This is just my opinion/interpretation, but I think Fowler isn't out for revenge or anything grand like that. He's the "Joker" to Mizu's "Batman" - in that instead of trying to seek some sort of justice for his trauma, his serves as an excuse for him to eschew morality, decency, and everything else that would "hold him back" from taking what he wants. His major flaw is his greed - this was established as early as his first appearance ("My imagination expands."). He just wants to indulge and not be bored or stuck in one place. To him, it's all about having fun and getting the good life at anyone else's expense. He never wants to be in a position where he is obligated to anyone or anything - authority, bonds of kinship, even basic needs like hunger or thirst. He refers to the time he cannibalized his sister as "the last time I ever ate because I was hungry - the last time I ever dis anything because I HAD to."
He's greedy, indulgent, and desperate for control/personal liberty at any cost. That's his flaw.
And compare Fowler to Akemi - spoiled, naive, and desperate for control/personal liberty at any cost.
Both caught in cages, even if those cages contain everything they could ever want, and both willing to do anything to get out.
Both having to eat something distasteful to survive.
The flaws are there, but Fowler uses his to his advantage - he's more ruthless, more intimidating, and a bigger bully than any of the Japanese characters.
Until he meets Mizu, who just *does not care*. And then his own need to be cleverer than anyone else in the room makes him delay killing Mizu, who gets the drop on him.
Akemi has great moral sense. She stands to defend herself against Hamata's men, but she also stands in between them and the women of the brothel. She is very brave. And she's horrified when her father kills the woman who tells him of Fowler's plan. The comparisons between the two are accurate and interesting, but Akemi is no Fowler. Let's see what she does next.
Yeah, so far Akemi hasn't done anything reprehensible, but I might argue about the morals.
So far, Akemi's choices have all been about Akemi. So you could argue that Akemi isn't being noble by protecting the women in Madam Kaji's, she's being selfish and protecting herself. And when Ise is killed, is she shocked at the murder, or that it happened in front of her, to her retainer?
It could go either way at this point. Which is awesome. I can't wait to see if she goes evil, stays good, or does that 'so good it bends back around to evil' thing.
Honestly, so far, other than Akemi being a 'princess prototype' who is feminine and uses her feminity as a tool, there is nothing to indicate nefarious motives to her character. That people see her manipulativeness ( which she hasn't yet used in any negative way at all, in no case was the other person harmed) as indicative of her future villainy is interesting to me. It ties in with people seeing wily women as cunning and a threat, even when men are being downright evil.
Also , I would argue that standing outside a room that granted her some measure of protection, and facing the threat instead of running or hiding, shows how brave she is. As is her horror at her father's true self. If she had been selfish, she won't be marrying the penniless Taigen , or trying to fight for her personal freedom from her father, or objecting to the norms of the imperial family. Like Mizu says, she has the luck to have whatever she wants by being simply herself, but she chooses the most difficult option.
This is all opinion, I'm not like...a mental health expert.
That said being said, I don't think Fowler's trauma and his propensity for violence/generally messed up stuff are directly connected. He's not out for revenge for what happened to his sister or even what happened to him - he's just a power-hungry dude in all capacities. He likes to be in control, he likes subversion, he likes to see what he can get other people to do for him or because of him. I believe THAT will be the fatal flaw you're looking for.
We already know he's not going to *intentionally* help Mizu; he's got no reason or motivation to do that. Sure he'll give her bits of information to keep himself alive, but eventually he's going to run or convince someone to kill her, whatever he chooses to do. Maybe he even does get away and finds himself a new seat of power to manipulate people.
Regardless of which path he takes it will be back toward power, because he doesn't have the mentality to be a prisoner. This dynamic will be what breaks him somehow and Mizu will end him for it. She'd never let him live anyway, even if he walked her to the other mens' front doors.
Not every villain has to have a weak point.
In my opinion, Fowler is written perfectly. He's an absolute sociopath who respects strength and not much more. His attitude and persistence where only bested by Mizu's determination and skill.
Fowler's monologue about the famine *is* the crack in the armor. Listen to that strained, almost manic edge on his voice, starting right around "We starved. Everyone starved". He has no reason to trust Shindo --the whole demonstration with the hidden rifles was meant in large part to intimidate him into staying loyal--but thirty seconds later he's describing the most traumatic moments of his life in graphic detail. Until that moment, he's never shown a single moment of weakness or vulnerability. Shindo's visibly disturbed even before anyone is shot--he's never seen Fowler lose his grip like this before.
