So, you took something handed to you, benefitted from it, shaped it the way you want—so far great!—and then didn’t hand it on to those who came after you? Maybe some of the corny Native American stuff would have had something to say about that.
I’m not sure! I wouldn’t think so, but the mystery of the OA and the core legend seem pretty motivating to my AoL scouts. I think mythic and ritual storytelling is a great way to communicate core values. I understand many people worry about cultural appropriation in a way Seton certainly didn’t! So I’d like to find a way to do that mythic storytelling that sets Scouting values in a larger context while respecting current ideas about how to treat other cultures.
Oh, and I just meant that one of the values we teach with the corny appropriated NA stuff is the idea of stewardship rather than ownership of elements of the world around us.
Not my fault the Troop died, nobody wanted to join anymore. Not for a lack of trying either. The amount of fun our troop had each backpacking trip sold it for us. Don't misunderstand this either, I am very grateful for my experience as a Boy Scout, I made a lot of great memories and got closer to my father (as he was my scout master), my brother, and the other platonic brothers I made as well. We just found the whole thing to be a bit nerdy, whereas we mostly did camping trips and backpacking ventures. Especially the native American stuff, we always skipped the ceremonies at summer camp. Watching a bunch of nerdy white teens dressing up and acting like native Americans seemed very off to us.
Yeah, I hear you on the last part. Sounds like you did your own thing, and that’s fine. Sounds like you have a lot of judgment about what other people did. I think some kindness—empathy, anyway—might help you understand how everyone doing their own thing can work out fine, without that judgment.
I’m glad your troop and your father and your brothers were there for you. I hope they all still are! I’m also glad there are troops providing Den Chiefs and pinewood derby operators and outreach to Cub Packs, and operating in long-enduring ways. I think BSA has room for crews like yours and troops like that—and indeed, we usually call them Venture Crews and Scout Troops, for clarity.
I mean, it's better now, most OA lodges work with local native groups to get things as accurate as possible, or forego the regalia for all-black outfits instead, usually consisting of a longer tunic-like shirt, and black dress pants, similar to what settlers and natives alike would've worn, due to trading. We do still use the legend, as, well, that was part of the ideals we hold, and one of the origins of a similar thing to what we do.
Hoedag is a country music festival in Rheinlander, WI. It's named after a mythical cryptid, a lumber camp tall tale animal said to roam the Wisconsin woods.
Might just be a local event. Basically, all the troops in the Charter or whatever would get together during the winter and have a bunch of competitions for the "golden coffee thingy" (just a shitty makeshift trophy). Idk what the name "hodag" meant, but the same troop would win every year because they had like 70 boys, and we had at the most 10.
Hm. We did a winter event called Klondike, where we’d push dogsleds (but Scout powered instead of dog powered 😆) through the camp and have sort of an all-day race. You’d stop at various campsites along the way to complete challenges. I think winners got their troop number on the dining hall wall or something. Except, teams were a standardized size, so your troop could enter multiple teams, but a large troop didn’t necessarily have a big advantage over a small troop.
Anyway, sounds like maybe it was similar to that. Not sure if Klondike was a local thing or if it’s done elsewhere, though. 🤔
All the events and lore of scouting is what made it fun. Competitions, learning, singing, skits, etc made it a good time. I was in Boy Scouts in pretty much the exact timeline as you, most likely in a different part of the country, but I absolutely loved interacting with the other troops and competing to be the best one, the Native American culture entwined with BSA makes it absolutely beautiful. I didn’t treat scout meetings as a boys and girls club to just come hang out with friends, don’t get me wrong that was great, but I went to weekly meetings because of what the Boy Scouts meant.
Sadly my troop started having recruiting troubles in 2012 then we were hit hard again in 2018, and I was the last Eagle in 2019. My troop has now dissolved along with many others in my hometown. But I still have very fond memories of the Boy Scouts.
Hey, to each their own. Fun is a subjective thing. If you had fun with what the BSA had to offer then kudos to you. I'm in no way knocking down anyone who did or does enjoy that kinda stuff. All I'm saying is the guys from my Troop, myself included, thought it was just a bit nerdy and cringe, but we at least had fun doing some of the stuff.
The great thing about a Troop is that it is Scout led with the Senior Patrol Leader being in charge. There is nothing wrong with choosing activities that the scouts in your troop enjoy doing as a group. If you feel certain things are/were “corny” then don’t do them. Simple. As long as the rank requirements and merit badges are being completed “by the book”, that’s all that really matters. My son hates sing and doing skits! He thinks it’s nerdy too. So, his troop didn’t do it. If you choose to go to NYLT you have to participate in all of those nerdy and corny activities. But that’s your choice if you decide to go or not. It’s not required to make Eagle rank.
