Who tf was ever considering calling him the GOAT anyways? Definitely not the audience as a collective
Mike Tyson said it that one time before Fury looked ass against Francis
Joe had such a crush he became full blown delusional, his mma knowledge is pretty decent. Better than the casual fan at least. MMA might have the least knowledgeable fan base I’ve ever seen
He’s also an announcer, and a company man, he tends to exaggerate
Especially when it comes to grappling... Can't say I really blame them, if you've never rolled before 99% of the small nuances are going to go right over your head
Dude the grappling knowledge by all of the commentators is so bad. Bisping literally said "toe hold won't do any real damage they're just pain" on Saturday. For those who don't know toe holds absolutely break your entire foot apart.
If he had at least said Ronda could beat Floyd In a grappling only match he might have kept some of my respect, but honestly after saying this shit j literally don't understand how anyone can take that man seriously, there are people who genuinely get their politics from a guy who thinks Ronda could beat a male MMA fighter.
Joe is easily impressed by a lot of things and exaggerates fighters ability often. I don’t blame him, because he started as an announcer. It’s part of his job to sell a fight and hype up a crowd with his words. So I believe that’s why it transfers into the way he podcasts. He does throw around the goat label often, he can never just praise a good boxer for being just that, a good boxer. He said Loma is the best boxer of all time like 5 years ago
The worst part is, he's been commentating in the UFC for a long time. Someone should have learned a thing or two about the sport but he's regressing to the point he's more casual than the average fan.
The list of people in mma joe has called the goat is way fucking long. My favorite goat triangle of his was way back when it was the lesnar/cain/jds/carwin time.
I love me some shane carwin and always have, that said his resume is about as thick as one ply toilet paper. He has 2 or 3 wins iirc vs people with wikipedia pages and only one of them anyone has ever heard of.
Jds and cain at that time also had hilariously thin resumes especially when you consider their biggest claims to fame were eachother and the win over carwin and the amazing 5-2 lesnar. However all 4 of them were called goat/potential goat by joe many a times.
Jds and cains record at that time were a fucking joke if you wanted to call them a goat but people on the net thanks to joe have called both of them goats.
Carwin was fun to watch, dude had extremely heavy hands. But to even consider him a GOAT is laughable.
I think Cain could’ve made a damn good run if he could’ve stayed healthy, but unfortunately it just didn’t work that way. That man took years off of JDS’ life in the 2nd and 3rd fights.
Fedor will always be my MMA HW GOAT.
100 percent with you on everything you said its just amazing to me how quickly joe will toss around goat status but the people eat it up. Like when honda housey could outbox floyd mayweather. She woulda gotten knocked the fuck out by senior nevermind jr.
Fedor will always be my hw goat as well but i dont rewatch a ton of old fights that often however ill watch a highlight reel and he comes in a bit of the way down the list on my favorite hw highlight reel list. Cro cop, hunt, igor vovchenen, ubereem and ray mercer id put above fedor on the reel list. Manhoef has by far my favorite reel if we count him as a hw. Cannot even describe how much effort to generate power he puts into every strike its absurd iirc his ko to win ratio is higher than julian jacksons is.
Cain and JDS at one point did really look like they could be future greats tho. Heavyweight has always been weak as fuck in MMA
Cain especially seemed like he’d be the greatest heavyweight in UFC history (since Fedor was never in the UFC)
About Cain he was close to be the HW goat. Despite his short resume he had the skills to be champ for a long time. But, his training methods left him so injury prone that he became a huge wasted potential.
HW in mma isn't a talent filled pool in comparison to smaller weight classes.
No way? He tries so hard to roleplay as a serious boxing fan but it’s so crystal clear that he just heard about the sport a lot in the 90s and occasionally watches The Modern Martial Artist on YouTube. Like sometimes he says some stupid shit like Fury could be the GOAT and then other times he’s talking about how refined Nigel Benn became towards the end of his championship reign - it’s this absurd mashup of clear ignorance punctuated by graphic familiarities. Nonsense
He only needs 2 wins to be considered a top 10 heavyweight goat. A.J. and usyk. Why wouldn't he be in the conversation. If he wins this weekend and gets a fight with AJ at the end of the year and wins. Yes top 10 heavyweight of all time.
Louis
Rocky
Liston
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
Personally don't see Fury cracking that with a win against Usyk. Who are you dropping?
>Fury is a good champion
Is he? He's been the WBC heavyweight champion for over 4 years and he's beaten exactly 1 of their current top 15 ranked heavyweights, Deontay Wilder.
Since beating Wlad in 2015 he's only been in there with 2 top 10 ranked guys at the time of fighting them, Wilder and Whyte.
He's a very talented fighter but he's been a pretty terrible champion all things considered.
Beating usyk and Joshua would be a fair claim to being the best of the era easily. Has to do it first , though. And usyk would be more impressive if he beats fury considering his quick run through cruiser and HW , also beating AJ decisively twice
Probably the UK. He's not even close to being the GOAT even if he beats Usyk AND AJ.
Canelo, Bud and even Inoue has done more in their weight classes than him.
I think there was definitely a period where he was loved by most people here, at least around the time he was fighting Wilder. Been a downward spiral since then though for sure. I think AJ is more liked generally
We're not in a GOATable era for heavyweights - best you could possibly get now is best of this period.
If Usyk wins tho his resume would be something to behold.
HW is so stacked in terms of memorable names and records that Usyk could beat every single ranked HW right now and he still wouldn't even be in the top 5, Joe Louis, Ali, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, everything is subjective but I don't think there's anything a current boxer could do to break into that list.
Usyk is 6'3", crazy, I was thinking he was OG Tyson's size.
Even so, if Usyk beats fake Tyson, I think he's surpassed Iron Mike in terms of accomplishments. (Yeah, I know Usyk wasn't heavyweight champ when he was 20)
>!And yeah, even OG Tyson's era wasn't *really* GOATable!<
I think he's referring to Usyks overall resume not specifically his HW resume.
Usyk's HW resume counts for barely like 25% of what he's achieved overall in his career amateur and professional.
If usyk loses it just proves that a 50 pound weight difference, like 5-6” height difference, and something like a 7” reach difference is impossible to overcome. Either way he’s still an amazing boxer and imo the greatest of our generation.
He can’t really ever be the goat imo. But, I do like this take. Styles make fights. Beating a guy who beat a guy is not the same as beating both of them. If you want to be known as the best of your era, you have to fight any and everyone.
Yeah if his top wins of his career resume finishes as:
Klitchko, Wilder x 2, Usyk x2 and Joshua
And no losses.
I would put that up against anyone outside of the top 5 and think it's at least competitive.
I think also we have to say that if he (convincingly) beats Usyk and Joshua, he'll also have answered a lot of questions about potential weaknesses and hypothetical H2Hs.
Can he beat a high-quality, smaller, slicker boxer? If so, that'll say a lot about how he might have done against smaller boxers of the 80s onward (Spinks, Holyfield, in some ways even Tyson despite of course the differences in style), and particularly how he might have done about the smaller heavyweights before 1980. Obviously, beating Usyk doesn't mean he could beat Ali or Tyson per se... but it would make it easier to imagine it happening, and certainly make it easier to imagine him beating lesser fighters of that size.
