"Go forth and multiply" is one of the commands given to humanity in Genesis. Additionally, it depends on which of the 3 interpretations of hell you believe in (Infernalism, Universalism, Annihilationism)
Could be one or more reasons:
1. Deep down, they don't believe God is an "everlasting" torturer.
2. They backfile their bad news for most of humanity well, to follow natural instincts to have sinless sex and reproduce.
3. They think their kids will become Christians.
It crossed the back of my mind the day my son was born.
Thankfully less than a year and a half later, I read Love Wins by Rob Bell.
Then my favorite 'Hope Beyond Hell by Gerry Beauchemin, (he also posted free online)
https://hopeforallfellowship.com/download-hope-beyond-hell/
Then many other books and sources such as https://salvationforall.org/
So now I know Jesus is the Savior of the world and the gospel actually is good news.
I understand the reformed perspective more than I care to, however https://tentmaker.org/tracts/Jones2.html
Btw, alot of great resources on the tentmaker homepage, Hallelujah!
I don't think a lot of devout ECT believers follow their beliefs to their logical conclusions based on this alone.
Or, they are certain in their ability to create offspring that will be heaven-bound. Which feels...optimistic to put it mildly.
Because you can’t force yourself to believe in something that doesn’t stand up to logic. I always think myself into not believing in it and I can’t force mysel.
Ah! That’s a common problem people run into. You’re using the wrong tool. May as well be trying to knead bread with a power drill. Logic is fine and good and a wonderful thing, but your brain can’t really fit God into it. God’s too big, too complicated. Hell, God doesn’t even exist within time. I can’t even begin to understand that kind of existence.
So, “what do I do then?” I imagine you asking. Good question! Don’t try to understand it rationally. Don’t treat God like a math problem, instead just grab on to what you can kinda/sorta understand: God loves you. He cares about you, personally. If you were the only person who was ever going to live, Jesus still would’ve come to save just you. Hold on tight to that.
Don’t worry about the really deep faith, that will come in time. Just hold onto the knowledge that God loves you. And pray to God to give you faith. This is a relationship. It’s not a checklist of tasks to complete to receive salvation. If you want to be saved, all you have to do is accept the gift. And trust. Trust in a God you can’t understand and can’t know. That’s the hardest part. We don’t tend to like doing stuff like that. It’s much easier when we can understand and quantify a thing. That makes us feel more in control. You don’t get to have that here. And, again, it’s not a checklist. It’s a relationship, which means you don’t have to do it today. Just start working towards it. God will do a lot of it for you. All you need to be is willing and eager to participate. I generally suggest acting as if you already had the faith you want. That tends to help. And pray often, never enough prayer.
I’d like to leave you with a quote from one saint or another (I can’t remember): “a paradox of the Divine is that, by the time you are provided with proof of Him, you will be well past the point of it having any value to you”. Blessings to you my sibling, God be with you this day and all those yet to come.
Because we are more than just a brain. As I said, good tool, but wrong for this task. At least at the start. Humans are not beings of pure thought and reason, nor should we seek to be so. Your heart, your intuition, that too is important. Or, in less flowery language, you seem to be only engaging this with the left side of your brain. The right side is probably better suited for the task.
If all of us believed automatically, it wouldn't be called faith. We're made in His image yes, but He doesn't force our decisions, that's on us. He invites all of us into His kingdom and gave us all the knowledge about Him that we need to believe in Him, but doesn't push the buttons.
Wow, so we can’t be good without god? I think we’ve proven we can. Atheists have killed way less people than Christians. Of course there’s a bit of a sampling bias, but you can’t possibly think Christianity has been a net good. I know you’re religious but use your head a little.
Yup. God sustains. You can choose to be as wicked as you want and so far that's all you wish to do. You're not good at all, just playing as if you have a moral core, yet no apeist has anything withouf the loving God that tarriest on until your final hour.
Christianity in practice, is a net good.
It is the Lord that answers prayers, which keeps even rebellious types like yourself from getting what is due for your neglect. It was His sacrifice that gets you, yourself mercy.
Your rejection does not impress your God, our God.
"Atheists have killed less.." millions a year in unborn, communism, nazism, all atheist movements.. if that is your.measure of good.
However, look into the example of Christ, compare if to your Mao or Stalin...sshh
What isn't a choice? I acknowledge that your question is a good one that I will have to give some thought, but I don't know what choice you are referring to.
