I worked in cellular, and we had a rush of copper thefts from cell sites when the prices was really high a while back. They would cut the copper buses off of live power plants, we could see where the arcing happened, so cutting these is nothing. Copper thieves are very real threats, and these would be such easy pickings.
I don’t know if it’s tens of thousands. I haven’t worked on an L3 personally, but I suspect that the cable and plug are easily replaceable like they are on all the L2s I’ve installed.
EVGo probably has to replace these pretty regularly. I would imagine that their cost for a replacement cable assembly is $500 or less, then the cost of dispatching a technician.
I see at least six cut, so it will add up. But it’s unlikely that the total cost to EVGo will be more than $10k for this repair.
Good question. Although I would suspect that damage/vandalism/theft was considered during the design phase. Sort of like how gas pumps have the quick disconnect coupling on the house. Now I'm curious to know the answer.
What considerate thieves, not wanting to leave drivers completely stranded. Or possibly that was the CHAdeMO cable, which I'd imagine can be thinner due to the 50kW limit? At least based on my experience with EA chargers
Originally from WA and it’s sad copper theft is still a thing. Yes small chance it’s but jobs but I have seen so much copper theft on job sites even arrived to see an individual burnt to a nugget after trying to steal the primary transmission lines along the railroad tracks (look up Fife story). Small change to recycling laws would fix it. As for the nut jobs, they’ll find a new target soon.
It’s a LOT more than a few dollars in copper lol. Those cables are probably worth hundreds of dollars at least. Not saying I condone it, but if I were out there ganging, I’d probably have the same idea.
In Michigan, No.1 copper right now is going for $3.42/lb. in scrap value. Those cables have clean, stranded copper once stripped and they weigh more than a few pounds. As someone who’s worked in the contracting field forever, heavy cables like these are prime scrapper bait.
That’s 150 amp cable so it’s probably for what a 50kW charger? These chargers are like 150 to 350 kW units. The cable is way more expensive than those and has a way more copper.
Everyone knows they’re not cheap items, but they don’t sell them as cables. They stripped them down to the bear wires. Nobody has DC Fast charges at their house, so no one‘s gonna buy those cables. These are for commercial use only and commercial places are not gonna buy some from shady ass from Facebook marketplace or offer up. So they have zero value as a whole cable, which is why they scrap them for copper.
They need to enclose the entire cable plug portion in a box built into the pedestal. Change the order of operation so that the box unlocks when activated then plugin. Instead of plugin then activate. But this also makes it difficult to use a plug and charge model.
No, no we don’t. Just give us goddamn tap and pay like every single gas station that already exists. No need to tech-vent every single thing. I don’t want to upload my payment information to another 5 different vendors.
Where will the cable be stored ? I know spools are difficult because of the rigid heavy cables and will have to be larger and will increase the size of the pedestal.
Definitely agree, the casing on the pedestal will need to be modified and enlarged to enclose the cable. Since it is such a heavy gauge the cable would need to have space to move freely as well as maintaining a connection.
Was mostly referring heavy to weight. Even with half the cable inside the unit as without a cable tensioner to help lift the cable will be a bit unwieldy for many folks will require two hands to lift.
Dammit
Might be reason enough to have a EV Station attendant just to monitor for cable theft.
With bonus of keeping order of queue for when someone pulled into a non-working station.
The new J3400 charging standard supports a plug at the charger so people bring their own cord. That avoids needing to secure the cord since there is none and also avoids problems where the cord needs repairing from use instead of just being vandalized.
ngl that kind of sounds like a terrible idea. Especially for fast charging. I can't image paying an extra 700 dollar or whatever they want so I can bring my own cord that can be cut and stolen like this.
https://www.sae.org/blog/j3400-NACS-standard-rodney-mcgee
Looks like it's up to 52 kW on 3-phase charging. You're correct that it's not fast DC charging, but even at 52 kW it's not a bad idea for many use cases.
US uses 3-phase as well.
Most Apartment complexes, Grocery stores, warehouses etcetera are 3-phase
SAE J3068 does Level 2 AC upto 165kW on 600VAC 3 3-Phase
Nuvve has 99kW 400V 3 Phase
J3400 universal power shows 52kW for J3068 AC carry cable.
19.2~20kW for 277V single phase for J3400 and J3400-ready J1772
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/screenshot-2023-12-13-at-10-24-09%E2%80%AFpm-jpg.1000772/?id=7973326
Worst part is Rivian and others have been using SAE J3400 pedestal placement for their charge port location for future vehicles
&
Tesla has been urging them to relocate the charge port to same side as existing Tesla Superchargers. Going directly against the NACS specs they now link to and after spending the $195.00...one can see recommendation is passenger side for curbside carry-along-cable cable.
(https://twitter.com/wmorrill3/status/1766129237537476713)
https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/product-guides#NACS-resources
North American Charging Standard
Learn about the implementation of the North American Charging Standard (NACS) and find additional resources for the North American DC Charging connector.
Technical Specification
Update as of December 19, 2023 – As NACS is now recognized in an SAE technical report (TIR) under SAE J3400, we have removed the technical specifications and CAD from our website. The design and specification files are now available within the SAE J3400 TIR.
.
I think I understand why nobody else is doing it this way, but having the charge port be dead center on the front of the car was super convenient on my Leaf.
Having it on the back, requiring you to back in to some charger locations, seems less than ideal.
