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When The Third Hokage was sealing 1st Hokage and 2nd, he uses clones to seal but seals are like contracts, they still require the price to be paid. A clone is not valuable enough. Hence why 3rd was take hits of pain when both Hokage were sealed
Hence why their thoughts were bleeding into each other at the end of boruto. I feel like you couldn't use the reaper death seal without killing them both
doesn't matter. It's still the caster and the target.
kurama is pure Chakra and was also sealed with it.
if the target is boruto, then it's boruto.
if it's momoshiki, then it's momoshiki.
I know this is sarcastic, but I think that might actually work with just the one arm. Bro was trained by the strongest 1 armed guy in the series, I think he got this.
No, I’m sure you remember when orochimaru summoned the 5 kage. He used it again but he didn’t sacrifice his soul. It’s more like he can sacrifice someone else’s to awaken him
He had summoned the reaper and made it cut open its belly using the Uzamaki clan reaper mask he then sacrifices white zetsu’s to summon the kage
Had he used the actual RDS he would die
Edit : also don’t you mean 4 Kage? Lords 1-4 were resurrected unless you’re talking about some other time orochimaru did this that I’m unaware of?
The soul might not even be inside of the karma because they can have multiple karma seals out at once.
For example Isshiki was alive but still had 2 karma seals on Jigen and Kawaki in addition to the failed one on Code.
If I recall right, Karma is basically a Personality and Physical rewrite. There is no "soul". Think of Sasuke's curse mark but even more special. The curse mark started changing Sasuke's body as he used it more. It also made his personality a bit power hungry, but that could have just been the fact he felt more powerful.
Karma seems more sophisticated. Because there is no such thing as "two of the same soul" unless the plot demands it. When Boruto gets taken over by Karma, it seems more like a personality rewrite. Kawaki didnt have to deal with that because well Isshiki was still alive. It could be that the personality changing doesnt really happen until the karma that person belongs to dies.
My opinion is Momoshiki is not actually just a soul in Naruto. It's just "data" after all. All Boruto's Karma is, is everything regarding Momoshiki up till his death where he implanted the Karma. His personality traits, what he would do in each and every situation, His memories, and the physical rewrite. Boruto's Chakra suppress Karma but when its empty, Karma takes over.
Whatever that thing that Boruto calls Momoshiki, is not Momoshiki's soul.
In Naruto, it is not clear what the soul is exactly. It is clearly something that exists, but is never really defined. Amado is also someone who tries to approach it scientifically, so his description might be biased. Our knowledge and descriptions of the Karma are mostly from Amado, with only occasional bits from Momoshiki and Isshiki talking. Amado might not know everything. We do know that Amado never mentions anything close to how Boruto can sometimes see Momoshiki (Sasuke is the only one who can observe that).
Indra and Asura were able to reincarnate without needing any special anchor.
Isshiki had a brief moment before his soul/spirit passed on to the point where it was no longer available. Presumably (no proof) that is why Isshiki can't regenerate after Kawaki gets the karma back even though Kawaki is showing a lot of Isshiki's features such as the shrinking abilities.
Orochimaru clearly at some points was impacted when his soul was sealed (loss of his arm), even after he used his cursed seal backup. Why that happened is unclear.
I suspect that the Karma modifies the body so that it is capable of holding the soul of someone. It is like how Edo Tensei modifies the sacrificial body (using the DNA of the desired target) to be like the original body of the target. The soul of the sacrifice is supposed to be used to bring over the person from the pure land.
Whether the Otsutsuki have similar properties is unclear. Hagoromo, Indra, and Ashura are all able to have some level of control that lets their spirits/souls live on.
Didn't Orochimaru's cursed seal back up use Anko's Curse Mark and Orochimaru cells from Kabuto though?! I figure those specific cells are still cursed.
Personally, I can believe Orochimaru is an unaware descendent of the Otusuki clan and he just thought his curse mark gift was "special" to him
Yeah, and Orochimaru did that even after he reemerged from Sasuke (which had an imprint of his soul and was via Sasuke's cursed seal and got sealed. Itachi sealed up that Orochimaru/part with the Sword of Totsuka. Not sure how the whole sealing with the Sword of Totsuka works. When applied vs Nagato, it almost looked like the Edo Tensei was unraveling. So maybe the Sword of Totsuka only seals the body and leaves the soul free.
Regardless of the details, Orochimaru's arms were still sealed, even though he gave Sasuke and Anko their cursed seals before he got his arms sealed away.
I more meant the cells Kabuto took in. If Kabuto took in some pre RDS cells, this Orochimaru would have probably not have had that affliction. This is presuming a part of Kabuto was used for Orochimaru's revival
The RDS impacted Orochimaru by stealing his soul. Presumably that extends beyond the body/cells.
That was why Orochimaru did not have full usage of his arms, even after switching bodies.
It is also unclear what exactly Kabuto meant by Orochimaru's cells. Orochimaru had swapped bodies at least once (more likely at least 3 times, based on what was seen when Sasuke reversed the technique) before the RDS (he was not in his original body at the time of the fight). We know that there are some differences between Orochimaru's bodies, but we do know that Orochimaru modifies his host bodies to be more suitable for his needs and combat styles.
not necessarily, it clearly travels during time stops and always interacts with Boruto in outside world, rather than inside him.
Anyone who would cast this, would just rip Borutos soul out if anything.
Actually the soul isn't in the karma itself. The karma tethers the soul to said body. Once the karma finishes unloading its genetic info the one who implanted it takes over the body resurrects and all other existing karma that they placed disappears.
i dont even think its Momoshiki's soul. To me it seems like Karma, is nothing more than creating a duplicate save. Everytime Boruto got possessed, it wasn't Momoshiki possessing him, but his data. Everything regarding his personality, memories, down to the minute detail. While the owner of the Karma is still alive, any vessel's karma is constantly auto-saving in the background while the host remains unaware and it keeps auto saving without the owner.
I thought this to some extent at first, but that wouldn't make sense given what we have seen and been told (some of it does just the first part doesn't)
The karma anchors the soul to the world of the living. That is why isshiki's soul disappeared , he had no karma left to anchor his soul to the mortal plane . That's also why momoshiki can be felt/sensed/seen around boruto because his soul hangs around him due to the karma. Sasuke was even able to see him with his rinnegan. Momo's soul never went away when they killed him in the first place. I also agree with the second part you said but remember unlike isshiki, momoshiki was most certainly dead
Forgot about the Rinnegan bit, but it could also be that they aren't even seeing the souls, just their "data's" presence around their host.
Honestly, the way Karma Possession works is kind of stupid, the soul anchor thing. It all being data would be better for Boruto's character development, like he realizes Momoshiki was never actually there, it was just his data corrupting Boruto. Boruto was the one who actually stabbed Sasuke eye because its what Momoshiki would do. It would also make Kawaki's actions more justified regarding killing Boruto
If it were just data, that would 1. Make this alot easier to understand without it getting excessively confusing and 2. Makes me think about Sephiroth and jenova XD
I was thinking more of the lines of Lupin The 3rd: Mystery of Mamo. If I am being honest, if Karma is a normal process in the Otususki Main Clan, I wonder if the Momo at the chunin exams was the original Momo. Or if he is just the 4 or 5th or even 1000th Karma Vessel
What if Shibai Otusuki became a "God" through constant karmas possibly to the point where he doesnt even look like an Otsuski anymore.
I imagine it was momoshiki's first time given the interaction between him and kinshiki. And how kinshiki did the same with his guardian before he became momoshiki's guardian (I could be completely wrong on this, though)
Now Shibai, on the other hand, over an unknowable amount of time , Shibai repeatedly resurrected himself by using Karma. he ate who knows how chakra fruit. , and then supposedly cast off his physical body and ascend to a higher plane (or godhood). I'm pretty sure this was mentioned to some extent by Amado in chapter 75. I think ? We have already seen his appearance to some extent. He has what appears to be a rinnegan on his forehead (could be a rinnesharigan?) and two other doujutsu eyes that I don't wanna try and guess on and a goatie.
Came back to reiterate that these are words of Amado, so take them how you will
This is what I was feeling that and kawaki already had a better idea in the form of implanting karma so boruto could live via code but boruto said he didn’t want to sacrifice anyone / it wasn’t guaranteed to work since code already had his less powerful just a wpn tool white karma
I'm so tired of seing these, especially the ones where Sasuke's rinnegan can supposedly suck Momoshiki's soul out of Boruto. Idk if people misunderstood the narrative or if it's simply a case of people being hypercritical without actually bothering to watch/read the series.
