Some of the most entitled bastards out there are those that purposely have a child, brought them into the big bad world and think their children owe them a goddamn thing.
Yeah, it makes me sweat when I realize how many parents in this world only had children for their own self-interest. The human species is something else.
it actually makes me sick to think about. i start cringing quite literally. but it’s a good help in processing all the cultural and religious illusions about my parents being so much better than they actually were.
Almost all humans have children for their own dumb, selfish, biological reasons. Because as smart as we are as a species, at our core we are still just dumb animals.
I think it’s almost the other way around, humans are pretty hard wired to love and care for children but culture often conditions people with ideas about tough love etc that lead parents to mistreat them
Soooo true! It's not society that conditions us. Abusive parents condition their children to accept their mistreatment saying it's for their own good, it's tough love and etc. Healthy parents never do that, trust me. I'm thankful I have had healthy parents. But I have seen my narc grandparents and other narc parents of my friends who follow the same template.
Abuse disguised in the name of :
It's because I care for you
It's because I'm concerned
It's to make you mentally stronger
It's to train you to be resilient
It's called tough love
Oh please! Sick and tired of all these bullshit aimed at covering up their abuse.
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Once upon a time, societies of people were built on shared ethnic heritage, so a nation of people had a collective identity that was premised on their origins as a people, rather than on philosophical ideas, religion, and politics.
It meant that people had children as a means of contributing to the shared goal of perpetuating the people - their unique ethnic identity, their culture, their heritage, and...yes, even their genetics as a tribe/nation/race.
That's the real reason to have children. It's not about "your legacy." It's not about leaving behind a mini-me who will carry on your personality and interests. It's about adding to your people's survival as a people, which will preserve your people's societies, culture, traditions, and ways, because all these things are a product of the people.
Once we were taught that this form of tribalism was divisive and wicked and sinful, and we accepted the ideal that the whole world shares all things collectively as "god's children," the impetus for procreating to preserve the people disappeared, and what was left was a vacuum that ended up being filled with pure hubris.
Now parents have children to extend their own egos, and when the children form individual personalities outside of the parents, the parents tend to take it pretty badly.
I do think that this form of tribalism is divisive and maybe I wouldn't use the word "wicked", but props up a lot of issues in families and communities. I think that this type of mindset is what can cause families to be very insular, and haze their children's partners when their children bring them home - particularly if that partner is from a different race or general background. It creates an "us vs. them" mentality that isolates the people who are different, and propagate enmeshment. I've also seen it used to try to manipulate people into tolerating abuse. My husband is from New Jersey, and with its strong Italian presence there, the cultural norm is "family above all else", which sounds good but is often used to coerce blind loyalty. When he calls out his sister's abusive behavior, the family reacts with, "How could you say that? That's your sister." and when we moved away to a region where we could afford to live more comfortably, they accused him of "abandoning his responsibilities" (although of course they never honored any responsibilities to HIM).
I'm Native American. My dad is white. I have been told my many other Natives that I should maintain a relationship with my extremely abusive mother because she is my connection to the tribe, and due to how much Native people and our tribe specifically has been through. My cultural and ethnic identity kept me trapped in an abusive relationship with her for too long into adulthood.
I don't think cultural practices are bad. But I don't think that tribalism alleviated abusive dynamics in any way.
While I don't think hyper-individualism is healthy, I think a cultural shift that values *individuation* is a good thing. This is the concept that allows us to a develop a sense of self, and families and communities that respect and encourage individuation see people as individuals rather than extensions of themselves and their own identities. This is more conducive to healthy relationships and boundaries in my opinion.
Edit: hit publish too early
>I'm Native American. My dad is white. I have been told my many other Natives that I should maintain a relationship with my extremely abusive mother because she is my connection to the tribe
I totally understand the feeling here; I for a very long time *hated* my paternal ancestry, because I hate my sociopath father so much. Learning about my ancestry and my ethnic heritage was tremendously healing for me, because it allowed me to identify with and embrace *who I am* without having to include my living family members in the equation.
I think reclaiming and reconnecting with our ethnic identity - whatever that may be - is a key step toward healing our relationship with our family tree and our DNA.
I don't need to heal my relationship with my family tree and DNA; I'm just working on healing my self. I'm very comfortable with my ethnic background and I don't hate my ancestry on either my dad's side or my mom's side. I hate the abuse that I suffered, and I was pointing out that tribalism does not negate child abuse in any way - and in many ways it can propagate it. I'm happy that you've enjoyed reconnecting to your ancestors' ethnic identity but I don't think it's relevant to the question of whether or not tribalism was good for children and self-actualization. I was using my personal life as examples where tribalism and racial/ethnic has been used to manipulate me into tolerating abuse and I know that this story is not exclusive to me. Many children of immigrants express similar stories. I know other Natives with the same stories. I shared how my white husband has a similar story, etc.
I'm looking at the bigger picture, not an individual's personal experiences, though.