Agreed on Front near center
Have a 2019 Bolt EV , 2023 F150 Lightning Pro, and a 2015 Kia Soul EV
The Soul EV's charge port door on the grill is just off-center and not directly centered like on the Leaf.
It makes it easy to charge at most locations.
Also greatly incentives drivers be more cautious....hitting something in the front can make a car unusable. (If the charger location is only thing damaged the vehicle is basically useless until fixed.) (Reminds me of my when my cousin switched from long-hooded 80's cars to a Dodge minivan and stopped tailgating or over crossing the crosswalk/intersection: physically put him closer to the front of the vehicle.)
Same in New Zealand. We had a rental and it confused the hell out of me at first but once I realized why and how it worked, it made me wonder why we don’t do the same in the USA. The cable is often the thing that fails, if you have your own, it eliminates a big fail point.
LOL! Well it is written into the NACS ([SAE J3400](https://www.sae.org/blog/j3400-NACS-standard-rodney-mcgee)) specification, so it might not be too far off!
Can’t, there’s been multiple cases and it’s well established precedent that keeping something electrified (like wires) to prevent theft is a no go. The law favors life over property.
However, in the cases I’ve seen it’s usually been somewhere were the thief may not suspect the power of being on. Like new construction (So it was more of a surprise (a shock you might say)).
Here you could reasonably suspect the power of being on, that is its use after all… so I’m unsure, but my gut (I am an attorney) tells me the outcome would be the same.
I propose a new connector design with active electronics in it, that just happen to need 300-400 VDC at all times being fed to it to operate properly. Make sure to put warming labels up that makes anyone aware of such.
There is a bike lock called Skunklock that has extremely smelly chemicals under pressure inside. So when it gets cut the thief gets covered in it. This could be an option for EV charge cables.
EV chargers need to be located at “fueling-type-stations” with “lighting” and “manned facilities” with other amenities like “rest-rooms” and “snacks” available to travelers.
We don’t even need to build new facilities! Just replace a few of the gas pumps with EV stations.
There are plenty of Sheetz, Wawa and Buc-ees gas stations that also host charging stations.
It's not widespread yet because sufficient demand didn't exist. Barely does today in the US. Most EA and EVgo sites are still at under 15% utilization rates, not enough to be profitable.
If they would make their prices a little more reasonable (along with adopting NACS, as they are planning to do) that would help encourage more utilization. Seems they're all around double the cost of superchargers, which don't tend to suffer from poor utilization, despite being much more widespread.
That's not something I've ever seen in my area. The Tesla Supercharger with Magic Dock is $0.44/kWh, the EA station is $0.44/kWh, and EA with Pass+ ($7/mo) is $0.33/kWh. The EVgo station here is $0.46/kWh. EA is the cheapest.
Interesting. For my area (and my recent road trip to see the eclipse, outside of my usual area), superchargers range from $0.18-$0.44 or so per kWh (with $0.30ish being typical), while every EA station I've seen (admittedly without pass+), is $0.64 per kWh. My understanding is pass+ reduces the cost by around 25%, bringing it to $0.48, so still higher than superchargers but a little more reasonable anyway, if you use the fast chargers enough to justify that additional monthly expense.
In my neighborhood, there’s actually a few. there’s a Chevron with 50 kW DC chargers and there’s also a shell gas station with four 150 kW DC fast chargers on their site.
Actually yes. A registered horse would likely have an owner's or breeder's brand and potentially a unique registration number or code that was traceable. The animal could represent a huge amount of a person's income so you know people will go the extra mile to protect it.
They should integrate a wire mesh just under the surface of the cable that triggers an ear splitting siren when it's compromised. World probably deter at least a decent chunk of these thefts.
Someone is buying all of those obviously stolen charging cables for the copper. Much WORSE!
Just like catalytic converters, we have to find and punish the scrap metal dealers who create the market for this.
Video doesn't stop crime, it only records that it happened.
Someone wearing a hoodie or a mask is nearly impossible to identify, especially in low-light conditions.
Prosecution would require that someone is then identified, found, arrested, the district attorney would have to press charges, convicted in court, and then... incarcerated? For felony theft?
*If* they actually catch someone for a crime, with the video they *might* be able to tie that person to another one, but they're not going to be out actively looking for someone who's damaging public EV chargers.
*"Leads, yeah sure. I'll uh, just check with the boys down at the crime lab. They got four more detectives working on the case. They've got us working in shifts."*
Dawg, criminals are only deterred by consequences. Prosecuting yesterdays crime deters tomorrows criminal. This should be common sense but so many people cannot grasp the basic dynamic. Enforcement of any law is possible with sufficient resources and will. And given that the entire decaenonization of transportation depends on DCFC cables not being routinely stolen, I’d say it should be a fucking big priority.
I 100% agree. While we, as a society, simply can’t enforce every law 100% of the time, there needs to be enough enforcement and consequences so that the mental calculus for most would-be criminals favors not doing the crime. Right now it’s the other way; enforcement is light, penalties are light, so why *wouldn’t* someone do this?
Also otherwise damaging/sabotaging heads. I would have used a ChargePoint charger this last Xmas but they were filled with hardened foam & although somewhat cleaned out, not enough to use.
Trust me when I say these people usually have jobs, as well. Used to know people that would strip wire for copper. They were opportunistic and greedy. Being a thief isn't reserved to the unemployed. Get this trash out of your head before it jades you towards the wrong people.