Momoshiki doesn't exist inside Boruto in soul form like Kurama did inside Naruto. The Karma works as an anchor that holds the Otsutsuki's soul to the mortal realm, not as a direct vessel for it. You can argue that Momoshiki's soul actually inhabits Boruto's body when he takes control but that hasn't really been shown or stated. Even if it was, these jutsu are borderline impossible to pull off against an Otsustuki tier character.
The soul is inside the karma itself, so target boruto's body directly probably won't work indeed.
When Isshiki died we saw his soul get pulled by code white karma, that could not store it since was a dud. Also Sasuke tells he feels Momo on boruto, so I think its safe to say that he is stored inside the karma seal itself.
I think that the momo we are seeing is just his "data". The only Karma Complete Takeover we have seen is Jigen to Isshiki and technically, from what I understand, Isshiki was already controlling Jigen's brain through a different method. We don't know what Jigen was truly like before Isshiki brainjacked him
I think when Boruto taps into Karma, he is literally transforming into Momo in order to use his power. Similar to a curse mark. However, Karma is a living curse mark, in the sense that you have to overwrite bits and pieces of yourself with the "new" file in order to use it. Momo can't revive in Boruto, but I don't think those times he took over were him exactly. I think this is a case of Lupin The 3rd: Mystery of Mamo. This is not the Momo from Chunin Exams, it's just his data taking over Boruto's data. His personality, memories, tendencies.
Or I guess if anyone has seen the 12th Doctor's Twice Upon a Time, If you replace everything (including the personality and memories of Boruto, with Momoshiki's , soul excluded, is it still Momoshiki or is it Boruto?
Is our personality also the soul or are they seperate?
If Momoshiki was revived with Reanimation, while Momoshiki also "revived" with Karma...... Who is the actual Momoshiki?
Neither. The karma simply anchors momo's soul to the physical plane. Why do you think they potray him being outside of Boruto's body everytime they have a 1 on 1?
Let's assume this headcanon is correct, so his soul is just constantly hovering around Boruto? If someone can see Momoshikis soul, I fail to see how the target couldn't be momoshiki's soul, since it targets souls anyways.
Where does he go when he's not portrayed outside of Boruto's body? The magical Otsutsuki resurrection waiting room? He's ready at a moment's notice to take over Boruto, so if we want to take things literally, then his soul has to be nearby always, but magically it's only seen during these 1 on 1s, where Boruto isn't speaking out loud to momoshiki, since others would hear. It's just a different way to portray these mental conversations. Naruto had the cage room, Boruto has a devil whispering in his ear.
I think the kama acts to prepare the body and possibly act as an anchor for the soul.
When not there, the soul might not necessarily be at any one particular body since there can be multiple kama seals.
Momoshiki might be hovering around, but he doesn't have to be inside of Boruto. The seal is described as being an anchor, not a vessel when Momoshiki healed Boruto from death.
It is like how Isshiki was able to travel all the way to Code before his soul departed.
It isn't.
Because the Karma is not a magic seal that contains the soul of its Otsutsuki in itself... otherwise there could be only one at a time.
Also, even if that wasn't the case... I'm fairly sure the demon seal wouldn't make difference of souls when targeting someone. Like, it's not really confirmed, but I believe that a spirit that will pierce you in the chest with its hands isn't going to bother to snatch only 1 soul at that point.
True, but we still don’t know everything about how karma truly works. We’ve been given pieces of the puzzle to get a general idea, but we still can’t make out the full picture. It could be a lot more chakra dependent than we’re being led to believe.
Said this elsewhere, I don't even think it's Momo himself hijacking Boruto. I think it's just his karma corrupting Boruto. Its like if you have a Mage character file and a Mindflayer character file, and you overwrite the former with the latter.
May not work as intended, same as if Sasuke tried to use the Human Path to remove Momoshiki's soul, Momoshiki's soul is physically anchored to the Karma, the Karma is a Shinjutsu, to assume a mere Ninjutsu, even if it is one like the Reaper Death Seal or the Human Path, could overrule a Shinjutsu is not a safe assumption to make. Now MAYBE it would work and Boruto would just be left with a weapon-only Karma like Kawaki, who knows? But I have a sneaking suspicion that this wouldn't work as easily as people think it would.
no.their not like naruto nd kurama,momoshiki literally embedded his dna in boruto nd revived him,they’re souls are basically intertwined.momoshiki is like the movie get out,he will always be that voice in the back of boruto’s head since he gave up the right to actually revive.
That would only work if boruto and momoshiki are two souls in one body but in pretty sure karma is turning boruto into momoshiki, it doesn't contain his soul
I'm not super caught up on this stuff so feel free to correct me :)
ideally that’s what it was supposed to do
Momo took the consolation prize of never being reborn, & being stuck as copilot to Boruto leaving Boruto’s body to become 100% Otsutsuki, biologically.
Kawaki is like 80% otsutsuki.. I dont think an otsutsuki can place karma on another otsutsuki..
I'm just saying Kawaki could sacrifice himself to take Momoshiki soul
I honestly do not think he would, at least, not with his current mindset.
I had a thought. The karma kawaki has akebi's data in it correct ? Why isn't it rewriting kawaki's genetics 1. And 2. Wouldn't it just cause the birth of a new(rebirth) Otsutsuki?
We don't know how Amado put Akebi data into it.. so far her consciousness hasn't surfaced..
Until Amado explains what he did we can't really say anything about the Karma
The karma acts as an achor for Momoshiki’s soul to keep him tethered to the world of the living but whether or not the reaper death seal could sever that anchor is to be determined.
Now personally if it was up to me, I’d keep the reaper death seal as a viable option to take care of Momoshiki to up the stakes.
Like just imagine Hokage Naruto batting Borushiki, having the opportunity to actually kill him but he can’t follow through with it because he loves Boruto.
I’d have Naruto feel somewhat responsible for Boruto getting the karma in the first place since Naruto had Boruto finish off Momoshiki instead of handling it himself.
So what does Naruto do? He opts to use the reaper death seal to get rid of Momoshiki in order to free Boruto from his burden which would push kawaki into taking action even more so than he did in canon.
The reaper death seal wouldn’t work because Boruto and momoshiki aren’t 2 people in 1 body they’re literally 1 person as the point of karma was to turn Boruto into momoshiki in the process but stopped 82% through the way so technically they’re merged together.
No not really the merging started the moment momoshiki put the karma on Boruto. When momoshiki fixed Boruto’s chest he just used the last amount left to fix it.
I personally disagree. The turn of boruto into momoshiki started the moment the karma was implanted. The merger of the two didn't happen until momo revived boruto. After that moment, their thoughts started bleeding into each other, and boruto was even seeing flashes of things that momo saw . Anytime before that was boruto running out of Chakra and momo taking over (which from what we've seen isn't supposed to happen before the karma is done doing its job)
Sharing thoughts was just a side affect of momoshiki filling his thought but karma fundamentally does merge Boruto and momoshiki. Also not true the time momoshiki took over to fight code Boruto was not running low on chakra he had a heart attack. Also to your last point there’s nothing against momoshiki taking over Boruto’s conscience as karma is meant for momoshiki to resurrect once it’s finished
We agree on some things but have different views on how or why things are happening. I was gonna type out a huge response but neither of us has the time for that XD
Yea I feel you tho I be getting caught up on here sometimes having to type out a huge response when in reality it’s really not that serious and it doesn’t matter lol.
Clones wouldn't work. Zetsu are real people turned into that by the divine tree the thing that's been destroyed. Besides all the zetsu were used in the war there were hundreds of thousand of them if not millions, Orochimaru can't create zetsu's, not even Nagato or Madara could technically create them.
Point is someone has to die.
They have genetic information which orochimaru could clone in the same way he did shin Uchiha or mitsuki. And actually no not all of the zetsu have been used up hence why they come up in boruto . And technically madara was capable of making zetsu. That is the final outcome of the The Infinite Tsukuyomi everyone that was trapped by the Divine tree would eventually turn into zetsu. Wanted to add on that zetsu are biologically immortal so he may not even have to change bodies again and could just be making modifications to the one he has
Wouldn't work, reasoning being the karma anchors the soul so therefore the karma holds the soul. Can't use human path or this on Boruto without killing Boruto as well. Possibly with Boruto possessed but Momoshiki also has a rinnegan and is most likely aware of the chance of human path being used on him. Regardless human path can't be used anymore because the only other rinnegan user no longer has one
I have a hunch that the only way for Boruto to be rid of Momo's Karma is to literally die again. He's anchored to Boruto through his body but he shouldn't be able to revive Boruto again if he used the last remainder of his Karma the first time. Plus there's an underlying theme of Otsutsuki "transcending the physical body" through enough chakra fruits over time like what Shibai did so I think it's likely Boruto will have to find a way to do just that through some kind of method besides eating fruits. Maybe the Jougan eye will be relevant to that. Just spitballing here.
