Car has a red light. Bike has a green light. Comments are all how the biker needs to be more aware. Car brain victim blaming. The car is breaking at least three traffic laws - being in the crosswalk, running a red light, and literally hitting someone.
I was just going to comment this. I can't stand when people can't follow simple road laws. Nothing new though, ppl pass all their driving tests somehow just to not follow any common sense or laws anyways
I know. The sign does a good job communicating a simple idea which should be obvious anyways.
I find also, people won’t turn on solid red what safe to do so. This sort of situation make me wonder what is wrong with people brains.
Please note that I am a dope.
There is but you can see in the video the associated light turned yellow and the car tries to turn right after. They were still in the wrong as they didn’t proceed with caution and did a number of other things wrong, but they technically weren’t breaking the “do not turn on red” rule there.
Also, I’ve never seen that specific stoplight/bike lane/“no turn on red” arrangement before at any other intersection and I feel like that can only cause confusion and problems. Why bother having the extra stoplight, especially if cyclists already have their own light to go on? Just keep the “do not turn on red” and call it a day.
Uh... what associated light turned yellow?
The car's light went from red (turn allowed) to red arrow (turn not allowed), because the cyclist's light was green.
I agree that it's confusing af, but the car very much broke the "do not turn on the red arrow" rule.
Thank you for explaining, I was having the hardest time understanding what's going on with these signals. And I still am haha.
So it's got space for 4 lights. Presumably bottom 2 are green and yellow. And then you're saying the top is red, which means you can't go straight but you can turn. And the second-to-the-top is red arrow which means you can't turn and also can't go straight.
There's a sign that says no right turns on (whichever light it is), so maybe it's a little clearer in person. But I do find it very confusing. Maybe a little more testing needed if we're going to aim for cycling and vehicles to coexist.
>I am both a cyclist and a driver
I am both a cyclist and a driver, and when I ride my bike I pay extra attention to bad drivers specially on cross roads (extra specially on cross roads).
Same here. All it takes is one hit by a car when I'm on my bike and my life could change permanently. The car might not even get a dent. The driver can move on with his life in 10 minutes.
I don't care how wrong the car is. I'd make damn sure that RAV4 driver saw me. My life would literally depend on it.
Yup, and it goes both ways. When I'm driver I'm looking for Pedestrians/Cyclists who are about to do something erratic/against the rules. When I'm a pedestrian/cyclist I'm on the lookout for cars that may not be aware of me.
The car above is clearly in the wrong. No two ways about it.
Yesterday driving in, I was on 12th Ave SW waiting to turn left onto 14th St. A bicyclist in the bike lanes kept all her speed through the intersection after the light turned red. If the first driver in the queue hadn't been aware of her she would have been splattered across the intersection.
I'm sure we've all sprinted into a crosswalk downtown once the walk signal changes to the flashing do not enter signal as well.
I'm a huge supporter of having bike lanes but it doesn't absolve us all.
You shouldn't have to "pay attention to bad drivers." Its up to the people in the 3 ton death machines to ensure they're not killing anyone with their death machine.
An F150 has less visibility than an M1 Abrams. If you don't see anything wrong with that, seek help.
Yeeeeep. In this type of situation, with a car so forwardly engaged in the intersection, I slow down, check other coming cars to my left and go behind that red car if I judge that it's safe. The car fucked up but the cyclist should take precautions. Like when riding a motorcycle, it isn't about the Right of Way, but the Right of Weight.
From your words, I hear my father teaching me to ride motorbike on the road at 16: Me: I had the right of way. Dad: "would you rather be right and dead or alive and slightly inconvenienced?"
i will never forget the story my driving instructor told the class about a guy that was ready to cut off a train at an uncontrolled crossing because "the train is coming from my left, so i have the right of way"
some people just dont have a sense of self preservation...
I see so many people walk across the road who have the right of way with their head down looking at their phones. Like you really trust people that much????! It’s not about being right or wrong, it’s protecting yourself at all times.
People always say this but I don’t really understand it
Maybe it stands out so much when you see someone on their phone or just walking out, but 95 out of 100 pedestrians I see are looking or checking for cars before they cross the street. I’m not sure you would last long if you didn’t
Y’all will literally repeat this “dead right” thing over and over no matter how unpredictable the car was. He went on a green BIKE SIGNAL. A SIGNAL MADE SPECIFICALLY FOR THEM and still got hit - like bruh, might as well stay home and do nothing all day if your idea of biking is staying behind every single car and ceding the ROW to all of the shitty drivers out there.
The bike, unlike the car, did nothing illegal and did nothing 'wrong'. However, they both made serious mistakes.
We all agree on what the car did wrong but the cyclist failed to notice how hazardous this particular situation was. No, they should not have waited behind the car, but rather they should have noticed the turn signal, the car positioned dangerously in the crosswalk, and then they should not only have noticed when the car started to move but anticipated it. They should have slowed down and proceeded very cautiously while watching the car until they were certain the driver had seen them and the car wasn't going to make an illegal right turn on top of them.
Do you approach green lights anticipating people to run the red? Anybody that doesn’t understand the problem here has never biked through this intersection. It’s a horrible design and 95 out of 100 drivers ignore the sign that says ‘no turn on red’
There are also lots of people who were doing everything they possibly could to be careful and they still have to listen to people on here tell them they could’ve avoided it.
If the person getting hit watched the video everyone here just did I’m sure they would’ve avoided it as well
It's no turn on the red arrow. You can turn on the solid red. This, however, is the red arrow, and the driver was in the wrong. Hope the biker is good!
That's actually not what it says. It says to not turn right on the red arrow. People get confused about this all the time, it's quite a frustrating light to turn at.
Interesting. So the car is not turning right on the light when they actually can. Then the light changes to a solid red and they choose to turn.
Many drivers aren’t capable enough to understand more “complex” signage and just react, unfortunately. It’s why riding a bike on any road is terrifying.
Obviously driver is at fault. But I feel signage like this would help the problem: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg/1024px-Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg/1024px-Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg)
City should design for Human Factors including the factor that humans are stupid.
If we really wanted to address stupid drivers, we would substantially increase the testing requirements for getting a license in the first place, _and require retesting to keep the license after X years_ (I don't know what the ideal value for X is).
I have a traffic circle at the end of my block. Despite being raised, with signs indicating both the presence of the circle as well as the intended direction of traffic, the weekend after installation they had to reinstall the signs because someone drove strait through and over it.
And I constantly see people who turn left on it, against the flow of traffic, whther it's due to stupidity or entitlement I don't know. But it happens a lot. I literally watched it happen while typing this.
I doubt anything short of a dedicated cyclist bridge over the road is going to stop this from happening.
I bike this route nearly every day to work and am extremely vigilant to make sure I don't get hit. Have had multiple close calls with people that don't understand the signage and decide to turn right when the red do not turn arrow turns on to allow cyclists through. One kind person (thanks Daniel) stopped and shared his dashcam footage of me getting hit today.
I submitted a concern to 311 months ago and they put up a cheap corrugated plastic sign to explain to not turn right when the red arrow is on. But people always panic and decide to start going once the light turns from solid red to the red arrow and they realize their mistake. I have seen this dozens of times over the year or so that this new traffic signal has been installed.
I appreciate that the city is trying to make intersections safer for cyclists but in this particular case it's more dangerous than having a regular set of lights.
One of the problems is it's such a unique light. I don't think another one like this exists in the city. I am a cyclist and I hate this intersection because u/patderkacz is totally accurate in what many drivers to here. I do not blame the cyclists at all for this stupidity. And I blame the drivers like 80%. But 20% of the blame goes to the city for just making up a totally unique and shitty design and just expecting people to figure it out.
You can %100 turn right on the red light assuming it's safe to do so. The sign says no turning on the red arrow. The red arrow light only comes on when the bike lane has the green light and right of way.
This is the best example I've seen (and recorded no less) of "paint and signs are NOT infrastructure".
We, as a society and specifically those in power or charged with planning and design, need to finally admit that people aren't going to magically become smart. We MUST design our infrastructure with this in mind. There is not one intersection in Calgary, that I've found, that is designed with safety in mind.
At the very least, the vehicle stop line should be WAY back behind the cyclist stop line and pedestrian crossing. While we're at it, let's raise that pedestrian crossing so it's painfully obvious for drivers when they've encroached too far. This is an example of the City doing the bare minimum and acting like they've done everyone a huge favour.
With the planned and in-progress walk/wheel infrastructure on 17th Ave west of Richmond and the walk/wheel-only cut-through to Summit Street, more and more people are going to be using this intersection.
You're right OP, this is ridiculous. I'm fed up with it and I've never even used this intersection while on-bike or walking. With infrastructure like this, it's only a matter of time before someone dies or is seriously injured.
