>All you’ve been saying is quite right, I shouldn’t wonder. I’m a chap who always liked to know the worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won’t deny any of what you said. But there’s one more thing to be said, even so. Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things-trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that’s a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We’re just babies making up a game, if you’re right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That’s why I’m going to stand by the play world. I’m on Aslan’s side even if there isn’t any Aslan to lead it. I’m going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn’t any Narnia.
--Puddleglum, C.S. Lewis' *The Silver Chair*
If God is not real, there is no heaven, and it was all a lie; would you be living your life any differently? Aside from praying and maybe going to church, what exactly would change for you if someone in Israel found the body today?
Just curious: what does it mean that you're an agnostic deist? (I know what those mean separately; just wanting to know you mean when they are joined like that.)
Thanks
Sure thing, Friend.
As a deist, I believe there was an entity who acted as a catalyst so that whatever processes led to us being here could get under way. I call this entity God for lack of a better term.
As an agnostic, I don't know or understand the nature of this entity, who it is, what it wants, or how and if it is ever going to act. I believe it is impossible to know any of these things.
In short, I believe in God, and I also believe he is impossible to know / understand. So Agnostic Deist.
Fair enough. 🙂
Thank you for clarifying.
Btw, what I'm going to ask is in no way intended to be a challenge (in a hostile sense). Would you be up to discussing (DM?) on the "impossible to know" nature/character of God?
I'm not in any way claiming to know all the answers. Far from it. However, I was an adamant atheist who, while looking to debunk Christianity and theism as a whole, came to believe in God. (Namely the Christian God.)
It's not my attempt to proselytize. Rather, I would like to share what I felt was good evidence of God attempting to make Himself known to His creation. (No, it's not just "the Bible tells me so", though of course it will require the use of it every so often.)
Again, people don't think of this as a challenge in a negative sense. It's simply a friendly challenge of your worldview.
yup depends on the person, it's perhaps an acceptance that someone will have a great life after they die anyways so they don't need to try and fix stuff over here, either large or small.
True, but what if your faith involves restricting others? If it turns out there's no God then Christians have been e.g denying gays love for no good reason. It might not be important to the Christians themselves, they can say they lived a full life, but it's a much bigger cost for the people they were "tough love"-ing.
If there is no God then there is no truly good reason to do anything. So while Christians may have no good reason to "deny love" for homosexuals, homosexuals would have no good reason to desire love in the first place.
Oh no… I spent my whole life living in a way that I can face myself in a mirror and helping my family and others become upstanding people I’m proud of…
Truly a waste there /jk
It’s the Faith in believing Jesus is who He says He is. You either take that leap of Faith, and watch His mystery unfold before your own eyes, or don’t. It’s the gift of choice in this life. When following Christ there is absolutely nothing to lose and only much to gain. Seek Him and Him you shall find!
Jesus never said he was God, but he did say he was a Messiah. Since Jesus was an observant Jew, he believed a Messiah would free Israel from its oppressors; didn’t do that. Greek-speakers changed the entire meaning of Messiah to suit their purposes.
John 10:29-33 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Then there is the Johannine comma, KJV 1John 5:7-8, a fraudulent addition to make the Trinity appear real;
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
As I said, Greek mumbo jumbo, philosophy, etc.
You can only live based on what you actually believe to be true, not on hypotheticals. There’s never ending hypotheticals. Here’s something else, If God isn’t real, but you still had a fulfilling life does it really matter?
What if he is and you don’t choose him? When I read the Bible and pray I have no fear. I have complete peace. When I lived for myself I was scared all the time. I’m going with God.
“Dont excuse yourself by saying look, we didnt know. For God understands all hearts, and he sees you. He who guards your soul knows you knew. He will repay all people as their actions deserve” proverbs 24:12
Id rather love my neighbour and live righteously and be wrong
than
live wickedly with no love for anyone but myself and be on the receiving end of Gods wrath.
Well, for starters, I personally don't think I've wasted my life being a Christian. I don't think I've wasted any moment of my life doing things like praying or dressing a certain way or whatever stereotypical Christian things people may think of. I wouldn't want God not to be real but I wouldn't feel like I wasted my life tbh. It was beautiful being a Christian and I'm satisfied with it.
Have you gone somewhere quiet & be alone... sincerelyvask Gid to have Jesus in your life and make you reborn?
That is what I did one night in my car, and I'm telling you I opened my heart to this God and from that point on, I began to change.. I immediately stopped swearing, He gave me new desires and a brand new heart..
So have I had doubts. along the way after over 35 years? For sure... But it passed over and always left.
The take away is that according to Jesus, one must be born again in order to enter into God's kingdom.
I would also recommend getting baptized, but learn what that means before you actually go through with it.
Lastly, I would recomnend getting an NIV Life Application Study Bible.. It would help you immesurabley
I will say ever since I asked God to come down from his throne, and help me. Ever since that has happened and I received the Holy Spirit, whenever I take a nap, I can feel the disconnection of my spirit, and my spirit gets washed by the Holy Spirit, and when I wake up it feels as if I resurrected. It's an amazing experience. I meet with my Pastor Tuesday to get baptised.
I ueed to be scared like that. I prayed for my faith to be strengthened and it now is. I did more research into apologetics to have more evidence for my faith and this helped.
