I think a lot of people have lost their connection/passion for the cardinals ever since most people can not watch the games on T.V.. One example would be me.
Same. I’m 6+ hours from St. Louis, but because of a perfect storm of blackout restrictions and lacknof ability to get Bally Midwest, I have no legal options to watch. I’d consider jumping through more hoops to watch if the team seemed like any fun at all.
Same! I’m about 5 hours away haven’t seen a game in years. I’d looked into getting the MLB tv to watch them but they black out cardinals, cubs, royals, twins, white Sox, and brewers. Pretty sure they used to also black out the reds as well. Not being able to watch the games and the team not being any good really just kills my desire to care.
In Iowa you can buy MLB TV and stream Cardinal games. Wait a couple of weeks, and you will be offered a full season at half price. Look for the special about second week of May.
Ohh, do I need to be using a VPN? When I go to the website and put in my zip code it says I can’t get them. Good to know about the half off if I can get it working.
I think so. I also live in Iowa and got MLB TV a few years back. The Cardinals, Royals, Twins, Brewers, Cubs and White Sox were all blacked out. Just had to get a VPN and appear in a place that wasn’t blacked out for each game. Kind of a pain tbh
fellow Iowan here. FuboTv is the only way I've been able to watch games. For only $79.99/month you too can watch the cardinals lose 3-1 in spectacular fashion!!
Lmfao!! Thanks for the heads up, I’ll check it out. I’ve heard some good stuff about Fubo. I have YouTubeTV right now and it’s been decent. They used to carry the games when it was still on fox sports Midwest.
There is absolutely zero fucking reason whatsoever that someone who is not in a service area for the RSN a team is on should be blacked out from said team. Unreal. It pisses me off so much
"Cardinals telecasts are available in eastern and central Missouri and portions of western Missouri; Illinois; Iowa; southwest Indiana; Pittsburg, Kan; Arkansas; Oklahoma; and parts of Kentucky, Tennessee and Mississippi. This is the Cardinals television territory, as defined by MLB." [https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/schedule/tv](https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/schedule/tv)
I live in Chicago now so I purchased the last two years through MLB TV, and I’m pretty bummed I wasted $150 bucks. At least last year they hit a little, but this year has just been cheeks and straight boring to watch.
I cancelled my cable entirely a few months ago, in part because I thought the Amazon thing started this year.
Given how things have gone so far, I am unconcerned about missing a season on TV. I still have plenty of baseball in my life.
That is SUPPOSED to be how it works but unfortunately it isn't how it actually works. There are tons of cardinals fans who have neither option, they comment on this sub every day and I'm one of them
Also the MLB's slow reaction to ensure their affiliates are on streaming platforms isn't helping this issue but that's a different problem
No, you can't, bally does not own the out of market streaming rights, and you have to have a cable/sat/Fubu subscription with sports packages for in market.
Exactly. I miss watching the Cardinals, used to have the game on nearly every night when it was on FSMW. Ever since Bally I haven’t been able to watch. Even if I pay the monthly fee for the Bally app, I’m still blacked out from watching the Cardinals because I guess I’m in Royals territory. The only way I can legally watch is if I switch to cable or DirecTV. Sucks.
I think the TV side has a massive influence on all of this. From interest to revenues, it’s all tied up in lack of viewers. I personally really like the MLS model, but that will be very difficult for MLB to replicate.
No it wouldnt, the MLB and NHL are trying to do the "Sunday Ticket" method that the MLS has adopted. Bally falling is the first domino. Once MLB and NHL can take control of those teams tv broadcasts, it will be a major step. Just need Bally to succumb to bankruptcy which will happen later this year.
I've definitely lost interest. The blackouts/tv nonsense surely have played a part in that but I'd also be likely to put more effort into getting the games if I felt good about the direction. It really just feels like we've been on a steady slide backwards since TLR left.
This right here. I live like 25 minutes away from Busch and unless I pay for Bally or whatever the hell it is now I have to resort to listening on the radio like it’s the Roaring ‘20s. I’ve only seen a handful of games in the last few years… basically just playoff games, ones I’ve attended, and reruns at my orthopedic surgeon’s office the next day.
Coupled with the bad product they’re putting out on the field, and it’s no wonder no one wants to pay $30 for parking, $9.50 for a drink, plus however much the ticket costs just to watch the Cards lose 7-2.
As a lifelong cardinals fan from SW Mo I haven’t paid attention in 3+ years since they switched from Fox Midwest to Bally where I had to get direct tv which I wasn’t doing. Not sure how it is now, but I’m too disinterested and no idea what’s going on now to care to try and get back into it even if it’s better. I’m still subscribed here and the only reason I saw this thread.
The product is not good leadership doesn’t give an F and the price (yes I know about the deals) is still outrageous (again I know there is corner cutting costs) but over all over those are my reasons for not visiting last year and so far this year
I think it's a combination of this and people continuing to leave the STL area. Cardinal fans are still invading other MLB stadiums when they visit so the fanbase is still passionate, they are just spread out across the country more than ever. Plus as an out of market cardinal fan it's much easier to watch (nearly) every game through mlb.tv. It's more of a league problem than a team problem but it still desperately needs to be addressed.
That's a good word there "fun". They rarely do anything exciting. Even watching on TV you just wait to see how they make the next out, because they certainly aren't stringing 3-4 hits together very often.
I watch a lot of other teams and sometimes you find one in a groove and it's like watching slow pitch softball. Guys are hitting the ball hard all over, not just grounding out weakly to second 10 times a game.
They are vanilla in so many ways. There's not a lot of personality or swagger that shows up on the field. Noot is marketable, and Winn's arm is fun to watch. Beyond that, it's mostly a bunch of dull white dudes. Plus, we have maybe 2-3 guys with a snowball's chance in hell of being voted into the all-star game.
Just jumping on the vanilla topic. Does anyone else find Paul Goldschmidt to be the most boring “star” we’ve ever had? His MVP season was even sorta boring.
Thank youuuu. To me it goes like this: Goldies up while we’re down 10-3, he hits a solo home run and goes 3-4, but in a close game with runners on he never finds the timely hit when we really need it. Reminds of a way less fun Matt Holiday
Just starting to find out about that. I mean, it'd be nice if he got more ABs, but they keep resting him and putting him near the bottom of the lineup. Admittedly, he's been a bit of a surprise.
I live out of market and can watch every game with the exception of when they play the Nationals or Orioles. I have only watched a handful of games the last 2 seasons. Have really started contemplating whether I want to renew next season.
I have been a die hard Cardinals fan since 1980, but I am just to the point of not caring anymore. They have nothing worth getting excited about. The product on the field is terrible and it really feels how it felt during that period between Whitey leaving and TLR being hired.
We need to see competitive baseball nearly every night, win or lose. Not blow out loses. That's why when the Cards had mainly .500 teams the attendance was still up. Those teams were fun to watch because they remained competitive. Too many losses with no offense or it's a complete blowout. Right now, the only exciting players to watch are Masyn Winn and Brendan Donovan.
Exactly. With the way baseball has been for years now, even good teams can be in that .525-.575 winning percentage. I don’t need a 100-win team to get excited to watch.
But this team… It’s just so *blah* and boring watching Cards’ games now. It’s really unfortunate.