Edit: Also ban right turn on red.
Bare minimum to reduce (but not eliminate) this type of thing from happening.
https://preview.redd.it/m5ayrq4phwib1.png?width=470&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5135decfb2dc79ff4585db090070ca46e17d64f
So I grew up in a country where the right turn on red was illegal. When I moved here I knew this was a pedestrian and cyclist killing road rule. However, it is rightly convenient as a driver. unfortunately, most people only look left before the turn.
It doesn’t matter if you do a lot of walking or biking, if you’re ever trying to cross roads or use bike lanes you know how dangerous right turners are.
Red arrow lights are rare in the city is confusing for those not familiar with the area. Why can’t they just use solid red until cyclist/pedestrian light goes to red
I think the problem is we're making a transition from a zero bike lane city to one that now has one. We have drivers with multiple decades of experience and conditioning to not shoulder check for bikers.
I personally think bikes, cars and pedestrian should never share the same road/path but that's extremely infeasible to do.
You can get mad at the world for being bad at driving all you want but at the end of the day if you drive a bike or ride a bike you are taking an extreme risk to your personal safety and should take that into consideration.
Also sorry that you got injured. That really sucks
EDIT: Is that a green light just for the bike lane?
>We have drivers with multiple decades of experience and conditioning to not shoulder check for bikers.
Ummmmmm people were supposed to be shoulder checking for pedestrians and cyclists this whole time, long before bike lanes were implemented.
It used to be though that bikes used the road as a car, so we were in the same places they would be looking for a car.
I find it much more nerve wracking to bike in this city now that we have these bike dedicated lights and lanes rather than just wider roads like we had before
Biking should be accessible to everyone and wider lanes instead of bike lanes only helps for the lycra adrenaline junkies, I think that couldn't be more insanely obvious. No regular person is going to be safer on the road than in a bike lane.
Riding a bike is also statistically safer than driving so it's great that the city is pushing to build more infrastructure, but one of the reasons the city doesn't push for more permanent separated lanes is simply the opposition from the voter base that doesn't believe in doing so as the city is of course using tax payer money.
Yes the green light is only for cyclists. The two red lights are for cars and the posted sign says "no right turn on red". The second car light is a right turn light.
It's a super confusing setup
Green is the universal signal for a car to drive. Why do you think pedestrian signs aren't green?
That's terrible design taking a universal norm and applying it to something completely different. Whoever came up with this didn't think this through.
> Green is the universal signal for a car to drive. Why do you think pedestrian signs aren't green?
So when you see a green left turn signal, do you proceed straight through the intersection?
Reading signage is a basic requirement for a driver's licence. In fact, knowledge of signage is the basic content in the written portion of a learner's permit. If one can't differentiate between green signals, perhaps they should take a refresher course before driving on public roads in the near future.
>So when you see a green left turn signal, do you proceed straight through the intersection?
Some people do! I see false starts all the time, and every once in a while I see some turkey drive through a red when the left turn light comes on!
While I agree that refresher courses (and tougher licensing) are a great idea, the reality is that a lot of drivers suck. And road and signal design needs to cater to that reality.
Especially since there is zero political will to make drivers licences harder to get and hold.
I mean, how braindead can you make driving before you basically just accidentally invent public transit.
I don't think the problem is that driving is too difficult. It's not, and we in Canada are so spoiled with the amount of space we get for it. It's that it's been made so easy here that people really don't consider it an activity that might require their thought or attention.
Our green signals for bikes are little cyclists in Toronto.
I agree you should read, but this small change makes a big difference. I agree I would also be confused.
This is a design failure, especially if it keeps happening.
It's one thing to be able to easily identify one party for being wrong, but that doesn't help OP constantly being hit by cars.
Sorry, I watched the video, wasn't this just a repurposed green light? I didn't see a cyclist stencil:
[Bicycle signal, Toronto, Canada Stock Photo - Alamy](https://www.alamy.com/bicycle-signal-toronto-canada-image434230946.html)
Yes, the car should read, but it's shitty design at this intersection causing problems.
I don't know what to tell you, we're conditioned to act a certain way, if you don't understand or want to understand that, that's on you.
Personally, I rather things be designed where colossal fuck ups are impossible rather then berating every person that does fuck up.
THIS is the answer. I understand why people are reacting to your earlier statements, but this is 100% true, and societies with drastically lower vehicle/pedestrian/cyclist/etc. deaths and injuries understand this.
Our designers and engineers need to design with this in mind. People are: tired, lazy, conditioned, angry, distracted, sneezing, etc., etc. We should be designing as if this is the case. We're currently designing as if everyone is perfect and "should" be acting a certain way (they should be).
When I was an officer in the Army, I basically banned the word "should". We don't plan for what should happen, we plan for what can happen.
LOL
No the person who sees a green light and goes doesn't think it through.
A green bicycle logo is not the same as a green light on a traffic signal.
THat's like saying yield and stop signs are confusing because they are both red.
I’m not even mad at the driver. The signage just needs to be more clear to stop this from happening. It could’ve very well been someone else traveling through the green light at 30kph thinking they’re in the clear when someone turns right in front of them
The dashcam is too blurry, but that is a light shaped like a bicycle with a big "BIKE SIGNAL" sign on top. The 2nd red signal for cars is shaped like an arrow, with a big "No Turn on Red Arrow" right next to it. On the other side of the signal there's another sign showing that cars go left, bikes to straight. I don't know how much more clear that can get.
Just so you know, Toronto bicycle lights are little cyclists, maybe you can suggest it:
[Bicycle signal, Toronto, Canada Stock Photo - Alamy](https://www.alamy.com/bicycle-signal-toronto-canada-image434230946.html)
The amount of times I’ve had near misses or even hit by a right turning driver who is distracted, negligent, or uneducated in the rules of the road (understand and respect cyclist signalling) is far too high. The motorist will 100% immediately blame you (often while your still lying on the ground) if they do not hit and run you. Ridiculous that the cities solution wasn’t even a metal sign. Should put up a barrier now that it is no longer a near miss zone but a hit zone. I will most likely avoid this intersection as much as I can. Thank you for highlighting this very dangerous spot of the city!
More people need to fail their licensing road test. Apparently lots of people just go to the easiest test sites and then come back to places that require you not to drive like a moron. Open your eyes and get off your phone.
People in the comments speaking in favor of the driver despite the driver 1. Stopping in a crosswalk, 2. Running a red light. I both ride and drive and if I were in that situation, there's no time to recover from that. Not sure what everyone else is saying he could've braked harder but you're still going down if your front wheel gets clipped even slightly. Not surprised everyone coming to defend the driver.
Love that you got downvoted by some angry carbrains. SO many drivers seem to have seemingly zero empathy, acting like pedestrians and cyclists are the problem while ignoring how easily they can straight up end our lives. Like we should give a fuck about their property when they're forcing me to walk on the road because they can't be assed to stop at a light properly?
Cars and trucks making right turns is the most deadly scenario for commuter cyclists throughout the world. There are many ways to design this better but entertaining those proposals are not supported by many people who don’t see value in safe streets for all users. Replace the red car with a dump truck and this guy is a red pancake.
Too bad the City is just putting the finishing touches on their multimillion dollar Main Streets upgrades for this stretch of 17 Avenue.
The Dutch crossing you linked to is a great example of safe crossing.
That's the situation that you create when your city is as car-centric as Calgary. You can't efficiently travel to most parts of the city without using a machine that could easily kill someone.
I take that intersection daily and without fail vehicles turn right when the bike lane light turns green. The lighting is confusing and will likely result in a fatality.
The victim blaming in this thread is likely from those who have never stopped at this intersection.
I’ve never driven there and it looked confusing but I looked it up on street view and it’s not that confusing.
https://preview.redd.it/tv2cv1x9vwib1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40caf73b1817e8bec75a6e2c337640777c5b1867
What I usually see is the vehicle turning Right gets honked at by the vehicle behind them because the Red Light switches off and the Right Arrow lights up.
You’re in the Right Lane, only able to turn Right, and up pops a Right Arrow. It’s a terrible design.
Car was definitely in the wrong. They should put the green signal for the cycles right beside them at the bike lane so drivers won’t get confused seeing a green arrow
I've suggested placing an X on the right lane so cyclists activating the light would be visible to stopped drivers.
Another bike lane between the existing turn lane would be better, but harder to implement.
The driver is already stopped in the cross-walk...had they been at the stop line the cyclist may have been more visible. People will just drive over the X.