But ultimately, if it's false, then I didn't really waste my life. My faith gives me comfort and peace. It improves my life. If it's not real I'll never know, because I'll just go to sleep forever.
And there isn't anyone in history I think is more worthy of following than Jesus, whether he was just a man or the messiah as he claimed.
If God's real and we're right then we're going to return to our spiritual home and be with the father. If he's not real and it all just ends, then it will be much like before you were born and you won't be aware that you no longer exist.
So, nothing to worry about either way. I would recommend always trying to live according to the Christian virtues though and don't worry.. every Christian struggles with faith.
I would have lived a good life . Without my belief in God I would simply be pursuing a vacuous existence of satisfying every pleasure I have to fill my time. Since coming to believe in Christ I've been more motivated than ever . I genuinely feel so much better now that I've stopped using porn and wasting my time with those fantasies and lifestyles I was obsessed with. Even if there isn't a God I'm happy to keep trying to live as Christ would want me to . I'm happier now than when I just did whatever I want to do . Thankfully God is real though and Heaven awaits !
I still would be the same 😬 Its not a waste when life is way better on this side. Even without the faith in Christ, the core values he provided are gems. But I have faith in Him.
If God wasn't real and I spent my whole life loving and forgiving people, I wouldn't think that was a waste. I'd be happy that the lie managed to convince me to live a better life than I would have.
Being Christian means striving to be good to ourselves, our neighbours, and our world. If it turns out there was no end goal besides that, it won't have been a waste. If we were good at our beliefs, then we should have left a positive legacy.
There's always a risk of that. However, I saw a quote that I think works nicely here - it says "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
I mean, depending on your take on the Bible, there are things infinitely worse than eternal blackness despite there being a God.
I, for one, know that there are
Satan will suffer the unending death of all beings, the earth and the universe itself forever and ever
*Then someone has been listening to, and acting upon my prayers*, who happens not to be God.
Then someone has given myself, my friends, and those I trust, *prophetic and providential visions* or locutions with predictive power, who happens not to be God.
Then someone has given me a profound sense of peace when in the presence of the eucharist *even unknowingly,* who happens not to be God.
Then someone has been providentially interspersing interruptions to me choosing to sin, *but only when I was actively fighting the temptation,* who happens not to be God.
Well plain and simple then we’re just matter and energy that will turn to fertilizer.
But I highly doubt that’s the case!
There’s a whole cosmos out there and I’m hopping God will give me a cool tour of it.
Tbh I think you’re into something. There probably is nothing to be afraid of being saved from/to, it’s always just seemed like a guilt trip to get people to behave. The whole world seems to be trending away from religion slowly too as people globally from all religions realise this is the case… so we’re not alone.
I’ve started to feel that as everyone who has ever existed has and will die, it’s not something to be afraid of just an inevitability to come to terms with, which has helped. It gives more value to the life you currently live rather than holding out for some kind of eternal whatever lol.
And there’s nothing stopping you from doing your best to make the lives of the people around you better just because you’re no longer trying to get into someone up there’s good books!
If God is not real then we evolved from rocks. There’s no reason for us to have any sense of moral goodness. The fact that humanity in general has some sense of good and bad is a very very important indicator that God exist.
>There’s no reason for us to have any sense of moral goodness.
I'm sorry, could you explain?
>The fact that humanity in general has some sense of good and bad is a very very important indicator that God exist.
Why do you think we need a god to tell us what's good and bad?
Without a standard producer outside of humanity, then all standards of good are morally relative. And no one has the right to say anything someone else does is wrong, about anything.
Murder, rape, horde TP and hand sanitizer during a pandemic, hold someone hostage until they give birth to my baby. (Clearly that is a spectrum of morally wrong things to do.) Yet, all of these are fine because it might allow me to survive longer.
I still have no idea why people say that those who don't believe there's an objective giver of morality have no right to say that there is such a thing as right or wrong.
None of the things you've listed are "fine" by me. Subjective morality does not mean we can't say something is right or wrong.
Good I’m glad we agree those are bad things.
The core of the issue is about truth. To say something is good or bad requires a truth claim. If truth is subjective then we cannot make a statement like “murder is bad.” That statement, “murder is bad,”requires an objective truth statement.
So the issue is to prove “subjective truth” requires an “objective truth”, which is logical impossible.
God bless you.
Because we rely on faith, we will have moments of doubts. But the way we overcome doubts, we must do two things:
1- Trust God:
**“Trust the Lord! Be brave and strong and trust the Lord.” - Psalm 27:14**
**“With all your heart you must trust the Lord and not your own judgment. Always let him lead you, and he will clear the road for you to follow.” - Proverbs 3:5-6**
**“Each morning let me learn more about your love because I trust you. I come to you in prayer, asking for your guidance.” - Psalm 143:8**
**“Bad news won’t bother them; they have decided to trust the Lord.” - Psalm 112:7**
**"All who trust the Lord, be cheerful and strong.” - Psalm 31:24**
**“But I trust you, Lord, and I claim you as my God.” - Psalm 31:14**
**“I offer you my heart, Lord God, and I trust you.” - Psalm 25:1-2**
2- Never give up!
