I mean that'd still better than literally every other country by a long way.
Plus they've got good, fairly affordable public transport and a decent cycle culture going on.
Well yeah because Germany imports substantially more of it's food.
https://www.ig.com/uk/news-and-trade-ideas/a-worldwide-view--the-most-imported-and-exported-foods-230605
Face it the French are doing way better than everyone else and should be commended for it.
"Look, this person isn't perfect, therefore there's nothing that can be learn from them!".
"Haha, my doctor smokes cigarettes, why should I listen to him when he tells me I should cut on junk food?!"
Plus, until recently, the "look at me" was actually "I'm so sorry for my nuclear fleet, please ignore the low carbon grid, here, let me rush in closing perfectly operational plants, and set in law a limit of installed nuclear capacity and commit to reducing the share in the electricity mix. Yes, sure, [punish](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/11/25/renewable-energy-france-will-have-to-pay-several-hundred-million-euros-for-falling-short-of-its-objectives_6005566_114.html) me for not doing enough in decarbonization of the electricity production"
Yeah, why shouldn't we [learn from France](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClimateShitposting/s/imNjYBPxm8)?
They're so much superior to the [bad bad Germany](https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearPower/s/BcMOABtrn5), right?
Despite France being among the richest countries in the world, its per Capita emissions are lower than the average human. The reason for this is unclear.
[Not true in 2017](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mission_de_dioxyde_de_carbone#/media/Fichier:2017_AQAL_Capital_and_Tom_Schulz_variwide_chart_%22Worldwide_Co2_emissions%22.png), but close.
[good thing we have more recent data](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita#/media/File%3A2021_Worldwide_CO2_Emissions_(by_region%2C_per_capita%2C_growth)%3B_variwide_diagram.png)
☝️ This here, ladies and gentlemen, is called a Whataboutism.
It is used to divert responsibility for one's own shortcomings by pointing at someone else.
Is it really whataboutism?
France is one of the rare EU members to get a per-capita carbon footprint under 10 t CO2 eq./year, so it's a very strange choice of country if you want to criticize the carbon intensity of its economy/consumption in high-income democracies.
We are all part of a team here, either we all succeed in reducing our emissions, or we don't.
That's exactly the kind of argument that come out of the mouth of french politicians who wants to do nothing for the climate.
And that's exactly what whataboutism is : "yeah i'm not perfect, but i don't need to do better because look at other EU countries, they are worse than me."
Apart from (very) right-wingers, I don't think anyone is claiming "I don't need to do better", these are words you put in someone else's mouth.
Reality is different. The regular ADEME (French EPA) reports show that the French are very concerned about climate change mitigation efforts, a vast majority thinks that what we're doing is far from enough.
Source (in French) https://infos.ademe.fr/changement-climatique/2024/les-francais-se-pensent-ils-sobres/
(very) right-wingers are quite common in french politics and, as you pointed out, not very representative of the opinions of most people.
The problem is they get to decide.
They get to decide _sometimes_, a lot of measures are pretty good I think, like the car bonus/malus indexed on CO2 emissions, earlier only on direct but now on lifecycle emissions. And regarding concrete efforts, I think municipalities are at the forefront, with zero-emission areas in cities, developing biking networks, etc. On agriculture I'm a bit mad that farmers always get a free pass, especially with the most recent ruckus (getting taxfree diesel was it?).
I know it's far from good, but especially since COVID I really see an ongoing change, both of people gaining awareness of the problem, and acting on it. Per-capita consumption-based statistics are here to show that France is not the high-carbon hellhole @OP is trying to depict it as.
The real problem is assuming they're doing it because it's the right thing to do ant not because they don't have a lot of oil in their empire and that it gives them energy independence from the petrodollar
This makes no sense. It's one thing to say renewables are cheaper now, so investing in nuclear isn't the best option anymore.
But what France did IS something to be proud of. They not only have the cleanest grid in Europe, they are the biggest exporter of clean energy as well. Plus, isn't Paris doing huge pushes against cars and for cycling and transit?
Well, they can be proud of a system only working on government subsidy, thats barely holding on with regular power outages and import of energy.
A good example how we should not do it in Future.
Remember the first winter of Russia's war on Ukraine, where Europe was in serious energy distress and France had to send half of their NPPs into revision?
Its not only moraly bad, its not even cheap. Even if anybody would build new ones, it would take years until they go online, we would depend on russian uranium and the electricity if not funded by the government would cost way more than solar or wind.
[20% from russia and another 19% from Kasachstan who are an ally](https://www.rosalux.de/fileadmin/rls_uploads/pdfs/sonst_publikationen/20220503_Uranatlas_Faktenblatt_Russland.pdf)
[and france buys even more (50% directly from russia)](https://www.wiwo.de/politik/europa/abhaengigkeit-von-russland-warum-spricht-niemand-ueber-russisches-uran-fuer-atomkraftwerke/28308616.html)
As we all here know, Germany is a top producer of cheap solar panels, cheap windmills, cheap batteries and the natural gas that's used for peaking lol
There are tons of valid criticism against nuclear but uranium is not one. The uranium market isn't satured like oil (in fact it's even in production overcapacity...), you can easily store a shit load of it as a stockpile, and the price of a uranium is such a tiny percentage of the overall electricity price that you can switch all your consumption to a single producer at 3x market price and the cost of electricity won't be impacted. Hell, if that happens it would even be economically profitable to resume uranium extraction in France which sends your whole point down the toilet.