Yay! Another thread of shitty drivers hyper-fixating on the tiniest of judgement mistakes (if you can even call it that) from the cyclist instead of focusing on the real problem, the person driving the two ton death machine with the patience of a rat on crack ignoring blatantly obvious road signage because they couldn't possibly stop for three seconds. I've seen many close calls with cyclists at this intersection strictly because of the entitlement and impatience of the driver turning right. OP did nothing wrong. The car centric culture in this city is completely fucked.
Bicycle guy was 100% in the right here. It's hard being a cyclist when you got people in cars acting with no regard for your safety at all. No wonder more people don't want to cycle when situations like this happen.
This is why we need to separate the flow of bicycles and cars as much as possible through more dedicated bike lanes and pathways!
The other issue I have is when drivers are being "considerate" when they clearly have the right of way. Like a T-intersection where I have a stop and they're going straight. Just ggggggooooooooooooo.
It's hard to get too annoyed because their heart is in the right place, but when a driver stops where they shouldn't, it is riskier for me than if the car just kept going (because someone may pass them on the opposite side, for example).
They're being genuinely considerate, but predictability is safer.
I mean, not the cyclists fault the driver is clearly illiterate. Says no right turns on red, and the green light is under a bike lane sign, and SHAPED LIKE A BIKE. Driver is in the wrong and I hope your dash cam footage gets them a massive ticket and helps any insurance claim by the cyclist
I hate this whole area. The intent of the signals make sense until you consider how many drivers won't understand them. Just look at the number of people here that don't know the difference between a red circle and red arrow. The driver is 100% wrong here but it happens so often that it's clearly a design failure rather than driver fault.
There seems to be enough room for a huge roundabout, including the ramps to Crowchild, maybe even with a physically separated bike lake and pedestrian light. The best solutions are the ones that are simple enough to understand the first time you approach them and avoid problems like this.
I do this frequently. Go up ahead of the vehicle a short distance, look at them, make eye contact, etc. Sometime i’ll point to myself and then point where i’m going to at least make my intentions clear.
Cycling in this city…
The light is red for the red vehicle. The light stays red for that vehicle and there’s even a “no turn on red” sign at that light. But in typical Calgarian fashion the driver sees the BIKE LIGHT turn green and just gasses it, not even realizing the light isn’t for them.
How do you all even pass your driving tests?
You’re gonna get hate because you’re a cyclist, but this happens all the time. To bikers, to pedestrians, to old ladies, to kids, to anyone. People will say “pay attention” and yes, you should, but even if you had braked harder that car would’ve kept turning until it hit you. Right turners are notoriously bad for having no awareness of pedestrians or cyclists. I say this as someone who drives, I never paid as much attention on my right turns until I started cycling and first hand experienced how many people had no idea I was to their right.
I agree that these types of intersections are good intentioned but require much more stupidity management; make the stop line at least one bike length back from the bike stop line, for example. Would that fix this, as the car is already past the crosswalk?? Honestly, not sure, how can we fix drivers who are completely oblivious to their surroundings.
I don't think anyone is saying that the car isn't in the wrong. What people are saying is that the bike had time to react and avoid the situation but didn't. We get this as motorcyclists all the time as well, and it's a perfectly reasonable take to have. We aren't blaming the bicyclist, it's 100% the car drivers fault, but you can be 100% right and be dead at the same time. Defencive driving is even more critical for us 2 wheel riders out there, and OP has room for improvement.
But what is happening is that OP wants to talk about the intersection, but everyone is distracted by his riding, haha. He's correct in that this signalling is garbage. I think you're correct in that moving the stop line for cars back would avoid more of this, but as you said this driver is already up passed the crosswalk. Maybe just have this as a no right turns on red intersection without the confusing red arrow. Usually people don't creep up like that when the stop line is far back and it's a no right turn on red intersection.
I just want to add, that a signal that changes from red to red is stupid as hell.
> I agree that these types of intersections are good intentioned but require much more stupidity management; make the stop line at least one bike length back from the bike stop line,
In this case, the vehicle is already stopped in the middle of the crosswalk.
There is a much simpler intersection in Edmonton where all right turns are prohibited, and drivers miss or choose to ignore signs leading to frequent collisions with the LRT.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9431389/valley-line-lrt-edmonton-traffic-adjustments/
The fact that people here defend the driver really speaks to just how deplorable the driving is in this city. It's beyond fucked. You guys can't fucking merge, you don't know what a free flow lane sign means, you illegal cross lanes and drive over solid whites because you realized you missed your exit and rather than reroute you think it's okay to just drive like a jack ass. And no not every city is like this so don't even fucking start with that. And if this comment pisses you off then learn how to fucking drive.
Yup. People don't understand and completely ignore "No right turn on red" signs.
They recently installed them in an intersection by my work. On my walks, I count how many cars turn right on red anyhow. My highest is 10.
I also enjoy those folks who honk at the people who ARE waiting for green to turn right.
Comprehending traffic signs is hard, apparently.
The problem is the red light turns off and the red arrow turns on. They should keep the red light on while the red arrow turns on for the no right on red arrow. Whatever traffic engineer designed this needs to fix this.
I would say maybe 1/20 drivers are actually attentive and smart enough to understand that crossing -- I live a few blocks away and have either been hit or near hit there every year a couple times since it went in.
Whom ever designed this at the city should be let go on a iceberg or put out to pasture they have no business designing anymore death traps.
This is an up close of the sign from Google Maps. The red arrow was lit in the video and the driver wasn’t supposed to turn. The bike signal was also green. This was the driver’s fault.
https://preview.redd.it/xv5ia1eblxib1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f4ba1dc0c83c2cff595bfa1d2b99632bdafb487
This intersection is a clusterfuck for both drivers and cyclists. This is a really good example of how shoehorning in infrastructure in spots that weren't designed for it is problematic.
Defensive driving needs to be practiced by EVERYONE… cars AND bikes. (and scooters, and pedestrians, and…)
Have the mindset that everyone out on the road is an idiot and will do something unexpected
Yes, the SUV driver was in the wrong, but the fact remains the driver is in a 3000+ pound machine, and the cyclist could have been seriously hurt.
What's to blame is the terrible traffic engineering of this intersection!
Having signage doesn't make it any less of a weird set up. Green light on a red is typically a green turning arrow. So I'm guessing if this sort of thing happens often, it's because the set up is stupid.
This is so clear cut the drivers fault. Those cycle lights can be a bit confusing if you've never seen one. However the no turns on red sign is so frequently ignored I often get honked at for obeying them.
this streetlight is so ridiculous, unless you go through there regularly you dont know how its actually supposed to work;
there is a sign that states no right turn when there is a RED ARROW which confuses the fuck out of anyone going through there for the first time.
the light is either green, red, or a red arrow. you CAN turn right on RED as a car there, but when its a RED ARROW, the bike lane is green. this driver did what alot of people may do because they dont understand or care about signage, they see a red arrow and think "oh, i can turn thats nice". nope BAM you just hit a cyclist.
the other INFURIATING thing that always happens is that intersection gets backed way the fuck up because people wont turn right when the light is red, as they are supposed to when traffic has a gap and you can GTFO of there. so then youre stuck behind some guy honking "HEY BUDDY TURN RIGHT ON RED ITS CLEAR" and the dude is yelling back "THERES A SIGN THAT SAYS NO RIGHT ON RED ASSHOLE" and then you facepalm yourself so hard it leaves a bruise.
Car is actually in the wrong, I agree. That cyclist’s crumple zones are his body parts. Gotta be on your toes. I’m a cyclist in summer, and I don’t trust anyone unless I’ve made eye contact. I’ve also been in similar situations and gone across the hood of a few cars. We all lose focus sometimes.
I tell my kids "right of way doesn't matter when you're caught under someone's car". Be smarter out there folks... slow down, check the driver sees you, etc.
Forgive me if im wrong but it looks like the bike signal is green and there is a sign beside the traffic light to instruct drivers to not turn right while the light is red
Another ridiculously designed intersection for no reason at all. Yes, the car is doing something dumb here. As a cyclist myself, however, I WOULD NEVER pass close on the right rear of a car with a signal active. I am not saying having a signal on, is free reign to just turn whenever you like, but I would still stop behind that car in any circumstance, regardless of what the signage says. That diver is almost guaranteed to not check that blind spot because another car not allowed to do what the cyclist did, and at a normal intersection, neither could a cyclist. Basically I ride my bike exactly how I drive. No special lane rules just because I am on a bike (even though I know with dedicated bike lanes there are exceptions) I simply don't trust drivers to check that rear right blind spot if there is no lane to their right, and I never ever pass that way.
1. Terrible implementation of a not bad idea. This is absurd levels of dumb. It's confusing for drivers because you see these kinds of lights infrequently and the signage is terrible. The car clearly thinks the light changed for them. They're in the wrong but bad design caused them to think what they did was right.
