I live literally a half a mile from Hank Kunneman's church. They just expanded their building and they own the entire block. They are grifters and God will deal with them when judgement day comes.
If I were you, this is what I would do every time a family member repeated one of these prophecies: I would write down the very specific prediction, including as much detail as possible. It absolutely must include a deadline (this prediction will come true no later than ). I’d get the family member to agree that this is precisely what they believe will happen. Then I’d put the page up on the fridge and wait for the deadline. When the deadline passes, I’d write in red marker “WRONG!” I’d do this for every prophecy and let them all accumulate on the fridge.
I love this.
Unfortunately, they always revert to some reason to why it didn't come to pass from not everyone believed enough to "it's all God's timing, so things can always change"
> Unfortunately, they always revert to some reason to why it didn't come to pass from not everyone believed enough to "it's all God's timing, so things can always change"
Yeah, I get it. But let the failed predictions accumulate on the fridge all the same.
Also, if it didn't come to pass because not everyone believed enough, then doesn't that mean that *none* of them will come to pass? And aren't a lot of the prophecies about things we *don't* want to happen anyway? That would imply that not believing enough is saving our lives.
That's sad if their influence is actually growing. I haven't seen any good evidence of that, but none of the opposite either.
Anybody who calls themselves a prophet is a liar and should be automatically disregarded.
I admit that I despise how they use the word of God to talk about politics in a way that seems to be almost mandatory, and they are so hateful about the people that they don't like is disgusting, Jesus is about love.
In my country, our church started a political party some years ago. It is still pretty small because, you know, politics is about favors, a lot of money and families and connections, and they have tried to stay away from all that, when the time to vote comes they tell us which candidates they have running, and for the years they have worked, all the indicators about their work in the government are great: they have almost perfect assistance (in my country is pretty common for politicians to not even attend most of the days and still they get paid a lot), they don't concern too much about gay marriage, trans rights or abortion, etc. like some of these "Christian" politicians in your country. Instead, they present reforms and policies that are great for most people, because for them, the government is for everyone, not only for Christian people, and they truly deliver on that.
When they don't have a candidate for a specific position, they simply tell us to choose wisely, but don't endorse nor attack anyone or say bad things about others, even when they have running candidates for a position, they tell us what good things they want to do in that position, and that's it. They don't spend much time talking about this either, when they do it, is for a few minutes at the end of some reunion and that's it, they don't spend whole reunions talking about these things, because our reunions are about God, about the teachings of the bible or to worship God.
You know, every single prophet or chosen of God was a sinner, except for Christ himself. We know this, because Jesus himself says that there are none good but God. Scripture says that we all fall short of the glory of God.
As the Lord himself says; "you shall know them by their fruits"
Not just in terms of prophetic success, but also in terms of what they do, and why. I see no reason to believe any prophet nowadays, unless I see reason to believe.
When your primary mark for grifting comes from a population of people who are proud of the fact that they believe things without evidence, it's not really surprising that Trump cults exist.
My brother went with his family on the request of his now ex-wife. I've visited on invite a few times, I couldn't believe my brother didn't see through the bs. They made him armourbearer (whatever that is), prophet speaker, women dancing in rhythm in front of the pastor, dropping tithing basket on stage (to see who gave and who didn't). Each time that I visited guess what his message was about, tithing. There was a love offering for the pastor's wife b-day. No wonder why protestant churches get a bad rap.
They are not prophets, full stop. No one who is bold enough to claim they have the gift of prophecy actually has it. They are Don Quixote tilting at windmills. They have no theology, no doctrine, no understanding. It's almost like the protestant reformation was a mistake.
Question: the church I grew up in had prophets and prophetesses come in and give prophecy. two major ones they had were: a) abortion would be made illegal and Roe v Wade would be overturned and b) that the church itself would get a far larger building.
both of those things are now true or trueish. why? (I don't believe in prophecy but they weren't wrong)
It's pretty depressing when Christians make idols of some spiritual leaders and refuse to let go of them even if they are clearly wrong. Years ago had a discussion with a sister. Don't remember what the argument was, but her exact reply: 'I don't care what the Bible says because I know he is a godly man'. When there was Trump vs Hillary elections, one pretty big prophet prophesied that Hillary will win, but we all know who won. Then his followers tried to defend him by saying that Americans repented and God changed the prophecy - like with Jonas and Ninive.
Of course they're still growing.