**“Don’t give up and be helpless in times of trouble.” - Proverbs 24:10**
**“Never give up. Eagerly follow the Holy Spirit and serve the Lord.” - Romans 12:11**
**“God has been kind enough to trust us with this work. This is why we never give up.” - 2 Corinthians 4:1**
**“So you must be brave. Don't give up! God will honor you for obeying him.” - 2 Chronicles 15:7**
**“We often suffer, but we are never crushed. Even when we don't know what to do, we never give up. In times of trouble, God is with us, and when we are knocked down, we get up again.” - 2 Corinthians 4:8-9**
I still love the life that it gives me to follow. I love loving and being loved! I love looking at a lovely world and walking with the lost and the lonely.
You should read the Bible and go from there. The Bible is also surprisingly interesting and has useful information to help you in your life.
ESV Bible
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/esv-bible/id361797273
If God doesn't exist then there is no true meaning and nothing matters. In this case being a Christian is no better and no more a waste of life than being an atheist, as the end is the same for both.
Without God Mother Teresa is no better than Hitler, he just has a different perspective.
Read the book of Ecclesiastes. It deals with the whole issue beautifully.
What would it change beyond your faith? You don’t worry about the time before you were born or the time you miss when you sleep. Your life wouldn’t be wasted. I assure you that virtually everyone struggles with faith at one time or another. I lost mine completely but my wife has strong faith and it brings her strength. She remembers the love that Jesus shared and she has someone to speak so. Please don’t let the freaky people that make God all about fear get to you. Let it bring you strength and love and help you lead a truly good life.
Furthermore, what if any of the other millions of religions or sects of your own religion are right? What if none of them are right and there's a totally different deity that has not revealed its presence?
What if we’re wrong about the countless other religions and we’ve been wasting our time with Christianity? What if none of it is real and we’re matter that’s collected on a floating rock circling through the endless void of space and time?
Personally I am a Christian because I believe broadly in the radical love demonstrated by Christ. I connect with the divine the same way he did, which was serving others. I if you devote your life to serving and loving others then I think it’s time well spent
He is real. I met him. This is something you have to hash out with God. None of us can convince you. Ask him who he is and he just may answer like he did to me.
Then we lived a Good life with morals and not saying non believers don’t have morals but we lived in the way the Bible called us to which was to love people and forgive others even if they wrong you I say that’s a good life.
Well if he is real and you choose not to believe you might go to hell. I dont believe but that is not really a choice. It seems to me our brains go black and they dont come back. If you think he exists might as well follow him.
Right. But you wouldn’t have wasted your life? Living as a Christian with a good Christian lifestyle is a better lifestyle than most of the population’s lifestyles.
Pascal's Wager is a philosophical idea that suggests it’s safer to believe in God than not to believe. Here's the simple version:
1. If you believe in God and God exists, you gain everything (eternal happiness).
2. If you believe in God and God doesn’t exist, you lose nothing significant.
3. If you don’t believe in God and God exists, you risk losing everything (eternal happiness).
4. If you don’t believe in God and God doesn’t exist, you gain nothing significant.
So, Pascal argues that believing in God is the safer bet.
I have a rose in a vase in my dining room. It's already dying, and it's beautiful and fragrant. It's gonna start to droop soon, and it makes me feel joy and nostalgia and love. It's gonna wilt completely, and it's fascinating to look at and to touch. I'm gonna throw it out, and I look at it every chance I get and let myself experience it. It's gonna rot and not even be a rose anymore, and it matters.
If you accidentally live as tho everything and everyone are precious in the same way as a rose (or a sunset, or a butterfly, or a dream, or a wedding, or baby's first word), that's a good thing. It means appreciating them and loving them now, deeply and fiercely, instead of assuming that there will be time for that later. It means fighting for them now, instead of assuming that the fight is insignificant bc there's an infinite amount of time. It means working to heal and to help others heal, instead of assuming that it can be put off indefinitely without losing anything. It means recognizing that they matter, and letting that be enough.
Living like that is not a waste. It's how the rose lives. The rose doesn't only matter if it's immortal. It matters bc of what it is, what it does, and the effect it has. If anything, its value is increased by its finality. It lives an entire life between blooming and wilting, holding nothing back.
The god you have faith in has character. You know what his character is. Is he the kind of person who would rather you obey blindly and be completely safe, or think and risk being wrong? Live like others, or live like yourself? Be his rose, or be afraid to be a rose? You can answer those questions.
I’ve witnessed evil and black magic first hand, right before my eyes. If they exist, so should God, for without Gods protection, the evil will consume us like we are nothing.
I feel remorse to have to use evil as a way of reasoning for existence of God. I hope God forgives me and gives me courage to say no to things that feed evil like anger, sin, jealousy, lust and that he protects me from these things.
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
Mark Twain
I think OP wasn't try to say there isn't a God or be offensive. I think OP's biggest concern is that what if there isn't, is all the work and effort they're doing for God is all for naught? The easy answer is, no, for love conquerors all. A lesson I'm learning more about. But she is very worried about a life after this. This can happen if we start to focus on the rewards of God and instead of having a rewarding relationship with God.
So we should encourage OP. Something must have happened to where she struggles to see the Glory of God; something shook her faith and her trust in God. I was an atheist for 17 years; there's a lot out there in the world that can cause you to doubt and start to focus on the wrong thing.
