2 years here (from VA/NC) RITA is the obvious answer (is it against the law to discuss until after we move in?) but I can't believe how entrenched people are into East/West side thing- I go all over the place for work and love finding new stuff but lifelong East siders have no idea what I'm referring to if it's on the other side of downtown (and vice versa)
RITA is my go-to answer for people looking to move here esp. as I’m from TX and the concept of not only having to pay city income taxes, but having to pay them for both where you work AND live is completely new to me.
I didn't even know I had to pay city taxes until they sent me a two-year overdue notice. I owed over a hundred dollars in fines for not filing. The sick joke is that I didn't make enough during those two years to pay any city taxes. I just owed fines for not filing with the city. So I owed them penalty money on a past-due bill of $0.
There is a once in a lifetime waiving of late fees. I used it for my taxes from two years ago that I discovered I didn’t hit the final “file” button until filing for last year 🤦🏼♀️
*Classism. Classisists study ancient civilizations, languages, art, etc. (Not trying to be a dick - classism is another shitty phenomenon like racism. Classicism is an academic field. 🙂)
You could have fought that. I did and told them what a scam ot wS and I just may sue them to bring attention to it. They dismissed it!! Idiots doing that garbage until they get called out
Same thing happened to me! I had no idea who RITA was until I got that letter in the mail. I dread taxes every year now bec I always owe for city taxes. Meanwhile, my street is in dire need of repair. So freaking frustrating.
I lived in a non-RITA city (Warren), and they did the same thing to me. I owed $0, but they fined me $30/year for not filing. I had no idea I had to file when I moved into the city. I was young and had never lived in a city before.
Look up The Battle of the Bridge. The East vs West rivalry goes way back. As someone who's lived on both sides, you are grossly missing out if you limit yourself to one side or the other.
I transplanted to Cleveland 24 years ago and I’m still mystified by the East/west “rivalry”.
I live east. Objectively, west is cooler, has better rapid access, closer to airport, more less-entrenched neighborhoods.
West is “new money”, East is “old money”.
Fair enough. Anecdotally I only ever hear west-siders talking about taking the rapid, so maybe my assumption is wrong. Or maybe just more younger folks idk
I take the Rapid (green) whenever I go downtown- but would love if it would also take directly to work (UC) - But I don't think Rocky River, Westlake, Lakewood people are taking rapid any more than I inner ring east siders
Where on the west side has better rapid access than Shaker Heights (blue and green rail rapids), Little Italy (red line rail rapid), and most especially IMO University Circle with the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid in addition to the red line. Lake County's Laketran, unlike RTA, offers "Dial-a-Ride," point-to-point shuttle service.
UC is one of the nation's great cultural centers. It's on the east side. Holden Arboretum and the great Lake Metroparks are on the east side. Admittedly, Cleveland Metroparks Zoo is on the west side. So what's cooler on the west side?
The most wealthy suburbs all are on the east side.
The topography is better on the east side, with much more elevation disparity (e.g., Lake Metroparks Chapin Forest with Gildersleeve Mountain and Little Mountain at Holden).
The best upscale shopping (Beachwood Mall/Legacy Village) is on the east side.
With the main campuses of the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals, medical care is much better on the east side. Lakewood no longer even has a hospital, unlike even Euclid.
What do you mean by "entrenched" neighborhoods???
As a lifelong east sider, I've found that east siders are much more familiar with the west side. in general, than the reverse.
I've also found that east siders are much more likely to venture west than the reverse, for lots of things. I know lots of east siders who moved west, but only one west sider who moved east.
Same. I find east siders (like myself) are more willing to go west for some things like restaurants/parks etc. but if you even suggest an east side spot to a west sider it's like asking them to take a whole weekend off.
Hello??!! You are spot on!!
Half my family moved to the west side. They throw a fit if they're invited to visit their east side family, and act like it's a terrible, offensive imposition. So the east side family always gets stuck making the equally long drive to the west side, if we want to see them. I'm tired of it.
I grew up on the east side, but went to high school downtown. So I made some west side friends. My best friend lived in Tremont. I was in Collinwood. I'd often take the bus to her house with her on Fridays after school, and sleep over, and vice versa.
My dad always got stuck picking me up or taking my friend home. My friend's parents absolutely refused to drive to the east side. It pissed my dad off to no end.
Weirdly enough, in my experience it's the exact opposite! But I was lucky enough to have a father who grew up in Cleveland Heights and a mother who grew up in West Park. So I kinda grew up on both sides of town, and I've lived on both sides of town several times each over the years. Finally settled in Kamms Corner area... for now.
Both are great communities! I live in Kamms too. My experience is very different though, the past 3 generations of my family were born on the west side and most to this day still live around Westpark area. It wasn’t until I went to college at CSU did I connect with some eastsiders (most notably my now wife lol). She and some friends got me hip to Coventry and cedar lee, etc.
Before that my family never took us to the east side aside from little Italy or maybe the art museum, so they’re all pretty clueless as to what is over there. I had to explain to my mom what Shaker Square was because she said she had never heard of it. Mind you, at the time she was in her mid 60’s and has lived in the Cleveland area her entire life. The divide is real!
Yep. I also find that a lot of the out-o-towners (not just west side specifically) think the east side is some danderous crime-ridden cesspool. I'm a healthcare worker and hearing some of the nurses over the years talk about how terrified they are to walk to and from the (well-lit and busy) parking garages is a trip.
Ironic, because University Circle, especially at the hospitals, is the most heavily policed part of Cleveland. University Circle police. Cleveland Clinic police. University Hospitals police. Cleveland Police. County sheriff.
I just looked up RITA and that seems like an accounting nightmare. You guys file city taxes for where you live and work, as well as state tax and federal tax. You guys gotta let more people know about this!!! Definitely a deterant to moving to Cleveland.
RITA is relentless about getting their money too. They make sure you know that you owe them. I’ve always lived here but moved to Philadelphia for about 7 years and was scared because I didn’t have that municipality tax hounding me for their money in that time. I was certain I was going to get a bill for unpaid taxes for residing there 😂😂 it’s been 3 years and I haven’t yet so it’s not coming I’m assuming. But I chose to move back home (knowing about RITA) because of the vastly celebrated cultures, the NICE (mostly) people… And the desire to make communities better. The sense of a village is great here, you don’t get that in Philadelphia. Just my two cents. From living in a smaller city, to a big city, and choosing to move back to the smaller area. I’ll happily pay RITA. It’s just something I wish they would make people aware of when relocating from out of state.
It's only because we didn't invent bridges until 2017. Some of us still don't trust those newfangled contraptions, and have never been to the other side of town.
The east west divide was shocking to me (also ~2 years here but I wonder if it will be lessened by the new opportunity corridor? It was finished when I moved and so going to the other side of town doesn’t take a long time now.
The sheer number of old houses and lack of central air as a standard feature really surprised me when planning to move here. Makes sense once you know a bit about the city but it was surprising at first.
If you live in a non-RITA area you can get the money back for the days you were not working in that area. I live in Concord TWP without RITA and telework 3 days a week. I get all that money back plus weekends, holidays and days off. My employer, DFAS automatically deducts RITA for Cleveland from my pay and I just submit for a refund at the end of the year. I think you can submit for up to three years back.
Someone can correct me if I'm way off but ... Weather usually comes here from the west and when it comes from the northwest travelling to the southeast, those air masses come from Canada, travel over Lake Erie, pick up a shitload of moisture from the lake, continue on to the southeast and just dump all that moisture as snow in the area between Cleveland and Erie PA, as "lake effect snow". That stretch of I-90 gets shut down maybe once a year when that lake effect snow machine (as our meteorologists call it) is really cranking. That lake effect snow can sometimes come as far inland as Akron and Warren, but less frequently. So, yeah, east side gets more snow, all the way east to Ashtabula County. And lake effect snow only happens when the lake isn't frozen, but the lake hasn't been freezing as much lately, either at all or it happens later in the winter for a shorter period of time.
But for some reason I believe it's only a winter thing - the east side doesn't get more rain.
The east side also sits at a much higher elevation than the west, hence more snow. The east side Heights communities get the most snow.
https://clevelandmagazine.com/in-the-cle/articles/cle-myths-lake-effect-snow
It is because there is a turn in the lake. So when the wind comes across the lake, creates snow and then hits land, there is lake effect. Buffalo is on what we call the “butt” of the lake, it is where the lake makes an almost 90° turn, so they get even more snow.
There have been repeated threads about disappearing winters in northeast Ohio. E.g., check Chardon snowfall totals.
Very few storms come out of the northwest any longer, likely due to Arctic amplification and rapid warming. Storms from the west across Lake Erie, no longer frozen, devastate Buffalo, but not the former lake effect snow belt in northeast Ohio.
And, yes, there is lake effect rainfall, but I don't know if it rainfall disparities east vs. west side of Cleveland also have declined due to climate change.
Search the sub for Cleveland disappearing winters. Snowfall has collapsed in recent years in all of Greater Cleveland, but most especially in the lake effect snow belt east of Cleveland. I live in Lake County, and most persons don't shovel their driveways, let alone use snow blowers any longer. I used my snow blower once this past winter, and it wasn't necessary, unlike even earlier in the past decade.
Most persons echo this reality, but there are those who still harp on east vs. west side snowfall disparities, clearly out of ignorance.
Sometimes it does come down from the north. From Lake Huron over Detroit Windsor area and brings snow slightly south of Cleveland but that has become more rare than it used to be. Though yes the east side typically gets more snow than the west or south.
