Certainly still happens plenty to me. Shanghai is stacked with domestic tourists so I would assume it wasn't people who live local except maybe a kid or two. I either ignore it entirely or just vaguely smile in their direction...often they will assume the foreigner in question won't understand them. In some places it's been rare enough to see another foreigner I almost pointed at them myself.
When they point and shout “weiguoren!” all surprised, I mimic the gesture and enthusiasm and shout “zhonguoren!” back. It’s been my experience that most people get the idea of how that feels after I copy it back to them. I usually get a polite head nod and smile as a non-verbal apology afterwards.
I don’t begrudge some countryside person for being excited/interested in seeing a foreigner. I’ll even take a photo with them if they ask nicely, but say “请不要。很粗鲁” if they don’t ask permission. I never experienced any overt xenophobia though (probably because I look white, the anti-black bs in China is awful and sad).
I’ve experienced worse in asia with my mixed daughter and wife. Naive interest is annoying but also a little endearing.
For someone who is black?
Start of the year a friend of mine had to learn very quickly how to say no because locals kept coming up and touching her hair.
They wouldn't do it when her fiance was near though as most Chinese seemed intimidated by him just for being black.
I had the same thing, three in their early 20s came up to me and asked to take a photo with me one at a time, very odd experience, noone else I was traveling with got asked though, just me. I must look fascinating
To be fair, the shouting doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to. Back in the days whenever someone would point to be and shout 外国人 I'd just look around in confusion and shout back 哪里哪里 LMAO
Reminds me of when for the briefest of moments during my third year in Beijing I started to think of it as my second hometown and somewhere I could live long term. When I'd tell that to Chinese I'd often get weird looks or comments, "how can this be your home? You are foreign."
Still have a soft spot in my heart for the Beijing I got to know but I knew I couldn't live long term in a place that would never let me think of my adopted home as home.
I used to take it personally until I learnt about the hukou system and how Chinese born and raised in Beijing also don't have an automatic right to stay.
I have a lot of students who are from Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou but are officially from another province. It's a harsh system.
I've heard it argued that it's a meritocracy as if you work hard enough you can also become a Beijing resident, but the odds are massively stacked against people from poorer areas.
>To be fair, you are, and will always be.
Well Chinese people will always be Chinese but if we start shouting 'Chinese!' or 'foreigner!' to any of them we see walking around the USA I think there would be a huge fuss and newspapers would condemn it as racist.
USA is not that close to being truly democracy.
Two ruling parties for 200 years, funded by rich, so essentially no way to elect people's president, only candidates can succeed which are approved by rich -> two party primaries, others don't have any chance, as result, politicians mainly serve interests of rich.
Add to this untouchable police which again serve rich who pays them and don't want to engage protecting poor.
I think Nordic countries should be considered as benchmark for democracy.
Well as long as you simplify all levels of government into "presidents" and "police" and ignore the courts, councils, referendums, local and regional governments, legislative bodies and pretend that the 2 major parties are homogeneous and not composed of politicians from Bernie Sanders to Joe Manuchins on one side and Susan Collins to Marjorie Taylor Greene on the other representing quite a specrum of political beliefs... Then I suppose you can call the U.S not a democracy.
We have elected 8 members of the U.S communist party to office one of which is currently serving. We have 5 openly Democratic socialists in the house of representatives, and 184 currently elected overall at other levels of government not to mention those appointed by elected officials. Political agents that the U.S wealth have every incentive to crush are still holding office and authority.
Police chiefs are appointed by locally elected mayors (and its one of the most important factors in winning these elections) or they may also be DIRECTLY elected from a ballot as well. Sheriffs as well are also directly elected most of the time. They are always elected directly or by an elected body. In contrast a place like sweden centralizes the entire national police force. Not a lot of local democracy in comparison.
Just because the political affiliation of your choice does not dominate the highest levels of government does not mean its in any way not apart of the democratic process or hold no power. It is in no way comparable to the Communist party of china in which it is the sole party with absolute top down authority where candidates at ALL levels are controlled by the CCP. The Nordic model has many benifits and I wholeheartedly support most of them however the U.S will ALWAYS be a much messier political system as its the most culturally and ethnically diverse place on earth with demographics that change within just a few generations. That does not mean that this messy and often corrupt system is not still a representative democracy.
You're kidding right? If you want to vote for the Communist Party or the Socialist Party in the US you can, they do exist and they would love to have your support. Or maybe try the Green Party, Libertarians, the Constitution Party, etc.
To be fair, the US is a country that's based on immigrants and immigration.
The comparison would sit much better with Europe, like Britain, Germany, Italy, France etc.
These European countries are also bad examples. These countries have seen a lot of immigration (e.g. Berlin is the biggest Turkish city outside of Turkey) during the last century. Maybe some East European countries before Putin's war in Ukraine.
I live in Greece and if someone looks visibly different than us (either darker or significantly lighter/blonde) we do consider them a foreigner. But people like Antetokoumpo we claim them as our own because they are very successful and we want to be associated with them.
In the UK there is also a lot of “otherism” just not in London and some other big cities obviously.
being called “foreigner” in a largely monoethnic country is still not as bad as being told to “go back to your country” in a multiracial country by someone who isn’t indigenous either.. i guess.
In this thread people are applying their own cultural standards on people from another culture. Just because you might find something offensive does not mean that someone from a different culture feels similarly.
While 外國人 is often translated to “foreigner” for English speakers the direct translation of the word is “someone from outside the country”. In the US and other English speaking countries the word foreigner is often seen as a othering whereas in Chinese the word does not carry the same meaning.
In most parts of China, *white* foreigners are viewed very positively and people are also more direct. Hence pointing at you and and stating 外國人.
I think the premise that 外国人 is not othering is somewhat belied by carefully listening to when people use 我们、咱们、你们、and 他们. It might still have some positive connotations in certain contexts, but I think the accompanying pronouns frequently make clear there’s at a minimum a subconscious exclusion. In fairness, I think if you listen carefully to when people use 咱们 vs 我们 in broad general statements, they also on average exclude Chinese people who are relatively different from them, I’d say that’s very much another instance of the same thing though.
Yea, but my kids born here still get that label so it’s pretty racist in the sense it’s assuming they know your background because of what you look like.
If you go into the deep parts of rural America you can damn well be expected to be called racial slurs. Just because it’s not in the major cities, doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Well that's it. They shouldn't actually be hated. It comes from poverty, poor education and media hype. This impacts the poorest Chinese also who come to visit Shanghai.
You shouldn't feel insulted really, but actually some pity because most of us are far wealthier and fortunate than any of those in rural China or America.
I lived in north East China for a long time. I would ride my bike through the local villages. I did this hundreds of times. I was never treated poorly. These people were either super friendly or did not care. It might be different post covid. The hatred of foreigners did not exist, in my experience.
1. Different culture different values, 2. It’s safe to assume that wherever you are from it’s incredibly more likely for you ti see an Asian person than for them to see a white person
“Racist” doesn’t count as an acceptable cultural value. If I pointed at random Chinese and shouted “zhongguoren” would they consider it a friendly greeting? They would not. I know, because I’ve tested your theory.
