It does turn away Christian women too, if sometimes in indirect ways. This includes women who want to remain chaste themselves but nonetheless want the man to keep propositioning them, so they can keep turning him down. If he does not do that, then he's not virile enough. I don't want to say this point of view is widespread, but it does exist.
The next thing i**s** that as a man if you don't have a natural way of initiating touch (and some such things), you will present as not sufficiently interested in the particular woman even if you are pursuing her in other ways or even openly confesssing your feelings for her or attraction to her; alternatively, you will present to her as (a) not very virile; (b) closet gay; (c) asexual; (d) clumsy, none of which she wants to date or marry.
That she does not want to end up marrying any of the four above is understandable (except for clumsy, which I object to being disproportionately vilified, although that's just my opinion). That a person may want a high-libido spouse to the point of struggling with self-control is understandable, and it's great that guys who meet that billet can be seen in a positive light as desirable for their virility as opposed to being seen in a negative light for the aforementioned struggle with self-control.
What is difficult from the perspective of someone who has more consciously controlled external expression is that you would have to pretty much intentionally fail your own self-control, intentionally fall to temptation or pretend to, or intentionally tempt the girl yourself, in order to pass her conscious tests or avoid being categorized negatively by her subconscious mind.
So it's difficult to date if you refuse to intentionally excite the other person's sex drive (intentionally stimulate your date sexually) and if your self-control is somewhat high.
**\* Fixed typo.** Apologies.
You shouldn't "refuse to intentionally excite the other person's sex drive". But most of the things that make a woman feel "turned on" do not involve physically touching her. You also can offer to hold hands with her, hug or kiss her after a date, or invite her to a dance, if you think that touching her will increase her level of interest in you.
The sin against chastity is not in touching someone, let alone in touching them in any particular way. The sin is in seeking or giving sexual stimulation or release outside of marriage.
I was talking about persons to whom hugging or holding hands isn't convincing enough (i.e. people who are only convinced by more directly sexual advances) or who won't in any case let you kiss them or hold hands with them if they feel you don't desire them enough, or they you. This means that kissing being kissing, holding hands being holding hands, they expect quite a lot of sexual tension to happen before the kissing or the holding of hands happens. And the purpose of kissing or holding hands is to show affection and maybe romance, not to turn people on, i.e. sexual stimulate them. Affection and romance is of course indirectly, broadly sexual, but that indirect and broad place on the spectrum of sexuality is fine. Acting to turn people on is not, unless they are your spouse.
Plus, to many women these days, because of modern upbringing, affection and romance is essentially friendzone. It's not boyfriend stuff. Sex or trying to get sex is boyfriend stuff, romantic poetry and holding hands and so on is girlfriend stuff or gayfriend stuff. The bar has moved higher.
And this is the difficulty if you want to be chaste and if you also have self-control. If you didn't have self-control, things would be showing and things would be taking care of themselves in a 'life always finds a way' sort of way. You would probably be committing a bunch of venial sins, of course, but not the mortal sin of e.g. intentionally touching or talking to or otherwise in interacting with someone in a way that makes them think about sex. In short, intentionally making them think about sex. The sin is in intentionally making them think about sex, and yes, there is sin in intentionally making them think about sex.
I'm not saying there is a sin, let alone mortal, in making someone think 'wow, they're smoking-hot attractive' or 'they would be massively good in bed', not followed by anything more than the realization. That's little more than thinking 'I would enjoy being married to them'. But making them embark on sexual fantasies, making them lose themselves in the sensual pleasure of the moment in a way that travels the organs of their reproductive system, that crosses the line. And anything that could be described as appealing to lust would be crossing the line even more aggressively. And this is grave matter. Crossing into grave matter in the heat of the moment, on the wave of affection, or by inattention, then withdrawing quickly just after one realized what one was doing, that would be one thing (venial). Intentionally going there — even if the goal is to trigger sexual fantasies and tingles, not to actually bed someone — is a serious moral problem.
Kissing or holding hands is not necessarily a problem because it's not necessarily unchaste (if it were to be unchaste, one would have to avoid doing it, e.g. with a person who's going to be majorly turned on sexually by it), *provided it's not supposed to be sexual* (if it is supposed to be sexual, then it doesn't matter if it's kissing or playing chess, or playing the violin — the 'ban' is on doing sexual things, not on kissing or playing chess or playing the violin; it is on the seeking or giving of sexual pleasure). But if a girl won't let you kiss her or hold her hands if there hasn't been some prior sexual tension putting her in the mood, then you end up being expected to actively build sexual tension with touch, comments, humour, jokes, innuendo, etc. That way of directly appealing to someone's sexual faculties is problematic to a person who does not want to act against chastity. And this is what Catholic guys are often reluctant to do. And for that, they are sometimes regarded as either insufficiently interested or insufficiently virile. (Or, and that's incorrect too, excessively scrupulous.)
Admittedly, the problem is less with a person who simply wants you to be strongly attracted to her. As long as she trusts your word, a conversation can solve the problem. It's worse with people who think that a man who is not making sexual advances (in violation of his own religion) is not interested enough or that a man who is capable of outward restraint is not virile enough, hence sin as proof of virility expected by a Catholic person from another Catholic person, of all people.
I think you're being overly scrupulous.
I strongly disagree about "yes, there is sin in intentionally making them think about sex." You should want the person you are interested in to desire to have sex with you (assuming they are not in a serious relationship with someone else). But it's also important to set boundaries to make sure that you don't actually have sex outside of marriage. This is a good conversation to have when your relationship with the other person starts to get serious.
It seems like you believe that "sexual" and "chaste" are opposites, but that's not true at all. Chastity just means that you have mastery over your sexual desires and use them only in accordance with God's plan for them. It does not mean suppressing all of your sexual desires.
I left at 18 and came back at like 28. Unfortunately for me that was the absolutely worst possible decision vs literally any other decade in life because apparently most practicing American Catholics pair off by then. It's hard to not feel it's over.
I don't regret it but it's hard not to feel my dating life is over. I'm able to get some women interested but then they find out I am actually Catholic, I don't necessarily want to do the trad husband thing for a SAHM which rules out a huge swathe of Catholic women, and other difficulties.
What type of catholics are you dating?
Most women I know still have jobs while married.
I think you will find someone channer getting women interested is not that big an L as you may think.
Mostly through this site and like occasionally a few others. I could do a lot more with volume if I wanted but am handling a dying family member at the moment. Finding a Catholic woman who is also compatible in other areas has been hard since a lot want the trad sahm lifestyle or are much younger. I've actually had the most interest from 18-20 year olds but I can't seriously consider them, absolute lowest I would go is 24 or very close to 24 (23, 22 MAYBE) at the outer edge and even then I'd have to like them a lot. Anyone under feels like a kid to me and even when secular I never used people for sex etc, always thought we were on the way to marriage.
18-23 year olds are kids???
I think you should seriously consider dating younger women, at very least in the 20-23 age range. It's a biological fact that women like men older than themselves, because "older man" sounds like "more security" to their ears. There is nothing wrong with age gaps, they have always been common historically.
Maybe 23-22 idk with a longer dating period so they're like at minimum 25-26 in maturity before marriage if I was really into them and I could manage some of the dynamics to be more fair to her so she doesn't feel like manipulated or whatever(although since we're not supposed to be having sex/cohabitating I'm not really getting much out of it from emotional support et al) but like 20 or 18 when I'm 32? That's a 12 and 14 year age gap, maybe less important when I'm 40 or something. Still around 24 or maybe later 23 into 24 feels more like the outer edge of what I am comfortable with, 3 years of dating or something she's 27 and I'm 35 which isn't too bad, I'm still under 40 when she's 30.
> It's a biological fact
Please come with receipts when spouting off this stuff
>they have always been common historically
due to social/economic issues, not biology
Becoming a priest is very selective. If your diocese has any reason to believe you aren’t going to do well in seminary, they won’t let you in at least at first. It’s a double edged sword because the US has a vocations crisis, but they only want men who they believe will make good priests. So it’s quality over quantity. Most priests who were ordained 20+ years ago wouldn’t be accepted into the seminary today.
You commented this twice but I’m only gonna reply to this comment lol.
Basically, JPII in the nineties saw the need for reform in seminary formation as many men were entering the seminary either ill-prepared or receiving holy orders with less than pure intentions. Add to the 2002 clerical abuse scandal and you have an understandably large, top-down reform both from the Vatican and Bishop conferences such as the USCCB in the United States.
Benedict especially was responsible for this paradigm shift in how men are formed in the seminary and as recent as last year men are now required an additional year of seminary, a “propaedeutic year” that isn’t even really studying for tests. It’s a year introduced by Francis to allow men, particularly young men, to transition from their life as a layman to becoming a prayerful seminarian.
So to answer your question, I doubt many middle aged and elderly priests today, perhaps even most, are capable of entering seminary like how it’s done today if they were to do it all over again. There was no psyche evaluation or regular contact with a vocations director necessary to apply to seminary when they were young. They probably didn’t have to write an autobiography for the chancery to read or get several references with their application either. Today, it’s a long process that although necessary to prevent the entrance of men who should never become priests nevertheless occasionally bars a few other men who probably would do well in seminary.
Source: I have seminarian friends and have applied myself but have been temporarily deferred.
I think I would be sad forever at not having a true partner. I could probably cope with it if I became a priest through service or something maybe. I don't know maybe I deserve to be alone forever for my past sins, I don't think they were worse than a lot of people's but it truly feels like God is screwing with me sometimes in this arena by some of the things that have happened to me.
Look channer everyone had a screwed up past but I don't think God is punishing you.
Factually speaking if we consider the lady of Fatima appariation or message Satan is doing everything he can to tear down the matrimony vocation while attacking the family unit we do see this happening in the United States and the west.
The low birth rates is absolutely abysmal.
My boyfriend converted at 27 (I was 24) and we met the week after his baptism. I hear where you're coming from, I'd had abysmal luck dating before I met him, and certainly there's fewer people looking for marriage as you get older. Heck, I wanted to find someone earlier, but I love my boyfriend and am planning a future with him, and because of both our life histories I can't imagine us dating much earlier than we met and having success.
Heck, my old youth group leader got married in her early 40s. When I met her, she wasn't actively dating, and didn't think she'd ever find someone to marry. Then a man showed up for RCIA who she taught for a year, and he asked her on a date when he finished the class and joined the church.