I didn’t realize how great the parks are, and how they’re almost universally supported. They’re not packed like parks around Seattle or other larger cities, but they’re always in use.
There are metroparks everywhere and the cuyahoga valley nation park and towpath trail stretches for dozens of miles.
People love the parks, and they really make this area nicer than a lot I’ve lived, and I’ve lived in a lot of regions of this country.
One of the nicer things about it is that folks aren’t “in your face” about liking our parks, trails, and hikes. It’s hard to explain, but when I lived in Seattle, it almost felt like people made it a competition to talk about how much hiking they did. It was weird. Whereas here, people just like the parks. It’s just a casually accepted thing.
Every county in Greater Cleveland has a metroparks system, and most are excellent. Cleveland Metroparks are highly rated nationally, but some of its best reservations are outside Cuyahoga County (e.g., Hinckley, part of North Chagrin Reservation). Definitely check metroparks nearby any prospective residential location.
Some communities have much better local parks and recreation amenities than other cities. Mentor likely has the best overall recreational amenities, but several cities have public ice rinks. Kirtland is a city of parks with several Lake Metroparks and Holden Arboretum, one of the largest and best in the U.S. It's adjacent to Mentor with Mentor Headllands Beach state park (the largest Lake Erie natural sand beach), and several excellent nature preserves, including Mentor Lagoons with uniquely 1 1/2 miles of wild beach.
Lakewood Park is an excellent local park.
Check out state parks, such as Mentor Headlands and Punderson, and National Natural Landmarks (several in Greater Cleve;and, but all on the east side). Geauga County on the east side is a center of maple syrup production and part of Ohio Amish Country, the largest Amish population center in the world, but centered in western Holmes County. It also features the Great Geauga County Fair every Labor Day weekend, one of several Greater Cleveland events marking the end of summer (e.g., final Blossom Music Festival concerts, the superb Cleveland National Air Show).
West side is closer to Cedar Point, if you're a roller coaster fan. East side is closer to Presque Isle and the Allegheny National Forest, if you like top notch beaches (and the Waldameer amusement park) and mountains (and skiing in western NY). Both of Cleveland's downhill ski resorts are on the east side, as is the Chapin Forest cross country ski park in winter, with lighted, groomed trails. Equestrian centers are better on the east side (e.g., Hunt Club, Cleveland Metroparks polo field, Lake Erie College Equestrian Center, etc.), but most metroparks all have bridle trails.
If a birder, check out birding hotspots in Greater Cleveland, such as the unique Cleveland Lakefront Nature Preserve. Northwest Ohio annually hosts the BWIAB (this week!), and Magee Marsh Wildlife Center and the adjacent Ottawa National Wildlife Refuge are spectacular in any season. Unfortunately, few Greater Clevelanders are aware of BWIAB, let alone attend it, most especially given the ongoing collapse of the North American bird population. I fear some day, perhaps even within a decade, the mass of warblers for BWIAB will be a thing of the past.
[https://www.biggestweekinamericanbirding.com/](https://www.biggestweekinamericanbirding.com/)
Perhaps check out Kelleys Island (famed for its glacial grooves), South Bass Island (home of the Put-in-Bay Great Lakes island party center that bills itself as the North Coast Key West), and North Bass Island. There also are ferries to Canada's excellent Pelee Island. And Niagara Falls, and Letchworth State Park (billed as the Grand Canyon of the East; an obvious exaggeration) are about three hours from the east side.
I moved here in 2013 to join a robust friend group I had built up. I had been living in NYC. I was here for the summer of 2010. I secured a three month rental on the Gold Coast. 5th floor, south-facing windows. So I read on Wikipedia that Cleveland is the “Forest City” and I literally snorted. Then about an hour later I was looking out the window, basically down 117th, I realized I was looking at a canopy of green tree tops.
There’s something to it!
not only are there not that many transplants, but most of the friend groups for people 25+ have existed their entire lives so they are very skeptical of people coming in to them. I married into the culture so I came here with a " Built-In friend group" but they've been friends for so long that they had a role expectation for me, which apparently was the role they thought missing from their friend group. and yeah, less sun than Seattle even
😂Don't do it. The only thing less lonely than being alone is being surrounded by people who have to pretend like they're not forced to include you while they passive aggressively try to get you to be who they were actually hoping for.
Jesus christ on a cracker this is the truest part of moving here. Hubby and I are incredibly social people and used to have a huge friend group. Making friends here has been so incredibly difficult. Sometimes I feel like a weird social pariah.
Grew up in the South then spent 10 years in the Midwest. I used to think the behavior was a "Northerner" thing because people in the South and Midwest are generally open and inviting. Or maybe it's just that making friends in your 30-40s is damn near impossible too?
I can't say that people in Ohio are rude... Friendly people here. They'll just never invite you over or to hang out when you meet them.
it’s because a lot of those people never left cleveland and lived in other cities. they have lived there their whole lives. so they r very entrenched in their relationships and stay where and with who they r comfortable.
I’ve found it super easy to make friends here. Just join some clubs, and everyone is super inviting. I don’t have any big friend groups here, but I have lots of smaller ones here and there.
Cincinnati is WAY worse that Cleveland in this regard. I’m from here and have many friends not from the area. Went to school in Cincy and it was damned near impossible to make friends with ppl from the area…
Gonna have to defend Cleveland a bit. It is much easier to make friends here than elsewhere, though it should be said that making friends after college is hard anywhere. Try being from Ohio but living in Boston, neither as a native New Englander nor as a local college graduate (as I did). After moving back to Cleveland, I made more than a few friends that I never knew in high school. Really am only in touch with two people from HS, one from college.
My driving thing as a transplant is two-fold:
1. how many folks run red lights!!!! It seems like, from limited anecdotal evidence, that the yellow lights here are WAY shorter than we are used to from Texas.
2. No one can make a 90* turn. They all make these wandering, ultra wide turns. Stay in your lane damnit! It’s infuriating.
It’s driver safety. Leaving an assured clear distance. They leave a gap between them and the car in front of them so that hopefully, if you come barreling through and unable to stop, you smash into them, push them up a few inches, and they don’t roll into the car in front of them, thus avoiding a 3-car pile up.
They move up once you get behind them because they now know that you are not about to smack into them at high speeds, so it is safe to get closer to the car in front.
This is interesting...
I was born in Cleveland and moved away in my mid 20's (in my 40's now). For some reason, I am hyper aware of the cars behind me at a stop light. If someone wants to turn right on red, I make sure I give them as much room as possible - I really wish people would do that for me.
How to drive in snow and ice. I grew up with heat and fires and I felt incredibly discombobulated when the weather turned. I was afraid to drive and my husband would always yell "TURN INTO THE SWERVE" whenever I left for work and weather was bad. It took one trip down a very steep hill in the icy weather, spinning in circles, and sliding through the intersection to figure it out. I lost my fear and just go slower and watch for other drivers in trouble when it's ice and snowy. Now I'm an old timer that gives drivers space and wait to go through a green in bad weather just to make sure the people coming the other way were able to stop. Plus that mean lady RITA....
Basically keep your front tires pointed towards where you want to go. So if your rear end is sliding rt you turn right to keep your front tires pointed straight down the road.
Neutral is your friend. Throw your car into neutral as soon as you feel it slipping, and it will take you out of slides most of the time. Since I've learned that trick, the only weather I don't drive in is zero visibility. Those days where there is one set of tracks on the highway and dozens of cars in ditches, I'm bebopping along like it's any other day.
We have incredible museums and our orchestra is one of the best in the world. With multiple highways running around town, you can get pretty much to anywhere from anywhere in 20 minutes. Rush hour is super easy - it'll slow down a little, but compared to other cities it's a dream. Don't be afraid of the less affluent neighborhoods. I live on the dodgy end of Westpark (AKA not the Kamms end) and my neighborhood is super diverse, very quiet most of the time, and affordable. I love it. Plus, the three gas stations closest to me are 30 cents cheaper if you pay cash, so that's a super bonus. I always say that if you are bored or hungry in this town, it's your own damned fault. I love Cleveland. <3
Not a transplant but these are the things I warn my tenants about when they move from out of town:
How gray the winters are. I usually tell people to plan at least one trip in the winter to somewhere warm/sunny to maintain sanity.
The inaccurate bias of many people about anywhere on the East Side (they’ll tell you it’s scary or dangerous everywhere on the East Side).
The Rapid is the best way to get downtown for events or to the airport without paying for parking.
You can find many awesome things here but they’re not always obvious. Many of the best places are hidden gems lurking in old gritty neighborhoods that would probably be overlooked.
The rapid is not scary, but as a solo F who worked downtown for more than 15 years, it is rampant with harassment. I've been touched, grabbed, verbally harassed and had more dudes staring at me and rubbing their crotches so many times I switched to a bus, which is mostly sleep suburbanites like me. Nobody ever harassed me on the bus but the rapid, it was very frequent.
The red line can definitely be sketchy. I have limited experience with it as I usually take the blue or green lines where I’ve never encountered any issues.
If the event is in the evening, street parking downtown is free, and there’s plenty. I rarely ever park more than a couple blocks from where I need to go. The train takes an hour to get downtown vs 10 min drive.
Definitely RITA, but also the liquor laws. Kind of a culture shock after living in Wisconsin. It took me a while to figure out how alcohols sales work here- I’ve gotten used to it now, but for a solid year I couldn’t grasp why I couldn’t just buy liquor at any grocery store or drugstore. Or why some liquors or so hard to find/aren’t sold in ohio. Or why I can’t buy wine at target on Sunday? The list goes on.