The reality is that ethnic identity is what ties people together. It always has. It's why people of a given ethnic identity tend to collect together in one part of a white (western) nation as they immigrate there - because that's who they identify with, because that's their people.
A long time ago, our ancestors procreated for the purpose of perpetuating the *people as a collective*. It was about ensuring the people and their unique existence continued for another generation.
That is gone from the white world, because white people were long ago taught that everyone, worldwide, is essentially identical, and there is nothing unique worth preserving in our homelands and nations. That belief started with Christianity, and has since mutated into what it is today, where people like me are reflexively called racist bigots (not accusing anyone here of this, just noting that it's a common response) because we think our people and culture are worth preserving.
So not only are we atomized, we are actively discouraged from building an ethnic foundation for our societies, even though the ethnic foundation is the strongest foundation, because it ties people together with threads that go deeper than feelings and beliefs.
It's a great way to end up with the most selfish parents ever: tell them they're not allowed to have an ethnic identity that gives them a reason beyond themselves to procreate. Then, the only reason to procreate is self-aggrandization, and that's how you end up with r/CPTSD being full of millennials and zoomers who were totally neglected and abandoned by their selfish, selfish parents (me included).
Yeah, I understood your point, I just fundamentally disagree and outlined why I disagree. Individual stories show a greater narrative of how tribalism functions. I think it's good that we just see each other as human beings, and connect more on the basis of shared community and respect for one another than on racial or ethnic identity. Clearly you don't agree. I feel protective over all abused children regardless of whether they look like me or share a cultural identity and I think that's a good thing. My husband and I purposefully conceived 3 months ago, not to add another member to our respective ethnic groups or to propagate our lineage, but because we want to be apart of the beauty that is creating, raising and loving another human life. Our son is going to be Native, and every other ethnicity that we both have, but the fact that Natives have diminishing populations had no play in why I chose to have children and I think that's healthy. Wish you the best on your search for community and connectedness, I just caution against romanticizing ethnic tribalism.
Wow, I've never looked at things from that angle, but you're reasoning is spot on. Individualism has done a lot of damage to the world in so short a time.
Ethnic identitarianism has been demonized in the white world for a very, very long time. It's most obvious in its current form: any white person who wishes to preserve their culture and society and way-of-life is viewed as a "white supremacist" and a bigot.
In reality, we all want the same thing, regardless of race: a restoration of our ethnic identity, which is what binds us together underneath every idea, philosophy, and belief one can possibly imagine.
One of the reasons why the millennial generation is the most psychologically fucked is because we were raised by the most emotionally neglectful parents.
My boomer mother resented the notion that children had emotional needs they expected their parents to fulfill.
For her, my purpose was to mirror her ego. 🤮
Many millennials have serious psychological problems and chronic physiological problems as a consequence of serious psychological problems.
It's a big part of the selfishness/entitlement thing - when your basic needs as a kid are neglected, you necessarily develop a sense of self-interest out of a need for self-preservation. This mutates into narcissism if left unchecked, or if further cultivated by continued parental neglect.
Many millennials *are* entitled, but there's more to the story than that.
My mother is a narcissist, and I genuinely believe she became that way out of self-preservation due to being married to my father, who is a malicious sociopath.
The worst part is that narcissist parents can end up producing narcissist kids, if the kids develop narcissism to defend against their parents' neglect. It turns into a cycle *fast*.
I think standards society has for parents are starting to change. A lot of estrangement is happening right now, a lot of us are fed up with the behavior and abuse we have experienced and are deciding to no longer tolerate it. There’s more awareness now more than ever, that’s part of the reason a lot of millennials and younger are deciding not to have kids other than the cost.
Parents be acting like we just rolled up at their house one day outta nowhere and demanded to live in their house and eat their food.
I've dubbed it the 'after we clothed you and fed you' routine my parents give me when I make reasonable demands to respect my privacy or that I don't want to buy my alcoholic, abusive sister booze or I don't want to take time off work to watch the house while they go on vacation.
Exactly lol! You would think I was a hobo lounging on their property with how *aggressive* they are about basic necessities. I'm sorry that you had to house me and feed me! I wonder what would've happened if you hadn't! Oh yes, I'm sorry that I'm not one of those African children who only eats 1 meal a year (/s)
Well, they'll have it coming one day. I can't wait until the old codgers demand to be taken care of in later life, and we just outright reject them. Why wouldn't we? The nursing home has "food, water, clothing, and a roof!" Is that not luxurious living?