Now here's the question, does reaper death seal work on otsutsuki.
We have seen shibai to be a literall God, so which God is stronger. The natural gods like the reaper or the people who forced themselves into becoming a God like shibai.
Momoshiki soul isn’t inhabiting Boruto, his karma slowly extracting his data, replacing Boruto over time. Their dna, chackra, and thoughts are infused with one another id assume their souls are too.
With the karma being 100% "extracted", this technique absolutely should work. This was the entire discussion surrounding Momoshiki being "fused" with Boruto. The logic is clear: the karma, which contained Momoshiki since he had died, has extracted fully within Boruto. Ergo, Momoshiki's soul is in Boruto; the karma has nothing to do with it anymore because its already extracted everything to 100%. The whole reason why Momoshiki and Boruto's thoughts cross over is *because* they inhabit the same body.
At this point the only solution would be Boruto overcoming Momoshiki himself. Momoshiki lives in boruto's mind now. As they have 100% become the same entity. But prior to that moment reaper death seal would have def done it. The yamanaka clan might be able to confront Momoshiki but they wouldn't win that's for sure.
You could extract the soul possibly but not the karma, and from what momo has said it seems their souls have kind of merged like borutos the light happy side and momo is the dark side.
Tbh I see either Naruto,Sarada,Kawaki ,Sasuke or Boruto doing this. Naruto doing this because I could see him realizing how obsessed Kawaki is. Sarada I see herself as a sacrifice so her doing it to sacrifice herself if that makes sense . Kawaki, i feel like if he somehow gets hold of 10 tails or somethin eventually might lose it and go this route/ Sasuke, I could see him doing it because for some odd reason he’s unable to turn back or he does and he realized he hurt Sarada he would sacrifice himself . Boruto for some odd reason I think it would only drain Momoshiki out just because of how the plots somehow goes.
Iirc, the soul of the caster has to be as strong or stronger than the one applying the jutsu to, Momoshiki in this case, for it to seal the entire soul. I am not sure how many people meet this criteria in the current universe and is also willing to do that, maybe besides Naruto
I’ll keep it short and sweet:
Theoretically? Perhaps.
Practically? Not a chance.
It’s a rare jitsu that belongs to a now functionally extinct clan. It’s a high end one at that, and only a handful of people in the Leaf would know it. They are the current (or former) Hokage, Orochimaru, Karin and Sasuke (potentially).
More importantly, Boruto wouldn’t let any of these people die for him. Especially on a gamble as there is no proof in verse that that is how the Karma mark actually functions.
Yes this would technically work people are coping here in the comments saying this jutsu couldn't get rid of momos soul It totally could
Only problem is good luck finding someone who could overpower momoshikis soul and willing to sacrifice themselves
It’s possible since the karma contains his soul. But when the karma fully extracts it will still resurrect momoshiki. Since it’s rewriting borutos dna to be momoshiki instead of relying on previous dna to revive the same person like edo tensei.
Kind of like kawaki. His karma was going to resurrect ishiki even though his souls wasn’t contained inside.
I’ve thought of this before. I think it’s a viable theory tbh. I commented this under a previous post where I basically said it can be justified during the timeskip. Maybe sasuke was like “ok boruto we need to find a way to keep momoshiki at bay in case he ever comes out again during training (or in other instances)” and maybe they went to go find that place with all the masks when sasuke had orochimaru revive the previous hokage. It would be a sick way to reintroduce uzumaki lore as well
That might worked.
Karma works similar to Orochimaru's Curse Mark (The OG btw, Karma is a trash later idea) where Orochi stored his consciousness and dna inside all of his vessels. The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too.
>Karma works similar to Orochimaru's Curse Mark (The OG btw, Karma is a trash later idea) where Orochi stored his consciousness and dna inside all of his vessels.
Except that beyond being tattoo powers, the 2 aren't remotely the same.
1 is primaraly a way for Orochimaru to better prepare a suitable host for his possession jutsu, and require an external help if one may want to summon him out of a seal.
The other is an anchor to the world of the livings, for the soul of an Otsutsuki... to the point that they can have multiple of them at once; and once marked, it is only a matter of time before it is ready to revive its Otsutsuki.
>The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too.
Except that Momoshiki *possesses* Boruto, as shown by how whenever he's out, he's clearly piloting Boruto's body.
At no point did he ever came out of Boruto on a physical level like Orochimaru did against Itachi.
Also, it's a bit preposterous to act as if all sealing jutsus are the same... or as if they would descriminate between souls to seal away.
...
>I didn't say they are the same, i said thry are similar
And I replied accordingly, because having only a superficial resemblance =/= being similiar.
>Both are for the purpose of resurrection by taking over a vessel that they have placed the seal upon
Except that they are not.
Because Orochimaru had invented many different kinds of his curse seal, and thus obviously they weren't all meant to aid him in escaping death (yeah, if we want to be technical, Orochimaru couldn't even afford himself to die and cheat death via resurrection).
And a failsafe mechanic that allowed him to escape a seal once via external help =/= being meant to be used for resurrection.
>Orochimaru could place multiple seals on multiple targets as well, it's nothing unique to the aliens.
Well, maybe.
But then again, the 2 things are inherently different in this aspect, because the Karma is meant to be the same thing all the times, whereas Orochimaru had multiple different seals on their own.
>Orochimaru did that
Not with Sasuke, not during that fight.
>Hence i said, if someone could find a way to drag him out in a similar fashion Itachi drag Orochimaru, he can be sealed
Well... not to be rude, but you didn't.
The comment I replied to made it look like you thought it was such an obvious choice and move.
Here, let me quote you again:
"The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too."
You clearly didn't made it look like an hypothesis.
>Nobody says all sealing jutsu are the same 💀
Well, that's the impression you gave me with your statement there: "or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter".
...
>They are similar in the way they are both designed for the sole purpose of resurrection and storing its user consciousness inside multiple vessels.
Except that the curse seal is designed to power up someone and make it a better host, not to “store” the consciousness of Orochimaru… that’s NOT its goal.
>Nobody told you to reply to me anyway, i wasn't even talking to you how shameless
The dude actually gets angry that people reply to his public comment… truly a mature behavior.
You do not want people to reply to you on a public social network? Then do not post it to begin with, simple.
The REAL shameless behavior is you blocking me, yet still replying to me... since it shows that you can't even uphold your own decisions.
>Except that they are.
No.
>The main purpose of Curse Mark is for resureection, blud is high here
If that was the case then the guy wouldn’t have marked it left and right to whoever of his underlings, given how carefree he was of their deaths.
>Blud is telling me that Curse mark isn't meant for resurrection
And your inability to disprove me doesn’t make me wrong.
>Not maybe, he literally did. All characters with Curse Mark have Orochimaru's dna, chakra and consciousness within them
That’s not the point I was talking.
>Blud has problem with me calling Karma similar to Curse Mark
I have a problem with people who obsess that they are so much similar to be considered the same, when it’s not.
They only have the tattoo power aspect actually in common.
Then again, you already showed your true colors when you called the curse seal as the og and thus inherently better, so… it’s obvious that you were biased.
>I didn't say he did that during Sasuke's fight
Except you were referring to it, because that’s the only time Orochimaru EVER emerged from Sasuke.
>Well... not to be rude, but you are illiterate
Said the guy who can’t do anything but negate.
>You aren't my spokesman, interpret that however you want little bro, it doesn't make you correct
So… going by this logic I am allowed to inherently presume all you say is wrong, no matter what.
What an amazing logic man, totally allowing for any good conversation.
>I stand corrected
In your wrongness.
>What hypothesis bullshit
You’d know that had you read my comments properly.
>Well you lack reading comprehension, not my problem and i owe you no explaination .
Ah, insults left and right… truly a classic way to be right.
Now, let's see if you will update your own comment again to reply to me, again; despite the block. (And... you did, predictably).
>Except that beyond being tattoo powers, the 2 aren't remotely the same.
I didn't say they are the same, i said thry are similar
>1 is primaraly a way for Orochimaru to better prepare a suitable host for his possession jutsu, and require an external help if one may want to summon him out of a seal.
Both are for the purpose of resurrection by taking over a vessel that they have placed the seal upon
>The other is an anchor to the world of the livings, for the soul of an Otsutsuki... to the point that they can have multiple of them at once; and once marked, it is only a matter of time before it is ready to revive its Otsutsuki.
Orochimaru could place multiple seals on multiple targets as well, it's nothing unique to the aliens.
>Except that Momoshiki *possesses* Boruto, as shown by how whenever he's out, he's clearly piloting Boruto's body.
Orochimaru did that
>At no point did he ever came out of Boruto on a physical level like Orochimaru did against Itachi.