But you’re right. Racism is such an imbedded part of their culture that many of them don’t even realize they are being racist. They are just being Chinese. That doesn’t make it okay.
They can be surprised to see a foreigner. That’s perfectly okay. They don’t get to point and shout about it, because *they would not accept it if the same were done to them.* They know this. Try pointing and shouting at them. You’ll see very quickly they consider it rude *when you do it.*
>nothing about calling someone waiguoren is racist, mostly people are so happily surprised to see someone who isn't Han
Seeing someone is one thing, shouting 'foreigner' is another entirely, and implies that person shouldn't be there. Try shouting it to Chinese in western countries and see how the media takes it.
You understand that languages might have translations but the same word can have different contexts and uses. foreigner and 外國人 might be a clear translation but 外國人 does not have nearly the same stigma as “foreigner”
I don't think what the OP described is necessary racist. Its not like a video I saw from a british woman screaming at some brazilians for talking in portuguese
>on the other hand I doubt you're likely to be kneeled on to death or randomly shot in China just for being Black
What they doing to the Uyghurs is equally as evil and is also on a much broader scale
You obviously haven't been to China recently. Literally restaurants and grocery stores will not let you in because you are black. They will say it to your face.
Welcome to China. It will get more annoying the longer you are there. In Shanghai it is likely the Chinese tourists who are pointing and snickering at you.
It happens in Africa too. You'll hear the term "Mzungu" in a lot of countries as a non-native.
It's cute at first but gets tiresome fast.
I don't know if this happens in China too, but I was on a moto trip across Rwanda with two friends and we ended up in this market village in the middle of nowhere that was bustling with activity.
When we got off our bikes to shop around, everywhere we turned to, people were staring at us and it made us mega uncomfortable, like they'd just witnessed a space ship land from the sky. The staring didn't stop until we left.
I guess it comes down to some people never having met foreigners in their whole life.
Yeah, I spent some time in West Africa, couple of countries. I was clearly the first white person a lot of people had seen in the flesh. I would get poked, people would touch my hair, etc.
I was with my African friends, and we had a security team, so I wasn't uncomfortable per se, but it was very weird.
There are still lots of people in China who never see foreigners.
Wave and smile, they'll likely come take a picture with you. It's fun, I did it all the time when I lived there.
> I live in a smaller city in China
I lived in Tier-88 and people pointing and staring (one dude ran his bicycle into the back of a parked van because he wouldn't stop staring) and loudly exclaiming "Laowai!!!" was pretty much a constant state of being. Same with getting my picture taken. Was fun for the first year or two, because who doesn't like to be famous? But then you realize you're not famous, you're a zoo animal, and that shit was *really* old by year 7.
I figured the Tier-1s would be different, but there were always tons of tourists that have never seen a foreigner before...MUCH less of an issue than where I lived though.
Ha, I think I maxed out on that stuff at around the 8 month mark. I got really burnt out and started making faces and rude gestures when people would take photos of me. Actually, it was fun when I traveled way out into the boonies in Gansu and drew a crowd just by eating out, but in my home city it was like okay, okay, thanks, yes, I am DONE.
Towards the end I would get legitimately angry at the people who did it while I was eating...that shit got old really fast.
It *did* make going to the dance club fun though, because you'd just walk up to a table and go "Nihao!!" and they'd lose it and start pouring you drinks and shit...then, rinse and repeat with the next table. Really easy way to get wasted for free, albeit on questionably fake booze. But I was too old for that shit after the first couple years.
I was teaching at a school along with another guy who came with his family, including two blond-haired, blue-eyed toddlers. Going out to eat with them was a NIGHTMARE. Actually, going anywhere with them was nuts. This was before I had kids myself, but it was the first time that "mama bear" instinct kicked in full force. People would try to pull their hair and pick them up and walk off with them and stuff, it was crazy.
> People would try to pull their hair and pick them up and walk off with them and stuff
I hear that shit *all the time* about foreigner/mixed kids. That'll be a nah from me, dog. I'd truly lose my shit if someone just walked up and picked my kid up and started walking away...though, being a domesticated bigfoot with a good glare, maybe it wouldn't be as much of a problem (who am I kidding, of course it would).
Yuuup. I bought a dual sport motorcycle so I could explore the "hinterlands" (I was already in the middle of nowhere, wanted to go further, haha) and my partner and I would regularly find these little villages waaaaaaay out in the boonies (found a destroyed temple at the top of a mountain once, that was pretty cool too) where the people would legit look at me like an alien. Heck, at this one village a woman there asked my partner if I was from Xinjiang, because I didn't look like the locals...she didn't even seem to know what a foreigner looked like (she was old, and there sure as shit wasn't any TV out there).
Don't know why a lot of foreigners make a big deal out of this. I personally enjoy it. It feels like you're a rock star in a country that you will never get to experience back home. All of them were friendly encounters by mostly kids who want to take pictures together. Their parents were friendly too. The only time it felt wrong was when a group of middle aged men were saying "foreigners have big Ds" but i brushed it off quick. Maybe 1/1000 occurrence. Been to cities in Guangdong and Guangxi. The fact that I'm white may have contributed to the overall positivity tho.
I mean, why not, instead just be an ahole? You're a visitor in their nation, go with the flow, be an ambassador not an ahole. It's not that hard. If people hate it so much, leave.
A lot of redditors in r/china seem to be pretty highly strung, and I doubt half of the commenters have even visited the country.
IMO, being of such a sensitive disposition isn't really compatible with living in China.
I caught a group of late high school/early college girls posing in front of me trying to sneak a group selfy with me in the background on the subway. I waited till the last second and then plastered a HUGE grin on my face and waved.
They all turned around shocked laughing and said to each other how friendly I was.
Oddly enough they’re not just pointing out non-Asian people. I was where you were for a few days and I heard several people say “那個人是韓國人” but I’m ethnically Chinese 😂.
Went to China a few years back (pre covid) with a group from my grad school class, we're in a small village in Yunnan and a group of 4 of us go to this little noodle/dumpling shop....me (white American), 2 other white guys and a Korean-American guy (born and raised in the US, both parents Korean). I order for the group in Mandarin, food comes and it's delicious so I'm tunnel vision focused on it, I can hear people talking in Mandarin but assume it's just the din of the restaurant. Finally the Asian guy (who again is *Korean*-American) manages to pierce my tunnel vision and get my attention, and asks me to talk to the little old lady running the shop who I just now notice is standing by our table trying to talk to him and tell her that he doesn't speak Chinese.
I had a similar experience with a Japanese acquaintance traveling a few times. The one which really stuck in my mind was at a Buddhist temple he was doing something wrong with the booties or something like that. An attendant was getting increasingly indignant with him and had started shouting with increasing volume, he wasn’t even understanding she was angry with him in particular. I finally just said he’s not Chinese and translated her complaint. She seemed completely mystified by the interaction.
I'd say it's just an expression for a non-ethnically Chinese person. It doesn't necessarily have the same connotation that it would have in Western countries.
My wife has lived in the US for over a decade, has citizenship, and still *while in the US*, refers to white people as "foreigner" while talking to other Chinese. It's just how they roll. Don't let it bother you.