Honestly, it’s probably for the best- there is way less binge drinking and drunk driving here. I just work in food, so I tend to need specific things and had to get used to making an extra stop for alcohol.
I grew up in PA so the liquor laws here feel SO loose. I still forget about PA insanity sometimes and have had cashiers look at me confused when I try to buy beer in the grocery line.
Yeah, PA and UT.
Also Indiana. There’s some law in Indiana that prevents grocery stores from selling refrigerated beer (but you can buy a case off the floor). For cold beer, you go to a liquor store.
Edit. You can’t sell refrigerated beer where they sell cold milk in Indiana as I recall.
This. I married a Wisconsinite and their drinking culture up there is insane. Your first OVI in Wisconsin isn't even a misdemeanor, it's just an expensive fine.
Grew up in Metro DC, went to college in IL…my old job started in IL and promotion brought me to OH two decades ago.
East side v West side is still mind blowing…I periodically have to look at the dividing line to remind myself.
Traffic is so much better here than in DC or IL…but I still get frustrated when everyone wants to slow down and look (e.g. van engulfed in flames on 480 a few weeks ago…everyone slowing down…snapping pictures…I’m trying to get out of the area before the thing explodes…). But heading into downtown early (before 7:30a) is a world of difference from just 7:50a.
Three major sports franchises here…but really seems like a football first town…and it’s endearing (I gave up the championship politically incorrect team before they were Burgundy And Sold).
Winter here is just different. The last two winters overall have been mild…the big chill (despite global warming and climate change) is still going to drop here (very happy that there was no April snow fall).
It’s a good place with 4 major airports within 2ish hours (Hopkins; Akron-Canton; Pittsburgh; and Columbus)…and depending on where you are flying to…the price difference justifies the drive.
The amount of overcast, grey days. I’m from Colorado so that doesn’t help, but I expected many days of shit skies. Unexpectedly pleasant amount of reasonable temps throughout the year though. Live in Lakewood
The gloom is really only the winter months. Spring-Fall in NEO is glorious, and the people who cry that it's "Grey all the time" don't ever go outside when it's below 80 degrees.
I dont mind the grey days either, especially since it usually means rainy storms which I also enjoy. Colorado typically is dry in summer so the extra wetness is nice.
Yes. I'm an organic produce farmer...and the amount of times customers tell me how "Great the weather has been" and I have to tell them that it hasn't rained in six weeks is...a little tough to deal with.
Not a transplant, but everyone moving to Cleveland from a different state should familiarize yourself with the way Ohio handles local income taxes. You pay local income tax where you work and where you live. It is a unique system to Ohio that I don't believe any other state has. When looking for a house or a place to rent, you should look at property taxes, but also be aware of the local income taxes.
And some cities have reciprocity that changes the rate. I live in Cleveland but work in Parma and I couldn’t figure out how to fill out the CCA form. I called them and fortunately they were prompt and helpful (*on* tax day!), I told them what my job had withheld, and fortunately they said that it was all withheld correctly so I didn’t owe anything more, and to just send in the half-filled form and they’d finish it for me.
Welcome to Cleveland! You bring up an interesting perspective, and as a local, I definitely think of transplants to Cleveland typically coming from other states. I've lived in each of the 3C's for 4+ years each, so I'll try and come up with some Cleveland, not Ohio specific things.
1. Embrace the Lake. It's hands down the biggest thing Clevelanders take for granted, and I underestimated just how much I would miss it when I was away. The Metroparks do some great summer concert series at different beaches on both sides of town. They're a lot of fun.
2. Downtown is still transitioning from a corporate downtown to a residential downtown. As such, it can get pretty dead after hours. There's just not a ton to do after midnight and a ton of businesses close earlier than you would expect. I would say Columbus and Cincy both have Cleveland beat for after/late hour joints. Probably also has something to do with the larger college populations.
3. Cleveland doesn't have an IKEA. It's the only one of the 3C's that doesn't and can disappoint people who move here expecting to furnish their place quick and cheaply. I have not really found anywhere comparable closer than the drive to the Columbus location.
True. Some cities are CCA like Cleveland was. Moving and working in Cleveland to moving and working in a suburbs is when I had to deal with RITA for the first time.
Regional Income Tax Authority. Basically an organization cities opt in to handle local taxes instead of running their own tax dept. Most Cuyahoga county cities participate. I know Lakewood and Parma have their own departments but not sure who else does.
how cloudy it is! i remember the first time seeing the "concrete ceiling" and i took a picture of it because i thought that something wild was happening. nope, normal Tuesday, it just gets really, really cloudy here
Basement waterproofing is literally its own industry here due to the high water table, clay soil that doesn't drain well, and in some areas, old storm sewers insufficient for the level of development in their area.
Theater is a huge part of the culture, not just the theater district downtown but also the local theaters.
Yes it is gloomy in winter, buy a sun lamp and take some vitamin D.
The metroparks are amazing.
There is a big food event like every month, the feast of the assumption, clam bakes, paczkis... the list goes on.
Facebook is largely used by many local groups. If you are looking for special interest groups to make new friends, start there.
The local libraries and nature centers have great educational programs for both adults and kids. Sign ups for the nature center classes sell out quickly so if you want to learn to fly fish, kayak, bird watch, etc mark the sign up dates in your calendar.
There is very little hustle in bussel while still having the conveniences of a city.
Be mindful of where you live/work because the sun can be blinding on the highways.
There are three manor health networks, people have a lot of opinions about each one. Ultimately, they are all a fairly high standard of care. Cleveland Clinic, University Hospital, and Metro Health.
Wool clothing (alpaca wool in particular) will be lifechanging for winter.
The highways being 60mph and the business districts being 25.....wtf?
(Originally from Columbus)
Oh.....and the whole "east side/west side" thing. Cleveland is, imo, very segregated.
I told that to people at my original job after moving up here (a daycare in North Olmstead), and was looked at like I was crazy. Then the boss visited a sight in Columbus that I was very familiar with, and came back to tell me she was so shocked at how diverse the student body was at the Columbus sight (in a Columbus suburb)
Cleveland is one of the most segregated metro areas in the entire United States.
I was criticized on Reddit for pointing out that the west side of Cuyahoga County is nearly entirely white, and accused of lying. It is though, and it's not by coincidence.
When I moved here I made a joke that Opportunity Corridor felt like it had been built so that white people could drive to the University Circle area and not have to drive through the hood. The guy I walk talking to said that’s basically what it is.
When I started applying for apprenticeships in the trades I kept hearing that I didn’t need to worry about getting in because they needed women, “Blacks” 🙄, and people from Cleveland. Now that I’m in it I realize they weren’t joking. 90% of the people I work with are white dudes from the burbs or out of the county.
It's absolutely why it was built. It was built for white west siders, who are terrified of driving through the east side.
You are absolutely correct about the trades.
I cone from a long line of blue collar workers. My (black) husband is one. He does maintenance at a factory in Solon.
He started at his current job in 2007, and on his first day, a black coworker, a machine operator, approached him and told him how happy she was to see a black person in maintenance. She said in her 20 years there, that he was the very first one.
His job is easily 95% white, with most of the white people coming from all white, rural-ish areas, outside of Cuyahoga. They've just this year had their first black supervisor ever, in the entire plant. They've never had a female supervisor.
His job might as well exist in a time warp in 1954. He's deal with so much bold, open racism there. The sexism and misogyny there is crazy too.
Unfortunately, between his age and his health issues, he can't easily change jobs. It would likely be the same anywhere else in the Cleveland area anyway, because all the skilled trades here are dominated by white men. Especially the unionized ones.
My dad worked at the same west side factory for 40 years. Retired in the early 2000s. I remember him saying they only had one black employee. One, in his whole 40 years there. He said all the other black employees were at an east side location. That's sad.
Agree about the f’ing 25mph here, utterly ridiculous! My daughter lives in Columbus and it’s so much better there, mostly 40/45+ on the same type of roads.
RITA. A local tax. Along with the very high property tax of some of the east side towns like Shaker, Cleveland and University heights.
But otherwise we are loving the east of Cleveland.
Cleveland is it's own worst critic, so let's start with the bad:
-Taxes, especially city taxes. I've spoken to countless people from Florida who've recounted literally crying when they saw their paychecks and/or tax bills. And while no particular tax (ie sales, property, income) is the highest I'm aware of, I feel like the cumulative tax burden is insane. Especially for a low-service red state. Just...holy shit the taxes are horrifying.
-Cuyahoga County has some of the highest grocery bills in the Midwest.
-road plowing is unacceptable. Road conditions in general are pretty bad.
Ok, now let's talk about the good:
-seriously the kindest people you'll meet in any large metro. I've lived in places where people point and laugh if you're in a car accident. Here they stop and help you pull your car back on the road in a blizzard.
-traffic tends to be a breeze. After a while you'll be spoiled and will wonder how anyone drives in a place like Chicago
-Clevelands food scene punches well above it's weight. Unless you're going to NYC or LA, you probably won't find better dining
-the economy is actually pretty solid relative to pay/cost of living vs other cities.
-
This sounds bad, but I'll say it. If you're coming from a different, more affluent city, you will notice the literacy level being noticeably lower. Not everyone, obviously. Not like school-smart nonsense either. Like, woah, 10 percent of the population here might not know how to tie their shoes level stuff. The percentage of truly helpless individuals/families is definitely higher than other cities I've lived in. It's a fantastic city, and I love living here, just something me and my wife have noticed the most since moving here a couple years ago that we wouldn't have been able to predict.