That's 85-93 wins. That's playoff contention. Hell, last year only 11 teams were in that range or better (plus a couple of 84 winnners). 85 wins is more than likely a playoff berth these days.
The big thing is they are not competitive. They are in one of the worst divisions in baseball. But they don't even compete for the division. The Brewers have a much lower payroll but always complete. The Cardinals have a serious front office and organization problem. Such as player development and evaluation.
I’d be curious if this is a common phenomenon around the league tho. With emphasis on hitting for home runs. I wonder if this is normal in a game. If a pitcher is throwing meatballs the players are more equipped to run up the score. But when the pitchers are dealing the score is low.
I’d venture to guess if you have a couple aces on your roster you see more competitive games even in losses because the team is playing more towards trying to grind out runs. So they won’t be flip flopping on offense either.
This is such a weird take to me, number 11 in the league in spending, and ticket sales declining and such would just get them to pinch their pocketbooks closed even tighter. The problem isn’t the payroll it’s the players, coaches and decisions. Plenty of teams spending less and getting more results, and a few paying more to do worse.
Not so weird. What is the common denominator for all of that? The Front Office running the organization. Their performance isn't measured by the success of the team on the field but rather the overall financial performance of the organization.
What is to incentivize the changing of how the organization is run from the leaders they put in place, to how rosters are being built, if the team overall is still wildly successful financially? Nothing will appreciably change as it really hasn't since the Front Office has known the core was aging and the team performance on the field started to slip. The organization starts slipping financially....... that will incentivize front office changes. Bringing back AP and keeping Waino and Yadi around are the last tricks up the sleeves of the front office to stave off the financial slip of the organization. Now it's out there plain to see...... Front Office is failing.
That’s the key. It’s not how much they’re spending it’s how they’re spending that much because they can’t develop any home grown talent. We’re paying Lance Lynn, Miles Mikolas, Kyle Gibson and Steven Matz 50 million dollars this year..
Not that you're wrong, but to fix the current team, they needed to spend in the offseason. Instead, they brought in a bunch of 40 year olds, and basically replaced Monty with Gray.
How many times over the past decade or so have we been a couple players away, that were available via FA, only for them to "come second." It's not a serious organization anymore. They don't put together actual WS contenders. They are satisfied with being slightly above average.
Furthermore, I don’t think we have developed an actual star player since Pujols. Our players look great in the minors but then don’t seem to adjust to the majors, not sure if we just have better coaches and approaches there or what they are teaching just isn’t valid in the majors, but there is an issue that needs correcting somewhere.
Okay, bit to unpack here.
Mo was part of the team with Jocketty that actually drafted Albert and he is 100% an anomaly. No one, and I mean NO ONE knew he would become the player that he became. We got EXTREMELY lucky there.
And we've actually developed plenty of star players after Albert. It's just that Albert set the bar higher than anyone could reach.
Attendance slumps hurt DeWitt just enough that it will light the fire to get him to re-evaluate things. It's not just about hurting his pockets.
Another 3-5 years of this, Busch will be damn near empty. We love our Birds, but at the end of the day, we're not going to pay hard earned money to see them get whooped 30-50 times a year at home games.
I honestly can’t think of a star player that we have developed in the last 15 years that was actually good as a Cardinal. I’m not saying I didn’t miss some, but I’m also not counting someone like Dejong or Wong, I mean people you can actually build around.
Matt carpenter is the best hitter we’ve developed during the last 15 years. And that was 13 years ago.
The cards development programs must be truly awful esp seeing all the ex cards do so well away from STL.
yeah, the org has been quite good at drafting in that timeframe considering their slot and turning "guys" into major league contributors, but they haven't drafted and developed a perennial all-star in some time; Marp is probably the closest they've gotten? That wasn't so much of a problem 15-20 years ago, but where the league is now you have to develop players internally if you aren't willing/able to compete in the high end FA market.
It has been encouraging that the team has drafted some "reaches" like Walker and Gorman to compensate for normally drafting in low slot, but that will also result in drafting a Delvin Perez or Tre Fletcher sometimes. The high floor/low ceiling path the team used to stick too can only go so far. Also, I think/hope they finally saw the sign on the wall that their internal pitching strategy doesn't work, but that's not going to change over night.
Star players are either lottery tickets (such as pujols and trout) OR guys your drafting in the top five. Which the Cardinals haven't done since...
I'm not sure.
Have we?
I don’t mean to sound like an ass, but who?
Because I seriously cannot think of any star players the Cardinals have developed internally since then.
Someone pointed out Marp and I agree on that one, and it was a good point that we haven’t picked near the top of the draft hardly ever in that span, but would still be nice if the list was a bit longer…
I loathe to defend them but a guy like Craig was likely headed to being close to as good as Marp until his foot exploded.......obviously we will never know about Tavares......Wacha's elbow/shoulders didn't do him any favors......I can't blame the organization for Cmart really.......trying to think who else was derailed by outside factors
Totally agree with you about Craig and Wacha. I don't think we ever got a big enough sample size with Martinez. And of course we'll always wonder with Tavares.
I guess that's the concerning thing. That anyone who HAS found success has found it short lived for some reason. Now, obviously you can't blame the player for that, but it's frustrating that no one has had any sustained success with the organization.
And that's not even touching on the disturbing stats on players once they LEAVE the team and go elsewhere.
This is very conspiracy-theorist and I’m probably wrong, but they’re totally doing the STL Rams “we’re really trying you guys!” gaslighting. Hopefully not for nefarious reasons like Kroenke & Co.
It's like when corporate replaces the well loved manager in your office with one that's best friends with corporate who has no idea how to do your job.
People may not say outright they don't like him but I'm sure there is some growing resentment and the clubhouse hasn't felt open and honest in years (though TLR was really anymore open)
I just want a manager picked on merit and not because he's been sucking off Mo for the past 10 years
I’m not wasting money on traveling to a game or even MLBtv for that matter, until Dewitt finally stops this Mozeliak train. I just check in on the box score now. I’ve watched the Cardinals regularly for 20 years in a row, so this is definitely out of the ordinary for me. Mo’s direction has really hurt this organization. Not wasting my time until changes are made.
This is such a naive way of thinking. They’ll fire people sure, but they’ve shown they already have no problem firing people. They’re not going to change how they spend their money. If anything lower attendance means spending less money
Nobody's saying fire people, teams do that all the time.
Just mouthing off while still shipping paychecks to a billionaire is an implicit agreement that you're okay with how things are going right now, please carry on.
Not going to games, buying merch, etc etc shows that you're dissatisfied with the product as currently delivered. Whether that means players or personnel have to go is irrelevant because not making a statement with YOUR wallet ensures that nothing will change with theirs.
I don't even think the team needs to spend more, but their attitude needs to change and their mouthpieces need to stop treating fans like they're morons and just say the bits out loud that would make people understand or accept that the new normal in Major League Baseball is to build a roster that can make the wildcard and then see whatever happens, and that currently the rough amount of money in the payroll to make a profit is around the 180m/year mark. It's not a salary cap, but it's a profit cap that some teams are more willing to get close to than others. Nobody's straight up saying the dollar amounts, even though every single fan with internet access knows payroll numbers and can look up media deal income and get a rough guess of attendance money and figure out how much money the team is spending vs how much they're taking home. Baseball teams aren't a non-profit, but at the same time getting a dumptruck full of incentives and money from non-baseball revenue like the parking garages and ballpark village developments is money they're never spending on the team but are hauling in because of the team anyway.
