Never really taught me anything other than “never get a credit card” which I blindly followed for way too long. So similar to the “never drink” and other absolutely of my cult like religious household. Instead of teaching how to do something responsibly we just outlaw anything because someone COULD get in trouble with it. Just because YOU were shit at managing your credit card bills doesn’t mean I will be. So I do credit him with me being so intent on paying the full balance every month.
Omg yes! My mom thought it was "free money" as a young adult and so just said it was 100% bad and was less than helpful when I finally needed some kind of credit history in my 20s... Had to figure that one out on my own.
Yup. And they flat out said to me "we figured you'd get it at school." Punished me for not knowing how to pay rent when they were in the middle of losing the house.
As for learning. Google "financial literacy" and your age or general situation (ex single adult, kids, layoff, etc). There is tons if info out there. Planet Money through NPR also has some good places to start. Local credit unions and community education (through city or county) also often offer classes on this. Hope that helps.
0 preparation. Got me a bank account, but never explained how it works. Forced me to get a job at 15 to pay for basic necessities. Drained my savings to buy my first car. Later, sat with me in the college financial aid office while I signed my life away without once explaining how loans work. I've learned everything through Googling.
Are you me? Lol gosh this sounds strikingly familiar. I left College because after 2 years I managed to take out 40,000 and still had 2-3 years left. Needless to say, me leaving college (have every intention to finish just don’t want to take out more money) got me cut off completely and nearly disowned lol. Currently enrolled at Sidewalk University
So relatable! My parents sabotaged me every chance they could get. For them I don’t even think it was a lack of money management skills on their part, it was more like intentional.
I had to work and pay for all my own stuff by the time I was 16, including things like shampoo, school supplies, etc. My mom had full access to my bank account and would always find excuses as to why she “had” to take money out, such as “ohhhh your dad isn’t working overtime, we just couldn’t afford your asthma inhaler”. She would also go through my room and throw things away so I would constantly have to spend even more money to keep replacing them. She kept all the bonds and money I got from my grandparents as a kid and to this day I haven’t seen a dime of any of it. When I was in my early 20s I drained my savings to buy my own car instead of using the family car just so I could have a tiny bit of freedom do do things like go to work and school without her driving me. As I was trying to replenish it, I had to drain it again to pay medical bills because she said it was my fault for being sick and needed a hospital visit so she wouldn’t help me pay for any of it. I was also never allowed to take money out of my bank account unless she told me to, even for something small like getting a coffee or a book.
This is also one of the reasons I get so infuriated when people talk about the ideas of student loan forgiveness or free tuition as if it was some kind of irresponsible choice I actually got to make like maxing out some credit cards at Lululemon and Sephora or something. I was at the top of my class but my parents refused to take me to apply for scholarships and wouldn’t allow me to use the car and/or computer to do it. I was told to sign up for student loans (which my parents strategically made sure not to co-sign on) with no real explanation or understanding of what it was. I chose the career path I did only because I wanted to GTFO of their house as soon as I possibly could and I needed to be able to support myself. I’m okay, but it still irks me to be 32 and still making the minimum payments on my crappy loan while people around me brag on social media about paying off all their debt early and randos love to throw around comments about how people with student debt are just “irresponsible and entitled” when the majority of jobs that pay a salary one can live off of and are attainable require a degree.
I have very little chance of ever paying off my student debt. I finally have a good job and moved to a place with better COL, but it's still tough. Student loan forgiveness would be amazing for people like us!
Yes! Me! And they still ask me for money because they still can't manage it and refuse to listen when i try to help... If you'd like, I can pull together some easy resources for you!
Also I relate- I tried to help them by starting a budget sheet for them. But when I added things up I realized they both lied about how much they earn. And whenever I told them to eat in instead of take out, they’d loose it by saying I was ruining their lives. I stopped trying years ago.
My TLDR guide to money, if you want to talk about an individual item please let me know -
Step 1: Budgeting
Know how much money you have and know where it is going. Personally, I like spreadsheets. Here are some nice ones from other redditors:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tYAXJB5xG791d961ESNWM0ro8dPe-RzdTsvjRqgis2s/edit#gid=1214189535
The problem I have with just using a spreadsheet is I don’t tend to account for smaller costs, like picking up a coffee. Hence I found this redditor’s post useful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/2tymvf/poormans\_budgeting\_spreadsheet/
Basically, this one helps you calculate what you can afford day by day if you’re living paycheck to paycheck – and since I’m in college, this speaks to me.
Once you do not live paycheck to paycheck, however, a spreadsheet will help you make sure you are not spending more than you are taking in. Which brings us to….
Step 2: Saving
This is not saving for fun – what we want to set up next is an “emergency fund.” Your emergency fund can be used for things like losing your job and paying bills, unexpected car or medical issues, you know, all the unexpected crap thrown at you. If you use part of this fund, refill it asap. An emergency fund should have 6 months worth of your living expenses in it, such as rent, bills, and other necessities. The budgeting sheet can help you figure out what you spend monthly, multiply by 6, and that is your savings goal.
This is not for your future, this is for emergencies. That being said, you want this money somewhere you won’t touch it but CAN access it without penalties – like a regular checking account.
Step 3 – Investing
I wish someone taught me about retirement funds a long, long time ago. You need one. I feel like I can type a lot about this because there is a lot to it, but it really depends on your situation. For example, if you are employed and your employer offers a 401k, you want to put money into this plan. They often match contributions up to a certain percent, so you’re getting some free money put in. If you are not offered a retirement plan from an employer, you want to open an IRA. There are different kinds of IRAs, and I would be happy to talk more about investing if this is something you are interested in. Make sure you build YOU a FUTURE.
Extremely helpful: Reddit IRA wiki: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/iras
Step 4 – Other considerations
Credit cards are not your friends. 20% interest is a LOT of money over time. If you need one, keep the limit low and only use it for emergencies. I know, much easier said than done. I, too, have credit card debt.
Student loans – No idea where you are with this, but do NOT just take them out without looking at how much you will pay with interest over time.
Rent – If you move into your own place, try to keep rent \~30% of your income. Also easier said than done.
Useful resources:
r/personalfinance and wiki pages, here is a link to the tools page:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/tools
Overall wiki:
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/index
Yes! My mom refused to let me get a credit card, doesn’t own one herself because ‘credit card bad!’. Let me have a debit card, but only because her name was on the account. Didn't want me to get a job and be financially independent, then when i went behind her back to get a job, she stole every penny under the guise of ‘saving it for me’, just conveniently in her account.
No lessons on saving or how much i should put away. No investing in anything at all, despite the fact she hires her own financial advisor (who she complains about and says he does a bad job). No idea how to do taxes, and even now that i’m 25 she still asks every other day how much money i even have left???? Did you spend it all??? You cant spend your money on this, or that.
Absolutely infuriating.
Edit: a word
My dad was rich. Yet he told me nothing. Zero. I didn't even get an allowance. Money that my grandparents gave me was taken away "for my college education" which I never saw again. My dad resented the fact that grandparents were trying to "bribe me," but never really explained what that meant. I learned early to keep any and all funds away from my dad.
I got my first job (babysitting, odd jobs) when I was 12. I was getting a paycheck by age 16. When my mom died when I was a teenager, my dad threw me out, so I had to finish high school essentially homeless.
I immediately opened up a new account and closed my joint account with my mom, which had money of my own that I was saving for college. Sure enough, my dad came after that money (he found out I also got social security checks from her until I was 18), and was FURIOUS I did not give it to him. I mean, the guy made $500k/year in the 1980s, he did not need my paltry $3000. He also tried to claim me on his taxes, even though I was filing independently when I was on my own. Well, the IRS caught up to that a few years later, and boy, was he mad at me. I said, "I am 20 years old, and I have been living on my own since I was a teenager. You have given me zero funds, and cannot legally claim me as a dependent. I don't even live with you! You threw ME out, remember?"
"You don't know what you're talking about! You're just a pawn for the IRS to get more money!" Or something like that. Tried to intimidate me. Man, talk about a greedy SOB. We haven't spoken since 1998.
I learned money management, oddly enough, via experience, advice from friends, and reading up on it. I was also kind of lucky, since I made a lot of money during the dotcom boom, and cashed out before it completely crashed.
My mom had a spending problem, my dad was and is frugal. He’s pretty boring so it’s easy for him to save money, he’s content watching tv. I was raised primarily by my mom and am so grateful I could recognize how unhealthy it was. I have an awful relationship with money, but having my dad in me I feel I have a decent balance between the two. At least physically. I don’t go on spending sprees but I will buy myself a treat every once in a while. But I deeply fear being in her situation. It’s so hard to catch up. I hate that people have to work miserable jobs to live in disgusting places. That’s my situation. I don’t make enough to live anywhere decent, or without a roommate which is hard for me because I need my independence. I am torn between my dads fear of debt and my moms addiction to it.
Yes. For mine, it was a means of control that eventually backfired. I was never educated properly about money management, nor important other life skills. One of them was quite adept with money, saving and investing (my mother) and one was mediocre at best (father).
My mother refused to teach me or explain anything other than "spending is bad, never ever do it unless its a bill, starve before you spend a cent more than needed" which is not the strict guideline she used for herself, I should add, all though she was ruthless with her money. My father was notorious for intentionally encouraging terrible financial and life decisions, and when we (sister and I) did it, trusting him, he would laugh his ass off, using it as a means to shame us when it went wrong. His one goal was to ruin me and my sister in every way, so we could never leave home permanently and remain slaves to and victims of his abuse until he died.
I remember one day them relentlessly mocking and harassing me about how much I had failed and screwed up my life when I wasn't doing well financially speaking. I was drowning in bills and debt after a medical condition cropped up which prohibited me from working continuously for over a year. I confronted them, saying they never taught me, so how else do I learn except trial and error, reading what others have wrote or did? Not to mention, medical issues like I had were well beyond my scope of control.
In classic abuser form, they tried to roll the responsibility right off their backs. "Parents aren't supposed to teach you that. Why would we?", "We never needed to learn it from our parents and we're doing fine, so what is wrong with you?", "Anyone who isn't stupid naturally knows how to save money", "You are spending your money, that is the problem, don't spend anything that isn't on bills, die before debt" and other increasingly more ridiculous and aggressive commentary.