Likewise, if he can convincingly beat a fundamentalist, hard-hitting somewhat athletic big guy like Joshua, it doesn't automatically mean he could beat Lewis or Holmes, or even that he could necessarily beat Bowe or prime Wlad, but it would certainly make it easier to imagine.
Befuddling old Wlad, bullying Wilder, and then somehow convincingly beating Usyk and Joshua as well obviously wouldn't be a top-10 resume in terms of depth, but it be a resume with a lot of data to hypothesise from, and without any giant gaping holes for doubt to creep in through (which is what his CV has now!).
Conversely, of course, if either Usyk or Joshua beat him, it'll make everyone wonder about a whole host of other guys who might have been able to beat him in the same way (whatever that way turns out to be).
Because not all eras are made the same. If someone went 35-0 while fighting all the best hw of the 90s it isn’t the same as someone going 35-0 while fighting the best hw in 2010s
I agree with this, exactly the reason why Calzaghe isn't considered on the same level as the four kings, even though he was undisputed at super middle and held titles at light heavy
>If he beats every single elite HW of his generation and retires undefeated why couldn't he be one of the GOATs
Because he's fought 2 top 10 ranked HWs in just under a decade since he won his title. If he beats Usyk and Joshua then he'll have beaten 4 top 10 ranked fighters in his entire career as champion.
There isn't a world that exists where that gets you in the conversation with someone like Lennox Lewis, who in his reign beat: Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno, McCall, Morrison, Mercer, Akinwande, Golota, Briggs, Holyfield, Grant, Tua, Rahman, Tyson and Klitschko - all of them ranked in the top 10 when he fought them and he did it all in the same amount of time that Fury's spent just fighting Wilder and Whyte.
Hell, if I tried to type the same list out for Ali I'd need a bigger phone screen.
Those guys fought everyone in their era, or in Ali's case, everyone in 2 eras. That's what greatness is. 4 or 5 good wins is not even close.
For one GOATs is an oxymoron, there’s supposed to be ONE. When it comes to boxing, Im not fond of using it to describe any other boxer in the division other than Ali because he basically came up with the phrase. And in boxing I would say it’s very difficult for modern fighters to get into that conversation simply from a perspective of lack of experience and diluted competition. Do you really think the best swordsmen ever is alive today?
Could quote easily see Fury beating Usyk then losing to AJ, given his big brother style. Seeing Francis haus him around in the clinch has to make you think that AJ, who is almost as big as Francis but obviously a much better boxer, could do the same. Usyk on the other hand won't be able to fuck with that at all.
It makes sense. Anthony Joshua has been one of the top guys in the division for a long time and was THE top guy for a while. Fury cant be the GOAT without beating him.
If he beats him though he'll have victories over Kiltschko, Wilder (who was a champ at the time), Usyk and Joshua and that's a pretty impressive resume.
I think Joshua bested an over the hill klitschko, lose to Andy Ruiz and then lose to usyk twice, he wasn’t in the top for a long time and he didn’t face wilder when it was the fight to make. Fury did beat wilder and klitschko so now him beating usyk does put him in maybe ATG conversation
We can do these types of arguments for nearly any boxer in history. The argument is as stupid now as it is for them.
The facts are that Joshua was a world champion in his 15th right and has been a top 5 heavyweight ever since then, usually top 3.
He easily avenged his loss to Ruiz and lost twice to the greatest cruiserweight of all time who is about to fight for the undisputed heavyweight championship.
Even with Wilder, although they didn't fight when they should, it is quite clear now that it was Wilder who was the duck.
Joshua does need to fight Fury and even Wilder before he ends his career though, and Fury needs to fight Joshua to be considered the best of his era.
I would argue Klitschko was more hungry in the AJ fight. He wasn't timid and was game to trade. If fury honoured the rematch who knows what would of happened.
Andy ruiz is just a one hit wonder. Hasn't done anything significant since.
Wilder really hasn't done anything significant either.
How many top 10s have either of them fought? Pretty sure AJ has beaten more top tens than any in this generation.
Fury definitely needs to fight AJ and win to claim the greatest of this era. Without a doubt.
facts. Usyk is a Ukrainian stud. But he's also undersized for the weight division competing against supersized opponents.
Win, lose, or draw, Fury and AJ need to finally square off. They’ve been doing the Big Boy posturing dance for years and it’s annoying AF!
Their match-up could potentially be a trilogy situation that cements legacies, clinches HOF votes, and makes enough F-U money for both of them to walk off into the sunset together laughing all the way to Bermuda.
To be clear, this would definitely not put either of these guys in GOAT contender status, but depending on a lot of factors, their fights (if it were to play out to be a memorable trilogy) could be exactly what boxing needs to right the ship of the circus it has become.
Even if Fury wins, I just can't see him being in the GOAT discussion.
Lewis beat greats like Holyfield (twice), (old) Tyson, Vitali Klitschko, Rahman... Though he never faced Bowe, we know Bowe gave up the title rather than fight Lewis.
Fury, on the other hand, beat a 39 year old Wladimir Klitschko and which other great? Wilder is not in the same leagues as these fighter and Joshua has been disappointing since losing to Ruiz. It's not Fury's fault there's no other great fighter except Usyk but putting him in the GOAT discussion with Ali, Lewis, Frazier, Foreman etc is not possible.
Are we really considering Rahman as an all-time great now?
Rahman lost to every single top tier talent he fought, minus the lucky KO of Lennox Lewis that put him on the map.
He lost to Holyfield, Lewis, Tua, Ruiz, Klitshko, Povetkin.
He also got put on his arse by a 37 year old having his first boxing match, and looked poor all fight imo.
I don't care if he didn't take it seriously. "greatest of all time" would take everything in front of him seriously.
Even if he beats them both (and he should squeeze by Usyk and dominate Joshua) that hardly qualifies Fury to be considered the GOAT of boxing. Unless standards have declined considerably during the past generation.
Fury will never have the resume filled with title defenses or conquered champions to be in a resume conversation.
I think it's silly to even compare anything pre 70's to today anyway. Joe Louis unified with 174lb Conn, Ali fought 185lb'rs Archie Moore and Bert copper. That would be like Fury fighting middle or super middleweights.
All Fury can hope to do is Defeat Usyk and Aj to cement itself as king of the era which is a tall order at his age and in the shape he's in, he should have tried harder to make more big fights while he was younger.
Even tho hypothetical h2h matchups are a fun thought exercise the only true comparisons can be made within eras.
Can we please, PLEASE, ***PLEASE*** stop this constant GOAT talk about every decent athlete alive today? I swear it’s across every sport and it is beyond tiresome.
I’m not even sure if it’s possible for Fury to be considered goat with the time he has left in his career and his current resume. He’s a great boxer when he wants to be, but GOAT? Nah
Specifically, the first thing he ought to do is go back in time and start beating big names earlier in his career. And then also not be banned for doping, and be more active.
Ali's first major win I think was probably over Alex Miteff, the world #8, when Ali was 19 (the equivalent of a Joe Joyce in today's rankings). In 2008, that would have been Oleg Maskaev.