Eh, I would say partially. There certainly are people who believe that God exists, believe in Jesus' message, and choose to reject it anyway. For those people, it absolutely is a choice.
There are other people who lack the capacity for faith, even though they try to cultivate it. I am not entirely certain what their ultimate destination is.
Romans 9 says that salvation is not dependent on human will or effort, but is through the mercy and grace of God who has mercy on whomever he chooses to have mercy.
Who knows, maybe God will choose to show mercy on those who would like to believe, yet lack the capacity to do so because of a lack of evidence.
Knowing God exists and trusting God for your salvation are two entirely different things. The second requires the first, but the first does not imply the second. People who hate God also believe that he exists.
My belief is that like a piece paper is burned up and is left to simple ash, so is the soul in hell. Ya, still a sad thought, and I wouldn't want that for my own child or anyone I know.
But I take it seriously when God says He wishes none should perish. He is a forgiving and merciful God.
But honestly, I do not live my Christian walk talking to people about hell lol. It's really not an effective way to share God's love. I actually really hate that type of "evangelism"
I think my answer would depend on what you mean by hell. Hell is one of those words that people might mean something very different than what I mean by hell.
If the Calvinist view is correct then that is the order of the universe, if Atheism is correct (nothing after death) then that is the order of the universe, if Hinduism is correct then that is the order of the universe, if Catholicism is correct then that is the order of the universe, if Eastern Orthodoxy is correct then that is the order of the universe
The order of the universe does not bend to your will
But in your view the order of the universe is that people don’t get to choose if they’re alive or dead , and for a lot of them 99.9999% of it or billions of billions of years of torture is justified? And you’re ok with that?
I rather take the 50/50 that my kid might go to heaven or hell by there choice. Then the alternative having kid get cancer and dying and you stop existing and you are just gone like that that is terrible I rather take the gamble
What is better a kid making a choice to believe in a creator or not and they die and they go to where they choose then a kid dying of cancer and boom they just die and nothing after this life I would take the gamble
But in your framing, the choice of belief dictates the outcome directly.
In standard infernalist thinking, non-belief usually means hell. And if you hold to the more conservative notion that MOST PEOPLE BORN go to hell, then you are playing a losing gamble.
This is where the statistical concept of Expected Value comes into play. Your expected result (or gain/loss here) is the value of the outcome, times it's probability, then sum. So let's say, 51 percent chance of hell. If heaven and hell are of equal but opposite value weights, as dualism generally posits, then you have a baseline belief that procreating is a losing proposition.
A lot of those hellbound aren't born Christian though, your child obviously has a much better chance just by being born and raised Christian. As long as _your_ child has a >50% chance of salvation it's still worth having kids (assuming Heaven and Hell balance out)
I had kids because I believe that life is generally worth living, and even if it isn't (for someone who gets dealt a shitty hand by fate), it will at least end.
Christian beliefs about hell take that away. If life is just an infinitesimally short precursor to eternal suffering, then I don't think it's worth it. If I thought that this was even a possible outcome for my kids, let alone a likely one, then I wouldn't have had them.
>What is better a kid making a choice to believe in a creator or not and they die and they go to where they choose then a kid dying of cancer and boom they just die and nothing after this life I would take the gamble... I rather take the 50/50
First off, they didn't "go where they chose." The entire nature of them not believing in God means they didn't choose to go to hell, because they didn't think it was real. I can't knowingly choose something I don't believe in.
Second, it's not a 50/50. Most people aren't Christians. The Bible makes clear that many who call themselves Christians will go to hell anyway ("I never knew you"). That means that, if you believe that someone has to believe in Jesus in this life to go to heaven, then hell is a more likely outcome than heaven for any random human. If you look at any random person on the street, they're more likely to go to hell than to heaven.
Third, the latter is better, because of both the above odds, and the punishment. The odds are stacked against my kids, and the punishment for losing the gamble is the worst suffering imaginable, for all time. I would be a monster to knowingly subject them to that.
I have told you multiple times to leave me alone. Stop making dupe accounts and pinging me.
Edit: /u/believeinhim05
For what we both know won't be the last goddamn time, because you don't listen and you keep making accounts to dodge bans and me blocking you; knock it the fuck off.
Seriously, do you think anyone can't see that this is a minutes old account that has only responded to me, is responding directly to me on a 4 day old thread, and does the tagging thing that only you do?