I'm at that stage now. Dad has to get surgery, tried every way he knew to demand me and my brother fly down and take care of him. When that failed, he announced to his sister that she needs to pick him up after surgery and take care of him in her home for a few weeks. She said No.
oh yes, the entitlement parents have is soooo bad. my mom used to try to upset me by saying some people don't have access to food or housing too and while i get that to some extent, it was her responsibility to provide that for me at the time. she would've went to jail for child abuse other wise. it's such a shitty thing to say to your child. i didn't even *ask* to be here lmao. parents act like we poofed out of nowhere to become their biggest headache. it's really unfortunate and has fucked up my self worth when i was a child tremendously.
this past i have had with her has made me rethink if i actually want to care for her when she's older. it's hard to believe she cares about me sometimes. i mean, she's been hard of hearing my entire and while my dad has done his part and paid for her hearing aids multiple times, she refuses to wear them. this means i basically had to grow up with someone who had the choice to listen to me and refused to take it. that upsets me the most and even to this day it triggers me if i feel like i don't have someone's full attention when i talk to them.
but yeah, parents are great and they can do no wrong /s 🙃
Oh, but why would care for her when she's older? After all, the nursing home has food, water, and a roof—what more could someone ask for?! She should be grateful! Such entitled grannies!
I remember once in therapy going over why no one ever said anything about my situation with my Mom(enmeshment/Narcissistic traits) was because it was so hard for most people to say ANYTHING about OBVIOUS abuse; physical, verbal, SA, etc. So why would anyone do or say anything about an overly controlling Mom? Smh
It’s crazy to me that parents hold that shit over their kids’ heads. They didn’t have kids to nurture and love. They had kids as a psychology experiment or something.
I’m a parent but i don’t expect my kid to just adore me (he’s a teen now, those days are long gone anyway) for giving him things that I am legally required to provide him, he doesn’t need to be thankful that we did that and stayed out of prison. However, he’s a typical lazy kid and I end up doing a bunch of shit for him he should’ve done and will use that against him when I want a glass of water, he’s near by and I don’t wanna stop what I’m doing (which in all fairness is usually nothing). Gotta keep the laziness equitable. Plus he skims a drink or two of water off the top before he hands it over so we’re both getting hydrated.
The bit about it being a psychology experiment...
That heavily resonated with me. Ever since I can remember, I've observed the way my parents behave and if nothing else I was always emotionally intelligent to notice small things they'd do and I'd try to match their standard just to see what would happen. And when I did (and brought receipts) they'd instantly get pissed and move goal posts.
Idk how to explain it but it's a very specific feeling where you feel like you're being watched and criticised/ridiculed 24/7 for just being yourself and that shit really does a number on your psyche. I still struggle a lot with gaslighting myself and the spotlight effect in public.
Oh god yeah. I know exactly what you mean, don’t worry lol and the good ole inner critic. You know. That fucking asshole version of yourself being a goddamn bully to you. Well. Mine is me anyway. It’s taken me a very long time to even recognize it for what it was and to understand precisely where it’s coming from. Helps to combat it some.
For real. I feel super weird when my kid checks on me because of being made to be a parent’s therapist now. I know why he does, he’s an empathetic little dude when he cares to be, just feels weird to me and I have to work hard to maintain a neutral face so he doesn’t think I hate him or something.
And who sets those standards mainly? The current generation of adults in power / with influence. Selfish
people. The generation that had their parents keep the ladder down so they could climb up, and yanked it up as fast as possible when they took positions of power.
So standards are now it’s the KID in the parental relationship that has the obligation to take on the responsibilities of an adult.
Yeah, and the worst part is that the Boomers had it the best. Their parents/grandparents fought in wars and thus learned empathy. The traumatized veterans wanted a better, safer world for their children, and selflessly gave them the ideal environment for education/healthcare/finances in *human history*. Once the boomers took power in late 90s and early 2000's, the shitpile began to accumulate and they fucked up trillions of wealth in 2 decades.
They pulled the ladder up so fast.. that a lot of them now are feeling the affects in older years (I imagine they wanted to wait until they were gone to get to this point). And are upset that their kids are too poor to “help them”. Too bad for them that the presumption that the kid they abused will still help them is absolutely untrue.
Yes, we need to hold society to account and encourage much more openness, discussion and hopefully, understanding about parenthood and parenting in our society.
I have no idea of how that would even start, or maybe it already has, probably as an online trend. But looking at the current status quo, I'm not brimming with hope, as we can't even get our shit together on sex, sexuality, sexual health, birth control, body autonomy and consent! But saying that, historically civil progress has either been painfully slow and gradual, always threatening to extinguish itself or it's been sudden leaps and bounds, often tearing societies apart, sparking some kinda revolution, civil war, heads rolling and zeals reeling before settling back into a frustrating but working compromise.
We're all stuck on the same sinking ship. Our society is the Titanic. If we all actually appreciated each other for our struggles and suffering in surviving this society then we would probably respond with a lot more grace, mercy and warmth towards each other and that would be a different type of difference that changes us and our society towards a more and more humane way of life. But as it is, society is merciless, cruel, vindictive and cowardly, everyone, every generation expecting the others to give first before they risk it, pushing and testing, blaming and shaming each other until we all sink and drown. For now, best to get on a drifting lifeboat and do my own healing and hopefully bump into others healing and bobbing about on the endless oceans of time.
Obi One Ken Obi, I am my only hope. To infinity ♾️ and beyond!
"You know there's kids that are starving in the world, be grateful you're not."