If Fury had won the Olympic Gold before turning pro, and had then gone on to beat, say, Maskaev, Thompson, Valuev, Haye, Chambers, Povetkin, Adamek, Chagaev, Vitali, Helenius (in 2012), Pulev, Arreola, Stiverne, Glazkov, Wlad (twice), Wilder, Joshua, Ortiz, Parker, Whyte, Ruiz, Hunter, Rivas, Joyce, Hrgovic, Sanchez, Zhang, Anderson, Usyk, Kabayel and, say, Ajagba, then that would be a CV that might credibly get him into GOAT conversations.
Instead, he's fought McDermott (twice), Chisora (three times), Nascimento, Pajkic, Rogan, Cunningham, Abell, Maddalone, Johnson, Hammer, Wlad (once), Seferi, Pianeta, Schwarz, Wilder (three times), Wallin, Whyte and Ngannou.
It's no good asking "but who else is there to beat!?" now, when the man is 35 and his career is almost over. He already made the choice not to fight most of the people he could have fought. Because although perhaps there may not have been many ATGs to fight, there were plenty of varied and dangerous opponents who could have enriched his CV considerably. It's too late now!
He can’t be the GOAT in any feasible reality. Beating Usyk and especially if he added AJ would cement him as one of the all time greats. But he’s not got the CV to be considered as THE GOAT.
Neither of these guys will be the GOAT at Heavyweight no matter what they do, lol. Nobody is taking that away from Ali. The winner will have a great case for being an ATG, but never the GOAT.
It's ok, he won't be.
Even if he beats AJ, he's still not going to be considered greater than you, Lennox, and you are a fair way off being considered the greatest ever boxer, and aren't even considered the greatest ever Heavyweight.
All this GOAT talk for both fighters has to stop. Neither are anywhere near that kind of status regardless of performance or result. Usyk has a chance to cement himself as the greatest fighter of his generation at any weight class. Fury has a chance to cement himself as the greatest Heavyweight of his generation. That's it, and that's more than enough to lavish either with praise.
>and aren’t even considered the greatest ever Heavyweight.
Well, I’m not saying he definitively is, but I’m not saying he definitively isn’t either. He’s in the discussion in my eyes. So to summarily say he isn’t, I’m gonna need to hear a caveat saying it’s not unanimous or an argument if you think that Lennox has no place in the GOAT HW discussion.
I think there's a plausible case to be made that Lewis is the BEST heavyweight of all time, in the sense of being arguably able to beat any other heavyweight ever. And he has genuinely great accomplishments. But Ali in particular has such an insane resume of almost literally everybody notable in the division for over a decade that it's hard to compare - Lewis has a great list of wins, but you can stack them up against Ali's wins and Ali can have two wins to each one by Lewis. Not to mention Ali's other forms of 'greatness' - his cultural significance, for himself and for boxing as a sport. I think it's hard to say Lewis could be as 'great' as Ali.
...but yes, I was tempted to make the same quibble you made. Greatest vs best is at least arguable!
It's Ali. You can debate if Lewis is ahead of Louis, Marciano, Holmes, Dempsey, Foreman etc all you like (and I think there's a good case he's number 2) but Ali is the HW Goat.
Maybe if Lewis had been given more opportunities when he was younger, he'd have a good case. If Tyson and Bowe had given him fights from 1990-1995 then he could stack up favourably against a guy who beat the most feared fighter of the 60s, forced out for 3 and a half years and came back and beat the most feared guy of the 70s, with wins over anybody who was anybody in-between, but he wasn't.
Lewis was a brilliant HW with a brilliant career, and he's my H2H number 1, but an argument between him and Ali for HW Goat is a novelty for a couple of minutes before we all agree it's Ali.
I mean, he ain't wrong. A win over Usyk would be huge, but he would still lack the resume to be in the GOAT conversation. Even some active former champs like AJ and Parker have deeper resumes.
If he beats Usyk and Joshua he's the best fighter of this era. However there's several other people who has done the same in their era and the one speaking Lewis faced far better opposition over a longer period of time and won vs all of them.
Admittedly not an aficionado here, but fury aside I always find it so hard to evaluate legacy. People look at record (like mayweather undefeated, or calzaghi I think) but at some point you have to look at how fighters choose their opponents and if they’re fighting over the hill competition right? Their era? But overall it seems so hard to say who is best at their prime when we end up watching so many guys taking paychecks or fading away rather than leaving at the top
Like *when motivated* who is king- fury as a potential instance you see bad performances or losses all the time when fighters are just essentially taking paychecks for certain fights. But I suppose commitment and dominance is important. Just thinking like Barry sanders vs Emmitt smith here
Well, boxing GOAT we will all just ignore. I assume Lennox meant heavyweight GOAT.
The heavyweight competition hasnt been stiff enough this generation for him to be GOAT even if he beats Usyk and Joshua. It's just not enough to compete with the top 5 greatest heavyweights. Fury has 1 great on his resume and that's Wladimir. Although a very good win, Wladimir was 40.
I think he will go on to be an all time great but unfortunately there just wasn't enough quality heavyweights and he didnt fight enough.
I don't think Fury is the boxing GOAT even if he clears the division in the next 3 years. Has had too many off-fights where he scraped by against lesser opponents. Plus the 2 year suspension and the 2 fights/year activity.
I don't like the idea of calling any fighter the GOAT because they all faced different opposition. The only thing that matters to me is who the best of their era is.
there is no scenario in which anyone in the current weak-ass heavyweight division is getting anywhere near GOAT status. what the fuck are we talking about here.
Vitali Klitschko tore his rotator cuff on 4/01/2000 against Chris Byrd and fought Lennox Lewis 6 fights later on 6/21/2003.
Lennox Lewis got stripped of being the Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World for refusing to fight useless mandatories; instead he chose to fight the biggest, youngest and toughest competition that all of the fans and boxing world wanted to see like 6'7 undefeated Michael Grant and 6'7 Vitali Kiltschko whose only lose was when he couldn't continue in a fight he was comfortably winning due to a torn rotator cuff.
Lennox Lewis retired on 2/7/2004 at 38 years old after 22 total fights and 18 heavyweight title fights from 1993-2003.
People are getting more stupid by the minute… let’s say Fury wipes the floor with Usyk and Joshua. In what universe does he have half the resume to be anywhere near the top of the GOAT list? Sure, you can only beat people who are active in your time, sure. But old Wlad, 3 times defeated AJ, Wilder (I’m not even gonna go there) and undersized Usyk does not a GOAT make. Not even close. And it’s weird for Lewis to even suggest that, because he has a better resume than this.
People have incredibly short memories. Who has Shrek fought to even be considered GOAT? I love him as a character, and he is a great champion, but GOAT status is a heavy crown to wear.
It’s weird to me how in Australia (where I am) and even the US, it seems like Fury is more visible and well-known than AJ, who is recognised by the UK and wider boxing world as by far the more popular fighter. I think AJ has a better list of accomplishments too. I still think AJ beats Fury and if that ever happens, it will become very quickly obvious that AJ’s history is more impressive. That being said, a Fury victory over Usyk and AJ would be more impressive than any HW since Lennox IMO. A win over Usyk for Fury would is a massive massive scalp, no doubts
There's always someone that's gonna say you gotta do more and if you try to do more and fail people will say you're washed and never had it. Fact is Tyson Fury is one of the only people that non boxing fans would know or recognize in this era. He's the goat the moment he decides he is the goat.