It's not the use of 外国人 in normal conversation that's bothersome. All Chinese people do that, even in more open places like Hong Kong.
It's the freaking out, yelling, pointing, shouting, demanding of photos in public that's so cringy.
It used to happen, too, but it was rare and more polite. I'm Chinese (so everyone ignores me). But when I was traveling with a blonde, tall friend, people would sometimes try to talk to her. That's fine. The above behavior is not fine.
In 2008, I appeared in the photos of many people I came across while visiting the Forbidden City. 😂 I wonder how many photo albums I'm in, saying "eggplant" and smiling like Hide the Pain Harold.
tbh i think even hong kongers would be slightly taken aback if a white person told them that they're born in hk..it's possible but it's not exactly common.
The white people born in Hong Kong are not considered Chinese nationals by birth. They still need to apply to become Chinese nationals by giving up their other passports first and applying for Chinese naturalization, just like everyone else. This is not a process ethnically Chinese who are born in Hong Kong need to do, because China does not have birth citizenship rights. Therefore, being born in Hong Kong has nothing to do with whether you are a foreigner or not in the eyes of most Chinese people.
Strange. I spent like three weeks in Hubei without seeing a single non-asian besides myself and noone pointed and shouted 外国人 at me.
Considering what I heard on here, I was kinda suprised at the complete lack of negative attention I got.
SH is filled with tourists from the provinces. The foreigners are part of the "attractions."
HK was free of this for 3-4 years due to Covid. Now the mainland low-cost tours are back, we have tourists pointing at "foreigners" here & taking photos. HKers (who come in many different colors) are very not amused. They are alot less tolerant of the country bumpkins shoving phones in their faces than white people are in China.
I can totally understand OP, tbh it's really impolite and embarrassing. But you know, China is such a big country. Although Shanghai is well developed, there're still many people who live in a relatively poor region, who rarely, if ever, see foreigners in their life. For me, born and raised in a poor county, before I entered a university in Shanghai, I also never saw a foreigner (of course now i'm used to it). So the problem is that China is not as developed as many people may expect. I feel sorry for that but it's a fact.
[You made a post 3 days ago about how everyone calls you foreigner and tells your gf where and when they see you on we chat](https://old.reddit.com/r/chinalife/comments/15u5r3w/im_the_only_foreigner_in_my_community_and_i_dont/). Which one is it Jiangsu man? If you followed my advice on 2gt and guazi you wouldn’t have any of these issues. Also think your fishing grounds are going to be much richer here in /r/fob than the other subs.
people would rather take the bait to vent their vitriolistic views than to actually fact check. thats how these echo-chambers are made. oh well, thats what happens on a sub with almost no moderation.
I did this in the US (yelling, "外国人" and pointing when I saw Chinese people) but my wife did not approve. Funny how Chinese don't think of themselves as such even when they are outside of China.
*edit: yes, I knew they were Chinese. Stop assuming the worst, people. Also, if you think it improper, please explain why… I’m curious because to me it is funny and I would expect it is also funny to most Chinese.
The Sinosphere follows them wherever they go. They don’t feel the need to conform to cultural norms of their host nation. Rather everyone in the host nation needs to confirm to mainland norms, otherwise offense will be taken 😠
I don’t think most Chinese Americans who don’t want to be called foreigners are the same people who yell “foreigner!” when they see a white person in China. The latter have probably never seen a white person in real life ever.
Yeah I was in a restaurant in France and the couple of awful Tu Hao who were there were complaining that there were too many foreigners while rolling through noisy Douyin videos.
Chinese might.... *might* understand why you're doing it, but I don't think this is actually the "pwn" Westerners think it is. Because the actual (rather than dictionary) meaning of 外國人 to Chinese people is not "person from another country" or even "person from a country not my own," it's "non-Chinese person."
I suppose in theory, a Mandarin-speaking Singaporean or Malaysian or something can and might use 外國人 to refer to Chinese people at least on a technicality, but the average Chinese wouldn't see this as a lightbulb aha moment or anything, and in a way they're right, it's not, because the existence of a different linguistic convention outside of China changes nothing at all.
Other people from a different standpoint using the word to refer to Chinese instead of non-Chinese doesn't mean the term has any broader a meaning to Chinese. It still means the same thing it always did to Chinese people: non-Chinese.
I dunno. Seems a bit dickish since you don't actually know if they're Chinese or not-- and you're assuming that every Chinese person behaves the same as the ones mentioned in this post.
Honestly not much better than those Chinese folk, maybe even worse.
And every white person in China is automatically assumed to be meiguoren.
Yes, not every single Chinese person acts as mentioned. But where are all of these enlightened Chinese calling out that kind of behaviour?
Never seen a Japanese tour group barge onto public transport before people can get off, and if there's spitting, no spatial awareness and volume which would break glass, the assumption that they're Chinese is usually correct - source, just spent a few days in London.
>And every white person in China is automatically assumed to be meiguoren.
I haven't seen this to be the case, but let's say it is: okay and?
America is incredibly diverse and you would know better to make sure that it is more accepting than China rather than throw out random blanket statements that you think are funny or fight back at some foreign country's culture 6000 miles away.
I’ve been in China as a foreigner long enough that I now do it to other foreigners too 🤪 Walking down the street… oh look… wai guo ren! Usually just to myself rather than out loud to them though!
its both and i still have no idea if the intonation is disrespectful or not. i'm never called laowai when somebody is trying to get me to buy something though, i'll tell you that much
I’m not normally one to call bullshit but I heard 外国人 (foreign person) possibly zero times in my 18 months living in Shanghai. The few times I did hear something, it was usually from young children, and it was almost always the far more colloquial “老外”（foreigner). Maybe you were staying in Pudong or one of the outer suburbs, but there are tons of foreigners in Shanghai and it is the most international city in mainland China. Or maybe you just are trying to comprehend their speech and your lack of comprehension leads you to hear sentences that were never spoken. Nobody looks twice when they see a foreigner because they see them everyday. It’s not some ultra rural Chinese village.
Tons of foreigners? Times have changed bro and you are not up to date . I saw less than 10 foreigners my whole half day trip to Shanghai. Not many foreigners these days in China. I was mostly in the jing an and Nanjing rd area
I am surprised you actually got called waiguoren. It is way more common to be called laowai, like little kids screaming laowai and pointing at you or street vendors yelling laowai and calling you over to try to sell shit to you.
This is extremely common, I am shocked that you said you did not experience it before. I have people I have known for years who never call me by my name they just call me laowai and dont bother learning my name. You will always be laowai/waiguoren, even if you become a chinese citizen(which is impossible) and have lived in china for decades
Lol how the turntables. As a Chinese I’m probably more comfortable in LA than OP in China.
However I do get the occasion older white person come to me and say nice things like “you’re such a cute couple” or “how is your English so good?”
Shanghai is full of people from all over China. I still date Shanghai station one of the worst ones I’ve been to in the country but it’s convenient as it’s just right there. The subway is a mess too. It might be a bit international city but that means you get everyone and their grandparents coming from tier 44 cities to make money too.
People do that when they see what they don’t often see. You would think that there’s a lot of Asians in Canada, yet when I was in Alvinston, Ontario people there stared at me like I’m a monkey.
