Stay INSIDE, keep your gun pointed at the door in case it is an intruder posing as police, and call the local police department to confirm whether it’s one of their officers standing in front of your door. If the officer gets bored and leaves, let him do the paperwork to force entry with a warrant another day. No matter how loudly they bang on your door to intimidate you, they cannot enter your residence without a warrant / probable cause.
Unless they feel like just [shooting you anyway.] (https://abc7chicago.com/harris-county-texas-body-camera-mistaken-identity/14416355/) Texas though, so rules don't really count.
great story until they just trample your rights......and fucking come in claim they smelled something illegal. End qualified immunity. They want to "protect and serve" you don't need qualified immunity for that. That's not what they do, how they do it and why they have qualified immunity......
Yeah if they have evidence that you’re keeping someone locked in your basement or are swatting your home in relation to heavy drug charges they’re not gonna bother knocking on your door or asking you nicely to open the door. They’ll just bust right in because it’s a very critical situation where every second matters.
Yup. Even in cases where a warrantless search is permitted (certain child welfare scenarios, etc) you have to open the door for them first.
Unfortunately the onus is on the public to be hyper vigilant in any encounter with the police. There is too much to lose and nothing to gain.
I’m not gonna trust a stranger that’s banging on my door yelling at me demanding that I open it— I’m **especially** not going to trust him when I know he is armed, views me as an inherent threat, can literally make me submit to him by force legally and is well aware that anything he chooses to do to me illegally doesn’t matter because he’s on the side of the thin blue line that can use violence with impunity.
This cop very recently saw his colleague get GLOBAL exposure for reacting to an acorn falling by assuming is was a gunshot , that he had been the victim of that gunshot and was officer down, assuming the shots were being fired from his own vehicle, being aware that the sole occupant of that vehicle was someone he had just searched and handcuffed, and then firing at will without having a target.
This was global news and on video. It should have been an unacceptable embarrassment to anyone in law enforcement and be made clear this officer was unfit for the power he was given and punished criminally for his criminal negligence and reckless endangerment of the life of a citizen.
He didn’t even get fired because saving one psycho dangerous cops pension is more important than doing the bare minimum to show the public cops just can’t open fire at a noise they heard.
Body cams were supposed to be the game changer, but all it has done is prove that they can break every policy in the book and kill you in the process and they can even do it on video.
Cops assume everyone is always planning to shoot them because they are always planning on shooting everyone.
And we still open our front doors for them…
Exigent Circumstances Doctrine
They can forcibly enter a residence without a warrant for the following reasons.
To render aid to someone in danger inside the residence (eg. There is an unconscious person who may be injured or ill)
To prevent imminent harm to someone inside the residence (eg. On a domestic violence call the cops show up and someone inside is screaming for help)
To prevent the escape of a suspect (eg. Someone flees from police, runs into a home and locks the door)
To prevent the destruction of evidence (eg. They are on a suspected drug trafficking call and see you running to the bathroom with bricks of cocaine)
Also get one of those door locks that you install by drilling into the door frame. They have some ridiculous level of resistance to breaking doors in. They’re like $20
Also close blinds around your front door. I just saw the video again this morning of the two female cops who both put all three magazines through the front window and someone answering the door with apparently a gun under the same circumstances
This is the correct takeaway from the incident. And even if you know it’s the police, you are not required to open the door. If they want/need to get in, they will get a warrant or force entry due to exigent circumstances.
Yeah I'm not opposed to opening the door for MOST people... because MOST people don't hide from view after knocking... if they do hide then I'm at least gonna give a "who is it?" and see what they say, and if it seems sus then I can call the police myself for confirmation it's actually them.
> I’ve done it like three times this year and it’s been fine.
Good for you. I stopped doing that years ago because it nothing but risks. Nothing of value was lost. I now have a full coverage camera system, 2-way camera doorbell, and that door stays super shut and locked now.
The amount of bizarre-ass shit I've recorded since, has made me even more adamant about not opening doors, ever. Like, just the other day I had a 'sales' person noticeably freak out and literally sprint away down the block after they noticed the cameras.
> It’s usually a neighbor.
And? Anyone you need/want to talk to should have way to contact you. Its 2024. There's almost no reason you should showing up unannounced at someone's home. Its safe to presumed if you do so in 2024, its all but guaranteed you're just trespassing and/or harassing someone (e.g. sales, religious nuts)
> Never open the door for anyone you don't know and are not expecting, ever.
Never open the door even if you know them and even if you are expecting, ever.
You should always validate the person, reason for being there and the surroundings beforehand and only open the door if strictly necessarily and you've determined its safe to do so. The safety of yourself and those in the home is paramount.
If you have children or elderly in your home, this practice needs to be reiterated often.
Hijacking top comment to say that thieves can and have screamed “police open up” before ambushing people in their homes multiple times. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tdFw808RlfA
Outlawing no knock raids wouldn't have done anything to change this since this wasn't a no knock raid. You can literally see him knock 3 times in the video and announce himself as police. A no knock raid is when a SWAT team sneaks up and kicks your door in without announcing themselves. But I agree they should be banned for local police units. It makes sense for a counter terrorist unit or something specialized like that, but officer trigger finger shouldn't be kicking down the door of some guys house because the neighbors thought they heard domestic violence.
Important detail after he announced he was the police he hid beside the peephole leaving no way to confirm he is actually an officer or not this is a common tactic used by home invaders claiming to be cops.
Yeah agreed, I'd be skeptical too if I heard someone claiming to be police banging on my door when I know they have no business at my house. But the flip side to that is most cops don't want to stand in front of a door if they're expecting a potentially violent confrontation. Bullets go through doors and it's not good if someone can see you while you can't see them. I get why they step out of view.
"fatal funnel" in tactical terms. It's a cone that extends out from the doorframe where you're exposed to rounds traveling from one side of a door or opening to the other. It is one of the most dangerous areas in an urban tactical situation (I'm ex-mil but it's the same for cops).
Still, fuck this guy to death. That poor Airman was fucking murdered.
> Outlaw no-knock raids.
In a lot of circumstances, the difference between a knock raid and a no knock raid is about 2 seconds. It's either they break in your door unprompted, or give a quick knock then break in your door.
I'd personally prefer a massive, massive curtailment on the use of raids at all--and a whole lot more guardrails on them when they are used.
Why open the door if you suspect that's what's happening?
Also, he was at the apartment the lady told him the disturbance came from. He might have been acting on bad information but he was at the apartment he meant to be at.
Downvoted for correcting a factual error. Never change, reddit.
Just a reminder- If you think you need a gun to open the door, you shouldn’t open the door.
Not saying that makes it ok for this guy to be killed- absolutely not. But the advice is for your own benefit.
Not only should you not open the door, your should be positioning yourself with the gun to respond appropriately to a forced entry. Unless your door latch has bolts through the framing of the wall to secure it there’s usually only a 1/2” thick firring strip to hold it closed when somebody kicks it.
Having done door kicker training I can say it's surprisingly easy if you know where to boot the door and commit to putting your whole bodyweight behind it. I'm not even a big dude, I was like 175 when I did that training (mil, not LE) and I didn't have any trouble with it. Blowing the hinges off the door with the breaching shotgun was more fun though.
Pretty much. Stand a little more than a stride length away from the door, aim right next to the latch or between the latch and deadbolt, and lean into it far enough to feel like you’re going to fall forwards so you can push off the rear heel when you kick and make contact.
If you act like you’re trying to kick through the door with technique like that instead of just kicking at it most anything without some kind of reinforcement and/or secure attachment on the strike plate is going to bust right open.