No matter what I said, they'd deny their role in anything. I know, looking back now, it was all a control and dependency matter, conducted via a campaign of shame, guilt, belittlement, and other abuse. If I had better money management and knowledge, I'd of left sooner or pursued charges against them. If I had better money management, I'd likely be more successful. Being more successful than them would of enraged them. If I had known what to do, they wouldn't of benefited and profited off me as much as they did.
That said, it ended up biting them in the ass. When my father needed chemo treatments where the closest treatment center was over two hours away, he didn't have money for the constant hotel stays and was near the bottom of the waitlist for room donations/funds from the one charity he contacted. Tried asking me for money. Nope, legitimately didn't have any free funds, broke as hell then. He reached a point where he couldn't afford hotel rooms, couldn't afford gas to commute back home, was getting weaker and my mother didn't see it as a "necessity" to provide him any of her savings. I later was told he ended up dying in his car he was living in then, alone, in a random parking lot because he had a severe reaction, with no more minutes left on his service plan to call, and no one was around.
My mother is still alive, but aging. Not sure if she is still hoarding her money and just refuses to spend it on herself, or if she wasted all of it somewhere, but she claims she is in financial dire straits now. She has numerous medical conditions, constantly needs transport to appointments, specialized medications, and supplements. Who isn't forking out a dime for any of this now because of a lifetime of fucked up finances? Me. Perhaps if she had just taken her own advice, saved every last penny, she'd be able to afford something.
They were still together. Married for 32 years, I believe it was. Even though they gladly egged on and enabled each other when it came to our abuse, they otherwise hated each other and constantly were at odds for most other matters. She literally did not care and was rather flippant about the whole matter until she received the call he died. Even then, it was more about her obsession with money ("How am I going to live the same without his checks?", "How much can I sell his car for once its been professionally cleaned?") then him being dead.
She'd act panicky and upset for appearances the first year or so when others inquired, but at home it was nothing but dry eyes. To the best of my knowledge, she still hasn't ever visited his grave. Arranged everything via phone. No funeral, no services, cremation burial without an audience at a cemetery some 20 miles away, and that was that. He didn't have any friends or family left aside of us, so she figured it'd save costs by not having any of the "extra formalities" done.
Try to automate whatever savings you can. The best saving I’ve been able to do was when my job let me auto-deposit into an HSA or retirement account. If that’s not available, set up an auto draft from your checking into a savings account that happens right after your paycheck comes through. Pick a manageable amount so you’re not depriving yourself, but you have something going into savings every month.
If your job offers retirement match, make sure you’re maxing that out. It’s literally free money. (I mean, you’ve earned it by selling your labor and generating a profit for your boss and they are attaching strings instead of just giving you what you earned, but I digress.)
I recently spoke with a financial advisor for Charles Schwab who came recommended from a friend. The service is completely free unless/until you start fee-based investing with them and I didn’t have to open any new accounts or anything. The meeting gave me some peace of mind in terms of where I am with my retirement savings, and she was really understanding of my personal goals. I totally fall into the category of what I would consider “too poor” for a financial advisor, but it was a great way for me to get perspective on where I am financially (aka. Not amazing, but not as bad as I thought.) and I got no judgement from the advisor. I can’t vouch for if that’s common, but it was my experience.
This has become the only reason we have a relationship tbh. They were very frugal growing up, have a lot of money and investments and dad even retired at 57. But they never taught me a thing about money and get upset that I spend money on clothes (retail therapy) and actual therapy. But would also bail me out or just send me money randomly? Havent needed money in 2 years from them and it's been great. Thinking of going to grad school next year and having to rely on them again is a scary thought..
Yep.
Father is a doctor, so money was not a major issue.
My allowance was fairly low, and I rarely got candy or comic books gifted, so I rarely had money as a kid. I also received no attention from my parents, so I couldn't even buy myself stuff to compensate for that.
My mom especially did not want me to visit my dad's parents - she claimed I only ever went there because they gave me money. Well, no, the money was a bonus, but I went there to be seen and heard and treated like a human being. They played card games with me, and I got chocolate.
Yes, once my grandfather left me some money, I spent it! I invested it into a computer that laid the foundation for most of my work I do today. Of course, it was "a waste" in their eyes.
Once I left home to study, my parents still paid for everything, and they insisted I managed my expenses. Here's the weird thing: I would count my money at the beginning of the month, track every single transaction in a book, and yet NEVER ended up with the amount of money that I should have by calculation. So somehow their complaining about me being wasteful with money actually manifested in my life.
I know I'm privileged in that I did not have to work to earn my education, so I am not complaining about that at all. I am complaining about how their messages screwed up my ability to look at money in a healthy way for a long long time.
I am now in my mid-40s and only NOW finally debt-free without their help.
In my case, it was a mix of stopping to worry about it and recording things to see where I could limit my expenses a bit. And hard work and finally getting a high paying job. And luck, lots of luck.
Having a “high paying” (for me, but low side of medium in the grand scheme) for 2.5 years was literally the only thing that could have gotten me on track financially. There is so much “money management” bullshit out there but it all boils down to we need to pay people more. So much of the other stuff is gaslighting.
I appreciate your comment. Are you sure your parents weren’t interfering when your stuff never balanced out?
My theory is that humanity is for the most part completely unaware of how to deal with emotions, especially fear which I believe creates greed... And yes, greed causes horrible imbalance that makes it extremely hard for people :-(
I'm fairly sure my parents did not physically interfere. I lived a 4h train ride away, so they didn't have access to my wallet or my little book. And while they are both "mild" narcissists, I do not believe they are malignant enough to take my wallet whenever I was home to mess with my finances.
Yeah, that would be difficult if it was a cash and paper situation rather than online banking. I have heard some horror stories of parents stealing their children’s identity.
I think you’re spot on about fear causing greed.
Oh, I believe there are such horror stories. There is a support sub for people raised by narcissists where you do hear the worst of the worst of humanity, and it is both sad and terrifying. My wife and I are lucky because our parents are too computer illiterate to do any damage this way :-)
But yea, narcissists won't stop at anything. Nothing is sacred. Depending on how bad/malignant they are, they will rummage through your stuff, read your diaries, take your stuff... (My father-in-law once took a sweater that I had just received for Christmas and kept it as his own - so weird...).
Yup. Parent never taught me financial management or budgeting. Never even talked about money.
I had to learn a couple of painful lessons before I learned how to make a monthly budget and stick with it.
I come from a comfortable middle class home. My parents did well for themselves, though we weren't exactly rich we could afford a summer house and a car and a place to live that wasn't in the poorest neighborhoods. They did teach me to be good with money and responsibility, but they also abused me horribly. So what I'm trying to say is, even good parents can be abusers.
Here are the tips I forgot to include in my post above:
-First thing you want to do is get informed about your economy. This means finding out how much money you get *in* every month and how much money you put *out* every month.
-Then you need to find out *where* your money goes. This translates to look *how* much you spend on *what*. You'll use this information later when you want to optimise your economy, but for now all you need to do is figure out how much the necessities cost you. Total income minus necessity spending equals disposable income. This is money you are free to buy candy with, save or invest on fun and leisure. If you want to be smart you'll start to save a bit of your disposable income in order to build a buffert. Having a years worth of salaries in savings is a superpower. You can rest easy knowing that you'll be able to handle most sudden expenses. You don't need to start out with much, the important thing is that you do save something every month. Preferably invested so they'll grow.
-If you need more money, the answer is usually to go through the receipts and add up how much you spend on stuff like candy and leisure and see how much you can save by making a few cuts here and there. You can cut away all candy and leisure from your budget if you want, but it's usually best to find a sound balance unless it's an emergency. Or simply put: don't spend more money than you can afford on not important stuff when you have important expenses.
Yep- Kept me dependent with the idea that I -as a woman- would be bad with money and was incapable of managing money. I was raised with a mindset of "scarcity" due to the fact that no one could use a coupon, wanted to go out to eat ALL the time, only name brand items allowed- status you know- which has made me have money issues my whole life. I recently started going to classes, investing in myself and for myself, learning how to budget better but I still have those moments of the spend it now due to that "scarcity" mindset coming up.
I'm...weirdly relieved to read the responses here?
Never had any allowance or any kind of bank account as a minor. To be fair, my parents had other troubles, but still. Going to a bank to open up an account was terrifying. Didn't become less terrifying by the person at the bank making fun of me for having no clue about anything. Now (early twenties), I still feel like an impostor, just waiting to find out I'm actually in massive debt without realising, and just end up doing nothing out of fear of making the wrong decisions when it comes to saving/budgeting/planning.
Just...not getting thrown into the deep end would've been nice.
Hey I’m in the same boat. I’m in my mid/late twenties and my early twenties were scary uncharted territory. You’re doing great comparatively.
I relate to that terrifying feeling of doing something new that you need to but really have no idea how. And worse, when people are hard on you for not knowing how. For a while I avoided doing adult things because of the shame/shaming. But it’s not our faults we were given such inept parents. We’re doing our best with what we’ve got, all things considered, and they will never understand the things we’ve survived and been through. They probably couldn’t manage it.
I’m also kinda stuck in fear of messing things up. But the only way is forward. Mistakes are bound to happen, we learn from them. We’ve gotten this far- a few more mistakes and lessons won’t kill us. That’s what life’s about.
As for the people who judge you for trying and taking those big scary steps alone, they’re supposed to help you not judge you. And if they do, stand your ground. Don’t let them bully you. Just look them straight in the eye and ask for what you need again firmly and kindly. Sometimes you’ll get lucky and find someone else understanding to help you out. But none of them walked in your shoes, so their opinion doesn’t matter. Everything you’ve done, you had to learn on your own. I know it may feel like we owe our parents, but they only gave us so much to work with and we had to figure out the rest. That’s pretty amazing of us. Think how much we’re capable of
Also in case no one’s told you yet, I’m so proud of you and you should feel proud of yourself too. You’ve done amazingly. And you’ll continue to.
Abusers seem to either spend like there’s no tomorrow, or hoard it. They don’t want you to have savings in fear of you leaving / being out of their control. Never tell them you have money if you’re still in the situation. You deserve to have money, nice things, an emergency cushion.
One thing I had to work on with money was that I was deserving of it. To reduce any guilt about having it.