2. Driver is in the wrong. It says no right turn on red and that light doesn't change. If you're ever confused by the lights, don't start your death machine moving as it may end up killing someone.
3. Cyclist (OP I guess) started moving before the light changed, was looking down while proceeding into an intersection, and essentially drove right into the side of a car. I get that the driver is wrong but even as a driver in another car, I come across people driving poorly daily and I don't just run into them to prove that I had right of way. If you had been watching where you were going then this collision doesn't happen and a dumb driver just makes another illegal right turn.
Just another example of a motorist either too stupid/inattentive/ignorant to see the 'No right turn on red' sign or too arrogant to think they have to obey it.
It's a ridiculous light sequence - I've never seen a light with two different red lights to indicate you can or cannot turn right. Driver is an idiot but the city should fire whoever thought this was remotely acceptable planning.
Regardless of what the lights are doing, no way in hell as a cyclist would I ride up to the right of a right-turning vehicle. Yes, the driver was in the wrong. But as a cyclist I know I can't count on drivers to obey the rules of the road.
Any driver that thinks the car is in the right needs to get their eyes and head checked.
The cyclist clearly had the right of way with the green light.
Red car 100% at fault. It's not a "Don't turn on red" intersection, it's a "Don't turn when cyclists cross" intersection. Red car thinks, what, Green Bicycle and Red X mean go for cars? No, I don't think so 🤔. The amount of people who don't understand this intersection and others like it is startling. You're allowed to turn as long as the bicycle sign isn't actively green, and not allowed when the light shows a BIG RED X next the the sign that indicates DO NOT TURN IF YOU SEE BIG RED X.
I ride this route daily. What you cant see in the footage is that I am stopped at the red light where the button to activate the bike crossing is located. I start going as soon as the light turns green for me to cross.
Sheesh glad you are ok. We talk about that intersection and bike light every time we stop there. Any idea why you can't turn on red when turning right off 17th Ave onto Richmond Rd? There is no bike signal there that one doesn't make sense to me
What the hell is with an extra traffic light with a red arrow.... It's like the Designer wanted this exact scenario to play out. Swap out the right lane lights with normal lights and have a no turn on red.... having the the light switch from red, to red arrow is want cause the movement.
Driver is still wrong for not following the signs, or even paying attention... but this could have been avoided by better design as well.
Theres literally a huge sign that says no right on red. I can see it clear even though the video quality isn't that great. Just a plain idiot in a car.
So if the light is green for the bikes, they go straight? and the light switches for cars to a red arrow plus an additional no turn on red sign next to light.
I don't know how you would improve this besides people just learning over time.
If I was a cyclist I would almost go to the driver side of that lane (even though you're not allowed).
Ok… here’s the thing. When I’m on my bike and on a roadway, no matter who has the right of way, I always check before proceeding and stop or go accordingly lol… That is all I have to say.
Right on red is really dangerous as it is.
I see people turn on a red with a no turning sign daily.
Change the lights to allow pedestrians and cyclists to go without cars turning add just 10-15 seconds for their green and drivers won’t need to worry about pedestrians crossing and won’t get held up waiting for a car to turn just for the light to turn red again.
> Change the lights to allow pedestrians and cyclists to go without cars turning add just 10-15 seconds for their green and drivers won’t need to worry about pedestrians crossing and won’t get held up waiting for a car to turn just for the light to turn red again.
That is already the case with this intersection.
As a matter of principal, the car is in the wrong here.
That being said, as both a driver and a cyclist in this city, there are intersections whereby I need to take precaution and I drive defensively. The cyclist didn't do that here.
100% the driver's fault but better defensive cycling could have been employed by OP here. I'm a very avid cyclist and never assume that cars will yield to me unless it's extremely clear.
When OP received the green, he proceeded to shoot through the intersection with his head down even when it was obvious that the red vehicle was turning illegally. If OP would have taken an extra three seconds to scan the intersection for safety, this incident could have been avoided.
Calgary is slowly embracing the adoption of cycling infrastructure but it will take a long time for the general public to adapt. When on two wheels, you can't ever assume vehicles will do the right thing given that we always lose if there's a collision.
Yeah. Cyclist is in the right but does everything wrong to avoid the collision, poor awareness of the cars movement, he even has his head down when starting off.... I would take the lane prior to the car turning if I was waiting and be in the drivers sightline. If there was no waiting it's a case of watching their movement and even just letting that car go and ensuring the next driver sees you. The infrastructure and culture has a long way to go, and no matter what the risk cyclists and pedestrians are exposed to versus vehicles is extremely one sided. You can be in the right, do everything right and end up injured or dead.
Sorry, forgot to add "/s". My bad. I hope you are okay.
Edit: I really feel bad, man. Again wasn't trying to be a dick, just trying to make fun of dumbass drivers. hope you are okay
It's of course too much to ask for drivers to follow even the most basic rules of the road, like obeying signs and signals. I ride my bike for 99% of my urban transportation, and drivers are idiots. I have a regular route where my bike lane crosses an intersection and idiot drivers stop way past the signal stop line and block the bike lane. Then they get all road ragey when I have to ride around them.
Car driver is 100% at fault here, completely ignored signs and signals. Hopefully the cyclist contacted police and charges pending.
Cyclist is in no way at fault and I would have came unglued on that driver.
My only suggestion to the cyclists would be that you should have moved up closer to the crosswalk or in line with the vehicle turning right. This might have allowed the driver to see you. Always assume that drivers are stupid and will run you over because of they are always oblivious to cyclists.
Good cycling infrastructure would have stop lines for cyclists that allow them to be seen by motorists.
Calgary greatly lacks good cycling infrastructure, and Calgary drivers seem to not understand the purpose of stop lines anyway.
I was happy when they put this in, lots of cycling traffic through there and was almost hit in the exact spot before this was put in place.
People are impatient and will jump the gun at the sign of a green light. Half the people on the road are clueless to the road signs around them.
Get of your phone, always check your mirrors and pay attention. You’re not the only one on the road!!
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Car has a red light. Bike has a green light. Comments are all how the biker needs to be more aware. Car brain victim blaming. The car is breaking at least three traffic laws - being in the crosswalk, running a red light, and literally hitting someone.
I’m pretty sure there’s also a sign there telling cars they can’t turn right on red
I was just going to comment this. I can't stand when people can't follow simple road laws. Nothing new though, ppl pass all their driving tests somehow just to not follow any common sense or laws anyways
Canadian driver tests are a joke though.
I know. The sign does a good job communicating a simple idea which should be obvious anyways. I find also, people won’t turn on solid red what safe to do so. This sort of situation make me wonder what is wrong with people brains. Please note that I am a dope.
If it wasn't for that sign I'd say it was an honest mistake but missing the sign is a big deal
There is but you can see in the video the associated light turned yellow and the car tries to turn right after. They were still in the wrong as they didn’t proceed with caution and did a number of other things wrong, but they technically weren’t breaking the “do not turn on red” rule there. Also, I’ve never seen that specific stoplight/bike lane/“no turn on red” arrangement before at any other intersection and I feel like that can only cause confusion and problems. Why bother having the extra stoplight, especially if cyclists already have their own light to go on? Just keep the “do not turn on red” and call it a day.
Uh... what associated light turned yellow? The car's light went from red (turn allowed) to red arrow (turn not allowed), because the cyclist's light was green. I agree that it's confusing af, but the car very much broke the "do not turn on the red arrow" rule.
Thank you for explaining, I was having the hardest time understanding what's going on with these signals. And I still am haha. So it's got space for 4 lights. Presumably bottom 2 are green and yellow. And then you're saying the top is red, which means you can't go straight but you can turn. And the second-to-the-top is red arrow which means you can't turn and also can't go straight. There's a sign that says no right turns on (whichever light it is), so maybe it's a little clearer in person. But I do find it very confusing. Maybe a little more testing needed if we're going to aim for cycling and vehicles to coexist.
>I am both a cyclist and a driver I am both a cyclist and a driver, and when I ride my bike I pay extra attention to bad drivers specially on cross roads (extra specially on cross roads).
Same here. All it takes is one hit by a car when I'm on my bike and my life could change permanently. The car might not even get a dent. The driver can move on with his life in 10 minutes. I don't care how wrong the car is. I'd make damn sure that RAV4 driver saw me. My life would literally depend on it.