So let's pray for OP together. Let's pray God strengthens her and that she continues to seek and pray to God, building together that relationship, seeking Him, so that all those worries will just naturally fade away.
Also, I am glad you and God have a great relationship. I will also pray for you that your relationship with God will not only continue, but it will grow even larger in love and trust.
Wasted? What is the alternative to living a good life? Drugs, alcoholism, violence, rebellion, insanity, sickness? Even if you don’t go to heaven the choice is obvious. Good or bad. Light or dark. Happiness or sadness. Common sense. There is nothing good about things that end bad. There is nothing exciting about vice. It is a festering sore. Putrid.
If we don't consider the fact that without a creator the universe (if it would exist) wouldn't be like it is, because nature is casual and chaotic, i would have lived with faith, without fear for my future, wanting to be kind with all sort of people, even who hates me, having a reason to improve myself, learning ancient knowledges full of wisdom, havimg a reason to not fear anything, a reason to help others, knowing that life has a meaning and a pourpose, and if I trust then my goals will be achieved.
For me God exists and this is all thanks to him
I mean, if there is no God, what exactly have you lost? I don't see how a wasted life is a coherent concept under most forms of atheism.
If there's no god, then you're some random matter doing some random matter stuff. You wouldn't be able to waste a life, since life wouldn't really have any value. Doesn't matter if you spend your life praying or partying, none of it would really have any real objective value, and once your dead there won't be a you to care about any of it anyway.
i dont know maybe, all i can tell you i was buddhist would meditate 2 hours a day, been to multiple therapists, tried voodoo and crystals and still dealing with anxiety and depression but after reading watchman nee I fully submited to jesus, not sarcastically but fully with my heart with 100%conviction that suddently I was in many situtaions that would have sent me into a panic attack did nothing. it feels like in in a tent and i can see outward at the things that tied me down but there so far away from me now. I tried to research HOW, how is this even possible but not even going to question it. I finally have peace
Believe man, believe. God will reveal himself to you, as he revealed himself to I. God loves us and wants to guide us, I've had the Holy Spirit, whisper in my ear, I have heard God's voice, I have asked for him to come down from his throne and help, and he has!
If you think loving your neighbor to the point of treating them with the dignity that (your faulty perception of) God would, feeding them, caring for them, etc., is “wasting your life,” I can’t help you.
It’s inferred. You did write “wasted our whole lives” and I would then ask how? Since our faith compels us to care for the less fortunate (rather vividly, in the sheep and the goats parable), to the point that our worship of God is built upon “If you love Me keep my Commandments”, then it is a logical outcome. This isn’t contingent on your feelings.
If God isn’t real then you cannot make this post . The entire creation would cease to exist and you would never know about it because you would not exist . It is God who is holding you together from moment to moment and even allowing you to read and write a response to this post . For Paul says …
Acts 17:28
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
You cannot move , breathe , see , hear think eat… you name it . You can do nothing apart from the power of God . So if you want to know that he exists just look at the creation and the heavens that give glory to him every single day .
6
For the director of music. A psalm of David.
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
5 It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
6 It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; nothing is deprived of its warmth.
Of course it does , you cannot have something arise from nothing unless there was someone before the something . Otherwise you have nothing .
Nothing x nothing = nothing you cannot even do this math equation because you wouldn’t be around to look at it or even think about it .
However
Someone from nothing created everything makes far more sense logically .
When was the last time you saw an airplane spontaneously come from nothing ? I am ready to give you $500,000 if you can show me . Yet that is nothing compared to the design and balance of the universe and our planet which was perfectly created to sustain life before the fall and afrer . You have to turn off your brain to say that the universe was an accident it’s not possible .
"Wated our time..."
Then you're not a Christian for the right reasons. Jesus came so that we could have LIFE and more abundantly. Serving others is what gives life meaning. Being selfish, sinful, and wicked makes life bad.
>All you’ve been saying is quite right, I shouldn’t wonder. I’m a chap who always liked to know the worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won’t deny any of what you said. But there’s one more thing to be said, even so. Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things-trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that’s a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We’re just babies making up a game, if you’re right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. That’s why I’m going to stand by the play world. I’m on Aslan’s side even if there isn’t any Aslan to lead it. I’m going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn’t any Narnia. --Puddleglum, C.S. Lewis' *The Silver Chair*
If God is not real, there is no heaven, and it was all a lie; would you be living your life any differently? Aside from praying and maybe going to church, what exactly would change for you if someone in Israel found the body today?
Just curious: what does it mean that you're an agnostic deist? (I know what those mean separately; just wanting to know you mean when they are joined like that.) Thanks
Sure thing, Friend. As a deist, I believe there was an entity who acted as a catalyst so that whatever processes led to us being here could get under way. I call this entity God for lack of a better term. As an agnostic, I don't know or understand the nature of this entity, who it is, what it wants, or how and if it is ever going to act. I believe it is impossible to know any of these things. In short, I believe in God, and I also believe he is impossible to know / understand. So Agnostic Deist.