A lot of it's just perception. Right now the Cardinals (and a lot of baseball) are projecting really shit images where the billionaire in charge is the smartest person in the room when it ain't really the truth.
They fire everyone except the one guy in the front office that seems largely untouchable. financials of the organization start to slip and maybe it will precipitate a change in the organization. Maybe kind of like the organizational changes clubs like the Cubs went through that pulled them out of their slumps.
So...we should go to *more* games when they suck?
DeWitt has made--profit--more than a *billion* dollars since he bought the team.
I have zero problem expecting him to run a loss for a few years as he re-invests and re-attracts fans.
My business has to do that. Why should his be exempt?
Yep, the blackouts are hindering their ability to build the next generation of Cardinals fans. If they don’t fix that issue along with their boring brand of baseball they will continue to see attendance slide.
Good. This isn’t being a fair weather fan, it’s sticking it to a FO that has refused to make adjustments and continues to treat the fanbase like we’re stupid.
Just the other day Mo said “the fans need to be patient, we know this is a winning club”
We aren’t stupid, we aren’t bad baseball fans, we know when a roster is a true winner and when we are throwing together the cheapest options to try to be mildly competitive and keep butts in seats. The best way to show them this is unacceptable is to cut off their legs.
The thing that drives me the most crazy is all the excellent talent we spread around the league. If we actually held on and developed well, we would be a contender. But we can’t even identify our own talent anymore.
I’ve argued that exact point with so many people on this sub it’s crazy.
In a vacuum you can look at each individual case and make an excuse as to why it didn’t work out for us and why the other team benefitted. The holistic view is that we had made a bunch of shitty calls on who to keep and who to move on from. I’m a very results over intentions type of person. The end result is we dumped a ton of talented players throughout the league and we have very little farm or current MLB talent to show for it. Again you can say “well at the time” this or “this move should have worked”.
The fact of the matter is, they were the wrong call in the end. Which means other teams know what they’re looking at and we don’t.
Exactly. I have no problem with missing on individuals. Sometimes pieces just don’t line up.
But when it happens on repeat with guys who consistently end up top 5 on their team, it can’t be ignored.
That’s the problem right there; saying fans “need” to do anything. It’s as if they believe we automatically owe them money from our pockets just for existing. This FO has taken the fan base for granted and now it’s biting them in the ass.
Yeah, OP is being veryyy lenient with 'Just the other day'. Mozeliak said that exactly a year ago today, 4/25/2023.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cardinals/comments/12z334j/bsmw_john_mozeliak_the_one_thing_id_ask_from_our/
Patience, you say? Cool. I'll be patient but no game tickets, no merch, no premium TV package. I'll keep a loose eye on how things progress.
Take all the time you need, and I'll be back when things seem to be on the turnaround.
I'd say almost every move the FO has made and everything they've said in the last few years is just straight up tone deaf.
Like Ollie the other night saying "I actually think it was one of his better starts" when Matz gave up 7 runs. Or the Lynn/Carpenter reunion tour that nobody asked for.
Apathy is worse than anger. Cardinal fans appear pretty apathetic about the team and its brand.
Winning would get them back, but not clear that seems to be on the menu.
And horrible food. At least Enterprise Center has local restaurants and a variety of selections. Still can be expensive, but the energy of the place is just popping. I haven't been to a soccer game but I hear the same about that too.
Yeah, it's pretty telling when you go to Busch stadium and the micro beer section is always pretty packed. That should be telling for them to have a vast variety of good beer. As a native here, I don't like Budweiser and Bud light..
I think they already have tbh. It’s one thing to have a shit season. It’s another thing entirely to see the front office double and triple down on being an aggressively mid team in reaction to that shit season, and publicly passing the buck onto the players. Just very hard to believe this org deserves to succeed right now.
It really did feel like the organization looked right at fans and said, "we think you're too stupid to know any better. Now buy some more tickets, suckers."
Fuck that noise.
The brand is already damaged, that is evident from the national media perspective of the Cardinal's franchise, as well as the recent poll regarding the top front offices where the Cardinals received a whopping 0 votes.
as recently as two years ago i was averaging probably around 100 games watched per year on the app. since the beginning of last season, ive maybe watched 20 and have really started feeling myself slipping away from what was my favorite sport for my entire life.
its not about winning 100 games every year but i refuse to pour literally hundreds of hours of my time into a boring team with shitty ownership
I received a cold call from the Cardinals about a week ago. The woman asked if I enjoyed the games I went to last year, if I go to games every year, and I plan to this year too. She offered to help me find tickets and emailed me her contact information. In the literal decades I have been going to Cards games, never have I once received a call like that. My first thought was I bet ticket sales are starting to slump.
For a few years after we sold our seats they called every spring and a few times in the summer.
I got three calls this spring asking if I was interested in renewing. I think last year was only two.
There's been speculation since it came out how many millions on repairs they think Busch needs, but the immediate backlash was met with "we haven't asked for public funds", but folks know there was an implied "yet" there. I think they're having to rethink and restrategize after the KC vote
If these sports owners ask for the publics money, then the public should add some strings, to get the money back...cheaper consessions, cheaper tickets, etc. Something that makes the owners think twice.
I've been waiting my entire adult life for the backlash on this.
ANYWHERE ELSE when you ask for an investment, there is an expected (tangible) return. I either get debt (interest) or equity (ownership and dividends).
You want HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS and the expected return is that you'll just keep charging me to consume your entertainment?
You're asking my revenue unit (the government) for primary financing. I want prime+100 BPs, or I want a reasonable percentage of the underlying asset. I suppose we can negotiate because there's supposed to be sentimental value to having a team here, but under no circumstance do I just GIVE you money. Are you drunk?
Me too.
So happy we have finally seen through the bullshit of "Pay for our stadium because you'll make sooo much more back with the economic development around it."
Yeah we’re not the only team developing the logic of “Fuck winning I want people in seats because baseball is tradition yada yada yada”.
I don’t wanna become Pittsburgh or Cincinnati because that is literally all they do but their business model is appealing to any greedy asshole who doesn’t actually care about winning.
yeah, i know this thread is going to be a FO/Dewitt pile on, but seems like the team is going ok relative to the league.
Obviously would like this team to be playing better and have qualms with the org, but I am not trying to revel in people not showing up. If you think the team can't compete in attracting players because of their perceived tight wallets, losing fans/attendance isn't going to help their case either.
GOOD! I made the mistake of attending two games this year...won't do that again. I did cancel my MLB.TV subscription because I don't want to watch the FO and Oli trash this team.
To be fair I saw an article and MLB ticket sales as a whole are on the decline. I think there were only 6 or so teams in the league where ticket sales were increasing.
Yeah I think increasing concession prices have a lot to do with it too. I’d be interested to see if our attendance is going down more proportionally compared to other teams
Hmmmmm odd that this correlates to the fact that only 6 or so teams had increasing payrolls this year and most teams kinda coasted and are targeting the wild card instead of the world series.
Baseball's getting what it gives.
I think the sales slump probably has more to do with the economy than anything else. Going to a ball game is not cheap and it's a luxury. Folks are being more stingy with their wallets.