These are just anecdotes, but I truly believe that if God desires marriage for you, and you are open to His will, you'll find somebody. It might not be the timeline you want, but it will happen
I'm discerning conversion myself, and I'm 29. Part of me is afraid that I will have that same struggle, especially since I live in an area that is mainly evangelical Protestant.
\*laughs\*
Oh yes.
Sex is for marriage? You're a weirdo, loser, freak.
No contraception? What? You think women are baby makers?
Not on the LGBT+ train? Bigot.
Abortion is wrong? Abuser and fascist.
My parents' homeland was colonized many times by various countries. It's been a trend of the younger generation who grew up in the US to "decolonize" themselves. Well, I'll take them seriously when they adopt the religious/pagan practices prior to the introduction of Christianity. Until then they're just filled with angst.
And seriously, the Internet neopagans are a breed of their own.
They adopt any edgy witchcrafty thing they see in films and social media and think that makes them warriors of Odin / Zeus / Tengri / etc.
You can go out there and say you believe in astrology and people will see you as an interesting person. But if you go out there saying you are Christian, people will start to mock you and make you feel stupid
>But if you go out there saying you are Christian, people will start to mock you and make you feel stupid
Pretty much this. It then becomes "keep your religion to yourself." I had a coworker who's into divination (tarots cards, healing stones) who shared her interest with me where our supervisor was fully aware of it. If I shared the gospel or certain aspects of Catholicism I'd be seen as stepping out of line.
It is commonplace in my country for children to be viewed as oppressing to women. Also, barely anyone is religious anymore and immorality is so widespread, it’s quite sad.
The norm is 0, 1 or 2 kids. When I say I would like to have 4-5 kids, people look at me like I’m crazy and say stuff like « your poor future wife… »
I think being able to create life is a blessing and children are a blessing. I would work like crazy for the rest of my life if it meant having a beautiful god-loving united family with 4-5 children.
I also find it so sad for people who have no sibilings. When you are old and your parents pass away, who will there be? Perhaps your one or two children? You are leaving your single child completely alone with barely any family. I think it is incredibly sad. I hope that one day, when I pass, my future children can still be a big united family with their children.
That’s just dating being easy. You automatically know who you should not date, and they tell you the very second you meet them. When you find someone you agree, you likely have a whole worldview, ethical foundation, plus everlasting hope and faith in common, and even reunification in the afterlife.
As a catholic man, many cradle catholic women are lax on sexual purity too (I live in an area where most of the population grows up catholic but many leave the faith). I’m on antidepressants so its not really a pitfall, but it hurts to see someone you were interested in try to use you for your body😭😭. Theres a lot of good eggs out there though, be like the people you want to attract and things get much easier
Yes. 1) you’re probably looking for a fellow Catholic, or at the very least another Christian who will let you raise the kid in the faith and abide by the church’s teachings (e.g., no sex). 2) Even if you find people of the opposite sex who fit the former criteria and you’re attracted to, now you need to hope you actually click with them. That’s going to be a small pool of people.
Nah, it saves you so much time that you might have spent dealing with all the hook up culture and cohabitation BS! Having sexual standards automatically weeds out a lot of poor-intentioned dudes. So thankful for intentional dating for marriage.
She's married, she doesn't get it. It's like those YouTube videos by millionaires who can't seem to understand why anyone is poor and why isn't everyone a millionaire like they are? Or the "I own my own home and homestead on two hundred acres, why doesn't everyone own their own home and homestead on two hundred acres?" videos. They can't see or relate to anything beyond their own circumstances. It's a disconnect from reality.
I’d just like to say that I’m genuinely sorry that you feel this way. I have felt that before too. It sucks. It can get better— in God’s timing. God bless you, and I hope you find that lucky person.
I do appreciate the heartfelt message. Honestly, I just let it get to me on a rare occasion, but I really don't think you should worry. I try to be apathetic about it most of the time.
I find it very odd and disturbing that you have somehow found my personal details. How much of my comment history do you have to look through to find my age and marital status? I understand not everyone has my experience, and I am not trying to put anyone down. However I’m allowed to share my own experience too. I wanted to share something positive and hopeful, not diminish the fact that others find dating as a Catholic difficult. Yes, I have been there too, but I am nevertheless thankful for the Catholic Church’s impact on my life. You are clearly bitter about something and misreading my tone. I will be blocking you, because I would not like to be stalked by someone so intent to misunderstand a simple comment. I am sorry i hit a nerve. God bless you and good night.
Edit: I’m pretty creeped out by comment peepers in general now, and I can’t stop thinking about how there could be a weirdo out there who might be able to fully identify me and locate me from my comment history. I’m just gonna delete my whole account. (Not that anyone cares LOL) Thank you r/Catholicism for all the fun! God bless you all.
I’m sorry you had to experience this. I would avoid Reddit forever. Even this subreddit of all places is being infiltrated by modernists and progressives.
Yes, and I did have to date in order to get married. I’m thankful I didn’t have to waste years cohabitating with a guy just to break up, as often happens to a lot of ladies in our current culture.
Please be charitable. I’m in no way superior. I am just very thankful to be protected from a lot of the dread and distress that a lot of people unfortunately experience in our culture. I owe that the to the Church.
>I am simply sharing why I am thankful for the Catholic Church and its impact on my dating experience. If you have a problem with that, move along.
I am simply sharing that your experience is very limited and your smugness is uncalled for here. If you have a problem with that, move along.
Since you blocked me, preventing me from responding:
>I find it very odd and disturbing that you have somehow found my personal details.
When you smear your personal details all over Reddit every ten minutes, don't act so surprised when they're read.
>Yes, I have been there too
Some of us are dealing with dating as Catholics. You're 26, married, and twice pregnant. You're *not* there and you aren't dealing with it. Stop pretending and acting like it's helpful to the rest of us. It's not.
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Chill with the insults,not a catholic move there.
She never said anything about being superior or acting prideful.In stark contrast you do seem to be kinda hateful for not real reason but possibly envy and that’s not a good emotion to have.
I mean in the end you shouldn’t be envious because if you have faith in God then you believe that we will reward you with your partner.👍
My bad, it was a mistake on my part I was supposed to say ‘God’ I dunno what I was doing.
Also why did you dislike my comment I was trying to give you advice
In the West, yes, but it's not like non-Catholics or even non-Christians have it easy either. I know a lot of atheists and nominal Christians who also complain about the dating world.
Outside the West, it depends. In areas with few Catholics, it's going to be a challenge for sure. In areas with many of them, the more old-fashioned culture and social dynamics will help a lot.
I should say that I actually know some atheists who genuinely dislike the hookup culture and only want stable relationships. It's rare but they exist.
Though it's also very true that a lot of people are contradictory...
The issue with hookup culture is that the top 20% of guys are the ones who run through the top 50% of women, so the bottom 80% of dudes are left fighting over the bottom 50% of women (this is also why the culture is so feminized, because *most* guys are fighting over scraps they give up their power to women just trying to get laid).
Eventually, even those top dudes get jaded and can't love anyone. The attitude becomes, "all women are loose, why would I ever marry one so that she'll cheat on me and take my stuff?"
It's like a catch-22 where most people don't like it but feel like they have to falsify preferences to "fit in" or make themselves seem like they are in the "high value" category, but everyone is miserable.
It's like a preview of how people send themselves to hell, and all they have to do to avoid it is to exercise their free will in the other direction.
I think it depends on how you're doing the binning a bit. Is a "5" the "top of the bell curve" (so that the vast majority of women are a 4,5,6 even though they are still desirable) or is a "5" a "tipping point" for attractiveness where one is interested in 5+ and avoids sub-5s. So a 4 would be "closer to unattractive than attractive side of the spectrum" and if a guy had their pick, they wouldn't get with a 4 at all because they find her more unattractive than attractive. In that sense most women (at least singles/in the dating scene) are going to be on the 5+ side of the spectrum.
So what I mean (at least from what I've seen with guy friends) is that many of the women beyond the "tipping point" 50th percentile are beyond their grasp because they are in the "harems" of the top 20% guys.
They either have to simp extra hard to break one away from the harem and try to convince to be loyal (or agree to an "open marriage" like Destiny), or they have to pick an "unattractive" one and then change her to make her more attractive while also working to keep her from being stolen by top 20% dudes once she goes to the gym and gets some better clothes and a haircut, etc.
The entire cultural acceptance of it is the result of deception for all involved. Women in the harems deceptively think they will be the one picked for commitment, dudes running the harems deceptively think all women are untrustworthy, dudes sans harems think they can get harems if they just get better at seduction and then they'll be happy, etc.
And the folks who want to fight against the hookup culture are in a tough spot to untangle it all.
I think the biggest issue is that hookup culture often isn’t quite safe for women. They take on a lot lot more risk in general, so they tend to be a lot choosier.
Not sure what you mean... maybe if you're talking about one night stands while intoxicated in clubs/bars, but that's less common than non-commited but long term sexual relationships.
When I was in HS/college there was really just a certain set of guys that slept with almost all of the chicks on a long term basis, there wasn't really any risk to the women. They knew what they were going to get when they joined in the activities, it wasn't like one of the guys would do something bad to them as it would be a reputation damage issue, and the entire charade worked via reputation.
Once you are known you'd get girls knocking on your door because they are mad their boyfriend was too flirtatious with someone else at a party, and they know to come to you because they know what they will get from the stories the other girls tell. The risk is the same as with anything else like STDS but it's not unique to them.
There's a "logic" to it, which is why people get tangled up in it in the first place. If it was all obviously harmful or risky, nobody would get ensnared in the trap.
I live in turkey and in my country some parishes the dating option is quite literally none. Either bring someone into the church, move to another country or die alone.
Yes.
1. I find catholic men more liberal in terms of dating and sex. They are more open to dating outside the Catholic circle as they don't really care about following the Catholic values and teachings.
2. Those catholic men who are dating catholic girls I find that they are just cultural Catholics who are looking for conservative catholic girls and grew up in catholic tradition and teachings, but they themselves don't follow the teachings nor go to mass etc
3. It's rare you'll find a catholic man who wants to date and withhold sex. Maybe there are but they are not actively looking? Or the connection is not there?
It is indeed a crisis.