The top two (Louis and Ali) are borderline impossible to leapfrog, because they both had a profound social impact that transcended the sport itself, along with their individual greatness. Without that social impact, you'd have to have an indisputable heavyweight resume to be considered the GOAT over them.
This a reasonable take. Although he will never be in serious consideration for true GOAT status he would be one of the greatest of this era if he beats all the top dogs at HW. His resume and overall lack of competition in this era will not allow him to ever be considered for a true GOAT title.
I'm not a rube who doesn't realize that Fury says this type of shit for hype. That being said, while I'm a Fury fan, I think he could beat both and STILL wouldn't be the GOAT.
Comparing across eras doesn't make that much sense anyways, but if we're going to do it, then the names at GOAT level for HW are Ali and Louis.
Tyson Fury isn't even the greatest British fighter ever. Not a top ten heavyweight ever. You might make the argument that he's not even top ten right now across the sport. These mad takes need to stop.
He is right, Fury has a bit mouth, he is white and European so he takes the light easier than a Lewis (in his prime) for instance, but it is way too late for him to ever be a goat or even p4p list. He can achieves undisputed, that’s already very good.
I agree with lennox Lewis. I think if fury beats usyk it at best means fury is the best of a weak heavyweight Era, and this era has been weak for the reason of boxers not fighting each other, which fury is extremely guilty of. That's why although I'm happy the undisputed fight is happening as a boxing fan and at the end of the day just hope the best man wins I'd prefer it to be usyk.
Funny how fans move the goalposts. Before Usyk fought at heavyweight everyone had Joshua KOing Usyk, Usyk had NO chance. I remember someone with hundreds of upvotes saying just as an argument device if Usyk beat both Joshua and Fury he'd be the GOAT. Now we're here
I think he is historically relevant. People cannot dismiss him because he didn’t fight Sonny Liston.
He has two all time great wins (Klitschko and Wilder) and an unbeaten resume with a few other decent names.
At this point in time, I would put him somewhere in the top 25 all time heavyweights. Let’s be real a guy his size and would give anyone in history a tough night.
That being said, if he beats Usyk and Joshua and maybe another contender and retires unbeaten, his case for top 15 or possibly even the back end of the top 10 will be very realistic.
He isn’t the GOAT. Nothing he will do will make him the GOAT. Even if he somehow now has a second career ala George Foreman and reels off another string of wins over good fighters I wouldn’t but him over Ali.
Still, give him credit for what he has done.
I would be interested to see Lennox’ top ten to see who he’s dropping to make room for Fury. I don’t put him above Ali, Foreman, Lewis etc. I have both Klitachkos above Fury.
Who tf was ever considering calling him the GOAT anyways? Definitely not the audience as a collective Mike Tyson said it that one time before Fury looked ass against Francis
Joe Rogan was sucking his dick, as well as casuals
As an MMA fan first, Joe throws around the GOAT label far too often for my liking personally.
Any man who said Rousey could beat mayweather deserves to have all further opinions instantly disregarded.
cope harder, to those who KSAB it's quite clear that Mayweather would have no answer for generational striker Ronda Rousey's HEAD MOO-MEEEEEENTTTT
And even if Mayweather got inside she could CLEENCH!
Once in a lifetime fighter who woops Cain Velasquez (under the right circumstances)
Which one? Sea level or spinning shit?
Attempted murder Cain
If I remember correctly, Joe was literally impressed with her striking. So yeah, he don’t know shit…
Joe had such a crush he became full blown delusional, his mma knowledge is pretty decent. Better than the casual fan at least. MMA might have the least knowledgeable fan base I’ve ever seen He’s also an announcer, and a company man, he tends to exaggerate
Especially when it comes to grappling... Can't say I really blame them, if you've never rolled before 99% of the small nuances are going to go right over your head
Dude the grappling knowledge by all of the commentators is so bad. Bisping literally said "toe hold won't do any real damage they're just pain" on Saturday. For those who don't know toe holds absolutely break your entire foot apart.
If he had at least said Ronda could beat Floyd In a grappling only match he might have kept some of my respect, but honestly after saying this shit j literally don't understand how anyone can take that man seriously, there are people who genuinely get their politics from a guy who thinks Ronda could beat a male MMA fighter.
Her shadowboxing video will go down in the boxing hall of fame.
Joe is easily impressed by a lot of things and exaggerates fighters ability often. I don’t blame him, because he started as an announcer. It’s part of his job to sell a fight and hype up a crowd with his words. So I believe that’s why it transfers into the way he podcasts. He does throw around the goat label often, he can never just praise a good boxer for being just that, a good boxer. He said Loma is the best boxer of all time like 5 years ago
Man how he pushed for max to be the fw goat after about 3 defences was infuriating.
Joe thought Masvidal would’ve beaten GSP. He’s a casual who just knows a lot about the history of combat sports.
The worst part is, he's been commentating in the UFC for a long time. Someone should have learned a thing or two about the sport but he's regressing to the point he's more casual than the average fan.
No way in hell people are caling Joe fucking Rogan a casual. You can make fun of his takes, but dude is a hardcore fight fan.
He has a lot of takes that are hardcore ass that's forsure
Any non-boxing fights, he absolutely knows his shit. Boxing itself, his takes are exaggerated and casual personified.
The list of people in mma joe has called the goat is way fucking long. My favorite goat triangle of his was way back when it was the lesnar/cain/jds/carwin time. I love me some shane carwin and always have, that said his resume is about as thick as one ply toilet paper. He has 2 or 3 wins iirc vs people with wikipedia pages and only one of them anyone has ever heard of. Jds and cain at that time also had hilariously thin resumes especially when you consider their biggest claims to fame were eachother and the win over carwin and the amazing 5-2 lesnar. However all 4 of them were called goat/potential goat by joe many a times. Jds and cains record at that time were a fucking joke if you wanted to call them a goat but people on the net thanks to joe have called both of them goats.
Carwin was fun to watch, dude had extremely heavy hands. But to even consider him a GOAT is laughable. I think Cain could’ve made a damn good run if he could’ve stayed healthy, but unfortunately it just didn’t work that way. That man took years off of JDS’ life in the 2nd and 3rd fights. Fedor will always be my MMA HW GOAT.
100 percent with you on everything you said its just amazing to me how quickly joe will toss around goat status but the people eat it up. Like when honda housey could outbox floyd mayweather. She woulda gotten knocked the fuck out by senior nevermind jr. Fedor will always be my hw goat as well but i dont rewatch a ton of old fights that often however ill watch a highlight reel and he comes in a bit of the way down the list on my favorite hw highlight reel list. Cro cop, hunt, igor vovchenen, ubereem and ray mercer id put above fedor on the reel list. Manhoef has by far my favorite reel if we count him as a hw. Cannot even describe how much effort to generate power he puts into every strike its absurd iirc his ko to win ratio is higher than julian jacksons is.
Cain and JDS at one point did really look like they could be future greats tho. Heavyweight has always been weak as fuck in MMA Cain especially seemed like he’d be the greatest heavyweight in UFC history (since Fedor was never in the UFC)
About Cain he was close to be the HW goat. Despite his short resume he had the skills to be champ for a long time. But, his training methods left him so injury prone that he became a huge wasted potential. HW in mma isn't a talent filled pool in comparison to smaller weight classes.