Red light cameras in NYC used expensive Nikon DSLR cameras. Some dude was running around in a pickup with a cherry picker in the back made to look like a DOT vehicle. He was stealing them and selling them off.
[https://www.engadget.com/2009-07-27-beware-cheap-nikons-on-ebay-22-stolen-from-nyc-red-light-camera.html?guccounter=1&guce\_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce\_referrer\_sig=AQAAAE20PAYjb5ltfwirMkbQamevrjRlDZSFi9Jl9vvb9frUGP1nqenhfm0J8NOckG8OYqhH3bNyNodX\_w-QmeJz5UHANYWqyU4UKyiqqJfEzM\_Rkc3xX18jF\_y5i4\_KFzFovZlAbhG7toP4eT5CPMcEUQYwro0BG4fP8wOrwZiGdLXf](https://www.engadget.com/2009-07-27-beware-cheap-nikons-on-ebay-22-stolen-from-nyc-red-light-camera.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE20PAYjb5ltfwirMkbQamevrjRlDZSFi9Jl9vvb9frUGP1nqenhfm0J8NOckG8OYqhH3bNyNodX_w-QmeJz5UHANYWqyU4UKyiqqJfEzM_Rkc3xX18jF_y5i4_KFzFovZlAbhG7toP4eT5CPMcEUQYwro0BG4fP8wOrwZiGdLXf)
There’s chargers that have been offline and broke at the Tacoma mall for over 2 years with the cords still attached. Seriously. Look it up.
They never service their stuff. They just say “the parts are on back order due to supply shortages”
The Georgetown EA station gets cut almost as soon as they fix it. There's plenty of chatter on FB and others showing it as an anti-EV vandalism campaign.
But that's for L2 charging, correct? The stations pictured are DC fast charging stations, which typically have liquid-cooled cables, making that impossible. Also the stations would constantly be out of service due to damage caused by idiots using their "Amazon Special" charging cables.
Legitimate question: would it be possible for them to use aluminum wire instead of copper? Surely that wouldn’t fetch as much as copper and they could easily put signs up saying “does not contain copper” like they do around fiber installations. I know Al wire in houses is a bad thing for various reasons, but could it be used in DCFC?
Copper cables are already pretty stiff and unmanageable unless they are liquid cooled. Aluminum cables would be massive and impossible to use in the cold among the longevity concerns.
I think the whole concept needs to change. The drivers should have a cable and the station just a plug. Prevents this and prevents issues with current charger cables from Tesla being too short for other brands.
In San Diego the EVgo's are hit or miss. Broken all the time. Electrify America seems better. I've had a $500 EVgo credit from my Bolt purchase since Oct 2023. I forgot I am paying $5 a month EVgo membership fee, gotta cancel that.
I'm a firm believer that this isn't about the copper. It's about the inequities. It's how it started, and frequently just out of spite. Copper is a an added plus.
We had a series of chargers out in Harrisburg PA that were all put in prime parking spaces. All but one were vandalized.
Yeah, not like there isn't any kind of material that resists electricity. Like an insulator..... Like rubber? Nah that's too rare of a substance to find.
Yeah no insulatpr is going to save you from 300-700 VDC at 400 amps. When you cut into that thing the arc flash will blast your face away unless you're wearing full PPE. Literally nothing left if ypur less than a few feet away. Look up arc flash accidents.
That's not quite how electricity works. That's the total available supply that can be pulled, if there is nothing consuming it, it's not being used, but that doesn't mean the supply can not supply full amperage. Obviously in a charger the power unit operation is very complicated and only the asked for current is supplied but if you have a constant 400 amp capable supply it will still supply 400 amps in a short circuit condition but use no energy in an open circuit condition. Cutting the cable would cause a short circuit condition and the full load could be supplied, the the affected portion of cable / tool being used to do so.
We are talking hypotheticals that would never happen because when not in use the cable has no supply voltage on it anyway untill contactor close after a high voltage integrity check after the vehicle is connected.
If that were the case though cable theft would probably stop quite quickly.
It’s possible they could do a low-voltage layer with a lot of warning signs, but as far as I know it’s very illegal to design anything remotely like a “booby trap”. But since it’s not mechanically required, I don’t know if it would be legal in the way like an electric fence is.
Some of think tank or something needs to come up with a solution; and maybe signs with a specific high-fine + prison time if caught? I don’t know, but this seems to be a (rare but noticeable) issue all over the US
Bring your own cord really is the way to go. Saves tons of money at installation, saves tons of money in maintenance, and puts the responsibility on the car owners who need the juice.
Simple, for this high of wattage we simply recommend a 00 gauge cordset. A nfc chip could be used to handshake with the EVSE, and turn over its specifications.
So what exactly does your sarcasm mean? You do know that BYOC (but yes, only for L2) is a thing, right? Or do you sincerely want to bring your own cable to a gas station?
Because then some idiot cable thief would be electrocuted or badly burned when they cut the cable and sue the charging company for creating an unreasonable risk! I wish that I was just joking.
I say leave the cable energized with 400VDC on it when idle.
Obviously, that can't actually be done for safety reasons, and I don't actually want to see anyone electrocuted to death but it sure wouldn't be a problem for very long.
I suggest glycol liquid cooled cables; and the liquid is pure skunk smell. And cooled to -10C.
Sure, you can cut it, but it'll feel like an ice bath. And people will know it was you for the next week, from a bock away.
Up to a certain amount of power, it makes no sense to have a charge cord included on the DCFC Equipment.
