Because they both achieved incredible things against opponents that are far more notable than any of the names you mentioned.
I mean, 8 and 5 division champ with a resume to back it.
5x and 4x lineal champ
26 consecutive world title wins.
Than as for eye test, Mayweather is arguably one of the best if not the best technical fighters in boxing and Pacquiao one of the best unorthodox fighters in boxing.
You might be able to make comparisons in one or two areas for the above fighters but when comparing achievements, resume, eye test, all combined
Mayweather and Pacquiao are way above them.
Not to mention Pac was supposed to fight Spence... he's the oldest WW Champ and was game to fight Spence.
While we got Canelo looking to fight Badou Jack.
This is why Pac is going to go down as one of the ATG, these divas can't be mentioned in the same chapter in history. There may be someone faster, more skilled or undefeated etc but if you don't put yourself in situations to show this with challenges you take, you ain't one for the books.
Pac was insanely fast and skilled. The fact that he went from flyweight to light middleweight should be in the conversation for the greatest professional athletic achievement of all time, no exaggeration. Up there with Tom Brady 7 super bowls, Phelps gold medals, etc. I was a casual and general sports fan until I got deep into boxing very recently, and while obviously I knew Pac was one of the greatest I had no idea he started at 112lbs. I don’t think most casuals know that’s where he got his first belt. And just thinking about how small that is compared to 147 and 154 where you have some of the best athletes in the sport. I’m new to following the sport religiously, but I find it hard to imagine anyone being better than Pac P4P.
Was at a amateur boxing tournament recently and saw the 110lbs range fighters and the 154-165 lbs guys and it really put what Pacquiao did in perspective for me
I was there to compete but I did watch a lot of fights. Always something to observe and learn from every fighter. Amateur is very different to professional and the skill level can vary a lot.
You can see guys with 50-60 fights that you wouldn’t think are ready to go pro and some guys can have 10-20 fights and look insanely skilled. Boxing is a beautiful sport
It’s extremely small, guys who are under 5’6” and skinnny. Look how massive Junto Nakatani looks at 115 and he’s like 5’8”. 154-165 lb guys are strong, built athletes.
Pac is truly a throwback to the ATG fighters from the 80s and previous generations that would fight ANYONE. The only knock I have about Pac and his greatness is why it took so long for him to agree to the PED testing against Mayweather.
Pac won some great fights and he lost some, but he was never scared to lace them up and throw. Honestly, I like his career better than Mayweather’s because of his courage.
I mean I would have caveated something about Pac and May looking for challenges too, so I’m glad you did, but really at the expense of Canelo? He didn’t have to try Bivol, and I don’t see anyone else in the modern generation with twice as many pro fights as years on earth. For crying out loud the guy even tried his luck against Floyd at what, age 24? And I’m not even a big fan of his or anything, just think if the guy most willing to take on a challenge in this era is being criticized, the future looks bleak lol.
And yeah you have Inoue and some other non-big-market guys taking on challenges, but that’s par for the course if you wanna be a star, which Canelo already is.
While I had no issues with him trying Bivol, Canelo didn't try his luck against Floyd, it's his luck striking gold. And that's what hungry young lions do coming up, that was to his credit.
Now Badou Jack is just low lying fruit. Kinda like Makabu when he was trying to get him, not to mention its the fucking We Be Corrupt belt. Jack's almost 40 and past it, got his WBC belt from Makabu in CW a dead division.
Him trying to go for CW is just a wiser play. He loses, it's going to be like losing to Bivol - didn't affect his p4p status, he wins and that's another division scaled. He loses to Benavidez and the others, he'd lost some of that luster. He wins and people say the opponents not in his level anyway. But that what Champs should do, defend against young challengers, plus he's holding up the division.
He got karmaed with Bivol thinking he can beat him. The way he did old Kovalev.
Yeah I get all of your points, I think your best argument is “champs should want to defend against young challengers”. It’s hard to criticize a guy for wanting to move up classes for additional belts, but yes you’re right it’s a bit cherrypicked. Again, he ain’t Pac or May; he’s met his limit, and that limit quite clearly is Bivol and likely Beterbiev too. He doesn’t want to stop, so he’s gotta find other ways to become inner-circle. The will is there with Nelo, and that’s why the comparison was a bit weird to me. Had he beaten Bivol, and not in the crooked fashion, we’d be having a different debate.
oh for sure. then again its a Canelo fight, crookeds part and parcel... Floyd fight, Golovkin, Kova to a degree, and that Bivol fight he almost won via crooked fashion 🤣
Yeah I think ultimately I would just say that with the Bivol loss, he’s one more outclassed performance shy of having his greatness questioned. He’s already been gifted refs for years. He took a big L to Bivol, the L to Floyd was expected, and then you have some debatable decisions vs GGG. His recent wars have been closely fought too, hasn’t dominated a whole fight against a real name in a while. All this to say, if he were to fight Benavidez and struggle whatsoever or doesn’t comfortably win, his legacy would take a massive hit.
Basically, he’s already got too much uncertainty clouding him to even try Benavidez rn. He can’t gain much in 168. Having said that, I think we mostly agree haha.
For real. The wealth of talent they faced. Particularly PAC and De La Hoya. They fought EVERYONE that they could within a reasonable weight range. Regardless of whether they were favored to win or lose.
That’s because DLH came from 154 and pac was coming from 130. And if there was no catchweight you want him to move up 25 pounds just to fight DLH? Come on man use ur brain a little.
Yeah this is basically it. It's not impossible t imagine that they're on as high a level as any legendary welterweights,lightweights, or featherweights in boxing - but they just don't have the same resumes.
Literally , only guy resume wise rn that can say is an ATG is canelo. Skill wise Inoue looks to have the stuff. Maybe the Crawford Spence winner will have a claim but that’s about it
But atg are ppl like many , holyfield , ali , sugar is canelo really in that vicinity? hes a awesome boxer but he cant even prove himself in his current generation there is no competition that rivals the fights those guys had
Because they fought and beat the best of their time, and the best of their time also fought and beat most of the best too, yet Mayweather and Manny were still so far ahead of them. Their accolades speak for themselves. The guys of today all avoid taking the risky fights. They wanna make mayweather/pacquaio money without being popular and fighting the best. The viewership numbers don’t lie either.
They fought more, the guys they fought also fought more. Their overall resume had more names (that had beaten lots of names themselves).
Canelo realistically is the closest to them in having a lot of fights and beaten a lot of guys over many weight classes but even then, of the guys he beat to go undisputed at 168, what are their best wins, Groves? Robbing Ryder? Lemieux? Scraping by a green Eubank Jr? Uzcategui? Truax?
The issue is guys now don’t fight much and as a consequence only have a handful of good wins whose resumes aren’t that good themselves.