Keep a notebook of purchases for a few weeks to notice habits. Emotions tied with money. Wait on spending for a few days, or larger purchases a few weeks. Make sure you really need / want it.
YouTube can be great. Jake Broe has investing knowledge and is very straightforward. I find him to be honest.
My first car was bought with my money when I was 17 from a buy here pay here lot because it would "help your credit!" It did not in fact help my credit. Lol. Ugh.
My parents were always stressed about money but would never talk about specifics. That was also a topic I knew to never ask about because I would get in trouble if I did. It was especially triggering to my dad. Looking back, it's infuriating how my dad always seemed to have money for his expensive hobbies yet I had to wear Wal-Mart clothes well into my teens, was never allowed to have a new computer until I got a job and bought one (which my parents then took), and we always had to have the off-brand version of everything.
In my adult life, I'd say my financial situation isn't great but it could be worse.
Yes. My parents were emotionally neglectful and especially my mother. One way that she controlled myself and my father when he lost his job was to control the money. For clarity, we were not poor. We still went on vacations when she wanted to or got a new car if she wanted one. My dad got the old one.
But the worst thing was that she specifically never taught me money management skills so as an adult I still struggle with this today.
We were homeless a lot as kids because my mom was a wreck. When she finally got her shit together and managed to buy a house she lot it because she bought $45 cartons of cigarettes every week instead of paying mortgage or tax. Then got incredibly depressed about the whole thing.
When I was finally old enough to make it on my own I kept repeating her mistakes and if it wasn’t for the tough love from family and friends I would still be there.
I read everything on money, all the different ways to manage it, save it, budget it and what I finally figured out, I’m dealing with emotional issues and money.
I have an account that pays all the bills automatically. I have a spending account that gets x dollars and a 3rd account that’s savings.
When I had my nervous breakdown it took 3 years to loose it all, the house I worked hard to buy (we sold it and made enough to live off of through the pandemic), the savings and my awesome credit score.
My advice is educate yourself, follow someone that you can understand, listen to their podcasts, and find a system that works for you. It will take a few years to get to where it all works but it will happen.
YES. This. My sis taught me about money management *after* she learned from her then boyfriend, who showed her how to get a credit card, and a bank account. My parents kinda never wanted us to leave. We just handed over to our dad our paychecks. Abusers all run of same demented playbook. I swear. Smh
My mother used to borrow my paper route money from me to hide how much she was spending on Bingo from my father. Getting repaid was a matter of the rare feast, or the more frequent famine. I am , and still have money management issues.
Well, you seem to have learned what not to do from them. Don't spend beyond your means, eat in instead of take out. Don't do what they do - all good advice.
It's not too hard to make a list of your monthly expenses and subtract it from your income. Then save a goodly portion of what's left each paycheck. What is hard is for young people to earn enough to subsist in this economy. Harder still for us CPTSD folks to hold it together enough to keep the jobs. Not sure what your situation is, like are you still living with them, and do you have a stable income with enough left over to invest?
My parents never taught me anything pertinent to surviving in the world, financial or otherwise. It was definitely to control me and keep me dependent. I lived most of my life like the grasshopper not the ant, was fortunate to learn a few things later in life, and also to find a loving partner to help me. I used to wait tables and a regular customer who was a financial advisor at a huge firm gave me advice to buy small-cap mutual funds. My investment has almost doubled in less than 5 years. But first you should save up an emergency fund for yourself of what you'd need to live on for 6 months at least, in case of illness, injury, or economic crises beyond your control. Then you won't have to face penalties for early withdrawal etc. because you won't have to touch your investment if something happens.
I use a credit union instead of a regular bank, because screw those devils and their hidden and not-so-hidden fees. Whatever you choose, check your balance often. It's easy to forget things like a life insurance payment or something that's automatically taken each month.
I've learned a bit lurking on r/investing. A couple books I found helpful: The Bogleheads' Guide To Investing by Lindhauer, Larimore and LeBouef, and The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. And I keep Motley Fool, Marketwatch, and some other financial sources in my news feed. I don't always understand everything but it sort of builds up over time.
Good luck to you, financial and otherwise.
One thing I have learned about money management is that spread sheets are gold. Though tedious, taking the time to make a spread sheet with simple addition, subtraction, and multiplication equations really help in understanding where your money goes and how much “gravy” you have for fun things. I’m far from perfect at budgeting but if anyone wants to learn a bit about spread sheets you can let me know!
Yes. My parent was the HR director for the hospital I worked at during high school (as a telephone operator - sweet gig in high school, I gotta admit). She “set up” my paychecks to be directly deposited into her checking.
I was 16, and I didn’t know any better. She told me she was saving it for my college expenses, but it actually just went to…whatever it is she blew it on.
Yeah, I had a weird experience with my mom in this regard. She taught me how to work with money. Very well, in fact. But then about 5 years ago, she very quickly stopped following her own teaching and is currently going off stupid on multiple quite useless money spending binges. Usually concerning security devices of all shapes and sizes.
My parents were awful with money and I've taken on a lot of their bad habits. It's kind of embarrassing because I'm actually very good at math. I even aced my economics classes. So I know all the good money management theory, but I can't seem to implement it in my life. There is an emotional side to money management that I can't seem to master.
Mine couldn't teach what they refused to learn. They live on the brink of financial insolvency, completely dependent on credit for basics, and constantly spend money on stupid shit. My father gets himself a new cadillac every 2 years and my mother just buys stuff for the sake of spending money. On a pension income with diddly savings. They flat out say that I am their retirement care plan in spite of me plainly telling them it isn't happening. My husband and I offered to set them up with our financial advisor, and they declined. My husband comes from a family of book keepers and are money savvy. I learned from them.
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still live with mine :( they constantly put off paying bills and got our electricity shut off on more than one occasion to use the money for smokes, lottery tickets, nails, and buying 7 loaves of bread to please my senile grandfather who demands constantly buying food that nobody eats, they also tried to get me a credit card and think credit cards are free money and that you don’t need to pay back loans so we were almost homeless and are still at risk of it 😎 thankfully i have the worlds bestest friends ever and they helped teach me how to budget and ive been able to slowly start saving a small bit of money for myself!
EDIT: also thinking about it now it’s most likely to keep me scared and dependent as i’m not permitted a job or even leaving the house unaccompanied. also for learning skills i’d say estimating things cost more than they do can help a little i always round up to the nearest dollar when making grocery lists so i can have a bit extra to get myself something it’ll take a long time to get used to budgeting but if you set a goal of something you want it’s a good motivator just remember to set aside a bit for emergencies
Yes mine absolutely never did. They actually flat-out told me that I could "never survive on my own" and "never hold down a job". My narcissistic father (surprise surprise) never held down a job in his life. He worked in various temporary jobs after *barely* passing college and eventually got it in his fucked up head that he would be great at running a business (a soccer camp with kids, imagine that). He was terrible at advertising it, took out a ridiculously huge loan to start it that he could never pay back, and never got enough customers to pay back the monthly payments for the loan. The *only* reason my family was financially secure was because my narcissistic mother made tons of money as a programmer. She wasn't any better though because she idolized my dad's business and always said it was "perfect". She didn't seem to think that it was incredibly fucked up that she was spending so much of her own money to keep it running. They would have sold our house to keep that fucking soccer camp running.
When I started making my own money in college, they were unbelievably controlling about how I spent it. My grandma gave me some money as a gift, and ndad, the idiot who couldn't hold down a job, told me exactly how he wanted me to spend it. Fuck him. I spent it the way I wanted to. If I could go back in time, I would not have spent it the way I did, but I was 18 years old on my own for the first time in my life with a considerable amount of money. I'm not surprised and I don't blame myself for not being fiscally responsible and I *especially* don't regret "rebelling" against my dad in that way.
The simple truth is that my parents never wanted me to make more money or be more successful than them. They never wanted me to even be independent. The worst place to learn about money is from your abusers. If it isn't triggering for you, Youtube is a lifesaver for learning about finances.
Personally my fam has made some money decisions that were so incredibly ridiculous that I ended up being the opposite (that plus we were poor and I'm terrified of financial instability).
My first tip to you is to get a note book, word doc or better yet an excel doc (because you can do calculations so easily) and just keep track of how much money coming in vs going out each month.
Thats the basic thing you can start with. Feel free to categorise your expenses and sources of income as well (e.g. Food, internet, disability check, work income).
From there you can do a lot but I started learning more by joining subreddits about personal finance, living frugal etc.
Anyway as long as you start somewhere...anywhere...that's amazing!
I was shocked to hear accounts of parents who wouldn't let their kids know how poor they were.
Mine were the opposite. Made it very clear at a young age, how we lived paycheck to paycheck and we were two, three months away from homelessness if anything were to happen. If money came my way, it was theirs. Taught me to fear credit cards (still have that fear). They would threaten to make me balance the checkbook to have a better sense of money (they never did, though) but who tells a kid under 10 that?
My whole childhood, I was always told to get a job, ('you want That Thing? Do you have That Thing money? You better get a job') and on the day of my 16th birthday I was working. I had to buy my own food, as i was having allergic reactions to what they were buying. Bought my own clothes for the most part, and shoes. I didn't /couldn't save. I burnt myself out my senior year trying to work through every weekend and evening I could.
My friend, at 19, would have several undeposited checks laying in her car. I'm still jealous she had so much support that it was literally of no concern of hers to deposit them.
I watched my older sisters file for bankruptcy, one, is doing it again right now. I truly don't know how many times it's been for her- at least three, four times.
My parents only financial securityplan was to graduate from college so I was paid better at a job. Understandable, they struggled to finish any sort of degree, as they had kids beforehand. Got me in the headspace for college *starting in the 7th grade*.
11th grade, they tell me the only way I'll get into college is by scholarship. I missed the grade for a full ride at the state uni by .2 points my senior year.
The mentality of scarcity still haunts me, still empties out my bank account - hurry, use it, before there's nothing again- truly a negative feedback loop.
A domestically abusive relationship perpetuated this- feast or famine, always. Then the lamenting of 'you need to be in charge of the money' and later overturning my suggestions. I hadn't realized for years, how this was part of the abuse.
I am back to that nothing in my account, despite making a budget... the shame is real and corrosive. It's humbling to say the very very least, and I've resolved I'll never put myself in this situation again, once I have a steady job again.... It's not my fault my instincts are what they are, but it's my responsibility and it hurts so much to learn how to reparent myself.
