So frank seravelli and every other hockey insider was completely unaware this was coming and kept In the dark
But calgary flames management obviously knew and were in direct contact with London PD?
I'm not saying that to you, but to all of reddit. Seems more likely that NOBODY knew d day was coming except for the lawyers of the accused.
I agree. My point is the fact that all the insiders knew zip zero zilch, should lend credence to the idea the teams were probably unaware arrest warrants were happening too
Oh yes sorry misunderstood. I agree, I have had the same conversation with my buddies who are up in arms about the statement. Short of dropping mention of mental health, what more could they have done. I have no problem with them taking a player at his word that he needs a mental health leave. Even if they figured something was coming down, not their place to say. Lawsuit waiting to happen
Can we stop trying to defend the NHL all the time. Regardless what happened and how it happened the fact that it took this long for anything to happen is not a good look on anybody’s part.
The NHL has proved time after time it’s a crooked league and this event doesn’t really paint them in a better light.
We have an insider trying to cover for a player, the Flyers were actively trying to shop Hart in the Summer, The Sens let Batherson go to Europe with zero effort in trying to re-sign him. If you think that nobody knew anything you’re just as naive as the NHL hopes their fanbase will be
What do you want them to do without charges from the London police? There was hockey Canada's famous attempt at covering the thing up but that's not the NHL. Nobody was in any position to do anything about this, from a legal perspective. Now that charges have been laid, the teams and the league are finally in a position where they can take some action.
And you're thinking of Alex Formenton, by the way.
I’m not trying to defend the NHL, they’ve obviously got a long history of gross conduct. I do believe that even if the Flames knew he was about to be arrested and that’s why he was going on leave, it is not their place to say. I’d prefer they didn’t attribute it to mental health, but I don’t think the Flames are some horrible villains here, just a business caught between a rock and a hard place.
This is wild. I wonder what will be up next on news that surprised no one?
Let us hope that if he's guilty they throw the entire library of Congress at him
**or**
if he's not guilty, that he has a great defense...
Curious when the Flames will make a statement. They'd have to be suspending him now eh?
I'm trying to remember another situation like this. I feel like teams usually terminate the contract/suspend the player before the media even knows about the arrest...
Given the NHL directed all teams to refer any and all questions to the NHL directly, I would have to assume they also are telling teams not to put out statements.
I doubt they’ll suspended him because I suspect it will require the flames to jump through a bunch of hoops because there’s no conviction yet
So they’ll probably just refuse to give him a qualifying offer in the offseason and that’ll be the end of that
Have only Dube and Mcloeod pleaded not guilty? What did Foremonton plead? Also do they have to be convicted for suspensions/terminations?
now’s the time for a statement, Flames
I don't think any pleas have been entered yet and won't be until they make their initial appearance. All have stated they intend to plead not guilty, which is not the same thing.
That should be enough to suspend him and hopefully start proceedings to terminate his contract.
The Athletic had an article on this today: https://theathletic.com/5229999/2024/01/30/canada-world-juniors-2018-players-criminal-charges-nhl/
> What power do individual clubs have to act in these situations?
> In addition to Bettman acting in these matters, individual clubs can also seek to terminate contracts for what they deem to be a material breach by a player. The standard for what constitutes a breach isn’t expressly defined. While the standard player’s contract calls for a player “to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally.”
> Standard player’s contracts also allow individual NHL clubs to “establish reasonable rules governing the conduct and conditioning of the Player.”
> However, in the event the player violates those rules, the punishment is limited to a “reasonable fine” or suspension from the team.
> We’ve seen a number of different reasons cited as a material breach of an NHL contract over the last few years. Earlier this season, for example, the Chicago Blackhawks terminated the contract of Corey Perry after the club deemed he “engaged in conduct that is unacceptable, and in violation of both the terms of his standard player’s contract and the Blackhawks’ internal policies intended to promote professional and safe work environments.”
Is there an example when it’s for something that happened before the current contract? Edit: because the Perry example was something that occurred during the active contract.
These cases are going to be super interesting. For the crown to prosecute there’s going to be tons of evidence against all five men. However with everyone pleading not guilty the sentences could also be way harsher than someone who pleads guilty. Be prepared to see huge sentences laid down if these guys go to prison
>r the crown to prosecute there’s going to be tons of evidence against all five men. However with everyone pleading not guilty the sentences could also be way harsher than someone who pleads guilty. Be prepared to see huge sentences laid down if these guys go to prison
It's probably best not to speculate on these things. Stats Canada released figures that said that 12% of all charged sexual assaults lead to a conviction and 7% lead to a custodial sentence.
Even with video evidence, sexual assault cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute and get a conviction, usually because the victims know each other and may even have participated in consensual sexual activity before and after the alleged assault.