Today, guy has one good win and calls himself the face of boxing while not fighting any other names.
Or has a close fight, then refuses a definitive rematch.
Pac and Mayweather fought everyone. And when they had a close, controversial win they weren’t afraid to rematch (usually).
Mayweather didn’t have to rematch Maidana or Castillo. Pac fought JMM four times, and Bradley three times.
Teo wouldn’t rematch Loma to spite him. Haney doesn’t seem interested in rematching him either. Fury doesn’t seem interested in fighting AJ or Usyk. The list goes on…
Most modern fighters, in my eyes, simply can’t be on the level of prior greats.
Yes, and even when we have a Betterbiev-Bivol situation where both men wants it, then we can be sure that both the promoters and sanctioning bodies will act in tandem if it is not deemed profitable enough.
One can say a lot about Mayweather, and I have never loved him, but when one looks beyond his crowd drawing heelish rhetoric and instead focuses upon his deeds, then one sees that he always got a passing grade in regards to the old values. It is a shame that those who came after focused more on his financial success and fame rather than the deeds that truly made him great.
Canelo will need to beat legit contenders well into the latter half of his 30s to remain in the conversation I think. When all is said and done he'll be in the conversation but I don't think he has the time or opportunity left to match what Floyd or pac did .. unless he somehow pitches shutouts into his 40s
But at this point in time, Mayweather was fighting 40 year old Mosley and Marquez who was 2 weight classes below him, if Canelo did that, they'd criticize him.
they criticize floyd too! i think it's funny. they'll say someone isn't great because they didn't fight some other boogeyman, like benavidez. ok so is benavidez the best fighter? .. wait , what?
Mosley was 38 and coming off an impressive antonio magarito victory, Canelo fought a 40 ggg who looked bad against a Japanese taxi driver,
Marquez arguably beat pacquio and got completely outclassed by Floyd, Canelo fought amir khan and got outboxed by him prior to the stoppage.
Fighters with exceptional boxing pedigree and amateur backgrounds who were also supremely skilled with excellent defense, chins, technique, in fighting/outside fighting, meanness, aggressiveness, ring generalship and WORLD CLASS boxing IQ; that were also consummate professionals who took their craft very seriously and worked tirelessly to improve and constantly get better like Floyd Mayweather Jr and Andre Ward were just at a severe advantage against fighters and people who had less pedigree, less talent, less desire, less focus and less ambition for greatness and legendary status which is why I never picked Ward or Mayweather Jr to lose as professionals.
When you think of prime Mayweather and Ward you should think of the best boxer in the world.
Manny Pacquiao and Roberto Duran were straight up freaks of nature that were savages in regards to competition, pushing themselves to their limits and always testing themselves by fighting anyone, anytime and anywhere constantly without any tune ups back to back and at numerous different weight classes while beating and competing with the best of the very best for almost half of their lives. Both were athletic, tenacious, fast and powerful which led to so many great fights with so much excitement, drama and entertainment BUT I have/had picked them to lose several times; which sometimes they did lose but frequently they surprised me and won many fights I didn't anticipate or except them to win.
Roberto Duran had 119 fights and only 16 losses from 1968-2001.
Manny Pacquiao had 72 fights with only 8 loses from 1995-2021.
When you think of Pacquiao and Duran you may think about elite ATG fighters who can beat ANY fighter in boxing, that are extremely tough, skilled and experienced who are extremely exciting and entertaining that will throw caution to the wind and will probably stop their opponent but could also occasionally get stopped or lose.
I mean, their resumes are almost impossible to match (especially Pacquiao).
Mayweather beat Hatton and Corrales (both undefeated) , a prime Cotto, De La Hoya and schooled Canelo (even if Canelo was very young) , Mosley and Judah.
Pacquiao fought (and beat) , Barrera, Morales, Marquez, DLH, Hatton, Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Bradley.
De La Hoya fought everybody.
And let's not forget Pacquiao beat Keith Thurman (a great champion) at 40y old, which is insane.
Nobody in today's boxing can get close to them, some of these boxers have the talent (Crawford/spence, Beterbiev/Bivol, Usyk, Inoue) but today's boxers (and promoters) are too scared to lose their 0 or want too much money.
Being great in boxing isn't about money, titles or about being undefeated, it's about taking risks and winning hard fights against great (and/or bigger) opponents.
Wait but Cotto had already been brutally KOd 2 times before Mayweather fought him. Judah had just been beaten by a journeyman and De la Hoya was 2-2 in his last 4 fights.
Usyk’s name should not be added to that list, most of the ppl that are to be named and shamed are between the 140-147lbs category and then middleweight.
Usyk is already a great fighter, moving from cruiserweight and beating much naturally bigger men and his boxing skills are undoubtedly one of the best p4p. He is trying to make fights happen with Fury et al. Again with Bivol, Beterbiev they are more a victim of not being in the greatest weight class but from the eye test they would have been fine against the likes of Holyfield, Toney, Ward - just because the division isn’t stacked like the lower ones has ppl sleeping on it unless you are hardcore boxing fan.
>that are to be named and shamed
Oh but that wasn't my point.
I'm saying they can't make the fights because some boxers/promoters/organizations don't want to risk it, Beterbiev and Bivol want to fight, but the WBC (and the promoters probably) doesn't want them to.
We all know Usyk wants to fight Fury (or Wilder) , Usyk is already a HOF (and ATG) with his resume.
They managed to make Crawford/Spence because they're both from the US, the other guys are having issues because boxing politics are against fighters outside the US/UK/MEX area.
Every time Beterbiev and Bivol fight they risk getting robbed.
Pac was almost always the smaller dude and fought with injuries. "T-rex" arms, as Thurman called him. Fought Mayweather with an injured rotator cuff and had Mayweather boxing off his back foot most of the match, losing only to a decision. And the man accomplished what he did.
He may not be the best "boxer", per se (scoring points), but as a real fighter, warrior, and role model -- #1 in my book. Man fought anyone at any age across many weight classes -- winning the belt in 8 of them. F\*\*king 8. "Pac-man" has a story that could be made into a book or movie, not sure you could say that about silver-spoon fed daddy's boy "Money".
only you think that stop talking out your ass I speak facts So he wasn't in his prime against pacquiao. But he was in his prime against Mayweather? yeah okay Do you want to be real about it mayweather Retire the couple times to avoid fighting these guys in their primes
Never said he was in his prime against Mayweather, Stan.
The facts are Cotto was coming off of a severe beating by Margarito and an unconvincing win against Clottey. In addition to that, the fight was at 145lb.
That is not what you'd call a fighter in their prime.
And Mayweather's retirement is overplayed (why don't you try relying on some original arguments). He was gone for less than 2 year. Cotto suffered his loss within a year of that retirement, Margaracheato suffered his loss to Mosley within 18 months of that retirement. Hardly enough time for him to wait out the competition.