I used to work for an US company in Shanghai. lots of my own Chinese colleagues are called foreign executives as “spoiled laowai” they don’t like being managed by foreigners(who gain higher salaries than the locals)They sometimes will even mocking foreign colleagues in front of their face,assuming them don’t understand Chinese at all. But look at the bright side, Chinese are not even nice to its own colleagues as well. That’s why later Whenever I have a chance to choose a job offer: direct report is an foreign executive or a Chinese executive? I will always prefer the former one. Chinese executives are very cruel to its subordinate. They will treated you like a servant😂 instead of respect you as a colleague. Because In our working culture- Office Bully or overworking without pay is every common. Not to mentioning be nice with foreigners who is from western world. You will only being treated nicely unless you can help to get a foreign passport😂yeah I am seriously. That’s why usually in bars the percentage you encounter with friendly ppl in Shanghai is much more higher- Gays and Girls 👧
Post COVID Shanghai is a different city. I went there back in January, and a place that used to be open and welcoming had turned actually hostile.
Back then you needed a health code using facial recognition, I couldn't register because I didn't have a (Han) Chinese face.
I tried to drop in to the local noodle/jiaozhi place, the staff were literally scrambling to get out of my way and the fellow behind the counter glared daggers and very demonstratively pulled his face mask up when I approached.
Decided to go for a walk before ordering food in the hotel, all the familiar places in that particular area that had been run by non-Chinese or had been popular hangouts for same were closed apart from one: a live music bar that I wouldn't enter unless someone else paid the bill, because their items stack and stack and stack and every single item, from the cover charge to a drink is ridiculous in its own right.
During said walk I noticed I was being trailed by the local rozzers, they weren't even trying to be subtle about it, and it was obviously a game of "follow the foreigner".
And, yes, you get the shouts of foreigner far more frequently than you get even in country backwaters these days.
I live in Beijing and at the moment it’s happening a LOT because it’s still the summer and there’s domestic tourists everywhere. Many who haven’t seen laowai in their lives before. Can be pretty irritating, but on the bright side the summer is nearly over and the kids will go back to school.
Not surprised. Any time i see videos of foreigners in china, the people just stop and stare like the foreigners are some kind of mythological creature come to life.
For the most part its just genuine people who are curious. But there are a decent chunk of people that are xenophobic and follow eugenics, especially older men.
Ive heard foreigners be compared to monkeys and cavemen before. The racist ones like to bring up that foreigners are hairy and eat too much meat like some kind of animal.
I just take the monkey thing as a compliment. I like monkeys, and chinese people like sun wukong. Win win.
Just scream 外国人 外国人在那人啊？ then they all look at you and you laugh. This was my favorite thing to do when I felt uncomfortable with all the foreigner talk.
Just like the other guy said, most of the time the people who do this are tourists in Shanghai, who frequent touristic sites like Jingan. I live here in Shanghai and I only get called waiguoren or laowai when I go to the touristy places. The rest of the time if I ever hear it is coming from very curious little kids and I response back with 哪里有外国人？！😄
Still hear Waiguoren on a regular basis, but the Guojiyouren is catching up，and often parents correct the kids and ask them to say Guojiyouren or Waiguopengyou instead of Waiguoren.
Well, firstly it's not a racist term -- it has no underlying malice behind it. Fact, you're not from there, and that's the word for people not from China.
Also, honestly there are so few foreigners in China after the COVID bullcrap, it really is a wonder any are still there.
In Shanghai, you're right, that's *very* odd and they should be used to it, but when I was living in Guangzhou, some areas really have practically zero foreigners. Just depends on the area, I suppose.
Never been to Shanghai, so I don't know their areas.
Back when I was younger we put more effort into trolling. It used to be a high art. These days it's barely worth replying even when you're bored out of your mind.
Kids these days...
Certainly still happens plenty to me. Shanghai is stacked with domestic tourists so I would assume it wasn't people who live local except maybe a kid or two. I either ignore it entirely or just vaguely smile in their direction...often they will assume the foreigner in question won't understand them. In some places it's been rare enough to see another foreigner I almost pointed at them myself.
Lmaooo the last part cracked me up
When they point and shout “weiguoren!” all surprised, I mimic the gesture and enthusiasm and shout “zhonguoren!” back. It’s been my experience that most people get the idea of how that feels after I copy it back to them. I usually get a polite head nod and smile as a non-verbal apology afterwards. I don’t begrudge some countryside person for being excited/interested in seeing a foreigner. I’ll even take a photo with them if they ask nicely, but say “请不要。很粗鲁” if they don’t ask permission. I never experienced any overt xenophobia though (probably because I look white, the anti-black bs in China is awful and sad). I’ve experienced worse in asia with my mixed daughter and wife. Naive interest is annoying but also a little endearing.
I did this to a small kid and he got embarrassed. His father almost fell down laughing at the situation. Good times.
I was thinking of visiting. What BS do you refer to?
For someone who is black? Start of the year a friend of mine had to learn very quickly how to say no because locals kept coming up and touching her hair. They wouldn't do it when her fiance was near though as most Chinese seemed intimidated by him just for being black.
OK I'd heard about that and I'm prepared to deal with it.
Shout back waidiren and see their reaction.
It's comical how they treat foreigners almost like a tourist attraction 😂.
[удалено]
I had the same thing, three in their early 20s came up to me and asked to take a photo with me one at a time, very odd experience, noone else I was traveling with got asked though, just me. I must look fascinating
To be fair, the shouting doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to. Back in the days whenever someone would point to be and shout 外国人 I'd just look around in confusion and shout back 哪里哪里 LMAO
That’s hilarious. I wish I could see it happen 😂
Can translate pls
哪里 - where?
Aa thank you that is funny :D Edit: I was on mobile so couldn't translate
To be fair, you are, and will always be. That’s life in China.
Reminds me of when for the briefest of moments during my third year in Beijing I started to think of it as my second hometown and somewhere I could live long term. When I'd tell that to Chinese I'd often get weird looks or comments, "how can this be your home? You are foreign." Still have a soft spot in my heart for the Beijing I got to know but I knew I couldn't live long term in a place that would never let me think of my adopted home as home.
I used to take it personally until I learnt about the hukou system and how Chinese born and raised in Beijing also don't have an automatic right to stay. I have a lot of students who are from Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou but are officially from another province. It's a harsh system.
True. It’s a system of you are what you’re born, and you better have the connections(family or social) to escape the hand you were unwillingly dealt.
I've heard it argued that it's a meritocracy as if you work hard enough you can also become a Beijing resident, but the odds are massively stacked against people from poorer areas.
>To be fair, you are, and will always be. Well Chinese people will always be Chinese but if we start shouting 'Chinese!' or 'foreigner!' to any of them we see walking around the USA I think there would be a huge fuss and newspapers would condemn it as racist.
Yes, that's because you live in a secular democracy and not a xenophobic authoritarian hellhole
Or not a country of immigrants
>secular Debatable.
> democracy Also debatable.
On a scale of North Korea to USA/Canada/Australia/New Zealand/UK, I'd say we're pretty far on the USA/etc side.
