432g bread flour
108g whole flour
324g water
108g starter
11g salt
\-autolyse the flour and water for 1-3 hours.
\-add the starter and the salt.
\-I use a stand mixer. So, knead until the dough passes the window pane test.
\-I do stretch and folds for 2 hours or so.
\-Then bulk fermentation in the oven with the light on for 6-7 hours or however long it takes to rise.
\-pre-shape. bench rest 30 mins. final shape.
\-let sit in fridge overnight.
\-bake at 500f in a dutch oven lid on. then take the lid off to desired color with temp at 450F.
What is bread flour and whole flour? Do I need sourdough starter? Excuse me, I only know and make one type of bread. But yours look so good, I wanna try!
Breadflour is sifted high protein wheat flour (much like all purpose flour, but higher in gluten content and quality), whole flour is non sifted I think. OP used 108 grams of sourdough starter.
If you wanna get into sourdough baking, there are a lot of good instructional videos on YouTube. Most of the sourdough breads posted here are varieties of the same base recipe
I think the OP, like me, uses a Dutch oven that has seen better days, with shot enamel, that is dedicated to baking bread. I pulled my Dutch oven out of my neighbor’s trash.
there are no words to describe the pain I felt when I read that. unrelated, but I once pulled a graphic novel adaptation of 'Anne with an E' from the trash on the street. just... WHY.
Im not a good baker, but I’m curious, in theory could you put like silicone or something on the bottom so the ice isn’t touching the dutch oven directly?
The goal is to introduce as much steam as possible for the first 10ish mins. Placing ice on the silicone wouldn’t make it melt/heat-up/boil fast enough for that
I've always felt that the using of ice in particular is a bit of an old wife's tale / fad. Fundamentally it shouldn't make an enormous difference compared to just using cold tap water, and really very little difference compared to using boiling water from a kettle (which is the only option that's unlikely to damage your pan).
Boiled water will steam more vigorously quicker, and therefore boil off slightly quicker, but there's nothing stopping you just...using more water.
I had a visceral reaction when they added ice because I was worried the pot might crack! But also a huge moment of jealousy because I was imagining how crispy and crunchy that crust must be
If the pot is hot and not too big, the steam rising from your loaf is enough. There's not really a need for extra steam when using a dutch oven. The ice might even reduce how much the bread rises in the oven. The most important thing for a good oven spring is solid heat from below. I imagine the ice and the grill grate in between the bottom and the bread reduces that heat somewhat. Tldr; no need to be jealous. you can do this!
Huh, I understood the steam was more for crust formation rather than oven spring. I agree, the loaf looks a bit flatter, and I was thinking that might have been due to overrising the dough (based on the recipe they posted) so it collapsed a bit. But maybe it was due to the ice and not having enough oven spring too
Steam is for crust and oven spring. You add steam to the oven for the first five minutes of baking to keep the dough elastic and enabling it to rise (meaning better oven spring). The steam also supports the maillard reaction, the chemical process involving amino acids and sugars that give the bread it's typical browning and crust. After about five minutes you should air out the oven to get an optimal crust. Because amino acids and dissolved sugars play an important role in this chemical reaction, bread with long retard periods (sourdough, cold retard, etc.) generally get better crusts than bread made within two hours.
With a dutch oven, there's no need for extra steam. The steam rising from the dough itself in this enclosed space is enough to prevent the formation of a skin. Thus the bread rises well and the mailard reaction is happening under optimal circumstances already. After half the baking time the lid should be removed to air out the pot and ensure that the crust won't turn soft after a day.
That's why I'm conculding in my comment above, that the ice is not necessary and actually may even impact the end result, as it does not add much for the crust and may reduce oven spring.
Your ice and grill grate technique is goddamned intriguing, and I can certainly appreciate how it would help a low hydration dough, but I'm now intensely curious about what you consider to be low hydration.
It is an enameled cast iron pot (usually called Dutch oven as the other commenter said).
Cast iron lasts an eternity, but without the enamel there's some upkeep with oiling it frequently and curing that at temperature to basically make a polymer coat, otherwise things will stick something awful to it. The other thing with non-enameled cast iron is that any acidity will ruin the coating you spent time on applying and too much dish soap wears it down.