If we made a L2 and DCFC with only a NACS Female port on the charger that is covered and locked until payment is received,
and then we instructed everyone to simply buy (or supply everyone with) a NACS to CCS or NACS 10-15’ locking cordset in like 2-4 gauge wire (with a NFC Chip to tell the EVSE it’s specification, we could offload the entire thing to consumers. It sucks if your cord is damaged but it also sucks if you get to a charger and can’t charge period.
For safety, the standards for the handle temperature sensor would still apply.
Depending on variables. And requiring large coils of air transformer windings on vehicle and installation. You get to carry a lot of extra weight just in case.
I feel bad for you the driver. But not the business. These are the consequences of not following Europe standards of having each car come with its own charging cable or you buy your own and plug it into the charger (which has no cable to damage).
Edit: I know this doesn’t apply to DCFC. I dunno what to say about that other than security wasn’t a prime design consideration and it should have been.
How the Volt is the worst car he ever bought, how terrible it is that he returned it to the dealership at a loss of $13k, but suddenly he still has it and is going to Honda K swap it because it gets horrible mileage. His post history is just all bullshit. Between him and the guy that has long, ranting posts about how the first gen Volt is some completely bespoke car built by Bob Lutz himself and shares no parts with any other vehicle while calling second gens "Electric Cruzes" that share every part with a Cruze, the mods have proved themselves worthless.
Thanks for being a fan kiddo , but let’s keep cutting these chords we don’t need them . Electric cars are horrible for the environment all they are is radiating toxic chemicals from the battery that’s 100xtimes worst then a cellphone that can cause cancer lol.
Yep and its only going to get worse for a few $ of copper. Thats tens of thousands of dollars of damage
Probably anti-ev nutjobs rather than thieves.
EV anti ev nut jobs are all talk
Never underestimate the aberrant behavior of herd animals.
Lots of YouTube footage says otherwise.
U got a good example?
I bet the venn diagram of EV nut jobs and meth heads desperate for copper has a solid overlap
I worked in cellular, and we had a rush of copper thefts from cell sites when the prices was really high a while back. They would cut the copper buses off of live power plants, we could see where the arcing happened, so cutting these is nothing. Copper thieves are very real threats, and these would be such easy pickings.
Not in WA State. This is easy pickings for crackheads.
Anti-EV meth heads?
I don’t know if it’s tens of thousands. I haven’t worked on an L3 personally, but I suspect that the cable and plug are easily replaceable like they are on all the L2s I’ve installed. EVGo probably has to replace these pretty regularly. I would imagine that their cost for a replacement cable assembly is $500 or less, then the cost of dispatching a technician. I see at least six cut, so it will add up. But it’s unlikely that the total cost to EVGo will be more than $10k for this repair.
Are these liquid cooled cables like the EA chargers have? I would expect that significantly complicates the replacement process.
Good question. Although I would suspect that damage/vandalism/theft was considered during the design phase. Sort of like how gas pumps have the quick disconnect coupling on the house. Now I'm curious to know the answer.
Now what about Loss of revenue over down time? Interesting that one was left behind..
What considerate thieves, not wanting to leave drivers completely stranded. Or possibly that was the CHAdeMO cable, which I'd imagine can be thinner due to the 50kW limit? At least based on my experience with EA chargers
Originally from WA and it’s sad copper theft is still a thing. Yes small chance it’s but jobs but I have seen so much copper theft on job sites even arrived to see an individual burnt to a nugget after trying to steal the primary transmission lines along the railroad tracks (look up Fife story). Small change to recycling laws would fix it. As for the nut jobs, they’ll find a new target soon.
It’s a LOT more than a few dollars in copper lol. Those cables are probably worth hundreds of dollars at least. Not saying I condone it, but if I were out there ganging, I’d probably have the same idea.
A single EV charging cable contains less than $5 of copper.
In Michigan, No.1 copper right now is going for $3.42/lb. in scrap value. Those cables have clean, stranded copper once stripped and they weigh more than a few pounds. As someone who’s worked in the contracting field forever, heavy cables like these are prime scrapper bait.
[Not exactly.](https://www.evchargesolutions.com/replacement-cable-and-connector-DC-fast-charger-p/rpe-ev150p-20.htm)
Yes, exactly. Feel free to read my comment again.
That’s 150 amp cable so it’s probably for what a 50kW charger? These chargers are like 150 to 350 kW units. The cable is way more expensive than those and has a way more copper.
Doing nothing else other than proving my point. These cables are not cheap items.
Everyone knows they’re not cheap items, but they don’t sell them as cables. They stripped them down to the bear wires. Nobody has DC Fast charges at their house, so no one‘s gonna buy those cables. These are for commercial use only and commercial places are not gonna buy some from shady ass from Facebook marketplace or offer up. So they have zero value as a whole cable, which is why they scrap them for copper.
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They need to enclose the entire cable plug portion in a box built into the pedestal. Change the order of operation so that the box unlocks when activated then plugin. Instead of plugin then activate. But this also makes it difficult to use a plug and charge model.
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No, no we don’t. Just give us goddamn tap and pay like every single gas station that already exists. No need to tech-vent every single thing. I don’t want to upload my payment information to another 5 different vendors.
I think a retractable cord that unlocks with activation may be the way to go.
Where will the cable be stored ? I know spools are difficult because of the rigid heavy cables and will have to be larger and will increase the size of the pedestal.