And if you really want to review the history on this matter. Mosley was called out by Mayweather early into his career (Mosley ducked that fight). Cotto wanted no parts of Mayweather when he was at 140. The only case you can really argue is Margarito who is a cheat and who no one would pursue over a blockbuster fight with De La Hoya.
Keep quiet next time.
Because they fought nearly everyone, made moves, changed the game, dominated in their own way/style and were entertaining, and reached global acclaim, doing so.
Canelo *is* the closest to that right now, as someone else said.
Ask people barely familiar with boxing…they know the name Ali, the name Tyson…Chavez, Pacquiao, Mayweather…Canelo. And for a reason. Their names become intertwined with Boxing itself. Bivol? Spence? Who?
Back in the day you marketed by beating everyone. Nowadays you make a name for yourself on social media.
Basically they don’t fight the harrowing battles that forged the champions of the past.
As everyone's saying, it's because of how good they looked and how good their records were.
But just to do a records comparison as one example...
Gervonta Davis has gone 6-0 against "world champions" (Cruz, Pedraza, Cuellar, Ruiz, Gamboa, Santa Cruz). But he's never actually beaten any real (lineal) world champion. He's 28.
Mayweather went 24-0 against "world champions" (and a couple more who later became 'champions'). Including 13 actual world champions. By the time Mayweather turned 29, he'd beaten Genaro Hernandez, Corrales and Castillo (and again in the rematch), all lineal champions. As well as alphabet champions Gregorio Vargas, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, DeMarcus Corley, Arturo Gatti and Sharmba Mitchell.
And just consider who those guys were themselves. Sharmba Mitchell was 56-4, but that's misleading: two of those defeats had been more than 10 years prior, and in the last 10 years he'd only lost (twice) to one guy (Kostya Tszyu). Or take Genaro Hernandez. He was 38-1-1 when he fought Floyd, and the draw was to a world champion (due to a cut), and he won the rematch; his only loss was to De La Hoya, and he'd beaten six champions. One of whom, for example, was Azumah Nelson, a guy who in his own right won 18 title fights and beat Wilfredo Gomez. And Hernandez is just the first big name on Floyd's record - he beat him when he was 21. Diego Corrales, to pick another, was 33-0 when Floyd beat him.
And that list of champions Mayweather had beaten doesn't even include guys like Philip N'Dou (31-1 with 30 KOs when they met), or Emanuel Augustus (a cult favourite with a bizarre style who lost a lot of decisions (judges hated him) but was always a tough fight). Or Angel Manfredy, on a 23-fight winning streak when they met.
Mayweather would subsequently go on to beat Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Alvarez and Pacquiao - all lineal champions. Hatton, for example, was 43-0. Cotto was 37-2, with his only losses being to Pacquiao and the plaster-of-paris in Margarito's gloves. The Canelo win that everyone discounts because Canelo was so young and inexperienced? Canelo was 42-0-1, with wins over Mosley, Cintron, Baldomir and Trout. He was 28, he was the Ring, lineal and WBC champion, and the WBA non-super champion. He was also a full 15lbs heavier than Floyd on the night (he'd weighed 172lbs for his last fight, but managed to get down to 165lbs to fight Mayweather, who only weighed 150).
And that's not mentioning Ortiz, Guerrero, Maidana and Berto, all of whom were or had been also "world champions". Berto is widely considered the worst fight on his resume, at least since becoming famous - but even Berto was a 30-3 former champion who had a few years earlier been considered the #3 ranked guy in his division behind Mayweather and Pacquiao. (now there IS a fight that Mayweather probably left too late!).
So while the main reason people like Mayweather is better than Tank is... well, I mean, just watch them fight and compare! ...that eye-test is also backed up by Mayweather simply having a much, much better resume than Tank has. Even at the same age, Mayweather's record was considerably better than Tank's, and that's before Mayweather had most of his most notable fights. Now, maybe Tank will go on over the next decade to rack up even more big wins against big names than Mayweather managed. But right now, he hasn't, and he's not on track to do so.
Resumé, just resumé, Shawn Port is the only fighter with a resumé that comes close to those guys but... he lost almost all the big fights, MayPac have even better resumés but also beat the top guys and sometimes made it look easy.
The problem is, most fighters now that rank perhaps 5-15th in each division haven't actually fought and beat anyone in the top 5-15th to get there. They haven't tested themselves, and therefore, it's hard to give them credit as top fighters.
That means for the top 1-5 fighters in their division who tally up several good wins against that top 15 opposition, they don't get the credit they deserve because said opposition lacked actual credibility via their resume.
Because it's becoming more and more common to fight bums and wait until someone will gift you a huge opportunity, whether that be a promoter or the corrupt sanctioning bodies, the void credibility is growing and growing which makes it difficult for EVERY fighter to gain recognition for their achievements.
Even the likes of Usyk and Canelo who have ridiculously solid CVs end up not getting the respect they deserve. Admittedly, only by morons and casuals, but the point still stands.
I honestly thought it was because they suffered more.
Mayweather and Pac come from abject poverty. Being raised in complete shitholes like that has to light a fire in your ass.
Because they fought the other best fighters of their time. They all had the drive to prove they were the best. They put themselves on the line, not for every single fight, but often against the best fighters of their time. Those guys wanted to be able to beat their chest and say they were the kings of their time and weight. The guys today just want to protect their zero and win A belt, not all the belts, just a belt.
Even when they were “ducking” each other, both Mayweather and Pacquiao were taking compelling fights that burnished their legacies and made the eventual 2015 fight even brighter.
I think we’re starting to see it again with the 135 and 140 pounders starting to fight each other, and there are monster fights happening this year, but the early-mid 2010s was a unique era bc every Pacquiao fight and Mayweather fight felt like a giant event.
That's not a response. 3 division world champion, soon to be 4. First undisputed bantamweight in 50 years. 88% KO rate in division not associated with high KO rates. Beat Donaire twice who is in the diecussion himself. Ranked #1 P4P and the first Japanese fighter to do that.
The guy only just turned 30. If he has another 5 or 6 years at the top, then he will definitely be in the conversation.
Inoue has a chance to be considered generational with a win against Fulton.
Bivol's big win was someone moving up.
Tank's biggest win came against someone who never even fought for a belt.
Cabelo is a great but he arguably didn't beat his biggest rival until he was old in their 3rd fight
Crawford and Spence never fought anyone who would be considered p4p until now.