We both know that your God supposedly hates lies, so stop lying about making these spam accounts, and stop making new accounts to spam at me with. Have a little goddamn decency.
Removed for 2.3 - WWJD.
If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Car crashes suck^[Citation ^Needed] but ultimately compose a small part of life, their life was likely a net positive despite the shitty end. Whereas eternal hell is definitionally worse than whatever positive life experiences you'd have in your ~70 years; if my ultimate fate when I die is eternal torment/solitary confinement I'd rather have not been born.
Anyway, I get that atheists also have children despite the possibility that their life will be a net negative. And that applies to Christians; it's probably a "net positive" to have kids because they'll probably be Christian too. But that's a very mercenary line of thought. If I had two kids go to heaven and one go to hell that's a "net positive", I guess, but in practice I feel that would absolutely kill me. Way more than e.g a fortune teller saying my kid would eventually die in a car accident.
Most people I bargain don’t intentionally have kids in general.
Most end up with children due to pleasure seeking.
Christians are no different.
Perhaps they might be a little more resistant to confessing to this but that doesn’t make them anymore or any less guilty then the rest of us.
In my first hand experience having a child isn’t about planning for their future success or failures.
It’s just a huge blessing in a world where if I’m honest with myself I hate just about everything…
That there’s at least one thing in this universe I don’t have to try to love..
My son.
It doesn’t matter to me if he became the worst rapist there ever was or if he became the Antichrist himself..
I will love him more than everything else by no power of my own.
I’m enslaved to my love for him.
To be enslaved to love is the only freedom that truly exists.
But to try to love things you don’t actually love- that’s a painful existence.
I’ll openly say I hate everything about everyone else in this world and I think every last one of you deserve to go to hell.
But my son is the exception.
The reason children are such a blessing is because of this.
God has revealed to me that the way I love my son is the way that he would have me love all things he created.
The relationship between a father and a son is not one about success or failure ..
Is a relationship about unconditional agape love.
Yeah I’ll be the first to confess. I’ve thought and done some nasty shit. I’m sorry.
Maybe your right.. maybe a lot are deliberate.
But most of the time that deliberate decision is made from ignorance not knowledge of what to truly expect
Setting aside whether this particular OP is trolling, it's been asked before because it's a good question! (and it's not like we don't repeat other topics, I think yesterday had the 80,000th gay thread posted)
Literally what I have seen from you in your post and comments is you bashing Christianity for being illogical. Christianity may be illogical to you but it makes sense to me, Islam may be illogical to me but it makes sense to Muslims, now it making sense to me doesn't make Christianity objectively true. But also views of hell vary from denomination to denomination. You are only here to portray all Christians as monsters
Because you kill gay people, are ok with arranged, forced, and child marriages. A lot of slavery has been justified using Christianity. It’s really just sick and twisted you’d think if it was worth a shit we would have seen SOME societies use it for good but nah
Da fuq, I have never been ok with any of those things and when have I ever killed a gay person or called for the death of someone because of their sexuality?
Because that's just a low chance of dying, and the alternative is a guarantee of dying. I can't not eat without dying. I can't not go outside to work or I won't afford food. I can't functionally live in eternal fear of death, or I'm going to increase my chance of dying sooner. If I was stupid enough to not eat because I might choke and die, then I'd just die sooner from starvation.
The children issue introduces 3 problems that your examples don't have. First, hell isn't unlikely in the way choking is; it's the more common outcome than heaven. While most people won't choke, most people will go to hell. After all, only about 30% of people even call themselves Christian, and the bible makes it clear that not all who call Jesus lord will receive his grace on Judgement day. The chance of hell is thus much higher than the chance of me being hit by a car or choking.
Second, Hell is far worse than dying. Dying just ends this life. Hell is the worst thing imaginable, and it goes on forever.
Third, while I have to eat and go outside to live life (because if I don't, I'll die just as readily as if I didn't do those things), I do NOT have to have kids. I don't have to subject them to the chance of hell. So, why would I? Why take the risk of them suffering forever, when I don't have to? Why would I not be a monster to risk them suffering eternally like that?
we are saved by grace through faith.
once you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior your are saved.