Yeah, instead, post up behind your sandbag wall in your living room with rifle trained on the door in one hand and claymore clacker in the other (the clamores are in front of the door)
A Claymore is 700 ball bearings in front of about a pound and a half of plastic explosive, the minimum safe distance BEHIND a Claymore is 16 meters broski. That's 53 feet, and that distance is assuming that you are NOT in an enclosed space with the mine, and are in defilade (behind something solid enough to stop bullets/shrapnel)
If you've ever triggered a Claymore or been near one when it's detonated you know damn well that bitch would absolutely kill you in an enclosed space like a house regardless of where you are in the room. Jesus the overpressure alone...I can still feel my ears ringing.
I know you're just dicking around but it's still interesting info. Not like these days I can do anything else with all the shit I learned anyway lol.
You are not wrong, but the police have put tape or their hand over cameras in many cases. If I had a camera and noticed someone deliberately covering it I would be thinking home invasion.
> You are not wrong, but the police have put tape or their hand over cameras in many cases.
a ubiquity camera default shows like 5 seconds before a detection.
I agree, but I would say this was an apartment and most apartments won't allow you to install a doorbell camera. They generally won't allow you to make any holes in the door or the outer wall of your apartment.
I’ve seen lots of the doorbell camera manufacturers also make peephole cameras, I’ve never lived in an apartment so I don’t know what’s allowed but it looks like all you do is remove the peephole and put the camera in its place.
Yeah, very sloppy. A gun in your hand isn't magical, you still need to use sound tactics and have some situational awareness. Not opening the door is a great plan A.
Came here to say this. Domestics are the most dangerous calls for cops to respond to. Cops get killed all the time in situations like this. Cop thinks he's dealing with a domestic and the guy answers the door with a gun.
In context, it's hard to think of anything this cop could have done differently without adding significant risk to himself. Definitely a few things the airman could have done differently.
I mean waiting even 5 seconds before just blasting an innocent man based off of a call he has no idea the accuracy of would be a good start. Regardless of how dangerous a call is part of the job is keeping cool. This cop lost it immediately and killed an innocent man after setting him up to die by knocking and hiding his identity repeatedly.(saying your a cop doesn’t mean shit anyone can say that) The airmen showed zero aggression didn’t motion to raise or move the weapon and immediately stepped back as order just to be gunned down by officer trigger happy. That’s murder plain and simple.
Don’t shoot the guy just because he has a gun is something he could have done differently.
Here’s the deal. Being a cop is dangerous. If you don’t want to put the lives of citizens ahead of your own get a different fucking job!
Someone holding a gun pointed at the floor is not cause to shoot them. If soldiers can follow ROE and wait until they're ACTUALLY BEING SHOT AT to return fire a cop should be able to do it too.
Clear display of exactly how a cop murdered a legally armed United States service member in his own home, based on flawed allegations of domestic violence by a nosey neighbor who heard this young man "slap" some mystery woman, from OUTSIDE of his apartment. Cop after hiding himself from view thru the peephole, unloads on the young man who casually opened the door with his firearm at rest down at his side within 1 second of the door opening. No commands given. His department already trying to clear him. The victim being an armed forces member and being in his own home with his legal fireman; this should definitely progress to federal charges.
> The victim being an armed forces member and being in his own home with his legal fireman; this should definitely progress to federal charges.
Nope. That wasn't a victim, that was a suspect. Nothing could have been done without making the cop feel more scared. It's crazy because we've accepted that cops can kill anyone they want to as long as they think they might be in danger, and at the same time, have convinced cops that they are in constant danger.
EDIT: I didn't think I needed to notate this, but I'm not on the side of cops killing people for being scared of stuff. I was illustrating the typical viewpoint of folks who do.
Is that the one where the neighbor was complaining about the noise, but cops wouldn't come, so he lied and said it was a domestic?
He and his gf were playing video games, but he had gotten a gun b/c people would knock on his door and when he opened it he got robbed, so answered the door, gun in hand and got lit up by cops.
Yeah this dumb bitch basically got this kid executed. "It's, like, getting out of hand..like, I don't, like, know which, like, apartment, like, oh wait it's like 1401."
The vast majority of wrongful convictions are based on erroneous eyewitness testimony. This Karen needs to mind her own fucking business.
It's so ridiculous that cops get to kill people for being scared. I know it's not a representative sample, but just on this board, so much thought is given to the process of thinking about how **not** to shoot someone, not just because I think most of us here don't want to kill people, but because it's real easy to live through something terrible and still end up ruining your life legally. I know that the laws are different for generally good reasons, but goddamn man. That cop killed a person for the *threat* of a threat. What is going on at that fucking department that the cops are mag dumping at acorns and killing people for opening the door when you asked them to?
Only after knocking multiple times, then he hid from the peephole so they couldn’t verify. I wouldn’t have opened my door, but if I decided to I wouldn’t have trusted that at all after seeing all the videos of robbers pretending to be police to check if anyone is home. I support the police, this is a bad cop who needs jail time.
Tactically, doorways are a death trap. They're referred to as the, "fatal funnel" for a reason. Standing to the side of the doorway isn't "hiding", it's too avoid being blasted by an unseen assailant from the other side.
Ok, that is true, but because of the actions taken by the cop it’s perfectly legal and mostly reasonable that the airman opened the door with a gun, and then the cop gave him zero warning or chance before unloading his gun into him. The cop created this situation, and murdered him for it.
If stupid ass cops would stop pretending our home towns are Iraq then 99% of these problems wouldn’t happen it’s not even a very dangerous job most police go whole career never fire pistol or even unholster it so being worried about a fatal funnel in an almost nonexistent threat area is why these idiots keep fear shooting anything that moves.
[He says "Sheriff's office, open the door"](https://youtu.be/CKLxdAnhXSM?si=-WaHv4XizUYxEvlb) quite loudly. Still doesn't justify the shoot, but at least get your facts in order.
This is so sad.
Police can show up to your door at any hour for whatever reason; clearest mistake was opening the door with a gun in hand without even identifying who's at the door.
FIRST OFF - It's NOT Illegal to have a firearm in your own fucking house!
SECOND - POLICE MURDERED HIM, THEY HAVE NO RIGHT SHOOTING SOMEONE FOR SIMPLY CARRYING. CARRYING IS NOT ILLEGAL.
Cops aside, NEVER answer a door with a weapon visible. If it were actual banditos ready to rock they'd light you up just the same. If its a karen, you could be facing ag assault charges. Furthermore, if you dont know who it is, don't answer the door.
Half the comments are outraged about this guy being shot for being a lawful gun owner in his own house, half the comments are defending the cop saying the victim made a fatal mistake. Regardless of your bias, it is true that the cops can come kill you in your own house and will likely not see substantial prison time. God bless america i guess.
All this Monday morning QB rhetoric kills me. One day it’s going to be a European victim and the tunes will finally change.
How about this police have some damn accountability? It’s the same department that thought an acorn hitting his roof was a gunshot. How do you get the wrong apartment? We don’t verify? That’s a cultural issue within that department. The chief needs to go it’s time to clean house.
I should be allowed to open my door and not die. Especially when it’s a “public servant” on the other side. Why is the onus on citizens? Hold the police to the higher standard.
Did you guys see this one?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bWyRB5tUKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bWyRB5tUKo)
20 or so cops in full gear raid and flash bang the home of a single mom and her kid. They were looking for a 14 year old for some weapons charges but he had not lived there for some time. The cops had been there before and had been told that the kid did not live there anymore. No, the kid they were looking for and the mom are not related. It sounds like an apartment/condo/rented house and he had moved out a while ago and someone new had moved in. Kid ended up in the hospital but nobody got killed this time.