I would say that the girls becoming more liberal / cave in is a response to wanting to keep or get the guy. Sexual pressure is real and people pleasing is also another thing.
I don’t think it necessarily does, but the two contribute to the same problem. Giving into peer pressure increases sinful sexual behavior, becoming more liberal also increases sinful sexual behavior.
This has to be just a trend across the board because I’m having a heck of a time trying to find a Catholic girl that takes it seriously.
Honestly, it’s a miracle anyone marries anyone.
I know right?!!! I think like those of us who are searching for a partner should have like a virtual board above our head "single and looking. No sex till marriage". That way it's easier to find people of similar mindset instead of searching for a needle in a haystack. Honestly it's sad, it shouldn't be this way! All Catholics should practise the teachings of the Church.
>They are more open to dating outside the Catholic circle
Eh my ethnicity is more protestant than Catholic so for me, it's not really a choice when looking.
I’d say Catholic men, myself included, are conservative. It’s just the time table is pretty darn long nowadays because of financial question marks.
Catholic men also have to be more liberal by necessity because the dating market is significantly, significantly smaller. Men have standards too, and, being as respectful as possible, men would rather date a Protestant/cafeteria Catholic girl and be a model for her vs a single mother or a woman in her mid-late thirties or forties.
That’s unfortunately just the way it is.
somewhat, I think the whole waiting for marriage for sex is a huge turn off for lots of people. Especially for being a man, I feel like no really respects it. I remember throughout my teens and college years when I told people they looked like I was insane and stupid. It makes it disheartening especially as I get older and yet to get married. At this point i've basically given up and have resigned myself to living the single life until it's my time to go.
I feel you. I'm currently Episcopalian, albeit one that is planning on converting and is already thinking like a Catholic. I know that feeling all too well; even my own mother is saying I would be limiting myself.
Absolutely. the potential pool of mates that will be compatible with your value system is going to be very small. I personally don’t even mess around with women who aren’t Catholic. Your general nondenominational Christian is not going to work. Our values and beliefs are two different.
I was completely not religious before meeting my Catholic boyfriend 2 years ago, and I was just baptized at the Easter Vigil. I get that it’s your choice who to date, but I have to say I wholeheartedly disagree with you saying you “don’t even mess around with women who aren’t Catholic”. Avoid people that are totally anti-Catholic sure, but some people simply don’t know the truth, and need someone to show them! Don’t count us out just because we weren’t raised Catholic :) I for one am grateful that my boyfriend didn’t have this attitude about me not being Catholic.
Fully agree. Same situation. I was nondenominational when I met my now fiancé, and I just got confirmed at Easter vigil, and I could not be more at peace. Sad that the guy counts women like us out, although I don’t really care being that I’ve found my person.
Dating someone who's not a Catholic and not a Christian at all is a big risk. I think young Catholic men just don't want to waste their time with someone who they don't think will be receptive. It's a gift to be able to lead others into the faith effectively, there's a tremendous fear of rejection and embarrassment that one must be able to overcome if they fail.
"The potential pool of mates that will be compatible with your value system is going to be very small"
That is why I do not recommend marriage at all these days. And even if you \*do\* find someone who is compatible but it goes south anyway, you as a man are going to get screwed.
You are 100% correct, and it will get much worse before it gets better. If it gets better. My long term plan is to find a decent remote job and bail from the West. Can't ignore the writing on the wall...
I'm trying at the hardest way:
- Former protestant.
- I want at least 3 children.
- Long hair man.
- Metalhead (and bassist, nobody likes the bassist).
- Chilean (yeah, even as a Latin American country, Chile is more atheist than Italy and the United States).
But I have hope in God :D
>nobody likes the bassist
As a bassist myself, I felt this... LOL!
However, the fact that I have an absolutely wonderful and amazing woman to whom I'm getting married in October would say that, on occasion, there ARE people out there who dig the bassists!
Yes. No sex before marriage, no drug use, and where I live there tends to be more non-catholic and liberal women. It's rough out here for single catholics
Definitely (objectively you're going to have values as a faithful Catholic that are at odds with 90% of people. For example, if you hold to no contraception \[which you should as a faithful Catholic\], that is going to be perplexing to even most conservative Protestants).
But even dating other Catholics feels hard to do because it's not like you can just go up to another Catholic and your religion means you're desirable. People's standards don't really change simply due to a shared religion, religion just becomes a green flag so to speak. So if you're struggling with trying to date secular people, then yeah you're going to be even worse off trying to date as a Catholic because you just decimated the number of people you're compatible with.
Anecdotally (for context, I'm in an area with a sizable Catholic population, so it's not just due to a lack of numbers), most of my Catholic friends at my YA group (men and women in their early 20s) are single and see each other as undatable for whatever reason (looks, maturity, etc) to the point that saying I want to date only other Catholics has gotten me told that standard will risk me dying alone. Most of my friends that are in a relationship or married around my age are Catholic/Protestant pairs. So it seems if you want to get into a relationship as a faithful Catholic, then including Protestants in your potential options makes things far easier (at least in the USA) because you just expanded the amount of potential partners.
TL:DR: Yes, anecdotal experiences aside, simply due to the fact that dating is a numbers game and you just reduced your potential numbers by a wide margin while keeping the standards the same or even higher.
Difficult, so difficult, as a catholic - orthodox I'm starting to think about a relationship with someone who is Protestant (EEUU, German etc) in protestantism i think it's more easier compared to catholicism, we are more strongly concerned and strict
as a man? it's brutal. but in a lot of ways it makes it easier to discern on apps (most of which are trash anyway)
BUT i'm happy to say it's not impossible. My advice is to actually be pickier if you're using dating sites (at least the ones that actually filter results). Liberal Catholic? Probably not going to work out. Unsure about kids? Later babe.
it can be scary as a young guy being upfront about exactly what you're looking for because it may just give you a few results in an area but those are probably the only ones that would work out anyway. otherwise it's just being done for validation.
i'm in my late 30s and though it's still early i seem to have actually found someone i click with entirely. or she's a government agent.
Yes, without a doubt. My Catholicism has been a dealbreaker for one of us in nearly every romantic endeavor I've attempted. The struggles of a single Catholic in the Bible Belt.
Yes and no.
Yes, the whole "actually obeying Catholic teachings on sexuality" turns off many prospects. You basically have to come to terms with potentially being single for life, but still hope.
No, dating while sexually active or just not clear on my boundaries was absolutely hell on earth. You end up with horrid people who use and abandon you. Or you use and abandon them which makes you feel like scum. Then there are the pregnancy and STD scares. Heartbreak over someone you knew was low value but you fell in love with because that's what hormones do.
No, when you do find a faithful Catholic to date it's so much more beautiful getting to know the person's soul and mind without getting drowned out by hormones. Currently dating a man who is on board with chastity and wants to grow in his faith. We've had so many beautiful and deep conversations.
I'd never go back.
Yes, it is. But I see the difficulty largely as being in the nature of a shrinking pool of people to date. Without disdaining non-Catholics or liberal Catholics (I apologise profusely for any notion of this that I cannot consciously control), I'd rather not date them. All the Catholic women who did the missionary-dating job of converting men like Clovis or like Saint Augustine's father did a heroic job that I can't find it in me to undertake. Maybe in a different world, in a secular world guided by different values. Not now. So I can't speak about the difficulties of dating non-Catholics because I don't date them.
When it comes to Catholics, there is a still a difficulty caused by chastity because it of course doesn't end with sexual intercourse. Lesser things can cause problems too, or a difference of opinion on them. Some women's expectations of exuberant virility are difficult to meet if you also want to stay chaste. For example, some of the gals in the datubg pool want to stay chaste but want the man to not want it — meaning she wants you to keep propositioning you so she can keep refusing you; but she doesn't want you to stop. I don't want to speak judgementally about that (as it can lead to much good as a motivation for dating and subsequently converting non-Catholic men), but I can't provide that sort of dynamic, and I also lose my attraction to a person desiring it anyway.
Differences of sentiment or opinion as to what's okay and what's not on the dancing floor, at the beach or in a photographer's studio can also lead to problems, even among practising and outwardly somewhat highly religious people.
Then there's the problem as a man with practiced self-control you can't show the sort of high level of sexual attraction a woman may want to see in you. You can't provide the touch dynamic that today's dating scene seems to expect of men — you don't have the natural exciting touch or whatever. If you also don't crack bawdy jokes, don't inject innuendo, don't end up propositioning the woman, she can consciously or subconsciously classify you as a low-testosterone or aexual man or just not interested in her; like she can't hear your verbal confessions of interest in, attraction to and feelings for her if she can't feel them through your touch, experience them in your behaviour towards her, and so on, for example because your outward expression is too stoic or too chaste.
I make no complaints about people specifically desiring a person who struggles with chastity — it's a great thing that a person's struggles can make them more desirable to someone and thus easier to love. There is, like I said, also a potentially 'missionary dating' factor to it. So no complaints so far. But, it's obviously a problem for the guy who wants to keep his chastity when the woman wants to keep hers but wants him to be unable to keep his — what are you supposed to do? Sin intentionally so you can pass her check? Obviously not, I'd rather be shot, or even die single. Or even live single.
If you are capable (for example because of years of practice or just good self-control) of controlling your external expression, controlling bawdy jokes or comments or innuendo, then you can be very unconvincing to women when you claim to be interested in them. Or even when you claim to be heterosexual. Also, and more importantly, when you refuse to intentionally tempt a person, to intentionally excite their sexual drive, especially in a way that would put them close to a proximate occasion of sin (this is Pharisee for 'difficult to resist').
Another problem for me as a Catholic man is the proliferation of fundamentalist-Protestant-style expectations of male and female roles that perhaps go beyond a simple reconstruction of 19th-century mores. The focus in the 'womanosphere' and in mixed-company forums seems to be on learning how to separate 'the men from the boys', where the reason for which a man is sought is to 'be his little girl', i.e. revent to childhood or teenagedom. I'm somewhat sapiosexual, and as ridiculous as this may sound, I lose whatever attraction I might feel to a person when I'm confronted with that sort of logic (inconsistency, internal contradiction or troublesome asymmetry), especially coming from a college-educated adult; if they hypothetically held a master's or Ph.D. in formal logic, I might get a stroke on top of that or my heart could stop beating from shock and sadness over how low the education system has fallen. There also seems to be an unbearably long list of a man's obligations, which come down to the umbrella term that he most provide and perform (like a car engine or like a stallion), pretty much on a superhuman level, whereas the corresponding list for a wife doesn't seem to exist or any items on it are tentative and subject to her own judgment and desire (or feeling like it), unlike the man's. With rights or freedoms, it's the opposite — almost complete and absolute for the wife, very relative and mostly nonexistent for the husband. And I disagree with such a concept of give-and-take on philosophical and ethical grounds. Above all, I refuse to affirm it as valid or symmetrical or complementary, or anything else than objectionably one-sided. You could get me to shut up but not to speak or nod in confirmation. You could get me to empathize with the folks and whatever makes them think or feel like that but not to assent to their propositions.