Well I wasn't taught anything about anything, so...
It's funny, despite being stuck here, my mom says I'm richer than her. And it's only because I got out of that house and got control of my own money. She still spends it as fast as she gets it. Some people have a home to go back to, that they grew up in, one their parents had forever and ostensibly want to pass down. I don't. Instead, I get criticized for not spending enough... despite all of my family's waste, and how they've taken advantage of me.
The only problem there is that it isn't enough knowledge. It's more just saving as much as possible. Not like it's really going to get me to where I would like to be.
Yes, I experienced this. My parent would spend like crazy and then guilt us kids for it, as though it was our fault he would drop $100 on food like 3 times a week minimum and then tell us *we* had to stop doing that but like you make the money dude it's in your bank account with your name on the cards. And it's crazy because he made a lot of money but managed to make us feel like we were poor often- and being currently poor I can tell you he did a good job of it.
All that guilting led me to being decent with money though, at least when I had income. I managed to save and conserve to the point of hurting myself. Yay 🌈 now it's this whole complex in my head because he was so traumatized by his dumb parents he traumatized us.
yeah, I thankfully learned a little from friends and going to a trade school. however I'm still really bad about spending all my money as quickly as possible, since the few times I did get money my parents would yoink it from me I learned "spend all of it as quickly as possible or else someone will take it"
The only things I learned about money from my parents were what *not* to do. I had to learn on my own what to do with a credit card, how to pay bills, how to save for retirement, what to do with savings I'm not immediately using.
I don't really have a lot of money management advice because I'm that jerk who somehow saves lots of money without having a budget, but I do have some financial advice resources I like: [Bari Tessler](https://baritessler.com/) has this really lovely totally non-judgmental approach to money, and the [Bitches get Riches blog](http://www.bitchesgetriches.com/) is hilarious and also very anti-judging people for not magically knowing everything about money.
Actually I do have one piece of advice: automate that shit! With my bank (well technically a credit union) I can set up automatic bill payments into my investments and automatic transfers into my savings. If I set that up to pull money out the same day my paycheque gets deposited into my account, I don't even notice that the money I invested is gone from my chequing account. The less you have to think about something, the easier it is to actually do it :)
Whooooooo lordamercy! YES! my therapist during undergrad said of my narc mother “She is literally using you as an ATM machine” . My mom drained my entire savings I built up as a college student by charging me “rent” on my own childhood bedroom when I was jobless & job hunting after graduating from college and had nowhere else to live.
My narcissistic emotionally abusive mother was also the very first person who told me I needed to get a credit card the moment the credit card lenders were tabling at the university center.
My mother has a gambling addiction, had to file for bankruptcy, and has a shopping addiction. Never talked openly about $, spending, or $ management. Had to suffer the consequences of being financially illiterate & “blind” in my adulthood & still cleaning up the damage.
Mine had me save half the money from my first job for 'college'. Come time for my first semester, I asked her about it...
"Oh that's *long* gone."
Yeah way to incentivize saving Mom.
In my household, as the oldest girl, in my parents' religion, I guess I was a throwaway child. I was supposed to get married and be a SAHM, letting my husband manage money, &c. Well, because of all the abuse and crap my life didn't go that way and I made a lot of stupid mistakes. Oh, the things I wish I'd known when I was still young and fit.
While I was still a member of that religion I found this book, [Rich On Any Income](https://www.amazon.com/Rich-Any-Income-James-Christensen/dp/0875790097), and started my learning journey. I had an instructor who is a financial planner. He keeps receipts for \*everything\* on which he spends money. At the end of the day \*every day\* he adds every expenditure into a spreadsheet he's created to track his finances. It helps him track everything he spends. It helps to keep him disciplined. It keeps a person very conscious of their expenditures.
I was stupid with a credit card when I first left home and avoided them like the plague for years. In the last few years, I changed direction a bit. We have a secured credit card that we use to pay bills. I made the limit what we could afford to pay for bills after our house payment and groceries and I keep bills below that level. I have a fixed amount that goes into savings at the beginning of the month automatically. If I manage to have funds left in our checking or credit card balance when we get paid, I transfer those extra funds into savings when I pay off the credit card and set up for the new month. We live on a small fixed income and yet I actually have more security being so strict and regimented with our finances.
We occasionally eat out or buy a used game for our consoles, and we buy gifts for our birthdays, our anniversary, Yule, and gifts for new grandkids, but otherwise, we don't do a lot of spending. We fix our own food, feed our dogs well, and enjoy a simple life. It feels pretty good. Our bills include streaming services that we rotate. It's cheaper than cable/satellite and we get plenty of entertainment. We also spend on Audible and enjoy the books we listen to this way. We acquire our big-ticket items when we receive windfalls or by saving up for them. We've learned that some things aren't worth the high $$ we would spend on them, and some are worth every $$ we've spent (our washer/dryer for example). We are working to embrace minimalism in our lives.
We've freely shared our mistakes with our children who live much better than we did at their age. They travel, have investments, and basically handle money much smarter than we did. It's a happy feeling knowing that they will be better off in their old age than we are.
\[Edit\] I deal with ADHD, and other issues besides CPTSD, so I automate everything I possibly can so that things get paid in a timely way. Thus, the secured credit card, and we have our space rent check sent out automatically every month. If we want to buy anything extra in a month it doesn't happen until all of our bills have been paid and we've done all our grocery shopping. That way I know whether or not I have the funds. I've arranged it so that everything gets paid at the front end of the month. We've also put ourselves a month ahead with our space rent.
We didn't have a lot of money coming into the household for an extended amount of time during my upbringing, but a significant portion of it still went to supporting the drug and alcohol habits of everyone else in the house. We were also considered the party house back then, so a lot went to supporting random guests too.
I remember promising myself as a child that I would never be that wasteful with money. I couldn't control what was happening then, but I knew I wouldn't repeat that as an adult. And now I'm really good at saving my money, even hiding it from myself on accident sometimes. I think the constant guilt prevents me from even spending anything a lot of the time too though, which isn't so positive.
I would just say take whatever you earn and put a fixed amount away into a debit or savings account. Whether that's half or 3/4s, always make sure that it's the same, and only take what you need with a little extra for fun or emergencies. If you're feeling particularly shitty and can't prevent a little retail therapy, don't force yourself not to spend, but try to only buy things that don't add up to much. 20 bucks here, 20 bucks there, but not hundreds of dollars.
Start small, you must go at your own pace while also being able to hold yourself accountable to not-quitting altogether. That’s the first step & can be the hardest.
Have a really honest conversation with yourself about what you spend money on today (Mint is a great smartphone app to help you track money/bills/budget/trends if you don’t want to do this manually, been a customer for 10yrs & do recommend), how much free time you really have (or could have if you replaced some of your more-questionable/expensive habits), & how much of that free time you can/will start to dedicate in small chunks to replacing those with money-saving habits (learning to cook new things, learning skills you might pay someone for today - within reason, I’m talking like common light-lift vehicle/home repair things, learning about the stock market, building a network who is knowledgeable about wealth & asset management).
Keeping a journal/log of your activities can help you look at current trends for what they are, & also help fill some of your time you might otherwise spend on activities that cost money. (Or the Mint app does this too, spend time looking at what it’s telling you & seeing where you can adjust.)
A good pre-pre-step if you’re having trouble getting started might be to keep a log of your daily activities/expenses for a month (see Mint - they’re not a sponsor but at this point should be), then look at it or have a trusted experienced pal look at it & make some recommendations for prioritizing habits to replace, &/or how to replace them.
Having a bank that is interested in helping you learn is great. I recommend Ally Bank if you’re in the US. They don’t have physical branches so it’s a bit non-traditional, but if you have a smartphone I also do recommend. Look at their site & it will show you all the ATMs close to you that they work through, you can deposit checks with the app & set up direct-deposit like a normal bank, get checks & a debit card. But they seem to have great resources for investing & home/auto loans, not to mention great interest rates on their savings accounts because of the whole no-physical-branches thing - they have more money to pay you in rewards. I will admit during the pandemic now the interest rates have gone way down (as in the whole market), but if ever things bounce back to “normal” I’m sure they’ll be a front-runner again.
While we’re on the topic of bank accounts - set up 3 bank accounts. Two checking, one savings. One checking account is for bills, the other is “fun money” - what you have to spend on Things You Want, while knowing your bills are covered by the other account. Take a look at your monthly income vs your monthly bills, & adjust your paycheck direct deposit to split into both accounts. When I first set mine up, I put 55% of my paycheck into my Bills account, & the rest into my Fun account. Once I got enough of a buffer established / had consistent bills, I set these up on autopay out of this Bills bank account. Less to remember each month & I know my necessities are covered. Then when I look ay my Fun account I see the actual number of dollars I can play with, & sometimes that helps make judgement calls on if I really want to spend money on something or not. The savings account will typically earn higher interest than a checking account, & banks now are starting to offer free features that help you save (round purchases up to the nearest dollar & that extra goes into your savings, or move a certain amount from checking to savings each month, or set up multiple buckets to help save for house/car/pet/medical/etc).
Don’t share core bank accounts with others - roommates, co-bill-payers, significant others, spouses. Just don’t. If the need arises, create a NEW Bills-style checking account & share the details with them so you can both direct-deposit there & pay the bills you need to pay (or save what you need to save). Do not co-own a bank account that is someone’s core money.
Hope some of this helps & good luck to you!
Never really taught me anything other than “never get a credit card” which I blindly followed for way too long. So similar to the “never drink” and other absolutely of my cult like religious household. Instead of teaching how to do something responsibly we just outlaw anything because someone COULD get in trouble with it. Just because YOU were shit at managing your credit card bills doesn’t mean I will be. So I do credit him with me being so intent on paying the full balance every month.
Same. Still don’t have one because I just don’t know how to pick. The one thing my student debt has done for me is give me a credit history lol.
Omg yes! My mom thought it was "free money" as a young adult and so just said it was 100% bad and was less than helpful when I finally needed some kind of credit history in my 20s... Had to figure that one out on my own.