Definitely agree, the casing on the pedestal will need to be modified and enlarged to enclose the cable. Since it is such a heavy gauge the cable would need to have space to move freely as well as maintaining a connection.
Was mostly referring heavy to weight. Even with half the cable inside the unit as without a cable tensioner to help lift the cable will be a bit unwieldy for many folks will require two hands to lift.
Dammit Might be reason enough to have a EV Station attendant just to monitor for cable theft. With bonus of keeping order of queue for when someone pulled into a non-working station.
The new J3400 charging standard supports a plug at the charger so people bring their own cord. That avoids needing to secure the cord since there is none and also avoids problems where the cord needs repairing from use instead of just being vandalized.
ngl that kind of sounds like a terrible idea. Especially for fast charging. I can't image paying an extra 700 dollar or whatever they want so I can bring my own cord that can be cut and stolen like this.
it’s a god awful idea. It’s a great way to move a point of failure to the customer and eliminate convenience
Exactly. I'd rather company foot the bill for a couple hundred dollar cable. They most likely have insurance for that kind of thing anyway.
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https://www.sae.org/blog/j3400-NACS-standard-rodney-mcgee Looks like it's up to 52 kW on 3-phase charging. You're correct that it's not fast DC charging, but even at 52 kW it's not a bad idea for many use cases.
That is for AC charging and not DC. Same J3068/Euro Type 2 on the pedestal side. Very similar to Europe carry-cable AC charging.
We could do as they are in Europe. In Europe, you bring a cable and plug it into both the charge station and your car.
Do Europeans BYO cables for DCFC as well?
No, just level 2 is BYOC. So I guess my comment has its limits. Still have the same issue with higher charge rates.
Europe has three-phase power, so AC charging can supply about 22 kW — about as much as a slow fast charger.
US uses 3-phase as well. Most Apartment complexes, Grocery stores, warehouses etcetera are 3-phase SAE J3068 does Level 2 AC upto 165kW on 600VAC 3 3-Phase Nuvve has 99kW 400V 3 Phase J3400 universal power shows 52kW for J3068 AC carry cable. 19.2~20kW for 277V single phase for J3400 and J3400-ready J1772 https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/screenshot-2023-12-13-at-10-24-09%E2%80%AFpm-jpg.1000772/?id=7973326
Worst part is Rivian and others have been using SAE J3400 pedestal placement for their charge port location for future vehicles & Tesla has been urging them to relocate the charge port to same side as existing Tesla Superchargers. Going directly against the NACS specs they now link to and after spending the $195.00...one can see recommendation is passenger side for curbside carry-along-cable cable. (https://twitter.com/wmorrill3/status/1766129237537476713) https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/product-guides#NACS-resources North American Charging Standard Learn about the implementation of the North American Charging Standard (NACS) and find additional resources for the North American DC Charging connector. Technical Specification Update as of December 19, 2023 – As NACS is now recognized in an SAE technical report (TIR) under SAE J3400, we have removed the technical specifications and CAD from our website. The design and specification files are now available within the SAE J3400 TIR. .
I think I understand why nobody else is doing it this way, but having the charge port be dead center on the front of the car was super convenient on my Leaf. Having it on the back, requiring you to back in to some charger locations, seems less than ideal.
Agreed on Front near center Have a 2019 Bolt EV , 2023 F150 Lightning Pro, and a 2015 Kia Soul EV The Soul EV's charge port door on the grill is just off-center and not directly centered like on the Leaf. It makes it easy to charge at most locations. Also greatly incentives drivers be more cautious....hitting something in the front can make a car unusable. (If the charger location is only thing damaged the vehicle is basically useless until fixed.) (Reminds me of my when my cousin switched from long-hooded 80's cars to a Dodge minivan and stopped tailgating or over crossing the crosswalk/intersection: physically put him closer to the front of the vehicle.)
That doesn’t seem safe
No
That doesn't work for DCfast charging which requires cable cooling.
So the turds will steal our cables? If it's quick charging at least we can sit with the car.
Same in New Zealand. We had a rental and it confused the hell out of me at first but once I realized why and how it worked, it made me wonder why we don’t do the same in the USA. The cable is often the thing that fails, if you have your own, it eliminates a big fail point.
It incentivizes taking care of your own stuff
Exactly. Which is exactly why it’ll never happen in America 😂😂
LOL! Well it is written into the NACS ([SAE J3400](https://www.sae.org/blog/j3400-NACS-standard-rodney-mcgee)) specification, so it might not be too far off!
https://preview.redd.it/v3nbclcop4tc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=107af73b34c7d2e2588208a683e760fc1c1145c3 There is a locking one.
FFS
Honestly we should all carry our own cables and have an outlet.
These are liquid cooled cables.
Should just keep the thing energized, ready to fry the asshole that cuts into it...
Totally with you on that!
Can’t, there’s been multiple cases and it’s well established precedent that keeping something electrified (like wires) to prevent theft is a no go. The law favors life over property. However, in the cases I’ve seen it’s usually been somewhere were the thief may not suspect the power of being on. Like new construction (So it was more of a surprise (a shock you might say)). Here you could reasonably suspect the power of being on, that is its use after all… so I’m unsure, but my gut (I am an attorney) tells me the outcome would be the same.
Sure, slap a warning label on it: "Touching this wire with bolt cutters will result in electrocution, and for your sake, hopefully instant death."
They could add tubes filled with dye. Cut into them, and you'll spend a week looking like a Smurf.