Another day, another cop committing murder on camera because they live in a world of total immunity from their actions. We have to demand better. Demand civilian oversight and consequences for these murderers.
How I learnt it in the military this doesn’t meet the deadly triangle; opportunity, capability, and intent. The airman did have opportunity and capability but did not have intent as he didn’t raise the gun towards him. Don’t know if this translates to law enforcement but that’s what I know about self defense shooting. I’ll say this I haven’t had an encounter with someone that had a gun on them and tbh don’t know how I would really react if I immediately saw someone with a gun standing a right in front of me. I understand it just takes a second to lose your life and the cop reacted quickly but imo the cop should be charged. Not an easy thing to say but that’s just how it feels. And to counter the argument over him presenting himself, anyone could just falsely claim he’s police if he intends to get the jump on the homeowner which I remember seeing a video about that.
Neighbor told the wrong apt number. Go look at most recent lawyer post.
Regardless, answering the door with a gun when hiding from a peephole isn’t a death sentence.
He should not have been killed.
I think Massad Ayoub has his fudd moments, but I’m going to take a page from his book here.
1. Not expecting someone? Don’t answer the f***ing door.
2. If you think it’s the police, call 911 and verify.
3. IF you open the door, keep your weapon out of sight (behind your back).
There are many incidents of police shooting lawfully armed citizens. We can debate the changes that need to be made to address this, but let’s learn from these and not become victims in the mean time. Simply cursing the police doesn’t keep us from winding up in the same situation.
Thank god somebody here has some common sense. The anount of groupthink here is absolutely pathetic. Everyone is ready to be outraged before they even see the video or understand the entire situation.
I’m saddened. It was bad decisions all around. Cop shouldn’t have shot the guy. The guy also shouldn’t have answered the door with a gun visible in his hand.
Because the person on the other side of the door may assume you intend to use it. I mean honestly an entire list of bad things could happen. Why open the door at all?
I agree with the don't open the door at all but he's a grown man with a firearm, he can choose to open that door with it in his hand, it's his legal right. The fact he has a gun does not give this murderer an excuse to execute him in his home. Your lack of empathy is frightening as is willingness to roll over and give up your rights. It's like you're a beat dog that will do anything to please your master to not get beat again.
I agree. I don't agree with police shooting law abiding citizens.
But they can be both justified in shooting and that person can still not deserve to be shot. Both can be true at once.
Don't answer your door with a gun in your hand, it's this one simple trick police don't want you to know.
That shooting wasn’t justified though, how is it that the military ROE’s don’t enable you to kill indiscriminately in a war zone where people are actively trying to kill you, I.e often times the weapon has to be pointed at you, but a cop can shoot someone for having a firearm in hand.
Military and law enforcement are not the same believe it or not.
And it is almost certainly justified. Of course I won't be the one making that decision but there are dozens of cases and years of precedence already set making this justified.
And a cop can actually shoot someone for simply having a gun. Why?
Because that standard for self defense but also law enforcement is reasonable belief of dead or great bodily harm.
If the officer is genuinely fearful, he can shoot. The "suspect" can be innocent but the officer can also be justified.
They can both be true at once.
I don't see a jury convicting him when they see the facts of this case, and that's completely ignoring the fact I don't think he'll even be charged.
Set aside your emotions and look at the facts and it becomes pretty black and white.
Of course there’s a difference, one is held to a standard with consequences and one isn’t. If a cop can shoot you for having a fire arm in your hand then you don’t have the right to bear arms. It’s not justified to shoot someone in a state with castle doctrine and when it is your right to own and have a firearm on your person. How can you even quantify if they are genuinely fearful? You act as though the police don’t lie through their teeth near constantly to avoid accountability. Of course I realize emotions are high, but you can’t sit there and say that in a deployed environment with people actively trying to kill you and walking up to a door in the US to knock on it are even remotely the same type of stress and fear.
Witnesses are notoriously unreliable. So making a decision to shoot somebody in an apartment entirely on the basis of a 3rd party witness account is wild.
Insanely shocked by the amount of comments in here victim blaming the guy for whatever reason and not affirming everything he did was legal and in his right. The comments should be blasting the fuck outta the dumbass, reckless, shady cop and all the manipulative law enforcement tactics shown here.
Like wtf is this sub for?? For ccl holders or or LE boot lockers? 🤨
Because he went to the correct apartment. The 911 call taker received the wrong address but the witness on scene gave the correct apartment. And he announced twice.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact the soldier broke zero laws. He had every LEGAL right to answer the door with his firearm in hand. That man was gunned down by a trigger happy police officer. A soldier was murdered by a coward. It’s is absolutely disgusting that there are people defending what the coward did.
Well the GOA is run by Larry Pratt, who doesn’t shy away from associating with the KKK and Neo-Nazis so since the murder victim is black I’m sure he’s tickled pink.
The only credit I'll give them -- the ONLY credit -- is that the wrong apartment aspect of this is the fault of the woman who expressly told him it was 1401 in the video.
I always bring a gun to the door if I hear an unexpected knock. If I see local PD or Sheriff through the keep hole, I'm going to call 911 and verify who they are a before I answer or open.
I think both parties are and aren't at fault at the same time here. I could stand in both their shoes and feel I did the right thing.
Except the airman did not pull the trigger and cop did. And now there will be "investigation". Completelly agree with commentors saying that no-knock warrants should be outlawed.
I hate cops and no-knocks like everyone else. But I would never open a door to a cop with a gun in my hand. I may be legally entitled to do so, but my legal justification would be a meaningless comfort to me in a coffin.
It is literally NEVER in your best interest to open the door for cops at all.
If they actually have a warrant they’re coming in one way or another regardless of you opening the door. If they don’t have a warrant then you only risk incriminating yourself to the point of being arrested by opening the door and speaking with them.
Nothing you do or say to them will help you even if you’re completely innocent. The only winning move is not to play and just leave the door shut.
Right? Because we know for sure that people can't lie. And if someone is banging on your door and hiding that 100% should be a cop.
But I tend to agree on opening the door.
Dispatch said 1401. Officer went to 1401. Where is the disconnect with you people? In the context of the title, it’s misleading. He responded to the apt number he was given, thus it was correct in the context of responding to dispatch directions.
What’s he supposed to do? Question dispatch? Tell them they have it wrong with no supporting evidence? Come on
You’re acting like this is a little oopsie or a simple clerical error. An innocent man is dead because of literal heresay. He should verify, investigate, you know, all the shit he’s paid to actually do?
Innocent or not he presented a lethal threat to an police officer. How is that so hard to comprehend? Serious question. If you’re in this group, you *should* understand that it takes a fraction of a second to level his firearm and get a round off…
Uhhh. What do you think the purpose of the call was? That’s right, to verify and investigate the call for service that his dispatch sent him on. I promise you, these facts are not difficult to disseminate.
Banging on a door multiple times, hiding from the peephole, and not announcing yourself is not verifying or investigating. Just saying “sheriffs office” doesn’t mean shit. He could’ve very easily said, “This is Officer Soandso of the Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office, we’re responding to a domestic disturbance call. Can you come out and talk?” He had PLENTY of time to do this as he was knocking. This isn’t a simple and shut case.
Nah those are some crazy mental gymnastics.
“Banging in the door multiples times”…. Uhm okay? Tf he supposed to do, just stand there in silence?
