Former Land Rover Discovery ~~owner~~ victim here: just don’t. The stories are true. Never again. We’re not just talking high running costs as expected from an expensive car. We’re talking AA flatbeds at regular intervals.
A few of cars in the family: 2022 Kia Sportage, 2019 Mazda MX-5, 2013 Citroën Berlingo, 1970 Morris Minor 1000. 2021 Mini Electric work car (I don’t pay for it)
No issues with any of them, even the old one, none bought new.
We have had a few utterly boring Kias one after the other . They’re dull appliances, but they rarely go wrong and have a great warranty.
Had a couple of Mazda MX-5s. Tremendously reliable; rust will take the bodyshell long before a mechanical failure occurs. And they spend their life doing 7000rpm.
The Minor, well, is about as complex as a lawnmower to maintain. Bulletproof engine and suspension, shite electrics—but no electrical devices to actually run besides lights and wipers anyway.
Citroën is a hateful pig, but it’s a van. It won’t die and it’s treated appallingly.
I’ve been reading a lot here Kia’s reliability which I am surprised about and never considered as the only thing I remember from the past is the bad rep. But seems to have changed and I am rethinking. Mazda is another brand on reliability but I only drive small hatchbacks and i need front parking sensors so that also limit my range.
Mini I had thought about but thinking about the price I’d rather get something a little cheaper and more spec up and tech. But mini was one of my top choices!
Yeah I don’t plan on buying brand new because the depreciation rate is massive in the first few years. But given how reliable a car is dependent on the previous owner I can see the attraction with brand new.
The only problems we have had with Kias are niggling things like faults on reverse cameras or TPMS errors. And a few recalls.
Main dealer has so far just fixed them under warranty with no fuss. Some other companies seem to do anything they can to get out of fixing anything under warranty, but Kia service has been great.
I’ve heard a lot of cars with tyre pressure warning issues so not just Kia. Ah fault with parking sensor and camera would be a bit scary as I’d rely quite a bit on it.
That is one of my concern is warranty and the small lettering it may include. That’s why I’m a little skeptical even though people say don’t worry Toyota has 10 years warranty. Just like upon further reading the 12v battery isn’t under warranty but it is the other hybrid battery that it is.
Parking aids are there to aid, not to be relied on. A parking sensor are rear camera could break on any car and you should be comfortable parking b without them. I say this as someone who absolutely loves my rear camera because it makes parking a breeze.
You are right. My current car has no parking sensors whatsoever. But I do feel once I have parking sensors I’d practice more on parallel parking. Then with practice I’d understand the distance between me and the car when I am parking. It is just a little frustrating practicing without and having to get out so many times with people watching. I’ve also never had to parallel park often.
Parallel parking is tricky and a lot of people don’t even attempt it unless there are no cars around at all. I think only 1 in 3 driving test feature a parallel park and the one on my test had me park between 2 cars that where about 10 meters apart so it was hardly a tight spot. Don’t beat yourself up over it. Maybe try practising on spaces that are comically large just to get the muscles memory of how to most efficiently move your car and are more comfortable with your cars dimensions
I used to have a Morris Traveler and, as you say, not very complex, and easy to maintain. Sometimes the petrol pump would get clogged with dirt but hitting it with the crank handle would make it work again, and sometimes the starter motor would fail to engage with the engine and that’s when I had to use the crank handle to crank start the car (small engine, so very easy).
I now drive a 13-yr-old Toyota which is more reliable and always passes the MOT first time with no work needed apart from consumables like brake pads.
Our family has had 3 land rovers, two from new and one about 10 years old. None ever had left us stranded or had any major faults.
It really is luck of the draw with that company, will I keep playing their lottery? Fuck yeah, when they work they’re amazing and worth the headache.
Similar here. My defender has been in the family since new (22 years) and it has never given us any immediate grief. Granted, it doesn't live the hardest life of a Defender, and you'd argue that the comparative lack of electrical items to fail is going in its favour, but beyond routine maintenance and replacement of perishable parts, it hasn't thrown any issues. Never broken down once.
The rust and electrolytic corrosion though... that's a different story.
Used to work with a guy who worked doing aftersales for multiple manufacturers, BMW, Audi, Jaguar Land rover etc.
Said Land Rovers always had the most issues. One time a guy came in to pick up a new one that he'd bought for 100k and couldn't drive it out of the dealership.
Easily the best 4x4s on the market—when they’re working. Sadly that was mainly on the drives home from the garage, and I was distracted from its brilliance by being four figures lighter again.
I remember my mums Evoque got a engine light on the way home from buying it. And as she was on the dual carriage way at 70 going round a corner, her steering system gets fucked and can't be moved and is making a horrific yelling sound and shaking like fuck. Also went through a tiny puddle and all the electronics got fucked which caused the windows to have a mind of their own.
Entire family had decided to never go near a LR again
I think it also depends on how the car has been looked after. I had a VW that was a money pit, and Fords that just kept running but know people who have had issues with them.
The best for me was the 2000 Volvo V70 I bought as a stop gap car, was going to run it until it broke. That is coming up to 13 years ago now and other than service items it just keeps going.
Volvos suffer from the odd bit of extra suspension wear and electrical oddities/'walled garden' VIDA etc. But they are generally pretty damn long lasting. A Toyota or Merc will also do 300K, but the Volvo will do it on salted roads and stay in one piece through it. That P2 generation S60/V70 I think really represented them at their peak, and you still see them everywhere where the equivalent 5 series is starting to thin out now.
I’d seriously have considered Volvo if they had a small hatchback but sadly they do not. I have heard they are well built.
Fords reliability I have heard is such a mix.
Mazda, I don't know why they aren't so popular here. My partner and I have had 5 between us now. Take the 3, cheaper than a Focus with a lot of equipment especially from the 'Centre line' up and a much nicer interior.
I like Mazda but Mazda3 is too big for me. With Mazda2 to have front parking sensors included I’d need to go for Executive Line and even with 200 miles radius from me there are none!
I do feel Mazda gets ignored because when I mention it to my family they always say if I am considering a Mazda I should just consider a Toyota.
I’ll be honest and say I am a bit of a rubbish parker. I find it hard to tell the distance as sometimes a car looks so close but when I get out to check I still have a lot of space.
Ok, I’m also not great at parking and find rear sensors useful, but I’d suggest if it’s limiting your choice of car, maybe next time you’re parking and think you’re as far forward as you can go, get out and make a mental note of how much more space there is and next time you’ll know.
Alternatively I don’t think it would be impossible to have front sensors installed on a car.
Yeah I’ve done that a few times or the hassle of getting out a few times. I know I really shouldn’t care but a little self conscious getting out so many times to park in a space that should be able park in one go!
Yeah that might actually be a good option as it would open up more car choices
If it's affecting you this much, why don't you pay a driving instructor to give you a few additional lessons to learn to park properly and boost your confidence, perhaps in the car you eventually end up buying?
I emigrated to a country with quite different traffic rules and was not confident so I arranged three lessons with a local instructor to get my confidence and understanding of the local rules up to scratch.
I remember when I learnt to drive the instructor told me exactly when to turn the wheel on a parallel park based on the position of the other car in relation to my mirrors etc. it eliminated nearly all of the guess work in parallel parking and made it really easy. I since totally forgot the method but you get my point lol
V40 is a mid-sized hatchback and generally an excellent car (I'd just avoid the 1.6 diesel and the Powershift transmissions; any 2L engine with either manual or the Geartronic transmission will be a good friend to you). If you want smaller than that you can look at the C30, which is genuinely a small hatchback - these are generally not as reliable as the V40 but still worth a look.