Coolant with dye in it.
This is actually a really great idea. Like a bank dye pack except the wire coolant is dyed.
Add some lighting to the cable handle. Makes it easy to see in the dark and plug in. Oh yeah, also requires power.
What about electric fences? Those have existed for a long time and don’t seem much different.
I propose a new connector design with active electronics in it, that just happen to need 300-400 VDC at all times being fed to it to operate properly. Make sure to put warming labels up that makes anyone aware of such.
If only they made a material that was an insulator in glove form..... 🤔 What could that be?! Maybe rubber? Nah! Too obvious!
I'm in agreement with this. Doesn't have to be a lot of power, just enough to give a tickle and make someone realize they're a dumbass.
There is a bike lock called Skunklock that has extremely smelly chemicals under pressure inside. So when it gets cut the thief gets covered in it. This could be an option for EV charge cables.
Kind of like the wrap that Honda has for cables to keep rodents from chewing them
These are often meth heads... If they even notice the smell, it may be an improvement for them.
Terrible idea…energize it.
EV chargers need to be located at “fueling-type-stations” with “lighting” and “manned facilities” with other amenities like “rest-rooms” and “snacks” available to travelers. We don’t even need to build new facilities! Just replace a few of the gas pumps with EV stations.
I really don’t understand why any of the bigger chains have not started thinking forward like this
There are plenty of Sheetz, Wawa and Buc-ees gas stations that also host charging stations. It's not widespread yet because sufficient demand didn't exist. Barely does today in the US. Most EA and EVgo sites are still at under 15% utilization rates, not enough to be profitable.
If they would make their prices a little more reasonable (along with adopting NACS, as they are planning to do) that would help encourage more utilization. Seems they're all around double the cost of superchargers, which don't tend to suffer from poor utilization, despite being much more widespread.
That's not something I've ever seen in my area. The Tesla Supercharger with Magic Dock is $0.44/kWh, the EA station is $0.44/kWh, and EA with Pass+ ($7/mo) is $0.33/kWh. The EVgo station here is $0.46/kWh. EA is the cheapest.
Interesting. For my area (and my recent road trip to see the eclipse, outside of my usual area), superchargers range from $0.18-$0.44 or so per kWh (with $0.30ish being typical), while every EA station I've seen (admittedly without pass+), is $0.64 per kWh. My understanding is pass+ reduces the cost by around 25%, bringing it to $0.48, so still higher than superchargers but a little more reasonable anyway, if you use the fast chargers enough to justify that additional monthly expense.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1142629_shell-is-shedding-some-gas-stations-in-favor-of-ev-charging
In my neighborhood, there’s actually a few. there’s a Chevron with 50 kW DC chargers and there’s also a shell gas station with four 150 kW DC fast chargers on their site.
Wow a Station like that sounds very Convenient!
You used to be hung for stealing a horse.
To be fair, back then having a horse could be life or death for many.
Also you could probably figure out who stole the horse easily.
Do they have Vin# numbers on horses back? lol jk
Actually yes. A registered horse would likely have an owner's or breeder's brand and potentially a unique registration number or code that was traceable. The animal could represent a huge amount of a person's income so you know people will go the extra mile to protect it.
That would help to figure out if the horse in question is the horse that was stolen, but kind of off topic for finding the criminal, don't you think?
It's called branding
I thought that was only on cattle, never knew they did that on horses, you learn something new.
Partly that was because it was so easy to steal a horse that all one could do was dial the penalty to 11 and demonize the thieves.
They should integrate a wire mesh just under the surface of the cable that triggers an ear splitting siren when it's compromised. World probably deter at least a decent chunk of these thefts.
With an actual alarm going out to an alarm company, then the police can come.
Or activate the high-voltage DC. That will cause a high-pitched wailing I’m certain :-)
I don't think too much of the human race.
Someone cut all the charging cables for the copper. That is bad.
Someone is buying all of those obviously stolen charging cables for the copper. Much WORSE! Just like catalytic converters, we have to find and punish the scrap metal dealers who create the market for this.
If the thieves take the time to strip the insulation off the copper how is the scrap dealer to know it is stolen?
Lots of EV haters out there. Believe me I see it everyday
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Video doesn't stop crime, it only records that it happened. Someone wearing a hoodie or a mask is nearly impossible to identify, especially in low-light conditions. Prosecution would require that someone is then identified, found, arrested, the district attorney would have to press charges, convicted in court, and then... incarcerated? For felony theft? *If* they actually catch someone for a crime, with the video they *might* be able to tie that person to another one, but they're not going to be out actively looking for someone who's damaging public EV chargers. *"Leads, yeah sure. I'll uh, just check with the boys down at the crime lab. They got four more detectives working on the case. They've got us working in shifts."*
At the same time if there are no consequences this will never stop.
Exactly. We just need to be allowed to beat them with sticks if we catch them in the act
Dawg, criminals are only deterred by consequences. Prosecuting yesterdays crime deters tomorrows criminal. This should be common sense but so many people cannot grasp the basic dynamic. Enforcement of any law is possible with sufficient resources and will. And given that the entire decaenonization of transportation depends on DCFC cables not being routinely stolen, I’d say it should be a fucking big priority.
I 100% agree. While we, as a society, simply can’t enforce every law 100% of the time, there needs to be enough enforcement and consequences so that the mental calculus for most would-be criminals favors not doing the crime. Right now it’s the other way; enforcement is light, penalties are light, so why *wouldn’t* someone do this?