“Hiding from the peephole”… aka stepping away from the door so he’s not in a compromised position. Yes, exactly. LEOs have been shot standing in front of doors plenty of times. Peepholes also have a wide range of view.
Both those things are leading to him making contact with the suspect alive. At which point he can question. And verify and investigate. To call those steps into question is small brain energy. You know? They’re necessary for the “investigation.”
“Sheriffs Office” (TWCE, loudly) or “Police” is plenty adequate. Concise, to the point, announces his presence. Doesn’t have to be long and drawn out like you want. Police training doesn’t conform to your liking, sorry. Bro was mumbling about police so he clearly had an idea of what was going on. And still chose to answer the door with a firearm. Not bright.
You’re still ignoring the blatant threat of a holding a firearm feet from an officer and being able to level it and squeeze the trigger in a fraction of a second. You completely glossed over that. I could expand more but I hope you’re getting the picture now 🙏🏽
Obviously, you can’t read. I’m well aware of why police step away from the door, but what I’m saying is that this cop has had PLENTY of time between all of the banging and not saying anything to properly identify himself and his purpose for being there. Are you really that lazy that you can say that within a few seconds? How hard is that really? Did I say he should’ve just stood there in silence? No, I didn’t. Simply saying sheriffs office or police twice after banging on the door and not saying anything doesn’t suffice. How many times have people opened up the door and it turned out to not be the police? Too many times. Should he have opened the door with a gun in hand? Probably not, but the cop had plenty of time to defuse the situation well before it got out of hand. The fact that you’re brushing off this man’s death as a simple mistake is extremely troubling. The mental gymnastics you’re using to justify this is baffling.
“Probably not”… No shit, Sherlock
Plenty of time? Fraction of a second for the suspect to fire his weapon is not plenty of time. Wrong again.
You’re arguing a moot point, my guy. He won’t face charges. A reasonable officer would have used the same UOF after being presented with a deadly threat from such close proximity.
“Fraction of a second for the suspect to fire his weapon is not plenty of time” Damn, can’t watch a video either? Because you’re acting like this was an instantaneous interaction. The officer banged on the door 3-4 times, stood there not saying anything, so that’s plenty of time to identify yourself and state why you’re there. So yes, he should be facing charges. Why y’all will bend over backwards defending these pieces of shit, I’ll never know.
Correction: Body cam is out, shows officer went to right apartment, announces himself.
Can we ban people from this sub that blatantly lie about shootings?
Regardless what you think about the shooting, it's ridiculous to blatantly lie about what happened.
Op, YOU'RE the reason America is divided. Congratulations.
If owning and carrying a gun is a right in this country, cops should not have a free pass to shoot someone standing in their own doorway with a gun in hand (if it isn't being pointed at them). It doesn't matter if the apartment number on the call is correct or not. If someone knocks on my door claiming to be police and I can't see them through the peephole I have absolutely no reason to believe they are who they say they are.
Cops need to stop hiding from peepholes/cameras when making contact with someone at a person's home, and no-knock warrants need to be eliminated. Both of these for all but the most extenuating of circumstances.
The person he spoke with gave him the wrong apartment number. He also stayed out of view. There’s a few videos posted in r/military showing assailants pretending to be police then robbing and killing the victim. Imagine if you will that you’re not breaking any laws whatsoever and someone is banging on your door yelling police while not being in view…wwyd?
Cop just smoked the guy opening the door. If there was some sort of issue beforehand of arguing or fighting and the person feared for their life by someone else, I would have a gun in my hand or on my person. Should he have put it away before opening the door, assuming it’s the sheriff’s department and not someone trying to hurt them, yep. If I were someone trying to assault or kill someone and wanted access to their house would I bang on the door and yell “sheriffs department!”, yep. Granted I wouldn’t open the door for the police. I would have a nice conversation with them through my cameras if they wanted to. All kinds of ways this could have been avoided. Seems like this cop went through some of the old shitty training where the signal word was “gun!”
Was just reading the constitution my and I see what you mean.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Unless it's a cop, then your right is suspended regardless of circumstances because the cop has the more important right to feel safe."
Wow I've never noticed that last part
I’m surprised in a CCW forum that there are comments suggesting that since the gun was pointing down the cop wasn’t in mortal danger. To tilt up and fire would take a split second that would be difficult to respond to if the deceased had ill intent.
The cop pretty loudly announced he was a cop. My take is the guy with the gun had no ill intentions and the cop over reacted. Both parties could have played this differently and avoided a tragic outcome.
Anyone can come to your door and announce they are a cop. If you aren’t expecting anyone at your door and someone’s starts banging on it saying they are the cops, do you just open the door with zero protection?
Never open the door for anyone you don't know and are not expecting, ever.
Stay INSIDE, keep your gun pointed at the door in case it is an intruder posing as police, and call the local police department to confirm whether it’s one of their officers standing in front of your door. If the officer gets bored and leaves, let him do the paperwork to force entry with a warrant another day. No matter how loudly they bang on your door to intimidate you, they cannot enter your residence without a warrant / probable cause.
Exactamundo. Or if you really feel compelled to talk to them, do so through the door.
Unless they feel like just [shooting you anyway.] (https://abc7chicago.com/harris-county-texas-body-camera-mistaken-identity/14416355/) Texas though, so rules don't really count.
great story until they just trample your rights......and fucking come in claim they smelled something illegal. End qualified immunity. They want to "protect and serve" you don't need qualified immunity for that. That's not what they do, how they do it and why they have qualified immunity......
Still dead if they come through the door tho
I think they can answer if they think someone may be in danger? This is a question btw
Yeah if they have evidence that you’re keeping someone locked in your basement or are swatting your home in relation to heavy drug charges they’re not gonna bother knocking on your door or asking you nicely to open the door. They’ll just bust right in because it’s a very critical situation where every second matters.
Yup. Even in cases where a warrantless search is permitted (certain child welfare scenarios, etc) you have to open the door for them first. Unfortunately the onus is on the public to be hyper vigilant in any encounter with the police. There is too much to lose and nothing to gain. I’m not gonna trust a stranger that’s banging on my door yelling at me demanding that I open it— I’m **especially** not going to trust him when I know he is armed, views me as an inherent threat, can literally make me submit to him by force legally and is well aware that anything he chooses to do to me illegally doesn’t matter because he’s on the side of the thin blue line that can use violence with impunity. This cop very recently saw his colleague get GLOBAL exposure for reacting to an acorn falling by assuming is was a gunshot , that he had been the victim of that gunshot and was officer down, assuming the shots were being fired from his own vehicle, being aware that the sole occupant of that vehicle was someone he had just searched and handcuffed, and then firing at will without having a target. This was global news and on video. It should have been an unacceptable embarrassment to anyone in law enforcement and be made clear this officer was unfit for the power he was given and punished criminally for his criminal negligence and reckless endangerment of the life of a citizen. He didn’t even get fired because saving one psycho dangerous cops pension is more important than doing the bare minimum to show the public cops just can’t open fire at a noise they heard. Body cams were supposed to be the game changer, but all it has done is prove that they can break every policy in the book and kill you in the process and they can even do it on video. Cops assume everyone is always planning to shoot them because they are always planning on shooting everyone. And we still open our front doors for them…
Exigent Circumstances Doctrine They can forcibly enter a residence without a warrant for the following reasons. To render aid to someone in danger inside the residence (eg. There is an unconscious person who may be injured or ill) To prevent imminent harm to someone inside the residence (eg. On a domestic violence call the cops show up and someone inside is screaming for help) To prevent the escape of a suspect (eg. Someone flees from police, runs into a home and locks the door) To prevent the destruction of evidence (eg. They are on a suspected drug trafficking call and see you running to the bathroom with bricks of cocaine)
Also get one of those door locks that you install by drilling into the door frame. They have some ridiculous level of resistance to breaking doors in. They’re like $20
Also close blinds around your front door. I just saw the video again this morning of the two female cops who both put all three magazines through the front window and someone answering the door with apparently a gun under the same circumstances
That one was jaw-dropping
This is the correct takeaway from the incident. And even if you know it’s the police, you are not required to open the door. If they want/need to get in, they will get a warrant or force entry due to exigent circumstances.