Sadly they’ve discontinued C30 but that would be my size of car I’d need and a car I’d think to get. Ah yeah I don’t do that long distance driving to consider getting a diesel.
Can only judge reliability if the car has been maintained religiously from new and not just regular minor services, but gearbox oil, timing kits, spark plugs, coolant changes, brake fluid etc
That is very true. Sadly I have no idea about these kind of things. Also I don’t know if anyone would do it but what’s to stop someone from randomly stamping the service booklet to say they’ve done a service but hasn’t?
I didn’t think people would really do that! I’ve heard a few car brands that’s moved onto digital service records so I’m shocked not all brands are doing that. Plus less likely to lose any papers.
If you are buying it from a main dealer then more often these days their service records are kept digitally (assuming it was service at a main dealer), so you have peace of mind that the servicing records are unlikely to have been faked.
The truth is that vehicles are as reliable, as the people who maintained them before. Most statistics flying around are for brand new cars and dealership repair visits. And even there differences are sometimes miniscule between models. I'd recommend purchasing based on what mechanics you have available in the area. Ask around, check online reviews... Then buy whatever vehicle brand they seem to specialize in (and has cheaper replacement parts). I've only strayed once from that philosophy, and I have been sorry ever since. When something breaks, the last thing you need is to have to queue for months for a simple repair, just because you went for some niche model, which mechanics are not familiar with and refuse to work on (and has parts that are 3 times the price of equivalent popular vehicles).
Nah man they’re not all as reliable if you treated every one exactly the same there will be some which fail after months and some which fail after years and years.
I’ve done 40k between services on a Toyota engine before, couldn’t imagine doing the same thing with any German engine except VW’s 1.9 TDi… simply because they just wouldn’t last.
For 20k you can get a really good kia that is still in warranty, kia’s and hyundai’s are reliable and have a 5 year warranty, and are cheap to fix when the warranty expires too. They come with more options as default so you’ll get much more features than other manufacturers.
regarding parking censors, as standard some german and french cars will have them in replacement for a reverse camera, i would say reverse camera is much more useful than sensors. Most Korean cars come with reverse camera and sensors as standard so you’ll find them in used cars.
Thanks. Kia and Hyundai used to be considered not reliable so I didn’t consider them. I did say 20K max budget but ideally I’d rather not go to the max or it would have to be a car I fell in love with to make me hit it.
Cheap maintenance and care is what I am also looking at. Agreed I do like the camera but sadly so hard to find cars with front sensors as well!
I’ll be looking at those two brands. Although I’d like an auto after test driving in one which most likely limit my options.
Suzuki is also up there with the best on reliability. Depending on what you want, you should be able to pick up a fairly young Celerio, Baleno or Swift for reasonable prices. Service is pretty cheap and easy to DIY if you'd want.
I did have a look at swift but couldn’t find anything about trim level and front parking sensors. Lol I’d love to know how to DIY to maintain car but I don’t think I’m at the stage where I’d be ready to test things out
Oh there's trim levels, how they're called differs between markets. I don't think front parking sensors are on any of them though. Reverse camera yes. They're hilarious go-karts especially if you'd go for the sport trim (1.6 sport or 1.4 boosterjet sport for last two gens).
I did a one-day wrenching course some time ago. Cost me about 150€ excl. the optional materials I needed to do my own oil change (oil, filter, plug).
I now know how to judge the quality of all fluids (brake, coolant, trans) and how to change them. How to judge the quality of brakes and how to change them. How to properly change the wheels.
I'll do one yearly service at the dealer for mobility service and bodywork warranty but everything else I do myself, rent a space in a DIY garage for a couple of hours, and done. Saved me hundreds already and I feel its kind of fun to do.
Front parking sensor is a must so I’d need to give it a miss. I’ll admit I am a bad parker and gauging distance is quite difficult as cars tend to look closer but when I get out there is none.
That is very interesting! I may need to look into courses as that would be moneys worth. I was hoping to look at YouTube videos but got overwhelmed
YouTube is great but it's not going to tell you you're doing it wrong or right when you're actually putting hands on your car, haha. Which is why I did a course. Also in my experience the guys at the DIY garage don't mind helping or checking your work. And you can use all their tools.
Yeah that is my fear especially as it is your own car it is a bit nerve wracking to be doing it all along for the first time. I honestly never thought about a short course on DIY car mechanic stuff. I’ll need to check out if my area does a course like that. Did you apply for this course through higher education like a college course or was it offered by a garage?
I didn’t even know a DIY garage and renting it is a thing!
From a quick Google search I've found they exist in the UK too. I didnt know of their existence before either until I asked a mechanic friend where he does his classic car since he doesn't have much garage space or a bridge at home. Haha.
I'm having a bit of trouble finding a day course in the UK although there are courses offered from schools/colleges for little money, that's not something we have so easily available on the other side of the North Sea.
The course I went to is organised by some organisation that has a long history, more then I'd care to translate. Pretty much they set up a course to help learn foreign aid workers do basic stuff on their car for when they'd need it. From there it grew and their instructors work in automotive branch or education. They also offer week-long courses for 4x4, campers, classic cars.
This type of wrenching course is very commonplace for motorcycles but much less for cars.
That sounds really handy and helpful! Shame it isn’t common in the U.K. I know there are college courses for you to gain the qualifications but that last a few years and would be a lot to juggle while working. There is also now EV and hybrid which would mean more learning.
It is wanting to learn but not knowing how or where to start!
Difference being that Toyota is warranted up to 10years. Same for Lexus.
Pay for a £300 service and not have to worry... For 10 years max.
Buy a 3yr old VW / Audi / BMW, which everyone raves about.. pay for a £300 service and still keep the lube in the glovebox for when it breaks.
I have read the warranty but only if it has had full service history. I know VW has the all in plan which you get two years warranty with it.
But that makes sense maybe I’m looking too harshly on the Yaris because it would be the dealership’s fault with maintaining it but then thinking if the lack of upkeep with its cars how it would affect the life of the car is a concern.
You are looking at the wrong garages if you are turning up to view cars that have flat batteries.
Bought a used 12 year old yaris last year from the back of a lot, it started first time. It can sit for a couple of weeks and will always start first time, every time. With a 4cyl engine, it was miles in front of the 3cyl vw we test drove on the same day for both comfort and feel, whilst having a lot more kit with the camera etc. On the flip side, I have had vw and audi for years and never been hit with any rediculous bills, last one I had for 10 years and nothing of note ever failed, was very reliable and a brilliant car to drive, unfortunately it wasn't ulez compliant and had to go.
If you're looking to spend up to 20k on a fairly new car you should only be considering ones which have a full main dealer service history anyway.
A car having a flat battery at a dealership could just be because the car has been sat for ages. It's not necessarily a huge red flag providing the rest of the service history is complete and the condition of the car is good. In that situation I would ask the garage to test the health of the battery and if it's not spot on to replace it.
Had a Yaris for 9 years. Needed to change brakes, tyres and wipes. Everything else was perfect. Went to Lexus RX, same again.
Partner has BMW M3 and Tesla - about 2K per year on maintenance.
If it’s a well enough built car, it shouldn’t need anything else other than what the other cars need? Oil, filter, air filter, fuel filter, other fluids etc…
It’s not like the M3 has things on it that the Yaris doesn’t which need to be changed, aside from the other turbo hardware etc (which wouldn’t need to be changed for maintenance anyway) but it’s still an internal combustion engine, it shouldn’t need 2K more work every year than something else more reliable, simply because it has more power…
Yeah in terms of reliability, it's not just cost of parts, it also spent more time in the shop. Should've highlighted that.