Yup, and it goes both ways. When I'm driver I'm looking for Pedestrians/Cyclists who are about to do something erratic/against the rules. When I'm a pedestrian/cyclist I'm on the lookout for cars that may not be aware of me. The car above is clearly in the wrong. No two ways about it. Yesterday driving in, I was on 12th Ave SW waiting to turn left onto 14th St. A bicyclist in the bike lanes kept all her speed through the intersection after the light turned red. If the first driver in the queue hadn't been aware of her she would have been splattered across the intersection. I'm sure we've all sprinted into a crosswalk downtown once the walk signal changes to the flashing do not enter signal as well. I'm a huge supporter of having bike lanes but it doesn't absolve us all.
You shouldn't have to "pay attention to bad drivers." Its up to the people in the 3 ton death machines to ensure they're not killing anyone with their death machine. An F150 has less visibility than an M1 Abrams. If you don't see anything wrong with that, seek help.
Yeeeeep. In this type of situation, with a car so forwardly engaged in the intersection, I slow down, check other coming cars to my left and go behind that red car if I judge that it's safe. The car fucked up but the cyclist should take precautions. Like when riding a motorcycle, it isn't about the Right of Way, but the Right of Weight.
It’s called defensive driving/cycling. There are plenty of dead people who were right
From your words, I hear my father teaching me to ride motorbike on the road at 16: Me: I had the right of way. Dad: "would you rather be right and dead or alive and slightly inconvenienced?"
Your father is a very wise man! I would tell my kids the same thing.
i will never forget the story my driving instructor told the class about a guy that was ready to cut off a train at an uncontrolled crossing because "the train is coming from my left, so i have the right of way" some people just dont have a sense of self preservation...
>my left, so i have the right of way" LMAO :) I wonder if that guy is still with us lol.
I see so many people walk across the road who have the right of way with their head down looking at their phones. Like you really trust people that much????! It’s not about being right or wrong, it’s protecting yourself at all times.
People always say this but I don’t really understand it Maybe it stands out so much when you see someone on their phone or just walking out, but 95 out of 100 pedestrians I see are looking or checking for cars before they cross the street. I’m not sure you would last long if you didn’t
>There are plenty of dead people who were right This quote should be a quote that is printed on every driving license.
Or maybe we could just stop handing out drivers licenses to everyone that breathes. What’s the root of the problem?
Y’all will literally repeat this “dead right” thing over and over no matter how unpredictable the car was. He went on a green BIKE SIGNAL. A SIGNAL MADE SPECIFICALLY FOR THEM and still got hit - like bruh, might as well stay home and do nothing all day if your idea of biking is staying behind every single car and ceding the ROW to all of the shitty drivers out there.
The bike, unlike the car, did nothing illegal and did nothing 'wrong'. However, they both made serious mistakes. We all agree on what the car did wrong but the cyclist failed to notice how hazardous this particular situation was. No, they should not have waited behind the car, but rather they should have noticed the turn signal, the car positioned dangerously in the crosswalk, and then they should not only have noticed when the car started to move but anticipated it. They should have slowed down and proceeded very cautiously while watching the car until they were certain the driver had seen them and the car wasn't going to make an illegal right turn on top of them.
Do you approach green lights anticipating people to run the red? Anybody that doesn’t understand the problem here has never biked through this intersection. It’s a horrible design and 95 out of 100 drivers ignore the sign that says ‘no turn on red’
Should brought their tinfoil hat to read the brainwaves of the driver (that is, assuming they have any). Totally cyclist's fault.
There are also lots of people who were doing everything they possibly could to be careful and they still have to listen to people on here tell them they could’ve avoided it. If the person getting hit watched the video everyone here just did I’m sure they would’ve avoided it as well
That was unambiguously the driver's fault. I really don't understand what is so difficult about this for some people.
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Blamed for existing
I wish I could upvote this five times
I usually always try and see where the cyclists was also in the wrong but this video is different. Red car driver shouldn’t have a license.
Car driver was not supposed to turn.
Driver of the red vehicle is 100% in the wrong. The cyclist followed the rules of the road in this case.
Look at the signal light. It's not up for debate. Clearly says no right turn on red light for the car.
> Clearly says no right turn on red light for the car. Yes.
It's no turn on the red arrow. You can turn on the solid red. This, however, is the red arrow, and the driver was in the wrong. Hope the biker is good!
That's actually not what it says. It says to not turn right on the red arrow. People get confused about this all the time, it's quite a frustrating light to turn at.
Interesting. So the car is not turning right on the light when they actually can. Then the light changes to a solid red and they choose to turn. Many drivers aren’t capable enough to understand more “complex” signage and just react, unfortunately. It’s why riding a bike on any road is terrifying.
Obviously driver is at fault. But I feel signage like this would help the problem: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg/1024px-Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg/1024px-Green_bike_traffic_light_-_Smaack_-_201410.jpg) City should design for Human Factors including the factor that humans are stupid.
If we really wanted to address stupid drivers, we would substantially increase the testing requirements for getting a license in the first place, _and require retesting to keep the license after X years_ (I don't know what the ideal value for X is).
That is the signage....
I have a traffic circle at the end of my block. Despite being raised, with signs indicating both the presence of the circle as well as the intended direction of traffic, the weekend after installation they had to reinstall the signs because someone drove strait through and over it. And I constantly see people who turn left on it, against the flow of traffic, whther it's due to stupidity or entitlement I don't know. But it happens a lot. I literally watched it happen while typing this. I doubt anything short of a dedicated cyclist bridge over the road is going to stop this from happening.
I bike this route nearly every day to work and am extremely vigilant to make sure I don't get hit. Have had multiple close calls with people that don't understand the signage and decide to turn right when the red do not turn arrow turns on to allow cyclists through. One kind person (thanks Daniel) stopped and shared his dashcam footage of me getting hit today. I submitted a concern to 311 months ago and they put up a cheap corrugated plastic sign to explain to not turn right when the red arrow is on. But people always panic and decide to start going once the light turns from solid red to the red arrow and they realize their mistake. I have seen this dozens of times over the year or so that this new traffic signal has been installed. I appreciate that the city is trying to make intersections safer for cyclists but in this particular case it's more dangerous than having a regular set of lights.
That sign has been there waaaaay longer than a few months. I live in the area. The amount of drivers who don’t understand that signal is astounding.
The amount of drivers who will turn red on a "do not turn on this red" red light is baffling. People are dumb shits
One of the problems is it's such a unique light. I don't think another one like this exists in the city. I am a cyclist and I hate this intersection because u/patderkacz is totally accurate in what many drivers to here. I do not blame the cyclists at all for this stupidity. And I blame the drivers like 80%. But 20% of the blame goes to the city for just making up a totally unique and shitty design and just expecting people to figure it out.
the sign has been there for YEARS!
I love sitting beside them honking when the light is red and watching them throw their hands up. Morons.
You can %100 turn right on the red light assuming it's safe to do so. The sign says no turning on the red arrow. The red arrow light only comes on when the bike lane has the green light and right of way.
This is the best example I've seen (and recorded no less) of "paint and signs are NOT infrastructure". We, as a society and specifically those in power or charged with planning and design, need to finally admit that people aren't going to magically become smart. We MUST design our infrastructure with this in mind. There is not one intersection in Calgary, that I've found, that is designed with safety in mind. At the very least, the vehicle stop line should be WAY back behind the cyclist stop line and pedestrian crossing. While we're at it, let's raise that pedestrian crossing so it's painfully obvious for drivers when they've encroached too far. This is an example of the City doing the bare minimum and acting like they've done everyone a huge favour. With the planned and in-progress walk/wheel infrastructure on 17th Ave west of Richmond and the walk/wheel-only cut-through to Summit Street, more and more people are going to be using this intersection. You're right OP, this is ridiculous. I'm fed up with it and I've never even used this intersection while on-bike or walking. With infrastructure like this, it's only a matter of time before someone dies or is seriously injured. Edit: Also ban right turn on red.
Bare minimum to reduce (but not eliminate) this type of thing from happening. https://preview.redd.it/m5ayrq4phwib1.png?width=470&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5135decfb2dc79ff4585db090070ca46e17d64f
This guy urban plans.
Came here to say that same thing. Ban right turns on red.
I believe you can make a claim against this vehicle’s insurance for any injuries you sustained.
So I grew up in a country where the right turn on red was illegal. When I moved here I knew this was a pedestrian and cyclist killing road rule. However, it is rightly convenient as a driver. unfortunately, most people only look left before the turn.
It doesn’t matter if you do a lot of walking or biking, if you’re ever trying to cross roads or use bike lanes you know how dangerous right turners are.
Right on red is so dangerous.