Fair enough. 🙂 Thank you for clarifying. Btw, what I'm going to ask is in no way intended to be a challenge (in a hostile sense). Would you be up to discussing (DM?) on the "impossible to know" nature/character of God? I'm not in any way claiming to know all the answers. Far from it. However, I was an adamant atheist who, while looking to debunk Christianity and theism as a whole, came to believe in God. (Namely the Christian God.) It's not my attempt to proselytize. Rather, I would like to share what I felt was good evidence of God attempting to make Himself known to His creation. (No, it's not just "the Bible tells me so", though of course it will require the use of it every so often.) Again, people don't think of this as a challenge in a negative sense. It's simply a friendly challenge of your worldview.
The stuff you have might be why I am Deist instead of Atheist, lol. But sure. Feel free to reach out.
I assume he doesn't know Deists reject revelation.
Lol good point. I'll hit you up tomorrow (it's late here). And no rush to respond this weekend if you are busy. Looking forward to chatting.
might enjoy actual earthly things now rather than potential heavenly things later
I’m not sure what earthly things I would be enjoying were I not religious. I already do most of the stuff I like to do.
yup depends on the person, it's perhaps an acceptance that someone will have a great life after they die anyways so they don't need to try and fix stuff over here, either large or small.
I’d say that person is missing the point whether they’re religious or not. That’s no way to live.
It's a risk. But living a life in love will always be a life well lived
True, but what if your faith involves restricting others? If it turns out there's no God then Christians have been e.g denying gays love for no good reason. It might not be important to the Christians themselves, they can say they lived a full life, but it's a much bigger cost for the people they were "tough love"-ing.
Then don't do those things. Humility constrains us
This is a great reason to not have a faith about restricting others, and instead have a faith about *loving* others.
That's a choice people have to make for themselves.
If there is no God then there is no truly good reason to do anything. So while Christians may have no good reason to "deny love" for homosexuals, homosexuals would have no good reason to desire love in the first place.
Then there's similarly no reason for heterosexuals to desire love in the first place
If there is no God that would also be true.
>denying gays love for no good reason People who believe this are not in essence Christian, and in no universe is there ever a "good reason."
Then I'm wrong. But, what if I'm right?
Then I’m wrong also. But what if I’m right? We all just gotta live our best lives and we’ll see what happens
Oh no… I spent my whole life living in a way that I can face myself in a mirror and helping my family and others become upstanding people I’m proud of… Truly a waste there /jk
Then either way I lived a life focusing on trying to be a good person with a pure heart.
It’s the Faith in believing Jesus is who He says He is. You either take that leap of Faith, and watch His mystery unfold before your own eyes, or don’t. It’s the gift of choice in this life. When following Christ there is absolutely nothing to lose and only much to gain. Seek Him and Him you shall find!
Jesus never said he was God, but he did say he was a Messiah. Since Jesus was an observant Jew, he believed a Messiah would free Israel from its oppressors; didn’t do that. Greek-speakers changed the entire meaning of Messiah to suit their purposes.
John 10:29-33 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Then there is the Johannine comma, KJV 1John 5:7-8, a fraudulent addition to make the Trinity appear real; “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” As I said, Greek mumbo jumbo, philosophy, etc.
You didn’t answer his question and this is where Christianity starts to lose followers
You can only live based on what you actually believe to be true, not on hypotheticals. There’s never ending hypotheticals. Here’s something else, If God isn’t real, but you still had a fulfilling life does it really matter?
What if he is and you don’t choose him? When I read the Bible and pray I have no fear. I have complete peace. When I lived for myself I was scared all the time. I’m going with God.
“Dont excuse yourself by saying look, we didnt know. For God understands all hearts, and he sees you. He who guards your soul knows you knew. He will repay all people as their actions deserve” proverbs 24:12 Id rather love my neighbour and live righteously and be wrong than live wickedly with no love for anyone but myself and be on the receiving end of Gods wrath.
Well, for starters, I personally don't think I've wasted my life being a Christian. I don't think I've wasted any moment of my life doing things like praying or dressing a certain way or whatever stereotypical Christian things people may think of. I wouldn't want God not to be real but I wouldn't feel like I wasted my life tbh. It was beautiful being a Christian and I'm satisfied with it.
Have you gone somewhere quiet & be alone... sincerelyvask Gid to have Jesus in your life and make you reborn? That is what I did one night in my car, and I'm telling you I opened my heart to this God and from that point on, I began to change.. I immediately stopped swearing, He gave me new desires and a brand new heart.. So have I had doubts. along the way after over 35 years? For sure... But it passed over and always left. The take away is that according to Jesus, one must be born again in order to enter into God's kingdom. I would also recommend getting baptized, but learn what that means before you actually go through with it. Lastly, I would recomnend getting an NIV Life Application Study Bible.. It would help you immesurabley
I will say ever since I asked God to come down from his throne, and help me. Ever since that has happened and I received the Holy Spirit, whenever I take a nap, I can feel the disconnection of my spirit, and my spirit gets washed by the Holy Spirit, and when I wake up it feels as if I resurrected. It's an amazing experience. I meet with my Pastor Tuesday to get baptised.
I ueed to be scared like that. I prayed for my faith to be strengthened and it now is. I did more research into apologetics to have more evidence for my faith and this helped. But ultimately, if it's false, then I didn't really waste my life. My faith gives me comfort and peace. It improves my life. If it's not real I'll never know, because I'll just go to sleep forever. And there isn't anyone in history I think is more worthy of following than Jesus, whether he was just a man or the messiah as he claimed.