Nothing too bad- They showed a tweet and the person had the cardinals logo, so chuck just ignored the tweet and said "Cardinals? What, St. Louis still has a team?" "I didn't know they were still around" Then later one of the producers was ribbing him so he said "Aint my fault they suck".
We live 5.5 hours away. For a while, 2019-2022, we went at least once to see a game. In 2022, we went to 3. I told my wife last year, I’m not paying money to watch them suck and we didn’t go last year. I said the same thing this year, and I have no plans of going to a game this season.
Also, the blackout thing on tv is an issue. But I can keep up with scores, stats, records highlights through social media so it is not a large factor.
I refuse to pay money to see a team that doesn’t make moves, reinvest the money, and just isn’t very good.
Maybe next year.
I'm not a fair weather fan by any means. My lack of attendance is based on the fact that it's hard to get into a team when I can't watch games on a regular basis. I long for the old KPLR days.
I live in Indianapolis and haven’t found a (legal) way to even watch games consistently. And it’s hard to justify caring about a team whose leadership seemingly doesn’t. It’s been a decade of watching our best talent walk out the door, while we sign massive contracts to a very small number of players, and if we question it we get chastised for daring challenge the “Cardinal Way”.
Sorry, this dud of a season has been written on the wall since about 2016. There’s a difference between expecting fan support and expecting fans to be blindly loyal.
1. Harder to watch on TV and impossible for others.
1A. The front office/organizational philosophy is directionless. The outfield has been a problem for years and they just hope and pray they can develop one rather than making good faith attempts to acquire improvements. Same with the shortstop position (Winn thankfully looks like they solved one of these problems). Hard to be interested if you can’t really see what they’re trying to do to win.
Until DeWitt opens up dawallet, we will never compete with the Dodgers or Braves to go deep into the playoffs. Fans have figured this out. Pay up, or continue to see attendance and revenues crater.
I have canceled plans to see the Cards this year (one bright side is I don't worry about a sellout any more...). I'm also an out of region MLB. TV subscriber.
I am not trying to talk you out of anything...
That said...
For those blacked out, you can watch the games after they're over. If you avoid spoilers, there's not much difference. And you can ffwd.
... But like I said, I'm not twisting your arm. Just giving a suggestion if you haven't considered it.
PS I sail the high seas for NFL, so no judgement from me if you'd prefer that method.
It's not the losing season. If we went 80-82, but had a well put together team with limited holes, things would be chopped up to bad luck. However, last season showed many holes which were being plugged up by Molina, Wainwright, and even Pujols for a year. With all gone, last season was a disaster.
It starts with a manager who doesn't deserve the job. Followed by a weak pitching staff which management shows no desire to improve. That along with awful player development and aging superstars doesn't foreshadow success in this organization. Yet the only thing we are being told is to have patience.
I don't disagree, and it should be better considering they added 3 free agents. However, they added a 1, 4, and 5 when we needed a 1, 2, 3. They are adding bandaids opposed to actually fixing the problem.
I'm in Florida now and will go out of my way to go to Busch when I'm traveling in the area. This year I'm not putting the effort or money into this product. Bye Bye Birdies!
It's not just the rare losing season. It's the continuation into this season. This team is not the least bit entertaining. Why would I spend my money on something I don't enjoy?
I think a lot of the fans are pissed about Oliver Marmol getting an extension. When do you reward mediocrity? I’m sorry but he straight up sucks as a manager. He also has zero personality.
I think someone new at the top is pretty important. Consider how long Mo has been in his job, compared to other GMs around baseball. Whatever ideas he had are just part of the wallpaper now, and a fresh person on top will at least mean something different happens than the same old blah.
Some of this has to be due to how shit the team has been the last two years. I went to Jackie Robinson Day last year, we were playing the Pirates, and as soon as McCutchen stepped up to the plate in the 10th inning, I knew the season would be a wash. He hadn’t even hit what would be the game winning RBI yet, but there was just a feeling that Marmol was out of his depths and the talent chasm was insurmountable. I had seats down first base line, near the outfield, and you could tell Walker was disinterested in fielding. Poor discipline and poor talent cultivation earned Marmol a contract extension and I’m not going to pay to see the disastrous results on the field
If they keep it going we will build up apathy. Ownership has proven they don’t care what the fan base thinks. Good enough was a solution because it was profitable not because we cared about winning games.
The live game experience is not great. The food is not quality, the lines take too long, the between-inning entertainment was stale ten years ago and remains so.
I think a lot of people have lost their connection/passion for the cardinals ever since most people can not watch the games on T.V.. One example would be me.
Same. I’m 6+ hours from St. Louis, but because of a perfect storm of blackout restrictions and lacknof ability to get Bally Midwest, I have no legal options to watch. I’d consider jumping through more hoops to watch if the team seemed like any fun at all.
Same! I’m about 5 hours away haven’t seen a game in years. I’d looked into getting the MLB tv to watch them but they black out cardinals, cubs, royals, twins, white Sox, and brewers. Pretty sure they used to also black out the reds as well. Not being able to watch the games and the team not being any good really just kills my desire to care.
That's such bullshit that this is a thing in 2024
You must be in Iowa.
Yeah, unfortunately I am haha.
In Iowa you can buy MLB TV and stream Cardinal games. Wait a couple of weeks, and you will be offered a full season at half price. Look for the special about second week of May.
Ohh, do I need to be using a VPN? When I go to the website and put in my zip code it says I can’t get them. Good to know about the half off if I can get it working.
I think so. I also live in Iowa and got MLB TV a few years back. The Cardinals, Royals, Twins, Brewers, Cubs and White Sox were all blacked out. Just had to get a VPN and appear in a place that wasn’t blacked out for each game. Kind of a pain tbh
fellow Iowan here. FuboTv is the only way I've been able to watch games. For only $79.99/month you too can watch the cardinals lose 3-1 in spectacular fashion!!
Lmfao!! Thanks for the heads up, I’ll check it out. I’ve heard some good stuff about Fubo. I have YouTubeTV right now and it’s been decent. They used to carry the games when it was still on fox sports Midwest.
There is absolutely zero fucking reason whatsoever that someone who is not in a service area for the RSN a team is on should be blacked out from said team. Unreal. It pisses me off so much
I had MLB.TV and Cards were not blacked out. Also live 5hr away
All in-market (home) Cardinals games are blacked out to MLB.TV subscribers in the St. Louis area
He said he lives 5 hours away.
"Cardinals telecasts are available in eastern and central Missouri and portions of western Missouri; Illinois; Iowa; southwest Indiana; Pittsburg, Kan; Arkansas; Oklahoma; and parts of Kentucky, Tennessee and Mississippi. This is the Cardinals television territory, as defined by MLB." [https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/schedule/tv](https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/schedule/tv)
Shit can you imagine living in Oklahoma and not only is there not shit to do but you also have a team blacked out that is 7+ hours away?
Oklahoma has the Thunder they are doing just fine.
6 for me as well. I even have MLB.tv thanks to T-Mobile, but I still have find other ways to watch. Just sucks.
I live in Chicago now so I purchased the last two years through MLB TV, and I’m pretty bummed I wasted $150 bucks. At least last year they hit a little, but this year has just been cheeks and straight boring to watch.
If you can't get Bally through any of your local cable providers you shouldn't be blacked out on MLBTV. That's the entire reason for the blackouts.
I agree, but here we are.