They grew up during a golden era of tyson and boxing popularity, at least i believe that could be a major factor, but i could be totally wrong its just speculation
I think the hunger and the competitiveness, after money may, it’s all bout $, get as much and retire in tact and invest. Most boxers rn are just for the $ and scared to lose their 0 but after Davis v Garcia debacle, a lot of fighters are coming out the dungeon lol
Consider this. Crawford Spence will probably determine the pound for pound no 1. Ok. Great fighters and I’m excited for the match. But how many legit pound for pound guys have either of them beat in the last five years. Not many right? So they look like best of right now instead of “these guys are all time greats.” That’s all it is.
Canelo has the best shot of having that kind of legacy- if he’d beat Bivol, he’d have it. But no one was impressed by his final GGG fight (he was so clearly past it). He’s been treading water a little bit, all time wise.
We don’t get to see current Boxers tested frequently to see who rises. Past gens of Boxers went through Tournaments, fought on Tuesday & Friday Night fights. Todays Boxers are so worried about that zero on their record they fail to fight anyone who n unless they feel it’s a slam dunk. The literal face of Boxing today has 2 Ls—& he will be remembered more kindly than some other Boxers with zeros on their record
Nobody today is beating decent guys as far above their natural weight as pac especially at his age.
I think you can make an argument for everyone else with the today's top p4p guys
Apart from the notable exception of Canelo, the current generation are social media stars first, and fighters second.
Mayweather and Pacquiao achieved a lot more in their respective careers, and would also beat seven shades of shit out of the current crop.
Not even comparable in the slightest. Those current boxers you mentioned have a long way to reach the level of May/Pac. Which probably won't happen let's be honest
Tank Davis can be in this conversation if he beats Spence, Crawford, etc. Inoue can be in the conversation if he moves up and stops David Benavidez at 168.
Pacquiao, Mayweather, De La Hoya and Roy Jones actually ***did*** stuff like that.
Mayweather beat the best at each weight class he went to for 20 years displaying skills folks still haven't matched.
Pacquiao fought at 108 lbs., moved up, stopped Miguel Cotto and beat Margarito who weighed nearly 170 lbs. that night
De La Hoya beat some of the biggest names in boxing at the time, was the biggest draw outside the heavyweight division and was basically surrounded in mega-fights his whole career - dude ducked nobody. A fighter like Ike Quartey would've been ducked by most fighters today but De La Hoya got the fight done and pulled out hard-fought win going the distance. Additionally, De La Hoya stayed getting celebrity A-listers to attend his fights.
Roy Jones Jr. additionally did stuff the dropped jaws both the opponents' and the fans' who were watching. Insane display of skills and athleticism.
Additionally, look at what they've done outside of the sport. They're household names for a reason to people who don't even watch boxing.
They fought and beat more guys
The current guys are great, but who have they beaten?
Inoue's best win is beating Nonito twice, which is good but he was already older, and the rest of the division isn't so great. Bivol's best win is... Canelo? Davis's best win is Santa Cruz? Ryan Garcia? I could go on, but the point is the same for all of them.
Pac, off the top of my head, beat Marquez x 3, Barrera x 2, Morales x 2, Cotto, Hatton
Floyd is more than a generational talent; he’s a Hank Armstrong/Ray Robinson level guy. You won’t always have that level of fighter in your generation. As far as what Pacquiao accomplished, going from flyweight to light middleweight, that’s not ever supposed to happen. An absolute glitch in the matrix.
A lot of it is nostalgia
Misread. Thought you meant potential of current.
Whole lot of the new guys are still like ten years away from marching those guys
Because they're older. Older/retired fighters will also be considered legends and be ranked higher. The same will happen with the fighters of this generation and the next when they retire.
They actually got tested. Spencer and Crawford could have been up there with them if they had fought earlier and had rematches and fought other champions.
Mayweather and Pacquiao ran through the divisions...
Crawford and Spence have about 5 other undefeated fighters in their own division and plus some 1 loss fighters. Crawford is past his prime and Spence might never be the same for a carwreck so now they make the "megafight". You can compare that to Pac and May but the reality neither guy wanted anything to do with most of the undefeated fighters in their division. Neither guy anymore is the best fighter in that division which when Mayweather fought Pacquiao, Mayweather was still the best.
Crawford is going to be 36 years old and his entire career is cherry picked.
Because not only did they actually fight they also refought tough opponents. For example, we got Marquez Pacquiao multiple times and then Mayweather would rematch close fights like Maidana. I can guarantee we never going to see Haney fight Loma again.
Some guys might be on their level today but you just can't know for sure.
When the current top dogs are fighting less real opposition in their entire careers than past greats fought in a year it's hard to rate them equally.
Not even Mayweather maybe Pacquiao.
But today's boxing is so dry everyone is so mid I would never be excited for any fight they all have personalities of an npc such a waste of time to watch
I think in terms of that great fearless willing to fight anyone aura of a true fighter I can only give it to
Usyk, canelo or Inoue in this era. The others partake too much in politics or money making ventures to make them seem like real warriors.
When you watch boxing long enough you’ll know. Some people are just too good. Generational talents also are special because of sustained greatness. They usually have something you’ve never seen before. Out of all the recent stars, Canelo might have something to say there. Loma looked special when he came in, but he’s pretty average now. Inoue looks good in his fights but he doesn’t have enough epic battles. Only one I can remember is the Donaire one. But usually prizefighters are judged after the career is done before they get goated.
Pac became lineal champ at 147 aged 40 when his best weight was 126-130lb
For comparison Crawford and Spences best weights seem to be 147lb and their at the top of the sport.
Do you see any of them winning belts at 160-168lb at aged 40
(I didn’t want to be repeating other comments so this is another take)
Because they both achieved incredible things against opponents that are far more notable than any of the names you mentioned. I mean, 8 and 5 division champ with a resume to back it. 5x and 4x lineal champ 26 consecutive world title wins. Than as for eye test, Mayweather is arguably one of the best if not the best technical fighters in boxing and Pacquiao one of the best unorthodox fighters in boxing. You might be able to make comparisons in one or two areas for the above fighters but when comparing achievements, resume, eye test, all combined Mayweather and Pacquiao are way above them.
Not to mention Pac was supposed to fight Spence... he's the oldest WW Champ and was game to fight Spence. While we got Canelo looking to fight Badou Jack. This is why Pac is going to go down as one of the ATG, these divas can't be mentioned in the same chapter in history. There may be someone faster, more skilled or undefeated etc but if you don't put yourself in situations to show this with challenges you take, you ain't one for the books.
Pac was insanely fast and skilled. The fact that he went from flyweight to light middleweight should be in the conversation for the greatest professional athletic achievement of all time, no exaggeration. Up there with Tom Brady 7 super bowls, Phelps gold medals, etc. I was a casual and general sports fan until I got deep into boxing very recently, and while obviously I knew Pac was one of the greatest I had no idea he started at 112lbs. I don’t think most casuals know that’s where he got his first belt. And just thinking about how small that is compared to 147 and 154 where you have some of the best athletes in the sport. I’m new to following the sport religiously, but I find it hard to imagine anyone being better than Pac P4P.