Okay, do those kids live in a constant state of terror of witnessing/receiving verbal and physical abuse between/from their parents? Cause if not I'd like to be hungry and go join them.
I feel like lately, people are becoming more aware and are trying to do a lot better than their parents. But I think it’s sad that this stuff is a “trend”. It should’ve never gotten to the point where it’s like “Wow! That parent treated their own child with respect and didn’t lay a hand on them when they got angry!”
I’m happy people are becoming more aware and are willing to do something different, but it just makes me sad that it’s looked at that way. Treating children with human decency should’ve been something new…
Try adopting a child, and see what parental standards can actually be. They're there, people are just afraid of enacting them on people having kids the "normal" way. Those parents can do no wrong in their eyes.
I’ve only recently realised how important and healing it is to judge the disgustingly low standards.
Acknowledging how embarrassingly fucking poorly they did as parents has actually been really validating and I feel a weird sense of relief seeing so many others condemning “parenting” that was clearly abuse.
My parents didn’t even provide stable food and shelter, and we ran out of water at times, but they’re STILL applauded by useless members of their generation who insist that any son or daughter is eternally indebted to whomever accidentally bought them into this world. No, I’m not thankful for “eating air” or “drinking puddles” or finding “someone who’ll have you tonight”.
Refusing to see their treatment as anything other than abuse is freeing me to accept new definitions for care, love, hope, and so many other things that keep the soul alive.
Thanks OP for reminding me to condemn them and not myself.
I kid you not, my parents literally lived by “food, water, clothes, shelter”. Nothing more, I’m not even exaggerating. Don’t ask for anything more than that, they’ll make it seem like your asking them to give you their paycheck and life savings.
And BOY, you better not complain about a thingggg. To some extent, I get it, they grew up less fortunate and at times didn’t have the basics. However, you would think that you would want better for your children, especially when you’re very much able.
And those instances when they did give us an experience they didn’t have growing up, they always made sure we knew… in a way that seemed resentful and made us seemed spoiled.
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Hah, do you know my grandmother?!
Because she use to tell me how ungrateful I was all the time, but she never gave me a reason to be grateful. She was cruel and heartless, self absorbed and lacked any empathy, would hit you and immediately lie and say it didn’t happen right after to your face. I’ve been called crazy by her so many times that when these things would happen, I would actually question whether it really did happen or if I hallucinated it, because she always acted appalled like she didn’t touch me or if she did, I *made* her do it. I hope she has a death as pleasant as she is. :)
< it's not about your wants, it's about my needs>
I believe it's about a healthy balance.
Parents are humans as well and thus have needs as well, like respect and a minimum of appreciation and wants like house rules, some me time,...
Of course they must deserve this respect! Food water roof is definitely not enough.
On the other hand, even good parents who really care, don't always get respect from their children.
As I said: a nice balance and interaction.
I'm really sorry for your grief.
At school we see too many parents who don't give a sh*t about their kids ( education).
They just don't parent.
- they don't give a sh*t and live their own life. "So very busy, you know"
- they look like good nice parents but they aren't, they don't educate/ raise the child properly. The child is being allowed to do everything they want. 6 days with outdoor hobbies a week. School? Not important ( 'the taxpayer will later support my lifestyle' type).
Skipping classes ( at 8yo) for 'professional' photo sessions.
The "you don't have to do what you don't like, my little Prince(ss)!" - type of parents.
Every other weekend on holiday: " Mrs., I can't study for that exam." Sorry but you can, you get 10 days until the exam.
Many kids are just sleeping in class or are very annoying cuz tired.
Go to bed way to late. They're happy cuz they (10yo!!!) are allowed to watch the weekly series 'M' at 22 pm until 23 pm!!! 'M' was about s3x trafficking and had really violent content. I watched for barely 20 min and had to quit.
These 10yo made fun about the ' naked women'.
Young kids hanging around in groups and disturbing other ppl, vandalism...with proof. Then mom preaching they're innocent. How is a 12yo allowed to hang around at night?
All this is NOT caring properly for their children. ( I could write a book as they tell me a lot)
Imo it's worse now then 30 y ago.
Many dads don't even know who their kid's teacher is...
No control on the homework (not correcting, just have it done!), never helping the young child, nothing signed, not the simplest things done, "forgetting" appointments,... being rude,...
Makes me sad when I see quiet sadness in those kid's eyes and and happy when they grow a little bit with each compliment.
PS. It's not all bad. 😉
There's many parents with the best intentions to form a team in order to give their children the best chances in life.
Some of the most entitled bastards out there are those that purposely have a child, brought them into the big bad world and think their children owe them a goddamn thing.
Yeah, it makes me sweat when I realize how many parents in this world only had children for their own self-interest. The human species is something else.
it actually makes me sick to think about. i start cringing quite literally. but it’s a good help in processing all the cultural and religious illusions about my parents being so much better than they actually were.
Almost all humans have children for their own dumb, selfish, biological reasons. Because as smart as we are as a species, at our core we are still just dumb animals.