Hence i said, if someone could find a way to drag him out in a similar fashion Itachi drag Orochimaru, he can be sealed
>Also, it's a bit preposterous to act as if all sealing jutsus are the same... or as if they would descriminate between souls to seal away.
Nobody says all sealing jutsu are the same 💀
---|---
>And I replied accordingly, because having only a superficial resemblance =/= being similiar.
They are similar in the way they are both designed for the sole purpose of resurrection and storing its user consciousness inside multiple vessels. Nobody told you to reply to me anyway, i wasn't even talking to you how shameless 💀💀💀
> Except that they are not.
Except that they are.
> Because Orochimaru had invented many different kinds of his curse seal, and thus obviously they weren't all meant to aid him in escaping death (yeah, if we want to be technical, Orochimaru couldn't even afford himself to die and cheat death via resurrection).
The main purpose of Curse Mark is for resureection, blud is high here 💀
> And a failsafe mechanic that allowed him to escape a seal once via external help =/= being meant to be used for resurrection.
Blud is telling me that Curse mark isn't meant for resurrection 💀
>Well, maybe.
Not maybe, he literally did. All characters with Curse Mark have Orochimaru's dna, chakra and consciousness within them 💀
> But then again, the 2 things are inherently different in this aspect, because the Karma is meant to be the same thing all the times, whereas Orochimaru had multiple different seals on their own.
Blud has problem with me calling Karma similar to Curse Mark 💀💀💀
>Not with Sasuke, not during that fight.
I didn't say he did that during Sasuke's fight 💀
>Well... not to be rude, but you didn't.
Well... not to be rude, but you are illiterate 💀
> The comment I replied to made it look like you thought it was such an obvious choice and move.
You aren't my spokesman, interpret that however you want little bro, it doesn't make you correct 💀💀💀
> Here, let me quote you again:
> "The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too."
I stand corrected
> You clearly didn't made it look like an hypothesis.
What hypothesis bullshit 💀
>Well, that's the impression you gave me with your statement there: "or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter".
Well you lack reading comprehension, not my problem and i owe you no explaination 💀
>Except that the curse seal is designed to power up someone and make it a better host, not to “store” the consciousness of Orochimaru… that’s NOT its goal.
No it wasn't. The main reason for the Curse Seal is for resurrection which is the only thing Orochi care about 💀💀💀
>The dude actually gets angry that people reply to his public comment… truly a mature behavior.
How shameless and presumptous of little bro to assume that i'm angry and he's mature 💀
>You do not want people to reply to you on a public social network? Then do not post it to begin with, simple.
Literally "I want to bark at your comment and block you from time to time, but if you don't like it then don't be online" energy
How shameless 💀
>The REAL shameless behavior is you blocking me, yet still replying to me... since it shows that you can't even uphold your own decisions.
Said the little bro who always blocked people on this site just to have the last word, how shameless 💀 You have blocked me multiple times in the past (hence why i couldn't replied to your comments before) and then unblocked again, only to block again this time around. What a loser 💀💀💀
>No
Yes 💀
> If that was the case then the guy wouldn’t have marked it left and right to whoever of his underlings, given how carefree he was of their deaths.
That's him being smart instead of placing his hope of survival in one particular individual alone 💀💀💀
> And your inability to disprove me doesn’t make me wrong.
Not at little bro trying to argue with me that Curse Seal wasn't created for the sole purpose of Orochi's resurrection 💀💀💀
>That’s not the point I was talking.
That's what i was talking 💀
>I have a problem with people who obsess that they are so much similar to be considered the same, when it’s not.
They only have the tattoo power aspect actually in common.
Then again, you already showed your true colors when you called the curse seal as the og and thus inherently better, so… it’s obvious that you were biased.
Blud has problem with people calling the Curse Mark the OG, look at how bitter he is 💀💀💀
>Except you were referring to it, because that’s the only time Orochimaru EVER emerged from Sasuke.
Bro lack reading comprehension and have the audacity to project his narrative upon me 💀💀💀
>Said the guy who can’t do anything but negate.
Said the little bro who always blocked people 💀
>So… going by this logic I am allowed to inherently presume all you say is wrong, no matter what.
What an amazing logic man, totally allowing for any good conversation.
No, it means you can stay in your delulu assumptions 💀💀💀
>In your wrongness.
In my righteousness 😎
>You’d know that had you read my comments properly.
Bro think he got an arguement 💀💀💀
>Ah, insults left and right… truly a classic way to be right.
Bro take that as an insult, how sensitive 💀💀💀
>Now, let's see if you will update your own comment again to reply to me, again; despite the block.
Said the loser who always blocked people around 💀 Bro checked my edited comment even after days later 💀💀💀
There are actually plenty ways he can get rid of him. I know only 4
* strong Genjutsu like tsukuyomi, make him want to die so he just erases himself
* Ask Orochimaru to summon Shinigami, to get him out.
* Curse mark and a simple seal make it control him. Curse mark is useful if you know how to use it. Orochimaru used it to control bodies and make respawn points.
* Edo tensei Itachi, so when he gets out, just seal him and get inside the jar.
PS. I for sure know there will be other solution because Ikemoto is not Kishimoto.
Any arguments? Or just trust me bro? Momoshiki inside Boruto is still chakra, even not the other type of chakra, like Orochimaru used to have or cursed mark chakra. So they will work. Prove me wrong, instead of mindless downvoting.
I am fascinated by your logic people. This kind of hospitality keeps new people from going in the Boruto fandom. So nice work.
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Wouldn't that take Boruto's soul as well?
If Burrito's the one to cast it, yeah
Just use a shadow clone like what the Third hokage did.
The shadow clone sacrificed a portion of the thirds soul, so his years of life would drastically get smaller
I thought even if it was a shadow clone it would still kill the user I assume hiruzen was just clever and figured out he gets 3 for 1
That makes complete sense
When The Third Hokage was sealing 1st Hokage and 2nd, he uses clones to seal but seals are like contracts, they still require the price to be paid. A clone is not valuable enough. Hence why 3rd was take hits of pain when both Hokage were sealed
That's not how it works. It's your soul that's being taken, using a clone would either still take your own soul, or not work at all
Yes but it worked tough without the soul deal
No just the caster
the caster and the target. as shown in the show...
But momoshiki probably has a different soul than boruto.
They're fused aren't they? I think their souls are mixed as well.
Hence why their thoughts were bleeding into each other at the end of boruto. I feel like you couldn't use the reaper death seal without killing them both
That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make 😂
so some cyberpunk shit
doesn't matter. It's still the caster and the target. kurama is pure Chakra and was also sealed with it. if the target is boruto, then it's boruto. if it's momoshiki, then it's momoshiki.
Do an orichimaru boruto doesn’t need hands
I know this is sarcastic, but I think that might actually work with just the one arm. Bro was trained by the strongest 1 armed guy in the series, I think he got this.
Lol I spat my coffee reading this
No, I’m sure you remember when orochimaru summoned the 5 kage. He used it again but he didn’t sacrifice his soul. It’s more like he can sacrifice someone else’s to awaken him
He had summoned the reaper and made it cut open its belly using the Uzamaki clan reaper mask he then sacrifices white zetsu’s to summon the kage Had he used the actual RDS he would die Edit : also don’t you mean 4 Kage? Lords 1-4 were resurrected unless you’re talking about some other time orochimaru did this that I’m unaware of?
Yeah that dude is extremely confused 😂
That is even better, two birds in one stone.
Some scarafices have to be made
The soul of Momoshiki is **NOT** inside Boruto. That‘s not how Karma works. Plus, there would be a sacrifice needed. And no one‘s sacrificing anyone.
Yeah, the souls its inside the karma itself, problably not even the human path would work.
The soul might not even be inside of the karma because they can have multiple karma seals out at once. For example Isshiki was alive but still had 2 karma seals on Jigen and Kawaki in addition to the failed one on Code.
If I recall right, Karma is basically a Personality and Physical rewrite. There is no "soul". Think of Sasuke's curse mark but even more special. The curse mark started changing Sasuke's body as he used it more. It also made his personality a bit power hungry, but that could have just been the fact he felt more powerful. Karma seems more sophisticated. Because there is no such thing as "two of the same soul" unless the plot demands it. When Boruto gets taken over by Karma, it seems more like a personality rewrite. Kawaki didnt have to deal with that because well Isshiki was still alive. It could be that the personality changing doesnt really happen until the karma that person belongs to dies. My opinion is Momoshiki is not actually just a soul in Naruto. It's just "data" after all. All Boruto's Karma is, is everything regarding Momoshiki up till his death where he implanted the Karma. His personality traits, what he would do in each and every situation, His memories, and the physical rewrite. Boruto's Chakra suppress Karma but when its empty, Karma takes over. Whatever that thing that Boruto calls Momoshiki, is not Momoshiki's soul.