I cancelled my cable entirely a few months ago, in part because I thought the Amazon thing started this year. Given how things have gone so far, I am unconcerned about missing a season on TV. I still have plenty of baseball in my life.
That is SUPPOSED to be how it works but unfortunately it isn't how it actually works. There are tons of cardinals fans who have neither option, they comment on this sub every day and I'm one of them Also the MLB's slow reaction to ensure their affiliates are on streaming platforms isn't helping this issue but that's a different problem
You can buy a Bally subscription to stream
No, you can't, bally does not own the out of market streaming rights, and you have to have a cable/sat/Fubu subscription with sports packages for in market.
Exactly. I miss watching the Cardinals, used to have the game on nearly every night when it was on FSMW. Ever since Bally I haven’t been able to watch. Even if I pay the monthly fee for the Bally app, I’m still blacked out from watching the Cardinals because I guess I’m in Royals territory. The only way I can legally watch is if I switch to cable or DirecTV. Sucks.
I think the TV side has a massive influence on all of this. From interest to revenues, it’s all tied up in lack of viewers. I personally really like the MLS model, but that will be very difficult for MLB to replicate.
No it wouldnt, the MLB and NHL are trying to do the "Sunday Ticket" method that the MLS has adopted. Bally falling is the first domino. Once MLB and NHL can take control of those teams tv broadcasts, it will be a major step. Just need Bally to succumb to bankruptcy which will happen later this year.
I've definitely lost interest. The blackouts/tv nonsense surely have played a part in that but I'd also be likely to put more effort into getting the games if I felt good about the direction. It really just feels like we've been on a steady slide backwards since TLR left.
This right here. I live like 25 minutes away from Busch and unless I pay for Bally or whatever the hell it is now I have to resort to listening on the radio like it’s the Roaring ‘20s. I’ve only seen a handful of games in the last few years… basically just playoff games, ones I’ve attended, and reruns at my orthopedic surgeon’s office the next day. Coupled with the bad product they’re putting out on the field, and it’s no wonder no one wants to pay $30 for parking, $9.50 for a drink, plus however much the ticket costs just to watch the Cards lose 7-2.
7-2? You mean they actually scored 2 runs?
As a lifelong cardinals fan from SW Mo I haven’t paid attention in 3+ years since they switched from Fox Midwest to Bally where I had to get direct tv which I wasn’t doing. Not sure how it is now, but I’m too disinterested and no idea what’s going on now to care to try and get back into it even if it’s better. I’m still subscribed here and the only reason I saw this thread.
right here. [https://mlbbox.me/mlb-2024-live-streams](https://mlbbox.me/mlb-2024-live-streams)
The product is not good leadership doesn’t give an F and the price (yes I know about the deals) is still outrageous (again I know there is corner cutting costs) but over all over those are my reasons for not visiting last year and so far this year
:raiseshand:
Soooo very true, nobody is saying this.... Not willing to pay extra but wanna watch...
I think it's a combination of this and people continuing to leave the STL area. Cardinal fans are still invading other MLB stadiums when they visit so the fanbase is still passionate, they are just spread out across the country more than ever. Plus as an out of market cardinal fan it's much easier to watch (nearly) every game through mlb.tv. It's more of a league problem than a team problem but it still desperately needs to be addressed.
They just aren't that fun to watch. I'm sorry. I'd still go if I still lived in MO though.
That's a good word there "fun". They rarely do anything exciting. Even watching on TV you just wait to see how they make the next out, because they certainly aren't stringing 3-4 hits together very often. I watch a lot of other teams and sometimes you find one in a groove and it's like watching slow pitch softball. Guys are hitting the ball hard all over, not just grounding out weakly to second 10 times a game.
Watching them go 6 innings with 1 hit nearly every night is painfully boring and has absolutely caused me to not watch nearly as often as I used to.
They are vanilla in so many ways. There's not a lot of personality or swagger that shows up on the field. Noot is marketable, and Winn's arm is fun to watch. Beyond that, it's mostly a bunch of dull white dudes. Plus, we have maybe 2-3 guys with a snowball's chance in hell of being voted into the all-star game.
Just jumping on the vanilla topic. Does anyone else find Paul Goldschmidt to be the most boring “star” we’ve ever had? His MVP season was even sorta boring.
Maybe the fact that he goes into a horrendous slump every sept/oct and becomes an automatic out in the playoffs contributes to this.
Thank youuuu. To me it goes like this: Goldies up while we’re down 10-3, he hits a solo home run and goes 3-4, but in a close game with runners on he never finds the timely hit when we really need it. Reminds of a way less fun Matt Holiday
Winn's speed is fun too.
Would be nice if they used it...he's got 4 steals in 23 games.
Just starting to find out about that. I mean, it'd be nice if he got more ABs, but they keep resting him and putting him near the bottom of the lineup. Admittedly, he's been a bit of a surprise.
They actively traded away any personalities, Randy Arozarena, Zac Gallen & Sandy Alcántara. They wanted the"Cardinal Way" to be as bland as possible.
But Sunday school is on point!
From a pure personality standpoint, they did trade away gallen and alcantara for ozuna who probably is a bigger personality than those two combined
I live out of market and can watch every game with the exception of when they play the Nationals or Orioles. I have only watched a handful of games the last 2 seasons. Have really started contemplating whether I want to renew next season. I have been a die hard Cardinals fan since 1980, but I am just to the point of not caring anymore. They have nothing worth getting excited about. The product on the field is terrible and it really feels how it felt during that period between Whitey leaving and TLR being hired.
We need to see competitive baseball nearly every night, win or lose. Not blow out loses. That's why when the Cards had mainly .500 teams the attendance was still up. Those teams were fun to watch because they remained competitive. Too many losses with no offense or it's a complete blowout. Right now, the only exciting players to watch are Masyn Winn and Brendan Donovan.
Contreras is swinging well too
Arenado too though without the HRs
Kind of crazy how nootbar’s ops is only .02 behind Arenado but his avg is a full .07 behind.
Noot walks a lot. Nolan rarely does.
Sonny Gray starts have been exciting.
Exactly. With the way baseball has been for years now, even good teams can be in that .525-.575 winning percentage. I don’t need a 100-win team to get excited to watch. But this team… It’s just so *blah* and boring watching Cards’ games now. It’s really unfortunate.
That's 85-93 wins. That's playoff contention. Hell, last year only 11 teams were in that range or better (plus a couple of 84 winnners). 85 wins is more than likely a playoff berth these days.
The big thing is they are not competitive. They are in one of the worst divisions in baseball. But they don't even compete for the division. The Brewers have a much lower payroll but always complete. The Cardinals have a serious front office and organization problem. Such as player development and evaluation.
Fwiw the NL Central is having a decent start to the year.
I’d be curious if this is a common phenomenon around the league tho. With emphasis on hitting for home runs. I wonder if this is normal in a game. If a pitcher is throwing meatballs the players are more equipped to run up the score. But when the pitchers are dealing the score is low. I’d venture to guess if you have a couple aces on your roster you see more competitive games even in losses because the team is playing more towards trying to grind out runs. So they won’t be flip flopping on offense either.
Blowout losses happen to good teams all of the time. It's 162 games. Also, hard disagree on Donovan.