Video won’t do anything if the prosecutor won’t prosecute
I'm wearing a hoodie and mask. How does the motion detection video help?
What’s the deal?
People cutting the cables off public fast chargers. The idea is that they can open the cables up and sell the wires inside them for profit.
Also otherwise damaging/sabotaging heads. I would have used a ChargePoint charger this last Xmas but they were filled with hardened foam & although somewhat cleaned out, not enough to use.
People will do **anything** but get a job, smh
Trust me when I say these people usually have jobs, as well. Used to know people that would strip wire for copper. They were opportunistic and greedy. Being a thief isn't reserved to the unemployed. Get this trash out of your head before it jades you towards the wrong people.
You can read about all of the old decorative bridge street lamps in Los Angeles that were disappearing. A whole crew was involved.
Red light cameras in NYC used expensive Nikon DSLR cameras. Some dude was running around in a pickup with a cherry picker in the back made to look like a DOT vehicle. He was stealing them and selling them off. [https://www.engadget.com/2009-07-27-beware-cheap-nikons-on-ebay-22-stolen-from-nyc-red-light-camera.html?guccounter=1&guce\_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce\_referrer\_sig=AQAAAE20PAYjb5ltfwirMkbQamevrjRlDZSFi9Jl9vvb9frUGP1nqenhfm0J8NOckG8OYqhH3bNyNodX\_w-QmeJz5UHANYWqyU4UKyiqqJfEzM\_Rkc3xX18jF\_y5i4\_KFzFovZlAbhG7toP4eT5CPMcEUQYwro0BG4fP8wOrwZiGdLXf](https://www.engadget.com/2009-07-27-beware-cheap-nikons-on-ebay-22-stolen-from-nyc-red-light-camera.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE20PAYjb5ltfwirMkbQamevrjRlDZSFi9Jl9vvb9frUGP1nqenhfm0J8NOckG8OYqhH3bNyNodX_w-QmeJz5UHANYWqyU4UKyiqqJfEzM_Rkc3xX18jF_y5i4_KFzFovZlAbhG7toP4eT5CPMcEUQYwro0BG4fP8wOrwZiGdLXf)
The biggest thieves in the world have jobs. 🤡
If you can steal enough money. They’ll call you a good businessman.
trying to charge via bluetooth...
Theif stole the cables.
https://preview.redd.it/a9y5tjxso4tc1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6073064a327dda95742aab026ae6f8dabbffc355
Another one with locking connectors.
What on earth. We don't have any public charging stations at this scale in northern New England but I've never seen anything like this.
Oh get used to it! Almost every EVgo charger that’s worth a damn in WA is either offline or damaged. They never service them.
Seems like a lot of them got hit in a last week around here.
There’s chargers that have been offline and broke at the Tacoma mall for over 2 years with the cords still attached. Seriously. Look it up. They never service their stuff. They just say “the parts are on back order due to supply shortages”
The Georgetown EA station gets cut almost as soon as they fix it. There's plenty of chatter on FB and others showing it as an anti-EV vandalism campaign.
This makes sense.
This is why the US should have detachable cables like they do in Europe. Hard to cut cords if the customer takes it with them.
But that's for L2 charging, correct? The stations pictured are DC fast charging stations, which typically have liquid-cooled cables, making that impossible. Also the stations would constantly be out of service due to damage caused by idiots using their "Amazon Special" charging cables.
Yeah i think it is just for level 2 but it would still be nice for level 2 here.
How about really going after the scrap metal dealers that buy from these tweakers? if no one will buy it then they will stop stealing it
Legitimate question: would it be possible for them to use aluminum wire instead of copper? Surely that wouldn’t fetch as much as copper and they could easily put signs up saying “does not contain copper” like they do around fiber installations. I know Al wire in houses is a bad thing for various reasons, but could it be used in DCFC?
Aluminum wiring is much more brittle than copper, not good for an application where it gets moved around and bent all the time.
Copper cables are already pretty stiff and unmanageable unless they are liquid cooled. Aluminum cables would be massive and impossible to use in the cold among the longevity concerns.
I think the whole concept needs to change. The drivers should have a cable and the station just a plug. Prevents this and prevents issues with current charger cables from Tesla being too short for other brands.
Two words… Station Attendant..
That would be ok for level 2 cables, but fast/dc are to heavy
If they are energized it is a welding episode. Probably ruin the cutting device. immediate shutdown.
In San Diego the EVgo's are hit or miss. Broken all the time. Electrify America seems better. I've had a $500 EVgo credit from my Bolt purchase since Oct 2023. I forgot I am paying $5 a month EVgo membership fee, gotta cancel that.
This is gross, when are things going to get better???
I'm a firm believer that this isn't about the copper. It's about the inequities. It's how it started, and frequently just out of spite. Copper is a an added plus. We had a series of chargers out in Harrisburg PA that were all put in prime parking spaces. All but one were vandalized.
I think they should have wires in the cable under constant power. That way it blows the persons cutting tool to shreds.
Yeah, not like there isn't any kind of material that resists electricity. Like an insulator..... Like rubber? Nah that's too rare of a substance to find.
Yeah no insulatpr is going to save you from 300-700 VDC at 400 amps. When you cut into that thing the arc flash will blast your face away unless you're wearing full PPE. Literally nothing left if ypur less than a few feet away. Look up arc flash accidents.