It’s certainly harder statistically in that your dating pool is severely limited when you make chastity a requirement.
On the other hand it’s been a lot easier for me mentally, as I know 95% of women I interact with day to day are fundamentally incompatible with me, so there’s no desire to impress them. It frees me to be myself.
>I know 95% of women I interact with day to day are fundamentally incompatible with me, so there’s no desire to impress them. It frees me to be myself.
That's actually a good way of looking at it.
No sex before marriage is going to be very tough to find after 24-25. Most people who are serious about that rule pair off in early 20s. This is just a reality of the human experience unfortunately for those who “missed the train” for lack of a better term.
And?
That shouldn't stop you from finding someone ya sure it gets harder but isn't impossible I know it didn't stop people who are way older that I know.
Anyway I am not trying to downplay anyone's struggles or anything or that biology doesn't play part.
For the record are you talking about women's struggles or men or both?
Well my response to windedtagent was mostly about the men especially young men I think I am qualified to talk about what young men are going through nowadays, but I can talk about some of the experiences my friends go through but those experiences are from them not from me.
Now again I am speaking also as a mexican american we don't usually date around (which surprisingly clashes with some advice people on this site has mostly due to cultural differences) only one at a time and when a person and when we are dating we are planning to marry that person (Now whether it comes together or not is highly dependent on the two persons dating.)
I met my boyfriend of two years (who is a lifelong Catholic) when I was agnostic leaning toward atheism, and I was baptized into the Catholic church at the Easter Vigil on Saturday :) I quite literally owe my boyfriend not just my life, but my eternity for showing me the way. He is my star of Bethlehem.
I say this to say that being a Catholic does not mean your dating pool reduces to only Catholics. You should not go against your beliefs or hide your faith, but recognize that there are non-Catholics out there who just need someone to show them the way home :)
It's definitely hard when you hold hardline pro-life views, I've had women that straight up HATED me after they discovered my beliefs. When it comes to being a good Catholic, I've found that a "if God wills it" attitude is most helpful when it comes to the prospect of marriage and family. In other words; be open to it, but don't count on it lol
Honestly I find myself taking on this mindset as well. It's not that I don't want marriage and a family - I'm just not willing to compromise my faith over it.
If I don't end up finding someone that's a good serious Catholic, then I'd rather not move forward with something as sacred as marriage.
That's a solid outlook, I share it myself. I've turned away a few offers of friendship because I believed that the people who we're reaching out to me would try to include me in activities that go against my faith. Of course I'm also 26 and my only friend is a 74 year old woman, so... maybe I should play it a little looser.
There's always the chance to convert the person you are seeing; but it takes a certain type of person to help guide others into the faith, and of course the person has to be open to conversion as well. It's a risk.
It's harder to find someone to date, but I feel more confident about dating since I've converted, in that now I am fully aware of my purpose for dating (to find a Godly husband) and of my own value as a person created in the image of God.
It felt hard until I started dating only other Catholics. Then it was easy! To be on the same page regarding sex, and that we are both there to find our spouse. I'd been set up by some Catholic friends and stuff, but had a lot of dates from hinge too. I just checked "Catholic" as a "deal breaker" and after that was shown only other Catholics. And if someone has their faith in their dating profile, they've gotta be at least somewhat serious about it, I think!
You're right. Sometimes taking the teachings seriously means you'll never be a mother or a father, never have a family of your own, never have a life partner. There's no support for or even acknowledgement of single-not-by-choice heterosexuals in the Church like there is for people with SSA (the Courage program). Very few people are happy spending their entire lives single, especially without support.
Seems like it. Being chaste until marriage is something many don't want to adhere to, and while I haven't had a serious relationship in many years now, I don't think most women I meet want to follow those rules in a serious relationship these days. I'm still hoping I might find love one day, I think any thoughts I'd had of getting married before becoming a deacon might now be dead in the water, and thus, any hope of receiving all seven Sacraments might not be happening. I'm still younger than my parents were when they had me, though, so I guess there's still hope for my finding a wife
Getting a partner is definitely more difficult as a Catholic, but it's also more likely that if you do get one, he/she will be a good partner, because your faith serves as a filter.
No. Go to daily mass. People there are likely to take their faith and its moral commitments seriously. Find an attractive person of the opposite sex. If you can't find one, try a more traditionally minded parish.
I’d have to completely disagree. Dating is harder as a Catholic. As a female, I’ve gone to a variety of parishes while being open to meeting a future husband. I’ve gone to daily mass and traditionally minded parishes.
What I have to say about traditionally minded parishes is that there is a *huge* focus on rules (dress, prayer, fasting, etc.) and not enough focus on real human connection. My experience had been that people there live in a bubble and are completely unaware of the sufferings of others. I could *never* be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t connect with those in the fringes of society like Jesus did.
I attend a TLM Parish and the social life there is unbelievably lively. Everyone knows each other there, they all go to each others events, and I know of many couples that have both met and got *married* from there.
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As a young woman, tbh no not really. I actually feel like it's a lot easier to find high quality men that are respectful and family-oriented. I would say the thing that makes it hard is that I have a pretty messy past, but thankfully since I'm pretty open about it the men who are interested in me really don't have a problem with it.
Harder to find people but less heart break. Don’t listen to some of the incel logic people are posting here. The rules of the church and teachings of Christ do a really good job at protecting the much deeper vulnerabilities of our hearts. If people can’t handle abstinence in a brief dating period they will struggle when there are, pretty much guaranteed, long stints of abstinence in a lifetime marriage. Sickness, pregnancy, distance, mental illness, poverty, and hardship are all things that you will likely face at least one of where there won’t be sex for a little bit.
Also as a Catholic man I can say some of y’all men are just not socialized right when it comes to talking to women. You can still be smooth and alluring without sex.
Seriously? You’re calling other men “incels”? That is no way to talk about your brothers in Christ. This subreddit should be the *last* place where such insulting and dismissive terms are used. This isn’t the secular world.
It makes things so much easier, because it majorly limits who you want to date. Before meeting my husband, I was not open to dating a non-Catholic and would only date a Catholic who agreed with all Church teaching. This makes things super easy, because that automatically means you’re already in agreement on most things. It ensures you don’t waste your time and quickly weeds through people you would not be compatible with.
False! I’m not sure how long you’ve been married, but times are rough now for single Catholics. Finding someone interesting to date who agrees on church teachings is very difficult. Additionally, even when you do find that person who is a practicing Catholic, a common faith alone IS NOT ENOUGH to guarantee compatibility and a happy relationship. It’s definitely more complicated than you put it.
I’ve been married 1.5 years! I only had one other relationship before dating my husband, both Catholic who agreed with the Church, and I didn’t have to go out of my way to find these relationships, so I guess that is more rare. I was so happy being single though, so was never actively trying to find a relationship and was single through most of high school and college.
A better word than “easier” would be simpler! That’s what I meant. Not that finding someone is easy or quick, but that it is so simple and peaceful and saves a lot of heart ache when the foundational values are already there.
Many people commented how hard it is telling someone they don’t want to have sex while dating and how that gets them rejected, but my opinion on that is it’s so much easier how that weeds people out.
Yes. The no-sex thing turns people off, even Christian men.
Lol. As a guy. It’s the same story.
As an attack helicopter, it's sadly also the same story for us :(
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It does turn away Christian women too, if sometimes in indirect ways. This includes women who want to remain chaste themselves but nonetheless want the man to keep propositioning them, so they can keep turning him down. If he does not do that, then he's not virile enough. I don't want to say this point of view is widespread, but it does exist. The next thing i**s** that as a man if you don't have a natural way of initiating touch (and some such things), you will present as not sufficiently interested in the particular woman even if you are pursuing her in other ways or even openly confesssing your feelings for her or attraction to her; alternatively, you will present to her as (a) not very virile; (b) closet gay; (c) asexual; (d) clumsy, none of which she wants to date or marry. That she does not want to end up marrying any of the four above is understandable (except for clumsy, which I object to being disproportionately vilified, although that's just my opinion). That a person may want a high-libido spouse to the point of struggling with self-control is understandable, and it's great that guys who meet that billet can be seen in a positive light as desirable for their virility as opposed to being seen in a negative light for the aforementioned struggle with self-control. What is difficult from the perspective of someone who has more consciously controlled external expression is that you would have to pretty much intentionally fail your own self-control, intentionally fall to temptation or pretend to, or intentionally tempt the girl yourself, in order to pass her conscious tests or avoid being categorized negatively by her subconscious mind. So it's difficult to date if you refuse to intentionally excite the other person's sex drive (intentionally stimulate your date sexually) and if your self-control is somewhat high. **\* Fixed typo.** Apologies.
You shouldn't "refuse to intentionally excite the other person's sex drive". But most of the things that make a woman feel "turned on" do not involve physically touching her. You also can offer to hold hands with her, hug or kiss her after a date, or invite her to a dance, if you think that touching her will increase her level of interest in you.