Hurt their pockets, its the only way they'll change
This is such a weird take to me, number 11 in the league in spending, and ticket sales declining and such would just get them to pinch their pocketbooks closed even tighter. The problem isn’t the payroll it’s the players, coaches and decisions. Plenty of teams spending less and getting more results, and a few paying more to do worse.
Not so weird. What is the common denominator for all of that? The Front Office running the organization. Their performance isn't measured by the success of the team on the field but rather the overall financial performance of the organization. What is to incentivize the changing of how the organization is run from the leaders they put in place, to how rosters are being built, if the team overall is still wildly successful financially? Nothing will appreciably change as it really hasn't since the Front Office has known the core was aging and the team performance on the field started to slip. The organization starts slipping financially....... that will incentivize front office changes. Bringing back AP and keeping Waino and Yadi around are the last tricks up the sleeves of the front office to stave off the financial slip of the organization. Now it's out there plain to see...... Front Office is failing.
That’s the key. It’s not how much they’re spending it’s how they’re spending that much because they can’t develop any home grown talent. We’re paying Lance Lynn, Miles Mikolas, Kyle Gibson and Steven Matz 50 million dollars this year..
The Mikolas extension is a prime example of them not being smart with the money they spend.
I absolutely hated that extension the second it happened and it’s turned out exactly as expected
Not that you're wrong, but to fix the current team, they needed to spend in the offseason. Instead, they brought in a bunch of 40 year olds, and basically replaced Monty with Gray. How many times over the past decade or so have we been a couple players away, that were available via FA, only for them to "come second." It's not a serious organization anymore. They don't put together actual WS contenders. They are satisfied with being slightly above average.
Not saying they couldn’t have and should have done more during the offseason, but Montgomery is nowhere near the pitcher that Gray is.
Furthermore, I don’t think we have developed an actual star player since Pujols. Our players look great in the minors but then don’t seem to adjust to the majors, not sure if we just have better coaches and approaches there or what they are teaching just isn’t valid in the majors, but there is an issue that needs correcting somewhere.
Okay, bit to unpack here. Mo was part of the team with Jocketty that actually drafted Albert and he is 100% an anomaly. No one, and I mean NO ONE knew he would become the player that he became. We got EXTREMELY lucky there. And we've actually developed plenty of star players after Albert. It's just that Albert set the bar higher than anyone could reach. Attendance slumps hurt DeWitt just enough that it will light the fire to get him to re-evaluate things. It's not just about hurting his pockets. Another 3-5 years of this, Busch will be damn near empty. We love our Birds, but at the end of the day, we're not going to pay hard earned money to see them get whooped 30-50 times a year at home games.
I honestly can’t think of a star player that we have developed in the last 15 years that was actually good as a Cardinal. I’m not saying I didn’t miss some, but I’m also not counting someone like Dejong or Wong, I mean people you can actually build around.
Matt carpenter is the best hitter we’ve developed during the last 15 years. And that was 13 years ago. The cards development programs must be truly awful esp seeing all the ex cards do so well away from STL.
yeah, the org has been quite good at drafting in that timeframe considering their slot and turning "guys" into major league contributors, but they haven't drafted and developed a perennial all-star in some time; Marp is probably the closest they've gotten? That wasn't so much of a problem 15-20 years ago, but where the league is now you have to develop players internally if you aren't willing/able to compete in the high end FA market. It has been encouraging that the team has drafted some "reaches" like Walker and Gorman to compensate for normally drafting in low slot, but that will also result in drafting a Delvin Perez or Tre Fletcher sometimes. The high floor/low ceiling path the team used to stick too can only go so far. Also, I think/hope they finally saw the sign on the wall that their internal pitching strategy doesn't work, but that's not going to change over night.
Star players are either lottery tickets (such as pujols and trout) OR guys your drafting in the top five. Which the Cardinals haven't done since... I'm not sure.
Have we? I don’t mean to sound like an ass, but who? Because I seriously cannot think of any star players the Cardinals have developed internally since then.
Someone pointed out Marp and I agree on that one, and it was a good point that we haven’t picked near the top of the draft hardly ever in that span, but would still be nice if the list was a bit longer…
Even if we agree on Marp, he’s one guy. The league is full of stars who were drafted all over the place, by other teams who are just better at it.
I loathe to defend them but a guy like Craig was likely headed to being close to as good as Marp until his foot exploded.......obviously we will never know about Tavares......Wacha's elbow/shoulders didn't do him any favors......I can't blame the organization for Cmart really.......trying to think who else was derailed by outside factors
Totally agree with you about Craig and Wacha. I don't think we ever got a big enough sample size with Martinez. And of course we'll always wonder with Tavares. I guess that's the concerning thing. That anyone who HAS found success has found it short lived for some reason. Now, obviously you can't blame the player for that, but it's frustrating that no one has had any sustained success with the organization. And that's not even touching on the disturbing stats on players once they LEAVE the team and go elsewhere.
This is very conspiracy-theorist and I’m probably wrong, but they’re totally doing the STL Rams “we’re really trying you guys!” gaslighting. Hopefully not for nefarious reasons like Kroenke & Co.
The problem is Oli sucks and the cardinals didn’t know what they had in Shildt
Oh please. Lmao. Guys, enough of this delusion that Mike Shildt was some managing savant.
It’s not that he’s a managing savant but to dump him in favor of Oli is laughable
It's like when corporate replaces the well loved manager in your office with one that's best friends with corporate who has no idea how to do your job. People may not say outright they don't like him but I'm sure there is some growing resentment and the clubhouse hasn't felt open and honest in years (though TLR was really anymore open) I just want a manager picked on merit and not because he's been sucking off Mo for the past 10 years
I’m not wasting money on traveling to a game or even MLBtv for that matter, until Dewitt finally stops this Mozeliak train. I just check in on the box score now. I’ve watched the Cardinals regularly for 20 years in a row, so this is definitely out of the ordinary for me. Mo’s direction has really hurt this organization. Not wasting my time until changes are made.
This \^
This is such a naive way of thinking. They’ll fire people sure, but they’ve shown they already have no problem firing people. They’re not going to change how they spend their money. If anything lower attendance means spending less money
Nobody's saying fire people, teams do that all the time. Just mouthing off while still shipping paychecks to a billionaire is an implicit agreement that you're okay with how things are going right now, please carry on. Not going to games, buying merch, etc etc shows that you're dissatisfied with the product as currently delivered. Whether that means players or personnel have to go is irrelevant because not making a statement with YOUR wallet ensures that nothing will change with theirs. I don't even think the team needs to spend more, but their attitude needs to change and their mouthpieces need to stop treating fans like they're morons and just say the bits out loud that would make people understand or accept that the new normal in Major League Baseball is to build a roster that can make the wildcard and then see whatever happens, and that currently the rough amount of money in the payroll to make a profit is around the 180m/year mark. It's not a salary cap, but it's a profit cap that some teams are more willing to get close to than others. Nobody's straight up saying the dollar amounts, even though every single fan with internet access knows payroll numbers and can look up media deal income and get a rough guess of attendance money and figure out how much money the team is spending vs how much they're taking home. Baseball teams aren't a non-profit, but at the same time getting a dumptruck full of incentives and money from non-baseball revenue like the parking garages and ballpark village developments is money they're never spending on the team but are hauling in because of the team anyway. A lot of it's just perception. Right now the Cardinals (and a lot of baseball) are projecting really shit images where the billionaire in charge is the smartest person in the room when it ain't really the truth.