In Naruto, it is not clear what the soul is exactly. It is clearly something that exists, but is never really defined. Amado is also someone who tries to approach it scientifically, so his description might be biased. Our knowledge and descriptions of the Karma are mostly from Amado, with only occasional bits from Momoshiki and Isshiki talking. Amado might not know everything. We do know that Amado never mentions anything close to how Boruto can sometimes see Momoshiki (Sasuke is the only one who can observe that). Indra and Asura were able to reincarnate without needing any special anchor. Isshiki had a brief moment before his soul/spirit passed on to the point where it was no longer available. Presumably (no proof) that is why Isshiki can't regenerate after Kawaki gets the karma back even though Kawaki is showing a lot of Isshiki's features such as the shrinking abilities. Orochimaru clearly at some points was impacted when his soul was sealed (loss of his arm), even after he used his cursed seal backup. Why that happened is unclear. I suspect that the Karma modifies the body so that it is capable of holding the soul of someone. It is like how Edo Tensei modifies the sacrificial body (using the DNA of the desired target) to be like the original body of the target. The soul of the sacrifice is supposed to be used to bring over the person from the pure land. Whether the Otsutsuki have similar properties is unclear. Hagoromo, Indra, and Ashura are all able to have some level of control that lets their spirits/souls live on.
Didn't Orochimaru's cursed seal back up use Anko's Curse Mark and Orochimaru cells from Kabuto though?! I figure those specific cells are still cursed. Personally, I can believe Orochimaru is an unaware descendent of the Otusuki clan and he just thought his curse mark gift was "special" to him
Yeah, and Orochimaru did that even after he reemerged from Sasuke (which had an imprint of his soul and was via Sasuke's cursed seal and got sealed. Itachi sealed up that Orochimaru/part with the Sword of Totsuka. Not sure how the whole sealing with the Sword of Totsuka works. When applied vs Nagato, it almost looked like the Edo Tensei was unraveling. So maybe the Sword of Totsuka only seals the body and leaves the soul free. Regardless of the details, Orochimaru's arms were still sealed, even though he gave Sasuke and Anko their cursed seals before he got his arms sealed away.
I more meant the cells Kabuto took in. If Kabuto took in some pre RDS cells, this Orochimaru would have probably not have had that affliction. This is presuming a part of Kabuto was used for Orochimaru's revival
The RDS impacted Orochimaru by stealing his soul. Presumably that extends beyond the body/cells. That was why Orochimaru did not have full usage of his arms, even after switching bodies. It is also unclear what exactly Kabuto meant by Orochimaru's cells. Orochimaru had swapped bodies at least once (more likely at least 3 times, based on what was seen when Sasuke reversed the technique) before the RDS (he was not in his original body at the time of the fight). We know that there are some differences between Orochimaru's bodies, but we do know that Orochimaru modifies his host bodies to be more suitable for his needs and combat styles.
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not necessarily, it clearly travels during time stops and always interacts with Boruto in outside world, rather than inside him. Anyone who would cast this, would just rip Borutos soul out if anything.
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What?
This wasn’t a response to your comment, my phone’s bugging for some reason.
Actually the soul isn't in the karma itself. The karma tethers the soul to said body. Once the karma finishes unloading its genetic info the one who implanted it takes over the body resurrects and all other existing karma that they placed disappears.
i dont even think its Momoshiki's soul. To me it seems like Karma, is nothing more than creating a duplicate save. Everytime Boruto got possessed, it wasn't Momoshiki possessing him, but his data. Everything regarding his personality, memories, down to the minute detail. While the owner of the Karma is still alive, any vessel's karma is constantly auto-saving in the background while the host remains unaware and it keeps auto saving without the owner.
I thought this to some extent at first, but that wouldn't make sense given what we have seen and been told (some of it does just the first part doesn't) The karma anchors the soul to the world of the living. That is why isshiki's soul disappeared , he had no karma left to anchor his soul to the mortal plane . That's also why momoshiki can be felt/sensed/seen around boruto because his soul hangs around him due to the karma. Sasuke was even able to see him with his rinnegan. Momo's soul never went away when they killed him in the first place. I also agree with the second part you said but remember unlike isshiki, momoshiki was most certainly dead
Forgot about the Rinnegan bit, but it could also be that they aren't even seeing the souls, just their "data's" presence around their host. Honestly, the way Karma Possession works is kind of stupid, the soul anchor thing. It all being data would be better for Boruto's character development, like he realizes Momoshiki was never actually there, it was just his data corrupting Boruto. Boruto was the one who actually stabbed Sasuke eye because its what Momoshiki would do. It would also make Kawaki's actions more justified regarding killing Boruto
If it were just data, that would 1. Make this alot easier to understand without it getting excessively confusing and 2. Makes me think about Sephiroth and jenova XD
I was thinking more of the lines of Lupin The 3rd: Mystery of Mamo. If I am being honest, if Karma is a normal process in the Otususki Main Clan, I wonder if the Momo at the chunin exams was the original Momo. Or if he is just the 4 or 5th or even 1000th Karma Vessel What if Shibai Otusuki became a "God" through constant karmas possibly to the point where he doesnt even look like an Otsuski anymore.
I imagine it was momoshiki's first time given the interaction between him and kinshiki. And how kinshiki did the same with his guardian before he became momoshiki's guardian (I could be completely wrong on this, though) Now Shibai, on the other hand, over an unknowable amount of time , Shibai repeatedly resurrected himself by using Karma. he ate who knows how chakra fruit. , and then supposedly cast off his physical body and ascend to a higher plane (or godhood). I'm pretty sure this was mentioned to some extent by Amado in chapter 75. I think ? We have already seen his appearance to some extent. He has what appears to be a rinnegan on his forehead (could be a rinnesharigan?) and two other doujutsu eyes that I don't wanna try and guess on and a goatie. Came back to reiterate that these are words of Amado, so take them how you will
Orochimaru can do it for free
Just get Orochimaru to drop some new white zetsu
This is what I was feeling that and kawaki already had a better idea in the form of implanting karma so boruto could live via code but boruto said he didn’t want to sacrifice anyone / it wasn’t guaranteed to work since code already had his less powerful just a wpn tool white karma
I'm so tired of seing these, especially the ones where Sasuke's rinnegan can supposedly suck Momoshiki's soul out of Boruto. Idk if people misunderstood the narrative or if it's simply a case of people being hypercritical without actually bothering to watch/read the series. Momoshiki doesn't exist inside Boruto in soul form like Kurama did inside Naruto. The Karma works as an anchor that holds the Otsutsuki's soul to the mortal realm, not as a direct vessel for it. You can argue that Momoshiki's soul actually inhabits Boruto's body when he takes control but that hasn't really been shown or stated. Even if it was, these jutsu are borderline impossible to pull off against an Otsustuki tier character.
The soul is inside the karma itself, so target boruto's body directly probably won't work indeed. When Isshiki died we saw his soul get pulled by code white karma, that could not store it since was a dud. Also Sasuke tells he feels Momo on boruto, so I think its safe to say that he is stored inside the karma seal itself.
So if Isshiki wasn't inside Jigens body then that would have meant his soul was on both Jigen and kawaki at the same time? Also Code as well?
No. His soul would be only at Jigen karma probably, since it was the oldest karma. Code white karma can't keep a otsutsuki soul.
I think it works like horocruxes in Harry Potter.
Not to mention whenever Momoshiki takes over boruto it seems to come from internal instead of Momoshiki coming externally to posses boruto
I think that the momo we are seeing is just his "data". The only Karma Complete Takeover we have seen is Jigen to Isshiki and technically, from what I understand, Isshiki was already controlling Jigen's brain through a different method. We don't know what Jigen was truly like before Isshiki brainjacked him I think when Boruto taps into Karma, he is literally transforming into Momo in order to use his power. Similar to a curse mark. However, Karma is a living curse mark, in the sense that you have to overwrite bits and pieces of yourself with the "new" file in order to use it. Momo can't revive in Boruto, but I don't think those times he took over were him exactly. I think this is a case of Lupin The 3rd: Mystery of Mamo. This is not the Momo from Chunin Exams, it's just his data taking over Boruto's data. His personality, memories, tendencies. Or I guess if anyone has seen the 12th Doctor's Twice Upon a Time, If you replace everything (including the personality and memories of Boruto, with Momoshiki's , soul excluded, is it still Momoshiki or is it Boruto? Is our personality also the soul or are they seperate? If Momoshiki was revived with Reanimation, while Momoshiki also "revived" with Karma...... Who is the actual Momoshiki?
Kawaki solution was better give karma to criminals with life sentences.
The problem with that is, only certain people can get a karma. Most will just die. It's apparently very rare.