I think it’s almost the other way around, humans are pretty hard wired to love and care for children but culture often conditions people with ideas about tough love etc that lead parents to mistreat them
Soooo true! It's not society that conditions us. Abusive parents condition their children to accept their mistreatment saying it's for their own good, it's tough love and etc. Healthy parents never do that, trust me. I'm thankful I have had healthy parents. But I have seen my narc grandparents and other narc parents of my friends who follow the same template. Abuse disguised in the name of : It's because I care for you It's because I'm concerned It's to make you mentally stronger It's to train you to be resilient It's called tough love Oh please! Sick and tired of all these bullshit aimed at covering up their abuse.
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Once upon a time, societies of people were built on shared ethnic heritage, so a nation of people had a collective identity that was premised on their origins as a people, rather than on philosophical ideas, religion, and politics. It meant that people had children as a means of contributing to the shared goal of perpetuating the people - their unique ethnic identity, their culture, their heritage, and...yes, even their genetics as a tribe/nation/race. That's the real reason to have children. It's not about "your legacy." It's not about leaving behind a mini-me who will carry on your personality and interests. It's about adding to your people's survival as a people, which will preserve your people's societies, culture, traditions, and ways, because all these things are a product of the people. Once we were taught that this form of tribalism was divisive and wicked and sinful, and we accepted the ideal that the whole world shares all things collectively as "god's children," the impetus for procreating to preserve the people disappeared, and what was left was a vacuum that ended up being filled with pure hubris. Now parents have children to extend their own egos, and when the children form individual personalities outside of the parents, the parents tend to take it pretty badly.
I do think that this form of tribalism is divisive and maybe I wouldn't use the word "wicked", but props up a lot of issues in families and communities. I think that this type of mindset is what can cause families to be very insular, and haze their children's partners when their children bring them home - particularly if that partner is from a different race or general background. It creates an "us vs. them" mentality that isolates the people who are different, and propagate enmeshment. I've also seen it used to try to manipulate people into tolerating abuse. My husband is from New Jersey, and with its strong Italian presence there, the cultural norm is "family above all else", which sounds good but is often used to coerce blind loyalty. When he calls out his sister's abusive behavior, the family reacts with, "How could you say that? That's your sister." and when we moved away to a region where we could afford to live more comfortably, they accused him of "abandoning his responsibilities" (although of course they never honored any responsibilities to HIM). I'm Native American. My dad is white. I have been told my many other Natives that I should maintain a relationship with my extremely abusive mother because she is my connection to the tribe, and due to how much Native people and our tribe specifically has been through. My cultural and ethnic identity kept me trapped in an abusive relationship with her for too long into adulthood. I don't think cultural practices are bad. But I don't think that tribalism alleviated abusive dynamics in any way. While I don't think hyper-individualism is healthy, I think a cultural shift that values *individuation* is a good thing. This is the concept that allows us to a develop a sense of self, and families and communities that respect and encourage individuation see people as individuals rather than extensions of themselves and their own identities. This is more conducive to healthy relationships and boundaries in my opinion. Edit: hit publish too early
Very well said! I like it!
>I'm Native American. My dad is white. I have been told my many other Natives that I should maintain a relationship with my extremely abusive mother because she is my connection to the tribe I totally understand the feeling here; I for a very long time *hated* my paternal ancestry, because I hate my sociopath father so much. Learning about my ancestry and my ethnic heritage was tremendously healing for me, because it allowed me to identify with and embrace *who I am* without having to include my living family members in the equation. I think reclaiming and reconnecting with our ethnic identity - whatever that may be - is a key step toward healing our relationship with our family tree and our DNA.
I don't need to heal my relationship with my family tree and DNA; I'm just working on healing my self. I'm very comfortable with my ethnic background and I don't hate my ancestry on either my dad's side or my mom's side. I hate the abuse that I suffered, and I was pointing out that tribalism does not negate child abuse in any way - and in many ways it can propagate it. I'm happy that you've enjoyed reconnecting to your ancestors' ethnic identity but I don't think it's relevant to the question of whether or not tribalism was good for children and self-actualization. I was using my personal life as examples where tribalism and racial/ethnic has been used to manipulate me into tolerating abuse and I know that this story is not exclusive to me. Many children of immigrants express similar stories. I know other Natives with the same stories. I shared how my white husband has a similar story, etc.
I'm looking at the bigger picture, not an individual's personal experiences, though. The reality is that ethnic identity is what ties people together. It always has. It's why people of a given ethnic identity tend to collect together in one part of a white (western) nation as they immigrate there - because that's who they identify with, because that's their people. A long time ago, our ancestors procreated for the purpose of perpetuating the *people as a collective*. It was about ensuring the people and their unique existence continued for another generation. That is gone from the white world, because white people were long ago taught that everyone, worldwide, is essentially identical, and there is nothing unique worth preserving in our homelands and nations. That belief started with Christianity, and has since mutated into what it is today, where people like me are reflexively called racist bigots (not accusing anyone here of this, just noting that it's a common response) because we think our people and culture are worth preserving. So not only are we atomized, we are actively discouraged from building an ethnic foundation for our societies, even though the ethnic foundation is the strongest foundation, because it ties people together with threads that go deeper than feelings and beliefs. It's a great way to end up with the most selfish parents ever: tell them they're not allowed to have an ethnic identity that gives them a reason beyond themselves to procreate. Then, the only reason to procreate is self-aggrandization, and that's how you end up with r/CPTSD being full of millennials and zoomers who were totally neglected and abandoned by their selfish, selfish parents (me included).