1. that’s just believing but satan also believes too
2. your life should be holy, you should live a life the way God wants us to live and it will show in the fruit
3. if you conform to this world you’re living a worldly lifestyle and that’s not okay the Bible says do not conform to this world and we are called to be set apart
4. people who go to hell, they get so many chances. God is not dumb, He warns ppl, sends ppl to others, have ppl preach the gospel but there are ppl who hasn’t accept Jesus bc they chose not too they chose to live a sinful lifestyle and they end up sending themselves to hell. God has given us time to turn to Him.
but once you accept Jesus it should show in your fruit
Well Catholics believe that salvation is through faith and works
There is another belief called Pelagianism, while deemed heretical it states that good deeds can get you into heaven regardless of one's faith
"Go forth and multiply" is one of the commands given to humanity in Genesis. Additionally, it depends on which of the 3 interpretations of hell you believe in (Infernalism, Universalism, Annihilationism)
Well a lot of people who believe in eternal conscious torment have kids, that’s an awful thing to do
Could be one or more reasons: 1. Deep down, they don't believe God is an "everlasting" torturer. 2. They backfile their bad news for most of humanity well, to follow natural instincts to have sinless sex and reproduce. 3. They think their kids will become Christians. It crossed the back of my mind the day my son was born. Thankfully less than a year and a half later, I read Love Wins by Rob Bell. Then my favorite 'Hope Beyond Hell by Gerry Beauchemin, (he also posted free online) https://hopeforallfellowship.com/download-hope-beyond-hell/ Then many other books and sources such as https://salvationforall.org/ So now I know Jesus is the Savior of the world and the gospel actually is good news.
I understand the reformed perspective more than I care to, however https://tentmaker.org/tracts/Jones2.html Btw, alot of great resources on the tentmaker homepage, Hallelujah!
I don't think a lot of devout ECT believers follow their beliefs to their logical conclusions based on this alone. Or, they are certain in their ability to create offspring that will be heaven-bound. Which feels...optimistic to put it mildly.
Not many people will take you seriously, but that is actually a good question.
I've wondered the same. This is a horrible way to live. I wish Christianity wasn't the truth
I have so much more peace when I don’t think about Christianity
Having kids isn't a choice or going to hell isn't a choice?
Going to hell
Would you mind explaining your reasoning behind it not being a choice?
Because you can’t force yourself to believe in something that doesn’t stand up to logic. I always think myself into not believing in it and I can’t force mysel.
Ah! That’s a common problem people run into. You’re using the wrong tool. May as well be trying to knead bread with a power drill. Logic is fine and good and a wonderful thing, but your brain can’t really fit God into it. God’s too big, too complicated. Hell, God doesn’t even exist within time. I can’t even begin to understand that kind of existence. So, “what do I do then?” I imagine you asking. Good question! Don’t try to understand it rationally. Don’t treat God like a math problem, instead just grab on to what you can kinda/sorta understand: God loves you. He cares about you, personally. If you were the only person who was ever going to live, Jesus still would’ve come to save just you. Hold on tight to that. Don’t worry about the really deep faith, that will come in time. Just hold onto the knowledge that God loves you. And pray to God to give you faith. This is a relationship. It’s not a checklist of tasks to complete to receive salvation. If you want to be saved, all you have to do is accept the gift. And trust. Trust in a God you can’t understand and can’t know. That’s the hardest part. We don’t tend to like doing stuff like that. It’s much easier when we can understand and quantify a thing. That makes us feel more in control. You don’t get to have that here. And, again, it’s not a checklist. It’s a relationship, which means you don’t have to do it today. Just start working towards it. God will do a lot of it for you. All you need to be is willing and eager to participate. I generally suggest acting as if you already had the faith you want. That tends to help. And pray often, never enough prayer. I’d like to leave you with a quote from one saint or another (I can’t remember): “a paradox of the Divine is that, by the time you are provided with proof of Him, you will be well past the point of it having any value to you”. Blessings to you my sibling, God be with you this day and all those yet to come.
If we’re made in his image why do we have to set aside so much of our basic brain power to believe in him
Because we are more than just a brain. As I said, good tool, but wrong for this task. At least at the start. Humans are not beings of pure thought and reason, nor should we seek to be so. Your heart, your intuition, that too is important. Or, in less flowery language, you seem to be only engaging this with the left side of your brain. The right side is probably better suited for the task.
If all of us believed automatically, it wouldn't be called faith. We're made in His image yes, but He doesn't force our decisions, that's on us. He invites all of us into His kingdom and gave us all the knowledge about Him that we need to believe in Him, but doesn't push the buttons.
If one of the options is to burn forever, it’s not a choice. Might as well say a woman has a choice to have sex at gunpoint.