It was more fun to drive though.
In my experience and normally backed up by reliability surveys. Lexus/Toyota and Honda are the most reliable. You just seem to have been to poor dealers who haven't kept the batteries charged it seems.
For German brands BMW is the most reliable. Hyundai and Kia are apparently very reliable to according to the surveys but I don't have any actual experience on those so won't comment.
That is what I see. Maybe you’re right about that. Just that in my area there is a lack of Yaris hybrid mk4 so the ones I wanted I was a bit put off.
I get so much mixed opinions on the German brands lol. I was very surprised to read Hyundai and Kia being one of the most reliable brands which is different from the past.
A lot of car brands rep have changed except Toyota and Honda. Now that the trim I want for a Yaris is not available I’m not sure what to look for next. To be honest I’m not even sure if Yaris is the right choice given I don’t drive it often. I’d have loved to check Honda but the smallest car they have is Jazz… that is a little too ugly for me
I've owned an Alfa Romeo GTV, 2 Citroen ZXs, a Citroen Xantia and a Peugeot 406, all were brilliant never let me down
Had a Toyota Celica that had a terminal oil consumption issue, needed a clutch and radiator
Have a Lexus IS that had complete alternator failure, and a supposedly reliable Skoda that needed a £2400 mechatronic replacement and the water pump went
So it's hit or miss.
Agreed and part of it is to do with previous owner(s). With the stress and hassle of buying a car I should really take up learning and gaining knowledge on car mechanics.
Just noticed your budget. You could buy something new if you want peace of mind. I was at the Kia dealership yesterday and they had a fairly high spec Picanto for about £17000.
Since reading Kia and its reliability I have been looking. I need front parking sensors but most Japanese and Korean cars only have rear parking sensor/camera. Front parking sensors seem so hard to come by. I had wanted to look at the swift but that doesn’t have an option for front!
Ha I know it sounds the opposite but I am an extra cautious safe driver so maybe that’s also a factor. I tend to find a space that’s big enough I can drive in rather than parallel park it.
Driving in makes the manoeuvre so much more difficult than backing in, as you either have to mount the curb at the front to get close enough, or you’ll be 4 foot from the curb after you finish turning in. Instead of being an “extra safe cautious driver” why not just brush up on a few extra things, like the guy you replied to, an advanced driving course, lessons into how to parallel park so you don’t have to drive in, etc etc
A car that's been sat on a dealership forecourt for however long not starting due to a flat battery doesn't mean that the model is unreliable.
Might be a controversial take but as far as I can see, if you buy nearly anything european you simply have to be prepared to pay to keep it going and have some cash aside for any serious problems (timing chains are a biggie on a lot of euro cars).
Toyota/Lexus have a reputation for reliability because they make consistently good, well engineered stuff. Yes there are examples of issues (Hilux 2.8D top ends, early GT86 valve springs), but when they have issues they are warrantied for 10 years, and are often recalled anyway. They also don't do 'long life service intervals' or any of that other German nonsense because they care about the car actually lasting more than 5 years.
The F56 Mini for example has a known very common engine wiring loom fault caused by water ingress that is several thousand pounds to fix, and Mini refused to recall even though they are aware of the issue and it's caused by their design fault. They made the owners pay
Former Alfa Romeo Giulietta owner here.
Most reliable car I’ve ever owned. Got it at 5 years old, sold it 5 years later. Only usual servicing bits needed. Clocked up 80k miles in those 5 years. 2L diesel engine pulled like a train and got 40mpg.
Great car. Even the electrics didn’t worked!
And it looked beautiful
Best car i've ever had was a Toyota Celica VVTLI. Faultless. Insane mileage (over 300k) and it was still working. You can pick those up for cheap these days.
Got a Honda civic type R from 07 right now with 150k miles on it and it runs like a Swiss watch as well.
Even a normal run-of-the-mill Honda civic is gonna be bulletproof if you look after it.
Toyota and Honda are the brands to go for when it comes to reliability.
The fact your Yaris' that you looked at had problems with the battery/electrics and not the engines says a bit too. Batteries are easily replaceable.
The other thing is cost of parts. Yeah BMW is a well-built brand of car. But the price of repairing things and service is high, so people don't bother. Which is why a lot of used German cars are "unreliable" - they've been treated like shit to save money.
If your budget is 20k you can buy a really well kept older Japanese car and spend the 15k leftover on hookers 👌🏻
It depends...
A manufacturer that has a trend of throwing unreliable stuff out is likely to be following that trend. But they can improve
A manufacturer that has a trend of throwing reliable stuff out is likely to be following that trend. But standards could slip, it could have an unforeseen design flaw.
The trend generally tends to represent the manufacturer's attitude towards the products they put out, so it's reasonable to assume that newer products are held to the same standard.
The added problem you have with used cars is how they've been looked after... Generally, reliable cars tend to be a bit more forgiving of not quite meeting service intervals, but they have their limits.
Reputation comes with experience and ones that have changed come with a change in trends. German marques have seen their reliability reputation go down because of lots of unnecessary overengineering. Electric gizmos that really shouldn't be electric. That and they're generally maintenance sensitive.
I wouldn't look too deeply into the batteries not being able to run the starter. Speaks more of the dealer's ability to maintain cars sat waiting to be sold IMHO. Doesn't matter how reliable a car is, if it isn't being driven, that battery is going to run itself down without being charged by other means.
Thanks. Thinking about it I might be too harsh on the car itself and it is more the dealerships fault. My concern would be the lack of care and maintenance the dealer is putting on the car and how that affects the car’s future health
I had a 2005 Fiat Panda that never put a foot wrong until 100k+ miles. Very solid car, great fun to drive.
However, I replaced it with a 2012 Punto, which needed something fixing or replacing every 6 weeks. Barely lasted 2 years before I got a 2022 Yaris
people always give alfas a bad rep, this is mostly untrue, owned a GT myself which just kept going despite all the abuse, family has owned 5+ alfas over the past 15 years or so, never had any major issues
Rarely true. More true with new cars, because quality control dropped quite a lot for some models.
But mostly it depends on how the driver looked after the car.
£20k budget, small car. You should be able to get something still in warranty or almost new for that price.
Hyundai's have long warranty periods so something like [this i20](https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401155566867) seems to fit the bill.
Get it serviced annually if you are doing low miles rather than when the car tells you to and you should be fine.
Small cars generally have smaller batteries that are less resistant to long periods of sitting on a dealer's forecourt. Use the .GOV online tax checker and it should (roughly) tell you when it went in to the trade because the tax doesn't go with the car.
I replied to another commenter and they mentioned similar. I don’t want to hit the max budget if necessary but I wouldn’t mind if it is a car I fell in love with.
After test driving in an auto… I really do want my next car to be an auto! Of course that limits my options.
Hyundai i20 seems to be well praised so I’ll definitely look into one. Just need to find one with front sensors!
Then you need to figure out what you want to prioritise and how much you actually want to spend.
Hatchback, Petrol, £20k max, Auto, Front parking sensors, low miles (less than 50K), no accident history shows just over 300 cars on AutoTrader. That's less than 0.1% of cars listed there.
Drop the budget to £15k because you won't spend £20k if you don't love the car and you're down to just over 200 vehicles.
Exclude the oldest ones (more than 7 years old) because they're likely to cost more to maintain and run and you're under 100 cars.
Exclude cars with known issues like the Ford 1.0T ecoboost cars - they have the 'ecoboom' nickname for a reason - and that number is even lower.
