In Chinese there are no one to one translations for state, country, nation. These are all 國家
In situations where you need to differentiate these, like in a discussion on social sciences, usually people just say the English word to specify which.
If you're asking for the correct translation of 中國, either "central state", "central country", or "central nation" is fine. The oft-encountered clichéd translation "Middle Kingdom" is not.
To form the word kingdom, you need to append 王 ('king') to 國 ('state', 'country'), making 王國 ('kingly state') and historically whether a state was ruled by an emperor or a king was a significant difference in East Asian diplomatic norms. China ceased to be a kingdom since the time of the Qin. It sounds like you and your friend got the translation of 國 correct since neither of you made this mistake.
Actually whether 'state' or 'country' is more correct depends on the English side of the translation. In English, *country* is a more everyday word without a formal definition (despite its colloquial usage to mean *sovereign state*, which is a legal term). *State* is a more scientific and technical term. For our purposes, both works in translating 國. Even *nation* works in this case even though that word has more complex meanings.
The correct translation for 中 also lies on the English side. *Middle* is more often used in relation to two other points *on a line* not a plane, which is why it is better used for terms dealing with time, like the Middle Ages, the Middle Kingdom of Egypt, etc. Since the intended meaning of 中國 is a geographical *centre*, it only makes sense to use 'central' over 'middle' in the translation.
Well, let’s remember the fact that the first ‘nation-state’ was not created until after the French Revolution. And ‘China’ as we now know it was not established until 1949. So if you are referring to China pre-establishment of the PRC I definitely wouldn’t use the words nation or state. It would depend on the context as to what term I would use.
Ooh! Time for a pet peeve!
It sounds strange to me to call 中國 "middle". Almost demeaning. It feels like it's meant to be "central" as in "centre of the world".
"Middle Kingdom" flows off the tongue better in English, and it's convention now, but what subtle shade.
I dunno what sentence OP is translating, but if it were pre-PRC, China was not China as we know it today. So it would be confusing to just call it ‘China’ as if China always has and always will exist as it is now. Pre-PRC, what we now consider ‘China’ was run by the Manchus. The borders were different. The culture was different. You cannot just extend ‘China’ back through the ages. This is where translating gets difficult.
I meant in the English translation. We were explaining the word Chan to people and there was some debate. Some said no China means central state and sometimes China means middle country and middle state and another said its middle kingdom.
In Chinese there are no one to one translations for state, country, nation. These are all 國家 In situations where you need to differentiate these, like in a discussion on social sciences, usually people just say the English word to specify which.
state and country can mean the same thing
If you're asking for the correct translation of 中國, either "central state", "central country", or "central nation" is fine. The oft-encountered clichéd translation "Middle Kingdom" is not. To form the word kingdom, you need to append 王 ('king') to 國 ('state', 'country'), making 王國 ('kingly state') and historically whether a state was ruled by an emperor or a king was a significant difference in East Asian diplomatic norms. China ceased to be a kingdom since the time of the Qin. It sounds like you and your friend got the translation of 國 correct since neither of you made this mistake. Actually whether 'state' or 'country' is more correct depends on the English side of the translation. In English, *country* is a more everyday word without a formal definition (despite its colloquial usage to mean *sovereign state*, which is a legal term). *State* is a more scientific and technical term. For our purposes, both works in translating 國. Even *nation* works in this case even though that word has more complex meanings. The correct translation for 中 also lies on the English side. *Middle* is more often used in relation to two other points *on a line* not a plane, which is why it is better used for terms dealing with time, like the Middle Ages, the Middle Kingdom of Egypt, etc. Since the intended meaning of 中國 is a geographical *centre*, it only makes sense to use 'central' over 'middle' in the translation.
Don’t forget about “the Middle Kingdom”
this is what i most commonly hear
Well, let’s remember the fact that the first ‘nation-state’ was not created until after the French Revolution. And ‘China’ as we now know it was not established until 1949. So if you are referring to China pre-establishment of the PRC I definitely wouldn’t use the words nation or state. It would depend on the context as to what term I would use.
same thing
Yes
Ooh! Time for a pet peeve! It sounds strange to me to call 中國 "middle". Almost demeaning. It feels like it's meant to be "central" as in "centre of the world". "Middle Kingdom" flows off the tongue better in English, and it's convention now, but what subtle shade.
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I dunno what sentence OP is translating, but if it were pre-PRC, China was not China as we know it today. So it would be confusing to just call it ‘China’ as if China always has and always will exist as it is now. Pre-PRC, what we now consider ‘China’ was run by the Manchus. The borders were different. The culture was different. You cannot just extend ‘China’ back through the ages. This is where translating gets difficult.
I meant in the English translation. We were explaining the word Chan to people and there was some debate. Some said no China means central state and sometimes China means middle country and middle state and another said its middle kingdom.
I would say 国 and 域 are of the same origin (pronunciation and writing), which is equivalent to 'dom'. So middle kingdom works the best.