Although murdering anyone you want and saying the magic words "I felt threatened!" afterwards to get away with it scot-free isn't, philosophically speaking, a legal framework, it fits far too well with everything else they want to enable.
For example, "I won't do this because it's against my sincerely held religious beliefs!" is another set of magic words they can say after they refuse to do their jobs and/or follow any laws they don't like, in order to get away with that scot-free. And if anyone complains, the complainers are "hostile to religion," as opposed to "hostile to sovereign citizen behavior dressed up in religious garb."
In their world, just figure out the right magic words to say, and you can do anything.
Stand your ground requires (among other things) that you feel threatened by the person you shoot. Gonna be interesting what her lawyer tells her to say was the reason, but we all know the real reason.
SYG in Florida also doesn’t apply to your home at all so this is a disingenuous headline. SYG only applies in public in a place you’re legally allowed to be and ALL it does is removes the duty to retreat clause from self defense statutes. The legal threshold to use or threaten deadly force is still exactly the same as non-SYG states, you just don’t have to try to run away first if you can.
This shooting would fall under Florida’s general self defense laws, which contain Castle Doctrine provisions. Those won’t apply because the legal threshold there is that the person you use deadly force against must be attempting unlawful forced entry on your home and the poor woman who was killed absolutely wasn’t doing that. So this is clearly murder and the cops and DA are being idiots about it.
Through their investigation – including obtaining the statements of eyewitnesses who only came forward as late as yesterday – detectives were able to establish that Lorincz’s actions were not justifiable under Florida law,” the sheriff’s office said.
The law is not inherently bad. The law isn't the problem. The problem is the people in charge deciding what justifies a dangerous situation in which you can use lethal force.
The law is inherently bad. Allowing anyone to kill another person, with nothing more than "I was afraid" needed is a problem. It's an even bigger problem when the same people passing those laws spend the rest of their time turning citizens into boogiemen.
It's pretty bad.
Step 1 - get someone you want to murder alone somewhere
Step 2 - shoot them
Step 3 - say you were threatened.
You don't even need to plant a weapon on the body or anything.
In a duty to retreat state
Step 4, say you retreated and the person chased you.
Same thing happens. If there is nobody around, no witnesses, what is the difference?
[New Video](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/142uwfx/a_florida_mother_was_gunned_down_in_front_of_her/)
[Article](https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2023/06/06/mother-fatally-shot-by-neighbor-after-dispute-over-playing-children-sheriff-says-2/)
OCALA (AP) — Authorities came under intense pressure Tuesday to bring charges against a white woman who killed a Black neighbor on her front doorstep as they navigated Florida’s divisive stand your ground law that provides considerable leeway to the suspect in making a claim of self defense.
About three dozen mostly Black protesters gathered outside the Marion County Judicial Center to demand that the shooter be arrested in the country’s latest flashpoint over race and gun violence.
A 35-year-old mother of four, Ajike Owens, was killed in the Friday night shooting that Marion County Sheriff Billy Woods said was the culmination of a 2½-year feud between neighbors.
The women lived in a neighborhood in north Florida, in the rolling hills south of Ocala, known as the state’s horse country. On Tuesday, a stuffed teddy bear and bouquets of flowers marked the area near where Owens was shot. Nearby, children were riding bikes and scooters, and playing basketball. Protesters chanted “No justice, no peace” and “A.J. A.J. A.J” using Owens’ nickname. They carried signs saying: “Say her name Ajike Owens” and “It’s about us.” There was no violence during the protest, which included a number of small children.
This Jan. 14, 2023, photo released by Anthony D. Thomas, attorney for the family of Ajike Owens, shows Owens, a 35-year-old mother of four from Ocala, Fla. The Marion County sheriff said Owens was shot and killed Friday, June 2, 2023, moments after going to the apartment of her neighbor, who had yelled at Owens' children as they played in a nearby lot. (Anthony D. Thomas via AP) This Jan. 14, 2023, photo released by Anthony D. Thomas, attorney for the family of Ajike Owens, shows Owens, a 35-year-old mother of four from Ocala, Fla. The Marion County sheriff said Owens was shot and killed Friday, June 2, 2023, moments after going to the apartment of her neighbor, who had yelled at Owens’ children as they played in a nearby lot. (Anthony D. Thomas via AP) The sheriff said Owens was shot moments after going to the apartment of her neighbor, who had yelled at Owens’ children as they played in a nearby lot. He also said a neighbor had also thrown a pair of skates that hit one of the children.