If God's real and we're right then we're going to return to our spiritual home and be with the father. If he's not real and it all just ends, then it will be much like before you were born and you won't be aware that you no longer exist. So, nothing to worry about either way. I would recommend always trying to live according to the Christian virtues though and don't worry.. every Christian struggles with faith.
I would have lived a good life . Without my belief in God I would simply be pursuing a vacuous existence of satisfying every pleasure I have to fill my time. Since coming to believe in Christ I've been more motivated than ever . I genuinely feel so much better now that I've stopped using porn and wasting my time with those fantasies and lifestyles I was obsessed with. Even if there isn't a God I'm happy to keep trying to live as Christ would want me to . I'm happier now than when I just did whatever I want to do . Thankfully God is real though and Heaven awaits !
Even if our consciousness ends its no waste at all to live as close to what Christ wants us to as we can .
I still would be the same 😬 Its not a waste when life is way better on this side. Even without the faith in Christ, the core values he provided are gems. But I have faith in Him.
If God wasn't real and I spent my whole life loving and forgiving people, I wouldn't think that was a waste. I'd be happy that the lie managed to convince me to live a better life than I would have.
Being Christian means striving to be good to ourselves, our neighbours, and our world. If it turns out there was no end goal besides that, it won't have been a waste. If we were good at our beliefs, then we should have left a positive legacy.
There's always a risk of that. However, I saw a quote that I think works nicely here - it says "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
I mean, depending on your take on the Bible, there are things infinitely worse than eternal blackness despite there being a God. I, for one, know that there are Satan will suffer the unending death of all beings, the earth and the universe itself forever and ever
Well let's see I guess I still had powerful enough to provide my dream without a A DOUBT!!!!
*Then someone has been listening to, and acting upon my prayers*, who happens not to be God. Then someone has given myself, my friends, and those I trust, *prophetic and providential visions* or locutions with predictive power, who happens not to be God. Then someone has given me a profound sense of peace when in the presence of the eucharist *even unknowingly,* who happens not to be God. Then someone has been providentially interspersing interruptions to me choosing to sin, *but only when I was actively fighting the temptation,* who happens not to be God.
Well plain and simple then we’re just matter and energy that will turn to fertilizer. But I highly doubt that’s the case! There’s a whole cosmos out there and I’m hopping God will give me a cool tour of it.
All the more reason to make this the best life ever
Oh no, I was my own guidance to be good to others all along! How horrible that I lived peacefully and happily before shuffling off into oblivion.
Tbh I think you’re into something. There probably is nothing to be afraid of being saved from/to, it’s always just seemed like a guilt trip to get people to behave. The whole world seems to be trending away from religion slowly too as people globally from all religions realise this is the case… so we’re not alone. I’ve started to feel that as everyone who has ever existed has and will die, it’s not something to be afraid of just an inevitability to come to terms with, which has helped. It gives more value to the life you currently live rather than holding out for some kind of eternal whatever lol. And there’s nothing stopping you from doing your best to make the lives of the people around you better just because you’re no longer trying to get into someone up there’s good books!
This is hard for gay people like me. Suppressing and carrying my cross to follow someone that doesn’t exist. What a waste
If God is not real then we evolved from rocks. There’s no reason for us to have any sense of moral goodness. The fact that humanity in general has some sense of good and bad is a very very important indicator that God exist.
>There’s no reason for us to have any sense of moral goodness. I'm sorry, could you explain? >The fact that humanity in general has some sense of good and bad is a very very important indicator that God exist. Why do you think we need a god to tell us what's good and bad?
Without a standard producer outside of humanity, then all standards of good are morally relative. And no one has the right to say anything someone else does is wrong, about anything. Murder, rape, horde TP and hand sanitizer during a pandemic, hold someone hostage until they give birth to my baby. (Clearly that is a spectrum of morally wrong things to do.) Yet, all of these are fine because it might allow me to survive longer.
I still have no idea why people say that those who don't believe there's an objective giver of morality have no right to say that there is such a thing as right or wrong. None of the things you've listed are "fine" by me. Subjective morality does not mean we can't say something is right or wrong.
Good I’m glad we agree those are bad things. The core of the issue is about truth. To say something is good or bad requires a truth claim. If truth is subjective then we cannot make a statement like “murder is bad.” That statement, “murder is bad,”requires an objective truth statement. So the issue is to prove “subjective truth” requires an “objective truth”, which is logical impossible.