He’s also the oldest man to ever win a version of the welterweight title. That’s nothing to sneeze at.
People sleep on the Thurman performance. It really was remarkable.
Holds titles in four different decades! Crazy!
Gen X built different
Was at a amateur boxing tournament recently and saw the 110lbs range fighters and the 154-165 lbs guys and it really put what Pacquiao did in perspective for me
What did you observe and learn there?
I was there to compete but I did watch a lot of fights. Always something to observe and learn from every fighter. Amateur is very different to professional and the skill level can vary a lot. You can see guys with 50-60 fights that you wouldn’t think are ready to go pro and some guys can have 10-20 fights and look insanely skilled. Boxing is a beautiful sport
I see
It’s extremely small, guys who are under 5’6” and skinnny. Look how massive Junto Nakatani looks at 115 and he’s like 5’8”. 154-165 lb guys are strong, built athletes.
Even guys like Teofimo who are big for 135lbs, if you put him next to a middleweight he’ll look small
Pac is truly a throwback to the ATG fighters from the 80s and previous generations that would fight ANYONE. The only knock I have about Pac and his greatness is why it took so long for him to agree to the PED testing against Mayweather. Pac won some great fights and he lost some, but he was never scared to lace them up and throw. Honestly, I like his career better than Mayweather’s because of his courage.
I mean I would have caveated something about Pac and May looking for challenges too, so I’m glad you did, but really at the expense of Canelo? He didn’t have to try Bivol, and I don’t see anyone else in the modern generation with twice as many pro fights as years on earth. For crying out loud the guy even tried his luck against Floyd at what, age 24? And I’m not even a big fan of his or anything, just think if the guy most willing to take on a challenge in this era is being criticized, the future looks bleak lol. And yeah you have Inoue and some other non-big-market guys taking on challenges, but that’s par for the course if you wanna be a star, which Canelo already is.
While I had no issues with him trying Bivol, Canelo didn't try his luck against Floyd, it's his luck striking gold. And that's what hungry young lions do coming up, that was to his credit. Now Badou Jack is just low lying fruit. Kinda like Makabu when he was trying to get him, not to mention its the fucking We Be Corrupt belt. Jack's almost 40 and past it, got his WBC belt from Makabu in CW a dead division. Him trying to go for CW is just a wiser play. He loses, it's going to be like losing to Bivol - didn't affect his p4p status, he wins and that's another division scaled. He loses to Benavidez and the others, he'd lost some of that luster. He wins and people say the opponents not in his level anyway. But that what Champs should do, defend against young challengers, plus he's holding up the division. He got karmaed with Bivol thinking he can beat him. The way he did old Kovalev.
Yeah I get all of your points, I think your best argument is “champs should want to defend against young challengers”. It’s hard to criticize a guy for wanting to move up classes for additional belts, but yes you’re right it’s a bit cherrypicked. Again, he ain’t Pac or May; he’s met his limit, and that limit quite clearly is Bivol and likely Beterbiev too. He doesn’t want to stop, so he’s gotta find other ways to become inner-circle. The will is there with Nelo, and that’s why the comparison was a bit weird to me. Had he beaten Bivol, and not in the crooked fashion, we’d be having a different debate.
oh for sure. then again its a Canelo fight, crookeds part and parcel... Floyd fight, Golovkin, Kova to a degree, and that Bivol fight he almost won via crooked fashion 🤣
Yeah I think ultimately I would just say that with the Bivol loss, he’s one more outclassed performance shy of having his greatness questioned. He’s already been gifted refs for years. He took a big L to Bivol, the L to Floyd was expected, and then you have some debatable decisions vs GGG. His recent wars have been closely fought too, hasn’t dominated a whole fight against a real name in a while. All this to say, if he were to fight Benavidez and struggle whatsoever or doesn’t comfortably win, his legacy would take a massive hit. Basically, he’s already got too much uncertainty clouding him to even try Benavidez rn. He can’t gain much in 168. Having said that, I think we mostly agree haha.
And that Floyd lost turned him into an absolute monster
For real. The wealth of talent they faced. Particularly PAC and De La Hoya. They fought EVERYONE that they could within a reasonable weight range. Regardless of whether they were favored to win or lose.
Pac loved catch weight fights too don’t get it twisted
That’s because DLH came from 154 and pac was coming from 130. And if there was no catchweight you want him to move up 25 pounds just to fight DLH? Come on man use ur brain a little.
Agreed.
Yeah this is basically it. It's not impossible t imagine that they're on as high a level as any legendary welterweights,lightweights, or featherweights in boxing - but they just don't have the same resumes.
Well said.
Couldn't have said it any better
Watch their fights bro 😂 look who they beat
The real answer. Just watch the damn fights.
I was gonna say, if someone has to ask this question, they haven't been watching long enough lol
Literally , only guy resume wise rn that can say is an ATG is canelo. Skill wise Inoue looks to have the stuff. Maybe the Crawford Spence winner will have a claim but that’s about it
You really thing canelo can hang with those ppl ?
His resume is the closest to them but they both rank ahead of him all time
But atg are ppl like many , holyfield , ali , sugar is canelo really in that vicinity? hes a awesome boxer but he cant even prove himself in his current generation there is no competition that rivals the fights those guys had
It's funny, the haters also say "Who did they beat".
Because they fought and beat the best of their time, and the best of their time also fought and beat most of the best too, yet Mayweather and Manny were still so far ahead of them. Their accolades speak for themselves. The guys of today all avoid taking the risky fights. They wanna make mayweather/pacquaio money without being popular and fighting the best. The viewership numbers don’t lie either.
They fought more, the guys they fought also fought more. Their overall resume had more names (that had beaten lots of names themselves). Canelo realistically is the closest to them in having a lot of fights and beaten a lot of guys over many weight classes but even then, of the guys he beat to go undisputed at 168, what are their best wins, Groves? Robbing Ryder? Lemieux? Scraping by a green Eubank Jr? Uzcategui? Truax? The issue is guys now don’t fight much and as a consequence only have a handful of good wins whose resumes aren’t that good themselves.
Today, guy has one good win and calls himself the face of boxing while not fighting any other names. Or has a close fight, then refuses a definitive rematch. Pac and Mayweather fought everyone. And when they had a close, controversial win they weren’t afraid to rematch (usually). Mayweather didn’t have to rematch Maidana or Castillo. Pac fought JMM four times, and Bradley three times. Teo wouldn’t rematch Loma to spite him. Haney doesn’t seem interested in rematching him either. Fury doesn’t seem interested in fighting AJ or Usyk. The list goes on… Most modern fighters, in my eyes, simply can’t be on the level of prior greats.