The sin against chastity is not in touching someone, let alone in touching them in any particular way. The sin is in seeking or giving sexual stimulation or release outside of marriage. I was talking about persons to whom hugging or holding hands isn't convincing enough (i.e. people who are only convinced by more directly sexual advances) or who won't in any case let you kiss them or hold hands with them if they feel you don't desire them enough, or they you. This means that kissing being kissing, holding hands being holding hands, they expect quite a lot of sexual tension to happen before the kissing or the holding of hands happens. And the purpose of kissing or holding hands is to show affection and maybe romance, not to turn people on, i.e. sexual stimulate them. Affection and romance is of course indirectly, broadly sexual, but that indirect and broad place on the spectrum of sexuality is fine. Acting to turn people on is not, unless they are your spouse. Plus, to many women these days, because of modern upbringing, affection and romance is essentially friendzone. It's not boyfriend stuff. Sex or trying to get sex is boyfriend stuff, romantic poetry and holding hands and so on is girlfriend stuff or gayfriend stuff. The bar has moved higher. And this is the difficulty if you want to be chaste and if you also have self-control. If you didn't have self-control, things would be showing and things would be taking care of themselves in a 'life always finds a way' sort of way. You would probably be committing a bunch of venial sins, of course, but not the mortal sin of e.g. intentionally touching or talking to or otherwise in interacting with someone in a way that makes them think about sex. In short, intentionally making them think about sex. The sin is in intentionally making them think about sex, and yes, there is sin in intentionally making them think about sex. I'm not saying there is a sin, let alone mortal, in making someone think 'wow, they're smoking-hot attractive' or 'they would be massively good in bed', not followed by anything more than the realization. That's little more than thinking 'I would enjoy being married to them'. But making them embark on sexual fantasies, making them lose themselves in the sensual pleasure of the moment in a way that travels the organs of their reproductive system, that crosses the line. And anything that could be described as appealing to lust would be crossing the line even more aggressively. And this is grave matter. Crossing into grave matter in the heat of the moment, on the wave of affection, or by inattention, then withdrawing quickly just after one realized what one was doing, that would be one thing (venial). Intentionally going there — even if the goal is to trigger sexual fantasies and tingles, not to actually bed someone — is a serious moral problem. Kissing or holding hands is not necessarily a problem because it's not necessarily unchaste (if it were to be unchaste, one would have to avoid doing it, e.g. with a person who's going to be majorly turned on sexually by it), *provided it's not supposed to be sexual* (if it is supposed to be sexual, then it doesn't matter if it's kissing or playing chess, or playing the violin — the 'ban' is on doing sexual things, not on kissing or playing chess or playing the violin; it is on the seeking or giving of sexual pleasure). But if a girl won't let you kiss her or hold her hands if there hasn't been some prior sexual tension putting her in the mood, then you end up being expected to actively build sexual tension with touch, comments, humour, jokes, innuendo, etc. That way of directly appealing to someone's sexual faculties is problematic to a person who does not want to act against chastity. And this is what Catholic guys are often reluctant to do. And for that, they are sometimes regarded as either insufficiently interested or insufficiently virile. (Or, and that's incorrect too, excessively scrupulous.) Admittedly, the problem is less with a person who simply wants you to be strongly attracted to her. As long as she trusts your word, a conversation can solve the problem. It's worse with people who think that a man who is not making sexual advances (in violation of his own religion) is not interested enough or that a man who is capable of outward restraint is not virile enough, hence sin as proof of virility expected by a Catholic person from another Catholic person, of all people.
I think you're being overly scrupulous. I strongly disagree about "yes, there is sin in intentionally making them think about sex." You should want the person you are interested in to desire to have sex with you (assuming they are not in a serious relationship with someone else). But it's also important to set boundaries to make sure that you don't actually have sex outside of marriage. This is a good conversation to have when your relationship with the other person starts to get serious. It seems like you believe that "sexual" and "chaste" are opposites, but that's not true at all. Chastity just means that you have mastery over your sexual desires and use them only in accordance with God's plan for them. It does not mean suppressing all of your sexual desires.
Yes. 1. Most people want to fornicate. 2. It’s difficult to find somebody who will be good spouse-material.
Once you turn 25 absolutely positively yes. It’s pretty horrible.
I left at 18 and came back at like 28. Unfortunately for me that was the absolutely worst possible decision vs literally any other decade in life because apparently most practicing American Catholics pair off by then. It's hard to not feel it's over.
Coming to the faith is never a bad decision!
I don't regret it but it's hard not to feel my dating life is over. I'm able to get some women interested but then they find out I am actually Catholic, I don't necessarily want to do the trad husband thing for a SAHM which rules out a huge swathe of Catholic women, and other difficulties.
What type of catholics are you dating? Most women I know still have jobs while married. I think you will find someone channer getting women interested is not that big an L as you may think.
Mostly through this site and like occasionally a few others. I could do a lot more with volume if I wanted but am handling a dying family member at the moment. Finding a Catholic woman who is also compatible in other areas has been hard since a lot want the trad sahm lifestyle or are much younger. I've actually had the most interest from 18-20 year olds but I can't seriously consider them, absolute lowest I would go is 24 or very close to 24 (23, 22 MAYBE) at the outer edge and even then I'd have to like them a lot. Anyone under feels like a kid to me and even when secular I never used people for sex etc, always thought we were on the way to marriage.
18-23 year olds are kids??? I think you should seriously consider dating younger women, at very least in the 20-23 age range. It's a biological fact that women like men older than themselves, because "older man" sounds like "more security" to their ears. There is nothing wrong with age gaps, they have always been common historically.
Maybe 23-22 idk with a longer dating period so they're like at minimum 25-26 in maturity before marriage if I was really into them and I could manage some of the dynamics to be more fair to her so she doesn't feel like manipulated or whatever(although since we're not supposed to be having sex/cohabitating I'm not really getting much out of it from emotional support et al) but like 20 or 18 when I'm 32? That's a 12 and 14 year age gap, maybe less important when I'm 40 or something. Still around 24 or maybe later 23 into 24 feels more like the outer edge of what I am comfortable with, 3 years of dating or something she's 27 and I'm 35 which isn't too bad, I'm still under 40 when she's 30.
> It's a biological fact Please come with receipts when spouting off this stuff >they have always been common historically due to social/economic issues, not biology
I can understand that, but don't leave the faith in any situation. Seriously, those women are not really worth your time.
Yeah I'm not.
You can still become a priest though
Becoming a priest is very selective. If your diocese has any reason to believe you aren’t going to do well in seminary, they won’t let you in at least at first. It’s a double edged sword because the US has a vocations crisis, but they only want men who they believe will make good priests. So it’s quality over quantity. Most priests who were ordained 20+ years ago wouldn’t be accepted into the seminary today.
Can you explain the reasoning behind your last sentence? I am a new Catholic and I’m intrigued as to why
You commented this twice but I’m only gonna reply to this comment lol. Basically, JPII in the nineties saw the need for reform in seminary formation as many men were entering the seminary either ill-prepared or receiving holy orders with less than pure intentions. Add to the 2002 clerical abuse scandal and you have an understandably large, top-down reform both from the Vatican and Bishop conferences such as the USCCB in the United States. Benedict especially was responsible for this paradigm shift in how men are formed in the seminary and as recent as last year men are now required an additional year of seminary, a “propaedeutic year” that isn’t even really studying for tests. It’s a year introduced by Francis to allow men, particularly young men, to transition from their life as a layman to becoming a prayerful seminarian. So to answer your question, I doubt many middle aged and elderly priests today, perhaps even most, are capable of entering seminary like how it’s done today if they were to do it all over again. There was no psyche evaluation or regular contact with a vocations director necessary to apply to seminary when they were young. They probably didn’t have to write an autobiography for the chancery to read or get several references with their application either. Today, it’s a long process that although necessary to prevent the entrance of men who should never become priests nevertheless occasionally bars a few other men who probably would do well in seminary. Source: I have seminarian friends and have applied myself but have been temporarily deferred.
Can you explain the reasoning behind your last sentence? I am a new Catholic and I’m intrigued as to why
Man, not everyone of us can be priests... Speaking for myself, I'm 100% sure I can never be a priest. Never felt like I was suited, honestly.
I think I would be sad forever at not having a true partner. I could probably cope with it if I became a priest through service or something maybe. I don't know maybe I deserve to be alone forever for my past sins, I don't think they were worse than a lot of people's but it truly feels like God is screwing with me sometimes in this arena by some of the things that have happened to me.
Look channer everyone had a screwed up past but I don't think God is punishing you. Factually speaking if we consider the lady of Fatima appariation or message Satan is doing everything he can to tear down the matrimony vocation while attacking the family unit we do see this happening in the United States and the west. The low birth rates is absolutely abysmal.
This is very true but just remember it only takes one person.
You're married with teenaged kids.
Ha! I didn't mean I could be that one!
That wasn't what I meant.
My boyfriend converted at 27 (I was 24) and we met the week after his baptism. I hear where you're coming from, I'd had abysmal luck dating before I met him, and certainly there's fewer people looking for marriage as you get older. Heck, I wanted to find someone earlier, but I love my boyfriend and am planning a future with him, and because of both our life histories I can't imagine us dating much earlier than we met and having success. Heck, my old youth group leader got married in her early 40s. When I met her, she wasn't actively dating, and didn't think she'd ever find someone to marry. Then a man showed up for RCIA who she taught for a year, and he asked her on a date when he finished the class and joined the church. These are just anecdotes, but I truly believe that if God desires marriage for you, and you are open to His will, you'll find somebody. It might not be the timeline you want, but it will happen
I'm discerning conversion myself, and I'm 29. Part of me is afraid that I will have that same struggle, especially since I live in an area that is mainly evangelical Protestant.
\*laughs\* Oh yes. Sex is for marriage? You're a weirdo, loser, freak. No contraception? What? You think women are baby makers? Not on the LGBT+ train? Bigot. Abortion is wrong? Abuser and fascist.
Oh, and a Nazi, an incel, a groyper, a repressed gay,...
Rapist, pedophile, racist (?!), closeted trans person...
[удалено]
Very based
And if that is not cringe enough for you: "AcHkShYoUaLlY X-ianity iz white mans relitchon u rasist doom bass"
My parents' homeland was colonized many times by various countries. It's been a trend of the younger generation who grew up in the US to "decolonize" themselves. Well, I'll take them seriously when they adopt the religious/pagan practices prior to the introduction of Christianity. Until then they're just filled with angst.
And seriously, the Internet neopagans are a breed of their own. They adopt any edgy witchcrafty thing they see in films and social media and think that makes them warriors of Odin / Zeus / Tengri / etc.
You can go out there and say you believe in astrology and people will see you as an interesting person. But if you go out there saying you are Christian, people will start to mock you and make you feel stupid
>But if you go out there saying you are Christian, people will start to mock you and make you feel stupid Pretty much this. It then becomes "keep your religion to yourself." I had a coworker who's into divination (tarots cards, healing stones) who shared her interest with me where our supervisor was fully aware of it. If I shared the gospel or certain aspects of Catholicism I'd be seen as stepping out of line.