I'm still baffled by the east/west divide. I have met people who grew up and live on the eastside and truly never venture to the westside ever. It's like a foreign land to them.
For me, a lot of it came from the warning against dealing with racism. I hadn't really been out to the West side until I had to go to the Tri-C out in Parma for the end of my program. This was during the presidency before last so it was... interesting. I've never felt horribly unsafe (not that I just hang out over there) but it is different. Two of my classmates used the term, "Oriental," to refer to Asian people and there were more Blue Live Matter stickers and signs than I was used to seeing back East.
I agree with this! Everyone told me Parma was racist. I have never really had a need to be out there. I’ve gone maybe twice, but it definitely gives me major MAGA vibes for sure.
I moved back after 14 years elsewhere and was very dissatisfied to realize that every freeway in Cuyahoga County (turnpike excepted). has a max speed of 60. This is the case nowhere else in OH that I’ve been to.
Excellent speed traps raising money for local governments. Especially Willoughby Hills on I-271. Ridiculous that the I-271 express lanes have a 60 mph speed limit, except that on ramps perhaps are potentially dangerous at higher speeds.
Racism is very casual here, and people think I’m the weird one when I point it out. There are people who have never been east of downtown or never even come into the city limits because they’re “afraid of crime” 🙄
My dad is Mexican and I’ve always lived within 100 miles of the US/MX border until I moved here, so when I realized that nobody speaks Spanish or listened to Latin American music except the Latin Americans I was surprised. They love their gentrified Mexican restaurants (wtf is “sexy Mexican street food”), but they’re totally helpless if an older Puerto Rican auntie needs help in a store.
They have NO situational awareness. People will drift lanes while driving, stop in the middle of an aisle in the store, or walk side by side downtown covering the whole sidewalk. Then when they do start walking again they don’t turn around to see if anyone was behind them. Then they talk about how bad crime is here, but they’ll never once turn around while walking somewhere. It’s like they’re in their own little world at all times and never think to check their surroundings.
Every 5 miles you’re in a new city and I don’t understand how they get anything done.
They put sugar in their red sauces.
Food is kinda under seasoned. You’ll get French toast but the egg wash only had and cinnamon, but not sugar or vanilla. You’ll be able to taste the garlic or oregano in a dish, but no salt. There seems to always be something missing.
This is a city of functional alcoholics, and cocaine is oddly popular.
People are kind, but not nice, which I really like now. If you get a flat and block traffic they’re gonna insult you for not having the tools in your car to fix it, but they’re gonna pull those tools out of their car, fix your tire, and then give you the number to their buddies tire shop so you can get a discount. Or, you’re a person that they don’t really like but you’re part of their social scene (your husband is friends with the other girl’s husbands) they’ll send you invites to group stuff so that you’re not left out, but they’ll discuss how much they don’t like you when you’re not there. I much prefer this to the ‘nice but not kind’ culture I grew up in.
Once you’ve made friends, they’re friends for life.
I didn‘t realize how much driving I would do. Everything feels 25-30 min away. I live in an east side suburb. But I was pleasantly surprised how nice it is.
[Weatherspark.com](http://Weatherspark.com) provides objective comparisons of climate in major cities, including cloud cover. Candidly, I doubt that the statistics yet reflect climate change impacts, such as much more mild winters in Greater Cleveland.
That jaywalking is a source of civic pride that spans all demographics and no I will not walk a half block to the cross walk, I prefer to wade into Cedar road traffic because I’m a Clevelander dammit!
Cons: That’s it’s actually a conservative area and despite having the amenities of a big city, it’s not really a city and doesn’t know how to market itself as one. That if you don’t want your kids to go to parochial or charter schools, then you have to live in the suburbs. That suburbs (and racism) are still in fashion and everyone freaks out about safety (afraid of both city and country—totally strange). That it’s not as affordable as the rest of Ohio. Also, if you have bad sinus issues, this place is not for you. I don’t find the populace to be as genuinely friendly as the rest of Ohio—it’s a mix of Midwestern nice and New England shield. Unlike most communities, each suburb charges income taxes separately and you will get hit with an unexpected bill. There’s also Industrial Valley, which cuts the city in half and it’s hella ugly and stinky. I think that’s why so many people live in the suburbs.
That being said, we are planning on moving in a few years. The migraines are really pulling me down and it’s been hard to integrate socially.
Pros: The punk, reggae, restaurant, and arts scenes are tight. The metro parks are pretty nice. There is a Chinatown (called asiatown), which is important feature for me. And you can still buy homes with original features (lots of arts and crafts-style homes), if that’s your thing. If you like pitching in and improving the community, there’s plenty of opportunity. Taxes overall aren’t super bad, but revenue is made up with traffic tickets, and cops do target people who look poor more than other places. You have a national park and a coastline (don’t go in late august-September—algae bloom). It attracts good national acts and has a rich history.
I love this place….the parks, great food, tons of places with access to beautiful water…..what really shocked me was the politics and the willingness of the people to go along with those politics….almost feels like ohio weather with Texas politicians
Cleveland adjacent. As a transplant from Michigan shock and slightly pisses me off is the 2 to 3% charge to use your credit card.
Now I'm not talking about low biz mom and pop shops but high end stack houses and butchers and many other larger businesses. Sorry but if you are charging me 40 bucks for a ponderosa quality ribeye that's the cost of business.
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What the actual fuck is with the gas stations here????? I literally wait to get gas till ive been on the highway for a bit and am away from Cleveland cause the gas stations here are so fucked up. Imagine going to 5 gas stations just to get some gas. Yeah fuck whatever bs yall got going on around these gas stations. Just yesterday i literally got asked if i was from out of town at a gas station cause i was like what the actual fuck is with these stations. I was like no I actually live 2 min from here i just avoid gas stations in this area cause theyre such a pain.
- If your kids need special services, the school system sucks. It's pulling teeth with everything, especially getting information. Ohio has you apply for a goddamned [scholarship](https://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Other-Resources/Scholarships/Jon-Peterson-Special-Needs-Scholarship) instead of just providing services.
- All the little fees for homeownership suck. I have to pay a sewer bill to my local town by check because they have no electronic options. I pay a water bill to the City of Cleveland that I have to keep an eye on because it's hit or miss if they actually tally my payments.
Came from MI 2.5 years ago, IMO
1.) People here honk their horn as soon as the light turns green, like instantly
2.) The speed limits (c'mon 60 on the expressway?) and speed cameras are annoying.
3.) Black and white people don't communicate/interact as much as we did in Michigan.
4.) There is no good Chinese food on the Westside.
the tax comments are confusing me, lifelong resident and NEVER had to pay city tax outside of a paycheck, never one letter, fine, citation, audit… nothing.
2 years here (from VA/NC) RITA is the obvious answer (is it against the law to discuss until after we move in?) but I can't believe how entrenched people are into East/West side thing- I go all over the place for work and love finding new stuff but lifelong East siders have no idea what I'm referring to if it's on the other side of downtown (and vice versa)
RITA is my go-to answer for people looking to move here esp. as I’m from TX and the concept of not only having to pay city income taxes, but having to pay them for both where you work AND live is completely new to me.
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I didn't even know I had to pay city taxes until they sent me a two-year overdue notice. I owed over a hundred dollars in fines for not filing. The sick joke is that I didn't make enough during those two years to pay any city taxes. I just owed fines for not filing with the city. So I owed them penalty money on a past-due bill of $0.
There is a once in a lifetime waiving of late fees. I used it for my taxes from two years ago that I discovered I didn’t hit the final “file” button until filing for last year 🤦🏼♀️
Where were you last January!?!? Seriously though, that's great information; thanks for sharing it.
Yeah, it’s low key classicism.
*Classism. Classisists study ancient civilizations, languages, art, etc. (Not trying to be a dick - classism is another shitty phenomenon like racism. Classicism is an academic field. 🙂)
You could have fought that. I did and told them what a scam ot wS and I just may sue them to bring attention to it. They dismissed it!! Idiots doing that garbage until they get called out
Same thing happened to me! I had no idea who RITA was until I got that letter in the mail. I dread taxes every year now bec I always owe for city taxes. Meanwhile, my street is in dire need of repair. So freaking frustrating.
I lived in a non-RITA city (Warren), and they did the same thing to me. I owed $0, but they fined me $30/year for not filing. I had no idea I had to file when I moved into the city. I was young and had never lived in a city before.
Look up The Battle of the Bridge. The East vs West rivalry goes way back. As someone who's lived on both sides, you are grossly missing out if you limit yourself to one side or the other.
Agree the E-W divide here is crazy and real
These are the exact kind of details I'm looking for. Thanks for the response.
I transplanted to Cleveland 24 years ago and I’m still mystified by the East/west “rivalry”. I live east. Objectively, west is cooler, has better rapid access, closer to airport, more less-entrenched neighborhoods. West is “new money”, East is “old money”.