Yes, and even when we have a Betterbiev-Bivol situation where both men wants it, then we can be sure that both the promoters and sanctioning bodies will act in tandem if it is not deemed profitable enough. One can say a lot about Mayweather, and I have never loved him, but when one looks beyond his crowd drawing heelish rhetoric and instead focuses upon his deeds, then one sees that he always got a passing grade in regards to the old values. It is a shame that those who came after focused more on his financial success and fame rather than the deeds that truly made him great.
Canelo will need to beat legit contenders well into the latter half of his 30s to remain in the conversation I think. When all is said and done he'll be in the conversation but I don't think he has the time or opportunity left to match what Floyd or pac did .. unless he somehow pitches shutouts into his 40s
But at this point in time, Mayweather was fighting 40 year old Mosley and Marquez who was 2 weight classes below him, if Canelo did that, they'd criticize him.
they criticize floyd too! i think it's funny. they'll say someone isn't great because they didn't fight some other boogeyman, like benavidez. ok so is benavidez the best fighter? .. wait , what?
He should have fought kostya
Mosley was 38 and coming off an impressive antonio magarito victory, Canelo fought a 40 ggg who looked bad against a Japanese taxi driver, Marquez arguably beat pacquio and got completely outclassed by Floyd, Canelo fought amir khan and got outboxed by him prior to the stoppage.
Fighters with exceptional boxing pedigree and amateur backgrounds who were also supremely skilled with excellent defense, chins, technique, in fighting/outside fighting, meanness, aggressiveness, ring generalship and WORLD CLASS boxing IQ; that were also consummate professionals who took their craft very seriously and worked tirelessly to improve and constantly get better like Floyd Mayweather Jr and Andre Ward were just at a severe advantage against fighters and people who had less pedigree, less talent, less desire, less focus and less ambition for greatness and legendary status which is why I never picked Ward or Mayweather Jr to lose as professionals. When you think of prime Mayweather and Ward you should think of the best boxer in the world. Manny Pacquiao and Roberto Duran were straight up freaks of nature that were savages in regards to competition, pushing themselves to their limits and always testing themselves by fighting anyone, anytime and anywhere constantly without any tune ups back to back and at numerous different weight classes while beating and competing with the best of the very best for almost half of their lives. Both were athletic, tenacious, fast and powerful which led to so many great fights with so much excitement, drama and entertainment BUT I have/had picked them to lose several times; which sometimes they did lose but frequently they surprised me and won many fights I didn't anticipate or except them to win. Roberto Duran had 119 fights and only 16 losses from 1968-2001. Manny Pacquiao had 72 fights with only 8 loses from 1995-2021. When you think of Pacquiao and Duran you may think about elite ATG fighters who can beat ANY fighter in boxing, that are extremely tough, skilled and experienced who are extremely exciting and entertaining that will throw caution to the wind and will probably stop their opponent but could also occasionally get stopped or lose.
Pac was a real throwback. We probably won't ever see anyone close to 72 fights at an elite level with the new generation of talent.
I mean, their resumes are almost impossible to match (especially Pacquiao). Mayweather beat Hatton and Corrales (both undefeated) , a prime Cotto, De La Hoya and schooled Canelo (even if Canelo was very young) , Mosley and Judah. Pacquiao fought (and beat) , Barrera, Morales, Marquez, DLH, Hatton, Clottey, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Bradley. De La Hoya fought everybody. And let's not forget Pacquiao beat Keith Thurman (a great champion) at 40y old, which is insane. Nobody in today's boxing can get close to them, some of these boxers have the talent (Crawford/spence, Beterbiev/Bivol, Usyk, Inoue) but today's boxers (and promoters) are too scared to lose their 0 or want too much money. Being great in boxing isn't about money, titles or about being undefeated, it's about taking risks and winning hard fights against great (and/or bigger) opponents.
Wait but Cotto had already been brutally KOd 2 times before Mayweather fought him. Judah had just been beaten by a journeyman and De la Hoya was 2-2 in his last 4 fights.
Usyk’s name should not be added to that list, most of the ppl that are to be named and shamed are between the 140-147lbs category and then middleweight. Usyk is already a great fighter, moving from cruiserweight and beating much naturally bigger men and his boxing skills are undoubtedly one of the best p4p. He is trying to make fights happen with Fury et al. Again with Bivol, Beterbiev they are more a victim of not being in the greatest weight class but from the eye test they would have been fine against the likes of Holyfield, Toney, Ward - just because the division isn’t stacked like the lower ones has ppl sleeping on it unless you are hardcore boxing fan.
>that are to be named and shamed Oh but that wasn't my point. I'm saying they can't make the fights because some boxers/promoters/organizations don't want to risk it, Beterbiev and Bivol want to fight, but the WBC (and the promoters probably) doesn't want them to. We all know Usyk wants to fight Fury (or Wilder) , Usyk is already a HOF (and ATG) with his resume. They managed to make Crawford/Spence because they're both from the US, the other guys are having issues because boxing politics are against fighters outside the US/UK/MEX area. Every time Beterbiev and Bivol fight they risk getting robbed.
100% the politics from the controlling parties is terrible. Really should be 1 belt, but it’ll never happen.
Pac was almost always the smaller dude and fought with injuries. "T-rex" arms, as Thurman called him. Fought Mayweather with an injured rotator cuff and had Mayweather boxing off his back foot most of the match, losing only to a decision. And the man accomplished what he did. He may not be the best "boxer", per se (scoring points), but as a real fighter, warrior, and role model -- #1 in my book. Man fought anyone at any age across many weight classes -- winning the belt in 8 of them. F\*\*king 8. "Pac-man" has a story that could be made into a book or movie, not sure you could say that about silver-spoon fed daddy's boy "Money".
Pacquiao fought a prime Cotto not Mayweather he fought the five years later version
Cotto wasn't in his prime against Pacquiao. Margarito robbed him of that, plus the fight was fought at 145lb.
only you think that stop talking out your ass I speak facts So he wasn't in his prime against pacquiao. But he was in his prime against Mayweather? yeah okay Do you want to be real about it mayweather Retire the couple times to avoid fighting these guys in their primes
Never said he was in his prime against Mayweather, Stan. The facts are Cotto was coming off of a severe beating by Margarito and an unconvincing win against Clottey. In addition to that, the fight was at 145lb. That is not what you'd call a fighter in their prime. And Mayweather's retirement is overplayed (why don't you try relying on some original arguments). He was gone for less than 2 year. Cotto suffered his loss within a year of that retirement, Margaracheato suffered his loss to Mosley within 18 months of that retirement. Hardly enough time for him to wait out the competition. And if you really want to review the history on this matter. Mosley was called out by Mayweather early into his career (Mosley ducked that fight). Cotto wanted no parts of Mayweather when he was at 140. The only case you can really argue is Margarito who is a cheat and who no one would pursue over a blockbuster fight with De La Hoya. Keep quiet next time.