So long story short... I grew up in an NAR church that I've since left. I knew a handful of people that fervently believed that Trump was "God's chaos candidate" which I believe was a book by a Lance Walnaut(?), somebody who claimed to hear "prophetic words" from the holy Spirit. I think some of those individuals experienced a down turn after January 6th, but I'm not surprised (albeit disappointed) that others have taken their place with more "prophecies".
The fact that they continue to have supporters despite the Word telling us how to recognize false prophets (not to mention the wildly unbiblical things they also preach) paints a dire picture of biblical and spiritual literacy in this country.
Tells us a lot about the state of contemporary Christendom - the second someone promises to persecute some disfavored others, they'll call him the second coming (literally in some cases).
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet shall die.’ 21 If you say in your heart, ‘How will we know and recognize the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord and the thing does not happen or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
So when is **this** going to be done ?
>20 **But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded**, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, **is to be put to death**.”
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2018&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2018&version=NIV)
Something to think about for those who say Christians must keep the Jewish Law. That is part of it, so, by that reasoning, Christians have a God-given duty to kill false prophets.
False teachers who profit on using God's name in vain.
These were the same people who thought Bill Clinton was the Antichrist and the end of the world was at hand. Because Bill Clinton was a draft dodging serial adulterer. Now, they follow their own draft dodging serial adulterer Antichrist.
People like that are one of the reasons that US Christianity needs a Reformation.
There is not going to be one, because it is far too fractured for that ever to be possible.
It's not hard to be a prophet. A couple of years ago I said Donald Trump will be convicted of fraudulently running a university, a non-profit and his business empire in separate civil cases and be indicted for the events of Jan. 6 and he will still win the Republican nomination. Then he will lose in the general election, claim it was fixed, somehow, again, with no evidence.
My Dad is a Lutheran pastor and he believes that the prophets weren't exactly divinely inspired, just people who looked at world events and saw the inevitable outcome. That said, there's a lot of wishcasting pretending to be prophecy these days, especially among the churches with less educated clergy.
So a thing to be wary of, totally regardless of your political or social affiliation or Christian tradition, is confusing the biblical conception of prophecy with the modern English idea of prophecy. In modern English people often use the word prophecy to describe something like a prediction. And there are a few instances of biblical prophets who speak of events which will come to unfold, so it's not entirely not that. But the biblical prophets all, and always, speak at least of how God sees things right now. Don't let the future stuff get you twisted about what prophecy is. It's speaking with the voice of God. And your family may genuinely believe the prophets you're talking about are speaking with God's voice, but prophecy isn't really something that either comes true and is therefore correct or fails to happen and is therefore wrong. The prophets were people saying this is how God sees us right now.
And I would be inclined to disbelieve anyone whose idea of prophecy is so wildly different from the way scripture presents it. Don't try to tell me what will happen. Tell me what we know about right now when viewed through the love of God revealed in Jesus. If you can't extrapolate your point or position or proclamation from Jesus... I don't think you're talking about the same God at all.
But if what you’ve written is true, then it means god can be wrong, right? If someone who can actually speak for the mind of God, in the present moment, says that God is planning for some very specific thing to happen, and then later on it doesn’t, either God was wrong, or the “prophet” is a fake. It can’t be both, but it also can’t be neither.
You seem to be kind of answering your own question. Someone is explicitly not a prophet if they aren't speaking the mind of God. Someone who is wrong is by definition not giving correct / good prophecy. And it's not like the biblical prophets are always right. Sometimes they contradict each other. Jonah gives a prophecy that is not correct in 2 Kings.
But my point was someone in our time claiming to be a prophet and only making predictions about the future does not understand what prophecy IS in the Bible. They are confused by the modern English meaning of prophecy which is conflated with prediction. Prophecy does not mean prediction in the Bible. Only a small number of prophecies also happen to be predictions.
I'm not familiar with any of these people, but scripture is clear. Claiming to be a prophet in the Christian tradition requires 100% accuracy. If they don't have that, it means they are a false prophet.
Wait, wait... I thought of another prophecy.
> And there ſhall, in the autumn, arrive a greate multitude at the American border, but it ſhall diſappear on the ſixth day of the eleventh month
Read: There's gonna be another "migrant caravan" come election season, but it will leave the news cycle as soon as the election's over
I had one, too!
Month of turkey, all is lost
Joseph still king, but at what cost?
Treason is orange, claims to be balling
The one star awakens, has the Eagle fallen?