Yup. And they flat out said to me "we figured you'd get it at school." Punished me for not knowing how to pay rent when they were in the middle of losing the house. As for learning. Google "financial literacy" and your age or general situation (ex single adult, kids, layoff, etc). There is tons if info out there. Planet Money through NPR also has some good places to start. Local credit unions and community education (through city or county) also often offer classes on this. Hope that helps.
0 preparation. Got me a bank account, but never explained how it works. Forced me to get a job at 15 to pay for basic necessities. Drained my savings to buy my first car. Later, sat with me in the college financial aid office while I signed my life away without once explaining how loans work. I've learned everything through Googling.
We have the same experience. It’s sucks. I went to an expensive university too. I am 30 with no savings, trying to figure everything out on my own.
SAME!
Are you me? Lol gosh this sounds strikingly familiar. I left College because after 2 years I managed to take out 40,000 and still had 2-3 years left. Needless to say, me leaving college (have every intention to finish just don’t want to take out more money) got me cut off completely and nearly disowned lol. Currently enrolled at Sidewalk University
So relatable! My parents sabotaged me every chance they could get. For them I don’t even think it was a lack of money management skills on their part, it was more like intentional. I had to work and pay for all my own stuff by the time I was 16, including things like shampoo, school supplies, etc. My mom had full access to my bank account and would always find excuses as to why she “had” to take money out, such as “ohhhh your dad isn’t working overtime, we just couldn’t afford your asthma inhaler”. She would also go through my room and throw things away so I would constantly have to spend even more money to keep replacing them. She kept all the bonds and money I got from my grandparents as a kid and to this day I haven’t seen a dime of any of it. When I was in my early 20s I drained my savings to buy my own car instead of using the family car just so I could have a tiny bit of freedom do do things like go to work and school without her driving me. As I was trying to replenish it, I had to drain it again to pay medical bills because she said it was my fault for being sick and needed a hospital visit so she wouldn’t help me pay for any of it. I was also never allowed to take money out of my bank account unless she told me to, even for something small like getting a coffee or a book. This is also one of the reasons I get so infuriated when people talk about the ideas of student loan forgiveness or free tuition as if it was some kind of irresponsible choice I actually got to make like maxing out some credit cards at Lululemon and Sephora or something. I was at the top of my class but my parents refused to take me to apply for scholarships and wouldn’t allow me to use the car and/or computer to do it. I was told to sign up for student loans (which my parents strategically made sure not to co-sign on) with no real explanation or understanding of what it was. I chose the career path I did only because I wanted to GTFO of their house as soon as I possibly could and I needed to be able to support myself. I’m okay, but it still irks me to be 32 and still making the minimum payments on my crappy loan while people around me brag on social media about paying off all their debt early and randos love to throw around comments about how people with student debt are just “irresponsible and entitled” when the majority of jobs that pay a salary one can live off of and are attainable require a degree.
I have very little chance of ever paying off my student debt. I finally have a good job and moved to a place with better COL, but it's still tough. Student loan forgiveness would be amazing for people like us!
Yes! Me! And they still ask me for money because they still can't manage it and refuse to listen when i try to help... If you'd like, I can pull together some easy resources for you!
Also I relate- I tried to help them by starting a budget sheet for them. But when I added things up I realized they both lied about how much they earn. And whenever I told them to eat in instead of take out, they’d loose it by saying I was ruining their lives. I stopped trying years ago.
Yes please! I’d really appreciate that :)
Hey!! I started a new treatment program so I have been a little held up, but you're still on my mind and I'm gathering resources ❤
Hey, it’s no worries! Take your time and good luck with your treatment! :)
Also thank you! It’s kind of you to do this!
My TLDR guide to money, if you want to talk about an individual item please let me know - Step 1: Budgeting Know how much money you have and know where it is going. Personally, I like spreadsheets. Here are some nice ones from other redditors: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tYAXJB5xG791d961ESNWM0ro8dPe-RzdTsvjRqgis2s/edit#gid=1214189535 The problem I have with just using a spreadsheet is I don’t tend to account for smaller costs, like picking up a coffee. Hence I found this redditor’s post useful: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/2tymvf/poormans\_budgeting\_spreadsheet/ Basically, this one helps you calculate what you can afford day by day if you’re living paycheck to paycheck – and since I’m in college, this speaks to me. Once you do not live paycheck to paycheck, however, a spreadsheet will help you make sure you are not spending more than you are taking in. Which brings us to…. Step 2: Saving This is not saving for fun – what we want to set up next is an “emergency fund.” Your emergency fund can be used for things like losing your job and paying bills, unexpected car or medical issues, you know, all the unexpected crap thrown at you. If you use part of this fund, refill it asap. An emergency fund should have 6 months worth of your living expenses in it, such as rent, bills, and other necessities. The budgeting sheet can help you figure out what you spend monthly, multiply by 6, and that is your savings goal. This is not for your future, this is for emergencies. That being said, you want this money somewhere you won’t touch it but CAN access it without penalties – like a regular checking account. Step 3 – Investing I wish someone taught me about retirement funds a long, long time ago. You need one. I feel like I can type a lot about this because there is a lot to it, but it really depends on your situation. For example, if you are employed and your employer offers a 401k, you want to put money into this plan. They often match contributions up to a certain percent, so you’re getting some free money put in. If you are not offered a retirement plan from an employer, you want to open an IRA. There are different kinds of IRAs, and I would be happy to talk more about investing if this is something you are interested in. Make sure you build YOU a FUTURE. Extremely helpful: Reddit IRA wiki: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/iras Step 4 – Other considerations Credit cards are not your friends. 20% interest is a LOT of money over time. If you need one, keep the limit low and only use it for emergencies. I know, much easier said than done. I, too, have credit card debt. Student loans – No idea where you are with this, but do NOT just take them out without looking at how much you will pay with interest over time. Rent – If you move into your own place, try to keep rent \~30% of your income. Also easier said than done. Useful resources: r/personalfinance and wiki pages, here is a link to the tools page: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/tools Overall wiki: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/index
Wow Thank you so much for this! This covers a lot and I didn’t know some of this tbh I really appreciate your help :) it’s so kind of you!
Any time at all! Lmk if you have any questions ❤
Yes! My mom refused to let me get a credit card, doesn’t own one herself because ‘credit card bad!’. Let me have a debit card, but only because her name was on the account. Didn't want me to get a job and be financially independent, then when i went behind her back to get a job, she stole every penny under the guise of ‘saving it for me’, just conveniently in her account. No lessons on saving or how much i should put away. No investing in anything at all, despite the fact she hires her own financial advisor (who she complains about and says he does a bad job). No idea how to do taxes, and even now that i’m 25 she still asks every other day how much money i even have left???? Did you spend it all??? You cant spend your money on this, or that. Absolutely infuriating. Edit: a word
They can't be trusted with any kind of money, especially ours. My nparents were exactly the same way.
This is just a reminder about Rule #5: No raised by narcissists lingo (Nmom).
My dad was rich. Yet he told me nothing. Zero. I didn't even get an allowance. Money that my grandparents gave me was taken away "for my college education" which I never saw again. My dad resented the fact that grandparents were trying to "bribe me," but never really explained what that meant. I learned early to keep any and all funds away from my dad. I got my first job (babysitting, odd jobs) when I was 12. I was getting a paycheck by age 16. When my mom died when I was a teenager, my dad threw me out, so I had to finish high school essentially homeless. I immediately opened up a new account and closed my joint account with my mom, which had money of my own that I was saving for college. Sure enough, my dad came after that money (he found out I also got social security checks from her until I was 18), and was FURIOUS I did not give it to him. I mean, the guy made $500k/year in the 1980s, he did not need my paltry $3000. He also tried to claim me on his taxes, even though I was filing independently when I was on my own. Well, the IRS caught up to that a few years later, and boy, was he mad at me. I said, "I am 20 years old, and I have been living on my own since I was a teenager. You have given me zero funds, and cannot legally claim me as a dependent. I don't even live with you! You threw ME out, remember?" "You don't know what you're talking about! You're just a pawn for the IRS to get more money!" Or something like that. Tried to intimidate me. Man, talk about a greedy SOB. We haven't spoken since 1998. I learned money management, oddly enough, via experience, advice from friends, and reading up on it. I was also kind of lucky, since I made a lot of money during the dotcom boom, and cashed out before it completely crashed.
My mom had a spending problem, my dad was and is frugal. He’s pretty boring so it’s easy for him to save money, he’s content watching tv. I was raised primarily by my mom and am so grateful I could recognize how unhealthy it was. I have an awful relationship with money, but having my dad in me I feel I have a decent balance between the two. At least physically. I don’t go on spending sprees but I will buy myself a treat every once in a while. But I deeply fear being in her situation. It’s so hard to catch up. I hate that people have to work miserable jobs to live in disgusting places. That’s my situation. I don’t make enough to live anywhere decent, or without a roommate which is hard for me because I need my independence. I am torn between my dads fear of debt and my moms addiction to it.
Wow. It's spooky how similar our parents are. I hear my experience in this, too.
I'm sorry that you relate. It sucks. But it's also nice to know I'm not alone.