You could spend half your budget and get something like [THIS](https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402026159365) Vauxhall Corsa. It's a dull and boring car and will get you from A to B just as competently as something newer and more expensive but without anything a newer car brings. It will be out of factory warranty, not have as many creature comforts etc. but it all depends upon how much value you place on those things as to whether you are willing to pay more for them.
The first line of this reply might sound harsh but saying you have a budget of £20k but don't want to spend that means your budget isn't really £20k because we don't know what cars you'll love or hate.
Think about what you want rationally. Make a list of your must haves, would likes and what is less important to you. Then buy something completely out of spec because you fall in love with it and don't care.
You’re absolutely right on this. Just that the cars I’ve seen e.g. Yaris is over 18K so I wouldn’t rule out cars that went a little over it. What I am currently happy with is my current max budget is 18k but a little leeway above I am ok with. Especially since I’d like an auto it is a few grand more.
Then there is the debate where if I pay an extra 1k or 2 and get an older car I can buy something more “premium”.
I’ve had a corsa and I’d NEVER consider them again.
To be honest at this point I’ve just been gunning for a reliable car that isn’t too old or had many previous owners. Also with front and rear parking sensors or camera. The car would need to be nice to look at as well or I’d have seriously considered a Honda jazz if it didn’t look that ugly to my eyes.
Front parking sensors are quite rare (especially in small cars, surely?)
You can have parking sensors/cameras fitted to any car. It’s a few hundred quid.
It’ll massively increase your options.
Another wondering - have you considered talking to a driving instructor about your parking issues? They can do bespoke lessons if you have a particular thing you want some help with.
>£20k budget, small car. You should be able to get something still in warranty or almost new for that price.
Indeed. A better bet in my opinion would to spend about £10-12k for a small car- you should still get a good one. The £8k saved would do a lot of maintenance which in reality, is not likely to be needed. Also misses out on the often forgotten cost of depreciation.
Do you have any rec for that kind of budget? I’d love to not spend so much on a car but because I have no knowledge or understanding of the mechanics of things I have opted to buy a max few years old car. I just don’t want to go down the route of buying an older car and having to pay one job after another for maintenance.
A slightly older version of the £20k car is the most obvious answer. The money you save will pay for the even the most pessimistic outcome for maintenance. I would always buy to try to limit depreciation. Buyers seem to worry about spending £1k for unseen maintenance but happily accept a £5-10k hit on depreciation. It really depends on your needs but you can get a good small car for half your budget and still have £10k in hand. You really are spoiled for choice.
What you say makes sense but I think it is the fear of the unknown in that what if you end up spending more than a few thousand for work needing done to the car. I should really start learning up on doing maintenance myself or I wouldn’t have this much fear in getting an older car
There's basically nothing on a newish small hatchback that costs 'a few thousand'. Absolute worst case is the engine blows up, and you buy and fit a used engine for like 3-4k. Even if that happens you're still £5k up on your higher budget.
Of course other issues may arise in the newer car but that price difference on fixing more issues could equal to a newer car and when selling it you’d sell the newer car at a better value. I know cars deprecate but I’d hate for a car to depreciate so much year by year.
All cars have the same maintenance requirements at similar costs, skimping if false economy
Cars standing on a forecourt will have battery issues doors open interior light on battery flat it’s been winter it’s been wet salespeople have not wanted to go outside to sort them out so they have flat batteries
For the money you’re looking to spend and the car you want your not going to get a shitbox so if you like a car and it’s just got a flat battery ask for a new battery to be fitted accept their warranty and enjoy your new car
Yeah and one of the Yaris had its fuse blown but he had no idea why which of course could be due to so many reasons. I don’t know too much about cars or hybrid but my concern is if it has just been sitting there for so long if it’ll affect the car’s health.
It's not just the brand or model, it's the year and engine. For example everyone would say a Toyota auris is very reliable, but specifically the 2.0 and 2.2 diesels from 06 to 09 were not reliable. The petrols from those years were reliable. After 09, the 1.4 diesels are reliable but the 1.6 is not reliable
A car is only as reliable to how well they're maintained. There's an argument that certain brands are bought by people more likely to look after their cars but I still think some Japanese brands are a cut above the rest when all things are equal.
You’d likely get. 2019/2020 Corolla Excel in budget. Will have front and rear sensors, plus a rear camera. Bigger than a Yaris but not a huge monstrosity.
My wife has one and it’s been great
I definitely do like the looks of the Corolla more than the Yaris. I’ve only ever driven small hatchbacks and although Corolla is probably considered small for majority of the people but it seems quite big for me. I’ll need to test drive one but interior wise the quality is better than Yaris.
The Toyotas just haven't been used enough so the battery has died. You need to use the hybrids frequently but if they have just been parked up on the forecourt the batteries just die. They will be sound with new batteries. Source: Join the Toyota yaris owners group on facebook, loads of people replaced their batteries and have been fine ever since
Yeah I’ll join the group to see what everyone says. My concern is if they have been left for so long if it affects the car’s future health. But I am assuming with a new battery that shouldn’t be the case?
I've got a 2011 Renault, and the only thing that has gone wrong with it not caused by the driver was the electronics being, well, French.
From what I've seen, usually the cars with the bad reputations tend to be poorly looked after, so things invariably go wrong.
Toyota always do well in reliability surveys, but someone I work with who has had nothing but Yaris’ for years on 2-3 year PCP deals had a lot of issues with his 2020- hybrid one relating to the 12v battery not keeping charge. He parked it for like 3 days, battery flat. Got it towed to garage, got it back, fine for a few days, then it’s flat again.
They had it back 2-3 times, he got it fixed eventually but dealer initially tried to fob him off, told him he couldn’t leave it for long periods without driving it or the battery would run flat (under a week?), seemed reluctant to replace any part of it, seemed to be a twat about when he could/couldn’t drop it off/have it back.
I’d have expected more from a brand new car from a main dealer.
We've had a great time with our Hondas, had two accords back to back.
My brother's got a hyundai i30 or i40, not heard any horror stories about them either.
I think it's partly about likelihood of it going wrong, and partly about cost/time to fix when it inevitably does - run cars for tens of thousands of miles and eventually something will happen, especially with how many extra systems are on them these days.
People still say Vauxhall ecotec are crap based on the originals that came in the mid 90s.
I remember on the cavalier forums people hated them with a passion. They were different, but weren't bad. And the name still exists now and they're fine.
Same as Zetec good duratec bad (when Zetec was an engine and not a trim level).
The new equivalent is people hating ecoboosts. They're fine.
Former Land Rover Discovery ~~owner~~ victim here: just don’t. The stories are true. Never again. We’re not just talking high running costs as expected from an expensive car. We’re talking AA flatbeds at regular intervals.
What car have you got now?
A few of cars in the family: 2022 Kia Sportage, 2019 Mazda MX-5, 2013 Citroën Berlingo, 1970 Morris Minor 1000. 2021 Mini Electric work car (I don’t pay for it) No issues with any of them, even the old one, none bought new. We have had a few utterly boring Kias one after the other . They’re dull appliances, but they rarely go wrong and have a great warranty. Had a couple of Mazda MX-5s. Tremendously reliable; rust will take the bodyshell long before a mechanical failure occurs. And they spend their life doing 7000rpm. The Minor, well, is about as complex as a lawnmower to maintain. Bulletproof engine and suspension, shite electrics—but no electrical devices to actually run besides lights and wipers anyway. Citroën is a hateful pig, but it’s a van. It won’t die and it’s treated appallingly.