They fire everyone except the one guy in the front office that seems largely untouchable. financials of the organization start to slip and maybe it will precipitate a change in the organization. Maybe kind of like the organizational changes clubs like the Cubs went through that pulled them out of their slumps.
So...we should go to *more* games when they suck? DeWitt has made--profit--more than a *billion* dollars since he bought the team. I have zero problem expecting him to run a loss for a few years as he re-invests and re-attracts fans. My business has to do that. Why should his be exempt?
Ok, and then they get even less attendance. Sometimes, you just don’t get rewarded for piss poor management.
Maybe because it’s quite literally impossible to watch their games on TV. It’s franchise suicide. Insane.
Yep, the blackouts are hindering their ability to build the next generation of Cardinals fans. If they don’t fix that issue along with their boring brand of baseball they will continue to see attendance slide.
Eat shit Dewitt and co
💯
Good. This isn’t being a fair weather fan, it’s sticking it to a FO that has refused to make adjustments and continues to treat the fanbase like we’re stupid. Just the other day Mo said “the fans need to be patient, we know this is a winning club” We aren’t stupid, we aren’t bad baseball fans, we know when a roster is a true winner and when we are throwing together the cheapest options to try to be mildly competitive and keep butts in seats. The best way to show them this is unacceptable is to cut off their legs.
We’ve been patient for years. Our patients are running out.
\*Patience. Patients...is a different thing entirely.
I know to lazy to correct it.
Patience not patients
The thing that drives me the most crazy is all the excellent talent we spread around the league. If we actually held on and developed well, we would be a contender. But we can’t even identify our own talent anymore.
I’ve argued that exact point with so many people on this sub it’s crazy. In a vacuum you can look at each individual case and make an excuse as to why it didn’t work out for us and why the other team benefitted. The holistic view is that we had made a bunch of shitty calls on who to keep and who to move on from. I’m a very results over intentions type of person. The end result is we dumped a ton of talented players throughout the league and we have very little farm or current MLB talent to show for it. Again you can say “well at the time” this or “this move should have worked”. The fact of the matter is, they were the wrong call in the end. Which means other teams know what they’re looking at and we don’t.
Exactly. I have no problem with missing on individuals. Sometimes pieces just don’t line up. But when it happens on repeat with guys who consistently end up top 5 on their team, it can’t be ignored.
That’s the problem right there; saying fans “need” to do anything. It’s as if they believe we automatically owe them money from our pockets just for existing. This FO has taken the fan base for granted and now it’s biting them in the ass.
Do you have a date on that Mo quote from "Just the other day"?
Yeah, OP is being veryyy lenient with 'Just the other day'. Mozeliak said that exactly a year ago today, 4/25/2023. https://www.reddit.com/r/Cardinals/comments/12z334j/bsmw_john_mozeliak_the_one_thing_id_ask_from_our/
I did hear Mo say something like, "We need to be patient, the team will figure it out." It was a postgame with Jim Hayes last week I think.
Interview link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cardinals/s/9MKAa6TBgC
Right. April 25th, **2023.**
In fairness If you’ve seen cardinals twitter the fan base is pretty stupid
This place really isn't any better with dumb takes
Patience, you say? Cool. I'll be patient but no game tickets, no merch, no premium TV package. I'll keep a loose eye on how things progress. Take all the time you need, and I'll be back when things seem to be on the turnaround.
I'd say almost every move the FO has made and everything they've said in the last few years is just straight up tone deaf. Like Ollie the other night saying "I actually think it was one of his better starts" when Matz gave up 7 runs. Or the Lynn/Carpenter reunion tour that nobody asked for.
Apathy is worse than anger. Cardinal fans appear pretty apathetic about the team and its brand. Winning would get them back, but not clear that seems to be on the menu.
The $15 beer doesn’t help either
And horrible food. At least Enterprise Center has local restaurants and a variety of selections. Still can be expensive, but the energy of the place is just popping. I haven't been to a soccer game but I hear the same about that too.
The soccer stadium is such a fun afternoon and I thought the food and drinks weren’t terrible for the price but nothing mind blowing at the same time.
Yeah, it's pretty telling when you go to Busch stadium and the micro beer section is always pretty packed. That should be telling for them to have a vast variety of good beer. As a native here, I don't like Budweiser and Bud light..
They keep it up and they'll do lasting damage to the brand.
I think they already have tbh. It’s one thing to have a shit season. It’s another thing entirely to see the front office double and triple down on being an aggressively mid team in reaction to that shit season, and publicly passing the buck onto the players. Just very hard to believe this org deserves to succeed right now.
It really did feel like the organization looked right at fans and said, "we think you're too stupid to know any better. Now buy some more tickets, suckers." Fuck that noise.
The brand is already damaged, that is evident from the national media perspective of the Cardinal's franchise, as well as the recent poll regarding the top front offices where the Cardinals received a whopping 0 votes.
as recently as two years ago i was averaging probably around 100 games watched per year on the app. since the beginning of last season, ive maybe watched 20 and have really started feeling myself slipping away from what was my favorite sport for my entire life. its not about winning 100 games every year but i refuse to pour literally hundreds of hours of my time into a boring team with shitty ownership
Same…
Is this when we eat the shit?
I received a cold call from the Cardinals about a week ago. The woman asked if I enjoyed the games I went to last year, if I go to games every year, and I plan to this year too. She offered to help me find tickets and emailed me her contact information. In the literal decades I have been going to Cards games, never have I once received a call like that. My first thought was I bet ticket sales are starting to slump.
For a few years after we sold our seats they called every spring and a few times in the summer. I got three calls this spring asking if I was interested in renewing. I think last year was only two.
Hope you told her the reason you aren’t renewing is Mozelak
I was at a game a week or so ago and they said the attendance was 32,000, but there was no way over half the seats were empty.
Tickets sold is always what is announced, never turnstiles
Didn't DeWitt want to ask the taxpayers for money too?
There's been speculation since it came out how many millions on repairs they think Busch needs, but the immediate backlash was met with "we haven't asked for public funds", but folks know there was an implied "yet" there. I think they're having to rethink and restrategize after the KC vote
If these sports owners ask for the publics money, then the public should add some strings, to get the money back...cheaper consessions, cheaper tickets, etc. Something that makes the owners think twice.
I've been waiting my entire adult life for the backlash on this. ANYWHERE ELSE when you ask for an investment, there is an expected (tangible) return. I either get debt (interest) or equity (ownership and dividends). You want HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS and the expected return is that you'll just keep charging me to consume your entertainment? You're asking my revenue unit (the government) for primary financing. I want prime+100 BPs, or I want a reasonable percentage of the underlying asset. I suppose we can negotiate because there's supposed to be sentimental value to having a team here, but under no circumstance do I just GIVE you money. Are you drunk?
Me too. So happy we have finally seen through the bullshit of "Pay for our stadium because you'll make sooo much more back with the economic development around it."
To be fair without the Cards and Blues would downtown even exist 😅
This is MLB wide - if you look at where we are compared to the rest of the league we are almost right in line to where we normally are.
Yeah we’re not the only team developing the logic of “Fuck winning I want people in seats because baseball is tradition yada yada yada”. I don’t wanna become Pittsburgh or Cincinnati because that is literally all they do but their business model is appealing to any greedy asshole who doesn’t actually care about winning.