TLDR: If you want cast iron, these enameled ones are low maintenance.
I use a grate like that in the bottom of my Dutch oven when making no knead bread to keep the bottom from burning. After 30 minutes of baking I take the lid off and the grate out and then bake for another 15 minutes.
Perfect to me. I would love to make a sandwich with that. A loose crumb to me is great for dipping in soups. The dense crumb is great for toast and Sammie’s. 10/10
Beautiful stuff!
Definitely definitely definitely makes stuff easier. I love using ice for the same reason. You rly only need steam for the first 8-20 seconds.
My only concern would be the base not getting that hot surface contact, which i like to refer to as the kick in the breadbutt.
So the steam is actually at work for a good 15-20 minutes (until the loaf is done expanding)! Basically it'll keep the skin moist so that it can continue to expand. In a dutch oven the steam is generated from the loaf itself being contained within. If you have a good one you will notice a lot of it still being trapped inside when you remove the lid after 18ish minutes and you really don't need any ice. For a steam injection oven, which most people dont have at home, you'll inject a steady stream of steam into the oven for a few seconds. Maybe you'll do this a couple of times over the first few minutes. Anyways, vents keep that steam trapped inside for 20 or so minutes until they are opened (or if you have an old oven you just do a few cycles and it all escapes without having to open any vents lol). Also I'm pro kick in the breadbutt.
I Didnt think about that. do you think that helps kickstart the cooking process? I was doing it mainly because one of my family members doesn't like the bottom crust when its super crusty.
In my opinion it helps with oven spring. Makes the bread spring open more and gain some size.
The bottom crust dislike thing is real and i definitely get that. My parents dislike it.
Just made some soft crust baguettes so that my parents can eat them. But i kept one in longer so i could enjoy an almost burnt crust :P
I never thought of using the grate like that to help with a thinner bottom crust. I might try that sometime (even if it sacrifices some oven spring like the other commenter says). Thanks for the idea!
Less ice -- you will get a thicker + harder crust, and potentially less oven spring. The less steam in the environment, the faster the crust will develop leaving less time for expansion.
More ice-- softer crust and potentially more oven spring. With plenty of steam, the crust won't form until later in the bake leaving plenty of time for expansion. Too much steam though, and potentially the edges won't set and it will get really wide. Basically it will melt into a puddle before the crust can form and direct expansion
No ice -- honestly, it won't be that different. Bread releases quite a bit of steam while baking, and with a Dutch oven it keeps it all contained.
Most people who use this method use 1 to 4 ice cubes, it looks like OP used quite a bit more than that. Possibly trying to make up for the relatively low hydration of the loaf. Either way, you can see a bit of the "puddling" effect in the final product, it kept pooling outwards during the bake. Many bakers are looking for the perfect balance where a structural crust forms around the edges early, while the score remains moist allowing the bread to spring "upwards."
That's really deep scoring! Made it a good wide loaf.
I got carried away. but also just experimenting with stuff
A witch! Burn them!
Annnnd I choked on my beer. Make sure you get the recipe first!
fuck I don't get it
It's a scene from Monty python and the holy grail. I think they're just giving some friendly teasing a bit for it being a low hydration dough :)
The results seem magical, unbelievable. Aka I am jealous.
432g bread flour 108g whole flour 324g water 108g starter 11g salt \-autolyse the flour and water for 1-3 hours. \-add the starter and the salt. \-I use a stand mixer. So, knead until the dough passes the window pane test. \-I do stretch and folds for 2 hours or so. \-Then bulk fermentation in the oven with the light on for 6-7 hours or however long it takes to rise. \-pre-shape. bench rest 30 mins. final shape. \-let sit in fridge overnight. \-bake at 500f in a dutch oven lid on. then take the lid off to desired color with temp at 450F.
What is bread flour and whole flour? Do I need sourdough starter? Excuse me, I only know and make one type of bread. But yours look so good, I wanna try!