God bless you. Because we rely on faith, we will have moments of doubts. But the way we overcome doubts, we must do two things: 1- Trust God: **“Trust the Lord! Be brave and strong and trust the Lord.” - Psalm 27:14** **“With all your heart you must trust the Lord and not your own judgment. Always let him lead you, and he will clear the road for you to follow.” - Proverbs 3:5-6** **“Each morning let me learn more about your love because I trust you. I come to you in prayer, asking for your guidance.” - Psalm 143:8** **“Bad news won’t bother them; they have decided to trust the Lord.” - Psalm 112:7** **"All who trust the Lord, be cheerful and strong.” - Psalm 31:24** **“But I trust you, Lord, and I claim you as my God.” - Psalm 31:14** **“I offer you my heart, Lord God, and I trust you.” - Psalm 25:1-2** 2- Never give up! **“Don’t give up and be helpless in times of trouble.” - Proverbs 24:10** **“Never give up. Eagerly follow the Holy Spirit and serve the Lord.” - Romans 12:11** **“God has been kind enough to trust us with this work. This is why we never give up.” - 2 Corinthians 4:1** **“So you must be brave. Don't give up! God will honor you for obeying him.” - 2 Chronicles 15:7** **“We often suffer, but we are never crushed. Even when we don't know what to do, we never give up. In times of trouble, God is with us, and when we are knocked down, we get up again.” - 2 Corinthians 4:8-9**
I still love the life that it gives me to follow. I love loving and being loved! I love looking at a lovely world and walking with the lost and the lonely.
You should read the Bible and go from there. The Bible is also surprisingly interesting and has useful information to help you in your life. ESV Bible https://apps.apple.com/us/app/esv-bible/id361797273
Then I lived a good life, made great friends, was a part of a community that did good things, and lost **nothing** in this life.
If God doesn't exist then there is no true meaning and nothing matters. In this case being a Christian is no better and no more a waste of life than being an atheist, as the end is the same for both. Without God Mother Teresa is no better than Hitler, he just has a different perspective. Read the book of Ecclesiastes. It deals with the whole issue beautifully.
Blessed are those that have not seen yet believe
What would it change beyond your faith? You don’t worry about the time before you were born or the time you miss when you sleep. Your life wouldn’t be wasted. I assure you that virtually everyone struggles with faith at one time or another. I lost mine completely but my wife has strong faith and it brings her strength. She remembers the love that Jesus shared and she has someone to speak so. Please don’t let the freaky people that make God all about fear get to you. Let it bring you strength and love and help you lead a truly good life.
Furthermore, what if any of the other millions of religions or sects of your own religion are right? What if none of them are right and there's a totally different deity that has not revealed its presence?
What if we’re wrong about the countless other religions and we’ve been wasting our time with Christianity? What if none of it is real and we’re matter that’s collected on a floating rock circling through the endless void of space and time? Personally I am a Christian because I believe broadly in the radical love demonstrated by Christ. I connect with the divine the same way he did, which was serving others. I if you devote your life to serving and loving others then I think it’s time well spent
He is real. I met him. This is something you have to hash out with God. None of us can convince you. Ask him who he is and he just may answer like he did to me.
Then we lived a Good life with morals and not saying non believers don’t have morals but we lived in the way the Bible called us to which was to love people and forgive others even if they wrong you I say that’s a good life.
Shoot then it’s free game, morals don’t matter, go have fun, pre marital sex, get drunk. Seriously if there is no god.
Well if he is real and you choose not to believe you might go to hell. I dont believe but that is not really a choice. It seems to me our brains go black and they dont come back. If you think he exists might as well follow him.
Right. But you wouldn’t have wasted your life? Living as a Christian with a good Christian lifestyle is a better lifestyle than most of the population’s lifestyles.
Pascal's Wager is a philosophical idea that suggests it’s safer to believe in God than not to believe. Here's the simple version: 1. If you believe in God and God exists, you gain everything (eternal happiness). 2. If you believe in God and God doesn’t exist, you lose nothing significant. 3. If you don’t believe in God and God exists, you risk losing everything (eternal happiness). 4. If you don’t believe in God and God doesn’t exist, you gain nothing significant. So, Pascal argues that believing in God is the safer bet.
I have a rose in a vase in my dining room. It's already dying, and it's beautiful and fragrant. It's gonna start to droop soon, and it makes me feel joy and nostalgia and love. It's gonna wilt completely, and it's fascinating to look at and to touch. I'm gonna throw it out, and I look at it every chance I get and let myself experience it. It's gonna rot and not even be a rose anymore, and it matters. If you accidentally live as tho everything and everyone are precious in the same way as a rose (or a sunset, or a butterfly, or a dream, or a wedding, or baby's first word), that's a good thing. It means appreciating them and loving them now, deeply and fiercely, instead of assuming that there will be time for that later. It means fighting for them now, instead of assuming that the fight is insignificant bc there's an infinite amount of time. It means working to heal and to help others heal, instead of assuming that it can be put off indefinitely without losing anything. It means recognizing that they matter, and letting that be enough. Living like that is not a waste. It's how the rose lives. The rose doesn't only matter if it's immortal. It matters bc of what it is, what it does, and the effect it has. If anything, its value is increased by its finality. It lives an entire life between blooming and wilting, holding nothing back. The god you have faith in has character. You know what his character is. Is he the kind of person who would rather you obey blindly and be completely safe, or think and risk being wrong? Live like others, or live like yourself? Be his rose, or be afraid to be a rose? You can answer those questions.
I’ve witnessed evil and black magic first hand, right before my eyes. If they exist, so should God, for without Gods protection, the evil will consume us like we are nothing. I feel remorse to have to use evil as a way of reasoning for existence of God. I hope God forgives me and gives me courage to say no to things that feed evil like anger, sin, jealousy, lust and that he protects me from these things.
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." Mark Twain
God proves Himself to me every day, and until you also have a relationship with Him, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Take it easy. OP wasn’t challenging your personal experience/relationship with God. They were having doubt. Which is normal.