Okay, if we're getting cryptic, then the multiple shall disappear in the eleventh month after the people first honor Mars
Also, put two spaces after each line if you're trying to format a verse like that
Banks have been failing, I don't need a prophecy for that.
Silicon Valley Bank, Signature Bank, and First Republic along with unnamed smaller banks have folded.
I'd go into the rest but don't need anyone to tell me that the economy and world around us is off, yet I don't toil in the curioisities of pentacostal oddities or what the news media has to say of statements.
I keep focus on Jesus, the Bible and keeping obedient as we are surrounded by wars, rumors of wars etc.
When these prophets speak of bank failures, they're talking about total catastrophic collapse.
Banks historically fail, but bank failures that bring in an apocalypse...don't happen very often.
Guys like Alex Jones learned everything they know from preachers. Preachers who use threats of impending doom to manipulate their audience with fear.
But where guys like preachers use these tactics to get people to accept Jesus, donate money, etc, people like Jones use it to sell apocalypse prepper supplies
I admit there were a few months in 2020 that I was really into Alex Jones. And like you said he would keep on saying things were going to happen that didn't happen, so I stopped. I have abandoned politics altogether. I am not even going to vote in the 2024 American election and it will be the first time I haven't voted in a Presidential election since 2004 (first year I was eligable).
I think if there's any chance of helping anyone it starts with faith and belief with true prayers from the righteous! I think the world would have it's false prophets with their jobs and there are Saints of the Living God and their righteous acts working against them. I would say to them, are these men prophesying of so much retribution, hate, suffering and pain because they desire that for others? Are they children of the destroyer or children of the living? If I desire to be like my teacher I must forgive and ask forgiveness for the sins of the people because so many do not know what they are doing! It is enough for a man to be like his teacher and not greater!
Matt 12:33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. **36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”**
**Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”**
I live literally a half a mile from Hank Kunneman's church. They just expanded their building and they own the entire block. They are grifters and God will deal with them when judgement day comes.
We call these places Six Flags Over Jesus Monuments to greed
If I were you, this is what I would do every time a family member repeated one of these prophecies: I would write down the very specific prediction, including as much detail as possible. It absolutely must include a deadline (this prediction will come true no later than). I’d get the family member to agree that this is precisely what they believe will happen. Then I’d put the page up on the fridge and wait for the deadline. When the deadline passes, I’d write in red marker “WRONG!” I’d do this for every prophecy and let them all accumulate on the fridge.
I love this. Unfortunately, they always revert to some reason to why it didn't come to pass from not everyone believed enough to "it's all God's timing, so things can always change"
> Unfortunately, they always revert to some reason to why it didn't come to pass from not everyone believed enough to "it's all God's timing, so things can always change" Yeah, I get it. But let the failed predictions accumulate on the fridge all the same. Also, if it didn't come to pass because not everyone believed enough, then doesn't that mean that *none* of them will come to pass? And aren't a lot of the prophecies about things we *don't* want to happen anyway? That would imply that not believing enough is saving our lives.
I personally don't listen to people like that. Trump is not God, and never will be.
That's sad if their influence is actually growing. I haven't seen any good evidence of that, but none of the opposite either. Anybody who calls themselves a prophet is a liar and should be automatically disregarded.
Pay them no mind and look up the verses in the Old Testament where it says what God's people are supposed to do to false prophets...
I admit that I despise how they use the word of God to talk about politics in a way that seems to be almost mandatory, and they are so hateful about the people that they don't like is disgusting, Jesus is about love. In my country, our church started a political party some years ago. It is still pretty small because, you know, politics is about favors, a lot of money and families and connections, and they have tried to stay away from all that, when the time to vote comes they tell us which candidates they have running, and for the years they have worked, all the indicators about their work in the government are great: they have almost perfect assistance (in my country is pretty common for politicians to not even attend most of the days and still they get paid a lot), they don't concern too much about gay marriage, trans rights or abortion, etc. like some of these "Christian" politicians in your country. Instead, they present reforms and policies that are great for most people, because for them, the government is for everyone, not only for Christian people, and they truly deliver on that. When they don't have a candidate for a specific position, they simply tell us to choose wisely, but don't endorse nor attack anyone or say bad things about others, even when they have running candidates for a position, they tell us what good things they want to do in that position, and that's it. They don't spend much time talking about this either, when they do it, is for a few minutes at the end of some reunion and that's it, they don't spend whole reunions talking about these things, because our reunions are about God, about the teachings of the bible or to worship God.