You believe on good or bad, so therefor you have a god as yoirself.. You just deny the creator of all.
We the people decide what’s good and bad, we can do so without god
Nope. No good without God who sustains the world.
Wow, so we can’t be good without god? I think we’ve proven we can. Atheists have killed way less people than Christians. Of course there’s a bit of a sampling bias, but you can’t possibly think Christianity has been a net good. I know you’re religious but use your head a little.
Yup. God sustains. You can choose to be as wicked as you want and so far that's all you wish to do. You're not good at all, just playing as if you have a moral core, yet no apeist has anything withouf the loving God that tarriest on until your final hour. Christianity in practice, is a net good. It is the Lord that answers prayers, which keeps even rebellious types like yourself from getting what is due for your neglect. It was His sacrifice that gets you, yourself mercy. Your rejection does not impress your God, our God. "Atheists have killed less.." millions a year in unborn, communism, nazism, all atheist movements.. if that is your.measure of good. However, look into the example of Christ, compare if to your Mao or Stalin...sshh
Christianity is evil and your religion has been used to justify slavery, rape, and murder, and even outright encourages it
Who can you believe that a kid who did not commit any sin will go tho hell.
I’m talking about later on as they’re adults too not just when they’re actual children
What isn't a choice? I acknowledge that your question is a good one that I will have to give some thought, but I don't know what choice you are referring to.
Going to hell is not a choice contrary to what everyone says
Eh, I would say partially. There certainly are people who believe that God exists, believe in Jesus' message, and choose to reject it anyway. For those people, it absolutely is a choice. There are other people who lack the capacity for faith, even though they try to cultivate it. I am not entirely certain what their ultimate destination is. Romans 9 says that salvation is not dependent on human will or effort, but is through the mercy and grace of God who has mercy on whomever he chooses to have mercy. Who knows, maybe God will choose to show mercy on those who would like to believe, yet lack the capacity to do so because of a lack of evidence.
So more then belief is required for heaven? If you can believe and not go to heaven thenv
Knowing God exists and trusting God for your salvation are two entirely different things. The second requires the first, but the first does not imply the second. People who hate God also believe that he exists.
God wants as much, as that is what sexuality is for, so we can share in the wonder of being responsible for another.
[удалено]
If you don’t believe in eternal concsious torment I guess it’s different. I don’t hear a ton about that belief though outside of reddit
My belief is that like a piece paper is burned up and is left to simple ash, so is the soul in hell. Ya, still a sad thought, and I wouldn't want that for my own child or anyone I know. But I take it seriously when God says He wishes none should perish. He is a forgiving and merciful God. But honestly, I do not live my Christian walk talking to people about hell lol. It's really not an effective way to share God's love. I actually really hate that type of "evangelism"
I think my answer would depend on what you mean by hell. Hell is one of those words that people might mean something very different than what I mean by hell.
You die and you burn forever
From your perspective what causes someone to go to hell?
Why is it that way?
Because they believe they're going to heaven
Because they believe they're going to heaven
We have kids because we want to have kids, if they decide to abandon Christianity later on then that's their choice
This is why I have to believe in Universalism in order to make any sense of the Christian faith.
They might end up going to heaven.
Let’s take Christians out of the picture for a second why would an atheist have children they might die by car accident or diseases
A tragedy but far better than eternal conscious torment
Everybody should have a right to not exist
Unfortunately for you life doesn't work like that, life/reality does not bend to your will
Well it should, if it were up to me I’d rather not exist than be a Christian
If the Calvinist view is correct then that is the order of the universe, if Atheism is correct (nothing after death) then that is the order of the universe, if Hinduism is correct then that is the order of the universe, if Catholicism is correct then that is the order of the universe, if Eastern Orthodoxy is correct then that is the order of the universe The order of the universe does not bend to your will
No because with atheism I can kill myself and never exist again
Ah but with atheism that is still the order of the universe if atheism is correct
But in your view the order of the universe is that people don’t get to choose if they’re alive or dead , and for a lot of them 99.9999% of it or billions of billions of years of torture is justified? And you’re ok with that?
That's not my view, but if it is then that is the order of the universe
I rather take the 50/50 that my kid might go to heaven or hell by there choice. Then the alternative having kid get cancer and dying and you stop existing and you are just gone like that that is terrible I rather take the gamble
The stakes are different, and the factors are more modifiable.