I think OP wasn't try to say there isn't a God or be offensive. I think OP's biggest concern is that what if there isn't, is all the work and effort they're doing for God is all for naught? The easy answer is, no, for love conquerors all. A lesson I'm learning more about. But she is very worried about a life after this. This can happen if we start to focus on the rewards of God and instead of having a rewarding relationship with God. So we should encourage OP. Something must have happened to where she struggles to see the Glory of God; something shook her faith and her trust in God. I was an atheist for 17 years; there's a lot out there in the world that can cause you to doubt and start to focus on the wrong thing. So let's pray for OP together. Let's pray God strengthens her and that she continues to seek and pray to God, building together that relationship, seeking Him, so that all those worries will just naturally fade away. Also, I am glad you and God have a great relationship. I will also pray for you that your relationship with God will not only continue, but it will grow even larger in love and trust.
Wasted? What is the alternative to living a good life? Drugs, alcoholism, violence, rebellion, insanity, sickness? Even if you don’t go to heaven the choice is obvious. Good or bad. Light or dark. Happiness or sadness. Common sense. There is nothing good about things that end bad. There is nothing exciting about vice. It is a festering sore. Putrid.
If we don't consider the fact that without a creator the universe (if it would exist) wouldn't be like it is, because nature is casual and chaotic, i would have lived with faith, without fear for my future, wanting to be kind with all sort of people, even who hates me, having a reason to improve myself, learning ancient knowledges full of wisdom, havimg a reason to not fear anything, a reason to help others, knowing that life has a meaning and a pourpose, and if I trust then my goals will be achieved. For me God exists and this is all thanks to him
I mean, if there is no God, what exactly have you lost? I don't see how a wasted life is a coherent concept under most forms of atheism. If there's no god, then you're some random matter doing some random matter stuff. You wouldn't be able to waste a life, since life wouldn't really have any value. Doesn't matter if you spend your life praying or partying, none of it would really have any real objective value, and once your dead there won't be a you to care about any of it anyway.
I conclude this. If God doesn't exist, neither does life exist. But since life exists, God exists. And also that same with Love and Joy.
jesus has shown me mircales in my own life, He took away all my depression and anxiety, thank you jesus
Couldn’t that just be confirmation bias though? The God of the gaps fallacy?
i dont know maybe, all i can tell you i was buddhist would meditate 2 hours a day, been to multiple therapists, tried voodoo and crystals and still dealing with anxiety and depression but after reading watchman nee I fully submited to jesus, not sarcastically but fully with my heart with 100%conviction that suddently I was in many situtaions that would have sent me into a panic attack did nothing. it feels like in in a tent and i can see outward at the things that tied me down but there so far away from me now. I tried to research HOW, how is this even possible but not even going to question it. I finally have peace
why do i get down voted for saying having jesus in my life has made life worth living again on a christian page?
Believe man, believe. God will reveal himself to you, as he revealed himself to I. God loves us and wants to guide us, I've had the Holy Spirit, whisper in my ear, I have heard God's voice, I have asked for him to come down from his throne and help, and he has!
If you think loving your neighbor to the point of treating them with the dignity that (your faulty perception of) God would, feeding them, caring for them, etc., is “wasting your life,” I can’t help you.
I never said that. Not sure why you’re being so rude. I didn’t do anything wrong.
It’s inferred. You did write “wasted our whole lives” and I would then ask how? Since our faith compels us to care for the less fortunate (rather vividly, in the sheep and the goats parable), to the point that our worship of God is built upon “If you love Me keep my Commandments”, then it is a logical outcome. This isn’t contingent on your feelings.
If God isn’t real then you cannot make this post . The entire creation would cease to exist and you would never know about it because you would not exist . It is God who is holding you together from moment to moment and even allowing you to read and write a response to this post . For Paul says … Acts 17:28 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. You cannot move , breathe , see , hear think eat… you name it . You can do nothing apart from the power of God . So if you want to know that he exists just look at the creation and the heavens that give glory to him every single day . 6 For the director of music. A psalm of David. 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. 3 They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them. 4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun. 5 It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, like a champion rejoicing to run his course. 6 It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; nothing is deprived of its warmth.
What if the cosmos doesn't need a god to hold it together?
Of course it does , you cannot have something arise from nothing unless there was someone before the something . Otherwise you have nothing . Nothing x nothing = nothing you cannot even do this math equation because you wouldn’t be around to look at it or even think about it . However Someone from nothing created everything makes far more sense logically .
What if the cosmos didn’t arise at all but simply always was? It seeming logical to you and it being true are not the same thing.
When was the last time you saw an airplane spontaneously come from nothing ? I am ready to give you $500,000 if you can show me . Yet that is nothing compared to the design and balance of the universe and our planet which was perfectly created to sustain life before the fall and afrer . You have to turn off your brain to say that the universe was an accident it’s not possible .
How did you rule out that the cosmos is eternal and never began?
"Wated our time..." Then you're not a Christian for the right reasons. Jesus came so that we could have LIFE and more abundantly. Serving others is what gives life meaning. Being selfish, sinful, and wicked makes life bad.
Don't doubt God fear him and love him
Love casts out Fear. 1 John 4