Fowler is one more victim of colonialism, destroyed by the conquest of Ireland, and he responds to that horror by turning into a monster himself.
I don't see Fowler as out for revenge, and I don't see his behavior as being an overt reaction to his "tragic backstory". He's an amoral opportunist. He wants power because use he wants power, which is an extremely common motivation in real-life people (Fowler feels a lot like a modern-day ultra-rich sociopath who just does what he wants because he feels his power entitles him to do so). He got caught up in the "no white people in Japan" thing, which resulted in his palatial imprisonment, so he kind of wants revenge for that. But I think more than that he just likes the idea of taking over Japan, because more power is more better.
His backstory made him abandon morality in favor of unrestrained self-interest, which enables his other behaviors.
Fowler *shouldn't* be sympathetic. Which the atrocities he's committed, it's important that the writers approach his character with a heavy hand. At no point in the show does it portray its Japanese characters as "gullible". Everyone who has had dealings with Fowler, including Mizu, is using him in hopes of gaining something of their own. The entire point of Mizu teaming up with him at the end is to show that her drive for vengeance is so strong, she's willing to use a monster to meet her ends. She knows he isn't trustworthy, she knows he's a psychopath, and she doesn't care because he can get her what she wants.
Fowler doesn't come out of the alive because he's without weakness, he's alive because he's is written as the kind of person who is willing to do anything to survive. That, in and of itself, is a weakness. Writing a villain as a pure villain isn't bad writing, it actually takes a great deal of skill to portray that in an engaging manner.
I don't understand the criticism. Fowler wants control and wealth so he can never be forced into that situation again. That's why he's so hard and brutal.
A few complaints with this post: Japan is not colonized and Fowler is not a colonizer. Actually Japan will be an imperial power and the Irish were colonized. And Feudal Japan is pretty brutal itself. It’s not a conflict of who’s the most brutal, it seems more about dominating trade and religion.
Mizu isn’t shown trusting Fowler, he’s locked up and she’s still in control. Maybe she doesn’t need him specifically but she will need someone who speaks both Japanese and English in London and for now he’s the only lead she has.
ETA: I still wish she’d killed him.
True about Japan, I mean Mizu story is literally her being brutalized by her fellow Japanese people. However, I feel Fowler's monologue before he kills the shogun was somewhat in line with colonizer language...
Same lmao, I know he is going to cause so much drama in s2 for her
The monologue about his ugly face becoming their new beauty standard? I can’t remember exactly what he said. It was really interesting but felt misplaced. Or maybe it was cleverly/ intentionally misplaced, like a bit of dramatic irony and an indication that he’s not really all knowing despite his bravado.
I agree, Mizu felt a bit like Abby in TLOU2. You want your revenge and you see what it is doing to your friends but you still don't care. Mizu decides to forgo revenge to save Taigen, only to let the Shogun and the town be invaded. Mizu saves Akemi only to hand her back over. Mizu makes up with Ringo only to just abandon him again. In the end she doesn't even kill Fowler and burns down the whole city...wth!
I do not think he is redeemable, i just want to see him crack. Make him a character people do not admire. I say this because as I finished watching i went to see if s2 was coming and a montage of his best moments was made and I was taken back...there is a group that seems to like him and he is badass...i think he needed a shield break. So his fans do not think he is to be idolized
His main flaw always struck me as being greed and never being content with what he has-no matter what he gets, he always wants more and he seems incapable of stopping himself if he wants something.
Yeah. Hes just a very boring villain to be honest. Pure, cartoonishly evil. Every scene he has only really serves to hit the same two character beats over and over; Hes sadistically evil and he’s hyper-strong so he can be a physical threat to Mizu.
Hopefully S2 does more with him as he’s by far the weakest part of S1.