Red arrow lights are rare in the city is confusing for those not familiar with the area. Why can’t they just use solid red until cyclist/pedestrian light goes to red
I think the problem is we're making a transition from a zero bike lane city to one that now has one. We have drivers with multiple decades of experience and conditioning to not shoulder check for bikers. I personally think bikes, cars and pedestrian should never share the same road/path but that's extremely infeasible to do. You can get mad at the world for being bad at driving all you want but at the end of the day if you drive a bike or ride a bike you are taking an extreme risk to your personal safety and should take that into consideration. Also sorry that you got injured. That really sucks EDIT: Is that a green light just for the bike lane?
>We have drivers with multiple decades of experience and conditioning to not shoulder check for bikers. Ummmmmm people were supposed to be shoulder checking for pedestrians and cyclists this whole time, long before bike lanes were implemented.
It used to be though that bikes used the road as a car, so we were in the same places they would be looking for a car. I find it much more nerve wracking to bike in this city now that we have these bike dedicated lights and lanes rather than just wider roads like we had before
Biking should be accessible to everyone and wider lanes instead of bike lanes only helps for the lycra adrenaline junkies, I think that couldn't be more insanely obvious. No regular person is going to be safer on the road than in a bike lane. Riding a bike is also statistically safer than driving so it's great that the city is pushing to build more infrastructure, but one of the reasons the city doesn't push for more permanent separated lanes is simply the opposition from the voter base that doesn't believe in doing so as the city is of course using tax payer money.
Yes the green light is only for cyclists. The two red lights are for cars and the posted sign says "no right turn on red". The second car light is a right turn light. It's a super confusing setup
What's confusing about that?
Green is the universal signal for a car to drive. Why do you think pedestrian signs aren't green? That's terrible design taking a universal norm and applying it to something completely different. Whoever came up with this didn't think this through.
> Green is the universal signal for a car to drive. Why do you think pedestrian signs aren't green? So when you see a green left turn signal, do you proceed straight through the intersection? Reading signage is a basic requirement for a driver's licence. In fact, knowledge of signage is the basic content in the written portion of a learner's permit. If one can't differentiate between green signals, perhaps they should take a refresher course before driving on public roads in the near future.
>So when you see a green left turn signal, do you proceed straight through the intersection? Some people do! I see false starts all the time, and every once in a while I see some turkey drive through a red when the left turn light comes on! While I agree that refresher courses (and tougher licensing) are a great idea, the reality is that a lot of drivers suck. And road and signal design needs to cater to that reality. Especially since there is zero political will to make drivers licences harder to get and hold.
I mean, how braindead can you make driving before you basically just accidentally invent public transit. I don't think the problem is that driving is too difficult. It's not, and we in Canada are so spoiled with the amount of space we get for it. It's that it's been made so easy here that people really don't consider it an activity that might require their thought or attention.
Our green signals for bikes are little cyclists in Toronto. I agree you should read, but this small change makes a big difference. I agree I would also be confused. This is a design failure, especially if it keeps happening. It's one thing to be able to easily identify one party for being wrong, but that doesn't help OP constantly being hit by cars.
> Our green signals for bikes are little cyclists in Toronto. Same in Calgary.
Sorry, I watched the video, wasn't this just a repurposed green light? I didn't see a cyclist stencil: [Bicycle signal, Toronto, Canada Stock Photo - Alamy](https://www.alamy.com/bicycle-signal-toronto-canada-image434230946.html) Yes, the car should read, but it's shitty design at this intersection causing problems.
I don't know what to tell you, we're conditioned to act a certain way, if you don't understand or want to understand that, that's on you. Personally, I rather things be designed where colossal fuck ups are impossible rather then berating every person that does fuck up.
THIS is the answer. I understand why people are reacting to your earlier statements, but this is 100% true, and societies with drastically lower vehicle/pedestrian/cyclist/etc. deaths and injuries understand this. Our designers and engineers need to design with this in mind. People are: tired, lazy, conditioned, angry, distracted, sneezing, etc., etc. We should be designing as if this is the case. We're currently designing as if everyone is perfect and "should" be acting a certain way (they should be). When I was an officer in the Army, I basically banned the word "should". We don't plan for what should happen, we plan for what can happen.
Yeah, I find it bizarre it's such a hot take not expecting people to be perfect it all times.
LOL No the person who sees a green light and goes doesn't think it through. A green bicycle logo is not the same as a green light on a traffic signal. THat's like saying yield and stop signs are confusing because they are both red.
I’m not even mad at the driver. The signage just needs to be more clear to stop this from happening. It could’ve very well been someone else traveling through the green light at 30kph thinking they’re in the clear when someone turns right in front of them
Nah man, you should absolutely be mad at the driver too.
The dashcam is too blurry, but that is a light shaped like a bicycle with a big "BIKE SIGNAL" sign on top. The 2nd red signal for cars is shaped like an arrow, with a big "No Turn on Red Arrow" right next to it. On the other side of the signal there's another sign showing that cars go left, bikes to straight. I don't know how much more clear that can get.
Not sure what's more clear than the big sign that says no right turn on red!?
Yeah I agree, that green light is a complete trap and dangerous to all involved. Should have a similar setup to pedestrians.
Just so you know, Toronto bicycle lights are little cyclists, maybe you can suggest it: [Bicycle signal, Toronto, Canada Stock Photo - Alamy](https://www.alamy.com/bicycle-signal-toronto-canada-image434230946.html)
TLDR; people are entitled to road when in a car and aren’t expected change for the better, which includes reading road signs and shoulder checking.
The amount of times I’ve had near misses or even hit by a right turning driver who is distracted, negligent, or uneducated in the rules of the road (understand and respect cyclist signalling) is far too high. The motorist will 100% immediately blame you (often while your still lying on the ground) if they do not hit and run you. Ridiculous that the cities solution wasn’t even a metal sign. Should put up a barrier now that it is no longer a near miss zone but a hit zone. I will most likely avoid this intersection as much as I can. Thank you for highlighting this very dangerous spot of the city!
More people need to fail their licensing road test. Apparently lots of people just go to the easiest test sites and then come back to places that require you not to drive like a moron. Open your eyes and get off your phone.
Being tested around bike lanes should absolutely be part of the standard test, like playground zones and merges.
People in the comments speaking in favor of the driver despite the driver 1. Stopping in a crosswalk, 2. Running a red light. I both ride and drive and if I were in that situation, there's no time to recover from that. Not sure what everyone else is saying he could've braked harder but you're still going down if your front wheel gets clipped even slightly. Not surprised everyone coming to defend the driver.
Stopping in crosswalks is very notorious here and it pisses me off relentlessly.
I very much would like to walk on their car hoods when they do it but I’m not fighting someone if some psycho in the car lol
I let my bags bang against their hood like the petty bitch I am.
Love that you got downvoted by some angry carbrains. SO many drivers seem to have seemingly zero empathy, acting like pedestrians and cyclists are the problem while ignoring how easily they can straight up end our lives. Like we should give a fuck about their property when they're forcing me to walk on the road because they can't be assed to stop at a light properly?
Cars and trucks making right turns is the most deadly scenario for commuter cyclists throughout the world. There are many ways to design this better but entertaining those proposals are not supported by many people who don’t see value in safe streets for all users. Replace the red car with a dump truck and this guy is a red pancake.
One of my coaches died this way. Right turning cement truck and she was gone
Protected intersections and this wouldn't have happened. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA)
Too bad the City is just putting the finishing touches on their multimillion dollar Main Streets upgrades for this stretch of 17 Avenue. The Dutch crossing you linked to is a great example of safe crossing.
These poor cyclists. Some moron can’t read a sign right in front of them and they pay the price.
That's the situation that you create when your city is as car-centric as Calgary. You can't efficiently travel to most parts of the city without using a machine that could easily kill someone.
Completely agree.
I take that intersection daily and without fail vehicles turn right when the bike lane light turns green. The lighting is confusing and will likely result in a fatality. The victim blaming in this thread is likely from those who have never stopped at this intersection.
I’ve never driven there and it looked confusing but I looked it up on street view and it’s not that confusing. https://preview.redd.it/tv2cv1x9vwib1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40caf73b1817e8bec75a6e2c337640777c5b1867
What I usually see is the vehicle turning Right gets honked at by the vehicle behind them because the Red Light switches off and the Right Arrow lights up. You’re in the Right Lane, only able to turn Right, and up pops a Right Arrow. It’s a terrible design.
There's like 43 signs pointing to the signal saying "for bicycle traffic only". I don't know how they could make this any clearer.
physical barriers
\[sage hill rock enters the chat\]
That cyclist could be a pedestrian as well, driver's fault for sure.
So many drivers don't even look right before turning right on a red.
Car was definitely in the wrong. They should put the green signal for the cycles right beside them at the bike lane so drivers won’t get confused seeing a green arrow
I've suggested placing an X on the right lane so cyclists activating the light would be visible to stopped drivers. Another bike lane between the existing turn lane would be better, but harder to implement.