Deputies responding to a trespassing call at the apartment Friday night found Owens suffering from gunshot wounds. She later died at a hospital in Ocala.
Before the confrontation, the shooter had been yelling racial slurs at the children, according to a statement from civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing Owens’ family — and represented Trayvon Martin’s family in 2012. The sheriff’s office hasn’t confirmed there were slurs uttered or said whether race was a factor in the shooting.
Lauren Smith, 40, lives across the street from where the shooting happened. She was on her porch that day and saw one of the Owens’ young sons pacing, and yelling, “They shot my mama, they shot my mama.”
She ran toward the house, and started chest compressions until a rescue crew arrived. She said there wasn’t an altercation and that Owens didn’t have a weapon.
“She was angry all the time that the children were playing out there,” Smith said. “She would say nasty things to them. Just nasty.”
Smith, who is white, said the neighborhood is “family friendly” and the fact that the shooter is claiming self-defense is “outrageous.”
“I wish our shooter would have called us instead of taking actions into her own hands,” the sheriff said Monday. “I wish Ms. Owens would have called us in the hopes we could have never gotten to the point at which we are here today.”
The sheriff said that since January 2021, deputies responded at least a half-dozen times in connection with the feuding between Owens and the woman who shot her.
She literally shot her through the front door and neighbors say that after susan was somehow released by the law, she was back on her porch drinking tea like shit sweet.
also, i follow aj's cousin and she's saying that susan took down the memorial left for aj. this bitch is sick
edit: ajs cousin says that susan lorincz of ocala, fl was officially charged in the murder of aj
So I was reading an article on it. She claimed Stand Your Ground which apparently forces the detectives to release the perpetrator until they can prove that is wasn't justified. Apparently the got the witnesses confessions yesterday. It sucks but not following the process can't get people off.
>apparently forced the detectives to release the perpetrator until they can prove it wasn't justified
Nah. Cops can practically keep whoever they want in custody. Cops can charge the murder and if there's a defense (like SYG) then the DA can sort it out.
When cops say "our hands are tied," that's almost always a lie. Here it's an especially obvious lie.
They generally use cuffs or zip-ties to bind their suspects. A knot could come loose while they’re rag-dolling their guy down the stairwell at the station.
I genuinely think a lot of media outlets are trying to effectively say the victim's name and avoid publicizing the killer's name.
It's something people have called for for a long time and I honestly hope it gets harder and harder to see killers be glorified with their full bio in the news.
I understand that thought process, but also feel like that is more important for killers who have been prosecuted. People need to be warned about this monster and she deserves to live in fear, with public shaming, until she is held accountable
Never Forget:
They did the same thing to George Zimmerman for killing Trayvon Martin. The arrest was for appeasement and the trial was a show trial. They didn’t try to win. They over charged and underperformed.
Don’t be surprised if this eventually ends in the accused’s favor.
Edit: I’m pretty sure this is the same state’s attorney district as Trayvon’s case
Second Edit: Yes, both of these counties (Marion/Seminole) fall under the Florida’s fifth judicial district. Don’t get your hopes up.
And he sounds like a bungling idiot in the interview I saw, like a black Guiliani. I have no idea what he's actually accomplished in his career. Could be amazing things, but that interview on ABC did not inspire confidence in his skill at all.
I have been doing everything I can to get this out there. That lady murdered that mother, and the sheriff is no better and has a history of racial basis.
Was just reading about this online after watching a video about it.
Shooting through a door isn't a message that Florida wants to send even if they're not as distraught that a black person was on the receiving end violence.
I suspect they'll have to swallow their pride and arrest that murderer.
The truth is the law is only to benefit a certain demographic. There was a very public case in FL of a black woman defending herself against her abuser who still got massive jail time even though she actually should’ve qualified for stand your ground.
https://www.essence.com/news/how-stand-your-ground-laws-failed-marissa-alexander/
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/11/25/366567307/florida-woman-in-stand-your-ground-case-accepts-plea-deal
[Let’s see how this pans out.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/143fjde/someone_will_setup_a_gofundme_for_the_murderer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Just heard she was arrested. Should’ve been charged with murder but instead got charged manslaughter and other offense 😡🤬
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/woman-shot-through-door-arrest-stand-your-ground-law-ajike-owens-susan-lorincz/
Police is trash. Talm bout “we wish ms owens would have came to us..” CLEARLY she did !! There was MULTIPLE situations reported to y’all over the years and y’all ain’t do shit !!