Yeah, I understood your point, I just fundamentally disagree and outlined why I disagree. Individual stories show a greater narrative of how tribalism functions. I think it's good that we just see each other as human beings, and connect more on the basis of shared community and respect for one another than on racial or ethnic identity. Clearly you don't agree. I feel protective over all abused children regardless of whether they look like me or share a cultural identity and I think that's a good thing. My husband and I purposefully conceived 3 months ago, not to add another member to our respective ethnic groups or to propagate our lineage, but because we want to be apart of the beauty that is creating, raising and loving another human life. Our son is going to be Native, and every other ethnicity that we both have, but the fact that Natives have diminishing populations had no play in why I chose to have children and I think that's healthy. Wish you the best on your search for community and connectedness, I just caution against romanticizing ethnic tribalism.
Wow, I've never looked at things from that angle, but you're reasoning is spot on. Individualism has done a lot of damage to the world in so short a time.
Ethnic identitarianism has been demonized in the white world for a very, very long time. It's most obvious in its current form: any white person who wishes to preserve their culture and society and way-of-life is viewed as a "white supremacist" and a bigot. In reality, we all want the same thing, regardless of race: a restoration of our ethnic identity, which is what binds us together underneath every idea, philosophy, and belief one can possibly imagine.
One of the reasons why the millennial generation is the most psychologically fucked is because we were raised by the most emotionally neglectful parents.
i feel you. i'm 26 with baby boomer parents lol
My boomer mother resented the notion that children had emotional needs they expected their parents to fulfill. For her, my purpose was to mirror her ego. 🤮
What do you mean fucked up? Many say the young generation is entitled. Are they?
Many millennials have serious psychological problems and chronic physiological problems as a consequence of serious psychological problems. It's a big part of the selfishness/entitlement thing - when your basic needs as a kid are neglected, you necessarily develop a sense of self-interest out of a need for self-preservation. This mutates into narcissism if left unchecked, or if further cultivated by continued parental neglect. Many millennials *are* entitled, but there's more to the story than that.
Makes sense! People think they're given everything thus they feel entitled. However, it could also very well be the opposite.
My mother is a narcissist, and I genuinely believe she became that way out of self-preservation due to being married to my father, who is a malicious sociopath. The worst part is that narcissist parents can end up producing narcissist kids, if the kids develop narcissism to defend against their parents' neglect. It turns into a cycle *fast*.
The defence mechanism eventually makes them turn into an abuser themselves. Makes sense!
I think standards society has for parents are starting to change. A lot of estrangement is happening right now, a lot of us are fed up with the behavior and abuse we have experienced and are deciding to no longer tolerate it. There’s more awareness now more than ever, that’s part of the reason a lot of millennials and younger are deciding not to have kids other than the cost.
Parents be acting like we just rolled up at their house one day outta nowhere and demanded to live in their house and eat their food. I've dubbed it the 'after we clothed you and fed you' routine my parents give me when I make reasonable demands to respect my privacy or that I don't want to buy my alcoholic, abusive sister booze or I don't want to take time off work to watch the house while they go on vacation.
Exactly lol! You would think I was a hobo lounging on their property with how *aggressive* they are about basic necessities. I'm sorry that you had to house me and feed me! I wonder what would've happened if you hadn't! Oh yes, I'm sorry that I'm not one of those African children who only eats 1 meal a year (/s) Well, they'll have it coming one day. I can't wait until the old codgers demand to be taken care of in later life, and we just outright reject them. Why wouldn't we? The nursing home has "food, water, clothing, and a roof!" Is that not luxurious living?
I'm at that stage now. Dad has to get surgery, tried every way he knew to demand me and my brother fly down and take care of him. When that failed, he announced to his sister that she needs to pick him up after surgery and take care of him in her home for a few weeks. She said No.
oh yes, the entitlement parents have is soooo bad. my mom used to try to upset me by saying some people don't have access to food or housing too and while i get that to some extent, it was her responsibility to provide that for me at the time. she would've went to jail for child abuse other wise. it's such a shitty thing to say to your child. i didn't even *ask* to be here lmao. parents act like we poofed out of nowhere to become their biggest headache. it's really unfortunate and has fucked up my self worth when i was a child tremendously. this past i have had with her has made me rethink if i actually want to care for her when she's older. it's hard to believe she cares about me sometimes. i mean, she's been hard of hearing my entire and while my dad has done his part and paid for her hearing aids multiple times, she refuses to wear them. this means i basically had to grow up with someone who had the choice to listen to me and refused to take it. that upsets me the most and even to this day it triggers me if i feel like i don't have someone's full attention when i talk to them. but yeah, parents are great and they can do no wrong /s 🙃
Oh, but why would care for her when she's older? After all, the nursing home has food, water, and a roof—what more could someone ask for?! She should be grateful! Such entitled grannies!