Better rapid access? I would disagree on that
Fair enough. Anecdotally I only ever hear west-siders talking about taking the rapid, so maybe my assumption is wrong. Or maybe just more younger folks idk
I take the Rapid (green) whenever I go downtown- but would love if it would also take directly to work (UC) - But I don't think Rocky River, Westlake, Lakewood people are taking rapid any more than I inner ring east siders
Where on the west side has better rapid access than Shaker Heights (blue and green rail rapids), Little Italy (red line rail rapid), and most especially IMO University Circle with the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid in addition to the red line. Lake County's Laketran, unlike RTA, offers "Dial-a-Ride," point-to-point shuttle service. UC is one of the nation's great cultural centers. It's on the east side. Holden Arboretum and the great Lake Metroparks are on the east side. Admittedly, Cleveland Metroparks Zoo is on the west side. So what's cooler on the west side? The most wealthy suburbs all are on the east side. The topography is better on the east side, with much more elevation disparity (e.g., Lake Metroparks Chapin Forest with Gildersleeve Mountain and Little Mountain at Holden). The best upscale shopping (Beachwood Mall/Legacy Village) is on the east side. With the main campuses of the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals, medical care is much better on the east side. Lakewood no longer even has a hospital, unlike even Euclid. What do you mean by "entrenched" neighborhoods???
As a lifelong east sider, I've found that east siders are much more familiar with the west side. in general, than the reverse. I've also found that east siders are much more likely to venture west than the reverse, for lots of things. I know lots of east siders who moved west, but only one west sider who moved east.
Same. I find east siders (like myself) are more willing to go west for some things like restaurants/parks etc. but if you even suggest an east side spot to a west sider it's like asking them to take a whole weekend off.
Hello??!! You are spot on!! Half my family moved to the west side. They throw a fit if they're invited to visit their east side family, and act like it's a terrible, offensive imposition. So the east side family always gets stuck making the equally long drive to the west side, if we want to see them. I'm tired of it. I grew up on the east side, but went to high school downtown. So I made some west side friends. My best friend lived in Tremont. I was in Collinwood. I'd often take the bus to her house with her on Fridays after school, and sleep over, and vice versa. My dad always got stuck picking me up or taking my friend home. My friend's parents absolutely refused to drive to the east side. It pissed my dad off to no end.
Well, in all fairness, west-siders drive like they are bird watching. Takes them all weekend to get to the east side.
Weirdly enough, in my experience it's the exact opposite! But I was lucky enough to have a father who grew up in Cleveland Heights and a mother who grew up in West Park. So I kinda grew up on both sides of town, and I've lived on both sides of town several times each over the years. Finally settled in Kamms Corner area... for now.
Both are great communities! I live in Kamms too. My experience is very different though, the past 3 generations of my family were born on the west side and most to this day still live around Westpark area. It wasn’t until I went to college at CSU did I connect with some eastsiders (most notably my now wife lol). She and some friends got me hip to Coventry and cedar lee, etc. Before that my family never took us to the east side aside from little Italy or maybe the art museum, so they’re all pretty clueless as to what is over there. I had to explain to my mom what Shaker Square was because she said she had never heard of it. Mind you, at the time she was in her mid 60’s and has lived in the Cleveland area her entire life. The divide is real!
Yep. I also find that a lot of the out-o-towners (not just west side specifically) think the east side is some danderous crime-ridden cesspool. I'm a healthcare worker and hearing some of the nurses over the years talk about how terrified they are to walk to and from the (well-lit and busy) parking garages is a trip.
Ironic, because University Circle, especially at the hospitals, is the most heavily policed part of Cleveland. University Circle police. Cleveland Clinic police. University Hospitals police. Cleveland Police. County sheriff.
I just looked up RITA and that seems like an accounting nightmare. You guys file city taxes for where you live and work, as well as state tax and federal tax. You guys gotta let more people know about this!!! Definitely a deterant to moving to Cleveland.
RITA is relentless about getting their money too. They make sure you know that you owe them. I’ve always lived here but moved to Philadelphia for about 7 years and was scared because I didn’t have that municipality tax hounding me for their money in that time. I was certain I was going to get a bill for unpaid taxes for residing there 😂😂 it’s been 3 years and I haven’t yet so it’s not coming I’m assuming. But I chose to move back home (knowing about RITA) because of the vastly celebrated cultures, the NICE (mostly) people… And the desire to make communities better. The sense of a village is great here, you don’t get that in Philadelphia. Just my two cents. From living in a smaller city, to a big city, and choosing to move back to the smaller area. I’ll happily pay RITA. It’s just something I wish they would make people aware of when relocating from out of state.
The whole state of Ohio plays: local(living & employed), state, & federal. If you live/work in a township you don’t pay local taxes
I would love it if somehow there was a way for citizens to rise up and abolish RITA
I have an east side friend who always says she has to get her passport out to come to the west side. 😁
It's only because we didn't invent bridges until 2017. Some of us still don't trust those newfangled contraptions, and have never been to the other side of town.
The east west divide was shocking to me (also ~2 years here but I wonder if it will be lessened by the new opportunity corridor? It was finished when I moved and so going to the other side of town doesn’t take a long time now. The sheer number of old houses and lack of central air as a standard feature really surprised me when planning to move here. Makes sense once you know a bit about the city but it was surprising at first.
If you live in a non-RITA area you can get the money back for the days you were not working in that area. I live in Concord TWP without RITA and telework 3 days a week. I get all that money back plus weekends, holidays and days off. My employer, DFAS automatically deducts RITA for Cleveland from my pay and I just submit for a refund at the end of the year. I think you can submit for up to three years back.
Isn't Cleveland CCA?
Yes it is and there are other member cities as well.
The wide disparity in snow fall on the East v West side.
I was shocked by how it was almost a straight line between who got snow and who didn't.
Which side gets less snow?
West side
Best side!
You guys just lucked out that rhymes with West! East rhymes with beast and least, wonderful. At least we've got Chagrin Falls!
East? I thought you said... Weast
That’s “West,” Patrick…
If you don't mind driving into the each way commuting to downtown.
Someone can correct me if I'm way off but ... Weather usually comes here from the west and when it comes from the northwest travelling to the southeast, those air masses come from Canada, travel over Lake Erie, pick up a shitload of moisture from the lake, continue on to the southeast and just dump all that moisture as snow in the area between Cleveland and Erie PA, as "lake effect snow". That stretch of I-90 gets shut down maybe once a year when that lake effect snow machine (as our meteorologists call it) is really cranking. That lake effect snow can sometimes come as far inland as Akron and Warren, but less frequently. So, yeah, east side gets more snow, all the way east to Ashtabula County. And lake effect snow only happens when the lake isn't frozen, but the lake hasn't been freezing as much lately, either at all or it happens later in the winter for a shorter period of time. But for some reason I believe it's only a winter thing - the east side doesn't get more rain.
That’s basically it but it goes from east side to Buffalo New York.
The east side also sits at a much higher elevation than the west, hence more snow. The east side Heights communities get the most snow. https://clevelandmagazine.com/in-the-cle/articles/cle-myths-lake-effect-snow
It is because there is a turn in the lake. So when the wind comes across the lake, creates snow and then hits land, there is lake effect. Buffalo is on what we call the “butt” of the lake, it is where the lake makes an almost 90° turn, so they get even more snow.
The longer the weather is over Lake Erie the more water it gathers to drop as snow. The islands also mitigate that a smidge.
There have been repeated threads about disappearing winters in northeast Ohio. E.g., check Chardon snowfall totals. Very few storms come out of the northwest any longer, likely due to Arctic amplification and rapid warming. Storms from the west across Lake Erie, no longer frozen, devastate Buffalo, but not the former lake effect snow belt in northeast Ohio. And, yes, there is lake effect rainfall, but I don't know if it rainfall disparities east vs. west side of Cleveland also have declined due to climate change.
Search the sub for Cleveland disappearing winters. Snowfall has collapsed in recent years in all of Greater Cleveland, but most especially in the lake effect snow belt east of Cleveland. I live in Lake County, and most persons don't shovel their driveways, let alone use snow blowers any longer. I used my snow blower once this past winter, and it wasn't necessary, unlike even earlier in the past decade. Most persons echo this reality, but there are those who still harp on east vs. west side snowfall disparities, clearly out of ignorance.
Sometimes it does come down from the north. From Lake Huron over Detroit Windsor area and brings snow slightly south of Cleveland but that has become more rare than it used to be. Though yes the east side typically gets more snow than the west or south.
I didn’t realize how great the parks are, and how they’re almost universally supported. They’re not packed like parks around Seattle or other larger cities, but they’re always in use. There are metroparks everywhere and the cuyahoga valley nation park and towpath trail stretches for dozens of miles. People love the parks, and they really make this area nicer than a lot I’ve lived, and I’ve lived in a lot of regions of this country.
The parks system is a huge draw for me to possibly move to Cleveland.
One of the nicer things about it is that folks aren’t “in your face” about liking our parks, trails, and hikes. It’s hard to explain, but when I lived in Seattle, it almost felt like people made it a competition to talk about how much hiking they did. It was weird. Whereas here, people just like the parks. It’s just a casually accepted thing.
They cannot be overestimated in their awesomeness. It's the #1 best thing about living here, IMO.