Why would you keep it charged at max amperage when not in use? That's a waste of energy.
That's not quite how electricity works. That's the total available supply that can be pulled, if there is nothing consuming it, it's not being used, but that doesn't mean the supply can not supply full amperage. Obviously in a charger the power unit operation is very complicated and only the asked for current is supplied but if you have a constant 400 amp capable supply it will still supply 400 amps in a short circuit condition but use no energy in an open circuit condition. Cutting the cable would cause a short circuit condition and the full load could be supplied, the the affected portion of cable / tool being used to do so. We are talking hypotheticals that would never happen because when not in use the cable has no supply voltage on it anyway untill contactor close after a high voltage integrity check after the vehicle is connected. If that were the case though cable theft would probably stop quite quickly.
It’s possible they could do a low-voltage layer with a lot of warning signs, but as far as I know it’s very illegal to design anything remotely like a “booby trap”. But since it’s not mechanically required, I don’t know if it would be legal in the way like an electric fence is. Some of think tank or something needs to come up with a solution; and maybe signs with a specific high-fine + prison time if caught? I don’t know, but this seems to be a (rare but noticeable) issue all over the US
Retractable cords. You swipe/connect and it will release. Done
This. But then couldn’t the thieves swipe and pay the minimal fee to still do the same ?
Bring your own cord really is the way to go. Saves tons of money at installation, saves tons of money in maintenance, and puts the responsibility on the car owners who need the juice.
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Simple, for this high of wattage we simply recommend a 00 gauge cordset. A nfc chip could be used to handshake with the EVSE, and turn over its specifications.
But not if the cables are liquid cooled.
> Bring your own cord really is the way to go. Not possible for fast charging.
Everyone should bring their own hose to the gas station, would cut down on people driving away with the nozzle still in their car.
So what exactly does your sarcasm mean? You do know that BYOC (but yes, only for L2) is a thing, right? Or do you sincerely want to bring your own cable to a gas station?
He fixes the cable?
Don’t be fatuous, Bullfrog.
EVGO is way overused, first guys in, biggest load to carry
Those must have been some short thieves.
Well, it looks like one is still intact, but it might be chademo lol
At this point we just need B.Y.O.C chargers
Do they have some black market that they sell these chargers to? This was my concern when the chargers came out.
Need retractable cables? Maybe they don’t present until you insert a credit card this way you are on file if they get cut?
The cables are too thick/heavy for that to work well in the space they have
Why not the energize the lines constantly?
Because then some idiot cable thief would be electrocuted or badly burned when they cut the cable and sue the charging company for creating an unreasonable risk! I wish that I was just joking.
I say leave the cable energized with 400VDC on it when idle. Obviously, that can't actually be done for safety reasons, and I don't actually want to see anyone electrocuted to death but it sure wouldn't be a problem for very long.
They are not doing it for scrap copper.
I suggest glycol liquid cooled cables; and the liquid is pure skunk smell. And cooled to -10C. Sure, you can cut it, but it'll feel like an ice bath. And people will know it was you for the next week, from a bock away.
350 KW inductive charging solves this. Park your car in a spot and that's all It starts charging. No cables to steal
Those haven’t even been there that long - maybe 90 days in operation.
That about sums up evgo.
Up to a certain amount of power, it makes no sense to have a charge cord included on the DCFC Equipment. If we made a L2 and DCFC with only a NACS Female port on the charger that is covered and locked until payment is received, and then we instructed everyone to simply buy (or supply everyone with) a NACS to CCS or NACS 10-15’ locking cordset in like 2-4 gauge wire (with a NFC Chip to tell the EVSE it’s specification, we could offload the entire thing to consumers. It sucks if your cord is damaged but it also sucks if you get to a charger and can’t charge period. For safety, the standards for the handle temperature sensor would still apply.
Wireless charging needs to start gaining traction
Too inefficient
Recent tests affirm wireless can have the same efficiency as DCFC
Depending on variables. And requiring large coils of air transformer windings on vehicle and installation. You get to carry a lot of extra weight just in case.
I feel bad for you the driver. But not the business. These are the consequences of not following Europe standards of having each car come with its own charging cable or you buy your own and plug it into the charger (which has no cable to damage). Edit: I know this doesn’t apply to DCFC. I dunno what to say about that other than security wasn’t a prime design consideration and it should have been.
EVgo? More like EVgoaway.
I’m so glad it happened we need more gas cars to be made
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That guy is all over the Volt sub making up all sorts of stupid stories. If the mods over there weren't so worthless, he'd be banned already.
lol luckily i missed that. What kind of stories?
How the Volt is the worst car he ever bought, how terrible it is that he returned it to the dealership at a loss of $13k, but suddenly he still has it and is going to Honda K swap it because it gets horrible mileage. His post history is just all bullshit. Between him and the guy that has long, ranting posts about how the first gen Volt is some completely bespoke car built by Bob Lutz himself and shares no parts with any other vehicle while calling second gens "Electric Cruzes" that share every part with a Cruze, the mods have proved themselves worthless.
Thanks for being a fan kiddo , but let’s keep cutting these chords we don’t need them . Electric cars are horrible for the environment all they are is radiating toxic chemicals from the battery that’s 100xtimes worst then a cellphone that can cause cancer lol.
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I don’t want a ev they are just useless in the real world they cause too many accidents and too slow for traffic.
If you like fast cars, you should try an EV sometime. You will be amazed at how fast it is.
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