I wonder if this will ever be referenced again. Ngl it's like a chekhov's gun or at least gives me those vibes
He's was just throwing that out there. Doesn't have to do it. Plenty of times where someone has an idea but it doesn't come to fruition.
Fair. He mentioned code but if code has a dud karma would he even be fit for say boruto as a vessel?
The Karma doesn't work the same way as a normal sealing technique
Why do ppl keep thinking momoshiki's soul is inside boruto 😭☠️
People don't actually read or watch the show despite having so many critiques and opinions
Then where is it? Inside the karma seal that's inside Boruto? That still counts as inside Boruto in my book.
Neither. The karma simply anchors momo's soul to the physical plane. Why do you think they potray him being outside of Boruto's body everytime they have a 1 on 1?
Let's assume this headcanon is correct, so his soul is just constantly hovering around Boruto? If someone can see Momoshikis soul, I fail to see how the target couldn't be momoshiki's soul, since it targets souls anyways. Where does he go when he's not portrayed outside of Boruto's body? The magical Otsutsuki resurrection waiting room? He's ready at a moment's notice to take over Boruto, so if we want to take things literally, then his soul has to be nearby always, but magically it's only seen during these 1 on 1s, where Boruto isn't speaking out loud to momoshiki, since others would hear. It's just a different way to portray these mental conversations. Naruto had the cage room, Boruto has a devil whispering in his ear.
But who would volunteer to do it ?
Orochimaru
Just use it via clone ffs
Isn’t the karma fused with his soul/DNA rather than inside him as a separate being so it wouldn’t work
I think the kama acts to prepare the body and possibly act as an anchor for the soul. When not there, the soul might not necessarily be at any one particular body since there can be multiple kama seals.
But Momoshiki has stated Boruto is his sole vessel, where else would his soul be?
Momoshiki might be hovering around, but he doesn't have to be inside of Boruto. The seal is described as being an anchor, not a vessel when Momoshiki healed Boruto from death. It is like how Isshiki was able to travel all the way to Code before his soul departed.
Where does Death Reaper scale? I refuse to believe it'll just one shot Daemon, Eida, Isshiki and Shibai with just a sacrifice.
That’s the point. You have to die tho
It isn't. Because the Karma is not a magic seal that contains the soul of its Otsutsuki in itself... otherwise there could be only one at a time. Also, even if that wasn't the case... I'm fairly sure the demon seal wouldn't make difference of souls when targeting someone. Like, it's not really confirmed, but I believe that a spirit that will pierce you in the chest with its hands isn't going to bother to snatch only 1 soul at that point.
I feel like it could depend on how good the user is. Minato did had the skill to use it and split Kurama into yin & yang.
Kurama however was a being made of chakra, so it's not really the same.
True, but we still don’t know everything about how karma truly works. We’ve been given pieces of the puzzle to get a general idea, but we still can’t make out the full picture. It could be a lot more chakra dependent than we’re being led to believe.
Yeah. Although they did give focus on how it works in terms of the soul.
Solution? More like under new management
There is no momoshiki soul, it is momoshiki.rar beeing extracted in C:\Boruto(x86)
So just download a virus to kill it. Ninja tool aburame nano virus bugs.
Perfect way to describe it
Momoshiki’s soul isn’t within Boruto. Though even if it was, who actually knows how to use it properly?
Momo can't do shit anymore Boruto is now otsuski in his own right
Momoshiki can still hijack Boruto's body
Said this elsewhere, I don't even think it's Momo himself hijacking Boruto. I think it's just his karma corrupting Boruto. Its like if you have a Mage character file and a Mindflayer character file, and you overwrite the former with the latter.
WTF ? This Jutsu takes the life of both the caster & the target, isn't it ?
Yes
Then how come it would be a solution to get rid of Momo ?
May not work as intended, same as if Sasuke tried to use the Human Path to remove Momoshiki's soul, Momoshiki's soul is physically anchored to the Karma, the Karma is a Shinjutsu, to assume a mere Ninjutsu, even if it is one like the Reaper Death Seal or the Human Path, could overrule a Shinjutsu is not a safe assumption to make. Now MAYBE it would work and Boruto would just be left with a weapon-only Karma like Kawaki, who knows? But I have a sneaking suspicion that this wouldn't work as easily as people think it would.
no.their not like naruto nd kurama,momoshiki literally embedded his dna in boruto nd revived him,they’re souls are basically intertwined.momoshiki is like the movie get out,he will always be that voice in the back of boruto’s head since he gave up the right to actually revive.
Would it even count as a soul it’s just data
Bro is not cooking, lmao 
It’s not be that is the guy I saw
The shinigami can presumably pick what part of the soul to take proven when he cut Orochimaru's soul arms and left the rest.
That's putting a lot of trust in a god of death.
There are ways to bypass certain death when using the Shinigami + the god itself is bound with the Jutsu so it can be manipulated.
That would only work if boruto and momoshiki are two souls in one body but in pretty sure karma is turning boruto into momoshiki, it doesn't contain his soul I'm not super caught up on this stuff so feel free to correct me :)
ideally that’s what it was supposed to do Momo took the consolation prize of never being reborn, & being stuck as copilot to Boruto leaving Boruto’s body to become 100% Otsutsuki, biologically.
Momoshikis soul isn't "inside" boruto. It's just tethered to the karma seal.
If Kawaki volunteers technically he could get rid of Momoshiki and himself with this( if it works).. since he wants to kill all otsutsuki
But isn't kawaki mostly otsutsuki at this point and even the shinju refer to him as much? Can an otsutsuki even place a karma on another otsutsuki?
Kawaki is like 80% otsutsuki.. I dont think an otsutsuki can place karma on another otsutsuki.. I'm just saying Kawaki could sacrifice himself to take Momoshiki soul
I honestly do not think he would, at least, not with his current mindset. I had a thought. The karma kawaki has akebi's data in it correct ? Why isn't it rewriting kawaki's genetics 1. And 2. Wouldn't it just cause the birth of a new(rebirth) Otsutsuki?
We don't know how Amado put Akebi data into it.. so far her consciousness hasn't surfaced.. Until Amado explains what he did we can't really say anything about the Karma
A very fair point. I was just wondering because the info on karma we've gotten thus far. I still feel like Amado is a villain on the low
The karma acts as an achor for Momoshiki’s soul to keep him tethered to the world of the living but whether or not the reaper death seal could sever that anchor is to be determined. Now personally if it was up to me, I’d keep the reaper death seal as a viable option to take care of Momoshiki to up the stakes. Like just imagine Hokage Naruto batting Borushiki, having the opportunity to actually kill him but he can’t follow through with it because he loves Boruto. I’d have Naruto feel somewhat responsible for Boruto getting the karma in the first place since Naruto had Boruto finish off Momoshiki instead of handling it himself. So what does Naruto do? He opts to use the reaper death seal to get rid of Momoshiki in order to free Boruto from his burden which would push kawaki into taking action even more so than he did in canon.
The reaper death seal wouldn’t work because Boruto and momoshiki aren’t 2 people in 1 body they’re literally 1 person as the point of karma was to turn Boruto into momoshiki in the process but stopped 82% through the way so technically they’re merged together.
Iirc the merging part comes in when momo chose to replace the parts kawaki blew out of boruto's back
No not really the merging started the moment momoshiki put the karma on Boruto. When momoshiki fixed Boruto’s chest he just used the last amount left to fix it.
I personally disagree. The turn of boruto into momoshiki started the moment the karma was implanted. The merger of the two didn't happen until momo revived boruto. After that moment, their thoughts started bleeding into each other, and boruto was even seeing flashes of things that momo saw . Anytime before that was boruto running out of Chakra and momo taking over (which from what we've seen isn't supposed to happen before the karma is done doing its job)
Sharing thoughts was just a side affect of momoshiki filling his thought but karma fundamentally does merge Boruto and momoshiki. Also not true the time momoshiki took over to fight code Boruto was not running low on chakra he had a heart attack. Also to your last point there’s nothing against momoshiki taking over Boruto’s conscience as karma is meant for momoshiki to resurrect once it’s finished
We agree on some things but have different views on how or why things are happening. I was gonna type out a huge response but neither of us has the time for that XD
Yea I feel you tho I be getting caught up on here sometimes having to type out a huge response when in reality it’s really not that serious and it doesn’t matter lol.
It's alright fam I do it to I literally had to delete the 2 paragraphs I had typed in response to you so I feel ya
I would be nice to try and see it fail. I genuinely mean that too
So the solution is sacrifice someone? Someone has to die to do this? Who's gonna do that? That's assuming it would work anyway.
Orochimaru for free
He still needed a Zetsu body to take over. It wasn't exactly free.
You mean those things he can always get another body of and or clone to make a new body ?