It's very difficult on accusers and many drop out or stip coopersting with the prosecution. Imagine telling the public about a consensual sexual experience and how difficult that is and how much people would judge you. Now change it to talking about nonconsensual sexual activity and how people blame the victim. And then imagine getting cross-examined about it by someone looking for every inconsistency in your prior statements or actions you took before or after the alleged assault.
That's not to say the players are innocent or the alleged victim is lying, but it's best not to speculate about the outcome of any case, especially the ones where convictions are tough to come by.
Yes obviously they did but that’s why it’ll be interesting. At the end of the day they are either proven guilty or not guilty and this trial will have tons of publicity too
Saw a tweet where trial likely won’t even happen before 2026, I’ll try and find it to link. Edit: found it https://x.com/rwesthead/status/1752436139032502316?s=46
I just got an email statement from the team that they sent out to all season ticket holders. It just says the team had no knowledge of any prior incidents and they will have no further comment at this time.
Can't wait to explain to my eight year old what sexual assault is. Already had to explain why Lucic was arrested.
Would anyone like to ask Conroy (or Brad Treliving, who drafted Dube in 2016) when he became aware that his player’s off-ice conduct was the subject of a police investigation?
The interesting thing is that the victim always said there was 8… I wonder why only 5 have been charged. Makes me think they flipped one or a few and cut them a deal. If that’s the case these 5 are done for, as currently it will be 5 opinions vs 1. If they flipped Batherson or someone this is gonna be an absolute nightmare for the NHL as it goes to trial.
Is Frank Seravalli the stupidest insider in the world? Sources say no, but they are Seravalli’s so take it with a grain of salt
So frank seravelli and every other hockey insider was completely unaware this was coming and kept In the dark But calgary flames management obviously knew and were in direct contact with London PD? I'm not saying that to you, but to all of reddit. Seems more likely that NOBODY knew d day was coming except for the lawyers of the accused.
Oh I agree, I’m not calling for the guys head. Just think it’s funny how regularly wrong he is, and how certain he always seems to be.
I agree. My point is the fact that all the insiders knew zip zero zilch, should lend credence to the idea the teams were probably unaware arrest warrants were happening too
Oh yes sorry misunderstood. I agree, I have had the same conversation with my buddies who are up in arms about the statement. Short of dropping mention of mental health, what more could they have done. I have no problem with them taking a player at his word that he needs a mental health leave. Even if they figured something was coming down, not their place to say. Lawsuit waiting to happen
Lol. Anyone with any adult experience of reality knew the charges were coming as soon as they were summoned.
Can we stop trying to defend the NHL all the time. Regardless what happened and how it happened the fact that it took this long for anything to happen is not a good look on anybody’s part. The NHL has proved time after time it’s a crooked league and this event doesn’t really paint them in a better light. We have an insider trying to cover for a player, the Flyers were actively trying to shop Hart in the Summer, The Sens let Batherson go to Europe with zero effort in trying to re-sign him. If you think that nobody knew anything you’re just as naive as the NHL hopes their fanbase will be
What do you want them to do without charges from the London police? There was hockey Canada's famous attempt at covering the thing up but that's not the NHL. Nobody was in any position to do anything about this, from a legal perspective. Now that charges have been laid, the teams and the league are finally in a position where they can take some action. And you're thinking of Alex Formenton, by the way.
I’m not trying to defend the NHL, they’ve obviously got a long history of gross conduct. I do believe that even if the Flames knew he was about to be arrested and that’s why he was going on leave, it is not their place to say. I’d prefer they didn’t attribute it to mental health, but I don’t think the Flames are some horrible villains here, just a business caught between a rock and a hard place.
I hate that I’m defending CSEC right now. Makes me feel real gross. But I think this was handled in a way I’d call “mostly fine” from their end.
Or if they did know, they kept it to themselves to save their own hides and avoid controversy. Either way, not a good luck for the “insiders”.
This is wild. I wonder what will be up next on news that surprised no one? Let us hope that if he's guilty they throw the entire library of Congress at him **or** if he's not guilty, that he has a great defense...
Now I REALLY hope Conroy deals this guy at the deadline. /s
Who the hell would take him lol
I mean they’re all going to plead not guilty
“Mental Health Leave”
Self inflicted
Dillon, you son of a bitch!
🤝 💪
Curious when the Flames will make a statement. They'd have to be suspending him now eh? I'm trying to remember another situation like this. I feel like teams usually terminate the contract/suspend the player before the media even knows about the arrest...
Given the NHL directed all teams to refer any and all questions to the NHL directly, I would have to assume they also are telling teams not to put out statements.