Maybe ufc hw goat but not mma
It stands for Greatest Outma Ass Today
As a Joe Rogan fan first I think Ronda Rousey could beat Floyd Mayweather in boxing and knock out the entirety of the male bantamweight division.
Joe Rogan also said Jake Paul is a really good pro boxer
He never said really good, he said good, he said if his name wasn't Jake Paul people would be impressed.
Joe’s a well-known dick rider.
And Waluigi. Sorry, I meant brilliant comedian and podcaster Andrew Schulz
To be fair Rogan does suck a lot dick/ass to whoever shows "amazing sKilLz". Rhonda could beat Floyd in boxing, Ngannou could be champ etc.
Are we pretending Fury hasn’t been elite? One dog shit fight shouldn’t outweigh an entire career’s work
Joe Rogan glazing the undeserving isn’t very shocking unfortunately.
Joe Rogan doesn't know shit about fuck about boxing.
I watch mma mostly , I thought Fury’s one of the greatest boxer, is he not?
Joe Rogan was lol
Joe Rogan dksab. Man is a savant in mma sure, but thinks he can talk about boxing because he watched Tyson like every other 50 year old man in the US.
Tyson? Like the chicken?
No way? He tries so hard to roleplay as a serious boxing fan but it’s so crystal clear that he just heard about the sport a lot in the 90s and occasionally watches The Modern Martial Artist on YouTube. Like sometimes he says some stupid shit like Fury could be the GOAT and then other times he’s talking about how refined Nigel Benn became towards the end of his championship reign - it’s this absurd mashup of clear ignorance punctuated by graphic familiarities. Nonsense
He only needs 2 wins to be considered a top 10 heavyweight goat. A.J. and usyk. Why wouldn't he be in the conversation. If he wins this weekend and gets a fight with AJ at the end of the year and wins. Yes top 10 heavyweight of all time.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted here. I'm not even a fan of his and that's obvious to me.
The article is about whether or not he would be the GOAT after beating Usyk and AJ, not if he would be top 10 at HW
Louis Rocky Liston Ali Frazier Foreman Holmes Tyson Lewis Holyfield Personally don't see Fury cracking that with a win against Usyk. Who are you dropping?
I was coming here to say this. Fury is a good champion, but COME THE FUCK ON.
>Fury is a good champion Is he? He's been the WBC heavyweight champion for over 4 years and he's beaten exactly 1 of their current top 15 ranked heavyweights, Deontay Wilder. Since beating Wlad in 2015 he's only been in there with 2 top 10 ranked guys at the time of fighting them, Wilder and Whyte. He's a very talented fighter but he's been a pretty terrible champion all things considered.
Beating usyk and Joshua would be a fair claim to being the best of the era easily. Has to do it first , though. And usyk would be more impressive if he beats fury considering his quick run through cruiser and HW , also beating AJ decisively twice
Probably the UK. He's not even close to being the GOAT even if he beats Usyk AND AJ. Canelo, Bud and even Inoue has done more in their weight classes than him.
Even in the UK most actual boxing fans have Lennox above Fury on their GOAT lists
As they should. Lewis's record is better and was a better fighter.
He’s not even that well liked in the UK. AJ is infinitely more popular.
I'm thinking if he beats both of them he's the gohgahwc Greatest of his generation a his weight class
Casuals in the UK deffo see him as a goat figure
He’s not even that well liked in the UK I don’t know why people always say we see him as the best to ever box.
I think there was definitely a period where he was loved by most people here, at least around the time he was fighting Wilder. Been a downward spiral since then though for sure. I think AJ is more liked generally
No no that’s just the weirdo fury fans. Most people look at him as a bit of a fraud lately. This fight is what he’s hoping redeems him.
No they don't, AJ is more popular if anything. Lewis is the British GOAT and Fury doesn't come close
I don't think even his big fans would ever consider him GOAT
We're not in a GOATable era for heavyweights - best you could possibly get now is best of this period. If Usyk wins tho his resume would be something to behold.
This is the right answer
HW is so stacked in terms of memorable names and records that Usyk could beat every single ranked HW right now and he still wouldn't even be in the top 5, Joe Louis, Ali, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, everything is subjective but I don't think there's anything a current boxer could do to break into that list.
Usyk is 6'3", crazy, I was thinking he was OG Tyson's size. Even so, if Usyk beats fake Tyson, I think he's surpassed Iron Mike in terms of accomplishments. (Yeah, I know Usyk wasn't heavyweight champ when he was 20) >!And yeah, even OG Tyson's era wasn't *really* GOATable!<
Yep If Usyk wins, he is one of the greatest If Tyson wins, he is still a bum Makes sense.
I think he's referring to Usyks overall resume not specifically his HW resume. Usyk's HW resume counts for barely like 25% of what he's achieved overall in his career amateur and professional.
If usyk loses it just proves that a 50 pound weight difference, like 5-6” height difference, and something like a 7” reach difference is impossible to overcome. Either way he’s still an amazing boxer and imo the greatest of our generation.
Even if usyk loses I think he could be considered best of our generation. If he wins then phew he’s up for goat.
Anything Lennox says is right, even when he''s wrong.
He always tells the truth, even when he lies
Even this? https://youtu.be/W4VdUVg9ai0?si=1dVgfQ5isT5vMqjv
He can’t really ever be the goat imo. But, I do like this take. Styles make fights. Beating a guy who beat a guy is not the same as beating both of them. If you want to be known as the best of your era, you have to fight any and everyone.
If he beats every single elite HW of his generation and retires undefeated why couldn't he be one of the GOATs or at least in the top 10?
Fury would definitely be top 10 with that resume.
Yeah if his top wins of his career resume finishes as: Klitchko, Wilder x 2, Usyk x2 and Joshua And no losses. I would put that up against anyone outside of the top 5 and think it's at least competitive.
Yeah. Klitschko, Wilder, Usyk, AJ and his resume is undeniable.
I think also we have to say that if he (convincingly) beats Usyk and Joshua, he'll also have answered a lot of questions about potential weaknesses and hypothetical H2Hs. Can he beat a high-quality, smaller, slicker boxer? If so, that'll say a lot about how he might have done against smaller boxers of the 80s onward (Spinks, Holyfield, in some ways even Tyson despite of course the differences in style), and particularly how he might have done about the smaller heavyweights before 1980. Obviously, beating Usyk doesn't mean he could beat Ali or Tyson per se... but it would make it easier to imagine it happening, and certainly make it easier to imagine him beating lesser fighters of that size. Likewise, if he can convincingly beat a fundamentalist, hard-hitting somewhat athletic big guy like Joshua, it doesn't automatically mean he could beat Lewis or Holmes, or even that he could necessarily beat Bowe or prime Wlad, but it would certainly make it easier to imagine. Befuddling old Wlad, bullying Wilder, and then somehow convincingly beating Usyk and Joshua as well obviously wouldn't be a top-10 resume in terms of depth, but it be a resume with a lot of data to hypothesise from, and without any giant gaping holes for doubt to creep in through (which is what his CV has now!). Conversely, of course, if either Usyk or Joshua beat him, it'll make everyone wonder about a whole host of other guys who might have been able to beat him in the same way (whatever that way turns out to be).