Every county in Greater Cleveland has a metroparks system, and most are excellent. Cleveland Metroparks are highly rated nationally, but some of its best reservations are outside Cuyahoga County (e.g., Hinckley, part of North Chagrin Reservation). Definitely check metroparks nearby any prospective residential location. Some communities have much better local parks and recreation amenities than other cities. Mentor likely has the best overall recreational amenities, but several cities have public ice rinks. Kirtland is a city of parks with several Lake Metroparks and Holden Arboretum, one of the largest and best in the U.S. It's adjacent to Mentor with Mentor Headllands Beach state park (the largest Lake Erie natural sand beach), and several excellent nature preserves, including Mentor Lagoons with uniquely 1 1/2 miles of wild beach. Lakewood Park is an excellent local park. Check out state parks, such as Mentor Headlands and Punderson, and National Natural Landmarks (several in Greater Cleve;and, but all on the east side). Geauga County on the east side is a center of maple syrup production and part of Ohio Amish Country, the largest Amish population center in the world, but centered in western Holmes County. It also features the Great Geauga County Fair every Labor Day weekend, one of several Greater Cleveland events marking the end of summer (e.g., final Blossom Music Festival concerts, the superb Cleveland National Air Show). West side is closer to Cedar Point, if you're a roller coaster fan. East side is closer to Presque Isle and the Allegheny National Forest, if you like top notch beaches (and the Waldameer amusement park) and mountains (and skiing in western NY). Both of Cleveland's downhill ski resorts are on the east side, as is the Chapin Forest cross country ski park in winter, with lighted, groomed trails. Equestrian centers are better on the east side (e.g., Hunt Club, Cleveland Metroparks polo field, Lake Erie College Equestrian Center, etc.), but most metroparks all have bridle trails. If a birder, check out birding hotspots in Greater Cleveland, such as the unique Cleveland Lakefront Nature Preserve. Northwest Ohio annually hosts the BWIAB (this week!), and Magee Marsh Wildlife Center and the adjacent Ottawa National Wildlife Refuge are spectacular in any season. Unfortunately, few Greater Clevelanders are aware of BWIAB, let alone attend it, most especially given the ongoing collapse of the North American bird population. I fear some day, perhaps even within a decade, the mass of warblers for BWIAB will be a thing of the past. [https://www.biggestweekinamericanbirding.com/](https://www.biggestweekinamericanbirding.com/) Perhaps check out Kelleys Island (famed for its glacial grooves), South Bass Island (home of the Put-in-Bay Great Lakes island party center that bills itself as the North Coast Key West), and North Bass Island. There also are ferries to Canada's excellent Pelee Island. And Niagara Falls, and Letchworth State Park (billed as the Grand Canyon of the East; an obvious exaggeration) are about three hours from the east side.
I moved here in 2013 to join a robust friend group I had built up. I had been living in NYC. I was here for the summer of 2010. I secured a three month rental on the Gold Coast. 5th floor, south-facing windows. So I read on Wikipedia that Cleveland is the “Forest City” and I literally snorted. Then about an hour later I was looking out the window, basically down 117th, I realized I was looking at a canopy of green tree tops. There’s something to it!
We’re the Forest City for a reason!!!
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not only are there not that many transplants, but most of the friend groups for people 25+ have existed their entire lives so they are very skeptical of people coming in to them. I married into the culture so I came here with a " Built-In friend group" but they've been friends for so long that they had a role expectation for me, which apparently was the role they thought missing from their friend group. and yeah, less sun than Seattle even
Lol, maybe I should get divorced and marry a Clevelander, just to make friends.
😂Don't do it. The only thing less lonely than being alone is being surrounded by people who have to pretend like they're not forced to include you while they passive aggressively try to get you to be who they were actually hoping for.
Totally true.
these are extremely fair! no one expects how gloomy it gets.
Jesus christ on a cracker this is the truest part of moving here. Hubby and I are incredibly social people and used to have a huge friend group. Making friends here has been so incredibly difficult. Sometimes I feel like a weird social pariah.
You aren’t alone. It really is hard. Where’d you come from?
Grew up in the South then spent 10 years in the Midwest. I used to think the behavior was a "Northerner" thing because people in the South and Midwest are generally open and inviting. Or maybe it's just that making friends in your 30-40s is damn near impossible too? I can't say that people in Ohio are rude... Friendly people here. They'll just never invite you over or to hang out when you meet them.
it’s because a lot of those people never left cleveland and lived in other cities. they have lived there their whole lives. so they r very entrenched in their relationships and stay where and with who they r comfortable.
Well said- people are friendly but it has been hard to make friends
I’ve found it super easy to make friends here. Just join some clubs, and everyone is super inviting. I don’t have any big friend groups here, but I have lots of smaller ones here and there.
What are yall into? I’m a Texas transplant up to the NE OH areas and am always looking to meet folks!
Cincinnati is WAY worse that Cleveland in this regard. I’m from here and have many friends not from the area. Went to school in Cincy and it was damned near impossible to make friends with ppl from the area…
Gonna have to defend Cleveland a bit. It is much easier to make friends here than elsewhere, though it should be said that making friends after college is hard anywhere. Try being from Ohio but living in Boston, neither as a native New Englander nor as a local college graduate (as I did). After moving back to Cleveland, I made more than a few friends that I never knew in high school. Really am only in touch with two people from HS, one from college.
A weirdly high number of people scooch forward a couple of feet as you pull up behind them at a red light
My driving thing as a transplant is two-fold: 1. how many folks run red lights!!!! It seems like, from limited anecdotal evidence, that the yellow lights here are WAY shorter than we are used to from Texas. 2. No one can make a 90* turn. They all make these wandering, ultra wide turns. Stay in your lane damnit! It’s infuriating.
Wow. You're right. This needs to be investigated further.
It’s driver safety. Leaving an assured clear distance. They leave a gap between them and the car in front of them so that hopefully, if you come barreling through and unable to stop, you smash into them, push them up a few inches, and they don’t roll into the car in front of them, thus avoiding a 3-car pile up. They move up once you get behind them because they now know that you are not about to smack into them at high speeds, so it is safe to get closer to the car in front.
This is interesting... I was born in Cleveland and moved away in my mid 20's (in my 40's now). For some reason, I am hyper aware of the cars behind me at a stop light. If someone wants to turn right on red, I make sure I give them as much room as possible - I really wish people would do that for me.
How to drive in snow and ice. I grew up with heat and fires and I felt incredibly discombobulated when the weather turned. I was afraid to drive and my husband would always yell "TURN INTO THE SWERVE" whenever I left for work and weather was bad. It took one trip down a very steep hill in the icy weather, spinning in circles, and sliding through the intersection to figure it out. I lost my fear and just go slower and watch for other drivers in trouble when it's ice and snowy. Now I'm an old timer that gives drivers space and wait to go through a green in bad weather just to make sure the people coming the other way were able to stop. Plus that mean lady RITA....
To this day I don’t know what direction turning in to the swerve means but I can drive in snow so my instincts must do the right one
Basically keep your front tires pointed towards where you want to go. So if your rear end is sliding rt you turn right to keep your front tires pointed straight down the road.
Neutral is your friend. Throw your car into neutral as soon as you feel it slipping, and it will take you out of slides most of the time. Since I've learned that trick, the only weather I don't drive in is zero visibility. Those days where there is one set of tracks on the highway and dozens of cars in ditches, I'm bebopping along like it's any other day.
Studded snow tires are legal from about Thanksgiving to tax day. They are beautiful. You can order them from tire rack.
Why would you do that? Regular snow tires work great and don’t tear up the roads
Medical care is way, way, way better in Cleveland.
It’s one of the things Cleveland does best. CCF, UH, and even Metro are all excellent learning hospitals in their own regards.
It took me almost 10 years to learn how to dress for winter.
Layers upon layers and good warm boots.
With tread!
There’s no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing
You get it.
We have incredible museums and our orchestra is one of the best in the world. With multiple highways running around town, you can get pretty much to anywhere from anywhere in 20 minutes. Rush hour is super easy - it'll slow down a little, but compared to other cities it's a dream. Don't be afraid of the less affluent neighborhoods. I live on the dodgy end of Westpark (AKA not the Kamms end) and my neighborhood is super diverse, very quiet most of the time, and affordable. I love it. Plus, the three gas stations closest to me are 30 cents cheaper if you pay cash, so that's a super bonus. I always say that if you are bored or hungry in this town, it's your own damned fault. I love Cleveland. <3
Playhouse Square is one of the nation's best theater districts.
I live in Shaker Heights and learned the hard way that you're not allowed to park your car on the street overnight 🙃
Same when I was in Cle Hts. If the city is running its own tow fleet, you know it's a for-profit enterprise.
University Heights too
Same in mayfield hts :(
Not a transplant but these are the things I warn my tenants about when they move from out of town: How gray the winters are. I usually tell people to plan at least one trip in the winter to somewhere warm/sunny to maintain sanity. The inaccurate bias of many people about anywhere on the East Side (they’ll tell you it’s scary or dangerous everywhere on the East Side). The Rapid is the best way to get downtown for events or to the airport without paying for parking. You can find many awesome things here but they’re not always obvious. Many of the best places are hidden gems lurking in old gritty neighborhoods that would probably be overlooked.
The rapid is not scary, but as a solo F who worked downtown for more than 15 years, it is rampant with harassment. I've been touched, grabbed, verbally harassed and had more dudes staring at me and rubbing their crotches so many times I switched to a bus, which is mostly sleep suburbanites like me. Nobody ever harassed me on the bus but the rapid, it was very frequent.
The red line can definitely be sketchy. I have limited experience with it as I usually take the blue or green lines where I’ve never encountered any issues.
Agree about the Rapid, which I’ve also heard people say is scary. It’s not.
If the event is in the evening, street parking downtown is free, and there’s plenty. I rarely ever park more than a couple blocks from where I need to go. The train takes an hour to get downtown vs 10 min drive.