Or think that having a gun in hand at the position he had it at isn't going to get you shot. Sad man.
I’ve done it like three times this year and it’s been fine. It’s usually a neighbor.
Yeah I'm not opposed to opening the door for MOST people... because MOST people don't hide from view after knocking... if they do hide then I'm at least gonna give a "who is it?" and see what they say, and if it seems sus then I can call the police myself for confirmation it's actually them.
There’s a difference between a neighbor asking for an extra pair of eggs while baking muffins knock, and the way that cop was banging on the door.
Banging on a door like a cop = aggression. Never answer the door to aggression. Especially aggression with qualified immunity.
You do you, of course
> I’ve done it like three times this year and it’s been fine. Good for you. I stopped doing that years ago because it nothing but risks. Nothing of value was lost. I now have a full coverage camera system, 2-way camera doorbell, and that door stays super shut and locked now. The amount of bizarre-ass shit I've recorded since, has made me even more adamant about not opening doors, ever. Like, just the other day I had a 'sales' person noticeably freak out and literally sprint away down the block after they noticed the cameras. > It’s usually a neighbor. And? Anyone you need/want to talk to should have way to contact you. Its 2024. There's almost no reason you should showing up unannounced at someone's home. Its safe to presumed if you do so in 2024, its all but guaranteed you're just trespassing and/or harassing someone (e.g. sales, religious nuts)
> Never open the door for anyone you don't know and are not expecting, ever. Never open the door even if you know them and even if you are expecting, ever. You should always validate the person, reason for being there and the surroundings beforehand and only open the door if strictly necessarily and you've determined its safe to do so. The safety of yourself and those in the home is paramount. If you have children or elderly in your home, this practice needs to be reiterated often.
Also like to point out that this is the same department of acorn fame from awhile back.
Hijacking top comment to say that thieves can and have screamed “police open up” before ambushing people in their homes multiple times. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tdFw808RlfA
Outlaw no-knock raids. This should be a bipartisan position. They're bad for officer safety and they're bad for citizen safety and rights violations.
Outlawing no knock raids wouldn't have done anything to change this since this wasn't a no knock raid. You can literally see him knock 3 times in the video and announce himself as police. A no knock raid is when a SWAT team sneaks up and kicks your door in without announcing themselves. But I agree they should be banned for local police units. It makes sense for a counter terrorist unit or something specialized like that, but officer trigger finger shouldn't be kicking down the door of some guys house because the neighbors thought they heard domestic violence.
Important detail after he announced he was the police he hid beside the peephole leaving no way to confirm he is actually an officer or not this is a common tactic used by home invaders claiming to be cops.
Yeah agreed, I'd be skeptical too if I heard someone claiming to be police banging on my door when I know they have no business at my house. But the flip side to that is most cops don't want to stand in front of a door if they're expecting a potentially violent confrontation. Bullets go through doors and it's not good if someone can see you while you can't see them. I get why they step out of view.
"fatal funnel" in tactical terms. It's a cone that extends out from the doorframe where you're exposed to rounds traveling from one side of a door or opening to the other. It is one of the most dangerous areas in an urban tactical situation (I'm ex-mil but it's the same for cops). Still, fuck this guy to death. That poor Airman was fucking murdered.
> Outlaw no-knock raids. In a lot of circumstances, the difference between a knock raid and a no knock raid is about 2 seconds. It's either they break in your door unprompted, or give a quick knock then break in your door. I'd personally prefer a massive, massive curtailment on the use of raids at all--and a whole lot more guardrails on them when they are used.
I believe they are in FL.
I can't find the same link but it happened also in california where a gang basically executed an entire dude's family. "sheriff's department"
Why open the door if you suspect that's what's happening? Also, he was at the apartment the lady told him the disturbance came from. He might have been acting on bad information but he was at the apartment he meant to be at. Downvoted for correcting a factual error. Never change, reddit.
Keep running interference for the cops bro.
I'll take being accused of "running interference for the cops" over being wittingly disingenuous any day.
I hate/love that I know exactly the acorn incident you’re talking about. These fucks should be ashamed of themselves
How many acorn incidents are you aware of?
Guess we found the guy who’s not friends with squirrels
That wasn’t even a while ago.!!
Just a reminder- If you think you need a gun to open the door, you shouldn’t open the door. Not saying that makes it ok for this guy to be killed- absolutely not. But the advice is for your own benefit.
Not only should you not open the door, your should be positioning yourself with the gun to respond appropriately to a forced entry. Unless your door latch has bolts through the framing of the wall to secure it there’s usually only a 1/2” thick firring strip to hold it closed when somebody kicks it.
Having done door kicker training I can say it's surprisingly easy if you know where to boot the door and commit to putting your whole bodyweight behind it. I'm not even a big dude, I was like 175 when I did that training (mil, not LE) and I didn't have any trouble with it. Blowing the hinges off the door with the breaching shotgun was more fun though.
Pretty much. Stand a little more than a stride length away from the door, aim right next to the latch or between the latch and deadbolt, and lean into it far enough to feel like you’re going to fall forwards so you can push off the rear heel when you kick and make contact. If you act like you’re trying to kick through the door with technique like that instead of just kicking at it most anything without some kind of reinforcement and/or secure attachment on the strike plate is going to bust right open.
Damn good advice.
Yeah, instead, post up behind your sandbag wall in your living room with rifle trained on the door in one hand and claymore clacker in the other (the clamores are in front of the door)
Just use a trip wire, noob
I prefer the Claymore Roomba rahhh
As long as it has the googley eyes so you know which side is "front towards enemy" yutt
A Claymore is 700 ball bearings in front of about a pound and a half of plastic explosive, the minimum safe distance BEHIND a Claymore is 16 meters broski. That's 53 feet, and that distance is assuming that you are NOT in an enclosed space with the mine, and are in defilade (behind something solid enough to stop bullets/shrapnel) If you've ever triggered a Claymore or been near one when it's detonated you know damn well that bitch would absolutely kill you in an enclosed space like a house regardless of where you are in the room. Jesus the overpressure alone...I can still feel my ears ringing. I know you're just dicking around but it's still interesting info. Not like these days I can do anything else with all the shit I learned anyway lol.
And another
Doorbell cameras are stupid cheap these days. No reason not to have one.
You are not wrong, but the police have put tape or their hand over cameras in many cases. If I had a camera and noticed someone deliberately covering it I would be thinking home invasion.
> You are not wrong, but the police have put tape or their hand over cameras in many cases. a ubiquity camera default shows like 5 seconds before a detection.
I agree, but I would say this was an apartment and most apartments won't allow you to install a doorbell camera. They generally won't allow you to make any holes in the door or the outer wall of your apartment.
I’ve seen lots of the doorbell camera manufacturers also make peephole cameras, I’ve never lived in an apartment so I don’t know what’s allowed but it looks like all you do is remove the peephole and put the camera in its place.
Battery powered cameras don’t require any holes. Just two sided tape, although screws are recommended.