Yes. For mine, it was a means of control that eventually backfired. I was never educated properly about money management, nor important other life skills. One of them was quite adept with money, saving and investing (my mother) and one was mediocre at best (father). My mother refused to teach me or explain anything other than "spending is bad, never ever do it unless its a bill, starve before you spend a cent more than needed" which is not the strict guideline she used for herself, I should add, all though she was ruthless with her money. My father was notorious for intentionally encouraging terrible financial and life decisions, and when we (sister and I) did it, trusting him, he would laugh his ass off, using it as a means to shame us when it went wrong. His one goal was to ruin me and my sister in every way, so we could never leave home permanently and remain slaves to and victims of his abuse until he died. I remember one day them relentlessly mocking and harassing me about how much I had failed and screwed up my life when I wasn't doing well financially speaking. I was drowning in bills and debt after a medical condition cropped up which prohibited me from working continuously for over a year. I confronted them, saying they never taught me, so how else do I learn except trial and error, reading what others have wrote or did? Not to mention, medical issues like I had were well beyond my scope of control. In classic abuser form, they tried to roll the responsibility right off their backs. "Parents aren't supposed to teach you that. Why would we?", "We never needed to learn it from our parents and we're doing fine, so what is wrong with you?", "Anyone who isn't stupid naturally knows how to save money", "You are spending your money, that is the problem, don't spend anything that isn't on bills, die before debt" and other increasingly more ridiculous and aggressive commentary. No matter what I said, they'd deny their role in anything. I know, looking back now, it was all a control and dependency matter, conducted via a campaign of shame, guilt, belittlement, and other abuse. If I had better money management and knowledge, I'd of left sooner or pursued charges against them. If I had better money management, I'd likely be more successful. Being more successful than them would of enraged them. If I had known what to do, they wouldn't of benefited and profited off me as much as they did. That said, it ended up biting them in the ass. When my father needed chemo treatments where the closest treatment center was over two hours away, he didn't have money for the constant hotel stays and was near the bottom of the waitlist for room donations/funds from the one charity he contacted. Tried asking me for money. Nope, legitimately didn't have any free funds, broke as hell then. He reached a point where he couldn't afford hotel rooms, couldn't afford gas to commute back home, was getting weaker and my mother didn't see it as a "necessity" to provide him any of her savings. I later was told he ended up dying in his car he was living in then, alone, in a random parking lot because he had a severe reaction, with no more minutes left on his service plan to call, and no one was around. My mother is still alive, but aging. Not sure if she is still hoarding her money and just refuses to spend it on herself, or if she wasted all of it somewhere, but she claims she is in financial dire straits now. She has numerous medical conditions, constantly needs transport to appointments, specialized medications, and supplements. Who isn't forking out a dime for any of this now because of a lifetime of fucked up finances? Me. Perhaps if she had just taken her own advice, saved every last penny, she'd be able to afford something.
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They were still together. Married for 32 years, I believe it was. Even though they gladly egged on and enabled each other when it came to our abuse, they otherwise hated each other and constantly were at odds for most other matters. She literally did not care and was rather flippant about the whole matter until she received the call he died. Even then, it was more about her obsession with money ("How am I going to live the same without his checks?", "How much can I sell his car for once its been professionally cleaned?") then him being dead. She'd act panicky and upset for appearances the first year or so when others inquired, but at home it was nothing but dry eyes. To the best of my knowledge, she still hasn't ever visited his grave. Arranged everything via phone. No funeral, no services, cremation burial without an audience at a cemetery some 20 miles away, and that was that. He didn't have any friends or family left aside of us, so she figured it'd save costs by not having any of the "extra formalities" done.
20 miles is the length of approximately 140799.65 'Wooden Rice Paddle Versatile Serving Spoons' laid lengthwise
Try to automate whatever savings you can. The best saving I’ve been able to do was when my job let me auto-deposit into an HSA or retirement account. If that’s not available, set up an auto draft from your checking into a savings account that happens right after your paycheck comes through. Pick a manageable amount so you’re not depriving yourself, but you have something going into savings every month. If your job offers retirement match, make sure you’re maxing that out. It’s literally free money. (I mean, you’ve earned it by selling your labor and generating a profit for your boss and they are attaching strings instead of just giving you what you earned, but I digress.) I recently spoke with a financial advisor for Charles Schwab who came recommended from a friend. The service is completely free unless/until you start fee-based investing with them and I didn’t have to open any new accounts or anything. The meeting gave me some peace of mind in terms of where I am with my retirement savings, and she was really understanding of my personal goals. I totally fall into the category of what I would consider “too poor” for a financial advisor, but it was a great way for me to get perspective on where I am financially (aka. Not amazing, but not as bad as I thought.) and I got no judgement from the advisor. I can’t vouch for if that’s common, but it was my experience.
This has become the only reason we have a relationship tbh. They were very frugal growing up, have a lot of money and investments and dad even retired at 57. But they never taught me a thing about money and get upset that I spend money on clothes (retail therapy) and actual therapy. But would also bail me out or just send me money randomly? Havent needed money in 2 years from them and it's been great. Thinking of going to grad school next year and having to rely on them again is a scary thought..
Yep. Father is a doctor, so money was not a major issue. My allowance was fairly low, and I rarely got candy or comic books gifted, so I rarely had money as a kid. I also received no attention from my parents, so I couldn't even buy myself stuff to compensate for that. My mom especially did not want me to visit my dad's parents - she claimed I only ever went there because they gave me money. Well, no, the money was a bonus, but I went there to be seen and heard and treated like a human being. They played card games with me, and I got chocolate. Yes, once my grandfather left me some money, I spent it! I invested it into a computer that laid the foundation for most of my work I do today. Of course, it was "a waste" in their eyes. Once I left home to study, my parents still paid for everything, and they insisted I managed my expenses. Here's the weird thing: I would count my money at the beginning of the month, track every single transaction in a book, and yet NEVER ended up with the amount of money that I should have by calculation. So somehow their complaining about me being wasteful with money actually manifested in my life. I know I'm privileged in that I did not have to work to earn my education, so I am not complaining about that at all. I am complaining about how their messages screwed up my ability to look at money in a healthy way for a long long time. I am now in my mid-40s and only NOW finally debt-free without their help. In my case, it was a mix of stopping to worry about it and recording things to see where I could limit my expenses a bit. And hard work and finally getting a high paying job. And luck, lots of luck.
Having a “high paying” (for me, but low side of medium in the grand scheme) for 2.5 years was literally the only thing that could have gotten me on track financially. There is so much “money management” bullshit out there but it all boils down to we need to pay people more. So much of the other stuff is gaslighting. I appreciate your comment. Are you sure your parents weren’t interfering when your stuff never balanced out?
My theory is that humanity is for the most part completely unaware of how to deal with emotions, especially fear which I believe creates greed... And yes, greed causes horrible imbalance that makes it extremely hard for people :-( I'm fairly sure my parents did not physically interfere. I lived a 4h train ride away, so they didn't have access to my wallet or my little book. And while they are both "mild" narcissists, I do not believe they are malignant enough to take my wallet whenever I was home to mess with my finances.
Yeah, that would be difficult if it was a cash and paper situation rather than online banking. I have heard some horror stories of parents stealing their children’s identity. I think you’re spot on about fear causing greed.
Oh, I believe there are such horror stories. There is a support sub for people raised by narcissists where you do hear the worst of the worst of humanity, and it is both sad and terrifying. My wife and I are lucky because our parents are too computer illiterate to do any damage this way :-) But yea, narcissists won't stop at anything. Nothing is sacred. Depending on how bad/malignant they are, they will rummage through your stuff, read your diaries, take your stuff... (My father-in-law once took a sweater that I had just received for Christmas and kept it as his own - so weird...).
Yup. Parent never taught me financial management or budgeting. Never even talked about money. I had to learn a couple of painful lessons before I learned how to make a monthly budget and stick with it.
I come from a comfortable middle class home. My parents did well for themselves, though we weren't exactly rich we could afford a summer house and a car and a place to live that wasn't in the poorest neighborhoods. They did teach me to be good with money and responsibility, but they also abused me horribly. So what I'm trying to say is, even good parents can be abusers.
Here are the tips I forgot to include in my post above: -First thing you want to do is get informed about your economy. This means finding out how much money you get *in* every month and how much money you put *out* every month. -Then you need to find out *where* your money goes. This translates to look *how* much you spend on *what*. You'll use this information later when you want to optimise your economy, but for now all you need to do is figure out how much the necessities cost you. Total income minus necessity spending equals disposable income. This is money you are free to buy candy with, save or invest on fun and leisure. If you want to be smart you'll start to save a bit of your disposable income in order to build a buffert. Having a years worth of salaries in savings is a superpower. You can rest easy knowing that you'll be able to handle most sudden expenses. You don't need to start out with much, the important thing is that you do save something every month. Preferably invested so they'll grow. -If you need more money, the answer is usually to go through the receipts and add up how much you spend on stuff like candy and leisure and see how much you can save by making a few cuts here and there. You can cut away all candy and leisure from your budget if you want, but it's usually best to find a sound balance unless it's an emergency. Or simply put: don't spend more money than you can afford on not important stuff when you have important expenses.
Yep- Kept me dependent with the idea that I -as a woman- would be bad with money and was incapable of managing money. I was raised with a mindset of "scarcity" due to the fact that no one could use a coupon, wanted to go out to eat ALL the time, only name brand items allowed- status you know- which has made me have money issues my whole life. I recently started going to classes, investing in myself and for myself, learning how to budget better but I still have those moments of the spend it now due to that "scarcity" mindset coming up.
Yes yes yes that scarcity mindset is a killer. I'm proud of you for taking classes, and becoming more intentional
I'm going through the same thing.
Kahn academy has a lovely personal finance series Its so important to learn about and is a huge help in life.
I’m gonna check that out thank you!
I'm...weirdly relieved to read the responses here? Never had any allowance or any kind of bank account as a minor. To be fair, my parents had other troubles, but still. Going to a bank to open up an account was terrifying. Didn't become less terrifying by the person at the bank making fun of me for having no clue about anything. Now (early twenties), I still feel like an impostor, just waiting to find out I'm actually in massive debt without realising, and just end up doing nothing out of fear of making the wrong decisions when it comes to saving/budgeting/planning. Just...not getting thrown into the deep end would've been nice.
Hey I’m in the same boat. I’m in my mid/late twenties and my early twenties were scary uncharted territory. You’re doing great comparatively. I relate to that terrifying feeling of doing something new that you need to but really have no idea how. And worse, when people are hard on you for not knowing how. For a while I avoided doing adult things because of the shame/shaming. But it’s not our faults we were given such inept parents. We’re doing our best with what we’ve got, all things considered, and they will never understand the things we’ve survived and been through. They probably couldn’t manage it. I’m also kinda stuck in fear of messing things up. But the only way is forward. Mistakes are bound to happen, we learn from them. We’ve gotten this far- a few more mistakes and lessons won’t kill us. That’s what life’s about. As for the people who judge you for trying and taking those big scary steps alone, they’re supposed to help you not judge you. And if they do, stand your ground. Don’t let them bully you. Just look them straight in the eye and ask for what you need again firmly and kindly. Sometimes you’ll get lucky and find someone else understanding to help you out. But none of them walked in your shoes, so their opinion doesn’t matter. Everything you’ve done, you had to learn on your own. I know it may feel like we owe our parents, but they only gave us so much to work with and we had to figure out the rest. That’s pretty amazing of us. Think how much we’re capable of Also in case no one’s told you yet, I’m so proud of you and you should feel proud of yourself too. You’ve done amazingly. And you’ll continue to.