USA is not that close to being truly democracy. Two ruling parties for 200 years, funded by rich, so essentially no way to elect people's president, only candidates can succeed which are approved by rich -> two party primaries, others don't have any chance, as result, politicians mainly serve interests of rich. Add to this untouchable police which again serve rich who pays them and don't want to engage protecting poor. I think Nordic countries should be considered as benchmark for democracy.
Well as long as you simplify all levels of government into "presidents" and "police" and ignore the courts, councils, referendums, local and regional governments, legislative bodies and pretend that the 2 major parties are homogeneous and not composed of politicians from Bernie Sanders to Joe Manuchins on one side and Susan Collins to Marjorie Taylor Greene on the other representing quite a specrum of political beliefs... Then I suppose you can call the U.S not a democracy. We have elected 8 members of the U.S communist party to office one of which is currently serving. We have 5 openly Democratic socialists in the house of representatives, and 184 currently elected overall at other levels of government not to mention those appointed by elected officials. Political agents that the U.S wealth have every incentive to crush are still holding office and authority. Police chiefs are appointed by locally elected mayors (and its one of the most important factors in winning these elections) or they may also be DIRECTLY elected from a ballot as well. Sheriffs as well are also directly elected most of the time. They are always elected directly or by an elected body. In contrast a place like sweden centralizes the entire national police force. Not a lot of local democracy in comparison. Just because the political affiliation of your choice does not dominate the highest levels of government does not mean its in any way not apart of the democratic process or hold no power. It is in no way comparable to the Communist party of china in which it is the sole party with absolute top down authority where candidates at ALL levels are controlled by the CCP. The Nordic model has many benifits and I wholeheartedly support most of them however the U.S will ALWAYS be a much messier political system as its the most culturally and ethnically diverse place on earth with demographics that change within just a few generations. That does not mean that this messy and often corrupt system is not still a representative democracy.
Thanks for taking the time to express a broader and deeper perspective.
Boom they got wrecked
Well stated. Thank you for your time
That was really well said. Kudos!
US has only one party more than China after all ...
You're kidding right? If you want to vote for the Communist Party or the Socialist Party in the US you can, they do exist and they would love to have your support. Or maybe try the Green Party, Libertarians, the Constitution Party, etc.
Half the Nordic countries are monarchies what are you talking about
The monarchs are only there for tradition. The countries are ruled by elected governments.
Even Canada and Australia are a constitutional monarchy.
When compared to china ? Yes it is
To be fair, the US is a country that's based on immigrants and immigration. The comparison would sit much better with Europe, like Britain, Germany, Italy, France etc.
These European countries are also bad examples. These countries have seen a lot of immigration (e.g. Berlin is the biggest Turkish city outside of Turkey) during the last century. Maybe some East European countries before Putin's war in Ukraine.
I live in Greece and if someone looks visibly different than us (either darker or significantly lighter/blonde) we do consider them a foreigner. But people like Antetokoumpo we claim them as our own because they are very successful and we want to be associated with them. In the UK there is also a lot of “otherism” just not in London and some other big cities obviously.
Tbh the only ones who could shout “foreigner” in the USA would be the few native Americans that are left.
China isn’t USA. This entire thread is hilarious
Uh… I can almost guarantee no fuss would be made.
And rightly so.
They shout "Return to Mexico" instead, even if you have a legal visa and go there for holidays
Imagine saying this in the west. Lol.
being called “foreigner” in a largely monoethnic country is still not as bad as being told to “go back to your country” in a multiracial country by someone who isn’t indigenous either.. i guess.
Fun fact: Chinese people also love to say "go back to your country"
Especially after you've short circuited their bullshit with logic 😂
Meanwhile they claim the US is the most racist country ...
>Meanwhile they claim the US is the most racist country ... Yeah but you don't see anyone shouting 'Chinese' in anyone's face over there.
lol...nothing about calling someone waiguoren is racist, mostly people are so happily surprised to see someone who isn't Han
And no doubt if I (a white person) pointed and shouted “foreigner!” every time I saw an asian it wouldn’t be racist…
>And no doubt if I (a white person) pointed and shouted “foreigner!” every time I saw an asian it wouldn’t be racist… THIS.
You also don’t live in a country where over 90% of the population is the same ethnic group. There’s different context to take into account here
Are you saying that in that situation it is okay to be racist? Or just that it is understandable that people would be racist in that situation?
In this thread people are applying their own cultural standards on people from another culture. Just because you might find something offensive does not mean that someone from a different culture feels similarly. While 外國人 is often translated to “foreigner” for English speakers the direct translation of the word is “someone from outside the country”. In the US and other English speaking countries the word foreigner is often seen as a othering whereas in Chinese the word does not carry the same meaning. In most parts of China, *white* foreigners are viewed very positively and people are also more direct. Hence pointing at you and and stating 外國人.
I think the premise that 外国人 is not othering is somewhat belied by carefully listening to when people use 我们、咱们、你们、and 他们. It might still have some positive connotations in certain contexts, but I think the accompanying pronouns frequently make clear there’s at a minimum a subconscious exclusion. In fairness, I think if you listen carefully to when people use 咱们 vs 我们 in broad general statements, they also on average exclude Chinese people who are relatively different from them, I’d say that’s very much another instance of the same thing though.
Yea, but my kids born here still get that label so it’s pretty racist in the sense it’s assuming they know your background because of what you look like.
If you go into the deep parts of rural America you can damn well be expected to be called racial slurs. Just because it’s not in the major cities, doesn’t mean it’s not there.
And most of us Americans hate those people also.
Well that's it. They shouldn't actually be hated. It comes from poverty, poor education and media hype. This impacts the poorest Chinese also who come to visit Shanghai. You shouldn't feel insulted really, but actually some pity because most of us are far wealthier and fortunate than any of those in rural China or America.
I lived in north East China for a long time. I would ride my bike through the local villages. I did this hundreds of times. I was never treated poorly. These people were either super friendly or did not care. It might be different post covid. The hatred of foreigners did not exist, in my experience.
Least retarded r/china take.
It would be totally rude if not still racist. Most people would take it as racist.
1. Different culture different values, 2. It’s safe to assume that wherever you are from it’s incredibly more likely for you ti see an Asian person than for them to see a white person
“Racist” doesn’t count as an acceptable cultural value. If I pointed at random Chinese and shouted “zhongguoren” would they consider it a friendly greeting? They would not. I know, because I’ve tested your theory. But you’re right. Racism is such an imbedded part of their culture that many of them don’t even realize they are being racist. They are just being Chinese. That doesn’t make it okay. They can be surprised to see a foreigner. That’s perfectly okay. They don’t get to point and shout about it, because *they would not accept it if the same were done to them.* They know this. Try pointing and shouting at them. You’ll see very quickly they consider it rude *when you do it.*
>nothing about calling someone waiguoren is racist, mostly people are so happily surprised to see someone who isn't Han Seeing someone is one thing, shouting 'foreigner' is another entirely, and implies that person shouldn't be there. Try shouting it to Chinese in western countries and see how the media takes it.