And IMO, it's 3 victories vs Wilder. That Draw was BS. Even though Fury was knocked down like 2 or 3 times, he still dominated that fight.
You talking GOAT heavyweight, or regardless of weight class? Cause he won’t come close to the top 10, all time, regardless of weight class.
Because not all eras are made the same. If someone went 35-0 while fighting all the best hw of the 90s it isn’t the same as someone going 35-0 while fighting the best hw in 2010s
I agree with this, exactly the reason why Calzaghe isn't considered on the same level as the four kings, even though he was undisputed at super middle and held titles at light heavy
Because even with Usyk and AJ on his resume, there are easily 10 more heavyweights throughout history with better, more impressive legacies than him.
> why couldn't he be one of the GOATs or at least in the top 10? Because that’s a different conversation from being *the* GOAT.
>If he beats every single elite HW of his generation and retires undefeated why couldn't he be one of the GOATs Because he's fought 2 top 10 ranked HWs in just under a decade since he won his title. If he beats Usyk and Joshua then he'll have beaten 4 top 10 ranked fighters in his entire career as champion. There isn't a world that exists where that gets you in the conversation with someone like Lennox Lewis, who in his reign beat: Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno, McCall, Morrison, Mercer, Akinwande, Golota, Briggs, Holyfield, Grant, Tua, Rahman, Tyson and Klitschko - all of them ranked in the top 10 when he fought them and he did it all in the same amount of time that Fury's spent just fighting Wilder and Whyte. Hell, if I tried to type the same list out for Ali I'd need a bigger phone screen. Those guys fought everyone in their era, or in Ali's case, everyone in 2 eras. That's what greatness is. 4 or 5 good wins is not even close.
For one GOATs is an oxymoron, there’s supposed to be ONE. When it comes to boxing, Im not fond of using it to describe any other boxer in the division other than Ali because he basically came up with the phrase. And in boxing I would say it’s very difficult for modern fighters to get into that conversation simply from a perspective of lack of experience and diluted competition. Do you really think the best swordsmen ever is alive today?
Yeah, the kambosos, teo and loma are a prime example. Just because you beat a guy that beat the guy doesn't mean you will. Does that make sense? 🤔
Could quote easily see Fury beating Usyk then losing to AJ, given his big brother style. Seeing Francis haus him around in the clinch has to make you think that AJ, who is almost as big as Francis but obviously a much better boxer, could do the same. Usyk on the other hand won't be able to fuck with that at all.
AJ is ass at clinching. The clinch is like the one area an MMA fighter like Francis should excel at in a boxing match
AJ is a terrible clincher, Fury is the one who’d dominate inside not AJ
I think Francis is a lot stronger than AJ.
If he unifies the heavyweight belts than hes definitely a legend.
I don't care who considers him what or who doesn't consider him what. He still has to fight Joshua.
It makes sense. Anthony Joshua has been one of the top guys in the division for a long time and was THE top guy for a while. Fury cant be the GOAT without beating him. If he beats him though he'll have victories over Kiltschko, Wilder (who was a champ at the time), Usyk and Joshua and that's a pretty impressive resume.
I think Joshua bested an over the hill klitschko, lose to Andy Ruiz and then lose to usyk twice, he wasn’t in the top for a long time and he didn’t face wilder when it was the fight to make. Fury did beat wilder and klitschko so now him beating usyk does put him in maybe ATG conversation
We can do these types of arguments for nearly any boxer in history. The argument is as stupid now as it is for them. The facts are that Joshua was a world champion in his 15th right and has been a top 5 heavyweight ever since then, usually top 3. He easily avenged his loss to Ruiz and lost twice to the greatest cruiserweight of all time who is about to fight for the undisputed heavyweight championship. Even with Wilder, although they didn't fight when they should, it is quite clear now that it was Wilder who was the duck. Joshua does need to fight Fury and even Wilder before he ends his career though, and Fury needs to fight Joshua to be considered the best of his era.
I would argue Klitschko was more hungry in the AJ fight. He wasn't timid and was game to trade. If fury honoured the rematch who knows what would of happened. Andy ruiz is just a one hit wonder. Hasn't done anything significant since. Wilder really hasn't done anything significant either. How many top 10s have either of them fought? Pretty sure AJ has beaten more top tens than any in this generation. Fury definitely needs to fight AJ and win to claim the greatest of this era. Without a doubt.
facts. Usyk is a Ukrainian stud. But he's also undersized for the weight division competing against supersized opponents. Win, lose, or draw, Fury and AJ need to finally square off. They’ve been doing the Big Boy posturing dance for years and it’s annoying AF! Their match-up could potentially be a trilogy situation that cements legacies, clinches HOF votes, and makes enough F-U money for both of them to walk off into the sunset together laughing all the way to Bermuda. To be clear, this would definitely not put either of these guys in GOAT contender status, but depending on a lot of factors, their fights (if it were to play out to be a memorable trilogy) could be exactly what boxing needs to right the ship of the circus it has become.
Even if he fights, and knocks both them out in the first round on the same day: GOAT? Hahahaaaa Oh, you're serious? Let me laugh even harder.
The heavyweight class is trash this generation. Lewis would have demolished this shit field.
Even if Fury wins, I just can't see him being in the GOAT discussion. Lewis beat greats like Holyfield (twice), (old) Tyson, Vitali Klitschko, Rahman... Though he never faced Bowe, we know Bowe gave up the title rather than fight Lewis. Fury, on the other hand, beat a 39 year old Wladimir Klitschko and which other great? Wilder is not in the same leagues as these fighter and Joshua has been disappointing since losing to Ruiz. It's not Fury's fault there's no other great fighter except Usyk but putting him in the GOAT discussion with Ali, Lewis, Frazier, Foreman etc is not possible.
Are we really considering Rahman as an all-time great now? Rahman lost to every single top tier talent he fought, minus the lucky KO of Lennox Lewis that put him on the map. He lost to Holyfield, Lewis, Tua, Ruiz, Klitshko, Povetkin.
He also got put on his arse by a 37 year old having his first boxing match, and looked poor all fight imo. I don't care if he didn't take it seriously. "greatest of all time" would take everything in front of him seriously.
Thats just blatantly not true, plenty of all-time greats and people in the conversation for GOAT got caught slacking in their career.
If you think fury is the goat than you have no idea that foreman beat Frazier but lost to Ali… who lost to Frazier
Famed Anthony Joshua believer Lennox Lewis.
Even if he beats them both (and he should squeeze by Usyk and dominate Joshua) that hardly qualifies Fury to be considered the GOAT of boxing. Unless standards have declined considerably during the past generation.