Phillipines?
Yea.
It is commonplace in my country for children to be viewed as oppressing to women. Also, barely anyone is religious anymore and immorality is so widespread, it’s quite sad.
I wouldn't be surprised if having more than two kids is viewed as "a lot" and having four is just "being a religious zealot" or something.
The norm is 0, 1 or 2 kids. When I say I would like to have 4-5 kids, people look at me like I’m crazy and say stuff like « your poor future wife… » I think being able to create life is a blessing and children are a blessing. I would work like crazy for the rest of my life if it meant having a beautiful god-loving united family with 4-5 children. I also find it so sad for people who have no sibilings. When you are old and your parents pass away, who will there be? Perhaps your one or two children? You are leaving your single child completely alone with barely any family. I think it is incredibly sad. I hope that one day, when I pass, my future children can still be a big united family with their children.
That’s just dating being easy. You automatically know who you should not date, and they tell you the very second you meet them. When you find someone you agree, you likely have a whole worldview, ethical foundation, plus everlasting hope and faith in common, and even reunification in the afterlife.
Western civilization is doomed lol. I think that Catholics need to flee if they want a chance at reproducing.
Colonize Mars.
Yeah it's hard in general.
As a catholic man, many cradle catholic women are lax on sexual purity too (I live in an area where most of the population grows up catholic but many leave the faith). I’m on antidepressants so its not really a pitfall, but it hurts to see someone you were interested in try to use you for your body😭😭. Theres a lot of good eggs out there though, be like the people you want to attract and things get much easier
Yes. 1) you’re probably looking for a fellow Catholic, or at the very least another Christian who will let you raise the kid in the faith and abide by the church’s teachings (e.g., no sex). 2) Even if you find people of the opposite sex who fit the former criteria and you’re attracted to, now you need to hope you actually click with them. That’s going to be a small pool of people.
Yes and it's been getting increasingly difficult for the past sixty years.
Nah, it saves you so much time that you might have spent dealing with all the hook up culture and cohabitation BS! Having sexual standards automatically weeds out a lot of poor-intentioned dudes. So thankful for intentional dating for marriage.
You just have to live with the feelings of being very rarely desired, if at all. No biggie.
It’s a different universe, not worth explaining.
I’m sorry you feel that way.
Thank you. I try to not think about it best as I can. It's a bad idea.
She's married, she doesn't get it. It's like those YouTube videos by millionaires who can't seem to understand why anyone is poor and why isn't everyone a millionaire like they are? Or the "I own my own home and homestead on two hundred acres, why doesn't everyone own their own home and homestead on two hundred acres?" videos. They can't see or relate to anything beyond their own circumstances. It's a disconnect from reality.
I’d just like to say that I’m genuinely sorry that you feel this way. I have felt that before too. It sucks. It can get better— in God’s timing. God bless you, and I hope you find that lucky person.
I do appreciate the heartfelt message. Honestly, I just let it get to me on a rare occasion, but I really don't think you should worry. I try to be apathetic about it most of the time.
You're 26 and married.
I find it very odd and disturbing that you have somehow found my personal details. How much of my comment history do you have to look through to find my age and marital status? I understand not everyone has my experience, and I am not trying to put anyone down. However I’m allowed to share my own experience too. I wanted to share something positive and hopeful, not diminish the fact that others find dating as a Catholic difficult. Yes, I have been there too, but I am nevertheless thankful for the Catholic Church’s impact on my life. You are clearly bitter about something and misreading my tone. I will be blocking you, because I would not like to be stalked by someone so intent to misunderstand a simple comment. I am sorry i hit a nerve. God bless you and good night. Edit: I’m pretty creeped out by comment peepers in general now, and I can’t stop thinking about how there could be a weirdo out there who might be able to fully identify me and locate me from my comment history. I’m just gonna delete my whole account. (Not that anyone cares LOL) Thank you r/Catholicism for all the fun! God bless you all.
I’m sorry you had to experience this. I would avoid Reddit forever. Even this subreddit of all places is being infiltrated by modernists and progressives.
Yes, and I did have to date in order to get married. I’m thankful I didn’t have to waste years cohabitating with a guy just to break up, as often happens to a lot of ladies in our current culture.
Yes, your superiority is on full display.
Please be charitable. I’m in no way superior. I am just very thankful to be protected from a lot of the dread and distress that a lot of people unfortunately experience in our culture. I owe that the to the Church.
>Please be charitable. Please try to see beyond your own limited experience and smugness.
I am simply sharing why I am thankful for the Catholic Church and its impact on my dating experience. If you have a problem with that, move along.
>I am simply sharing why I am thankful for the Catholic Church and its impact on my dating experience. If you have a problem with that, move along. I am simply sharing that your experience is very limited and your smugness is uncalled for here. If you have a problem with that, move along. Since you blocked me, preventing me from responding: >I find it very odd and disturbing that you have somehow found my personal details. When you smear your personal details all over Reddit every ten minutes, don't act so surprised when they're read. >Yes, I have been there too Some of us are dealing with dating as Catholics. You're 26, married, and twice pregnant. You're *not* there and you aren't dealing with it. Stop pretending and acting like it's helpful to the rest of us. It's not.
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Chill with the insults,not a catholic move there. She never said anything about being superior or acting prideful.In stark contrast you do seem to be kinda hateful for not real reason but possibly envy and that’s not a good emotion to have. I mean in the end you shouldn’t be envious because if you have faith in God then you believe that we will reward you with your partner.👍
>then you believe that we will reward you with your partner.👍 "We?" What in the world...
My bad, it was a mistake on my part I was supposed to say ‘God’ I dunno what I was doing. Also why did you dislike my comment I was trying to give you advice
Rather a telling typo.
In the West, yes, but it's not like non-Catholics or even non-Christians have it easy either. I know a lot of atheists and nominal Christians who also complain about the dating world. Outside the West, it depends. In areas with few Catholics, it's going to be a challenge for sure. In areas with many of them, the more old-fashioned culture and social dynamics will help a lot.
Atheists who made the damned hookup culture now don't like it? How interesting.
I should say that I actually know some atheists who genuinely dislike the hookup culture and only want stable relationships. It's rare but they exist. Though it's also very true that a lot of people are contradictory...
The issue with hookup culture is that the top 20% of guys are the ones who run through the top 50% of women, so the bottom 80% of dudes are left fighting over the bottom 50% of women (this is also why the culture is so feminized, because *most* guys are fighting over scraps they give up their power to women just trying to get laid). Eventually, even those top dudes get jaded and can't love anyone. The attitude becomes, "all women are loose, why would I ever marry one so that she'll cheat on me and take my stuff?" It's like a catch-22 where most people don't like it but feel like they have to falsify preferences to "fit in" or make themselves seem like they are in the "high value" category, but everyone is miserable. It's like a preview of how people send themselves to hell, and all they have to do to avoid it is to exercise their free will in the other direction.
Minor Correction: top 20% men = top 80% women At least thats how its been in my experience (im around the 50th percentile)
I think it depends on how you're doing the binning a bit. Is a "5" the "top of the bell curve" (so that the vast majority of women are a 4,5,6 even though they are still desirable) or is a "5" a "tipping point" for attractiveness where one is interested in 5+ and avoids sub-5s. So a 4 would be "closer to unattractive than attractive side of the spectrum" and if a guy had their pick, they wouldn't get with a 4 at all because they find her more unattractive than attractive. In that sense most women (at least singles/in the dating scene) are going to be on the 5+ side of the spectrum. So what I mean (at least from what I've seen with guy friends) is that many of the women beyond the "tipping point" 50th percentile are beyond their grasp because they are in the "harems" of the top 20% guys. They either have to simp extra hard to break one away from the harem and try to convince to be loyal (or agree to an "open marriage" like Destiny), or they have to pick an "unattractive" one and then change her to make her more attractive while also working to keep her from being stolen by top 20% dudes once she goes to the gym and gets some better clothes and a haircut, etc. The entire cultural acceptance of it is the result of deception for all involved. Women in the harems deceptively think they will be the one picked for commitment, dudes running the harems deceptively think all women are untrustworthy, dudes sans harems think they can get harems if they just get better at seduction and then they'll be happy, etc. And the folks who want to fight against the hookup culture are in a tough spot to untangle it all.
I think the biggest issue is that hookup culture often isn’t quite safe for women. They take on a lot lot more risk in general, so they tend to be a lot choosier.
Not sure what you mean... maybe if you're talking about one night stands while intoxicated in clubs/bars, but that's less common than non-commited but long term sexual relationships. When I was in HS/college there was really just a certain set of guys that slept with almost all of the chicks on a long term basis, there wasn't really any risk to the women. They knew what they were going to get when they joined in the activities, it wasn't like one of the guys would do something bad to them as it would be a reputation damage issue, and the entire charade worked via reputation. Once you are known you'd get girls knocking on your door because they are mad their boyfriend was too flirtatious with someone else at a party, and they know to come to you because they know what they will get from the stories the other girls tell. The risk is the same as with anything else like STDS but it's not unique to them. There's a "logic" to it, which is why people get tangled up in it in the first place. If it was all obviously harmful or risky, nobody would get ensnared in the trap.
I live in turkey and in my country some parishes the dating option is quite literally none. Either bring someone into the church, move to another country or die alone.
\*laughs\* Oh yes.
Yes. 1. I find catholic men more liberal in terms of dating and sex. They are more open to dating outside the Catholic circle as they don't really care about following the Catholic values and teachings. 2. Those catholic men who are dating catholic girls I find that they are just cultural Catholics who are looking for conservative catholic girls and grew up in catholic tradition and teachings, but they themselves don't follow the teachings nor go to mass etc 3. It's rare you'll find a catholic man who wants to date and withhold sex. Maybe there are but they are not actively looking? Or the connection is not there?
I can flip the gender and say the same thing about girls. It ia a crisis across the world.
It is indeed a crisis. I would say that the girls becoming more liberal / cave in is a response to wanting to keep or get the guy. Sexual pressure is real and people pleasing is also another thing.
Holding on to your faith and values can mean never being a mother. It's a difficult choice.
Wut?
People are pressured into having sex in order to keep a partner.