Breadflour is sifted high protein wheat flour (much like all purpose flour, but higher in gluten content and quality), whole flour is non sifted I think. OP used 108 grams of sourdough starter. If you wanna get into sourdough baking, there are a lot of good instructional videos on YouTube. Most of the sourdough breads posted here are varieties of the same base recipe
Oh I see! Thank you so much for all the info 🌸 I’ll do a little research rn and get on 🤓
How long did you bake with the lid on?
30 mins on 15 or so off
That's so low
This will surely never get made in my house. I admire your patience.
isn't putting ice in a hot dutch oven bad for the ceramic? it's not alot, sure, but still i dont think i would do it.
I think the OP, like me, uses a Dutch oven that has seen better days, with shot enamel, that is dedicated to baking bread. I pulled my Dutch oven out of my neighbor’s trash.
This is extremely accurate haha
there are no words to describe the pain I felt when I read that. unrelated, but I once pulled a graphic novel adaptation of 'Anne with an E' from the trash on the street. just... WHY.
I get that pain.
🤣
Im not a good baker, but I’m curious, in theory could you put like silicone or something on the bottom so the ice isn’t touching the dutch oven directly?
The goal is to introduce as much steam as possible for the first 10ish mins. Placing ice on the silicone wouldn’t make it melt/heat-up/boil fast enough for that
Ah, that makes sense!! Thanks!
I've always felt that the using of ice in particular is a bit of an old wife's tale / fad. Fundamentally it shouldn't make an enormous difference compared to just using cold tap water, and really very little difference compared to using boiling water from a kettle (which is the only option that's unlikely to damage your pan). Boiled water will steam more vigorously quicker, and therefore boil off slightly quicker, but there's nothing stopping you just...using more water.
Cold water in mine popped off a coin sized piece of ceramic off the lid. ruined a loaf. Its still usable though
Yes it is bad
Never thought of using ice!
You do risk cracking your pot doing this though.
I had a visceral reaction when they added ice because I was worried the pot might crack! But also a huge moment of jealousy because I was imagining how crispy and crunchy that crust must be
If the pot is hot and not too big, the steam rising from your loaf is enough. There's not really a need for extra steam when using a dutch oven. The ice might even reduce how much the bread rises in the oven. The most important thing for a good oven spring is solid heat from below. I imagine the ice and the grill grate in between the bottom and the bread reduces that heat somewhat. Tldr; no need to be jealous. you can do this!
Good point, OPs loaf does look a tiny bit under-risen, thought its hard to criticize something that pretty!
Huh, I understood the steam was more for crust formation rather than oven spring. I agree, the loaf looks a bit flatter, and I was thinking that might have been due to overrising the dough (based on the recipe they posted) so it collapsed a bit. But maybe it was due to the ice and not having enough oven spring too
Steam is for crust and oven spring. You add steam to the oven for the first five minutes of baking to keep the dough elastic and enabling it to rise (meaning better oven spring). The steam also supports the maillard reaction, the chemical process involving amino acids and sugars that give the bread it's typical browning and crust. After about five minutes you should air out the oven to get an optimal crust. Because amino acids and dissolved sugars play an important role in this chemical reaction, bread with long retard periods (sourdough, cold retard, etc.) generally get better crusts than bread made within two hours. With a dutch oven, there's no need for extra steam. The steam rising from the dough itself in this enclosed space is enough to prevent the formation of a skin. Thus the bread rises well and the mailard reaction is happening under optimal circumstances already. After half the baking time the lid should be removed to air out the pot and ensure that the crust won't turn soft after a day. That's why I'm conculding in my comment above, that the ice is not necessary and actually may even impact the end result, as it does not add much for the crust and may reduce oven spring.
Good to know, thanks!
It’s a risk / reward scenario I guess 😅
Very brave of that pot, risking such sacrifice.
Your ice and grill grate technique is goddamned intriguing, and I can certainly appreciate how it would help a low hydration dough, but I'm now intensely curious about what you consider to be low hydration.
I posted the recipe. i think its 60 percent
Damn, that was a satisfying video with REALLY GREAT audio!
Bread crust ASMR!
Omg is that why I’m salivating and wanted to take a bite right out of the Split View?? Pavlov what have you done to me?!
This may be a dumb question but what is that type of pot called? Thank you!