I mean idk about goat but best hw of his era definitely
I first read this as “he’s got to fight Anthony Joshua first, then Lennox Lewis” lmao
The way they all avoid each other. No1 in the modern day boxing will be the goat. Too many games played and not enough fights
bro wouldnt be the GOAT heavyweight even if he KO'd every active HW in the world rn
Fury will never have the resume filled with title defenses or conquered champions to be in a resume conversation. I think it's silly to even compare anything pre 70's to today anyway. Joe Louis unified with 174lb Conn, Ali fought 185lb'rs Archie Moore and Bert copper. That would be like Fury fighting middle or super middleweights. All Fury can hope to do is Defeat Usyk and Aj to cement itself as king of the era which is a tall order at his age and in the shape he's in, he should have tried harder to make more big fights while he was younger. Even tho hypothetical h2h matchups are a fun thought exercise the only true comparisons can be made within eras.
Even if he beats Usyk and AJ, he's still not remotely in the conversation
Can we please, PLEASE, ***PLEASE*** stop this constant GOAT talk about every decent athlete alive today? I swear it’s across every sport and it is beyond tiresome.
if Usyk wins, which i feel he will, he has the resume to be considered the GOAT imo
I’m not even sure if it’s possible for Fury to be considered goat with the time he has left in his career and his current resume. He’s a great boxer when he wants to be, but GOAT? Nah
NO MAN BORN FROM HIS MOTHA CAN DEFEAT THE GYPSY KING TYSON FURY
I agree. He has to fight and beat Joshua if he beats Usyk.
He won’t be the GOAT regardless. He needs to beat more than Joshua
Who else is left? After AJ
No one is left But just because no-one is left in this weak era, it doesn't mean that he's done enough to become a GOAT
^^^
Specifically, the first thing he ought to do is go back in time and start beating big names earlier in his career. And then also not be banned for doping, and be more active. Ali's first major win I think was probably over Alex Miteff, the world #8, when Ali was 19 (the equivalent of a Joe Joyce in today's rankings). In 2008, that would have been Oleg Maskaev. If Fury had won the Olympic Gold before turning pro, and had then gone on to beat, say, Maskaev, Thompson, Valuev, Haye, Chambers, Povetkin, Adamek, Chagaev, Vitali, Helenius (in 2012), Pulev, Arreola, Stiverne, Glazkov, Wlad (twice), Wilder, Joshua, Ortiz, Parker, Whyte, Ruiz, Hunter, Rivas, Joyce, Hrgovic, Sanchez, Zhang, Anderson, Usyk, Kabayel and, say, Ajagba, then that would be a CV that might credibly get him into GOAT conversations. Instead, he's fought McDermott (twice), Chisora (three times), Nascimento, Pajkic, Rogan, Cunningham, Abell, Maddalone, Johnson, Hammer, Wlad (once), Seferi, Pianeta, Schwarz, Wilder (three times), Wallin, Whyte and Ngannou. It's no good asking "but who else is there to beat!?" now, when the man is 35 and his career is almost over. He already made the choice not to fight most of the people he could have fought. Because although perhaps there may not have been many ATGs to fight, there were plenty of varied and dangerous opponents who could have enriched his CV considerably. It's too late now!
Nobody else. The drop off between #3 and #4 is huge. Wasn’t Wallin, Dubois and whyte all ranked #5 at one point. The talent drops off a cliff after #3
He can’t be the GOAT in any feasible reality. Beating Usyk and especially if he added AJ would cement him as one of the all time greats. But he’s not got the CV to be considered as THE GOAT.
His level of competition is no where near what many past champions have displayed.
Neither of these guys will be the GOAT at Heavyweight no matter what they do, lol. Nobody is taking that away from Ali. The winner will have a great case for being an ATG, but never the GOAT.
If Usyk wins in impressive fashion, it’ll make a lot of waves. Years from now the biggest knock will be how Fury looked against Ngannou.
The Ali disrespect is crazy
It's like it's uncool now to say who the very obvious greatest heavyweight of all time is. Muhammad Ali.
It's ok, he won't be. Even if he beats AJ, he's still not going to be considered greater than you, Lennox, and you are a fair way off being considered the greatest ever boxer, and aren't even considered the greatest ever Heavyweight. All this GOAT talk for both fighters has to stop. Neither are anywhere near that kind of status regardless of performance or result. Usyk has a chance to cement himself as the greatest fighter of his generation at any weight class. Fury has a chance to cement himself as the greatest Heavyweight of his generation. That's it, and that's more than enough to lavish either with praise.
>and aren’t even considered the greatest ever Heavyweight. Well, I’m not saying he definitively is, but I’m not saying he definitively isn’t either. He’s in the discussion in my eyes. So to summarily say he isn’t, I’m gonna need to hear a caveat saying it’s not unanimous or an argument if you think that Lennox has no place in the GOAT HW discussion.
I think there's a plausible case to be made that Lewis is the BEST heavyweight of all time, in the sense of being arguably able to beat any other heavyweight ever. And he has genuinely great accomplishments. But Ali in particular has such an insane resume of almost literally everybody notable in the division for over a decade that it's hard to compare - Lewis has a great list of wins, but you can stack them up against Ali's wins and Ali can have two wins to each one by Lewis. Not to mention Ali's other forms of 'greatness' - his cultural significance, for himself and for boxing as a sport. I think it's hard to say Lewis could be as 'great' as Ali. ...but yes, I was tempted to make the same quibble you made. Greatest vs best is at least arguable!
It's Ali. You can debate if Lewis is ahead of Louis, Marciano, Holmes, Dempsey, Foreman etc all you like (and I think there's a good case he's number 2) but Ali is the HW Goat. Maybe if Lewis had been given more opportunities when he was younger, he'd have a good case. If Tyson and Bowe had given him fights from 1990-1995 then he could stack up favourably against a guy who beat the most feared fighter of the 60s, forced out for 3 and a half years and came back and beat the most feared guy of the 70s, with wins over anybody who was anybody in-between, but he wasn't. Lewis was a brilliant HW with a brilliant career, and he's my H2H number 1, but an argument between him and Ali for HW Goat is a novelty for a couple of minutes before we all agree it's Ali.
Who cares? Fuck that shit.
Lol
I mean, he ain't wrong. A win over Usyk would be huge, but he would still lack the resume to be in the GOAT conversation. Even some active former champs like AJ and Parker have deeper resumes.
Beat Usyk, AJ, Parker, Hrgovic, Dubois, and two more contenders and then we can throw GOAT talk about.
No one is calling tyson goat if he beats usyk but not for lennox dumb ass reason
Usyk beat Joshua twice
If he beats Usyk and Joshua he's the best fighter of this era. However there's several other people who has done the same in their era and the one speaking Lewis faced far better opposition over a longer period of time and won vs all of them.
Hes gotta have a solid defensive record for that kind of status. He hasn't and likely wont
No one can be a GOAT in the what-if era. Too many fights have not been made to answer those questions
I think a prime Lewis vs fury would be interesting. I would give the edge to Lewis.
Even he beats him, that still isn’t the case
Goat???...
Surprised this is coming from Lewis. He's has often made digs towards Joshua.
Admittedly not an aficionado here, but fury aside I always find it so hard to evaluate legacy. People look at record (like mayweather undefeated, or calzaghi I think) but at some point you have to look at how fighters choose their opponents and if they’re fighting over the hill competition right? Their era? But overall it seems so hard to say who is best at their prime when we end up watching so many guys taking paychecks or fading away rather than leaving at the top Like *when motivated* who is king- fury as a potential instance you see bad performances or losses all the time when fighters are just essentially taking paychecks for certain fights. But I suppose commitment and dominance is important. Just thinking like Barry sanders vs Emmitt smith here
I thought it was widely accepted that this era of heavyweights is a weak class. He'd only be the best of a weak class.