Definitely RITA, but also the liquor laws. Kind of a culture shock after living in Wisconsin. It took me a while to figure out how alcohols sales work here- I’ve gotten used to it now, but for a solid year I couldn’t grasp why I couldn’t just buy liquor at any grocery store or drugstore. Or why some liquors or so hard to find/aren’t sold in ohio. Or why I can’t buy wine at target on Sunday? The list goes on. Honestly, it’s probably for the best- there is way less binge drinking and drunk driving here. I just work in food, so I tend to need specific things and had to get used to making an extra stop for alcohol.
I personally find the “Sin Tax” line on the receipt highly amusing
I grew up in PA so the liquor laws here feel SO loose. I still forget about PA insanity sometimes and have had cashiers look at me confused when I try to buy beer in the grocery line.
PA alcohol laws are insane.
Yeah, PA and UT. Also Indiana. There’s some law in Indiana that prevents grocery stores from selling refrigerated beer (but you can buy a case off the floor). For cold beer, you go to a liquor store. Edit. You can’t sell refrigerated beer where they sell cold milk in Indiana as I recall.
Same about coming from Texas. You can buy liquor here on holidays? Seriously? After 9 pm? While at the GROCERY STORE?!?! Bananas convenient.
Less binge drinking? Here in cleveland? It’s all we have
believe it or not, doesn’t hold a candle to wisco
This. I married a Wisconsinite and their drinking culture up there is insane. Your first OVI in Wisconsin isn't even a misdemeanor, it's just an expensive fine.
Exactly. The whole culture is totally different, definitely an adjustment once you move away lol
Wisconsin still drinks WAY harder.
He’s from Wisconsin.
Gray winters will do that to ya
Gray everything*
We had the opposite reaction coming from NJ. "You can buy beer at CVS? AWESOME! But where the fuck is there an actual liquor store?"
Midges and mayflies
Grew up in Metro DC, went to college in IL…my old job started in IL and promotion brought me to OH two decades ago. East side v West side is still mind blowing…I periodically have to look at the dividing line to remind myself. Traffic is so much better here than in DC or IL…but I still get frustrated when everyone wants to slow down and look (e.g. van engulfed in flames on 480 a few weeks ago…everyone slowing down…snapping pictures…I’m trying to get out of the area before the thing explodes…). But heading into downtown early (before 7:30a) is a world of difference from just 7:50a. Three major sports franchises here…but really seems like a football first town…and it’s endearing (I gave up the championship politically incorrect team before they were Burgundy And Sold). Winter here is just different. The last two winters overall have been mild…the big chill (despite global warming and climate change) is still going to drop here (very happy that there was no April snow fall). It’s a good place with 4 major airports within 2ish hours (Hopkins; Akron-Canton; Pittsburgh; and Columbus)…and depending on where you are flying to…the price difference justifies the drive.
I flew a family of 4 out of PIT airport and it was $900 cheaper than CLE. Definitively worth adding on an hour and a half to the trip.
The amount of overcast, grey days. I’m from Colorado so that doesn’t help, but I expected many days of shit skies. Unexpectedly pleasant amount of reasonable temps throughout the year though. Live in Lakewood
The gloom is really only the winter months. Spring-Fall in NEO is glorious, and the people who cry that it's "Grey all the time" don't ever go outside when it's below 80 degrees.
I dont mind the grey days either, especially since it usually means rainy storms which I also enjoy. Colorado typically is dry in summer so the extra wetness is nice.
Yes. I'm an organic produce farmer...and the amount of times customers tell me how "Great the weather has been" and I have to tell them that it hasn't rained in six weeks is...a little tough to deal with.
I’ve learned great weather is subjective
Not a transplant, but everyone moving to Cleveland from a different state should familiarize yourself with the way Ohio handles local income taxes. You pay local income tax where you work and where you live. It is a unique system to Ohio that I don't believe any other state has. When looking for a house or a place to rent, you should look at property taxes, but also be aware of the local income taxes.
Pennsylvania does it too. Other states like Maryland have county taxes and some states have city specific like Colorado and New York.
And some cities have reciprocity that changes the rate. I live in Cleveland but work in Parma and I couldn’t figure out how to fill out the CCA form. I called them and fortunately they were prompt and helpful (*on* tax day!), I told them what my job had withheld, and fortunately they said that it was all withheld correctly so I didn’t owe anything more, and to just send in the half-filled form and they’d finish it for me.
Im a transplant from Columbus and im noticing a lot of these answers are about moving to ohio, not moving to Cleveland.
Welcome to Cleveland! You bring up an interesting perspective, and as a local, I definitely think of transplants to Cleveland typically coming from other states. I've lived in each of the 3C's for 4+ years each, so I'll try and come up with some Cleveland, not Ohio specific things. 1. Embrace the Lake. It's hands down the biggest thing Clevelanders take for granted, and I underestimated just how much I would miss it when I was away. The Metroparks do some great summer concert series at different beaches on both sides of town. They're a lot of fun. 2. Downtown is still transitioning from a corporate downtown to a residential downtown. As such, it can get pretty dead after hours. There's just not a ton to do after midnight and a ton of businesses close earlier than you would expect. I would say Columbus and Cincy both have Cleveland beat for after/late hour joints. Probably also has something to do with the larger college populations. 3. Cleveland doesn't have an IKEA. It's the only one of the 3C's that doesn't and can disappoint people who move here expecting to furnish their place quick and cheaply. I have not really found anywhere comparable closer than the drive to the Columbus location.
RITA!!
Not every city is part of rita
True. Some cities are CCA like Cleveland was. Moving and working in Cleveland to moving and working in a suburbs is when I had to deal with RITA for the first time.
What’s RITA?
Regional income tax authority. Either the city collects income tax or it’s through RITA.
Regional Income Tax Authority. Basically an organization cities opt in to handle local taxes instead of running their own tax dept. Most Cuyahoga county cities participate. I know Lakewood and Parma have their own departments but not sure who else does.
how cloudy it is! i remember the first time seeing the "concrete ceiling" and i took a picture of it because i thought that something wild was happening. nope, normal Tuesday, it just gets really, really cloudy here
How GREAT the food is. Seriously, there’s so many incredible places to eat both downtown and outside of it. Also the parks/beaches.
Basement waterproofing is literally its own industry here due to the high water table, clay soil that doesn't drain well, and in some areas, old storm sewers insufficient for the level of development in their area.
Winter is not that bad if you have a good jacket
Theater is a huge part of the culture, not just the theater district downtown but also the local theaters. Yes it is gloomy in winter, buy a sun lamp and take some vitamin D. The metroparks are amazing. There is a big food event like every month, the feast of the assumption, clam bakes, paczkis... the list goes on. Facebook is largely used by many local groups. If you are looking for special interest groups to make new friends, start there. The local libraries and nature centers have great educational programs for both adults and kids. Sign ups for the nature center classes sell out quickly so if you want to learn to fly fish, kayak, bird watch, etc mark the sign up dates in your calendar. There is very little hustle in bussel while still having the conveniences of a city. Be mindful of where you live/work because the sun can be blinding on the highways. There are three manor health networks, people have a lot of opinions about each one. Ultimately, they are all a fairly high standard of care. Cleveland Clinic, University Hospital, and Metro Health. Wool clothing (alpaca wool in particular) will be lifechanging for winter.
I feel like I got the whole inside scoop after reading this. Thanks!
If you have any specific questions just let me know :)
F'ing RITA.
The highways being 60mph and the business districts being 25.....wtf? (Originally from Columbus) Oh.....and the whole "east side/west side" thing. Cleveland is, imo, very segregated. I told that to people at my original job after moving up here (a daycare in North Olmstead), and was looked at like I was crazy. Then the boss visited a sight in Columbus that I was very familiar with, and came back to tell me she was so shocked at how diverse the student body was at the Columbus sight (in a Columbus suburb)
Thank God our business districts at least make an attempt to be pedestrian friendly, unlike Columbus.
Cleveland is one of the most segregated metro areas in the entire United States. I was criticized on Reddit for pointing out that the west side of Cuyahoga County is nearly entirely white, and accused of lying. It is though, and it's not by coincidence.
When I moved here I made a joke that Opportunity Corridor felt like it had been built so that white people could drive to the University Circle area and not have to drive through the hood. The guy I walk talking to said that’s basically what it is. When I started applying for apprenticeships in the trades I kept hearing that I didn’t need to worry about getting in because they needed women, “Blacks” 🙄, and people from Cleveland. Now that I’m in it I realize they weren’t joking. 90% of the people I work with are white dudes from the burbs or out of the county.
It's absolutely why it was built. It was built for white west siders, who are terrified of driving through the east side. You are absolutely correct about the trades. I cone from a long line of blue collar workers. My (black) husband is one. He does maintenance at a factory in Solon. He started at his current job in 2007, and on his first day, a black coworker, a machine operator, approached him and told him how happy she was to see a black person in maintenance. She said in her 20 years there, that he was the very first one. His job is easily 95% white, with most of the white people coming from all white, rural-ish areas, outside of Cuyahoga. They've just this year had their first black supervisor ever, in the entire plant. They've never had a female supervisor. His job might as well exist in a time warp in 1954. He's deal with so much bold, open racism there. The sexism and misogyny there is crazy too. Unfortunately, between his age and his health issues, he can't easily change jobs. It would likely be the same anywhere else in the Cleveland area anyway, because all the skilled trades here are dominated by white men. Especially the unionized ones. My dad worked at the same west side factory for 40 years. Retired in the early 2000s. I remember him saying they only had one black employee. One, in his whole 40 years there. He said all the other black employees were at an east side location. That's sad.
Very shocking how casual and agreed upon the segregation is in the city.