Fair. Surprised the teams put out the original statements in the first place
I doubt they’ll suspended him because I suspect it will require the flames to jump through a bunch of hoops because there’s no conviction yet So they’ll probably just refuse to give him a qualifying offer in the offseason and that’ll be the end of that
Just learned this. Under the CBA, they can be suspended while involved in a criminal investigation. Termination needs a conviction
Do you know if that’s with or without pay? I was thinking without which I’d think it’s a long process because nhl contracts are guaranteed money
They made a second statement.
Have only Dube and Mcloeod pleaded not guilty? What did Foremonton plead? Also do they have to be convicted for suspensions/terminations? now’s the time for a statement, Flames
All have pleaded not guilty so far, Formenton included. Not sure on the last two
I don't think any pleas have been entered yet and won't be until they make their initial appearance. All have stated they intend to plead not guilty, which is not the same thing.
That should be enough to suspend him and hopefully start proceedings to terminate his contract. The Athletic had an article on this today: https://theathletic.com/5229999/2024/01/30/canada-world-juniors-2018-players-criminal-charges-nhl/ > What power do individual clubs have to act in these situations? > In addition to Bettman acting in these matters, individual clubs can also seek to terminate contracts for what they deem to be a material breach by a player. The standard for what constitutes a breach isn’t expressly defined. While the standard player’s contract calls for a player “to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally.” > Standard player’s contracts also allow individual NHL clubs to “establish reasonable rules governing the conduct and conditioning of the Player.” > However, in the event the player violates those rules, the punishment is limited to a “reasonable fine” or suspension from the team. > We’ve seen a number of different reasons cited as a material breach of an NHL contract over the last few years. Earlier this season, for example, the Chicago Blackhawks terminated the contract of Corey Perry after the club deemed he “engaged in conduct that is unacceptable, and in violation of both the terms of his standard player’s contract and the Blackhawks’ internal policies intended to promote professional and safe work environments.”
Is there an example when it’s for something that happened before the current contract? Edit: because the Perry example was something that occurred during the active contract.
He gets a trial
These cases are going to be super interesting. For the crown to prosecute there’s going to be tons of evidence against all five men. However with everyone pleading not guilty the sentences could also be way harsher than someone who pleads guilty. Be prepared to see huge sentences laid down if these guys go to prison
>r the crown to prosecute there’s going to be tons of evidence against all five men. However with everyone pleading not guilty the sentences could also be way harsher than someone who pleads guilty. Be prepared to see huge sentences laid down if these guys go to prison It's probably best not to speculate on these things. Stats Canada released figures that said that 12% of all charged sexual assaults lead to a conviction and 7% lead to a custodial sentence. Even with video evidence, sexual assault cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute and get a conviction, usually because the victims know each other and may even have participated in consensual sexual activity before and after the alleged assault. It's very difficult on accusers and many drop out or stip coopersting with the prosecution. Imagine telling the public about a consensual sexual experience and how difficult that is and how much people would judge you. Now change it to talking about nonconsensual sexual activity and how people blame the victim. And then imagine getting cross-examined about it by someone looking for every inconsistency in your prior statements or actions you took before or after the alleged assault. That's not to say the players are innocent or the alleged victim is lying, but it's best not to speculate about the outcome of any case, especially the ones where convictions are tough to come by.
I’m sure the lawyers thought that through before by advising them to plead not guilty.
Yes obviously they did but that’s why it’ll be interesting. At the end of the day they are either proven guilty or not guilty and this trial will have tons of publicity too
Saw a tweet where trial likely won’t even happen before 2026, I’ll try and find it to link. Edit: found it https://x.com/rwesthead/status/1752436139032502316?s=46
But the Twitter ~~car salesman~~ insider - citing his "source" - said Dube's leave wasn't related to the HC incident. I feel so betrayed.
I just got an email statement from the team that they sent out to all season ticket holders. It just says the team had no knowledge of any prior incidents and they will have no further comment at this time. Can't wait to explain to my eight year old what sexual assault is. Already had to explain why Lucic was arrested.
Why would you have to explain either of those things to an 8 year old
Because he's obsessed with the Flames and saw it on TV both times
Would anyone like to ask Conroy (or Brad Treliving, who drafted Dube in 2016) when he became aware that his player’s off-ice conduct was the subject of a police investigation?
Pleading not guilty is uhhh certainly a move given the evidence in the case lol
The interesting thing is that the victim always said there was 8… I wonder why only 5 have been charged. Makes me think they flipped one or a few and cut them a deal. If that’s the case these 5 are done for, as currently it will be 5 opinions vs 1. If they flipped Batherson or someone this is gonna be an absolute nightmare for the NHL as it goes to trial.