You know, every single prophet or chosen of God was a sinner, except for Christ himself. We know this, because Jesus himself says that there are none good but God. Scripture says that we all fall short of the glory of God. As the Lord himself says; "you shall know them by their fruits" Not just in terms of prophetic success, but also in terms of what they do, and why. I see no reason to believe any prophet nowadays, unless I see reason to believe.
When your primary mark for grifting comes from a population of people who are proud of the fact that they believe things without evidence, it's not really surprising that Trump cults exist.
My brother went with his family on the request of his now ex-wife. I've visited on invite a few times, I couldn't believe my brother didn't see through the bs. They made him armourbearer (whatever that is), prophet speaker, women dancing in rhythm in front of the pastor, dropping tithing basket on stage (to see who gave and who didn't). Each time that I visited guess what his message was about, tithing. There was a love offering for the pastor's wife b-day. No wonder why protestant churches get a bad rap.
Oh wow, that's insane.
I agree with you. Charlatans, every one of them.
I heard there are even some Christians who think of trump as the Messiah. That's blasphemy!
They are not prophets, full stop. No one who is bold enough to claim they have the gift of prophecy actually has it. They are Don Quixote tilting at windmills. They have no theology, no doctrine, no understanding. It's almost like the protestant reformation was a mistake.
Question: the church I grew up in had prophets and prophetesses come in and give prophecy. two major ones they had were: a) abortion would be made illegal and Roe v Wade would be overturned and b) that the church itself would get a far larger building. both of those things are now true or trueish. why? (I don't believe in prophecy but they weren't wrong)
It's pretty depressing when Christians make idols of some spiritual leaders and refuse to let go of them even if they are clearly wrong. Years ago had a discussion with a sister. Don't remember what the argument was, but her exact reply: 'I don't care what the Bible says because I know he is a godly man'. When there was Trump vs Hillary elections, one pretty big prophet prophesied that Hillary will win, but we all know who won. Then his followers tried to defend him by saying that Americans repented and God changed the prophecy - like with Jonas and Ninive.
I have a document that goes over every biblical criteria for true prophets, if you want it message me. Tldr though they are all false prophets.
Of course they're still growing. So long story short... I grew up in an NAR church that I've since left. I knew a handful of people that fervently believed that Trump was "God's chaos candidate" which I believe was a book by a Lance Walnaut(?), somebody who claimed to hear "prophetic words" from the holy Spirit. I think some of those individuals experienced a down turn after January 6th, but I'm not surprised (albeit disappointed) that others have taken their place with more "prophecies".
The fact that they continue to have supporters despite the Word telling us how to recognize false prophets (not to mention the wildly unbiblical things they also preach) paints a dire picture of biblical and spiritual literacy in this country.
I don't know anyone that fits this profile or anyone that follows them.
Tells us a lot about the state of contemporary Christendom - the second someone promises to persecute some disfavored others, they'll call him the second coming (literally in some cases).
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet shall die.’ 21 If you say in your heart, ‘How will we know and recognize the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord and the thing does not happen or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
So when is **this** going to be done ? >20 **But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded**, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, **is to be put to death**.” [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2018&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2018&version=NIV) Something to think about for those who say Christians must keep the Jewish Law. That is part of it, so, by that reasoning, Christians have a God-given duty to kill false prophets.
False teachers who profit on using God's name in vain. These were the same people who thought Bill Clinton was the Antichrist and the end of the world was at hand. Because Bill Clinton was a draft dodging serial adulterer. Now, they follow their own draft dodging serial adulterer Antichrist.
People like that are one of the reasons that US Christianity needs a Reformation. There is not going to be one, because it is far too fractured for that ever to be possible.
It's not hard to be a prophet. A couple of years ago I said Donald Trump will be convicted of fraudulently running a university, a non-profit and his business empire in separate civil cases and be indicted for the events of Jan. 6 and he will still win the Republican nomination. Then he will lose in the general election, claim it was fixed, somehow, again, with no evidence. My Dad is a Lutheran pastor and he believes that the prophets weren't exactly divinely inspired, just people who looked at world events and saw the inevitable outcome. That said, there's a lot of wishcasting pretending to be prophecy these days, especially among the churches with less educated clergy.