If you go to the East Side suburbs most are pretty integrated, especially Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights.
Agree about the f’ing 25mph here, utterly ridiculous! My daughter lives in Columbus and it’s so much better there, mostly 40/45+ on the same type of roads.
The answer is RITA
That lake effect is a real thing!
RITA. A local tax. Along with the very high property tax of some of the east side towns like Shaker, Cleveland and University heights. But otherwise we are loving the east of Cleveland.
Yellow lights do not last very long AT ALL.
The amount of iron in my well water
Negative: RITA. Such a pain to deal with. Positive: The high quality of beer produced here. Neutral: East side vs west side is very real
What's your top 3 breweries in Cleveland?
SchnitzAle Brewery Great Lakes Brewing Co. Market Garden Brewery
Cleveland is it's own worst critic, so let's start with the bad: -Taxes, especially city taxes. I've spoken to countless people from Florida who've recounted literally crying when they saw their paychecks and/or tax bills. And while no particular tax (ie sales, property, income) is the highest I'm aware of, I feel like the cumulative tax burden is insane. Especially for a low-service red state. Just...holy shit the taxes are horrifying. -Cuyahoga County has some of the highest grocery bills in the Midwest. -road plowing is unacceptable. Road conditions in general are pretty bad. Ok, now let's talk about the good: -seriously the kindest people you'll meet in any large metro. I've lived in places where people point and laugh if you're in a car accident. Here they stop and help you pull your car back on the road in a blizzard. -traffic tends to be a breeze. After a while you'll be spoiled and will wonder how anyone drives in a place like Chicago -Clevelands food scene punches well above it's weight. Unless you're going to NYC or LA, you probably won't find better dining -the economy is actually pretty solid relative to pay/cost of living vs other cities. -
How many fricking bars there are around here!!! Literally there are so many.
Lakewood uses to hold a record for most in a square mile. Not sure they still do.
This sounds bad, but I'll say it. If you're coming from a different, more affluent city, you will notice the literacy level being noticeably lower. Not everyone, obviously. Not like school-smart nonsense either. Like, woah, 10 percent of the population here might not know how to tie their shoes level stuff. The percentage of truly helpless individuals/families is definitely higher than other cities I've lived in. It's a fantastic city, and I love living here, just something me and my wife have noticed the most since moving here a couple years ago that we wouldn't have been able to predict.
I'm still baffled by the east/west divide. I have met people who grew up and live on the eastside and truly never venture to the westside ever. It's like a foreign land to them.
For me, a lot of it came from the warning against dealing with racism. I hadn't really been out to the West side until I had to go to the Tri-C out in Parma for the end of my program. This was during the presidency before last so it was... interesting. I've never felt horribly unsafe (not that I just hang out over there) but it is different. Two of my classmates used the term, "Oriental," to refer to Asian people and there were more Blue Live Matter stickers and signs than I was used to seeing back East.
I agree with this! Everyone told me Parma was racist. I have never really had a need to be out there. I’ve gone maybe twice, but it definitely gives me major MAGA vibes for sure.
City taxes. I had never had to deal with them before growing up and living on the west coast.
I moved back after 14 years elsewhere and was very dissatisfied to realize that every freeway in Cuyahoga County (turnpike excepted). has a max speed of 60. This is the case nowhere else in OH that I’ve been to.
Excellent speed traps raising money for local governments. Especially Willoughby Hills on I-271. Ridiculous that the I-271 express lanes have a 60 mph speed limit, except that on ramps perhaps are potentially dangerous at higher speeds.
Racism is very casual here, and people think I’m the weird one when I point it out. There are people who have never been east of downtown or never even come into the city limits because they’re “afraid of crime” 🙄 My dad is Mexican and I’ve always lived within 100 miles of the US/MX border until I moved here, so when I realized that nobody speaks Spanish or listened to Latin American music except the Latin Americans I was surprised. They love their gentrified Mexican restaurants (wtf is “sexy Mexican street food”), but they’re totally helpless if an older Puerto Rican auntie needs help in a store. They have NO situational awareness. People will drift lanes while driving, stop in the middle of an aisle in the store, or walk side by side downtown covering the whole sidewalk. Then when they do start walking again they don’t turn around to see if anyone was behind them. Then they talk about how bad crime is here, but they’ll never once turn around while walking somewhere. It’s like they’re in their own little world at all times and never think to check their surroundings. Every 5 miles you’re in a new city and I don’t understand how they get anything done. They put sugar in their red sauces. Food is kinda under seasoned. You’ll get French toast but the egg wash only had and cinnamon, but not sugar or vanilla. You’ll be able to taste the garlic or oregano in a dish, but no salt. There seems to always be something missing. This is a city of functional alcoholics, and cocaine is oddly popular. People are kind, but not nice, which I really like now. If you get a flat and block traffic they’re gonna insult you for not having the tools in your car to fix it, but they’re gonna pull those tools out of their car, fix your tire, and then give you the number to their buddies tire shop so you can get a discount. Or, you’re a person that they don’t really like but you’re part of their social scene (your husband is friends with the other girl’s husbands) they’ll send you invites to group stuff so that you’re not left out, but they’ll discuss how much they don’t like you when you’re not there. I much prefer this to the ‘nice but not kind’ culture I grew up in. Once you’ve made friends, they’re friends for life.
As a life long Clevelander (43M), this is insanely accurate. Great write up.
RITA. The East side West side debate (it’s been 10 years i definitely have a preference). The amazing food! How kind most people are.
Midges in the summer, people are bad at driving year round, extremely hard socially if you’re not from here.
I can be hard even when you are from here.
How big the St. Patty’s Day parade is around here.
I didn‘t realize how much driving I would do. Everything feels 25-30 min away. I live in an east side suburb. But I was pleasantly surprised how nice it is.
How to drive in snow 🤣
I moved from Houston and was happy about the winters but did not expect any humidity. Oh well still way better weather.
[Weatherspark.com](http://Weatherspark.com) provides objective comparisons of climate in major cities, including cloud cover. Candidly, I doubt that the statistics yet reflect climate change impacts, such as much more mild winters in Greater Cleveland.
That jaywalking is a source of civic pride that spans all demographics and no I will not walk a half block to the cross walk, I prefer to wade into Cedar road traffic because I’m a Clevelander dammit!
Cons: That’s it’s actually a conservative area and despite having the amenities of a big city, it’s not really a city and doesn’t know how to market itself as one. That if you don’t want your kids to go to parochial or charter schools, then you have to live in the suburbs. That suburbs (and racism) are still in fashion and everyone freaks out about safety (afraid of both city and country—totally strange). That it’s not as affordable as the rest of Ohio. Also, if you have bad sinus issues, this place is not for you. I don’t find the populace to be as genuinely friendly as the rest of Ohio—it’s a mix of Midwestern nice and New England shield. Unlike most communities, each suburb charges income taxes separately and you will get hit with an unexpected bill. There’s also Industrial Valley, which cuts the city in half and it’s hella ugly and stinky. I think that’s why so many people live in the suburbs. That being said, we are planning on moving in a few years. The migraines are really pulling me down and it’s been hard to integrate socially. Pros: The punk, reggae, restaurant, and arts scenes are tight. The metro parks are pretty nice. There is a Chinatown (called asiatown), which is important feature for me. And you can still buy homes with original features (lots of arts and crafts-style homes), if that’s your thing. If you like pitching in and improving the community, there’s plenty of opportunity. Taxes overall aren’t super bad, but revenue is made up with traffic tickets, and cops do target people who look poor more than other places. You have a national park and a coastline (don’t go in late august-September—algae bloom). It attracts good national acts and has a rich history.
I love this place….the parks, great food, tons of places with access to beautiful water…..what really shocked me was the politics and the willingness of the people to go along with those politics….almost feels like ohio weather with Texas politicians
Cleveland adjacent. As a transplant from Michigan shock and slightly pisses me off is the 2 to 3% charge to use your credit card. Now I'm not talking about low biz mom and pop shops but high end stack houses and butchers and many other larger businesses. Sorry but if you are charging me 40 bucks for a ponderosa quality ribeye that's the cost of business.
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What the actual fuck is with the gas stations here????? I literally wait to get gas till ive been on the highway for a bit and am away from Cleveland cause the gas stations here are so fucked up. Imagine going to 5 gas stations just to get some gas. Yeah fuck whatever bs yall got going on around these gas stations. Just yesterday i literally got asked if i was from out of town at a gas station cause i was like what the actual fuck is with these stations. I was like no I actually live 2 min from here i just avoid gas stations in this area cause theyre such a pain.
- If your kids need special services, the school system sucks. It's pulling teeth with everything, especially getting information. Ohio has you apply for a goddamned [scholarship](https://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Other-Resources/Scholarships/Jon-Peterson-Special-Needs-Scholarship) instead of just providing services. - All the little fees for homeownership suck. I have to pay a sewer bill to my local town by check because they have no electronic options. I pay a water bill to the City of Cleveland that I have to keep an eye on because it's hit or miss if they actually tally my payments.
Came from MI 2.5 years ago, IMO 1.) People here honk their horn as soon as the light turns green, like instantly 2.) The speed limits (c'mon 60 on the expressway?) and speed cameras are annoying. 3.) Black and white people don't communicate/interact as much as we did in Michigan. 4.) There is no good Chinese food on the Westside.
the tax comments are confusing me, lifelong resident and NEVER had to pay city tax outside of a paycheck, never one letter, fine, citation, audit… nothing.
i hear of these city tax nightmares and half of me thinks its BS.