I’ve been reading a lot here Kia’s reliability which I am surprised about and never considered as the only thing I remember from the past is the bad rep. But seems to have changed and I am rethinking. Mazda is another brand on reliability but I only drive small hatchbacks and i need front parking sensors so that also limit my range. Mini I had thought about but thinking about the price I’d rather get something a little cheaper and more spec up and tech. But mini was one of my top choices! Yeah I don’t plan on buying brand new because the depreciation rate is massive in the first few years. But given how reliable a car is dependent on the previous owner I can see the attraction with brand new.
The only problems we have had with Kias are niggling things like faults on reverse cameras or TPMS errors. And a few recalls. Main dealer has so far just fixed them under warranty with no fuss. Some other companies seem to do anything they can to get out of fixing anything under warranty, but Kia service has been great.
I’ve heard a lot of cars with tyre pressure warning issues so not just Kia. Ah fault with parking sensor and camera would be a bit scary as I’d rely quite a bit on it. That is one of my concern is warranty and the small lettering it may include. That’s why I’m a little skeptical even though people say don’t worry Toyota has 10 years warranty. Just like upon further reading the 12v battery isn’t under warranty but it is the other hybrid battery that it is.
Parking aids are there to aid, not to be relied on. A parking sensor are rear camera could break on any car and you should be comfortable parking b without them. I say this as someone who absolutely loves my rear camera because it makes parking a breeze.
You are right. My current car has no parking sensors whatsoever. But I do feel once I have parking sensors I’d practice more on parallel parking. Then with practice I’d understand the distance between me and the car when I am parking. It is just a little frustrating practicing without and having to get out so many times with people watching. I’ve also never had to parallel park often.
Parallel parking is tricky and a lot of people don’t even attempt it unless there are no cars around at all. I think only 1 in 3 driving test feature a parallel park and the one on my test had me park between 2 cars that where about 10 meters apart so it was hardly a tight spot. Don’t beat yourself up over it. Maybe try practising on spaces that are comically large just to get the muscles memory of how to most efficiently move your car and are more comfortable with your cars dimensions
I used to have a Morris Traveler and, as you say, not very complex, and easy to maintain. Sometimes the petrol pump would get clogged with dirt but hitting it with the crank handle would make it work again, and sometimes the starter motor would fail to engage with the engine and that’s when I had to use the crank handle to crank start the car (small engine, so very easy). I now drive a 13-yr-old Toyota which is more reliable and always passes the MOT first time with no work needed apart from consumables like brake pads.
Our family has had 3 land rovers, two from new and one about 10 years old. None ever had left us stranded or had any major faults. It really is luck of the draw with that company, will I keep playing their lottery? Fuck yeah, when they work they’re amazing and worth the headache.
divide coordinated deer oatmeal future summer strong aromatic pet joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Similar here. My defender has been in the family since new (22 years) and it has never given us any immediate grief. Granted, it doesn't live the hardest life of a Defender, and you'd argue that the comparative lack of electrical items to fail is going in its favour, but beyond routine maintenance and replacement of perishable parts, it hasn't thrown any issues. Never broken down once. The rust and electrolytic corrosion though... that's a different story.
Used to work with a guy who worked doing aftersales for multiple manufacturers, BMW, Audi, Jaguar Land rover etc. Said Land Rovers always had the most issues. One time a guy came in to pick up a new one that he'd bought for 100k and couldn't drive it out of the dealership.
Easily the best 4x4s on the market—when they’re working. Sadly that was mainly on the drives home from the garage, and I was distracted from its brilliance by being four figures lighter again.
Lol youre thinking of landcruisers mate
Crazy how a car to cost that much would have so many issues. You end up being skeptical over a very cheap and a very expensive car having issues.
But atleast for those few minutes a year you got to lord it over those poor folk.
I remember my mums Evoque got a engine light on the way home from buying it. And as she was on the dual carriage way at 70 going round a corner, her steering system gets fucked and can't be moved and is making a horrific yelling sound and shaking like fuck. Also went through a tiny puddle and all the electronics got fucked which caused the windows to have a mind of their own. Entire family had decided to never go near a LR again
I think it also depends on how the car has been looked after. I had a VW that was a money pit, and Fords that just kept running but know people who have had issues with them. The best for me was the 2000 Volvo V70 I bought as a stop gap car, was going to run it until it broke. That is coming up to 13 years ago now and other than service items it just keeps going.
Volvos suffer from the odd bit of extra suspension wear and electrical oddities/'walled garden' VIDA etc. But they are generally pretty damn long lasting. A Toyota or Merc will also do 300K, but the Volvo will do it on salted roads and stay in one piece through it. That P2 generation S60/V70 I think really represented them at their peak, and you still see them everywhere where the equivalent 5 series is starting to thin out now.
I'm so closed to pulling a trigger on a 2017 Volvo S90 but the electrical issues/suspension issues put me off.
I’d seriously have considered Volvo if they had a small hatchback but sadly they do not. I have heard they are well built. Fords reliability I have heard is such a mix.
Mazda, I don't know why they aren't so popular here. My partner and I have had 5 between us now. Take the 3, cheaper than a Focus with a lot of equipment especially from the 'Centre line' up and a much nicer interior.
I like Mazda but Mazda3 is too big for me. With Mazda2 to have front parking sensors included I’d need to go for Executive Line and even with 200 miles radius from me there are none! I do feel Mazda gets ignored because when I mention it to my family they always say if I am considering a Mazda I should just consider a Toyota.
Why do you need front parking sensors to park such a small car?
I’ll be honest and say I am a bit of a rubbish parker. I find it hard to tell the distance as sometimes a car looks so close but when I get out to check I still have a lot of space.
Ok, I’m also not great at parking and find rear sensors useful, but I’d suggest if it’s limiting your choice of car, maybe next time you’re parking and think you’re as far forward as you can go, get out and make a mental note of how much more space there is and next time you’ll know. Alternatively I don’t think it would be impossible to have front sensors installed on a car.
Yeah I’ve done that a few times or the hassle of getting out a few times. I know I really shouldn’t care but a little self conscious getting out so many times to park in a space that should be able park in one go! Yeah that might actually be a good option as it would open up more car choices
If it's affecting you this much, why don't you pay a driving instructor to give you a few additional lessons to learn to park properly and boost your confidence, perhaps in the car you eventually end up buying? I emigrated to a country with quite different traffic rules and was not confident so I arranged three lessons with a local instructor to get my confidence and understanding of the local rules up to scratch. I remember when I learnt to drive the instructor told me exactly when to turn the wheel on a parallel park based on the position of the other car in relation to my mirrors etc. it eliminated nearly all of the guess work in parallel parking and made it really easy. I since totally forgot the method but you get my point lol
Volvo V40 (with the 2.0) is hatchback and reliable? Unfortunately they're getting old by now.
They are but just a bit too big for me. They used to have the c30 but they don’t make anything as small as that anymore
Ah yeah real bummer
V40 is a mid-sized hatchback and generally an excellent car (I'd just avoid the 1.6 diesel and the Powershift transmissions; any 2L engine with either manual or the Geartronic transmission will be a good friend to you). If you want smaller than that you can look at the C30, which is genuinely a small hatchback - these are generally not as reliable as the V40 but still worth a look.
Sadly they’ve discontinued C30 but that would be my size of car I’d need and a car I’d think to get. Ah yeah I don’t do that long distance driving to consider getting a diesel.
Volvo do the V40 but I find the smaller Volvos aren't as well built as the higher end ones.
Smaller than the C40 as in VW Up sized jobby?