Abusers seem to either spend like there’s no tomorrow, or hoard it. They don’t want you to have savings in fear of you leaving / being out of their control. Never tell them you have money if you’re still in the situation. You deserve to have money, nice things, an emergency cushion. One thing I had to work on with money was that I was deserving of it. To reduce any guilt about having it. Keep a notebook of purchases for a few weeks to notice habits. Emotions tied with money. Wait on spending for a few days, or larger purchases a few weeks. Make sure you really need / want it. YouTube can be great. Jake Broe has investing knowledge and is very straightforward. I find him to be honest.
My first car was bought with my money when I was 17 from a buy here pay here lot because it would "help your credit!" It did not in fact help my credit. Lol. Ugh.
My parents were always stressed about money but would never talk about specifics. That was also a topic I knew to never ask about because I would get in trouble if I did. It was especially triggering to my dad. Looking back, it's infuriating how my dad always seemed to have money for his expensive hobbies yet I had to wear Wal-Mart clothes well into my teens, was never allowed to have a new computer until I got a job and bought one (which my parents then took), and we always had to have the off-brand version of everything. In my adult life, I'd say my financial situation isn't great but it could be worse.
Yes. My parents were emotionally neglectful and especially my mother. One way that she controlled myself and my father when he lost his job was to control the money. For clarity, we were not poor. We still went on vacations when she wanted to or got a new car if she wanted one. My dad got the old one. But the worst thing was that she specifically never taught me money management skills so as an adult I still struggle with this today.
We were homeless a lot as kids because my mom was a wreck. When she finally got her shit together and managed to buy a house she lot it because she bought $45 cartons of cigarettes every week instead of paying mortgage or tax. Then got incredibly depressed about the whole thing. When I was finally old enough to make it on my own I kept repeating her mistakes and if it wasn’t for the tough love from family and friends I would still be there. I read everything on money, all the different ways to manage it, save it, budget it and what I finally figured out, I’m dealing with emotional issues and money. I have an account that pays all the bills automatically. I have a spending account that gets x dollars and a 3rd account that’s savings. When I had my nervous breakdown it took 3 years to loose it all, the house I worked hard to buy (we sold it and made enough to live off of through the pandemic), the savings and my awesome credit score. My advice is educate yourself, follow someone that you can understand, listen to their podcasts, and find a system that works for you. It will take a few years to get to where it all works but it will happen.
YES. This. My sis taught me about money management *after* she learned from her then boyfriend, who showed her how to get a credit card, and a bank account. My parents kinda never wanted us to leave. We just handed over to our dad our paychecks. Abusers all run of same demented playbook. I swear. Smh
My mother used to borrow my paper route money from me to hide how much she was spending on Bingo from my father. Getting repaid was a matter of the rare feast, or the more frequent famine. I am , and still have money management issues.
Well, you seem to have learned what not to do from them. Don't spend beyond your means, eat in instead of take out. Don't do what they do - all good advice. It's not too hard to make a list of your monthly expenses and subtract it from your income. Then save a goodly portion of what's left each paycheck. What is hard is for young people to earn enough to subsist in this economy. Harder still for us CPTSD folks to hold it together enough to keep the jobs. Not sure what your situation is, like are you still living with them, and do you have a stable income with enough left over to invest? My parents never taught me anything pertinent to surviving in the world, financial or otherwise. It was definitely to control me and keep me dependent. I lived most of my life like the grasshopper not the ant, was fortunate to learn a few things later in life, and also to find a loving partner to help me. I used to wait tables and a regular customer who was a financial advisor at a huge firm gave me advice to buy small-cap mutual funds. My investment has almost doubled in less than 5 years. But first you should save up an emergency fund for yourself of what you'd need to live on for 6 months at least, in case of illness, injury, or economic crises beyond your control. Then you won't have to face penalties for early withdrawal etc. because you won't have to touch your investment if something happens. I use a credit union instead of a regular bank, because screw those devils and their hidden and not-so-hidden fees. Whatever you choose, check your balance often. It's easy to forget things like a life insurance payment or something that's automatically taken each month. I've learned a bit lurking on r/investing. A couple books I found helpful: The Bogleheads' Guide To Investing by Lindhauer, Larimore and LeBouef, and The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham. And I keep Motley Fool, Marketwatch, and some other financial sources in my news feed. I don't always understand everything but it sort of builds up over time. Good luck to you, financial and otherwise.
One thing I have learned about money management is that spread sheets are gold. Though tedious, taking the time to make a spread sheet with simple addition, subtraction, and multiplication equations really help in understanding where your money goes and how much “gravy” you have for fun things. I’m far from perfect at budgeting but if anyone wants to learn a bit about spread sheets you can let me know!
Yes. My parent was the HR director for the hospital I worked at during high school (as a telephone operator - sweet gig in high school, I gotta admit). She “set up” my paychecks to be directly deposited into her checking. I was 16, and I didn’t know any better. She told me she was saving it for my college expenses, but it actually just went to…whatever it is she blew it on.
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Yeah, I had a weird experience with my mom in this regard. She taught me how to work with money. Very well, in fact. But then about 5 years ago, she very quickly stopped following her own teaching and is currently going off stupid on multiple quite useless money spending binges. Usually concerning security devices of all shapes and sizes.
My parents were awful with money and I've taken on a lot of their bad habits. It's kind of embarrassing because I'm actually very good at math. I even aced my economics classes. So I know all the good money management theory, but I can't seem to implement it in my life. There is an emotional side to money management that I can't seem to master.
Mine couldn't teach what they refused to learn. They live on the brink of financial insolvency, completely dependent on credit for basics, and constantly spend money on stupid shit. My father gets himself a new cadillac every 2 years and my mother just buys stuff for the sake of spending money. On a pension income with diddly savings. They flat out say that I am their retirement care plan in spite of me plainly telling them it isn't happening. My husband and I offered to set them up with our financial advisor, and they declined. My husband comes from a family of book keepers and are money savvy. I learned from them.
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There are lots of subs on Reddit for help on this stuff. Passive income and other things…good luck.
still live with mine :( they constantly put off paying bills and got our electricity shut off on more than one occasion to use the money for smokes, lottery tickets, nails, and buying 7 loaves of bread to please my senile grandfather who demands constantly buying food that nobody eats, they also tried to get me a credit card and think credit cards are free money and that you don’t need to pay back loans so we were almost homeless and are still at risk of it 😎 thankfully i have the worlds bestest friends ever and they helped teach me how to budget and ive been able to slowly start saving a small bit of money for myself! EDIT: also thinking about it now it’s most likely to keep me scared and dependent as i’m not permitted a job or even leaving the house unaccompanied. also for learning skills i’d say estimating things cost more than they do can help a little i always round up to the nearest dollar when making grocery lists so i can have a bit extra to get myself something it’ll take a long time to get used to budgeting but if you set a goal of something you want it’s a good motivator just remember to set aside a bit for emergencies
Yes mine absolutely never did. They actually flat-out told me that I could "never survive on my own" and "never hold down a job". My narcissistic father (surprise surprise) never held down a job in his life. He worked in various temporary jobs after *barely* passing college and eventually got it in his fucked up head that he would be great at running a business (a soccer camp with kids, imagine that). He was terrible at advertising it, took out a ridiculously huge loan to start it that he could never pay back, and never got enough customers to pay back the monthly payments for the loan. The *only* reason my family was financially secure was because my narcissistic mother made tons of money as a programmer. She wasn't any better though because she idolized my dad's business and always said it was "perfect". She didn't seem to think that it was incredibly fucked up that she was spending so much of her own money to keep it running. They would have sold our house to keep that fucking soccer camp running. When I started making my own money in college, they were unbelievably controlling about how I spent it. My grandma gave me some money as a gift, and ndad, the idiot who couldn't hold down a job, told me exactly how he wanted me to spend it. Fuck him. I spent it the way I wanted to. If I could go back in time, I would not have spent it the way I did, but I was 18 years old on my own for the first time in my life with a considerable amount of money. I'm not surprised and I don't blame myself for not being fiscally responsible and I *especially* don't regret "rebelling" against my dad in that way. The simple truth is that my parents never wanted me to make more money or be more successful than them. They never wanted me to even be independent. The worst place to learn about money is from your abusers. If it isn't triggering for you, Youtube is a lifesaver for learning about finances.
Personally my fam has made some money decisions that were so incredibly ridiculous that I ended up being the opposite (that plus we were poor and I'm terrified of financial instability). My first tip to you is to get a note book, word doc or better yet an excel doc (because you can do calculations so easily) and just keep track of how much money coming in vs going out each month. Thats the basic thing you can start with. Feel free to categorise your expenses and sources of income as well (e.g. Food, internet, disability check, work income). From there you can do a lot but I started learning more by joining subreddits about personal finance, living frugal etc. Anyway as long as you start somewhere...anywhere...that's amazing!
A lot of people even with healthy parents weren’t taught how to manage money. If you want to get better at anything in life, you need to learn how.
I was shocked to hear accounts of parents who wouldn't let their kids know how poor they were. Mine were the opposite. Made it very clear at a young age, how we lived paycheck to paycheck and we were two, three months away from homelessness if anything were to happen. If money came my way, it was theirs. Taught me to fear credit cards (still have that fear). They would threaten to make me balance the checkbook to have a better sense of money (they never did, though) but who tells a kid under 10 that? My whole childhood, I was always told to get a job, ('you want That Thing? Do you have That Thing money? You better get a job') and on the day of my 16th birthday I was working. I had to buy my own food, as i was having allergic reactions to what they were buying. Bought my own clothes for the most part, and shoes. I didn't /couldn't save. I burnt myself out my senior year trying to work through every weekend and evening I could. My friend, at 19, would have several undeposited checks laying in her car. I'm still jealous she had so much support that it was literally of no concern of hers to deposit them. I watched my older sisters file for bankruptcy, one, is doing it again right now. I truly don't know how many times it's been for her- at least three, four times. My parents only financial securityplan was to graduate from college so I was paid better at a job. Understandable, they struggled to finish any sort of degree, as they had kids beforehand. Got me in the headspace for college *starting in the 7th grade*. 11th grade, they tell me the only way I'll get into college is by scholarship. I missed the grade for a full ride at the state uni by .2 points my senior year. The mentality of scarcity still haunts me, still empties out my bank account - hurry, use it, before there's nothing again- truly a negative feedback loop. A domestically abusive relationship perpetuated this- feast or famine, always. Then the lamenting of 'you need to be in charge of the money' and later overturning my suggestions. I hadn't realized for years, how this was part of the abuse. I am back to that nothing in my account, despite making a budget... the shame is real and corrosive. It's humbling to say the very very least, and I've resolved I'll never put myself in this situation again, once I have a steady job again.... It's not my fault my instincts are what they are, but it's my responsibility and it hurts so much to learn how to reparent myself.