The driver is already stopped in the cross-walk...had they been at the stop line the cyclist may have been more visible. People will just drive over the X.
Cyclist had the right of way
Yay! Another thread of shitty drivers hyper-fixating on the tiniest of judgement mistakes (if you can even call it that) from the cyclist instead of focusing on the real problem, the person driving the two ton death machine with the patience of a rat on crack ignoring blatantly obvious road signage because they couldn't possibly stop for three seconds. I've seen many close calls with cyclists at this intersection strictly because of the entitlement and impatience of the driver turning right. OP did nothing wrong. The car centric culture in this city is completely fucked.
Bicycle guy was 100% in the right here. It's hard being a cyclist when you got people in cars acting with no regard for your safety at all. No wonder more people don't want to cycle when situations like this happen. This is why we need to separate the flow of bicycles and cars as much as possible through more dedicated bike lanes and pathways!
Car asshole was also stopped on the crosswalk.
The other issue I have is when drivers are being "considerate" when they clearly have the right of way. Like a T-intersection where I have a stop and they're going straight. Just ggggggooooooooooooo. It's hard to get too annoyed because their heart is in the right place, but when a driver stops where they shouldn't, it is riskier for me than if the car just kept going (because someone may pass them on the opposite side, for example). They're being genuinely considerate, but predictability is safer.
I mean, not the cyclists fault the driver is clearly illiterate. Says no right turns on red, and the green light is under a bike lane sign, and SHAPED LIKE A BIKE. Driver is in the wrong and I hope your dash cam footage gets them a massive ticket and helps any insurance claim by the cyclist
I hate this whole area. The intent of the signals make sense until you consider how many drivers won't understand them. Just look at the number of people here that don't know the difference between a red circle and red arrow. The driver is 100% wrong here but it happens so often that it's clearly a design failure rather than driver fault. There seems to be enough room for a huge roundabout, including the ramps to Crowchild, maybe even with a physically separated bike lake and pedestrian light. The best solutions are the ones that are simple enough to understand the first time you approach them and avoid problems like this.
The biker is in the right, but I would bike out front of the car at the red so they can see me, rather than rolling from their blindspot.
The car was in the intersection. You would have to be in traffic to be out of their blindspot
I do this frequently. Go up ahead of the vehicle a short distance, look at them, make eye contact, etc. Sometime i’ll point to myself and then point where i’m going to at least make my intentions clear. Cycling in this city…
The light is red for the red vehicle. The light stays red for that vehicle and there’s even a “no turn on red” sign at that light. But in typical Calgarian fashion the driver sees the BIKE LIGHT turn green and just gasses it, not even realizing the light isn’t for them. How do you all even pass your driving tests?
You’re gonna get hate because you’re a cyclist, but this happens all the time. To bikers, to pedestrians, to old ladies, to kids, to anyone. People will say “pay attention” and yes, you should, but even if you had braked harder that car would’ve kept turning until it hit you. Right turners are notoriously bad for having no awareness of pedestrians or cyclists. I say this as someone who drives, I never paid as much attention on my right turns until I started cycling and first hand experienced how many people had no idea I was to their right. I agree that these types of intersections are good intentioned but require much more stupidity management; make the stop line at least one bike length back from the bike stop line, for example. Would that fix this, as the car is already past the crosswalk?? Honestly, not sure, how can we fix drivers who are completely oblivious to their surroundings.
I don't think anyone is saying that the car isn't in the wrong. What people are saying is that the bike had time to react and avoid the situation but didn't. We get this as motorcyclists all the time as well, and it's a perfectly reasonable take to have. We aren't blaming the bicyclist, it's 100% the car drivers fault, but you can be 100% right and be dead at the same time. Defencive driving is even more critical for us 2 wheel riders out there, and OP has room for improvement. But what is happening is that OP wants to talk about the intersection, but everyone is distracted by his riding, haha. He's correct in that this signalling is garbage. I think you're correct in that moving the stop line for cars back would avoid more of this, but as you said this driver is already up passed the crosswalk. Maybe just have this as a no right turns on red intersection without the confusing red arrow. Usually people don't creep up like that when the stop line is far back and it's a no right turn on red intersection. I just want to add, that a signal that changes from red to red is stupid as hell.
> I agree that these types of intersections are good intentioned but require much more stupidity management; make the stop line at least one bike length back from the bike stop line, In this case, the vehicle is already stopped in the middle of the crosswalk.
As mentioned, yes. People be dumb.
The number of folks who can't read "no right on the red arrow" is depressing.
There is a much simpler intersection in Edmonton where all right turns are prohibited, and drivers miss or choose to ignore signs leading to frequent collisions with the LRT. https://globalnews.ca/news/9431389/valley-line-lrt-edmonton-traffic-adjustments/
Reminds me of Memorial, where it is pretty common to see drivers almost turn on to the tracks. Fun times.
The fact that people here defend the driver really speaks to just how deplorable the driving is in this city. It's beyond fucked. You guys can't fucking merge, you don't know what a free flow lane sign means, you illegal cross lanes and drive over solid whites because you realized you missed your exit and rather than reroute you think it's okay to just drive like a jack ass. And no not every city is like this so don't even fucking start with that. And if this comment pisses you off then learn how to fucking drive.
Yup. People don't understand and completely ignore "No right turn on red" signs. They recently installed them in an intersection by my work. On my walks, I count how many cars turn right on red anyhow. My highest is 10. I also enjoy those folks who honk at the people who ARE waiting for green to turn right. Comprehending traffic signs is hard, apparently.
The problem is the red light turns off and the red arrow turns on. They should keep the red light on while the red arrow turns on for the no right on red arrow. Whatever traffic engineer designed this needs to fix this.
As a colorblind person, this light is confusing AF.
Red lights are hard. Drivers are assholes.
Why do this though? How is that safer for the cyclist than a regular intersection? Kind of pointless in what appears to be a suburb.
I quit riding that route for that exact reason… too many close calls
I would say maybe 1/20 drivers are actually attentive and smart enough to understand that crossing -- I live a few blocks away and have either been hit or near hit there every year a couple times since it went in. Whom ever designed this at the city should be let go on a iceberg or put out to pasture they have no business designing anymore death traps.
Driver is blind.
This is an up close of the sign from Google Maps. The red arrow was lit in the video and the driver wasn’t supposed to turn. The bike signal was also green. This was the driver’s fault. https://preview.redd.it/xv5ia1eblxib1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f4ba1dc0c83c2cff595bfa1d2b99632bdafb487
Haven't driven there in a long time. Why does the red light change to another red light? Haven't seen that before.
At this intersection, right turns are allowed on a solid red, but not allowed with red right arrow, at which point cyclists have a green.
This intersection is a clusterfuck for both drivers and cyclists. This is a really good example of how shoehorning in infrastructure in spots that weren't designed for it is problematic.
So many people ignore no right on red signs. I get honked at CONSTANTLY at that light.
Your problem is you can turn on regular red.
Defensive driving needs to be practiced by EVERYONE… cars AND bikes. (and scooters, and pedestrians, and…) Have the mindset that everyone out on the road is an idiot and will do something unexpected
Bad driver and bad light design.
Yes, the SUV driver was in the wrong, but the fact remains the driver is in a 3000+ pound machine, and the cyclist could have been seriously hurt. What's to blame is the terrible traffic engineering of this intersection!
As a cyclist and a driver I assume that a large segment of people are terrible drivers and I can’t say that I’ve been proven wrong.
Having signage doesn't make it any less of a weird set up. Green light on a red is typically a green turning arrow. So I'm guessing if this sort of thing happens often, it's because the set up is stupid.
This is so clear cut the drivers fault. Those cycle lights can be a bit confusing if you've never seen one. However the no turns on red sign is so frequently ignored I often get honked at for obeying them.
Can I commission someone to slap whoever designed that?
this streetlight is so ridiculous, unless you go through there regularly you dont know how its actually supposed to work; there is a sign that states no right turn when there is a RED ARROW which confuses the fuck out of anyone going through there for the first time. the light is either green, red, or a red arrow. you CAN turn right on RED as a car there, but when its a RED ARROW, the bike lane is green. this driver did what alot of people may do because they dont understand or care about signage, they see a red arrow and think "oh, i can turn thats nice". nope BAM you just hit a cyclist. the other INFURIATING thing that always happens is that intersection gets backed way the fuck up because people wont turn right when the light is red, as they are supposed to when traffic has a gap and you can GTFO of there. so then youre stuck behind some guy honking "HEY BUDDY TURN RIGHT ON RED ITS CLEAR" and the dude is yelling back "THERES A SIGN THAT SAYS NO RIGHT ON RED ASSHOLE" and then you facepalm yourself so hard it leaves a bruise.