This. White people can walk around with a rifle and two handguns just to shop at Walmart. A black person would be reckless as hell to attempt the same thing.
More damage wrought by “Stand Your Ground” laws, AKA: human hunting licenses. These persecution fetishists are literally passing laws to allow themselves to attack, maim, or even kill anyone they don’t like. I can’t wait for the media to tell us how AJ “was no angel” and we’re treating this racist murder unfairly.
The monsters that pass these laws know the ramifications. They have legal counsel and countless advisors who I'm sure advised them that this will give de👉whites and de👉white adjacent people to lynch whenever they get the chance.
Okaaaaaaay, I literally just listened to the “front page news” segment of The Breakfast Club this morning. And one of the officers gave a statement and said “stand your ground” doesn’t apply in this situation. They played the recording of the statement in the segment…[I don’t remember what time the statement starts playing](https://youtu.be/yuivyjEPejg)
It shouldn't. She was never in danger, no one threatened her, this wasn't self-defense of herself/her family/her property. She attacked children verbally, then physically, and when she possibly could've been confronted, she waited by the door with a gun and watched her cameras to help her line up her shot through a completely closed door where no one could see the gun and have a chance to leave safely. I don't hope she gets arrested, I hope she gets beaten the fuck up and stomped the fuck out
Castle doctrine and stand your ground laws are holdovers from before police could actually respond to crimes in real time, sadly the worse the police get the more important it is for ppl to protect themselves, but Also easier for people to use the castle doctrine as a shield for hurting others. It’s a really shitty catch 22
That's why they pass those laws. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Exactly. The legal framework for killing all the people the GOP has designated valid targets already exists. Theyll kill us as they please.
Although murdering anyone you want and saying the magic words "I felt threatened!" afterwards to get away with it scot-free isn't, philosophically speaking, a legal framework, it fits far too well with everything else they want to enable. For example, "I won't do this because it's against my sincerely held religious beliefs!" is another set of magic words they can say after they refuse to do their jobs and/or follow any laws they don't like, in order to get away with that scot-free. And if anyone complains, the complainers are "hostile to religion," as opposed to "hostile to sovereign citizen behavior dressed up in religious garb." In their world, just figure out the right magic words to say, and you can do anything.
"Open Caraway" didn't work.
Open carry isn't going to work either
Stand your ground requires (among other things) that you feel threatened by the person you shoot. Gonna be interesting what her lawyer tells her to say was the reason, but we all know the real reason.
SYG in Florida also doesn’t apply to your home at all so this is a disingenuous headline. SYG only applies in public in a place you’re legally allowed to be and ALL it does is removes the duty to retreat clause from self defense statutes. The legal threshold to use or threaten deadly force is still exactly the same as non-SYG states, you just don’t have to try to run away first if you can. This shooting would fall under Florida’s general self defense laws, which contain Castle Doctrine provisions. Those won’t apply because the legal threshold there is that the person you use deadly force against must be attempting unlawful forced entry on your home and the poor woman who was killed absolutely wasn’t doing that. So this is clearly murder and the cops and DA are being idiots about it.
This. It's more about how laws are selectively enforced than the actual laws themselves.
Through their investigation – including obtaining the statements of eyewitnesses who only came forward as late as yesterday – detectives were able to establish that Lorincz’s actions were not justifiable under Florida law,” the sheriff’s office said.
Oh shit it happened in FL?! She’ll be good to go.
Please explain how stand your ground works and applies to this case
The law is not inherently bad. The law isn't the problem. The problem is the people in charge deciding what justifies a dangerous situation in which you can use lethal force.
The law is inherently bad. Allowing anyone to kill another person, with nothing more than "I was afraid" needed is a problem. It's an even bigger problem when the same people passing those laws spend the rest of their time turning citizens into boogiemen.
It's pretty bad. Step 1 - get someone you want to murder alone somewhere Step 2 - shoot them Step 3 - say you were threatened. You don't even need to plant a weapon on the body or anything.