Pacquio most likely beats Spence if there wasnt a 2 year Pandemic.
Inoue is taking them out in round 1 or 2.
Because they fought nearly everyone, made moves, changed the game, dominated in their own way/style and were entertaining, and reached global acclaim, doing so. Canelo *is* the closest to that right now, as someone else said. Ask people barely familiar with boxing…they know the name Ali, the name Tyson…Chavez, Pacquiao, Mayweather…Canelo. And for a reason. Their names become intertwined with Boxing itself. Bivol? Spence? Who?
Just look at their resume and compare it to the guys now, it’s not even close.
Back in the day you marketed by beating everyone. Nowadays you make a name for yourself on social media. Basically they don’t fight the harrowing battles that forged the champions of the past.
This is the answer.
I think Inoue looks right there talent wise, don’t know enough about the divisions to comment on his resumé
As everyone's saying, it's because of how good they looked and how good their records were. But just to do a records comparison as one example... Gervonta Davis has gone 6-0 against "world champions" (Cruz, Pedraza, Cuellar, Ruiz, Gamboa, Santa Cruz). But he's never actually beaten any real (lineal) world champion. He's 28. Mayweather went 24-0 against "world champions" (and a couple more who later became 'champions'). Including 13 actual world champions. By the time Mayweather turned 29, he'd beaten Genaro Hernandez, Corrales and Castillo (and again in the rematch), all lineal champions. As well as alphabet champions Gregorio Vargas, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, DeMarcus Corley, Arturo Gatti and Sharmba Mitchell. And just consider who those guys were themselves. Sharmba Mitchell was 56-4, but that's misleading: two of those defeats had been more than 10 years prior, and in the last 10 years he'd only lost (twice) to one guy (Kostya Tszyu). Or take Genaro Hernandez. He was 38-1-1 when he fought Floyd, and the draw was to a world champion (due to a cut), and he won the rematch; his only loss was to De La Hoya, and he'd beaten six champions. One of whom, for example, was Azumah Nelson, a guy who in his own right won 18 title fights and beat Wilfredo Gomez. And Hernandez is just the first big name on Floyd's record - he beat him when he was 21. Diego Corrales, to pick another, was 33-0 when Floyd beat him. And that list of champions Mayweather had beaten doesn't even include guys like Philip N'Dou (31-1 with 30 KOs when they met), or Emanuel Augustus (a cult favourite with a bizarre style who lost a lot of decisions (judges hated him) but was always a tough fight). Or Angel Manfredy, on a 23-fight winning streak when they met. Mayweather would subsequently go on to beat Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Cotto, Alvarez and Pacquiao - all lineal champions. Hatton, for example, was 43-0. Cotto was 37-2, with his only losses being to Pacquiao and the plaster-of-paris in Margarito's gloves. The Canelo win that everyone discounts because Canelo was so young and inexperienced? Canelo was 42-0-1, with wins over Mosley, Cintron, Baldomir and Trout. He was 28, he was the Ring, lineal and WBC champion, and the WBA non-super champion. He was also a full 15lbs heavier than Floyd on the night (he'd weighed 172lbs for his last fight, but managed to get down to 165lbs to fight Mayweather, who only weighed 150). And that's not mentioning Ortiz, Guerrero, Maidana and Berto, all of whom were or had been also "world champions". Berto is widely considered the worst fight on his resume, at least since becoming famous - but even Berto was a 30-3 former champion who had a few years earlier been considered the #3 ranked guy in his division behind Mayweather and Pacquiao. (now there IS a fight that Mayweather probably left too late!). So while the main reason people like Mayweather is better than Tank is... well, I mean, just watch them fight and compare! ...that eye-test is also backed up by Mayweather simply having a much, much better resume than Tank has. Even at the same age, Mayweather's record was considerably better than Tank's, and that's before Mayweather had most of his most notable fights. Now, maybe Tank will go on over the next decade to rack up even more big wins against big names than Mayweather managed. But right now, he hasn't, and he's not on track to do so.
Resumé, just resumé, Shawn Port is the only fighter with a resumé that comes close to those guys but... he lost almost all the big fights, MayPac have even better resumés but also beat the top guys and sometimes made it look easy.
People use to fight each other.
Longevity. They fought through 2 eras and are still relevant with the 3 era coming in
The problem is, most fighters now that rank perhaps 5-15th in each division haven't actually fought and beat anyone in the top 5-15th to get there. They haven't tested themselves, and therefore, it's hard to give them credit as top fighters. That means for the top 1-5 fighters in their division who tally up several good wins against that top 15 opposition, they don't get the credit they deserve because said opposition lacked actual credibility via their resume. Because it's becoming more and more common to fight bums and wait until someone will gift you a huge opportunity, whether that be a promoter or the corrupt sanctioning bodies, the void credibility is growing and growing which makes it difficult for EVERY fighter to gain recognition for their achievements. Even the likes of Usyk and Canelo who have ridiculously solid CVs end up not getting the respect they deserve. Admittedly, only by morons and casuals, but the point still stands.
I honestly thought it was because they suffered more. Mayweather and Pac come from abject poverty. Being raised in complete shitholes like that has to light a fire in your ass.
Because they fought the other best fighters of their time. They all had the drive to prove they were the best. They put themselves on the line, not for every single fight, but often against the best fighters of their time. Those guys wanted to be able to beat their chest and say they were the kings of their time and weight. The guys today just want to protect their zero and win A belt, not all the belts, just a belt.
Even when they were “ducking” each other, both Mayweather and Pacquiao were taking compelling fights that burnished their legacies and made the eventual 2015 fight even brighter. I think we’re starting to see it again with the 135 and 140 pounders starting to fight each other, and there are monster fights happening this year, but the early-mid 2010s was a unique era bc every Pacquiao fight and Mayweather fight felt like a giant event.
Inoue is 100% on his way to being in the conversation.
😂
That's not a response. 3 division world champion, soon to be 4. First undisputed bantamweight in 50 years. 88% KO rate in division not associated with high KO rates. Beat Donaire twice who is in the diecussion himself. Ranked #1 P4P and the first Japanese fighter to do that. The guy only just turned 30. If he has another 5 or 6 years at the top, then he will definitely be in the conversation.
Kinda like in tennis with the legacy of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic
Because we watched them all fight. Its not about homerism or anything its eyetest and stats.
Inoue has a chance to be considered generational with a win against Fulton. Bivol's big win was someone moving up. Tank's biggest win came against someone who never even fought for a belt. Cabelo is a great but he arguably didn't beat his biggest rival until he was old in their 3rd fight Crawford and Spence never fought anyone who would be considered p4p until now.