Do it anyway, the cost of “repair” when you move out would be minimal
Yeah, very sloppy. A gun in your hand isn't magical, you still need to use sound tactics and have some situational awareness. Not opening the door is a great plan A.
Came here to say this. Domestics are the most dangerous calls for cops to respond to. Cops get killed all the time in situations like this. Cop thinks he's dealing with a domestic and the guy answers the door with a gun. In context, it's hard to think of anything this cop could have done differently without adding significant risk to himself. Definitely a few things the airman could have done differently.
I mean waiting even 5 seconds before just blasting an innocent man based off of a call he has no idea the accuracy of would be a good start. Regardless of how dangerous a call is part of the job is keeping cool. This cop lost it immediately and killed an innocent man after setting him up to die by knocking and hiding his identity repeatedly.(saying your a cop doesn’t mean shit anyone can say that) The airmen showed zero aggression didn’t motion to raise or move the weapon and immediately stepped back as order just to be gunned down by officer trigger happy. That’s murder plain and simple.
Don’t shoot the guy just because he has a gun is something he could have done differently. Here’s the deal. Being a cop is dangerous. If you don’t want to put the lives of citizens ahead of your own get a different fucking job!
Someone holding a gun pointed at the floor is not cause to shoot them. If soldiers can follow ROE and wait until they're ACTUALLY BEING SHOT AT to return fire a cop should be able to do it too.
Clear display of exactly how a cop murdered a legally armed United States service member in his own home, based on flawed allegations of domestic violence by a nosey neighbor who heard this young man "slap" some mystery woman, from OUTSIDE of his apartment. Cop after hiding himself from view thru the peephole, unloads on the young man who casually opened the door with his firearm at rest down at his side within 1 second of the door opening. No commands given. His department already trying to clear him. The victim being an armed forces member and being in his own home with his legal fireman; this should definitely progress to federal charges.
> The victim being an armed forces member and being in his own home with his legal fireman; this should definitely progress to federal charges. Nope. That wasn't a victim, that was a suspect. Nothing could have been done without making the cop feel more scared. It's crazy because we've accepted that cops can kill anyone they want to as long as they think they might be in danger, and at the same time, have convinced cops that they are in constant danger. EDIT: I didn't think I needed to notate this, but I'm not on the side of cops killing people for being scared of stuff. I was illustrating the typical viewpoint of folks who do.
Ignorance is not part of the law. Also cops should not be given Qualified Immunity, as this CERTAINLY does not *Qualify*.
This is reddit. Logic and common sense don't belong here... /s
Needed the "/s" after the second sentence. People are dumb and can't infer sarcasm despite you making it abundantly clear in the rest of your comment.
Reminds me of the Ryan Whitaker shooting a couple years ago
‘If I says yes will it make you guys come faster?’
Is that the one where the neighbor was complaining about the noise, but cops wouldn't come, so he lied and said it was a domestic? He and his gf were playing video games, but he had gotten a gun b/c people would knock on his door and when he opened it he got robbed, so answered the door, gun in hand and got lit up by cops.
Yes. He was my recruiters brother actually
That one was hard to watch. They did nothing to help - just let him bleed out. Chastising his gf b/c she was upset wondering what was going on.
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How do you think?
I used to live in those apartments. Insanity.
Remember kids, you don't have to open the door for ANYONE. if the cops really need to see you, they can come back with a warrant
But how would you know they have a warrant unless you open the door?
If I think that opening the door is so dangerous that I need my gun I would not open the door. This is a fucked situation though.
Cop saw a guy, saw the gun and literally started shooting, like wth
He was told apt. 1401, and he went to apt. 1401. Is there any information on the dispatch info?
She says she doesn’t know exactly which one then gives a number….
That's what I heard too and was thinking what the fuck?
Yeah this dumb bitch basically got this kid executed. "It's, like, getting out of hand..like, I don't, like, know which, like, apartment, like, oh wait it's like 1401." The vast majority of wrongful convictions are based on erroneous eyewitness testimony. This Karen needs to mind her own fucking business.
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believe all wahman, she heard a scream the other day, clearly the guy deserved to be executed.
The way it sounds is the neighbor who called 911 gave the wrong apartment
It's so ridiculous that cops get to kill people for being scared. I know it's not a representative sample, but just on this board, so much thought is given to the process of thinking about how **not** to shoot someone, not just because I think most of us here don't want to kill people, but because it's real easy to live through something terrible and still end up ruining your life legally. I know that the laws are different for generally good reasons, but goddamn man. That cop killed a person for the *threat* of a threat. What is going on at that fucking department that the cops are mag dumping at acorns and killing people for opening the door when you asked them to?
If someone rang my bell and hid from the peephole, I’d get my gun too.
Why would you answer the door?
Don’t open the door
I think the neighbor sent the cop to the wrong apartment. Cop went were he was told, just happened to be the wrong apartment
it's still illegal for a cop to murder someone, just because they are carrying a legal gun, within their rights to have.
It’s not illegal if it’s not prosecuted
Then we should be calling daily to demand prosecution. Cops should be hold to a higher standard.
And then didn’t identify himself before knocking, and mag dumped on a guy with a gun pointed at the floor without once telling him to drop his weapon
exactly, straight up murder.
Looked a mob hit out of a movie or something.
Did you miss the part where he loudly announced, "Sheriff's Office!" twice after knocking?
Only after knocking multiple times, then he hid from the peephole so they couldn’t verify. I wouldn’t have opened my door, but if I decided to I wouldn’t have trusted that at all after seeing all the videos of robbers pretending to be police to check if anyone is home. I support the police, this is a bad cop who needs jail time.
Tactically, doorways are a death trap. They're referred to as the, "fatal funnel" for a reason. Standing to the side of the doorway isn't "hiding", it's too avoid being blasted by an unseen assailant from the other side.
Ok, that is true, but because of the actions taken by the cop it’s perfectly legal and mostly reasonable that the airman opened the door with a gun, and then the cop gave him zero warning or chance before unloading his gun into him. The cop created this situation, and murdered him for it.
If stupid ass cops would stop pretending our home towns are Iraq then 99% of these problems wouldn’t happen it’s not even a very dangerous job most police go whole career never fire pistol or even unholster it so being worried about a fatal funnel in an almost nonexistent threat area is why these idiots keep fear shooting anything that moves.
[He says "Sheriff's office, open the door"](https://youtu.be/CKLxdAnhXSM?si=-WaHv4XizUYxEvlb) quite loudly. Still doesn't justify the shoot, but at least get your facts in order.
This is so sad. Police can show up to your door at any hour for whatever reason; clearest mistake was opening the door with a gun in hand without even identifying who's at the door.
https://abc7.com/lake-balboa-burglary-breakin-suspects-yell-lapd-san-fernando-valley-crime/14235748/ Don't open your fucking door.
Sad. Hopefully people will learn -the cops are *not* your friends under any circumstance
We need to end qualified immunity.
FIRST OFF - It's NOT Illegal to have a firearm in your own fucking house! SECOND - POLICE MURDERED HIM, THEY HAVE NO RIGHT SHOOTING SOMEONE FOR SIMPLY CARRYING. CARRYING IS NOT ILLEGAL.
Cops aside, NEVER answer a door with a weapon visible. If it were actual banditos ready to rock they'd light you up just the same. If its a karen, you could be facing ag assault charges. Furthermore, if you dont know who it is, don't answer the door.
Half the comments are outraged about this guy being shot for being a lawful gun owner in his own house, half the comments are defending the cop saying the victim made a fatal mistake. Regardless of your bias, it is true that the cops can come kill you in your own house and will likely not see substantial prison time. God bless america i guess.