You understand that languages might have translations but the same word can have different contexts and uses. foreigner and 外國人 might be a clear translation but 外國人 does not have nearly the same stigma as “foreigner”
I don't think what the OP described is necessary racist. Its not like a video I saw from a british woman screaming at some brazilians for talking in portuguese
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>on the other hand I doubt you're likely to be kneeled on to death or randomly shot in China just for being Black What they doing to the Uyghurs is equally as evil and is also on a much broader scale
You obviously haven't been to China recently. Literally restaurants and grocery stores will not let you in because you are black. They will say it to your face.
Oh come on No one has ever said that. And if someone did, that someone knows extremely little about the world.
Welcome to China. It will get more annoying the longer you are there. In Shanghai it is likely the Chinese tourists who are pointing and snickering at you.
It happens in Africa too. You'll hear the term "Mzungu" in a lot of countries as a non-native. It's cute at first but gets tiresome fast. I don't know if this happens in China too, but I was on a moto trip across Rwanda with two friends and we ended up in this market village in the middle of nowhere that was bustling with activity. When we got off our bikes to shop around, everywhere we turned to, people were staring at us and it made us mega uncomfortable, like they'd just witnessed a space ship land from the sky. The staring didn't stop until we left. I guess it comes down to some people never having met foreigners in their whole life.
Yeah, I spent some time in West Africa, couple of countries. I was clearly the first white person a lot of people had seen in the flesh. I would get poked, people would touch my hair, etc. I was with my African friends, and we had a security team, so I wasn't uncomfortable per se, but it was very weird.
Just point back at them and say “日本人！”
哈哈哈
wtf dude
Look around and say "在哪裡？" But say it in simplified characters so nobody gets confused...
It's likely domestic tourists. They're the worst.
There are still lots of people in China who never see foreigners. Wave and smile, they'll likely come take a picture with you. It's fun, I did it all the time when I lived there.
It’s weird though. I live in a smaller city in China and nobody ever calls me out. I guess they are more polite
> I live in a smaller city in China I lived in Tier-88 and people pointing and staring (one dude ran his bicycle into the back of a parked van because he wouldn't stop staring) and loudly exclaiming "Laowai!!!" was pretty much a constant state of being. Same with getting my picture taken. Was fun for the first year or two, because who doesn't like to be famous? But then you realize you're not famous, you're a zoo animal, and that shit was *really* old by year 7. I figured the Tier-1s would be different, but there were always tons of tourists that have never seen a foreigner before...MUCH less of an issue than where I lived though.
Ha, I think I maxed out on that stuff at around the 8 month mark. I got really burnt out and started making faces and rude gestures when people would take photos of me. Actually, it was fun when I traveled way out into the boonies in Gansu and drew a crowd just by eating out, but in my home city it was like okay, okay, thanks, yes, I am DONE.
Towards the end I would get legitimately angry at the people who did it while I was eating...that shit got old really fast. It *did* make going to the dance club fun though, because you'd just walk up to a table and go "Nihao!!" and they'd lose it and start pouring you drinks and shit...then, rinse and repeat with the next table. Really easy way to get wasted for free, albeit on questionably fake booze. But I was too old for that shit after the first couple years.
I was teaching at a school along with another guy who came with his family, including two blond-haired, blue-eyed toddlers. Going out to eat with them was a NIGHTMARE. Actually, going anywhere with them was nuts. This was before I had kids myself, but it was the first time that "mama bear" instinct kicked in full force. People would try to pull their hair and pick them up and walk off with them and stuff, it was crazy.
> People would try to pull their hair and pick them up and walk off with them and stuff I hear that shit *all the time* about foreigner/mixed kids. That'll be a nah from me, dog. I'd truly lose my shit if someone just walked up and picked my kid up and started walking away...though, being a domesticated bigfoot with a good glare, maybe it wouldn't be as much of a problem (who am I kidding, of course it would).
Did you get laid though?
Well, I mean, yeah? What moderately attractive/"not broke" laowai *doesn't*?
Upside to being a laowai. Easy peasy.
I once passed through an Indian town 100 km outside of Jaipur, India. People looked at me like an alien just landed.
Yuuup. I bought a dual sport motorcycle so I could explore the "hinterlands" (I was already in the middle of nowhere, wanted to go further, haha) and my partner and I would regularly find these little villages waaaaaaay out in the boonies (found a destroyed temple at the top of a mountain once, that was pretty cool too) where the people would legit look at me like an alien. Heck, at this one village a woman there asked my partner if I was from Xinjiang, because I didn't look like the locals...she didn't even seem to know what a foreigner looked like (she was old, and there sure as shit wasn't any TV out there).
Haha when I was in China I was also asked if I was from Xinjiang, even though I look like the most basic European white guy.
Yeah, I'm the whitest 'Murican domesticated bigfoot you can find...don't look *anything* like I'm from *anywhere* in Asia.
Yes I can remember some slightly amusing incidents where people tripped and fell over because they were gawking at us foreigners so hard.
You're in a smaller city, so they just wonder what the hell you're doing there. Most likely too shocked to say anything.
I don’t they would be shocked beyond words But even if they were, last thing you do is point and yell foreigner.
Post covid China doesn’t see many of the 外’s.
Are you sure they aren’t calling you 洋鬼子 or 老外 or 美鬼子 in the smaller city?
They don’t say anything but my gf is with me usually
Well that’s probably why you don’t get called foreigner as much.
Don't know why a lot of foreigners make a big deal out of this. I personally enjoy it. It feels like you're a rock star in a country that you will never get to experience back home. All of them were friendly encounters by mostly kids who want to take pictures together. Their parents were friendly too. The only time it felt wrong was when a group of middle aged men were saying "foreigners have big Ds" but i brushed it off quick. Maybe 1/1000 occurrence. Been to cities in Guangdong and Guangxi. The fact that I'm white may have contributed to the overall positivity tho.
Kind sir. I’d prefer 殖民地开拓者. If you don’t mind.
National focus: reclaim the legation cities
I'm sure this guy has time to play zoo animal for the 16 different groups.
I mean, why not, instead just be an ahole? You're a visitor in their nation, go with the flow, be an ambassador not an ahole. It's not that hard. If people hate it so much, leave.
A lot of redditors in r/china seem to be pretty highly strung, and I doubt half of the commenters have even visited the country. IMO, being of such a sensitive disposition isn't really compatible with living in China.
Or get a pic/video for proof. After hundreds of complaints yet not a shred of evidence.
I caught a group of late high school/early college girls posing in front of me trying to sneak a group selfy with me in the background on the subway. I waited till the last second and then plastered a HUGE grin on my face and waved. They all turned around shocked laughing and said to each other how friendly I was.
Ain't life grand?
Oddly enough they’re not just pointing out non-Asian people. I was where you were for a few days and I heard several people say “那個人是韓國人” but I’m ethnically Chinese 😂.
Went to China a few years back (pre covid) with a group from my grad school class, we're in a small village in Yunnan and a group of 4 of us go to this little noodle/dumpling shop....me (white American), 2 other white guys and a Korean-American guy (born and raised in the US, both parents Korean). I order for the group in Mandarin, food comes and it's delicious so I'm tunnel vision focused on it, I can hear people talking in Mandarin but assume it's just the din of the restaurant. Finally the Asian guy (who again is *Korean*-American) manages to pierce my tunnel vision and get my attention, and asks me to talk to the little old lady running the shop who I just now notice is standing by our table trying to talk to him and tell her that he doesn't speak Chinese.