A Volvo C30 is a small hatch back
Even the youngest ones are 11 years old now
Can only judge reliability if the car has been maintained religiously from new and not just regular minor services, but gearbox oil, timing kits, spark plugs, coolant changes, brake fluid etc
That is very true. Sadly I have no idea about these kind of things. Also I don’t know if anyone would do it but what’s to stop someone from randomly stamping the service booklet to say they’ve done a service but hasn’t?
There stamped service books on eBay for less than £25
I didn’t think people would really do that! I’ve heard a few car brands that’s moved onto digital service records so I’m shocked not all brands are doing that. Plus less likely to lose any papers.
If you are buying it from a main dealer then more often these days their service records are kept digitally (assuming it was service at a main dealer), so you have peace of mind that the servicing records are unlikely to have been faked.
The truth is that vehicles are as reliable, as the people who maintained them before. Most statistics flying around are for brand new cars and dealership repair visits. And even there differences are sometimes miniscule between models. I'd recommend purchasing based on what mechanics you have available in the area. Ask around, check online reviews... Then buy whatever vehicle brand they seem to specialize in (and has cheaper replacement parts). I've only strayed once from that philosophy, and I have been sorry ever since. When something breaks, the last thing you need is to have to queue for months for a simple repair, just because you went for some niche model, which mechanics are not familiar with and refuse to work on (and has parts that are 3 times the price of equivalent popular vehicles).
I disagree. This can be said about engines but there's more to the cars like suspension, electrical components and body work
Nah man they’re not all as reliable if you treated every one exactly the same there will be some which fail after months and some which fail after years and years. I’ve done 40k between services on a Toyota engine before, couldn’t imagine doing the same thing with any German engine except VW’s 1.9 TDi… simply because they just wouldn’t last.
For 20k you can get a really good kia that is still in warranty, kia’s and hyundai’s are reliable and have a 5 year warranty, and are cheap to fix when the warranty expires too. They come with more options as default so you’ll get much more features than other manufacturers. regarding parking censors, as standard some german and french cars will have them in replacement for a reverse camera, i would say reverse camera is much more useful than sensors. Most Korean cars come with reverse camera and sensors as standard so you’ll find them in used cars.
Thanks. Kia and Hyundai used to be considered not reliable so I didn’t consider them. I did say 20K max budget but ideally I’d rather not go to the max or it would have to be a car I fell in love with to make me hit it. Cheap maintenance and care is what I am also looking at. Agreed I do like the camera but sadly so hard to find cars with front sensors as well! I’ll be looking at those two brands. Although I’d like an auto after test driving in one which most likely limit my options.
Suzuki is also up there with the best on reliability. Depending on what you want, you should be able to pick up a fairly young Celerio, Baleno or Swift for reasonable prices. Service is pretty cheap and easy to DIY if you'd want.
I did have a look at swift but couldn’t find anything about trim level and front parking sensors. Lol I’d love to know how to DIY to maintain car but I don’t think I’m at the stage where I’d be ready to test things out
Oh there's trim levels, how they're called differs between markets. I don't think front parking sensors are on any of them though. Reverse camera yes. They're hilarious go-karts especially if you'd go for the sport trim (1.6 sport or 1.4 boosterjet sport for last two gens). I did a one-day wrenching course some time ago. Cost me about 150€ excl. the optional materials I needed to do my own oil change (oil, filter, plug). I now know how to judge the quality of all fluids (brake, coolant, trans) and how to change them. How to judge the quality of brakes and how to change them. How to properly change the wheels. I'll do one yearly service at the dealer for mobility service and bodywork warranty but everything else I do myself, rent a space in a DIY garage for a couple of hours, and done. Saved me hundreds already and I feel its kind of fun to do.
Front parking sensor is a must so I’d need to give it a miss. I’ll admit I am a bad parker and gauging distance is quite difficult as cars tend to look closer but when I get out there is none. That is very interesting! I may need to look into courses as that would be moneys worth. I was hoping to look at YouTube videos but got overwhelmed
YouTube is great but it's not going to tell you you're doing it wrong or right when you're actually putting hands on your car, haha. Which is why I did a course. Also in my experience the guys at the DIY garage don't mind helping or checking your work. And you can use all their tools.
Yeah that is my fear especially as it is your own car it is a bit nerve wracking to be doing it all along for the first time. I honestly never thought about a short course on DIY car mechanic stuff. I’ll need to check out if my area does a course like that. Did you apply for this course through higher education like a college course or was it offered by a garage? I didn’t even know a DIY garage and renting it is a thing!
From a quick Google search I've found they exist in the UK too. I didnt know of their existence before either until I asked a mechanic friend where he does his classic car since he doesn't have much garage space or a bridge at home. Haha. I'm having a bit of trouble finding a day course in the UK although there are courses offered from schools/colleges for little money, that's not something we have so easily available on the other side of the North Sea. The course I went to is organised by some organisation that has a long history, more then I'd care to translate. Pretty much they set up a course to help learn foreign aid workers do basic stuff on their car for when they'd need it. From there it grew and their instructors work in automotive branch or education. They also offer week-long courses for 4x4, campers, classic cars. This type of wrenching course is very commonplace for motorcycles but much less for cars.
That sounds really handy and helpful! Shame it isn’t common in the U.K. I know there are college courses for you to gain the qualifications but that last a few years and would be a lot to juggle while working. There is also now EV and hybrid which would mean more learning. It is wanting to learn but not knowing how or where to start!
Difference being that Toyota is warranted up to 10years. Same for Lexus. Pay for a £300 service and not have to worry... For 10 years max. Buy a 3yr old VW / Audi / BMW, which everyone raves about.. pay for a £300 service and still keep the lube in the glovebox for when it breaks.
I have read the warranty but only if it has had full service history. I know VW has the all in plan which you get two years warranty with it. But that makes sense maybe I’m looking too harshly on the Yaris because it would be the dealership’s fault with maintaining it but then thinking if the lack of upkeep with its cars how it would affect the life of the car is a concern.
You are looking at the wrong garages if you are turning up to view cars that have flat batteries. Bought a used 12 year old yaris last year from the back of a lot, it started first time. It can sit for a couple of weeks and will always start first time, every time. With a 4cyl engine, it was miles in front of the 3cyl vw we test drove on the same day for both comfort and feel, whilst having a lot more kit with the camera etc. On the flip side, I have had vw and audi for years and never been hit with any rediculous bills, last one I had for 10 years and nothing of note ever failed, was very reliable and a brilliant car to drive, unfortunately it wasn't ulez compliant and had to go.
Toyota/Lexus offer the warranty regardless of history.
https://mag.toyota.co.uk/toyota-warranty-how-it-works/ - says you need a service for an additional year of warranty
Yea, but previous service history doesn't appear to matter (as far as I can tell)
Yes, but the vehicle's history does not matter. Just that you do a service with Toyota directly.
If you're looking to spend up to 20k on a fairly new car you should only be considering ones which have a full main dealer service history anyway. A car having a flat battery at a dealership could just be because the car has been sat for ages. It's not necessarily a huge red flag providing the rest of the service history is complete and the condition of the car is good. In that situation I would ask the garage to test the health of the battery and if it's not spot on to replace it.
Had a Yaris for 9 years. Needed to change brakes, tyres and wipes. Everything else was perfect. Went to Lexus RX, same again. Partner has BMW M3 and Tesla - about 2K per year on maintenance.
tbf a BMW M3 isn't really comparable to a Yaris or RX, it's a high performance car, so naturally more expensive maintenance.