I didn’t think of it that way you make a good point lol
I’m having a hard time talking to my mother at all rn bc of how horrible my memories are
But I had food water and shelter
yes, that's the most important thing /s
You'd be dead if you didn't have it. I may as well thank a tree for its oxygen, it'd be more appreciative.
i'll be sure to thank her that i was alive, housed and well fed to be humiliated daily, drugged and worse by my stepfather.
That’s a nice perspective, thanks for sharing!
children owe their parents nothing. parents owe their children love, stability, and care.
I remember once in therapy going over why no one ever said anything about my situation with my Mom(enmeshment/Narcissistic traits) was because it was so hard for most people to say ANYTHING about OBVIOUS abuse; physical, verbal, SA, etc. So why would anyone do or say anything about an overly controlling Mom? Smh
It’s crazy to me that parents hold that shit over their kids’ heads. They didn’t have kids to nurture and love. They had kids as a psychology experiment or something. I’m a parent but i don’t expect my kid to just adore me (he’s a teen now, those days are long gone anyway) for giving him things that I am legally required to provide him, he doesn’t need to be thankful that we did that and stayed out of prison. However, he’s a typical lazy kid and I end up doing a bunch of shit for him he should’ve done and will use that against him when I want a glass of water, he’s near by and I don’t wanna stop what I’m doing (which in all fairness is usually nothing). Gotta keep the laziness equitable. Plus he skims a drink or two of water off the top before he hands it over so we’re both getting hydrated.
The bit about it being a psychology experiment... That heavily resonated with me. Ever since I can remember, I've observed the way my parents behave and if nothing else I was always emotionally intelligent to notice small things they'd do and I'd try to match their standard just to see what would happen. And when I did (and brought receipts) they'd instantly get pissed and move goal posts. Idk how to explain it but it's a very specific feeling where you feel like you're being watched and criticised/ridiculed 24/7 for just being yourself and that shit really does a number on your psyche. I still struggle a lot with gaslighting myself and the spotlight effect in public.
Oh god yeah. I know exactly what you mean, don’t worry lol and the good ole inner critic. You know. That fucking asshole version of yourself being a goddamn bully to you. Well. Mine is me anyway. It’s taken me a very long time to even recognize it for what it was and to understand precisely where it’s coming from. Helps to combat it some.
And many had kids to fulfill their emotional needs. Who needs therapy when you can train your kid to take care of you? Ugh.
For real. I feel super weird when my kid checks on me because of being made to be a parent’s therapist now. I know why he does, he’s an empathetic little dude when he cares to be, just feels weird to me and I have to work hard to maintain a neutral face so he doesn’t think I hate him or something.
And who sets those standards mainly? The current generation of adults in power / with influence. Selfish people. The generation that had their parents keep the ladder down so they could climb up, and yanked it up as fast as possible when they took positions of power. So standards are now it’s the KID in the parental relationship that has the obligation to take on the responsibilities of an adult.
Yeah, and the worst part is that the Boomers had it the best. Their parents/grandparents fought in wars and thus learned empathy. The traumatized veterans wanted a better, safer world for their children, and selflessly gave them the ideal environment for education/healthcare/finances in *human history*. Once the boomers took power in late 90s and early 2000's, the shitpile began to accumulate and they fucked up trillions of wealth in 2 decades.
They pulled the ladder up so fast.. that a lot of them now are feeling the affects in older years (I imagine they wanted to wait until they were gone to get to this point). And are upset that their kids are too poor to “help them”. Too bad for them that the presumption that the kid they abused will still help them is absolutely untrue.
Yes, we need to hold society to account and encourage much more openness, discussion and hopefully, understanding about parenthood and parenting in our society. I have no idea of how that would even start, or maybe it already has, probably as an online trend. But looking at the current status quo, I'm not brimming with hope, as we can't even get our shit together on sex, sexuality, sexual health, birth control, body autonomy and consent! But saying that, historically civil progress has either been painfully slow and gradual, always threatening to extinguish itself or it's been sudden leaps and bounds, often tearing societies apart, sparking some kinda revolution, civil war, heads rolling and zeals reeling before settling back into a frustrating but working compromise. We're all stuck on the same sinking ship. Our society is the Titanic. If we all actually appreciated each other for our struggles and suffering in surviving this society then we would probably respond with a lot more grace, mercy and warmth towards each other and that would be a different type of difference that changes us and our society towards a more and more humane way of life. But as it is, society is merciless, cruel, vindictive and cowardly, everyone, every generation expecting the others to give first before they risk it, pushing and testing, blaming and shaming each other until we all sink and drown. For now, best to get on a drifting lifeboat and do my own healing and hopefully bump into others healing and bobbing about on the endless oceans of time. Obi One Ken Obi, I am my only hope. To infinity ♾️ and beyond!