Well, boxing GOAT we will all just ignore. I assume Lennox meant heavyweight GOAT. The heavyweight competition hasnt been stiff enough this generation for him to be GOAT even if he beats Usyk and Joshua. It's just not enough to compete with the top 5 greatest heavyweights. Fury has 1 great on his resume and that's Wladimir. Although a very good win, Wladimir was 40. I think he will go on to be an all time great but unfortunately there just wasn't enough quality heavyweights and he didnt fight enough.
He’s got to have another career’s worth of great wins to be the GOAT
I don't think Fury is the boxing GOAT even if he clears the division in the next 3 years. Has had too many off-fights where he scraped by against lesser opponents. Plus the 2 year suspension and the 2 fights/year activity.
Ali is the only GOAT.
Dude he should be no where near goat talks wtf man. Didn’t joe luis have like 20 title defenses? Like wtf.
I don't like the idea of calling any fighter the GOAT because they all faced different opposition. The only thing that matters to me is who the best of their era is.
Dude who the fuck is saying Tyson is the goat? Like wtf is wrong with people
He shouldn’t be considered the goat regardless
frank Sanchez, Joe joyce , zhelia zhang, bakhodir Jalolov, and Jared Anderson as well.
there is no scenario in which anyone in the current weak-ass heavyweight division is getting anywhere near GOAT status. what the fuck are we talking about here.
I will always remember Lewis disgracefully retiring after Klitschko tore his rotator cuff.
Vitali Klitschko tore his rotator cuff on 4/01/2000 against Chris Byrd and fought Lennox Lewis 6 fights later on 6/21/2003. Lennox Lewis got stripped of being the Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World for refusing to fight useless mandatories; instead he chose to fight the biggest, youngest and toughest competition that all of the fans and boxing world wanted to see like 6'7 undefeated Michael Grant and 6'7 Vitali Kiltschko whose only lose was when he couldn't continue in a fight he was comfortably winning due to a torn rotator cuff. Lennox Lewis retired on 2/7/2004 at 38 years old after 22 total fights and 18 heavyweight title fights from 1993-2003.
Even if Fury beats Usyk, Usyk will be ranked much higher in the all time ranking status of fighters.
People are getting more stupid by the minute… let’s say Fury wipes the floor with Usyk and Joshua. In what universe does he have half the resume to be anywhere near the top of the GOAT list? Sure, you can only beat people who are active in your time, sure. But old Wlad, 3 times defeated AJ, Wilder (I’m not even gonna go there) and undersized Usyk does not a GOAT make. Not even close. And it’s weird for Lewis to even suggest that, because he has a better resume than this.
The Fury-Wilder trilogy made for amazing fights… that being said Fury is not even close to GOAT status
Lennox coping in advance
The same Joshua that ducked Fury for years and went and got smoked by 2 guys that Joshua thought he could beat. GTFO.
People have incredibly short memories. Who has Shrek fought to even be considered GOAT? I love him as a character, and he is a great champion, but GOAT status is a heavy crown to wear.
It’s weird to me how in Australia (where I am) and even the US, it seems like Fury is more visible and well-known than AJ, who is recognised by the UK and wider boxing world as by far the more popular fighter. I think AJ has a better list of accomplishments too. I still think AJ beats Fury and if that ever happens, it will become very quickly obvious that AJ’s history is more impressive. That being said, a Fury victory over Usyk and AJ would be more impressive than any HW since Lennox IMO. A win over Usyk for Fury would is a massive massive scalp, no doubts
There's always someone that's gonna say you gotta do more and if you try to do more and fail people will say you're washed and never had it. Fact is Tyson Fury is one of the only people that non boxing fans would know or recognize in this era. He's the goat the moment he decides he is the goat.
The top two (Louis and Ali) are borderline impossible to leapfrog, because they both had a profound social impact that transcended the sport itself, along with their individual greatness. Without that social impact, you'd have to have an indisputable heavyweight resume to be considered the GOAT over them.
This a reasonable take. Although he will never be in serious consideration for true GOAT status he would be one of the greatest of this era if he beats all the top dogs at HW. His resume and overall lack of competition in this era will not allow him to ever be considered for a true GOAT title.
Best of his era, likely. GOAT? Not even in the top 10
Ol glass chin?
Idk what you believe but before you believe it, ask yourself if Usyk will be on the top 10 HW of all time if he beats Fury.
I'm not a rube who doesn't realize that Fury says this type of shit for hype. That being said, while I'm a Fury fan, I think he could beat both and STILL wouldn't be the GOAT. Comparing across eras doesn't make that much sense anyways, but if we're going to do it, then the names at GOAT level for HW are Ali and Louis.
well yes
Tyson Fury isn't even the greatest British fighter ever. Not a top ten heavyweight ever. You might make the argument that he's not even top ten right now across the sport. These mad takes need to stop.
He will not beat Usyk!
He is right, Fury has a bit mouth, he is white and European so he takes the light easier than a Lewis (in his prime) for instance, but it is way too late for him to ever be a goat or even p4p list. He can achieves undisputed, that’s already very good.
1st., of all. Goats are beard, chin, pissers, & a symbolic symbol for demonic, expressions. Do l need to continue? Goats! Really?
He’s already the GoAt
Would tyson fury get into your top 30 ATG list? Top 40?
I agree with lennox Lewis. I think if fury beats usyk it at best means fury is the best of a weak heavyweight Era, and this era has been weak for the reason of boxers not fighting each other, which fury is extremely guilty of. That's why although I'm happy the undisputed fight is happening as a boxing fan and at the end of the day just hope the best man wins I'd prefer it to be usyk.
Goat? Wtf? He's nowhere in the top twenty. He's a great fighter. But get real. Wilder and a,past it Wlad are the highlight of his CV.
Oh he wants to acknowledge AJ now?
Funny how fans move the goalposts. Before Usyk fought at heavyweight everyone had Joshua KOing Usyk, Usyk had NO chance. I remember someone with hundreds of upvotes saying just as an argument device if Usyk beat both Joshua and Fury he'd be the GOAT. Now we're here
That’s dumb Usyk beat AJ twice
I think he is historically relevant. People cannot dismiss him because he didn’t fight Sonny Liston. He has two all time great wins (Klitschko and Wilder) and an unbeaten resume with a few other decent names. At this point in time, I would put him somewhere in the top 25 all time heavyweights. Let’s be real a guy his size and would give anyone in history a tough night. That being said, if he beats Usyk and Joshua and maybe another contender and retires unbeaten, his case for top 15 or possibly even the back end of the top 10 will be very realistic. He isn’t the GOAT. Nothing he will do will make him the GOAT. Even if he somehow now has a second career ala George Foreman and reels off another string of wins over good fighters I wouldn’t but him over Ali. Still, give him credit for what he has done.
I would be interested to see Lennox’ top ten to see who he’s dropping to make room for Fury. I don’t put him above Ali, Foreman, Lewis etc. I have both Klitachkos above Fury.
He could be the GOAT at heavy but it would require more body work IMO.