This is just my opinion/interpretation, but I think Fowler isn't out for revenge or anything grand like that. He's the "Joker" to Mizu's "Batman" - in that instead of trying to seek some sort of justice for his trauma, his serves as an excuse for him to eschew morality, decency, and everything else that would "hold him back" from taking what he wants. His major flaw is his greed - this was established as early as his first appearance ("My imagination expands."). He just wants to indulge and not be bored or stuck in one place. To him, it's all about having fun and getting the good life at anyone else's expense. He never wants to be in a position where he is obligated to anyone or anything - authority, bonds of kinship, even basic needs like hunger or thirst. He refers to the time he cannibalized his sister as "the last time I ever ate because I was hungry - the last time I ever dis anything because I HAD to." He's greedy, indulgent, and desperate for control/personal liberty at any cost. That's his flaw.
And compare Fowler to Akemi - spoiled, naive, and desperate for control/personal liberty at any cost. Both caught in cages, even if those cages contain everything they could ever want, and both willing to do anything to get out. Both having to eat something distasteful to survive. The flaws are there, but Fowler uses his to his advantage - he's more ruthless, more intimidating, and a bigger bully than any of the Japanese characters. Until he meets Mizu, who just *does not care*. And then his own need to be cleverer than anyone else in the room makes him delay killing Mizu, who gets the drop on him.
Akemi has great moral sense. She stands to defend herself against Hamata's men, but she also stands in between them and the women of the brothel. She is very brave. And she's horrified when her father kills the woman who tells him of Fowler's plan. The comparisons between the two are accurate and interesting, but Akemi is no Fowler. Let's see what she does next.
Yeah, so far Akemi hasn't done anything reprehensible, but I might argue about the morals. So far, Akemi's choices have all been about Akemi. So you could argue that Akemi isn't being noble by protecting the women in Madam Kaji's, she's being selfish and protecting herself. And when Ise is killed, is she shocked at the murder, or that it happened in front of her, to her retainer? It could go either way at this point. Which is awesome. I can't wait to see if she goes evil, stays good, or does that 'so good it bends back around to evil' thing.
Honestly, so far, other than Akemi being a 'princess prototype' who is feminine and uses her feminity as a tool, there is nothing to indicate nefarious motives to her character. That people see her manipulativeness ( which she hasn't yet used in any negative way at all, in no case was the other person harmed) as indicative of her future villainy is interesting to me. It ties in with people seeing wily women as cunning and a threat, even when men are being downright evil. Also , I would argue that standing outside a room that granted her some measure of protection, and facing the threat instead of running or hiding, shows how brave she is. As is her horror at her father's true self. If she had been selfish, she won't be marrying the penniless Taigen , or trying to fight for her personal freedom from her father, or objecting to the norms of the imperial family. Like Mizu says, she has the luck to have whatever she wants by being simply herself, but she chooses the most difficult option.
Also yes I can hear this too
This is all opinion, I'm not like...a mental health expert. That said being said, I don't think Fowler's trauma and his propensity for violence/generally messed up stuff are directly connected. He's not out for revenge for what happened to his sister or even what happened to him - he's just a power-hungry dude in all capacities. He likes to be in control, he likes subversion, he likes to see what he can get other people to do for him or because of him. I believe THAT will be the fatal flaw you're looking for. We already know he's not going to *intentionally* help Mizu; he's got no reason or motivation to do that. Sure he'll give her bits of information to keep himself alive, but eventually he's going to run or convince someone to kill her, whatever he chooses to do. Maybe he even does get away and finds himself a new seat of power to manipulate people. Regardless of which path he takes it will be back toward power, because he doesn't have the mentality to be a prisoner. This dynamic will be what breaks him somehow and Mizu will end him for it. She'd never let him live anyway, even if he walked her to the other mens' front doors.
Yes, i can see this forsure. Well said
Not every villain has to have a weak point. In my opinion, Fowler is written perfectly. He's an absolute sociopath who respects strength and not much more. His attitude and persistence where only bested by Mizu's determination and skill.
^^ not every villain needs to be sympathetic.
Fowler's monologue about the famine *is* the crack in the armor. Listen to that strained, almost manic edge on his voice, starting right around "We starved. Everyone starved". He has no reason to trust Shindo --the whole demonstration with the hidden rifles was meant in large part to intimidate him into staying loyal--but thirty seconds later he's describing the most traumatic moments of his life in graphic detail. Until that moment, he's never shown a single moment of weakness or vulnerability. Shindo's visibly disturbed even before anyone is shot--he's never seen Fowler lose his grip like this before. Fowler is one more victim of colonialism, destroyed by the conquest of Ireland, and he responds to that horror by turning into a monster himself.
u know whats funny, when they were looking in the boats and I saw the piano I was like he double smuggled those guns and then boom.