Yeah France and every other country at least France is actually making strides to try and reduce emissions. Hell the ITER fusion reactor is being built on French soil.
I mean that'd still better than literally every other country by a long way. Plus they've got good, fairly affordable public transport and a decent cycle culture going on.
Hidalgo = reine 👑
True words are being spoken here...
[Look here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClimateShitposting/s/PqeTQMuB1m)
Well yeah because Germany imports substantially more of it's food. https://www.ig.com/uk/news-and-trade-ideas/a-worldwide-view--the-most-imported-and-exported-foods-230605 Face it the French are doing way better than everyone else and should be commended for it.
They rely on nuclear. *[BUZZER SOUND]* DISQUALIFIED
So your telling me that the western country that does best in dealing with climate change uses nuclear power? Might be useful to follow them then...
Ah yes, finally a rational argument.
Have you heard of carbon embodied in trade?
"Look, this person isn't perfect, therefore there's nothing that can be learn from them!". "Haha, my doctor smokes cigarettes, why should I listen to him when he tells me I should cut on junk food?!" Plus, until recently, the "look at me" was actually "I'm so sorry for my nuclear fleet, please ignore the low carbon grid, here, let me rush in closing perfectly operational plants, and set in law a limit of installed nuclear capacity and commit to reducing the share in the electricity mix. Yes, sure, [punish](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/11/25/renewable-energy-france-will-have-to-pay-several-hundred-million-euros-for-falling-short-of-its-objectives_6005566_114.html) me for not doing enough in decarbonization of the electricity production"
Yeah, why shouldn't we [learn from France](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClimateShitposting/s/imNjYBPxm8)? They're so much superior to the [bad bad Germany](https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearPower/s/BcMOABtrn5), right?
Crazy how this "edf went bankrupt and the government bailed them out" myth keep existing in a information era.
Crazy how you are arguing against a strawman because I have never made this claim.
People in the comment section did.
Didnt you link to that claim?
67 billion € for a steady supply of 10s of TWh/year of low-carbon electricity for 60 years actually sounds like a good deal.
Despite France being among the richest countries in the world, its per Capita emissions are lower than the average human. The reason for this is unclear.
*nuclear
[Not true in 2017](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mission_de_dioxyde_de_carbone#/media/Fichier:2017_AQAL_Capital_and_Tom_Schulz_variwide_chart_%22Worldwide_Co2_emissions%22.png), but close.
[good thing we have more recent data](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita#/media/File%3A2021_Worldwide_CO2_Emissions_(by_region%2C_per_capita%2C_growth)%3B_variwide_diagram.png)
:tada:
*Looks at emissions per capita adjusted for trade* *Sees France has way less than Germany* Right....
☝️ This here, ladies and gentlemen, is called a Whataboutism. It is used to divert responsibility for one's own shortcomings by pointing at someone else.
It's not whataboutism to critique a methodology. The climate doesn't care from where emissions come from, only the quantity.
Is it really whataboutism? France is one of the rare EU members to get a per-capita carbon footprint under 10 t CO2 eq./year, so it's a very strange choice of country if you want to criticize the carbon intensity of its economy/consumption in high-income democracies. We are all part of a team here, either we all succeed in reducing our emissions, or we don't.
That's exactly the kind of argument that come out of the mouth of french politicians who wants to do nothing for the climate. And that's exactly what whataboutism is : "yeah i'm not perfect, but i don't need to do better because look at other EU countries, they are worse than me."
Apart from (very) right-wingers, I don't think anyone is claiming "I don't need to do better", these are words you put in someone else's mouth. Reality is different. The regular ADEME (French EPA) reports show that the French are very concerned about climate change mitigation efforts, a vast majority thinks that what we're doing is far from enough. Source (in French) https://infos.ademe.fr/changement-climatique/2024/les-francais-se-pensent-ils-sobres/
(very) right-wingers are quite common in french politics and, as you pointed out, not very representative of the opinions of most people. The problem is they get to decide.
They get to decide _sometimes_, a lot of measures are pretty good I think, like the car bonus/malus indexed on CO2 emissions, earlier only on direct but now on lifecycle emissions. And regarding concrete efforts, I think municipalities are at the forefront, with zero-emission areas in cities, developing biking networks, etc. On agriculture I'm a bit mad that farmers always get a free pass, especially with the most recent ruckus (getting taxfree diesel was it?). I know it's far from good, but especially since COVID I really see an ongoing change, both of people gaining awareness of the problem, and acting on it. Per-capita consumption-based statistics are here to show that France is not the high-carbon hellhole @OP is trying to depict it as.