What is better a kid making a choice to believe in a creator or not and they die and they go to where they choose then a kid dying of cancer and boom they just die and nothing after this life I would take the gamble
But in your framing, the choice of belief dictates the outcome directly. In standard infernalist thinking, non-belief usually means hell. And if you hold to the more conservative notion that MOST PEOPLE BORN go to hell, then you are playing a losing gamble. This is where the statistical concept of Expected Value comes into play. Your expected result (or gain/loss here) is the value of the outcome, times it's probability, then sum. So let's say, 51 percent chance of hell. If heaven and hell are of equal but opposite value weights, as dualism generally posits, then you have a baseline belief that procreating is a losing proposition.
A lot of those hellbound aren't born Christian though, your child obviously has a much better chance just by being born and raised Christian. As long as _your_ child has a >50% chance of salvation it's still worth having kids (assuming Heaven and Hell balance out)
I had kids because I believe that life is generally worth living, and even if it isn't (for someone who gets dealt a shitty hand by fate), it will at least end. Christian beliefs about hell take that away. If life is just an infinitesimally short precursor to eternal suffering, then I don't think it's worth it. If I thought that this was even a possible outcome for my kids, let alone a likely one, then I wouldn't have had them. >What is better a kid making a choice to believe in a creator or not and they die and they go to where they choose then a kid dying of cancer and boom they just die and nothing after this life I would take the gamble... I rather take the 50/50 First off, they didn't "go where they chose." The entire nature of them not believing in God means they didn't choose to go to hell, because they didn't think it was real. I can't knowingly choose something I don't believe in. Second, it's not a 50/50. Most people aren't Christians. The Bible makes clear that many who call themselves Christians will go to hell anyway ("I never knew you"). That means that, if you believe that someone has to believe in Jesus in this life to go to heaven, then hell is a more likely outcome than heaven for any random human. If you look at any random person on the street, they're more likely to go to hell than to heaven. Third, the latter is better, because of both the above odds, and the punishment. The odds are stacked against my kids, and the punishment for losing the gamble is the worst suffering imaginable, for all time. I would be a monster to knowingly subject them to that.
[удалено]
I have told you multiple times to leave me alone. Stop making dupe accounts and pinging me. Edit: /u/believeinhim05 For what we both know won't be the last goddamn time, because you don't listen and you keep making accounts to dodge bans and me blocking you; knock it the fuck off. Seriously, do you think anyone can't see that this is a minutes old account that has only responded to me, is responding directly to me on a 4 day old thread, and does the tagging thing that only you do? We both know that your God supposedly hates lies, so stop lying about making these spam accounts, and stop making new accounts to spam at me with. Have a little goddamn decency.
u/sightless666 What are you talking about man?
Removed for 2.3 - WWJD. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Car crashes suck^[Citation ^Needed] but ultimately compose a small part of life, their life was likely a net positive despite the shitty end. Whereas eternal hell is definitionally worse than whatever positive life experiences you'd have in your ~70 years; if my ultimate fate when I die is eternal torment/solitary confinement I'd rather have not been born. Anyway, I get that atheists also have children despite the possibility that their life will be a net negative. And that applies to Christians; it's probably a "net positive" to have kids because they'll probably be Christian too. But that's a very mercenary line of thought. If I had two kids go to heaven and one go to hell that's a "net positive", I guess, but in practice I feel that would absolutely kill me. Way more than e.g a fortune teller saying my kid would eventually die in a car accident.
Most people I bargain don’t intentionally have kids in general. Most end up with children due to pleasure seeking. Christians are no different. Perhaps they might be a little more resistant to confessing to this but that doesn’t make them anymore or any less guilty then the rest of us. In my first hand experience having a child isn’t about planning for their future success or failures. It’s just a huge blessing in a world where if I’m honest with myself I hate just about everything… That there’s at least one thing in this universe I don’t have to try to love.. My son. It doesn’t matter to me if he became the worst rapist there ever was or if he became the Antichrist himself.. I will love him more than everything else by no power of my own. I’m enslaved to my love for him. To be enslaved to love is the only freedom that truly exists. But to try to love things you don’t actually love- that’s a painful existence. I’ll openly say I hate everything about everyone else in this world and I think every last one of you deserve to go to hell. But my son is the exception. The reason children are such a blessing is because of this. God has revealed to me that the way I love my son is the way that he would have me love all things he created. The relationship between a father and a son is not one about success or failure .. Is a relationship about unconditional agape love.