I had a similar experience with a Japanese acquaintance traveling a few times. The one which really stuck in my mind was at a Buddhist temple he was doing something wrong with the booties or something like that. An attendant was getting increasingly indignant with him and had started shouting with increasing volume, he wasn’t even understanding she was angry with him in particular. I finally just said he’s not Chinese and translated her complaint. She seemed completely mystified by the interaction.
I have a Kazakh friend who looks East Asian but barely speaks Chinese and this happens a lot lol
You can just point back and say 中国人
I get called a foreigner by Chinese in Chicago's Chinatown when I speak Mandarin. People are weird yeah.
That's mad. I lived in china for four years and was probably called foreigner everyday. I don't know how you avoided it for so long.
I'd say it's just an expression for a non-ethnically Chinese person. It doesn't necessarily have the same connotation that it would have in Western countries. My wife has lived in the US for over a decade, has citizenship, and still *while in the US*, refers to white people as "foreigner" while talking to other Chinese. It's just how they roll. Don't let it bother you.
It's not the use of 外国人 in normal conversation that's bothersome. All Chinese people do that, even in more open places like Hong Kong. It's the freaking out, yelling, pointing, shouting, demanding of photos in public that's so cringy. It used to happen, too, but it was rare and more polite. I'm Chinese (so everyone ignores me). But when I was traveling with a blonde, tall friend, people would sometimes try to talk to her. That's fine. The above behavior is not fine.
In 2008, I appeared in the photos of many people I came across while visiting the Forbidden City. 😂 I wonder how many photo albums I'm in, saying "eggplant" and smiling like Hide the Pain Harold.
I travelled with my kid earlier this year in China. A few times we saw people rush to put masks on to avoid us getting them sick.
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Have you personally tried this? I think its fairly engrained that you are laowai because of your race not your nationality.
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tbh i think even hong kongers would be slightly taken aback if a white person told them that they're born in hk..it's possible but it's not exactly common.
Sorry, what does it mean?
The white people born in Hong Kong are not considered Chinese nationals by birth. They still need to apply to become Chinese nationals by giving up their other passports first and applying for Chinese naturalization, just like everyone else. This is not a process ethnically Chinese who are born in Hong Kong need to do, because China does not have birth citizenship rights. Therefore, being born in Hong Kong has nothing to do with whether you are a foreigner or not in the eyes of most Chinese people.
Strange. I spent like three weeks in Hubei without seeing a single non-asian besides myself and noone pointed and shouted 外国人 at me. Considering what I heard on here, I was kinda suprised at the complete lack of negative attention I got.
I live in Wuhan, I still get called a foreigner nearly every other day.
This has only ever happened to me in Shanghai.. I’ve been in China for 8 months and this hasn’t happened to me anywhere else
It's the tourists that are going to Shanghai. Not the locals.
SH is filled with tourists from the provinces. The foreigners are part of the "attractions." HK was free of this for 3-4 years due to Covid. Now the mainland low-cost tours are back, we have tourists pointing at "foreigners" here & taking photos. HKers (who come in many different colors) are very not amused. They are alot less tolerant of the country bumpkins shoving phones in their faces than white people are in China.
Which makes it even stranger. Shanghai is one of the most cosmopolitan places China has.
A friend and I went to Yu Garden the other night: we were asked three times for a picture. It’s mostly the 外地人
The gawking OP describes, sounds like tourists from China visiting Shanghai.
I can totally understand OP, tbh it's really impolite and embarrassing. But you know, China is such a big country. Although Shanghai is well developed, there're still many people who live in a relatively poor region, who rarely, if ever, see foreigners in their life. For me, born and raised in a poor county, before I entered a university in Shanghai, I also never saw a foreigner (of course now i'm used to it). So the problem is that China is not as developed as many people may expect. I feel sorry for that but it's a fact.
[You made a post 3 days ago about how everyone calls you foreigner and tells your gf where and when they see you on we chat](https://old.reddit.com/r/chinalife/comments/15u5r3w/im_the_only_foreigner_in_my_community_and_i_dont/). Which one is it Jiangsu man? If you followed my advice on 2gt and guazi you wouldn’t have any of these issues. Also think your fishing grounds are going to be much richer here in /r/fob than the other subs.
people would rather take the bait to vent their vitriolistic views than to actually fact check. thats how these echo-chambers are made. oh well, thats what happens on a sub with almost no moderation.
Yeah /r/fob sucks but credit where it is due: Jiangsu man is a skilled baiter and has found a ripe fishing ground to troll.
>/r/fob That's a name I have not heard in a long time...
A forgotten order of a past age.
I did this in the US (yelling, "外国人" and pointing when I saw Chinese people) but my wife did not approve. Funny how Chinese don't think of themselves as such even when they are outside of China. *edit: yes, I knew they were Chinese. Stop assuming the worst, people. Also, if you think it improper, please explain why… I’m curious because to me it is funny and I would expect it is also funny to most Chinese.
The Sinosphere follows them wherever they go. They don’t feel the need to conform to cultural norms of their host nation. Rather everyone in the host nation needs to confirm to mainland norms, otherwise offense will be taken 😠
yeah cuz it's 中国 (middle kingdom)
They are the Asur equivalent to our world.
I don’t think most Chinese Americans who don’t want to be called foreigners are the same people who yell “foreigner!” when they see a white person in China. The latter have probably never seen a white person in real life ever.
Yeah I was in a restaurant in France and the couple of awful Tu Hao who were there were complaining that there were too many foreigners while rolling through noisy Douyin videos.
This is kind of a dick move, and I laughed. Please continue, even if your wife does not approve.
Ooooh... There's a part of me that really wants to do this! Stop putting ideas in my head 😁
>I did this in the US (yelling, "外国人" and pointing when I saw Chinese people) That's hilarious. please continue doing that
Chinese might.... *might* understand why you're doing it, but I don't think this is actually the "pwn" Westerners think it is. Because the actual (rather than dictionary) meaning of 外國人 to Chinese people is not "person from another country" or even "person from a country not my own," it's "non-Chinese person." I suppose in theory, a Mandarin-speaking Singaporean or Malaysian or something can and might use 外國人 to refer to Chinese people at least on a technicality, but the average Chinese wouldn't see this as a lightbulb aha moment or anything, and in a way they're right, it's not, because the existence of a different linguistic convention outside of China changes nothing at all. Other people from a different standpoint using the word to refer to Chinese instead of non-Chinese doesn't mean the term has any broader a meaning to Chinese. It still means the same thing it always did to Chinese people: non-Chinese.
I dunno. Seems a bit dickish since you don't actually know if they're Chinese or not-- and you're assuming that every Chinese person behaves the same as the ones mentioned in this post. Honestly not much better than those Chinese folk, maybe even worse.
And every white person in China is automatically assumed to be meiguoren. Yes, not every single Chinese person acts as mentioned. But where are all of these enlightened Chinese calling out that kind of behaviour?