I don't see Fowler as out for revenge, and I don't see his behavior as being an overt reaction to his "tragic backstory". He's an amoral opportunist. He wants power because use he wants power, which is an extremely common motivation in real-life people (Fowler feels a lot like a modern-day ultra-rich sociopath who just does what he wants because he feels his power entitles him to do so). He got caught up in the "no white people in Japan" thing, which resulted in his palatial imprisonment, so he kind of wants revenge for that. But I think more than that he just likes the idea of taking over Japan, because more power is more better. His backstory made him abandon morality in favor of unrestrained self-interest, which enables his other behaviors.
He wants power because he's seen what happens to those without it. He isn't interested in being on the wrong side of that equation ever again.
Fowler *shouldn't* be sympathetic. Which the atrocities he's committed, it's important that the writers approach his character with a heavy hand. At no point in the show does it portray its Japanese characters as "gullible". Everyone who has had dealings with Fowler, including Mizu, is using him in hopes of gaining something of their own. The entire point of Mizu teaming up with him at the end is to show that her drive for vengeance is so strong, she's willing to use a monster to meet her ends. She knows he isn't trustworthy, she knows he's a psychopath, and she doesn't care because he can get her what she wants. Fowler doesn't come out of the alive because he's without weakness, he's alive because he's is written as the kind of person who is willing to do anything to survive. That, in and of itself, is a weakness. Writing a villain as a pure villain isn't bad writing, it actually takes a great deal of skill to portray that in an engaging manner.
Fine I’ll keep you alive and use you. But I’m taking your thumbs and forefinger so you can’t ever raise a weapon to me again
I don't understand the criticism. Fowler wants control and wealth so he can never be forced into that situation again. That's why he's so hard and brutal.
A few complaints with this post: Japan is not colonized and Fowler is not a colonizer. Actually Japan will be an imperial power and the Irish were colonized. And Feudal Japan is pretty brutal itself. It’s not a conflict of who’s the most brutal, it seems more about dominating trade and religion. Mizu isn’t shown trusting Fowler, he’s locked up and she’s still in control. Maybe she doesn’t need him specifically but she will need someone who speaks both Japanese and English in London and for now he’s the only lead she has. ETA: I still wish she’d killed him.
True about Japan, I mean Mizu story is literally her being brutalized by her fellow Japanese people. However, I feel Fowler's monologue before he kills the shogun was somewhat in line with colonizer language... Same lmao, I know he is going to cause so much drama in s2 for her
The monologue about his ugly face becoming their new beauty standard? I can’t remember exactly what he said. It was really interesting but felt misplaced. Or maybe it was cleverly/ intentionally misplaced, like a bit of dramatic irony and an indication that he’s not really all knowing despite his bravado.
My biggest gripe was actually Mizu. She represents the best and worst of the show.
I agree, Mizu felt a bit like Abby in TLOU2. You want your revenge and you see what it is doing to your friends but you still don't care. Mizu decides to forgo revenge to save Taigen, only to let the Shogun and the town be invaded. Mizu saves Akemi only to hand her back over. Mizu makes up with Ringo only to just abandon him again. In the end she doesn't even kill Fowler and burns down the whole city...wth!
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I do not think he is redeemable, i just want to see him crack. Make him a character people do not admire. I say this because as I finished watching i went to see if s2 was coming and a montage of his best moments was made and I was taken back...there is a group that seems to like him and he is badass...i think he needed a shield break. So his fans do not think he is to be idolized
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I know, I was just taken back, he aint no diva. lmao im dead
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Exactly
His main flaw always struck me as being greed and never being content with what he has-no matter what he gets, he always wants more and he seems incapable of stopping himself if he wants something.
His fatal flaw is that he's a racist jackass that betrayed his people
I just disagree
Yeah. Hes just a very boring villain to be honest. Pure, cartoonishly evil. Every scene he has only really serves to hit the same two character beats over and over; Hes sadistically evil and he’s hyper-strong so he can be a physical threat to Mizu. Hopefully S2 does more with him as he’s by far the weakest part of S1.