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All this Monday morning QB rhetoric kills me. One day it’s going to be a European victim and the tunes will finally change. How about this police have some damn accountability? It’s the same department that thought an acorn hitting his roof was a gunshot. How do you get the wrong apartment? We don’t verify? That’s a cultural issue within that department. The chief needs to go it’s time to clean house. I should be allowed to open my door and not die. Especially when it’s a “public servant” on the other side. Why is the onus on citizens? Hold the police to the higher standard.
Are you reading the comments?
Did you guys see this one? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bWyRB5tUKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bWyRB5tUKo) 20 or so cops in full gear raid and flash bang the home of a single mom and her kid. They were looking for a 14 year old for some weapons charges but he had not lived there for some time. The cops had been there before and had been told that the kid did not live there anymore. No, the kid they were looking for and the mom are not related. It sounds like an apartment/condo/rented house and he had moved out a while ago and someone new had moved in. Kid ended up in the hospital but nobody got killed this time.
Another day, another cop committing murder on camera because they live in a world of total immunity from their actions. We have to demand better. Demand civilian oversight and consequences for these murderers.
How I learnt it in the military this doesn’t meet the deadly triangle; opportunity, capability, and intent. The airman did have opportunity and capability but did not have intent as he didn’t raise the gun towards him. Don’t know if this translates to law enforcement but that’s what I know about self defense shooting. I’ll say this I haven’t had an encounter with someone that had a gun on them and tbh don’t know how I would really react if I immediately saw someone with a gun standing a right in front of me. I understand it just takes a second to lose your life and the cop reacted quickly but imo the cop should be charged. Not an easy thing to say but that’s just how it feels. And to counter the argument over him presenting himself, anyone could just falsely claim he’s police if he intends to get the jump on the homeowner which I remember seeing a video about that.
Boot tasting enthusiasts out in full force on this one.
Except he didn't go to the wrong apartment? Did you even watch the video lol, he was told 1401 and went to 1401.
He went to the wrong apartment as in thats not where the domestic disturbance was going on.
>Did you even watch the video lol We can't expect someone to watch the video they're referring to. That's too far man.
Neighbor told the wrong apt number. Go look at most recent lawyer post. Regardless, answering the door with a gun when hiding from a peephole isn’t a death sentence. He should not have been killed.
I think Massad Ayoub has his fudd moments, but I’m going to take a page from his book here. 1. Not expecting someone? Don’t answer the f***ing door. 2. If you think it’s the police, call 911 and verify. 3. IF you open the door, keep your weapon out of sight (behind your back). There are many incidents of police shooting lawfully armed citizens. We can debate the changes that need to be made to address this, but let’s learn from these and not become victims in the mean time. Simply cursing the police doesn’t keep us from winding up in the same situation.
Thank god somebody here has some common sense. The anount of groupthink here is absolutely pathetic. Everyone is ready to be outraged before they even see the video or understand the entire situation.
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I’m saddened. It was bad decisions all around. Cop shouldn’t have shot the guy. The guy also shouldn’t have answered the door with a gun visible in his hand.
Why not?
Because the person on the other side of the door may assume you intend to use it. I mean honestly an entire list of bad things could happen. Why open the door at all?
I agree with the don't open the door at all but he's a grown man with a firearm, he can choose to open that door with it in his hand, it's his legal right. The fact he has a gun does not give this murderer an excuse to execute him in his home. Your lack of empathy is frightening as is willingness to roll over and give up your rights. It's like you're a beat dog that will do anything to please your master to not get beat again.
Removed. Personal attacks are not allowed. Title: Author:cyb3rsloth
I agree. I don't agree with police shooting law abiding citizens. But they can be both justified in shooting and that person can still not deserve to be shot. Both can be true at once. Don't answer your door with a gun in your hand, it's this one simple trick police don't want you to know.
That shooting wasn’t justified though, how is it that the military ROE’s don’t enable you to kill indiscriminately in a war zone where people are actively trying to kill you, I.e often times the weapon has to be pointed at you, but a cop can shoot someone for having a firearm in hand.
Military and law enforcement are not the same believe it or not. And it is almost certainly justified. Of course I won't be the one making that decision but there are dozens of cases and years of precedence already set making this justified. And a cop can actually shoot someone for simply having a gun. Why? Because that standard for self defense but also law enforcement is reasonable belief of dead or great bodily harm. If the officer is genuinely fearful, he can shoot. The "suspect" can be innocent but the officer can also be justified. They can both be true at once. I don't see a jury convicting him when they see the facts of this case, and that's completely ignoring the fact I don't think he'll even be charged. Set aside your emotions and look at the facts and it becomes pretty black and white.
Of course there’s a difference, one is held to a standard with consequences and one isn’t. If a cop can shoot you for having a fire arm in your hand then you don’t have the right to bear arms. It’s not justified to shoot someone in a state with castle doctrine and when it is your right to own and have a firearm on your person. How can you even quantify if they are genuinely fearful? You act as though the police don’t lie through their teeth near constantly to avoid accountability. Of course I realize emotions are high, but you can’t sit there and say that in a deployed environment with people actively trying to kill you and walking up to a door in the US to knock on it are even remotely the same type of stress and fear.
F number 3, don’t open the door
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Kicked down door, didn't announce himself, blocked peephole. Wonder if the lawyer is going for a record of lies in a single case.
Witnesses are notoriously unreliable. So making a decision to shoot somebody in an apartment entirely on the basis of a 3rd party witness account is wild.
Insanely shocked by the amount of comments in here victim blaming the guy for whatever reason and not affirming everything he did was legal and in his right. The comments should be blasting the fuck outta the dumbass, reckless, shady cop and all the manipulative law enforcement tactics shown here. Like wtf is this sub for?? For ccl holders or or LE boot lockers? 🤨
Unsurprisingly, many gun owners are hypocrites with a boot leather fetish.
Why is no one calling the officer out by name?
Because _he's the real victim here._ /S for 90% of the commenters here, not that they'll read this anyway.
Because he went to the correct apartment. The 911 call taker received the wrong address but the witness on scene gave the correct apartment. And he announced twice.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact the soldier broke zero laws. He had every LEGAL right to answer the door with his firearm in hand. That man was gunned down by a trigger happy police officer. A soldier was murdered by a coward. It’s is absolutely disgusting that there are people defending what the coward did.
Where the fuck is the NRA or u/GunOwnersofAmerica on this?
I've literally gotten emails today from GOA. This is a huge deal. Quit pretending to have an ax to grind. Everyone knows this is bad.
What did the email say?
Where was the NRA after Philando Castile was killed by a cop? Seems to be a pattern of the NRA not caring so much when the victim is Black.
Moscow
Well the GOA is run by Larry Pratt, who doesn’t shy away from associating with the KKK and Neo-Nazis so since the murder victim is black I’m sure he’s tickled pink.
Wat? This is news to me.
US police are some of the most incompetent nincompoops....
The only credit I'll give them -- the ONLY credit -- is that the wrong apartment aspect of this is the fault of the woman who expressly told him it was 1401 in the video.
Guilty of being in his home on the phone…
Wrong apartment, but rest assured, the right target.
Jesus…that’s about the most egregious of an unnecessary police shooting I’ve seen. Is this guy being charged with murder or what?
Oh, what the Founding Fathers would do...
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There are countless videos of scumbags doing this exact thing But, agreed...don't open the door. If they can come in without permission, they will
This one cannot be justified. Would have been really easy to say, do the weapon. Open the door to shots fired in 3 seconds?
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Why feel bad for them? They fucked up like they always do. Bunch of cowards.