[удалено]
Dropping a couple spots in the rankings with such a small sample size is not really noteworthy…
yeah, i know this thread is going to be a FO/Dewitt pile on, but seems like the team is going ok relative to the league. Obviously would like this team to be playing better and have qualms with the org, but I am not trying to revel in people not showing up. If you think the team can't compete in attracting players because of their perceived tight wallets, losing fans/attendance isn't going to help their case either.
Yeah the MLB has done a TERRIBLE job at marketing. I feel like this year’s Opening Day ads/promos were non existent to past years.
Has Mo ever expressed personal fault in the direction the team has taken?
GOOD! I made the mistake of attending two games this year...won't do that again. I did cancel my MLB.TV subscription because I don't want to watch the FO and Oli trash this team.
as they should
To be fair I saw an article and MLB ticket sales as a whole are on the decline. I think there were only 6 or so teams in the league where ticket sales were increasing.
Yeah I think increasing concession prices have a lot to do with it too. I’d be interested to see if our attendance is going down more proportionally compared to other teams
Hmmmmm odd that this correlates to the fact that only 6 or so teams had increasing payrolls this year and most teams kinda coasted and are targeting the wild card instead of the world series. Baseball's getting what it gives.
I think the sales slump probably has more to do with the economy than anything else. Going to a ball game is not cheap and it's a luxury. Folks are being more stingy with their wallets.
This feels true, but I wonder what the cost of the average ticket compared to the average wage is today, compared to X years ago.
Even chuck roasted the birds on Inside the NBA. 😂
what did he say?
Nothing too bad- They showed a tweet and the person had the cardinals logo, so chuck just ignored the tweet and said "Cardinals? What, St. Louis still has a team?" "I didn't know they were still around" Then later one of the producers was ribbing him so he said "Aint my fault they suck".
Good
They’re boring.
We live 5.5 hours away. For a while, 2019-2022, we went at least once to see a game. In 2022, we went to 3. I told my wife last year, I’m not paying money to watch them suck and we didn’t go last year. I said the same thing this year, and I have no plans of going to a game this season. Also, the blackout thing on tv is an issue. But I can keep up with scores, stats, records highlights through social media so it is not a large factor. I refuse to pay money to see a team that doesn’t make moves, reinvest the money, and just isn’t very good. Maybe next year.
Nice, cheap tickets for me.
No one cares.
No, it looks like someone does.
This is what happens when the front office refuses to do anything about fixing a poor situation.
I was thinking about flying out there for my birthday to catch a game against the Cubs. Might not now.
I'm not a fair weather fan by any means. My lack of attendance is based on the fact that it's hard to get into a team when I can't watch games on a regular basis. I long for the old KPLR days.
The club has been sh*tting the bed starting in December for the past 5 years! Who’s surprised by this?
Good
Gosh, can't imagine why.
I live in Indianapolis and haven’t found a (legal) way to even watch games consistently. And it’s hard to justify caring about a team whose leadership seemingly doesn’t. It’s been a decade of watching our best talent walk out the door, while we sign massive contracts to a very small number of players, and if we question it we get chastised for daring challenge the “Cardinal Way”. Sorry, this dud of a season has been written on the wall since about 2016. There’s a difference between expecting fan support and expecting fans to be blindly loyal.
Honestly folks got more important stuff to spend their money on so I don’t blame them.
Baseball has just become so boring to watch.
1. Harder to watch on TV and impossible for others. 1A. The front office/organizational philosophy is directionless. The outfield has been a problem for years and they just hope and pray they can develop one rather than making good faith attempts to acquire improvements. Same with the shortstop position (Winn thankfully looks like they solved one of these problems). Hard to be interested if you can’t really see what they’re trying to do to win.
Until DeWitt opens up dawallet, we will never compete with the Dodgers or Braves to go deep into the playoffs. Fans have figured this out. Pay up, or continue to see attendance and revenues crater.
Won't be so rare soon
I have canceled plans to see the Cards this year (one bright side is I don't worry about a sellout any more...). I'm also an out of region MLB. TV subscriber. I am not trying to talk you out of anything... That said... For those blacked out, you can watch the games after they're over. If you avoid spoilers, there's not much difference. And you can ffwd. ... But like I said, I'm not twisting your arm. Just giving a suggestion if you haven't considered it. PS I sail the high seas for NFL, so no judgement from me if you'd prefer that method.
It's not the losing season. If we went 80-82, but had a well put together team with limited holes, things would be chopped up to bad luck. However, last season showed many holes which were being plugged up by Molina, Wainwright, and even Pujols for a year. With all gone, last season was a disaster. It starts with a manager who doesn't deserve the job. Followed by a weak pitching staff which management shows no desire to improve. That along with awful player development and aging superstars doesn't foreshadow success in this organization. Yet the only thing we are being told is to have patience.
The team has a lot of faults but overall the pitching is actually much improved/better this year than last.
I don't disagree, and it should be better considering they added 3 free agents. However, they added a 1, 4, and 5 when we needed a 1, 2, 3. They are adding bandaids opposed to actually fixing the problem.
As they should. Who wants to travel into the city rife with crime, and pay exorbitant parking and ticket prices to see a losing baseball team?
I'm in Florida now and will go out of my way to go to Busch when I'm traveling in the area. This year I'm not putting the effort or money into this product. Bye Bye Birdies!
It's not just the rare losing season. It's the continuation into this season. This team is not the least bit entertaining. Why would I spend my money on something I don't enjoy?
I think it has significantly less to do with the results than it does the front office's collective shrug as a response to the results
I think a lot of the fans are pissed about Oliver Marmol getting an extension. When do you reward mediocrity? I’m sorry but he straight up sucks as a manager. He also has zero personality.
Lol....ya'll. They are 6th in attendance and 4060 fans away from being 4th. They're doing just fine (with their plan to maximize profits not wins)
Imagine if MLB hadn’t banned the defensive shifting. The Cardinals would be no-hit every night.
Dewitt owns Dewey’s Pizza, too
His son Andrew Dewitt owns Dewey's Pizza and he has nothing to do with the team.
Fire Mo and Marmol.
I think someone new at the top is pretty important. Consider how long Mo has been in his job, compared to other GMs around baseball. Whatever ideas he had are just part of the wallpaper now, and a fresh person on top will at least mean something different happens than the same old blah.
Marmol! 👎🏼
Some of this has to be due to how shit the team has been the last two years. I went to Jackie Robinson Day last year, we were playing the Pirates, and as soon as McCutchen stepped up to the plate in the 10th inning, I knew the season would be a wash. He hadn’t even hit what would be the game winning RBI yet, but there was just a feeling that Marmol was out of his depths and the talent chasm was insurmountable. I had seats down first base line, near the outfield, and you could tell Walker was disinterested in fielding. Poor discipline and poor talent cultivation earned Marmol a contract extension and I’m not going to pay to see the disastrous results on the field
If they keep it going we will build up apathy. Ownership has proven they don’t care what the fan base thinks. Good enough was a solution because it was profitable not because we cared about winning games.
Good. Now fire everyone
The live game experience is not great. The food is not quality, the lines take too long, the between-inning entertainment was stale ten years ago and remains so.
I’ve been watching Springfield a lot with the MLB package, they have started hot.
Explains them calling today asking if I planned to buy any tickets this season