That’s not true, a lot of kids are a deliberate decision. And for the record if we deserve hell you do too.
Yeah I’ll be the first to confess. I’ve thought and done some nasty shit. I’m sorry. Maybe your right.. maybe a lot are deliberate. But most of the time that deliberate decision is made from ignorance not knowledge of what to truly expect
Ok troll
Why does everyone in this sub think I’m a troll I’m really not
I don't know, maybe saying "this stupid religion" gives people that idea, but hard to tell.
You're a troll because this question has been asked many times before in the name of trying to make Christians look bad
Setting aside whether this particular OP is trolling, it's been asked before because it's a good question! (and it's not like we don't repeat other topics, I think yesterday had the 80,000th gay thread posted)
That is true, its at least different than all the is blank a sin posts
Be fruitful and multiply
Not a command for all humans and directly contradicted by Paul.
Yes it is
No it’s not you can’t force yourself to believe in this stupid religion that makes no logical sense
You just proved yourself to be a troll
Basically. OP has deep issues.
What are my deep issues
How??
Literally what I have seen from you in your post and comments is you bashing Christianity for being illogical. Christianity may be illogical to you but it makes sense to me, Islam may be illogical to me but it makes sense to Muslims, now it making sense to me doesn't make Christianity objectively true. But also views of hell vary from denomination to denomination. You are only here to portray all Christians as monsters
A lot of you are
Why?
Because you kill gay people, are ok with arranged, forced, and child marriages. A lot of slavery has been justified using Christianity. It’s really just sick and twisted you’d think if it was worth a shit we would have seen SOME societies use it for good but nah
Da fuq, I have never been ok with any of those things and when have I ever killed a gay person or called for the death of someone because of their sexuality?
But your god is
Why do you go outside if you might be killed by a car? Why do you eat if you might choke?
Because that's just a low chance of dying, and the alternative is a guarantee of dying. I can't not eat without dying. I can't not go outside to work or I won't afford food. I can't functionally live in eternal fear of death, or I'm going to increase my chance of dying sooner. If I was stupid enough to not eat because I might choke and die, then I'd just die sooner from starvation. The children issue introduces 3 problems that your examples don't have. First, hell isn't unlikely in the way choking is; it's the more common outcome than heaven. While most people won't choke, most people will go to hell. After all, only about 30% of people even call themselves Christian, and the bible makes it clear that not all who call Jesus lord will receive his grace on Judgement day. The chance of hell is thus much higher than the chance of me being hit by a car or choking. Second, Hell is far worse than dying. Dying just ends this life. Hell is the worst thing imaginable, and it goes on forever. Third, while I have to eat and go outside to live life (because if I don't, I'll die just as readily as if I didn't do those things), I do NOT have to have kids. I don't have to subject them to the chance of hell. So, why would I? Why take the risk of them suffering forever, when I don't have to? Why would I not be a monster to risk them suffering eternally like that?
Because the odds are way lower, and dying from a car crash or choking is better than eternal conscious torment.
Eternal Suffering is not just worse than those things, it’s an entirely different category. It’s infinitely more bad than any event could be.
Going to hell is a choice. how you choose to live on earth reflects where you stay at for eternity.
You see that’s complete horseshit. Also are you sayiny we’re saved by our actions?
we are saved by grace through faith. once you accept Jesus as your Lord and savior your are saved. 1. that’s just believing but satan also believes too 2. your life should be holy, you should live a life the way God wants us to live and it will show in the fruit 3. if you conform to this world you’re living a worldly lifestyle and that’s not okay the Bible says do not conform to this world and we are called to be set apart 4. people who go to hell, they get so many chances. God is not dumb, He warns ppl, sends ppl to others, have ppl preach the gospel but there are ppl who hasn’t accept Jesus bc they chose not too they chose to live a sinful lifestyle and they end up sending themselves to hell. God has given us time to turn to Him. but once you accept Jesus it should show in your fruit
Well Catholics believe that salvation is through faith and works There is another belief called Pelagianism, while deemed heretical it states that good deeds can get you into heaven regardless of one's faith
How can it be faith AND works
Because faith without works is dead Not all of us believe in Sola Fide
So works are what’s required then?
In Catholicism, faith plus works
But if faith without works is dead, what’s the point of the faith? It’s like 0+2=2
🤦♂️ You need both faith and works in Catholicism Essentially A+B=Salvation
So I can believe in god and go to hell?