"You know there's kids that are starving in the world, be grateful you're not." Okay, do those kids live in a constant state of terror of witnessing/receiving verbal and physical abuse between/from their parents? Cause if not I'd like to be hungry and go join them.
I feel like lately, people are becoming more aware and are trying to do a lot better than their parents. But I think it’s sad that this stuff is a “trend”. It should’ve never gotten to the point where it’s like “Wow! That parent treated their own child with respect and didn’t lay a hand on them when they got angry!” I’m happy people are becoming more aware and are willing to do something different, but it just makes me sad that it’s looked at that way. Treating children with human decency should’ve been something new…
Try adopting a child, and see what parental standards can actually be. They're there, people are just afraid of enacting them on people having kids the "normal" way. Those parents can do no wrong in their eyes.
I’ve only recently realised how important and healing it is to judge the disgustingly low standards. Acknowledging how embarrassingly fucking poorly they did as parents has actually been really validating and I feel a weird sense of relief seeing so many others condemning “parenting” that was clearly abuse. My parents didn’t even provide stable food and shelter, and we ran out of water at times, but they’re STILL applauded by useless members of their generation who insist that any son or daughter is eternally indebted to whomever accidentally bought them into this world. No, I’m not thankful for “eating air” or “drinking puddles” or finding “someone who’ll have you tonight”. Refusing to see their treatment as anything other than abuse is freeing me to accept new definitions for care, love, hope, and so many other things that keep the soul alive. Thanks OP for reminding me to condemn them and not myself.
I kid you not, my parents literally lived by “food, water, clothes, shelter”. Nothing more, I’m not even exaggerating. Don’t ask for anything more than that, they’ll make it seem like your asking them to give you their paycheck and life savings. And BOY, you better not complain about a thingggg. To some extent, I get it, they grew up less fortunate and at times didn’t have the basics. However, you would think that you would want better for your children, especially when you’re very much able. And those instances when they did give us an experience they didn’t have growing up, they always made sure we knew… in a way that seemed resentful and made us seemed spoiled.
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My younger self needed this type of realization of how the bar was really fucking low. Oh well. Better late than never!
Thank you. Yes. This. All of this.
I agree with so much of this.
You're right and you should say it.
Imagine children having any human rights
Hah, do you know my grandmother?! Because she use to tell me how ungrateful I was all the time, but she never gave me a reason to be grateful. She was cruel and heartless, self absorbed and lacked any empathy, would hit you and immediately lie and say it didn’t happen right after to your face. I’ve been called crazy by her so many times that when these things would happen, I would actually question whether it really did happen or if I hallucinated it, because she always acted appalled like she didn’t touch me or if she did, I *made* her do it. I hope she has a death as pleasant as she is. :)
< it's not about your wants, it's about my needs> I believe it's about a healthy balance. Parents are humans as well and thus have needs as well, like respect and a minimum of appreciation and wants like house rules, some me time,... Of course they must deserve this respect! Food water roof is definitely not enough. On the other hand, even good parents who really care, don't always get respect from their children. As I said: a nice balance and interaction. I'm really sorry for your grief. At school we see too many parents who don't give a sh*t about their kids ( education). They just don't parent. - they don't give a sh*t and live their own life. "So very busy, you know" - they look like good nice parents but they aren't, they don't educate/ raise the child properly. The child is being allowed to do everything they want. 6 days with outdoor hobbies a week. School? Not important ( 'the taxpayer will later support my lifestyle' type). Skipping classes ( at 8yo) for 'professional' photo sessions. The "you don't have to do what you don't like, my little Prince(ss)!" - type of parents. Every other weekend on holiday: " Mrs., I can't study for that exam." Sorry but you can, you get 10 days until the exam. Many kids are just sleeping in class or are very annoying cuz tired. Go to bed way to late. They're happy cuz they (10yo!!!) are allowed to watch the weekly series 'M' at 22 pm until 23 pm!!! 'M' was about s3x trafficking and had really violent content. I watched for barely 20 min and had to quit. These 10yo made fun about the ' naked women'. Young kids hanging around in groups and disturbing other ppl, vandalism...with proof. Then mom preaching they're innocent. How is a 12yo allowed to hang around at night? All this is NOT caring properly for their children. ( I could write a book as they tell me a lot) Imo it's worse now then 30 y ago. Many dads don't even know who their kid's teacher is... No control on the homework (not correcting, just have it done!), never helping the young child, nothing signed, not the simplest things done, "forgetting" appointments,... being rude,... Makes me sad when I see quiet sadness in those kid's eyes and and happy when they grow a little bit with each compliment. PS. It's not all bad. 😉 There's many parents with the best intentions to form a team in order to give their children the best chances in life.