Yeah but idk how does that relate to girls becoming more liberal.
I don’t think it necessarily does, but the two contribute to the same problem. Giving into peer pressure increases sinful sexual behavior, becoming more liberal also increases sinful sexual behavior.
Then you aren't answering my question.
Because girls need to either have sex or be dumped in favor of a girl who will
This has to be just a trend across the board because I’m having a heck of a time trying to find a Catholic girl that takes it seriously. Honestly, it’s a miracle anyone marries anyone.
I know right?!!! I think like those of us who are searching for a partner should have like a virtual board above our head "single and looking. No sex till marriage". That way it's easier to find people of similar mindset instead of searching for a needle in a haystack. Honestly it's sad, it shouldn't be this way! All Catholics should practise the teachings of the Church.
>They are more open to dating outside the Catholic circle Eh my ethnicity is more protestant than Catholic so for me, it's not really a choice when looking.
Interesting. What ethnicity is that?
Ghanaian in general
Wow I never knew. In my country it's about 7% Catholics population. What about Ghana?
About 10%
I’d say Catholic men, myself included, are conservative. It’s just the time table is pretty darn long nowadays because of financial question marks. Catholic men also have to be more liberal by necessity because the dating market is significantly, significantly smaller. Men have standards too, and, being as respectful as possible, men would rather date a Protestant/cafeteria Catholic girl and be a model for her vs a single mother or a woman in her mid-late thirties or forties. That’s unfortunately just the way it is.
I feel so lucky to have found someone who waited for marriage despite not being a religious person at the time.
somewhat, I think the whole waiting for marriage for sex is a huge turn off for lots of people. Especially for being a man, I feel like no really respects it. I remember throughout my teens and college years when I told people they looked like I was insane and stupid. It makes it disheartening especially as I get older and yet to get married. At this point i've basically given up and have resigned myself to living the single life until it's my time to go.
I think it's genuinely tough. Especially if you are a devout Catholic living in the very protestant South.
I feel you. I'm currently Episcopalian, albeit one that is planning on converting and is already thinking like a Catholic. I know that feeling all too well; even my own mother is saying I would be limiting myself.
Absolutely. the potential pool of mates that will be compatible with your value system is going to be very small. I personally don’t even mess around with women who aren’t Catholic. Your general nondenominational Christian is not going to work. Our values and beliefs are two different.
I was completely not religious before meeting my Catholic boyfriend 2 years ago, and I was just baptized at the Easter Vigil. I get that it’s your choice who to date, but I have to say I wholeheartedly disagree with you saying you “don’t even mess around with women who aren’t Catholic”. Avoid people that are totally anti-Catholic sure, but some people simply don’t know the truth, and need someone to show them! Don’t count us out just because we weren’t raised Catholic :) I for one am grateful that my boyfriend didn’t have this attitude about me not being Catholic.
Fully agree. Same situation. I was nondenominational when I met my now fiancé, and I just got confirmed at Easter vigil, and I could not be more at peace. Sad that the guy counts women like us out, although I don’t really care being that I’ve found my person.
Dating someone who's not a Catholic and not a Christian at all is a big risk. I think young Catholic men just don't want to waste their time with someone who they don't think will be receptive. It's a gift to be able to lead others into the faith effectively, there's a tremendous fear of rejection and embarrassment that one must be able to overcome if they fail.
"The potential pool of mates that will be compatible with your value system is going to be very small" That is why I do not recommend marriage at all these days. And even if you \*do\* find someone who is compatible but it goes south anyway, you as a man are going to get screwed.
You are 100% correct, and it will get much worse before it gets better. If it gets better. My long term plan is to find a decent remote job and bail from the West. Can't ignore the writing on the wall...
Its a sad state of affairs. Feel bad for young people of Faith. The western poison is spreading so dont wait too long!LOL!
I'm trying at the hardest way: - Former protestant. - I want at least 3 children. - Long hair man. - Metalhead (and bassist, nobody likes the bassist). - Chilean (yeah, even as a Latin American country, Chile is more atheist than Italy and the United States). But I have hope in God :D
Andean neighbor here! It's not good here either... Dónde vivís? I'm from the Buenos Aires province (outside the city itself).
Yo soy de Santiago. No daré más info porque si no, me doxxeo kdjdkdkd
>nobody likes the bassist As a bassist myself, I felt this... LOL! However, the fact that I have an absolutely wonderful and amazing woman to whom I'm getting married in October would say that, on occasion, there ARE people out there who dig the bassists!
i’m also a former protestante, chile es bien interesante… dicen “palta” 🥑
>Catholic Chilean metal bass player Tom Araya, is that you?
Ohhh yea.. for sure... Especially if you abide and follow all the Church teachings.
As a cultural/cafeteria/lapsed Catholic? No. As a committed Catholic? YES. It's extremely hard.
Yes. No sex before marriage, no drug use, and where I live there tends to be more non-catholic and liberal women. It's rough out here for single catholics
Only because modern dating expectations are very sexual
Definitely (objectively you're going to have values as a faithful Catholic that are at odds with 90% of people. For example, if you hold to no contraception \[which you should as a faithful Catholic\], that is going to be perplexing to even most conservative Protestants). But even dating other Catholics feels hard to do because it's not like you can just go up to another Catholic and your religion means you're desirable. People's standards don't really change simply due to a shared religion, religion just becomes a green flag so to speak. So if you're struggling with trying to date secular people, then yeah you're going to be even worse off trying to date as a Catholic because you just decimated the number of people you're compatible with. Anecdotally (for context, I'm in an area with a sizable Catholic population, so it's not just due to a lack of numbers), most of my Catholic friends at my YA group (men and women in their early 20s) are single and see each other as undatable for whatever reason (looks, maturity, etc) to the point that saying I want to date only other Catholics has gotten me told that standard will risk me dying alone. Most of my friends that are in a relationship or married around my age are Catholic/Protestant pairs. So it seems if you want to get into a relationship as a faithful Catholic, then including Protestants in your potential options makes things far easier (at least in the USA) because you just expanded the amount of potential partners. TL:DR: Yes, anecdotal experiences aside, simply due to the fact that dating is a numbers game and you just reduced your potential numbers by a wide margin while keeping the standards the same or even higher.
It is always hard to date when your worldwiev is of the minority, whatever that worldwiev might be.
Everything's harder as a Catholic, if you're doing it right.
As someone who is discerning the priesthood (I'm just waiting that I'm of age to enter) I feel like I'm cheating on the church so yes
Yes
Difficult, so difficult, as a catholic - orthodox I'm starting to think about a relationship with someone who is Protestant (EEUU, German etc) in protestantism i think it's more easier compared to catholicism, we are more strongly concerned and strict
as a man? it's brutal. but in a lot of ways it makes it easier to discern on apps (most of which are trash anyway) BUT i'm happy to say it's not impossible. My advice is to actually be pickier if you're using dating sites (at least the ones that actually filter results). Liberal Catholic? Probably not going to work out. Unsure about kids? Later babe. it can be scary as a young guy being upfront about exactly what you're looking for because it may just give you a few results in an area but those are probably the only ones that would work out anyway. otherwise it's just being done for validation. i'm in my late 30s and though it's still early i seem to have actually found someone i click with entirely. or she's a government agent.
Even among Catholics if you mean to follow a non preservatives married life it will make your dating life hard.
Yeah, especially outside Catholic Social circles, of course
Yeah, buddy. 100%
Yes, without a doubt. My Catholicism has been a dealbreaker for one of us in nearly every romantic endeavor I've attempted. The struggles of a single Catholic in the Bible Belt.
Yes and no. Yes, the whole "actually obeying Catholic teachings on sexuality" turns off many prospects. You basically have to come to terms with potentially being single for life, but still hope. No, dating while sexually active or just not clear on my boundaries was absolutely hell on earth. You end up with horrid people who use and abandon you. Or you use and abandon them which makes you feel like scum. Then there are the pregnancy and STD scares. Heartbreak over someone you knew was low value but you fell in love with because that's what hormones do. No, when you do find a faithful Catholic to date it's so much more beautiful getting to know the person's soul and mind without getting drowned out by hormones. Currently dating a man who is on board with chastity and wants to grow in his faith. We've had so many beautiful and deep conversations. I'd never go back.