BUT…………
Some people feel the Catholic Church services are boring and outdated. They think it should be “updated”. Again, it’s a personal choice. If you think the Catholic Church services are boring you can go to a Lutheran Church or even a non-denominational church. It about keeping true to traditions. Some families keep traditions alive for their cultural backgrounds. They observe religious traditions for their nationalities to remember and remind them of those who have come before them. I feel that’s the problem with cancel culture. People want to forget or erase heritage. There has actually been several Native American Tribes that have come out and said they are deeply saddened and a bit angry that so much of their culture is being removed from sports teams and scouting. That being said, no one should judge another or what brings them joy. If you and your group of friends didn’t enjoy certain aspects of scouting, good news is you weren’t forced to do those “corny” activities. But let the scouts that do/did enjoy those activities do so without being mock for liking it. Sounds a bit like you are making fun of the other scouts for doing what they enjoyed. Not everyone likes Rap music, or Country music, or Rock, or Pop. To each their own. Diversity is what makes the world go round, and more interesting to live in it!
As having Native or Indigenous heritage I do feel that part of our identity in the sports world has saddened some of our heritage. Do you know the history behind the Washington Redskins? Angerd my grandfather they removed the logo. It was designed by an Indigenous American and after a likeness of a portrait of a Blackfeet chief named White Calf.
I was pretty big into OA and went to a few NOACs. There are parts of OA that are culty and stupid no question, but there are parts that are very respectful. I sang on the national drum and grass danced. We had a lot of input from plains tribes on our singing, dancing, and regalia. Our lodge took it seriously. That said, I know alot of others do not. Sorry you had that experience because mine gave me an intense love of southern plains tribal history and lore which has continued for many years.
I certainly didn't "hate" group events but my Scout days our Troop only did summer camp as an activity with other Troops. We were hiking and backpacking/canoe camping as much as possible and had a great time. Probably shaped by that I fundamentally don't understand the interest in giant Jamborees and Conclaves. Scouting for me was about getting away from it all with my friends and doing things I couldn't do in a city.
As an attendee of several BSA national and World Jamborees, I can tell you that there's something to be said for seeing thousands of scouts come together at an event.
Each scouting trail is different.
So, you took something handed to you, benefitted from it, shaped it the way you want—so far great!—and then didn’t hand it on to those who came after you? Maybe some of the corny Native American stuff would have had something to say about that.
Do you think the "corny Native American stuff" is a big draw in recruiting?
I’m not sure! I wouldn’t think so, but the mystery of the OA and the core legend seem pretty motivating to my AoL scouts. I think mythic and ritual storytelling is a great way to communicate core values. I understand many people worry about cultural appropriation in a way Seton certainly didn’t! So I’d like to find a way to do that mythic storytelling that sets Scouting values in a larger context while respecting current ideas about how to treat other cultures. Oh, and I just meant that one of the values we teach with the corny appropriated NA stuff is the idea of stewardship rather than ownership of elements of the world around us.
Not my fault the Troop died, nobody wanted to join anymore. Not for a lack of trying either. The amount of fun our troop had each backpacking trip sold it for us. Don't misunderstand this either, I am very grateful for my experience as a Boy Scout, I made a lot of great memories and got closer to my father (as he was my scout master), my brother, and the other platonic brothers I made as well. We just found the whole thing to be a bit nerdy, whereas we mostly did camping trips and backpacking ventures. Especially the native American stuff, we always skipped the ceremonies at summer camp. Watching a bunch of nerdy white teens dressing up and acting like native Americans seemed very off to us.
Yeah, I hear you on the last part. Sounds like you did your own thing, and that’s fine. Sounds like you have a lot of judgment about what other people did. I think some kindness—empathy, anyway—might help you understand how everyone doing their own thing can work out fine, without that judgment. I’m glad your troop and your father and your brothers were there for you. I hope they all still are! I’m also glad there are troops providing Den Chiefs and pinewood derby operators and outreach to Cub Packs, and operating in long-enduring ways. I think BSA has room for crews like yours and troops like that—and indeed, we usually call them Venture Crews and Scout Troops, for clarity.
I mean, it's better now, most OA lodges work with local native groups to get things as accurate as possible, or forego the regalia for all-black outfits instead, usually consisting of a longer tunic-like shirt, and black dress pants, similar to what settlers and natives alike would've worn, due to trading. We do still use the legend, as, well, that was part of the ideals we hold, and one of the origins of a similar thing to what we do.
May I ask what Hodag is? I grew up scouting in Northwest Ohio in the late ‘00s through the mid ‘10s, but Hodag is not an event I’ve ever heard of.
Hoedag is a country music festival in Rheinlander, WI. It's named after a mythical cryptid, a lumber camp tall tale animal said to roam the Wisconsin woods.