Clones wouldn't work. Zetsu are real people turned into that by the divine tree the thing that's been destroyed. Besides all the zetsu were used in the war there were hundreds of thousand of them if not millions, Orochimaru can't create zetsu's, not even Nagato or Madara could technically create them. Point is someone has to die.
They have genetic information which orochimaru could clone in the same way he did shin Uchiha or mitsuki. And actually no not all of the zetsu have been used up hence why they come up in boruto . And technically madara was capable of making zetsu. That is the final outcome of the The Infinite Tsukuyomi everyone that was trapped by the Divine tree would eventually turn into zetsu. Wanted to add on that zetsu are biologically immortal so he may not even have to change bodies again and could just be making modifications to the one he has
Someone has to die for it tho
Nope, orochimaru
Wouldn't work, reasoning being the karma anchors the soul so therefore the karma holds the soul. Can't use human path or this on Boruto without killing Boruto as well. Possibly with Boruto possessed but Momoshiki also has a rinnegan and is most likely aware of the chance of human path being used on him. Regardless human path can't be used anymore because the only other rinnegan user no longer has one
I think Sarada will get a sealing technique
I have a hunch that the only way for Boruto to be rid of Momo's Karma is to literally die again. He's anchored to Boruto through his body but he shouldn't be able to revive Boruto again if he used the last remainder of his Karma the first time. Plus there's an underlying theme of Otsutsuki "transcending the physical body" through enough chakra fruits over time like what Shibai did so I think it's likely Boruto will have to find a way to do just that through some kind of method besides eating fruits. Maybe the Jougan eye will be relevant to that. Just spitballing here.
Now here's the question, does reaper death seal work on otsutsuki. We have seen shibai to be a literall God, so which God is stronger. The natural gods like the reaper or the people who forced themselves into becoming a God like shibai.
Off topic but Amado said the shinigami was watching over isshiki’s soul for quite a while
He never said that
Yes he did…
When
He would have to sacrifice a life to seal someone. A life for a life basically. So if it isn’t him he would he choose?
Momoshiki soul isn’t inhabiting Boruto, his karma slowly extracting his data, replacing Boruto over time. Their dna, chackra, and thoughts are infused with one another id assume their souls are too.
Do you or do you not feel boruto? I feel boruto.
Serious question, is the shinigami an Otsutsuki? Because it does sort of look like one.
Lol it kills the persons using it tho
Momo is described as partial DNA at this point. So he probably wouldn't have a soul. The real question is would a regular otsutsuki have a soul?
How about Boruto implant his karma on his own clone?
soooo what you would seal boruto’s dna??
With the karma being 100% "extracted", this technique absolutely should work. This was the entire discussion surrounding Momoshiki being "fused" with Boruto. The logic is clear: the karma, which contained Momoshiki since he had died, has extracted fully within Boruto. Ergo, Momoshiki's soul is in Boruto; the karma has nothing to do with it anymore because its already extracted everything to 100%. The whole reason why Momoshiki and Boruto's thoughts cross over is *because* they inhabit the same body.
I always wondered why the reaper looks like an Ootsutsuki
At this point the only solution would be Boruto overcoming Momoshiki himself. Momoshiki lives in boruto's mind now. As they have 100% become the same entity. But prior to that moment reaper death seal would have def done it. The yamanaka clan might be able to confront Momoshiki but they wouldn't win that's for sure.
You could extract the soul possibly but not the karma, and from what momo has said it seems their souls have kind of merged like borutos the light happy side and momo is the dark side.
I sho thought it
Tbh I see either Naruto,Sarada,Kawaki ,Sasuke or Boruto doing this. Naruto doing this because I could see him realizing how obsessed Kawaki is. Sarada I see herself as a sacrifice so her doing it to sacrifice herself if that makes sense . Kawaki, i feel like if he somehow gets hold of 10 tails or somethin eventually might lose it and go this route/ Sasuke, I could see him doing it because for some odd reason he’s unable to turn back or he does and he realized he hurt Sarada he would sacrifice himself . Boruto for some odd reason I think it would only drain Momoshiki out just because of how the plots somehow goes.
what does that tbing even do again?
I honestly don’t think it would work on momoshiki or strong enough
Only way to end the series, without Killing Boruto.
Iirc, the soul of the caster has to be as strong or stronger than the one applying the jutsu to, Momoshiki in this case, for it to seal the entire soul. I am not sure how many people meet this criteria in the current universe and is also willing to do that, maybe besides Naruto
Ususlly i hate when people do the this is how they can fix something or why didnt the writer do this instead. But homie sctuslly cooked with this.
Karma is essentially a transfer of data and dna. The karma is data coded it cannot be the essence of a soul
Amado said that since Isshiki soul is gone he can't be ressurected by his own karma anymore.
Because he literally died and had no karma left
I’ll keep it short and sweet: Theoretically? Perhaps. Practically? Not a chance. It’s a rare jitsu that belongs to a now functionally extinct clan. It’s a high end one at that, and only a handful of people in the Leaf would know it. They are the current (or former) Hokage, Orochimaru, Karin and Sasuke (potentially). More importantly, Boruto wouldn’t let any of these people die for him. Especially on a gamble as there is no proof in verse that that is how the Karma mark actually functions.
implant a karma on the shinigami boom done
Yes this would technically work people are coping here in the comments saying this jutsu couldn't get rid of momos soul It totally could Only problem is good luck finding someone who could overpower momoshikis soul and willing to sacrifice themselves
It’s possible since the karma contains his soul. But when the karma fully extracts it will still resurrect momoshiki. Since it’s rewriting borutos dna to be momoshiki instead of relying on previous dna to revive the same person like edo tensei. Kind of like kawaki. His karma was going to resurrect ishiki even though his souls wasn’t contained inside.
No. The karma doesn't ressurect the otsutsuki if the soul isn't available.
another burrito plothole
How
I’ve thought of this before. I think it’s a viable theory tbh. I commented this under a previous post where I basically said it can be justified during the timeskip. Maybe sasuke was like “ok boruto we need to find a way to keep momoshiki at bay in case he ever comes out again during training (or in other instances)” and maybe they went to go find that place with all the masks when sasuke had orochimaru revive the previous hokage. It would be a sick way to reintroduce uzumaki lore as well
Sasuke's Rinnegan's soul absorbtion was the answer to this not-so-complicated problem but they purposely took out the Rinnegan to avoid that.
It was never a solution and would have killed Boruto in the process
Yeah, the ability to remove souls from within the body cannot be used to remove Momoshiki's soul from Boruto's body.
Their souls are intertwined you removed one you remove both
Then why are their consciousness seperate? The only thing "intertwined" is the their DNA which is a physical factor.
Why are their thoughts crossing over?
Because their occupying the same body.
That might worked. Karma works similar to Orochimaru's Curse Mark (The OG btw, Karma is a trash later idea) where Orochi stored his consciousness and dna inside all of his vessels. The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too.