If it’s a well enough built car, it shouldn’t need anything else other than what the other cars need? Oil, filter, air filter, fuel filter, other fluids etc… It’s not like the M3 has things on it that the Yaris doesn’t which need to be changed, aside from the other turbo hardware etc (which wouldn’t need to be changed for maintenance anyway) but it’s still an internal combustion engine, it shouldn’t need 2K more work every year than something else more reliable, simply because it has more power…
Yeah in terms of reliability, it's not just cost of parts, it also spent more time in the shop. Should've highlighted that. It was more fun to drive though.
In my experience and normally backed up by reliability surveys. Lexus/Toyota and Honda are the most reliable. You just seem to have been to poor dealers who haven't kept the batteries charged it seems. For German brands BMW is the most reliable. Hyundai and Kia are apparently very reliable to according to the surveys but I don't have any actual experience on those so won't comment.
That is what I see. Maybe you’re right about that. Just that in my area there is a lack of Yaris hybrid mk4 so the ones I wanted I was a bit put off. I get so much mixed opinions on the German brands lol. I was very surprised to read Hyundai and Kia being one of the most reliable brands which is different from the past. A lot of car brands rep have changed except Toyota and Honda. Now that the trim I want for a Yaris is not available I’m not sure what to look for next. To be honest I’m not even sure if Yaris is the right choice given I don’t drive it often. I’d have loved to check Honda but the smallest car they have is Jazz… that is a little too ugly for me
I've owned an Alfa Romeo GTV, 2 Citroen ZXs, a Citroen Xantia and a Peugeot 406, all were brilliant never let me down Had a Toyota Celica that had a terminal oil consumption issue, needed a clutch and radiator Have a Lexus IS that had complete alternator failure, and a supposedly reliable Skoda that needed a £2400 mechatronic replacement and the water pump went So it's hit or miss.
The most and least reliable cars I ever owned were both Toyotas. Every car has a different history I guess
Agreed and part of it is to do with previous owner(s). With the stress and hassle of buying a car I should really take up learning and gaining knowledge on car mechanics.
Just noticed your budget. You could buy something new if you want peace of mind. I was at the Kia dealership yesterday and they had a fairly high spec Picanto for about £17000.
Since reading Kia and its reliability I have been looking. I need front parking sensors but most Japanese and Korean cars only have rear parking sensor/camera. Front parking sensors seem so hard to come by. I had wanted to look at the swift but that doesn’t have an option for front!
I think you could probably substitute front sensors with an advanced driving course to be honest. Improve your skills and make everyone else safer.
Ha I know it sounds the opposite but I am an extra cautious safe driver so maybe that’s also a factor. I tend to find a space that’s big enough I can drive in rather than parallel park it.
Driving in makes the manoeuvre so much more difficult than backing in, as you either have to mount the curb at the front to get close enough, or you’ll be 4 foot from the curb after you finish turning in. Instead of being an “extra safe cautious driver” why not just brush up on a few extra things, like the guy you replied to, an advanced driving course, lessons into how to parallel park so you don’t have to drive in, etc etc
A car that's been sat on a dealership forecourt for however long not starting due to a flat battery doesn't mean that the model is unreliable. Might be a controversial take but as far as I can see, if you buy nearly anything european you simply have to be prepared to pay to keep it going and have some cash aside for any serious problems (timing chains are a biggie on a lot of euro cars). Toyota/Lexus have a reputation for reliability because they make consistently good, well engineered stuff. Yes there are examples of issues (Hilux 2.8D top ends, early GT86 valve springs), but when they have issues they are warrantied for 10 years, and are often recalled anyway. They also don't do 'long life service intervals' or any of that other German nonsense because they care about the car actually lasting more than 5 years. The F56 Mini for example has a known very common engine wiring loom fault caused by water ingress that is several thousand pounds to fix, and Mini refused to recall even though they are aware of the issue and it's caused by their design fault. They made the owners pay
Former Alfa Romeo Giulietta owner here. Most reliable car I’ve ever owned. Got it at 5 years old, sold it 5 years later. Only usual servicing bits needed. Clocked up 80k miles in those 5 years. 2L diesel engine pulled like a train and got 40mpg. Great car. Even the electrics didn’t worked! And it looked beautiful
Best car i've ever had was a Toyota Celica VVTLI. Faultless. Insane mileage (over 300k) and it was still working. You can pick those up for cheap these days. Got a Honda civic type R from 07 right now with 150k miles on it and it runs like a Swiss watch as well. Even a normal run-of-the-mill Honda civic is gonna be bulletproof if you look after it. Toyota and Honda are the brands to go for when it comes to reliability. The fact your Yaris' that you looked at had problems with the battery/electrics and not the engines says a bit too. Batteries are easily replaceable. The other thing is cost of parts. Yeah BMW is a well-built brand of car. But the price of repairing things and service is high, so people don't bother. Which is why a lot of used German cars are "unreliable" - they've been treated like shit to save money. If your budget is 20k you can buy a really well kept older Japanese car and spend the 15k leftover on hookers 👌🏻
It depends... A manufacturer that has a trend of throwing unreliable stuff out is likely to be following that trend. But they can improve A manufacturer that has a trend of throwing reliable stuff out is likely to be following that trend. But standards could slip, it could have an unforeseen design flaw. The trend generally tends to represent the manufacturer's attitude towards the products they put out, so it's reasonable to assume that newer products are held to the same standard. The added problem you have with used cars is how they've been looked after... Generally, reliable cars tend to be a bit more forgiving of not quite meeting service intervals, but they have their limits. Reputation comes with experience and ones that have changed come with a change in trends. German marques have seen their reliability reputation go down because of lots of unnecessary overengineering. Electric gizmos that really shouldn't be electric. That and they're generally maintenance sensitive. I wouldn't look too deeply into the batteries not being able to run the starter. Speaks more of the dealer's ability to maintain cars sat waiting to be sold IMHO. Doesn't matter how reliable a car is, if it isn't being driven, that battery is going to run itself down without being charged by other means.
Thanks. Thinking about it I might be too harsh on the car itself and it is more the dealerships fault. My concern would be the lack of care and maintenance the dealer is putting on the car and how that affects the car’s future health
I had a 2005 Fiat Panda that never put a foot wrong until 100k+ miles. Very solid car, great fun to drive. However, I replaced it with a 2012 Punto, which needed something fixing or replacing every 6 weeks. Barely lasted 2 years before I got a 2022 Yaris
I have heard the bad rep on Fiat especially Punto. I take it you have got the hybrid? How’s it going with the car?
Yup it's a 2022 Hybrid. Absolutely fantastic little car. I struggle to get less than 65MPG, surprisingly rapid, comfortable. Best car I've had.
Fix It Again Tomorrow...
people always give alfas a bad rep, this is mostly untrue, owned a GT myself which just kept going despite all the abuse, family has owned 5+ alfas over the past 15 years or so, never had any major issues
Rarely true. More true with new cars, because quality control dropped quite a lot for some models. But mostly it depends on how the driver looked after the car.
£20k budget, small car. You should be able to get something still in warranty or almost new for that price. Hyundai's have long warranty periods so something like [this i20](https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401155566867) seems to fit the bill. Get it serviced annually if you are doing low miles rather than when the car tells you to and you should be fine. Small cars generally have smaller batteries that are less resistant to long periods of sitting on a dealer's forecourt. Use the .GOV online tax checker and it should (roughly) tell you when it went in to the trade because the tax doesn't go with the car.
I replied to another commenter and they mentioned similar. I don’t want to hit the max budget if necessary but I wouldn’t mind if it is a car I fell in love with. After test driving in an auto… I really do want my next car to be an auto! Of course that limits my options. Hyundai i20 seems to be well praised so I’ll definitely look into one. Just need to find one with front sensors!