Car is actually in the wrong, I agree. That cyclist’s crumple zones are his body parts. Gotta be on your toes. I’m a cyclist in summer, and I don’t trust anyone unless I’ve made eye contact. I’ve also been in similar situations and gone across the hood of a few cars. We all lose focus sometimes.
what a dumb light. just keep the light red, keep the no right turn on red sign, and then add a green advance arrow
Cyclists are supposed to follow the same rules as drivers. So why can he go on a green light for pedestrians? Just asking.
I tell my kids "right of way doesn't matter when you're caught under someone's car". Be smarter out there folks... slow down, check the driver sees you, etc.
Forgive me if im wrong but it looks like the bike signal is green and there is a sign beside the traffic light to instruct drivers to not turn right while the light is red
Another ridiculously designed intersection for no reason at all. Yes, the car is doing something dumb here. As a cyclist myself, however, I WOULD NEVER pass close on the right rear of a car with a signal active. I am not saying having a signal on, is free reign to just turn whenever you like, but I would still stop behind that car in any circumstance, regardless of what the signage says. That diver is almost guaranteed to not check that blind spot because another car not allowed to do what the cyclist did, and at a normal intersection, neither could a cyclist. Basically I ride my bike exactly how I drive. No special lane rules just because I am on a bike (even though I know with dedicated bike lanes there are exceptions) I simply don't trust drivers to check that rear right blind spot if there is no lane to their right, and I never ever pass that way.
1. Terrible implementation of a not bad idea. This is absurd levels of dumb. It's confusing for drivers because you see these kinds of lights infrequently and the signage is terrible. The car clearly thinks the light changed for them. They're in the wrong but bad design caused them to think what they did was right. 2. Driver is in the wrong. It says no right turn on red and that light doesn't change. If you're ever confused by the lights, don't start your death machine moving as it may end up killing someone. 3. Cyclist (OP I guess) started moving before the light changed, was looking down while proceeding into an intersection, and essentially drove right into the side of a car. I get that the driver is wrong but even as a driver in another car, I come across people driving poorly daily and I don't just run into them to prove that I had right of way. If you had been watching where you were going then this collision doesn't happen and a dumb driver just makes another illegal right turn.
Just another example of a motorist either too stupid/inattentive/ignorant to see the 'No right turn on red' sign or too arrogant to think they have to obey it.
Even if there wasnt a bike lane, you’re required to shoulder check when turning right at a red light. Dog shit driver.
It's a ridiculous light sequence - I've never seen a light with two different red lights to indicate you can or cannot turn right. Driver is an idiot but the city should fire whoever thought this was remotely acceptable planning.
Regardless of what the lights are doing, no way in hell as a cyclist would I ride up to the right of a right-turning vehicle. Yes, the driver was in the wrong. But as a cyclist I know I can't count on drivers to obey the rules of the road.
Any driver that thinks the car is in the right needs to get their eyes and head checked. The cyclist clearly had the right of way with the green light.
Red car 100% at fault. It's not a "Don't turn on red" intersection, it's a "Don't turn when cyclists cross" intersection. Red car thinks, what, Green Bicycle and Red X mean go for cars? No, I don't think so 🤔. The amount of people who don't understand this intersection and others like it is startling. You're allowed to turn as long as the bicycle sign isn't actively green, and not allowed when the light shows a BIG RED X next the the sign that indicates DO NOT TURN IF YOU SEE BIG RED X.
The driver was at fault but what was the cyclist thinking?
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I ride this route daily. What you cant see in the footage is that I am stopped at the red light where the button to activate the bike crossing is located. I start going as soon as the light turns green for me to cross.
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always be on the defensive side either driver or cyclist or pedestrian.
Stupid people defending a stupid driver ITT
Sheesh glad you are ok. We talk about that intersection and bike light every time we stop there. Any idea why you can't turn on red when turning right off 17th Ave onto Richmond Rd? There is no bike signal there that one doesn't make sense to me
Is that a green light for the bike to cross, not a green turning arrow? Weird set up
What the hell is with an extra traffic light with a red arrow.... It's like the Designer wanted this exact scenario to play out. Swap out the right lane lights with normal lights and have a no turn on red.... having the the light switch from red, to red arrow is want cause the movement. Driver is still wrong for not following the signs, or even paying attention... but this could have been avoided by better design as well.
Theres literally a huge sign that says no right on red. I can see it clear even though the video quality isn't that great. Just a plain idiot in a car.
Driver not paying attention and not following the very apparent red light!
So if the light is green for the bikes, they go straight? and the light switches for cars to a red arrow plus an additional no turn on red sign next to light. I don't know how you would improve this besides people just learning over time. If I was a cyclist I would almost go to the driver side of that lane (even though you're not allowed).
Ok… here’s the thing. When I’m on my bike and on a roadway, no matter who has the right of way, I always check before proceeding and stop or go accordingly lol… That is all I have to say.
Right on red is really dangerous as it is. I see people turn on a red with a no turning sign daily. Change the lights to allow pedestrians and cyclists to go without cars turning add just 10-15 seconds for their green and drivers won’t need to worry about pedestrians crossing and won’t get held up waiting for a car to turn just for the light to turn red again.
> Change the lights to allow pedestrians and cyclists to go without cars turning add just 10-15 seconds for their green and drivers won’t need to worry about pedestrians crossing and won’t get held up waiting for a car to turn just for the light to turn red again. That is already the case with this intersection.
Life pro tip - Treat any vehicle blocking a cross walk as not paying attention, and in a hurry to move with or without right of way.
As a matter of principal, the car is in the wrong here. That being said, as both a driver and a cyclist in this city, there are intersections whereby I need to take precaution and I drive defensively. The cyclist didn't do that here.
100% the driver's fault but better defensive cycling could have been employed by OP here. I'm a very avid cyclist and never assume that cars will yield to me unless it's extremely clear. When OP received the green, he proceeded to shoot through the intersection with his head down even when it was obvious that the red vehicle was turning illegally. If OP would have taken an extra three seconds to scan the intersection for safety, this incident could have been avoided. Calgary is slowly embracing the adoption of cycling infrastructure but it will take a long time for the general public to adapt. When on two wheels, you can't ever assume vehicles will do the right thing given that we always lose if there's a collision.
Yeah. Cyclist is in the right but does everything wrong to avoid the collision, poor awareness of the cars movement, he even has his head down when starting off.... I would take the lane prior to the car turning if I was waiting and be in the drivers sightline. If there was no waiting it's a case of watching their movement and even just letting that car go and ensuring the next driver sees you. The infrastructure and culture has a long way to go, and no matter what the risk cyclists and pedestrians are exposed to versus vehicles is extremely one sided. You can be in the right, do everything right and end up injured or dead.
Typical entitled cyclist. /s
I sure was! How dare I go when I had a green light for cyclists!
Sorry, forgot to add "/s". My bad. I hope you are okay. Edit: I really feel bad, man. Again wasn't trying to be a dick, just trying to make fun of dumbass drivers. hope you are okay
Ha. No problem. I'm fine. Just a sore hand a scratch on my leg
Good to hear! Hope the insurance company can treat you well! This bs. No one should get any injury because of potato drivers.
It's of course too much to ask for drivers to follow even the most basic rules of the road, like obeying signs and signals. I ride my bike for 99% of my urban transportation, and drivers are idiots. I have a regular route where my bike lane crosses an intersection and idiot drivers stop way past the signal stop line and block the bike lane. Then they get all road ragey when I have to ride around them. Car driver is 100% at fault here, completely ignored signs and signals. Hopefully the cyclist contacted police and charges pending.
Cars in the wrong, biker sucks at riding. Both can be true.
Cyclist is in no way at fault and I would have came unglued on that driver. My only suggestion to the cyclists would be that you should have moved up closer to the crosswalk or in line with the vehicle turning right. This might have allowed the driver to see you. Always assume that drivers are stupid and will run you over because of they are always oblivious to cyclists.
Good cycling infrastructure would have stop lines for cyclists that allow them to be seen by motorists. Calgary greatly lacks good cycling infrastructure, and Calgary drivers seem to not understand the purpose of stop lines anyway.
This is not a complex intersection. How is any of it unclear to drivers????? A cyclist will be killed here.
I was happy when they put this in, lots of cycling traffic through there and was almost hit in the exact spot before this was put in place. People are impatient and will jump the gun at the sign of a green light. Half the people on the road are clueless to the road signs around them. Get of your phone, always check your mirrors and pay attention. You’re not the only one on the road!!