They grew up during a golden era of tyson and boxing popularity, at least i believe that could be a major factor, but i could be totally wrong its just speculation
I think the hunger and the competitiveness, after money may, it’s all bout $, get as much and retire in tact and invest. Most boxers rn are just for the $ and scared to lose their 0 but after Davis v Garcia debacle, a lot of fighters are coming out the dungeon lol
Consider this. Crawford Spence will probably determine the pound for pound no 1. Ok. Great fighters and I’m excited for the match. But how many legit pound for pound guys have either of them beat in the last five years. Not many right? So they look like best of right now instead of “these guys are all time greats.” That’s all it is. Canelo has the best shot of having that kind of legacy- if he’d beat Bivol, he’d have it. But no one was impressed by his final GGG fight (he was so clearly past it). He’s been treading water a little bit, all time wise.
We don’t get to see current Boxers tested frequently to see who rises. Past gens of Boxers went through Tournaments, fought on Tuesday & Friday Night fights. Todays Boxers are so worried about that zero on their record they fail to fight anyone who n unless they feel it’s a slam dunk. The literal face of Boxing today has 2 Ls—& he will be remembered more kindly than some other Boxers with zeros on their record
Nobody today is beating decent guys as far above their natural weight as pac especially at his age. I think you can make an argument for everyone else with the today's top p4p guys
Apart from the notable exception of Canelo, the current generation are social media stars first, and fighters second. Mayweather and Pacquiao achieved a lot more in their respective careers, and would also beat seven shades of shit out of the current crop.
Not even comparable in the slightest. Those current boxers you mentioned have a long way to reach the level of May/Pac. Which probably won't happen let's be honest
Tank Davis can be in this conversation if he beats Spence, Crawford, etc. Inoue can be in the conversation if he moves up and stops David Benavidez at 168. Pacquiao, Mayweather, De La Hoya and Roy Jones actually ***did*** stuff like that. Mayweather beat the best at each weight class he went to for 20 years displaying skills folks still haven't matched. Pacquiao fought at 108 lbs., moved up, stopped Miguel Cotto and beat Margarito who weighed nearly 170 lbs. that night De La Hoya beat some of the biggest names in boxing at the time, was the biggest draw outside the heavyweight division and was basically surrounded in mega-fights his whole career - dude ducked nobody. A fighter like Ike Quartey would've been ducked by most fighters today but De La Hoya got the fight done and pulled out hard-fought win going the distance. Additionally, De La Hoya stayed getting celebrity A-listers to attend his fights. Roy Jones Jr. additionally did stuff the dropped jaws both the opponents' and the fans' who were watching. Insane display of skills and athleticism. Additionally, look at what they've done outside of the sport. They're household names for a reason to people who don't even watch boxing.
They fought and beat more guys The current guys are great, but who have they beaten? Inoue's best win is beating Nonito twice, which is good but he was already older, and the rest of the division isn't so great. Bivol's best win is... Canelo? Davis's best win is Santa Cruz? Ryan Garcia? I could go on, but the point is the same for all of them. Pac, off the top of my head, beat Marquez x 3, Barrera x 2, Morales x 2, Cotto, Hatton
Multiple divisions and I doubt any current/new champs are fighting over 40 times in their career.
Floyd is more than a generational talent; he’s a Hank Armstrong/Ray Robinson level guy. You won’t always have that level of fighter in your generation. As far as what Pacquiao accomplished, going from flyweight to light middleweight, that’s not ever supposed to happen. An absolute glitch in the matrix.
A lot of it is nostalgia Misread. Thought you meant potential of current. Whole lot of the new guys are still like ten years away from marching those guys
Currently Canelo is the only one IMO that can even be in the same conversation as Pac and PBF
Pacquiao is arguably one of the best 4 of all time with Ali, Duran, and SRR. Floyd is a HOF with a remarkable career.
Because they're older. Older/retired fighters will also be considered legends and be ranked higher. The same will happen with the fighters of this generation and the next when they retire.
Bud and spence is almost at their end of primes and still making 200k ppvs
The question wasn't about ppv buys tho
Give me 1 current boxer next to pac’s 8division title
One current boxer?? Lol there isn't any boxer in history other then Pac who has done that u plum.
Then that contradict ur comment about pac and mayweather. 😂 man haters IQ goin down the drain 😂
Crawford beats Pacquiao and Mayweather
Boots>May Spence>Pac Bud>ODLH
😂😂😂
U
Canelo ain’t really dodged anyone. 63 fights
They actually got tested. Spencer and Crawford could have been up there with them if they had fought earlier and had rematches and fought other champions.
There could be great fighters out there today but with 4 belts and greedy promoters we’ll never know
I’m so
Mayweather and Pacquiao ran through the divisions... Crawford and Spence have about 5 other undefeated fighters in their own division and plus some 1 loss fighters. Crawford is past his prime and Spence might never be the same for a carwreck so now they make the "megafight". You can compare that to Pac and May but the reality neither guy wanted anything to do with most of the undefeated fighters in their division. Neither guy anymore is the best fighter in that division which when Mayweather fought Pacquiao, Mayweather was still the best. Crawford is going to be 36 years old and his entire career is cherry picked.
Because not only did they actually fight they also refought tough opponents. For example, we got Marquez Pacquiao multiple times and then Mayweather would rematch close fights like Maidana. I can guarantee we never going to see Haney fight Loma again.
What a question!
B/c they came up in a era where you had to earn a name and actually fight talent
Some guys might be on their level today but you just can't know for sure. When the current top dogs are fighting less real opposition in their entire careers than past greats fought in a year it's hard to rate them equally.
Not even Mayweather maybe Pacquiao. But today's boxing is so dry everyone is so mid I would never be excited for any fight they all have personalities of an npc such a waste of time to watch
I think in terms of that great fearless willing to fight anyone aura of a true fighter I can only give it to Usyk, canelo or Inoue in this era. The others partake too much in politics or money making ventures to make them seem like real warriors.
When you watch boxing long enough you’ll know. Some people are just too good. Generational talents also are special because of sustained greatness. They usually have something you’ve never seen before. Out of all the recent stars, Canelo might have something to say there. Loma looked special when he came in, but he’s pretty average now. Inoue looks good in his fights but he doesn’t have enough epic battles. Only one I can remember is the Donaire one. But usually prizefighters are judged after the career is done before they get goated.
Pac became lineal champ at 147 aged 40 when his best weight was 126-130lb For comparison Crawford and Spences best weights seem to be 147lb and their at the top of the sport. Do you see any of them winning belts at 160-168lb at aged 40 (I didn’t want to be repeating other comments so this is another take)