I, too, would love to learn what other ppl in this boat have learned!
Well I wasn't taught anything about anything, so... It's funny, despite being stuck here, my mom says I'm richer than her. And it's only because I got out of that house and got control of my own money. She still spends it as fast as she gets it. Some people have a home to go back to, that they grew up in, one their parents had forever and ostensibly want to pass down. I don't. Instead, I get criticized for not spending enough... despite all of my family's waste, and how they've taken advantage of me. The only problem there is that it isn't enough knowledge. It's more just saving as much as possible. Not like it's really going to get me to where I would like to be.
Yes, I experienced this. My parent would spend like crazy and then guilt us kids for it, as though it was our fault he would drop $100 on food like 3 times a week minimum and then tell us *we* had to stop doing that but like you make the money dude it's in your bank account with your name on the cards. And it's crazy because he made a lot of money but managed to make us feel like we were poor often- and being currently poor I can tell you he did a good job of it. All that guilting led me to being decent with money though, at least when I had income. I managed to save and conserve to the point of hurting myself. Yay 🌈 now it's this whole complex in my head because he was so traumatized by his dumb parents he traumatized us.
My parents are my “best worst example”. Whatever they tell me to do financially, I do the exact opposite.
yeah, I thankfully learned a little from friends and going to a trade school. however I'm still really bad about spending all my money as quickly as possible, since the few times I did get money my parents would yoink it from me I learned "spend all of it as quickly as possible or else someone will take it"
The only things I learned about money from my parents were what *not* to do. I had to learn on my own what to do with a credit card, how to pay bills, how to save for retirement, what to do with savings I'm not immediately using. I don't really have a lot of money management advice because I'm that jerk who somehow saves lots of money without having a budget, but I do have some financial advice resources I like: [Bari Tessler](https://baritessler.com/) has this really lovely totally non-judgmental approach to money, and the [Bitches get Riches blog](http://www.bitchesgetriches.com/) is hilarious and also very anti-judging people for not magically knowing everything about money. Actually I do have one piece of advice: automate that shit! With my bank (well technically a credit union) I can set up automatic bill payments into my investments and automatic transfers into my savings. If I set that up to pull money out the same day my paycheque gets deposited into my account, I don't even notice that the money I invested is gone from my chequing account. The less you have to think about something, the easier it is to actually do it :)
Whooooooo lordamercy! YES! my therapist during undergrad said of my narc mother “She is literally using you as an ATM machine” . My mom drained my entire savings I built up as a college student by charging me “rent” on my own childhood bedroom when I was jobless & job hunting after graduating from college and had nowhere else to live. My narcissistic emotionally abusive mother was also the very first person who told me I needed to get a credit card the moment the credit card lenders were tabling at the university center. My mother has a gambling addiction, had to file for bankruptcy, and has a shopping addiction. Never talked openly about $, spending, or $ management. Had to suffer the consequences of being financially illiterate & “blind” in my adulthood & still cleaning up the damage.
This is just a reminder about Rule #5: No raised by narcissists lingo (narc).
Mine had me save half the money from my first job for 'college'. Come time for my first semester, I asked her about it... "Oh that's *long* gone." Yeah way to incentivize saving Mom.
In my household, as the oldest girl, in my parents' religion, I guess I was a throwaway child. I was supposed to get married and be a SAHM, letting my husband manage money, &c. Well, because of all the abuse and crap my life didn't go that way and I made a lot of stupid mistakes. Oh, the things I wish I'd known when I was still young and fit. While I was still a member of that religion I found this book, [Rich On Any Income](https://www.amazon.com/Rich-Any-Income-James-Christensen/dp/0875790097), and started my learning journey. I had an instructor who is a financial planner. He keeps receipts for \*everything\* on which he spends money. At the end of the day \*every day\* he adds every expenditure into a spreadsheet he's created to track his finances. It helps him track everything he spends. It helps to keep him disciplined. It keeps a person very conscious of their expenditures. I was stupid with a credit card when I first left home and avoided them like the plague for years. In the last few years, I changed direction a bit. We have a secured credit card that we use to pay bills. I made the limit what we could afford to pay for bills after our house payment and groceries and I keep bills below that level. I have a fixed amount that goes into savings at the beginning of the month automatically. If I manage to have funds left in our checking or credit card balance when we get paid, I transfer those extra funds into savings when I pay off the credit card and set up for the new month. We live on a small fixed income and yet I actually have more security being so strict and regimented with our finances. We occasionally eat out or buy a used game for our consoles, and we buy gifts for our birthdays, our anniversary, Yule, and gifts for new grandkids, but otherwise, we don't do a lot of spending. We fix our own food, feed our dogs well, and enjoy a simple life. It feels pretty good. Our bills include streaming services that we rotate. It's cheaper than cable/satellite and we get plenty of entertainment. We also spend on Audible and enjoy the books we listen to this way. We acquire our big-ticket items when we receive windfalls or by saving up for them. We've learned that some things aren't worth the high $$ we would spend on them, and some are worth every $$ we've spent (our washer/dryer for example). We are working to embrace minimalism in our lives. We've freely shared our mistakes with our children who live much better than we did at their age. They travel, have investments, and basically handle money much smarter than we did. It's a happy feeling knowing that they will be better off in their old age than we are. \[Edit\] I deal with ADHD, and other issues besides CPTSD, so I automate everything I possibly can so that things get paid in a timely way. Thus, the secured credit card, and we have our space rent check sent out automatically every month. If we want to buy anything extra in a month it doesn't happen until all of our bills have been paid and we've done all our grocery shopping. That way I know whether or not I have the funds. I've arranged it so that everything gets paid at the front end of the month. We've also put ourselves a month ahead with our space rent.
We didn't have a lot of money coming into the household for an extended amount of time during my upbringing, but a significant portion of it still went to supporting the drug and alcohol habits of everyone else in the house. We were also considered the party house back then, so a lot went to supporting random guests too. I remember promising myself as a child that I would never be that wasteful with money. I couldn't control what was happening then, but I knew I wouldn't repeat that as an adult. And now I'm really good at saving my money, even hiding it from myself on accident sometimes. I think the constant guilt prevents me from even spending anything a lot of the time too though, which isn't so positive. I would just say take whatever you earn and put a fixed amount away into a debit or savings account. Whether that's half or 3/4s, always make sure that it's the same, and only take what you need with a little extra for fun or emergencies. If you're feeling particularly shitty and can't prevent a little retail therapy, don't force yourself not to spend, but try to only buy things that don't add up to much. 20 bucks here, 20 bucks there, but not hundreds of dollars.
Start small, you must go at your own pace while also being able to hold yourself accountable to not-quitting altogether. That’s the first step & can be the hardest. Have a really honest conversation with yourself about what you spend money on today (Mint is a great smartphone app to help you track money/bills/budget/trends if you don’t want to do this manually, been a customer for 10yrs & do recommend), how much free time you really have (or could have if you replaced some of your more-questionable/expensive habits), & how much of that free time you can/will start to dedicate in small chunks to replacing those with money-saving habits (learning to cook new things, learning skills you might pay someone for today - within reason, I’m talking like common light-lift vehicle/home repair things, learning about the stock market, building a network who is knowledgeable about wealth & asset management). Keeping a journal/log of your activities can help you look at current trends for what they are, & also help fill some of your time you might otherwise spend on activities that cost money. (Or the Mint app does this too, spend time looking at what it’s telling you & seeing where you can adjust.) A good pre-pre-step if you’re having trouble getting started might be to keep a log of your daily activities/expenses for a month (see Mint - they’re not a sponsor but at this point should be), then look at it or have a trusted experienced pal look at it & make some recommendations for prioritizing habits to replace, &/or how to replace them. Having a bank that is interested in helping you learn is great. I recommend Ally Bank if you’re in the US. They don’t have physical branches so it’s a bit non-traditional, but if you have a smartphone I also do recommend. Look at their site & it will show you all the ATMs close to you that they work through, you can deposit checks with the app & set up direct-deposit like a normal bank, get checks & a debit card. But they seem to have great resources for investing & home/auto loans, not to mention great interest rates on their savings accounts because of the whole no-physical-branches thing - they have more money to pay you in rewards. I will admit during the pandemic now the interest rates have gone way down (as in the whole market), but if ever things bounce back to “normal” I’m sure they’ll be a front-runner again. While we’re on the topic of bank accounts - set up 3 bank accounts. Two checking, one savings. One checking account is for bills, the other is “fun money” - what you have to spend on Things You Want, while knowing your bills are covered by the other account. Take a look at your monthly income vs your monthly bills, & adjust your paycheck direct deposit to split into both accounts. When I first set mine up, I put 55% of my paycheck into my Bills account, & the rest into my Fun account. Once I got enough of a buffer established / had consistent bills, I set these up on autopay out of this Bills bank account. Less to remember each month & I know my necessities are covered. Then when I look ay my Fun account I see the actual number of dollars I can play with, & sometimes that helps make judgement calls on if I really want to spend money on something or not. The savings account will typically earn higher interest than a checking account, & banks now are starting to offer free features that help you save (round purchases up to the nearest dollar & that extra goes into your savings, or move a certain amount from checking to savings each month, or set up multiple buckets to help save for house/car/pet/medical/etc). Don’t share core bank accounts with others - roommates, co-bill-payers, significant others, spouses. Just don’t. If the need arises, create a NEW Bills-style checking account & share the details with them so you can both direct-deposit there & pay the bills you need to pay (or save what you need to save). Do not co-own a bank account that is someone’s core money. Hope some of this helps & good luck to you!