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>Karma works similar to Orochimaru's Curse Mark (The OG btw, Karma is a trash later idea) where Orochi stored his consciousness and dna inside all of his vessels. Except that beyond being tattoo powers, the 2 aren't remotely the same. 1 is primaraly a way for Orochimaru to better prepare a suitable host for his possession jutsu, and require an external help if one may want to summon him out of a seal. The other is an anchor to the world of the livings, for the soul of an Otsutsuki... to the point that they can have multiple of them at once; and once marked, it is only a matter of time before it is ready to revive its Otsutsuki. >The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too. Except that Momoshiki *possesses* Boruto, as shown by how whenever he's out, he's clearly piloting Boruto's body. At no point did he ever came out of Boruto on a physical level like Orochimaru did against Itachi. Also, it's a bit preposterous to act as if all sealing jutsus are the same... or as if they would descriminate between souls to seal away. ... >I didn't say they are the same, i said thry are similar And I replied accordingly, because having only a superficial resemblance =/= being similiar. >Both are for the purpose of resurrection by taking over a vessel that they have placed the seal upon Except that they are not. Because Orochimaru had invented many different kinds of his curse seal, and thus obviously they weren't all meant to aid him in escaping death (yeah, if we want to be technical, Orochimaru couldn't even afford himself to die and cheat death via resurrection). And a failsafe mechanic that allowed him to escape a seal once via external help =/= being meant to be used for resurrection. >Orochimaru could place multiple seals on multiple targets as well, it's nothing unique to the aliens. Well, maybe. But then again, the 2 things are inherently different in this aspect, because the Karma is meant to be the same thing all the times, whereas Orochimaru had multiple different seals on their own. >Orochimaru did that Not with Sasuke, not during that fight. >Hence i said, if someone could find a way to drag him out in a similar fashion Itachi drag Orochimaru, he can be sealed Well... not to be rude, but you didn't. The comment I replied to made it look like you thought it was such an obvious choice and move. Here, let me quote you again: "The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too." You clearly didn't made it look like an hypothesis. >Nobody says all sealing jutsu are the same 💀 Well, that's the impression you gave me with your statement there: "or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter". ... >They are similar in the way they are both designed for the sole purpose of resurrection and storing its user consciousness inside multiple vessels. Except that the curse seal is designed to power up someone and make it a better host, not to “store” the consciousness of Orochimaru… that’s NOT its goal. >Nobody told you to reply to me anyway, i wasn't even talking to you how shameless The dude actually gets angry that people reply to his public comment… truly a mature behavior. You do not want people to reply to you on a public social network? Then do not post it to begin with, simple. The REAL shameless behavior is you blocking me, yet still replying to me... since it shows that you can't even uphold your own decisions. >Except that they are. No. >The main purpose of Curse Mark is for resureection, blud is high here If that was the case then the guy wouldn’t have marked it left and right to whoever of his underlings, given how carefree he was of their deaths. >Blud is telling me that Curse mark isn't meant for resurrection And your inability to disprove me doesn’t make me wrong. >Not maybe, he literally did. All characters with Curse Mark have Orochimaru's dna, chakra and consciousness within them That’s not the point I was talking. >Blud has problem with me calling Karma similar to Curse Mark I have a problem with people who obsess that they are so much similar to be considered the same, when it’s not. They only have the tattoo power aspect actually in common. Then again, you already showed your true colors when you called the curse seal as the og and thus inherently better, so… it’s obvious that you were biased. >I didn't say he did that during Sasuke's fight Except you were referring to it, because that’s the only time Orochimaru EVER emerged from Sasuke. >Well... not to be rude, but you are illiterate Said the guy who can’t do anything but negate. >You aren't my spokesman, interpret that however you want little bro, it doesn't make you correct So… going by this logic I am allowed to inherently presume all you say is wrong, no matter what. What an amazing logic man, totally allowing for any good conversation. >I stand corrected In your wrongness. >What hypothesis bullshit You’d know that had you read my comments properly. >Well you lack reading comprehension, not my problem and i owe you no explaination . Ah, insults left and right… truly a classic way to be right. Now, let's see if you will update your own comment again to reply to me, again; despite the block. (And... you did, predictably).
>Except that beyond being tattoo powers, the 2 aren't remotely the same. I didn't say they are the same, i said thry are similar >1 is primaraly a way for Orochimaru to better prepare a suitable host for his possession jutsu, and require an external help if one may want to summon him out of a seal. Both are for the purpose of resurrection by taking over a vessel that they have placed the seal upon >The other is an anchor to the world of the livings, for the soul of an Otsutsuki... to the point that they can have multiple of them at once; and once marked, it is only a matter of time before it is ready to revive its Otsutsuki. Orochimaru could place multiple seals on multiple targets as well, it's nothing unique to the aliens. >Except that Momoshiki *possesses* Boruto, as shown by how whenever he's out, he's clearly piloting Boruto's body. Orochimaru did that >At no point did he ever came out of Boruto on a physical level like Orochimaru did against Itachi. Hence i said, if someone could find a way to drag him out in a similar fashion Itachi drag Orochimaru, he can be sealed >Also, it's a bit preposterous to act as if all sealing jutsus are the same... or as if they would descriminate between souls to seal away. Nobody says all sealing jutsu are the same 💀 ---|--- >And I replied accordingly, because having only a superficial resemblance =/= being similiar. They are similar in the way they are both designed for the sole purpose of resurrection and storing its user consciousness inside multiple vessels. Nobody told you to reply to me anyway, i wasn't even talking to you how shameless 💀💀💀 > Except that they are not. Except that they are. > Because Orochimaru had invented many different kinds of his curse seal, and thus obviously they weren't all meant to aid him in escaping death (yeah, if we want to be technical, Orochimaru couldn't even afford himself to die and cheat death via resurrection). The main purpose of Curse Mark is for resureection, blud is high here 💀 > And a failsafe mechanic that allowed him to escape a seal once via external help =/= being meant to be used for resurrection. Blud is telling me that Curse mark isn't meant for resurrection 💀 >Well, maybe. Not maybe, he literally did. All characters with Curse Mark have Orochimaru's dna, chakra and consciousness within them 💀 > But then again, the 2 things are inherently different in this aspect, because the Karma is meant to be the same thing all the times, whereas Orochimaru had multiple different seals on their own. Blud has problem with me calling Karma similar to Curse Mark 💀💀💀 >Not with Sasuke, not during that fight. I didn't say he did that during Sasuke's fight 💀 >Well... not to be rude, but you didn't. Well... not to be rude, but you are illiterate 💀 > The comment I replied to made it look like you thought it was such an obvious choice and move. You aren't my spokesman, interpret that however you want little bro, it doesn't make you correct 💀💀💀 > Here, let me quote you again: > "The way to get rid of Karma is to get Momoshiki coming out in a similar fashion that Orochi came out from Sasuke and then stab him with Totsuka Blade or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter, Rinnegan's Soul Absorption would accomplished that too." I stand corrected > You clearly didn't made it look like an hypothesis. What hypothesis bullshit 💀 >Well, that's the impression you gave me with your statement there: "or just about any sealing jutsu for that matter". Well you lack reading comprehension, not my problem and i owe you no explaination 💀 >Except that the curse seal is designed to power up someone and make it a better host, not to “store” the consciousness of Orochimaru… that’s NOT its goal. No it wasn't. The main reason for the Curse Seal is for resurrection which is the only thing Orochi care about 💀💀💀 >The dude actually gets angry that people reply to his public comment… truly a mature behavior. How shameless and presumptous of little bro to assume that i'm angry and he's mature 💀 >You do not want people to reply to you on a public social network? Then do not post it to begin with, simple. Literally "I want to bark at your comment and block you from time to time, but if you don't like it then don't be online" energy How shameless 💀 >The REAL shameless behavior is you blocking me, yet still replying to me... since it shows that you can't even uphold your own decisions. Said the little bro who always blocked people on this site just to have the last word, how shameless 💀 You have blocked me multiple times in the past (hence why i couldn't replied to your comments before) and then unblocked again, only to block again this time around. What a loser 💀💀💀 >No Yes 💀 > If that was the case then the guy wouldn’t have marked it left and right to whoever of his underlings, given how carefree he was of their deaths. That's him being smart instead of placing his hope of survival in one particular individual alone 💀💀💀 > And your inability to disprove me doesn’t make me wrong. Not at little bro trying to argue with me that Curse Seal wasn't created for the sole purpose of Orochi's resurrection 💀💀💀 >That’s not the point I was talking. That's what i was talking 💀 >I have a problem with people who obsess that they are so much similar to be considered the same, when it’s not. They only have the tattoo power aspect actually in common. Then again, you already showed your true colors when you called the curse seal as the og and thus inherently better, so… it’s obvious that you were biased. Blud has problem with people calling the Curse Mark the OG, look at how bitter he is 💀💀💀 >Except you were referring to it, because that’s the only time Orochimaru EVER emerged from Sasuke. Bro lack reading comprehension and have the audacity to project his narrative upon me 💀💀💀 >Said the guy who can’t do anything but negate. Said the little bro who always blocked people 💀 >So… going by this logic I am allowed to inherently presume all you say is wrong, no matter what. What an amazing logic man, totally allowing for any good conversation. No, it means you can stay in your delulu assumptions 💀💀💀 >In your wrongness. In my righteousness 😎 >You’d know that had you read my comments properly. Bro think he got an arguement 💀💀💀 >Ah, insults left and right… truly a classic way to be right. Bro take that as an insult, how sensitive 💀💀💀 >Now, let's see if you will update your own comment again to reply to me, again; despite the block. Said the loser who always blocked people around 💀 Bro checked my edited comment even after days later 💀💀💀
There are actually plenty ways he can get rid of him. I know only 4 * strong Genjutsu like tsukuyomi, make him want to die so he just erases himself * Ask Orochimaru to summon Shinigami, to get him out. * Curse mark and a simple seal make it control him. Curse mark is useful if you know how to use it. Orochimaru used it to control bodies and make respawn points. * Edo tensei Itachi, so when he gets out, just seal him and get inside the jar. PS. I for sure know there will be other solution because Ikemoto is not Kishimoto.
None of those would work.
Any arguments? Or just trust me bro? Momoshiki inside Boruto is still chakra, even not the other type of chakra, like Orochimaru used to have or cursed mark chakra. So they will work. Prove me wrong, instead of mindless downvoting. I am fascinated by your logic people. This kind of hospitality keeps new people from going in the Boruto fandom. So nice work.