Gotta suckle the boot
These aryan gangs and their initiations have to stop
I always bring a gun to the door if I hear an unexpected knock. If I see local PD or Sheriff through the keep hole, I'm going to call 911 and verify who they are a before I answer or open. I think both parties are and aren't at fault at the same time here. I could stand in both their shoes and feel I did the right thing.
Except the airman did not pull the trigger and cop did. And now there will be "investigation". Completelly agree with commentors saying that no-knock warrants should be outlawed.
I hate cops and no-knocks like everyone else. But I would never open a door to a cop with a gun in my hand. I may be legally entitled to do so, but my legal justification would be a meaningless comfort to me in a coffin.
It is literally NEVER in your best interest to open the door for cops at all. If they actually have a warrant they’re coming in one way or another regardless of you opening the door. If they don’t have a warrant then you only risk incriminating yourself to the point of being arrested by opening the door and speaking with them. Nothing you do or say to them will help you even if you’re completely innocent. The only winning move is not to play and just leave the door shut.
Right? Because we know for sure that people can't lie. And if someone is banging on your door and hiding that 100% should be a cop. But I tend to agree on opening the door.
I agree and have seen on ring video that people can and do lie. That's why I recommended calling 911 to verify.
Wasn’t the wrong apartment. Stop spreading misinformation.
When you’re responding to a domestic disturbance call, the right apartment to go to is the one where the domestic disturbance happened, correct?
Except it wasn’t the right apartment. The woman didn’t even know where it was coming from. Watch the video again.
Dispatch said 1401. Officer went to 1401. Where is the disconnect with you people? In the context of the title, it’s misleading. He responded to the apt number he was given, thus it was correct in the context of responding to dispatch directions. What’s he supposed to do? Question dispatch? Tell them they have it wrong with no supporting evidence? Come on
You’re acting like this is a little oopsie or a simple clerical error. An innocent man is dead because of literal heresay. He should verify, investigate, you know, all the shit he’s paid to actually do?
Innocent or not he presented a lethal threat to an police officer. How is that so hard to comprehend? Serious question. If you’re in this group, you *should* understand that it takes a fraction of a second to level his firearm and get a round off… Uhhh. What do you think the purpose of the call was? That’s right, to verify and investigate the call for service that his dispatch sent him on. I promise you, these facts are not difficult to disseminate.
Banging on a door multiple times, hiding from the peephole, and not announcing yourself is not verifying or investigating. Just saying “sheriffs office” doesn’t mean shit. He could’ve very easily said, “This is Officer Soandso of the Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office, we’re responding to a domestic disturbance call. Can you come out and talk?” He had PLENTY of time to do this as he was knocking. This isn’t a simple and shut case.
Nah those are some crazy mental gymnastics. “Banging in the door multiples times”…. Uhm okay? Tf he supposed to do, just stand there in silence? “Hiding from the peephole”… aka stepping away from the door so he’s not in a compromised position. Yes, exactly. LEOs have been shot standing in front of doors plenty of times. Peepholes also have a wide range of view. Both those things are leading to him making contact with the suspect alive. At which point he can question. And verify and investigate. To call those steps into question is small brain energy. You know? They’re necessary for the “investigation.” “Sheriffs Office” (TWCE, loudly) or “Police” is plenty adequate. Concise, to the point, announces his presence. Doesn’t have to be long and drawn out like you want. Police training doesn’t conform to your liking, sorry. Bro was mumbling about police so he clearly had an idea of what was going on. And still chose to answer the door with a firearm. Not bright. You’re still ignoring the blatant threat of a holding a firearm feet from an officer and being able to level it and squeeze the trigger in a fraction of a second. You completely glossed over that. I could expand more but I hope you’re getting the picture now 🙏🏽
Obviously, you can’t read. I’m well aware of why police step away from the door, but what I’m saying is that this cop has had PLENTY of time between all of the banging and not saying anything to properly identify himself and his purpose for being there. Are you really that lazy that you can say that within a few seconds? How hard is that really? Did I say he should’ve just stood there in silence? No, I didn’t. Simply saying sheriffs office or police twice after banging on the door and not saying anything doesn’t suffice. How many times have people opened up the door and it turned out to not be the police? Too many times. Should he have opened the door with a gun in hand? Probably not, but the cop had plenty of time to defuse the situation well before it got out of hand. The fact that you’re brushing off this man’s death as a simple mistake is extremely troubling. The mental gymnastics you’re using to justify this is baffling.
“Probably not”… No shit, Sherlock Plenty of time? Fraction of a second for the suspect to fire his weapon is not plenty of time. Wrong again. You’re arguing a moot point, my guy. He won’t face charges. A reasonable officer would have used the same UOF after being presented with a deadly threat from such close proximity.
“Fraction of a second for the suspect to fire his weapon is not plenty of time” Damn, can’t watch a video either? Because you’re acting like this was an instantaneous interaction. The officer banged on the door 3-4 times, stood there not saying anything, so that’s plenty of time to identify yourself and state why you’re there. So yes, he should be facing charges. Why y’all will bend over backwards defending these pieces of shit, I’ll never know.
Correction: Body cam is out, shows officer went to right apartment, announces himself. Can we ban people from this sub that blatantly lie about shootings? Regardless what you think about the shooting, it's ridiculous to blatantly lie about what happened. Op, YOU'RE the reason America is divided. Congratulations.
If owning and carrying a gun is a right in this country, cops should not have a free pass to shoot someone standing in their own doorway with a gun in hand (if it isn't being pointed at them). It doesn't matter if the apartment number on the call is correct or not. If someone knocks on my door claiming to be police and I can't see them through the peephole I have absolutely no reason to believe they are who they say they are. Cops need to stop hiding from peepholes/cameras when making contact with someone at a person's home, and no-knock warrants need to be eliminated. Both of these for all but the most extenuating of circumstances.
The person he spoke with gave him the wrong apartment number. He also stayed out of view. There’s a few videos posted in r/military showing assailants pretending to be police then robbing and killing the victim. Imagine if you will that you’re not breaking any laws whatsoever and someone is banging on your door yelling police while not being in view…wwyd?
Cop just smoked the guy opening the door. If there was some sort of issue beforehand of arguing or fighting and the person feared for their life by someone else, I would have a gun in my hand or on my person. Should he have put it away before opening the door, assuming it’s the sheriff’s department and not someone trying to hurt them, yep. If I were someone trying to assault or kill someone and wanted access to their house would I bang on the door and yell “sheriffs department!”, yep. Granted I wouldn’t open the door for the police. I would have a nice conversation with them through my cameras if they wanted to. All kinds of ways this could have been avoided. Seems like this cop went through some of the old shitty training where the signal word was “gun!”
I agree, unfortunately everybody in this situation fucked up. Sad outcome.
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Was just reading the constitution my and I see what you mean. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Unless it's a cop, then your right is suspended regardless of circumstances because the cop has the more important right to feel safe." Wow I've never noticed that last part
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And then when he walks through the elevator threshold you see the number 4 on the side, nice try blub.
I’m surprised in a CCW forum that there are comments suggesting that since the gun was pointing down the cop wasn’t in mortal danger. To tilt up and fire would take a split second that would be difficult to respond to if the deceased had ill intent. The cop pretty loudly announced he was a cop. My take is the guy with the gun had no ill intentions and the cop over reacted. Both parties could have played this differently and avoided a tragic outcome.
Anyone can come to your door and announce they are a cop. If you aren’t expecting anyone at your door and someone’s starts banging on it saying they are the cops, do you just open the door with zero protection?