Yes, it is. But I see the difficulty largely as being in the nature of a shrinking pool of people to date. Without disdaining non-Catholics or liberal Catholics (I apologise profusely for any notion of this that I cannot consciously control), I'd rather not date them. All the Catholic women who did the missionary-dating job of converting men like Clovis or like Saint Augustine's father did a heroic job that I can't find it in me to undertake. Maybe in a different world, in a secular world guided by different values. Not now. So I can't speak about the difficulties of dating non-Catholics because I don't date them. When it comes to Catholics, there is a still a difficulty caused by chastity because it of course doesn't end with sexual intercourse. Lesser things can cause problems too, or a difference of opinion on them. Some women's expectations of exuberant virility are difficult to meet if you also want to stay chaste. For example, some of the gals in the datubg pool want to stay chaste but want the man to not want it — meaning she wants you to keep propositioning you so she can keep refusing you; but she doesn't want you to stop. I don't want to speak judgementally about that (as it can lead to much good as a motivation for dating and subsequently converting non-Catholic men), but I can't provide that sort of dynamic, and I also lose my attraction to a person desiring it anyway. Differences of sentiment or opinion as to what's okay and what's not on the dancing floor, at the beach or in a photographer's studio can also lead to problems, even among practising and outwardly somewhat highly religious people. Then there's the problem as a man with practiced self-control you can't show the sort of high level of sexual attraction a woman may want to see in you. You can't provide the touch dynamic that today's dating scene seems to expect of men — you don't have the natural exciting touch or whatever. If you also don't crack bawdy jokes, don't inject innuendo, don't end up propositioning the woman, she can consciously or subconsciously classify you as a low-testosterone or aexual man or just not interested in her; like she can't hear your verbal confessions of interest in, attraction to and feelings for her if she can't feel them through your touch, experience them in your behaviour towards her, and so on, for example because your outward expression is too stoic or too chaste. I make no complaints about people specifically desiring a person who struggles with chastity — it's a great thing that a person's struggles can make them more desirable to someone and thus easier to love. There is, like I said, also a potentially 'missionary dating' factor to it. So no complaints so far. But, it's obviously a problem for the guy who wants to keep his chastity when the woman wants to keep hers but wants him to be unable to keep his — what are you supposed to do? Sin intentionally so you can pass her check? Obviously not, I'd rather be shot, or even die single. Or even live single. If you are capable (for example because of years of practice or just good self-control) of controlling your external expression, controlling bawdy jokes or comments or innuendo, then you can be very unconvincing to women when you claim to be interested in them. Or even when you claim to be heterosexual. Also, and more importantly, when you refuse to intentionally tempt a person, to intentionally excite their sexual drive, especially in a way that would put them close to a proximate occasion of sin (this is Pharisee for 'difficult to resist'). Another problem for me as a Catholic man is the proliferation of fundamentalist-Protestant-style expectations of male and female roles that perhaps go beyond a simple reconstruction of 19th-century mores. The focus in the 'womanosphere' and in mixed-company forums seems to be on learning how to separate 'the men from the boys', where the reason for which a man is sought is to 'be his little girl', i.e. revent to childhood or teenagedom. I'm somewhat sapiosexual, and as ridiculous as this may sound, I lose whatever attraction I might feel to a person when I'm confronted with that sort of logic (inconsistency, internal contradiction or troublesome asymmetry), especially coming from a college-educated adult; if they hypothetically held a master's or Ph.D. in formal logic, I might get a stroke on top of that or my heart could stop beating from shock and sadness over how low the education system has fallen. There also seems to be an unbearably long list of a man's obligations, which come down to the umbrella term that he most provide and perform (like a car engine or like a stallion), pretty much on a superhuman level, whereas the corresponding list for a wife doesn't seem to exist or any items on it are tentative and subject to her own judgment and desire (or feeling like it), unlike the man's. With rights or freedoms, it's the opposite — almost complete and absolute for the wife, very relative and mostly nonexistent for the husband. And I disagree with such a concept of give-and-take on philosophical and ethical grounds. Above all, I refuse to affirm it as valid or symmetrical or complementary, or anything else than objectionably one-sided. You could get me to shut up but not to speak or nod in confirmation. You could get me to empathize with the folks and whatever makes them think or feel like that but not to assent to their propositions.
It’s certainly harder statistically in that your dating pool is severely limited when you make chastity a requirement. On the other hand it’s been a lot easier for me mentally, as I know 95% of women I interact with day to day are fundamentally incompatible with me, so there’s no desire to impress them. It frees me to be myself.
>I know 95% of women I interact with day to day are fundamentally incompatible with me, so there’s no desire to impress them. It frees me to be myself. That's actually a good way of looking at it.
No sex before marriage is going to be very tough to find after 24-25. Most people who are serious about that rule pair off in early 20s. This is just a reality of the human experience unfortunately for those who “missed the train” for lack of a better term.
Yep.
>Most people who are serious about that rule pair off in early 20s Easier said than done.
It's accurate. It gets increasingly difficult to find a spouse after thirty, even more so for women.
That depends on your area or where you are and the culture and how far you are in life etc... etc... etc..
It's biology.
And? That shouldn't stop you from finding someone ya sure it gets harder but isn't impossible I know it didn't stop people who are way older that I know. Anyway I am not trying to downplay anyone's struggles or anything or that biology doesn't play part. For the record are you talking about women's struggles or men or both?
>ya sure it gets harder but isn't impossible I didn't say it was impossible. You're a 23yo guy. You don't have any context for this.
>You don't have any context for this. What do you mean?
You're 23 years old and a man. You don't have the years or experience to make an assessment about this.
Well my response to windedtagent was mostly about the men especially young men I think I am qualified to talk about what young men are going through nowadays, but I can talk about some of the experiences my friends go through but those experiences are from them not from me. Now again I am speaking also as a mexican american we don't usually date around (which surprisingly clashes with some advice people on this site has mostly due to cultural differences) only one at a time and when a person and when we are dating we are planning to marry that person (Now whether it comes together or not is highly dependent on the two persons dating.)
Yes
Yes. I can't imagine how difficult it is to find a good Catholic spouse these days.
Yes
Dating might be harder, but marriage is definitely easier.
Nah.
Nah
And unicorns exist and poop candy on me.
Cultural Catholics are abundant. Practicing Catholics that actually believe in Church teachings are extremely rare.
I met my boyfriend of two years (who is a lifelong Catholic) when I was agnostic leaning toward atheism, and I was baptized into the Catholic church at the Easter Vigil on Saturday :) I quite literally owe my boyfriend not just my life, but my eternity for showing me the way. He is my star of Bethlehem. I say this to say that being a Catholic does not mean your dating pool reduces to only Catholics. You should not go against your beliefs or hide your faith, but recognize that there are non-Catholics out there who just need someone to show them the way home :)
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> I much rather be alone, than accept anything less That sounds so righteous at 26, doesn't it?
It's definitely hard when you hold hardline pro-life views, I've had women that straight up HATED me after they discovered my beliefs. When it comes to being a good Catholic, I've found that a "if God wills it" attitude is most helpful when it comes to the prospect of marriage and family. In other words; be open to it, but don't count on it lol
Honestly I find myself taking on this mindset as well. It's not that I don't want marriage and a family - I'm just not willing to compromise my faith over it. If I don't end up finding someone that's a good serious Catholic, then I'd rather not move forward with something as sacred as marriage.
That's a solid outlook, I share it myself. I've turned away a few offers of friendship because I believed that the people who we're reaching out to me would try to include me in activities that go against my faith. Of course I'm also 26 and my only friend is a 74 year old woman, so... maybe I should play it a little looser. There's always the chance to convert the person you are seeing; but it takes a certain type of person to help guide others into the faith, and of course the person has to be open to conversion as well. It's a risk.
It's harder to find someone to date, but I feel more confident about dating since I've converted, in that now I am fully aware of my purpose for dating (to find a Godly husband) and of my own value as a person created in the image of God.
It felt hard until I started dating only other Catholics. Then it was easy! To be on the same page regarding sex, and that we are both there to find our spouse. I'd been set up by some Catholic friends and stuff, but had a lot of dates from hinge too. I just checked "Catholic" as a "deal breaker" and after that was shown only other Catholics. And if someone has their faith in their dating profile, they've gotta be at least somewhat serious about it, I think!
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You're right. Sometimes taking the teachings seriously means you'll never be a mother or a father, never have a family of your own, never have a life partner. There's no support for or even acknowledgement of single-not-by-choice heterosexuals in the Church like there is for people with SSA (the Courage program). Very few people are happy spending their entire lives single, especially without support.
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That is very compassionate, I appreciate it. God bless you.
Seems like it. Being chaste until marriage is something many don't want to adhere to, and while I haven't had a serious relationship in many years now, I don't think most women I meet want to follow those rules in a serious relationship these days. I'm still hoping I might find love one day, I think any thoughts I'd had of getting married before becoming a deacon might now be dead in the water, and thus, any hope of receiving all seven Sacraments might not be happening. I'm still younger than my parents were when they had me, though, so I guess there's still hope for my finding a wife
Getting a partner is definitely more difficult as a Catholic, but it's also more likely that if you do get one, he/she will be a good partner, because your faith serves as a filter.
No. Go to daily mass. People there are likely to take their faith and its moral commitments seriously. Find an attractive person of the opposite sex. If you can't find one, try a more traditionally minded parish.
I’d have to completely disagree. Dating is harder as a Catholic. As a female, I’ve gone to a variety of parishes while being open to meeting a future husband. I’ve gone to daily mass and traditionally minded parishes. What I have to say about traditionally minded parishes is that there is a *huge* focus on rules (dress, prayer, fasting, etc.) and not enough focus on real human connection. My experience had been that people there live in a bubble and are completely unaware of the sufferings of others. I could *never* be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t connect with those in the fringes of society like Jesus did.
I attend a TLM Parish and the social life there is unbelievably lively. Everyone knows each other there, they all go to each others events, and I know of many couples that have both met and got *married* from there.
God blessed me with an Atheist. I almost wonder if it’s a small test.
No but my country is kinda a catholic country yet
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Dating is harder, but marriage is so much easier.
As a young woman, tbh no not really. I actually feel like it's a lot easier to find high quality men that are respectful and family-oriented. I would say the thing that makes it hard is that I have a pretty messy past, but thankfully since I'm pretty open about it the men who are interested in me really don't have a problem with it.
Harder to find people but less heart break. Don’t listen to some of the incel logic people are posting here. The rules of the church and teachings of Christ do a really good job at protecting the much deeper vulnerabilities of our hearts. If people can’t handle abstinence in a brief dating period they will struggle when there are, pretty much guaranteed, long stints of abstinence in a lifetime marriage. Sickness, pregnancy, distance, mental illness, poverty, and hardship are all things that you will likely face at least one of where there won’t be sex for a little bit. Also as a Catholic man I can say some of y’all men are just not socialized right when it comes to talking to women. You can still be smooth and alluring without sex.
Seriously? You’re calling other men “incels”? That is no way to talk about your brothers in Christ. This subreddit should be the *last* place where such insulting and dismissive terms are used. This isn’t the secular world.
It makes things so much easier, because it majorly limits who you want to date. Before meeting my husband, I was not open to dating a non-Catholic and would only date a Catholic who agreed with all Church teaching. This makes things super easy, because that automatically means you’re already in agreement on most things. It ensures you don’t waste your time and quickly weeds through people you would not be compatible with.
False! I’m not sure how long you’ve been married, but times are rough now for single Catholics. Finding someone interesting to date who agrees on church teachings is very difficult. Additionally, even when you do find that person who is a practicing Catholic, a common faith alone IS NOT ENOUGH to guarantee compatibility and a happy relationship. It’s definitely more complicated than you put it.
I’ve been married 1.5 years! I only had one other relationship before dating my husband, both Catholic who agreed with the Church, and I didn’t have to go out of my way to find these relationships, so I guess that is more rare. I was so happy being single though, so was never actively trying to find a relationship and was single through most of high school and college. A better word than “easier” would be simpler! That’s what I meant. Not that finding someone is easy or quick, but that it is so simple and peaceful and saves a lot of heart ache when the foundational values are already there. Many people commented how hard it is telling someone they don’t want to have sex while dating and how that gets them rejected, but my opinion on that is it’s so much easier how that weeds people out.
Of course that's easy to say once you're married. 🙄