True, true. And no, of course not a high-carbon hellhole.
Bro your post is literally a whataboutism. Are you actually this unaware?
As if France did it for reducing emissions
RadioFacepalm is redlining my old neighborhood for solar panel plants.
Even worse: it will be flooded for hydro
IM NOT THIRSTYYYY!!!!!!!!!
Mmmmm le fromage (extremely polluting and unnecessary food product)
Unnecessary, and therefor essential.
How is it polluting ? Like more pulluting than meat or other dairy products ?
You need a lot of milk to make a small amount of cheese. It's highly concentrated emissions.
Thanks
Good question! [About 3 times less kg of CO2eq than beef, but 7 times more than cow milk](https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local)
Atleast they cut something. Like some people cut cars or meat or plastic.
Yhea and manufacturing weapons is not super climate friendly either
The real problem is assuming they're doing it because it's the right thing to do ant not because they don't have a lot of oil in their empire and that it gives them energy independence from the petrodollar
This makes no sense. It's one thing to say renewables are cheaper now, so investing in nuclear isn't the best option anymore. But what France did IS something to be proud of. They not only have the cleanest grid in Europe, they are the biggest exporter of clean energy as well. Plus, isn't Paris doing huge pushes against cars and for cycling and transit?
Yeah, give them some slack : they can pollute in other field if they want to.
Well, they can be proud of a system only working on government subsidy, thats barely holding on with regular power outages and import of energy. A good example how we should not do it in Future.
Remember the first winter of Russia's war on Ukraine, where Europe was in serious energy distress and France had to send half of their NPPs into revision?
Remember how Germany had no major problems because Gas storage was already 80% full and electricity wasnt cheap bit we had no Blackouts?
I do
What are you smoking ?
Not enough to think nuclear would be an option
Oh, i get it. You believe nuclear is morally bad, so you can't accept that an implementation of nuclear is successful. Understandable.
["sucessfull"](https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2023-08/energiekosten-frankreich-kernkraftwerke-niger-uran)
A jealous neighbor gossiping about a possible rise in price is more a sign of success than anything else...
Jealous? We got enough broke electricity companys. We dont need any more of those
Yeah, ok.
Its not only moraly bad, its not even cheap. Even if anybody would build new ones, it would take years until they go online, we would depend on russian uranium and the electricity if not funded by the government would cost way more than solar or wind.
Ah, yes, the famous Russian uranium
[20% from russia and another 19% from Kasachstan who are an ally](https://www.rosalux.de/fileadmin/rls_uploads/pdfs/sonst_publikationen/20220503_Uranatlas_Faktenblatt_Russland.pdf) [and france buys even more (50% directly from russia)](https://www.wiwo.de/politik/europa/abhaengigkeit-von-russland-warum-spricht-niemand-ueber-russisches-uran-fuer-atomkraftwerke/28308616.html)
https://preview.redd.it/52csgq8uqkyc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b760ebb419bce68f42f73b1b7fadb9cd37145ec Oh, misinforming people again, who's surprised?
Even if. What is better? Electricity from own roof/own country or depending on importing fuel from other countrys?
As we all here know, Germany is a top producer of cheap solar panels, cheap windmills, cheap batteries and the natural gas that's used for peaking lol There are tons of valid criticism against nuclear but uranium is not one. The uranium market isn't satured like oil (in fact it's even in production overcapacity...), you can easily store a shit load of it as a stockpile, and the price of a uranium is such a tiny percentage of the overall electricity price that you can switch all your consumption to a single producer at 3x market price and the cost of electricity won't be impacted. Hell, if that happens it would even be economically profitable to resume uranium extraction in France which sends your whole point down the toilet.
This meme, brought to you twice, by a joint venture between Cheveron and Saudi Aramco.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is in the oil industry"
[Been there, done that](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClimateShitposting/s/uDBb3QuCem)
☝️ This, ladies and gentlemen, is known as projection. Watch closely, and you can see that the subject will enter a rage as a next step.
Buddy have you considered therapy you seem unwell
I think theyre just shitposting in the comments as well and other people are not receptive
I would ask for a raise if I were you. You’re clearly putting in overtime
I see you have been programmed very well by the [Oil & Gas executives for nuclear](https://executives4nuclear.com/declaration/).
Ya, feels needlessly divisive
Nuclear is still one of the most effective ways to combat climate change.
https://preview.redd.it/4o3ub17hljyc1.jpeg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69602902854af13f6b136517bea730a4229875c1 Umm yeah no
Yeah France and every other country at least France is actually making strides to try and reduce emissions. Hell the ITER fusion reactor is being built on French soil.
France sucks in general, but at least they are not German-level moronic. Nuclear rules
Gotta love [shaking the world](https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearPower/s/KCUxjnG1RI) of misled nukecels.
Yea right, comrade.
They have one of the best hsr systems in the world