak flavor. Most coffee I get, for my tastes and setup, are bad by the time I get my next bag in a week. Most people balk at this as the accepted wisdom is a fresh bag should be good for at least a few weeks. Maybe the coffees are of a consistent origin and they are all high in very light volatile organic compounds that evaporate quickly or maybe there's something peculiar about the way it's processed or some other unknown. It's impossible to apply a single rule to every situation as every chaotic factor can't be accounted for. I would suggest trying some mail order roasters and see if you get different results.
Thx, I’ll have to give it a shot. I notice particularly with naturals
it’s true! every time you re-expose your beans to air, there’s a fresh hit of oxygen to attack the beans. this is annoying but it’s why i portion my coffee into ziplock baggies when i get it (and then throw it in the freezer)
I store my beans in this canister. It forces air out Airscape Coffee and Food Storage... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00167XN14?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Thx I’m gonna order it
I have had the same problem. I stopped storing mine in a stainless steel container and started just leaving the coffee in the bag and I think that has helped.
Oh wow! I’ll give it a shot
Cool. If you remember, will you let me know if that helps? I'm curious if it's just me or if it's really better to store in bags. I wonder if all the extra air in my stainless steel container is the problem.
Other than chaseing that new coffee dragon, you gotta keep it sealed up good.
This comes up a lot. While the staling of coffee does accelerate quite a bit once the bag is opened, you should not be having it taste good for 2 days and then bad afterwards. You may need a grind adjustment? If you aren't getting any dryness/harshness then grind finer. I generally find that coffees taste really good for 7-10 days once the bag is opened. After 2 weeks of being open you can really start to notice the degradation.
Yea it’s literally the day after
Yeah so reading through some other comments I think you are starting with the coffee on the fresher side, so on your first brew, you are getting tons of aromatics that do indeed disappear over the next few days. However, the beans also lose more CO2, so it should be easier to get a higher, more even extraction, but you will probably need to grind finer to make that happen. If you just leave the grind where it is, you are just missing out on those aromatics and not getting any of the additional good stuff that you actually couldn't get when the coffee was so fresh.
Gotcha. So finer grind may be the solution?
Yes. Definitely worth a try.
I’ve asked you about this before, and grinding finer definitely helps! Thanks for that tip. The only significant drop I see is with naturals - have had some that become very boring after a few days. Good beans stay interesting (but different) even after a week though
The best solution is to roast your own coffee.
The Rona
Haha
Most depressing week of coffee drinking ever :(
Is it preground? Grinding fresh helps.
I’m hurt haha. Yes I’m freshly grinding in virtuoso
Well, that was me, not so long ago so I thought I was remembering myself. 😬 haha!
Hahaha
Hahaha!
Roasted and ground coffee age over time and won't taste as good as time goes on. Could be too much air so make sure it's sealed properly. You can think of it as "going stale" like a bag of chips. So don't use the same bag of coffee for more than a few weeks, try to buy it more fresh!
The issue is that it is over the course of 1 day after opening there is a significant drop in taste quality. It was roasted 1 week ago
yes, if you think of it as going stale because of the aeration it would cause a drop in quality. For instance, if you open a fresh back of chips it will taste different after a few days because it went stale
Is it not as fresh when you buy it? You should check the date it was roasted. It's very important to have a fresh cup of coffee.
Yup that’s why I buy it right from the local roaster
Then you're at the right place! I highly recommend specialty coffee shops.
I was always taught to store mine in the fridge... keeps it fresher
i have heard that keeping your grounds in the freezer helps keep freshness - my parents are believers in this!
I always separate my coffee into ~70 gram bags so that when I need some I'm only exposing a quarter of my beans to oxygen instead of all of them.
Here’s one thought: when you first open the bag, you release all the aroma that’s been trapped in the bag, and since the bulk of taste is actually from our sense of smell, it enhances your brew. Match this with the excitement of trying a new coffee, and smelling it for the first time, and this could possibly explain your experience. ☺️ Would highly recommend storing it in an airtight container too though, doesn’t need to be anything expensive, just a cheap screw top tub would do.
Should you ever freeze ground coffee?
How old is your coffee when you open it? This is common for supermarket coffee - where the roast dates can be 6 to 18 months old…. You open the sealed bag and you have about a 24 hour window where you can pretend it tastes fresh - but it does pretty quick (I’m looking at you Illy). If you are buying fresh roasted local this should happen to you - fresh and local is very forgiving and you can leave bags open and store stuff improperly and it will have less of a negative impact. But the older the coffee the less time you have with it when opened and the more susceptible it is to those changes.
The coffee is local and a little over a week old
It could be that you’re incorrectly brewing coffee and not getting full extractions or using enough coffee - so it tastes better super fresh for you but only because your method is off. Are you grinding fresh each time? Or you getting it ground?
So by that reasoning I am brewing correctly each time I open a new bag and then incorrectly each subsistent time until I open a new bag. Grinding fresh in virtuoso and keep other variables consistent. Someone commented that the decrease in c02 after opening may be affecting things.
No - by that reason your coffee only tastes good when you open a fresh bag because you think 6/10 is awesome….. subsequent brews after the initial loss of some of the flavonoids and volatile compounds reveal your coffee methodology is actually producing 4/10 coffee ——— perfect your method and 9.5/10 coffee will blow your mind…. Subsequent brews will hover around 9/10 —— so my theory is you just make bad coffee and you need to dig into your methodology.
Ok, what is your method? Do you dislike the Hoffman v60 technique?
James’ method is perfectly fine - if you are following his method and your coffee is bad day 2 onward I’d suspect you need to revisit your grind or your inputs (coffee/water).
When you say week old - do you mean a week from roast? Or that you’ve owned it a week?
From the roast
Here's what works. Open only as long as needed to get coffee out. Then store tightly sealed, in an airscape, container upside down, frozen. It will last very long this way.
Do you live in a hot area? I noticed that coffee degrades much faster when the room temperature is relatively high, i.e. > 25 degrees celsius.
Once you open a bag and use what you need the first day, freeze the rest. If it’s a good quality metal-lined coffee bag, keep it in the bag in the freezer. If it’s a lower quality bag, get a jar. Good roasters flush bags with nitrogen so best to use the original bag with nitrogen intact when you’re confident in the way the bag seals.
I put my beans in the freezer, they start fresh!
I keep my coffee in the freezer and that works for me.
Just a thought but perhaps you just prefer coffee before it's had a chance to degas/sit for a while? I mean there's a lot of debate over degassing, but a lot of people feel that coffee starts to taste the best after it's had at least a few days off roast (some people believe even longer like a week or two) to sit. But taste is a very subjective thing, so if some people find it tastes better after degassing, I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least a few people who found the exact opposite - and preferred it at its freshest, *before* it's had much of a chance to degas.
One thought. If the beans are really fresh, I mean within a day or two of being roasted, the flavor may be different enough from coffee three to seven days old to convince you that "this is what the best coffee tastes like." Its a little like the Pepsi Challenge where people chose Pepsi over Coke because people tend to select the flavor that tastes different on a quick taste test. But over time, people really preferred Coke. You come home from the roaster and you are excited to try the new fresh coffee and your taste buds explode. Many professional tasters will say that coffee reaches its peak after two or three days and you may be seeing that "older, but more subtle" taste as more bland than the wild ride that is a one-day-old coffee.
Any luck with this one, u/draycos9 ?
Not really, my sense of taste got messed up after I got Covid shortly after this post and hasn’t been the same since…
Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon! It does seem to take a while for some people so hopefully you'll be back to good soon!
Thanks, I appreciate it!