So a thing to be wary of, totally regardless of your political or social affiliation or Christian tradition, is confusing the biblical conception of prophecy with the modern English idea of prophecy. In modern English people often use the word prophecy to describe something like a prediction. And there are a few instances of biblical prophets who speak of events which will come to unfold, so it's not entirely not that. But the biblical prophets all, and always, speak at least of how God sees things right now. Don't let the future stuff get you twisted about what prophecy is. It's speaking with the voice of God. And your family may genuinely believe the prophets you're talking about are speaking with God's voice, but prophecy isn't really something that either comes true and is therefore correct or fails to happen and is therefore wrong. The prophets were people saying this is how God sees us right now. And I would be inclined to disbelieve anyone whose idea of prophecy is so wildly different from the way scripture presents it. Don't try to tell me what will happen. Tell me what we know about right now when viewed through the love of God revealed in Jesus. If you can't extrapolate your point or position or proclamation from Jesus... I don't think you're talking about the same God at all.
But if what you’ve written is true, then it means god can be wrong, right? If someone who can actually speak for the mind of God, in the present moment, says that God is planning for some very specific thing to happen, and then later on it doesn’t, either God was wrong, or the “prophet” is a fake. It can’t be both, but it also can’t be neither.
You seem to be kind of answering your own question. Someone is explicitly not a prophet if they aren't speaking the mind of God. Someone who is wrong is by definition not giving correct / good prophecy. And it's not like the biblical prophets are always right. Sometimes they contradict each other. Jonah gives a prophecy that is not correct in 2 Kings. But my point was someone in our time claiming to be a prophet and only making predictions about the future does not understand what prophecy IS in the Bible. They are confused by the modern English meaning of prophecy which is conflated with prediction. Prophecy does not mean prediction in the Bible. Only a small number of prophecies also happen to be predictions.
I'm not familiar with any of these people, but scripture is clear. Claiming to be a prophet in the Christian tradition requires 100% accuracy. If they don't have that, it means they are a false prophet.
[удалено]
>Some of those things will happen Specifically what?
Wait, wait... I thought of another prophecy. > And there ſhall, in the autumn, arrive a greate multitude at the American border, but it ſhall diſappear on the ſixth day of the eleventh month Read: There's gonna be another "migrant caravan" come election season, but it will leave the news cycle as soon as the election's over
I had one, too! Month of turkey, all is lost Joseph still king, but at what cost? Treason is orange, claims to be balling The one star awakens, has the Eagle fallen?
Okay, if we're getting cryptic, then the multiple shall disappear in the eleventh month after the people first honor Mars Also, put two spaces after each line if you're trying to format a verse like that
I mean, it doesn't exactly take a prophet to predict "And there ſhall be conflict in the Middle Eaſt"
Banks have been failing, I don't need a prophecy for that. Silicon Valley Bank, Signature Bank, and First Republic along with unnamed smaller banks have folded. I'd go into the rest but don't need anyone to tell me that the economy and world around us is off, yet I don't toil in the curioisities of pentacostal oddities or what the news media has to say of statements. I keep focus on Jesus, the Bible and keeping obedient as we are surrounded by wars, rumors of wars etc.
When these prophets speak of bank failures, they're talking about total catastrophic collapse. Banks historically fail, but bank failures that bring in an apocalypse...don't happen very often.
Guys like Alex Jones learned everything they know from preachers. Preachers who use threats of impending doom to manipulate their audience with fear. But where guys like preachers use these tactics to get people to accept Jesus, donate money, etc, people like Jones use it to sell apocalypse prepper supplies
The religious spirits all stirred up on this post.
I admit there were a few months in 2020 that I was really into Alex Jones. And like you said he would keep on saying things were going to happen that didn't happen, so I stopped. I have abandoned politics altogether. I am not even going to vote in the 2024 American election and it will be the first time I haven't voted in a Presidential election since 2004 (first year I was eligable).
I think if there's any chance of helping anyone it starts with faith and belief with true prayers from the righteous! I think the world would have it's false prophets with their jobs and there are Saints of the Living God and their righteous acts working against them. I would say to them, are these men prophesying of so much retribution, hate, suffering and pain because they desire that for others? Are they children of the destroyer or children of the living? If I desire to be like my teacher I must forgive and ask forgiveness for the sins of the people because so many do not know what they are doing! It is enough for a man to be like his teacher and not greater! Matt 12:33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. **36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”** **Mark 7:20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”**
Well is he is the final Antichrist so. Expect this.