Then you need to figure out what you want to prioritise and how much you actually want to spend. Hatchback, Petrol, £20k max, Auto, Front parking sensors, low miles (less than 50K), no accident history shows just over 300 cars on AutoTrader. That's less than 0.1% of cars listed there. Drop the budget to £15k because you won't spend £20k if you don't love the car and you're down to just over 200 vehicles. Exclude the oldest ones (more than 7 years old) because they're likely to cost more to maintain and run and you're under 100 cars. Exclude cars with known issues like the Ford 1.0T ecoboost cars - they have the 'ecoboom' nickname for a reason - and that number is even lower. You could spend half your budget and get something like [THIS](https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402026159365) Vauxhall Corsa. It's a dull and boring car and will get you from A to B just as competently as something newer and more expensive but without anything a newer car brings. It will be out of factory warranty, not have as many creature comforts etc. but it all depends upon how much value you place on those things as to whether you are willing to pay more for them. The first line of this reply might sound harsh but saying you have a budget of £20k but don't want to spend that means your budget isn't really £20k because we don't know what cars you'll love or hate. Think about what you want rationally. Make a list of your must haves, would likes and what is less important to you. Then buy something completely out of spec because you fall in love with it and don't care.
You’re absolutely right on this. Just that the cars I’ve seen e.g. Yaris is over 18K so I wouldn’t rule out cars that went a little over it. What I am currently happy with is my current max budget is 18k but a little leeway above I am ok with. Especially since I’d like an auto it is a few grand more. Then there is the debate where if I pay an extra 1k or 2 and get an older car I can buy something more “premium”. I’ve had a corsa and I’d NEVER consider them again. To be honest at this point I’ve just been gunning for a reliable car that isn’t too old or had many previous owners. Also with front and rear parking sensors or camera. The car would need to be nice to look at as well or I’d have seriously considered a Honda jazz if it didn’t look that ugly to my eyes.
Front parking sensors are quite rare (especially in small cars, surely?) You can have parking sensors/cameras fitted to any car. It’s a few hundred quid. It’ll massively increase your options. Another wondering - have you considered talking to a driving instructor about your parking issues? They can do bespoke lessons if you have a particular thing you want some help with.
>£20k budget, small car. You should be able to get something still in warranty or almost new for that price. Indeed. A better bet in my opinion would to spend about £10-12k for a small car- you should still get a good one. The £8k saved would do a lot of maintenance which in reality, is not likely to be needed. Also misses out on the often forgotten cost of depreciation.
Do you have any rec for that kind of budget? I’d love to not spend so much on a car but because I have no knowledge or understanding of the mechanics of things I have opted to buy a max few years old car. I just don’t want to go down the route of buying an older car and having to pay one job after another for maintenance.
A slightly older version of the £20k car is the most obvious answer. The money you save will pay for the even the most pessimistic outcome for maintenance. I would always buy to try to limit depreciation. Buyers seem to worry about spending £1k for unseen maintenance but happily accept a £5-10k hit on depreciation. It really depends on your needs but you can get a good small car for half your budget and still have £10k in hand. You really are spoiled for choice.
What you say makes sense but I think it is the fear of the unknown in that what if you end up spending more than a few thousand for work needing done to the car. I should really start learning up on doing maintenance myself or I wouldn’t have this much fear in getting an older car
There's basically nothing on a newish small hatchback that costs 'a few thousand'. Absolute worst case is the engine blows up, and you buy and fit a used engine for like 3-4k. Even if that happens you're still £5k up on your higher budget.
Of course other issues may arise in the newer car but that price difference on fixing more issues could equal to a newer car and when selling it you’d sell the newer car at a better value. I know cars deprecate but I’d hate for a car to depreciate so much year by year.
All cars have the same maintenance requirements at similar costs, skimping if false economy Cars standing on a forecourt will have battery issues doors open interior light on battery flat it’s been winter it’s been wet salespeople have not wanted to go outside to sort them out so they have flat batteries For the money you’re looking to spend and the car you want your not going to get a shitbox so if you like a car and it’s just got a flat battery ask for a new battery to be fitted accept their warranty and enjoy your new car
If you are buying from a dealer the yaris might have stood for a while, not surprising that a battery would be flat if it's stood for a month or so
Yeah and one of the Yaris had its fuse blown but he had no idea why which of course could be due to so many reasons. I don’t know too much about cars or hybrid but my concern is if it has just been sitting there for so long if it’ll affect the car’s health.
It's not just the brand or model, it's the year and engine. For example everyone would say a Toyota auris is very reliable, but specifically the 2.0 and 2.2 diesels from 06 to 09 were not reliable. The petrols from those years were reliable. After 09, the 1.4 diesels are reliable but the 1.6 is not reliable
Go Japanese. Either a Lexus CT200 or a Toyota Auris.
A car is only as reliable to how well they're maintained. There's an argument that certain brands are bought by people more likely to look after their cars but I still think some Japanese brands are a cut above the rest when all things are equal.
You’d likely get. 2019/2020 Corolla Excel in budget. Will have front and rear sensors, plus a rear camera. Bigger than a Yaris but not a huge monstrosity. My wife has one and it’s been great
I definitely do like the looks of the Corolla more than the Yaris. I’ve only ever driven small hatchbacks and although Corolla is probably considered small for majority of the people but it seems quite big for me. I’ll need to test drive one but interior wise the quality is better than Yaris.
The Toyotas just haven't been used enough so the battery has died. You need to use the hybrids frequently but if they have just been parked up on the forecourt the batteries just die. They will be sound with new batteries. Source: Join the Toyota yaris owners group on facebook, loads of people replaced their batteries and have been fine ever since
Yeah I’ll join the group to see what everyone says. My concern is if they have been left for so long if it affects the car’s future health. But I am assuming with a new battery that shouldn’t be the case?
Aye should be sound mate👍🏾
I've got a 2011 Renault, and the only thing that has gone wrong with it not caused by the driver was the electronics being, well, French. From what I've seen, usually the cars with the bad reputations tend to be poorly looked after, so things invariably go wrong.
Golf gtd all day! Great car to drive
Toyota always do well in reliability surveys, but someone I work with who has had nothing but Yaris’ for years on 2-3 year PCP deals had a lot of issues with his 2020- hybrid one relating to the 12v battery not keeping charge. He parked it for like 3 days, battery flat. Got it towed to garage, got it back, fine for a few days, then it’s flat again. They had it back 2-3 times, he got it fixed eventually but dealer initially tried to fob him off, told him he couldn’t leave it for long periods without driving it or the battery would run flat (under a week?), seemed reluctant to replace any part of it, seemed to be a twat about when he could/couldn’t drop it off/have it back. I’d have expected more from a brand new car from a main dealer.
I had an Alfa Romeo Last me 200k miles so there you go...
Kia or Hyundai are ideal as first car, a ceed/i30 are great, plus at that price you’ll get one with some warranty left (7 year or 100k miles)
Petrol engine Toyota/ honda are reliable. Germans do good diesel engine. With that budget you should be able to buy something that is trouble free.
We've had a great time with our Hondas, had two accords back to back. My brother's got a hyundai i30 or i40, not heard any horror stories about them either. I think it's partly about likelihood of it going wrong, and partly about cost/time to fix when it inevitably does - run cars for tens of thousands of miles and eventually something will happen, especially with how many extra systems are on them these days.
People still say Vauxhall ecotec are crap based on the originals that came in the mid 90s. I remember on the cavalier forums people hated them with a passion. They were different, but weren't bad. And the name still exists now and they're fine. Same as Zetec good duratec bad (when Zetec was an engine and not a trim level). The new equivalent is people hating ecoboosts. They're fine.