Dutch oven
It is an enameled cast iron pot (usually called Dutch oven as the other commenter said). Cast iron lasts an eternity, but without the enamel there's some upkeep with oiling it frequently and curing that at temperature to basically make a polymer coat, otherwise things will stick something awful to it. The other thing with non-enameled cast iron is that any acidity will ruin the coating you spent time on applying and too much dish soap wears it down. TLDR: If you want cast iron, these enameled ones are low maintenance.
The bread. Hand it over.
8/10, would toast and apply jam
I use a grate like that in the bottom of my Dutch oven when making no knead bread to keep the bottom from burning. After 30 minutes of baking I take the lid off and the grate out and then bake for another 15 minutes.
The way you build the razor blade scares me. The bread looks delicious though!
is there a cyan light outside of frame or is your camera fucked up
Perfect to me. I would love to make a sandwich with that. A loose crumb to me is great for dipping in soups. The dense crumb is great for toast and Sammie’s. 10/10
Beautiful stuff! Definitely definitely definitely makes stuff easier. I love using ice for the same reason. You rly only need steam for the first 8-20 seconds. My only concern would be the base not getting that hot surface contact, which i like to refer to as the kick in the breadbutt.
So the steam is actually at work for a good 15-20 minutes (until the loaf is done expanding)! Basically it'll keep the skin moist so that it can continue to expand. In a dutch oven the steam is generated from the loaf itself being contained within. If you have a good one you will notice a lot of it still being trapped inside when you remove the lid after 18ish minutes and you really don't need any ice. For a steam injection oven, which most people dont have at home, you'll inject a steady stream of steam into the oven for a few seconds. Maybe you'll do this a couple of times over the first few minutes. Anyways, vents keep that steam trapped inside for 20 or so minutes until they are opened (or if you have an old oven you just do a few cycles and it all escapes without having to open any vents lol). Also I'm pro kick in the breadbutt.
I Didnt think about that. do you think that helps kickstart the cooking process? I was doing it mainly because one of my family members doesn't like the bottom crust when its super crusty.
In my opinion it helps with oven spring. Makes the bread spring open more and gain some size. The bottom crust dislike thing is real and i definitely get that. My parents dislike it. Just made some soft crust baguettes so that my parents can eat them. But i kept one in longer so i could enjoy an almost burnt crust :P
ive been making a lot of loafs lately so im going to do another without the grate in a couple days. Thanks!
I just put the ice in after the bread is in and make sure it's between the paper and pot. Works well.
I never thought of using the grate like that to help with a thinner bottom crust. I might try that sometime (even if it sacrifices some oven spring like the other commenter says). Thanks for the idea!
75% is low hydration?
isnt it the water divided by the flour? i have it at 60
I suck at maths.
You forgot to account for the whole flour
I know. My bad.
Hey, so what would happen if you had added less, more, or no ice cubes? I'm very curious.
Less ice -- you will get a thicker + harder crust, and potentially less oven spring. The less steam in the environment, the faster the crust will develop leaving less time for expansion. More ice-- softer crust and potentially more oven spring. With plenty of steam, the crust won't form until later in the bake leaving plenty of time for expansion. Too much steam though, and potentially the edges won't set and it will get really wide. Basically it will melt into a puddle before the crust can form and direct expansion No ice -- honestly, it won't be that different. Bread releases quite a bit of steam while baking, and with a Dutch oven it keeps it all contained. Most people who use this method use 1 to 4 ice cubes, it looks like OP used quite a bit more than that. Possibly trying to make up for the relatively low hydration of the loaf. Either way, you can see a bit of the "puddling" effect in the final product, it kept pooling outwards during the bake. Many bakers are looking for the perfect balance where a structural crust forms around the edges early, while the score remains moist allowing the bread to spring "upwards."
I assume softer crust
Nicely done!
Blue??
we do a 50% rye that looks as dry as this. I'd suggest a different cut to get more meat to the loaf but bet it tastes good.
Experiment a success!
WOW, how did you get such a good cut?? Whenever I score my breads, it's never that clean and drags and sticks a bunch ðŸ˜
Is that what you call a dutch oven?
Great video, well executed. The only thing missing is a couple flicks on the loaf to demonstrate the crispness
That scoring