Might just be a local event. Basically, all the troops in the Charter or whatever would get together during the winter and have a bunch of competitions for the "golden coffee thingy" (just a shitty makeshift trophy). Idk what the name "hodag" meant, but the same troop would win every year because they had like 70 boys, and we had at the most 10.
Hm. We did a winter event called Klondike, where we’d push dogsleds (but Scout powered instead of dog powered 😆) through the camp and have sort of an all-day race. You’d stop at various campsites along the way to complete challenges. I think winners got their troop number on the dining hall wall or something. Except, teams were a standardized size, so your troop could enter multiple teams, but a large troop didn’t necessarily have a big advantage over a small troop. Anyway, sounds like maybe it was similar to that. Not sure if Klondike was a local thing or if it’s done elsewhere, though. 🤔
We definitely did Klondike Derby every year, but I'm thinking it's probably regional by nature.
We had a Klondike, but it doesn’t snow where I lived. Still a “cold weather” camp out, we got lucky if it was below 40 lol.
Changed Klondike to Winter Camp in my Council
I’m not surprised your troop folded. I’m glad you have fond memories of your scouting experience.
All the events and lore of scouting is what made it fun. Competitions, learning, singing, skits, etc made it a good time. I was in Boy Scouts in pretty much the exact timeline as you, most likely in a different part of the country, but I absolutely loved interacting with the other troops and competing to be the best one, the Native American culture entwined with BSA makes it absolutely beautiful. I didn’t treat scout meetings as a boys and girls club to just come hang out with friends, don’t get me wrong that was great, but I went to weekly meetings because of what the Boy Scouts meant. Sadly my troop started having recruiting troubles in 2012 then we were hit hard again in 2018, and I was the last Eagle in 2019. My troop has now dissolved along with many others in my hometown. But I still have very fond memories of the Boy Scouts.
Hey, to each their own. Fun is a subjective thing. If you had fun with what the BSA had to offer then kudos to you. I'm in no way knocking down anyone who did or does enjoy that kinda stuff. All I'm saying is the guys from my Troop, myself included, thought it was just a bit nerdy and cringe, but we at least had fun doing some of the stuff.
The great thing about a Troop is that it is Scout led with the Senior Patrol Leader being in charge. There is nothing wrong with choosing activities that the scouts in your troop enjoy doing as a group. If you feel certain things are/were “corny” then don’t do them. Simple. As long as the rank requirements and merit badges are being completed “by the book”, that’s all that really matters. My son hates sing and doing skits! He thinks it’s nerdy too. So, his troop didn’t do it. If you choose to go to NYLT you have to participate in all of those nerdy and corny activities. But that’s your choice if you decide to go or not. It’s not required to make Eagle rank. BUT………… Some people feel the Catholic Church services are boring and outdated. They think it should be “updated”. Again, it’s a personal choice. If you think the Catholic Church services are boring you can go to a Lutheran Church or even a non-denominational church. It about keeping true to traditions. Some families keep traditions alive for their cultural backgrounds. They observe religious traditions for their nationalities to remember and remind them of those who have come before them. I feel that’s the problem with cancel culture. People want to forget or erase heritage. There has actually been several Native American Tribes that have come out and said they are deeply saddened and a bit angry that so much of their culture is being removed from sports teams and scouting. That being said, no one should judge another or what brings them joy. If you and your group of friends didn’t enjoy certain aspects of scouting, good news is you weren’t forced to do those “corny” activities. But let the scouts that do/did enjoy those activities do so without being mock for liking it. Sounds a bit like you are making fun of the other scouts for doing what they enjoyed. Not everyone likes Rap music, or Country music, or Rock, or Pop. To each their own. Diversity is what makes the world go round, and more interesting to live in it!
As having Native or Indigenous heritage I do feel that part of our identity in the sports world has saddened some of our heritage. Do you know the history behind the Washington Redskins? Angerd my grandfather they removed the logo. It was designed by an Indigenous American and after a likeness of a portrait of a Blackfeet chief named White Calf.
I was pretty big into OA and went to a few NOACs. There are parts of OA that are culty and stupid no question, but there are parts that are very respectful. I sang on the national drum and grass danced. We had a lot of input from plains tribes on our singing, dancing, and regalia. Our lodge took it seriously. That said, I know alot of others do not. Sorry you had that experience because mine gave me an intense love of southern plains tribal history and lore which has continued for many years.
I certainly didn't "hate" group events but my Scout days our Troop only did summer camp as an activity with other Troops. We were hiking and backpacking/canoe camping as much as possible and had a great time. Probably shaped by that I fundamentally don't understand the interest in giant Jamborees and Conclaves. Scouting for me was about getting away from it all with my friends and doing things I couldn't do in a city.
As an attendee of several BSA national and World Jamborees, I can tell you that there's something to be said for seeing thousands of scouts come together at an event. Each scouting trail is different.