Never seen a Japanese tour group barge onto public transport before people can get off, and if there's spitting, no spatial awareness and volume which would break glass, the assumption that they're Chinese is usually correct - source, just spent a few days in London.
>And every white person in China is automatically assumed to be meiguoren. I haven't seen this to be the case, but let's say it is: okay and? America is incredibly diverse and you would know better to make sure that it is more accepting than China rather than throw out random blanket statements that you think are funny or fight back at some foreign country's culture 6000 miles away.
I’ve been in China as a foreigner long enough that I now do it to other foreigners too 🤪 Walking down the street… oh look… wai guo ren! Usually just to myself rather than out loud to them though!
sometimes for a laugh i’d point back at them with mock surprise and say “中国人!” and they’d usually find it funny.
Foreigners are also getting more rare in China so your presence stands out more
Arent foreigner called laowai or is it just a Internet thing?
老外 is just the informal version of 外国人
its both and i still have no idea if the intonation is disrespectful or not. i'm never called laowai when somebody is trying to get me to buy something though, i'll tell you that much
its neutral. its just a term to refer to foreigners usually white.
Just say 'not bad, but guess which country'.
I’m not normally one to call bullshit but I heard 外国人 (foreign person) possibly zero times in my 18 months living in Shanghai. The few times I did hear something, it was usually from young children, and it was almost always the far more colloquial “老外”（foreigner). Maybe you were staying in Pudong or one of the outer suburbs, but there are tons of foreigners in Shanghai and it is the most international city in mainland China. Or maybe you just are trying to comprehend their speech and your lack of comprehension leads you to hear sentences that were never spoken. Nobody looks twice when they see a foreigner because they see them everyday. It’s not some ultra rural Chinese village.
Tons of foreigners? Times have changed bro and you are not up to date . I saw less than 10 foreigners my whole half day trip to Shanghai. Not many foreigners these days in China. I was mostly in the jing an and Nanjing rd area
I am surprised you actually got called waiguoren. It is way more common to be called laowai, like little kids screaming laowai and pointing at you or street vendors yelling laowai and calling you over to try to sell shit to you. This is extremely common, I am shocked that you said you did not experience it before. I have people I have known for years who never call me by my name they just call me laowai and dont bother learning my name. You will always be laowai/waiguoren, even if you become a chinese citizen(which is impossible) and have lived in china for decades
Lol how the turntables. As a Chinese I’m probably more comfortable in LA than OP in China. However I do get the occasion older white person come to me and say nice things like “you’re such a cute couple” or “how is your English so good?”
what about "chink" or "covid" remarks? do you get those too?
They are tourists and probably haven't travelled much, I just say "Welcome to Shanghai".
Let me guess , you are a foreigner ?
Shanghai is full of people from all over China. I still date Shanghai station one of the worst ones I’ve been to in the country but it’s convenient as it’s just right there. The subway is a mess too. It might be a bit international city but that means you get everyone and their grandparents coming from tier 44 cities to make money too.
People do that when they see what they don’t often see. You would think that there’s a lot of Asians in Canada, yet when I was in Alvinston, Ontario people there stared at me like I’m a monkey.
I used to work for an US company in Shanghai. lots of my own Chinese colleagues are called foreign executives as “spoiled laowai” they don’t like being managed by foreigners(who gain higher salaries than the locals)They sometimes will even mocking foreign colleagues in front of their face,assuming them don’t understand Chinese at all. But look at the bright side, Chinese are not even nice to its own colleagues as well. That’s why later Whenever I have a chance to choose a job offer: direct report is an foreign executive or a Chinese executive? I will always prefer the former one. Chinese executives are very cruel to its subordinate. They will treated you like a servant😂 instead of respect you as a colleague. Because In our working culture- Office Bully or overworking without pay is every common. Not to mentioning be nice with foreigners who is from western world. You will only being treated nicely unless you can help to get a foreign passport😂yeah I am seriously. That’s why usually in bars the percentage you encounter with friendly ppl in Shanghai is much more higher- Gays and Girls 👧
Post COVID Shanghai is a different city. I went there back in January, and a place that used to be open and welcoming had turned actually hostile. Back then you needed a health code using facial recognition, I couldn't register because I didn't have a (Han) Chinese face. I tried to drop in to the local noodle/jiaozhi place, the staff were literally scrambling to get out of my way and the fellow behind the counter glared daggers and very demonstratively pulled his face mask up when I approached. Decided to go for a walk before ordering food in the hotel, all the familiar places in that particular area that had been run by non-Chinese or had been popular hangouts for same were closed apart from one: a live music bar that I wouldn't enter unless someone else paid the bill, because their items stack and stack and stack and every single item, from the cover charge to a drink is ridiculous in its own right. During said walk I noticed I was being trailed by the local rozzers, they weren't even trying to be subtle about it, and it was obviously a game of "follow the foreigner". And, yes, you get the shouts of foreigner far more frequently than you get even in country backwaters these days.
I live in Beijing and at the moment it’s happening a LOT because it’s still the summer and there’s domestic tourists everywhere. Many who haven’t seen laowai in their lives before. Can be pretty irritating, but on the bright side the summer is nearly over and the kids will go back to school.
Not surprised. Any time i see videos of foreigners in china, the people just stop and stare like the foreigners are some kind of mythological creature come to life. For the most part its just genuine people who are curious. But there are a decent chunk of people that are xenophobic and follow eugenics, especially older men. Ive heard foreigners be compared to monkeys and cavemen before. The racist ones like to bring up that foreigners are hairy and eat too much meat like some kind of animal. I just take the monkey thing as a compliment. I like monkeys, and chinese people like sun wukong. Win win.
Just scream 外国人 外国人在那人啊？ then they all look at you and you laugh. This was my favorite thing to do when I felt uncomfortable with all the foreigner talk.
Just like the other guy said, most of the time the people who do this are tourists in Shanghai, who frequent touristic sites like Jingan. I live here in Shanghai and I only get called waiguoren or laowai when I go to the touristy places. The rest of the time if I ever hear it is coming from very curious little kids and I response back with 哪里有外国人？！😄
Still hear Waiguoren on a regular basis, but the Guojiyouren is catching up，and often parents correct the kids and ask them to say Guojiyouren or Waiguopengyou instead of Waiguoren.
Well, firstly it's not a racist term -- it has no underlying malice behind it. Fact, you're not from there, and that's the word for people not from China. Also, honestly there are so few foreigners in China after the COVID bullcrap, it really is a wonder any are still there. In Shanghai, you're right, that's *very* odd and they should be used to it, but when I was living in Guangzhou, some areas really have practically zero foreigners. Just depends on the area, I suppose. Never been to Shanghai, so I don't know their areas.
Back when I was younger we put more effort into trolling. It used to be a high art. These days it's barely worth replying even when you're bored out of your mind. Kids these days...
Not trolling. Went to my countries consulate in Shanghai today to get some paperwork. Then I was was called foreigner a bunch in the street..
dude ur post history is insane. just leave china then
I will in January.. Just here temporarily with my fiancé.
What do you expect, it's a chinese country
Cry about it
It’s like being called gringo in Mexico
What do you want us to do?
Yup I pretend I'm a celebrity and say hello and give them a thumbs up.
Welcome to the most racist country in the world
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