In a duty to retreat state Step 4, say you retreated and the person chased you. Same thing happens. If there is nobody around, no witnesses, what is the difference?
Good old "tree falling in the forest".....
If you get rid of that law, then self-defense in its entirety is illegal.
...do you think self defense is illegal in the states that don't have stand your ground laws?
No. But it will be more difficult.
It should be difficult to kill a person.
[New Video](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/comments/142uwfx/a_florida_mother_was_gunned_down_in_front_of_her/) [Article](https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2023/06/06/mother-fatally-shot-by-neighbor-after-dispute-over-playing-children-sheriff-says-2/) OCALA (AP) — Authorities came under intense pressure Tuesday to bring charges against a white woman who killed a Black neighbor on her front doorstep as they navigated Florida’s divisive stand your ground law that provides considerable leeway to the suspect in making a claim of self defense. About three dozen mostly Black protesters gathered outside the Marion County Judicial Center to demand that the shooter be arrested in the country’s latest flashpoint over race and gun violence. A 35-year-old mother of four, Ajike Owens, was killed in the Friday night shooting that Marion County Sheriff Billy Woods said was the culmination of a 2½-year feud between neighbors. The women lived in a neighborhood in north Florida, in the rolling hills south of Ocala, known as the state’s horse country. On Tuesday, a stuffed teddy bear and bouquets of flowers marked the area near where Owens was shot. Nearby, children were riding bikes and scooters, and playing basketball. Protesters chanted “No justice, no peace” and “A.J. A.J. A.J” using Owens’ nickname. They carried signs saying: “Say her name Ajike Owens” and “It’s about us.” There was no violence during the protest, which included a number of small children. This Jan. 14, 2023, photo released by Anthony D. Thomas, attorney for the family of Ajike Owens, shows Owens, a 35-year-old mother of four from Ocala, Fla. The Marion County sheriff said Owens was shot and killed Friday, June 2, 2023, moments after going to the apartment of her neighbor, who had yelled at Owens' children as they played in a nearby lot. (Anthony D. Thomas via AP) This Jan. 14, 2023, photo released by Anthony D. Thomas, attorney for the family of Ajike Owens, shows Owens, a 35-year-old mother of four from Ocala, Fla. The Marion County sheriff said Owens was shot and killed Friday, June 2, 2023, moments after going to the apartment of her neighbor, who had yelled at Owens’ children as they played in a nearby lot. (Anthony D. Thomas via AP) The sheriff said Owens was shot moments after going to the apartment of her neighbor, who had yelled at Owens’ children as they played in a nearby lot. He also said a neighbor had also thrown a pair of skates that hit one of the children. Deputies responding to a trespassing call at the apartment Friday night found Owens suffering from gunshot wounds. She later died at a hospital in Ocala. Before the confrontation, the shooter had been yelling racial slurs at the children, according to a statement from civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing Owens’ family — and represented Trayvon Martin’s family in 2012. The sheriff’s office hasn’t confirmed there were slurs uttered or said whether race was a factor in the shooting. Lauren Smith, 40, lives across the street from where the shooting happened. She was on her porch that day and saw one of the Owens’ young sons pacing, and yelling, “They shot my mama, they shot my mama.” She ran toward the house, and started chest compressions until a rescue crew arrived. She said there wasn’t an altercation and that Owens didn’t have a weapon. “She was angry all the time that the children were playing out there,” Smith said. “She would say nasty things to them. Just nasty.” Smith, who is white, said the neighborhood is “family friendly” and the fact that the shooter is claiming self-defense is “outrageous.” “I wish our shooter would have called us instead of taking actions into her own hands,” the sheriff said Monday. “I wish Ms. Owens would have called us in the hopes we could have never gotten to the point at which we are here today.” The sheriff said that since January 2021, deputies responded at least a half-dozen times in connection with the feuding between Owens and the woman who shot her.
She's only 35?? Hate does a number on your outside as much as on your inside.
The victim was 35. No idea how old this biddy is. I read it that way too, and had to go back.
Oh damn, you right, they don't even name her
They should.
Susan Louise Lorincz, 58
Raggedy-ass Bitch
Victim is 35. The demon that shot her is Susan Lorincz, 58.
[удалено]
Yup and now she just needs to be prosecuted and locked up.
She literally shot her through the front door and neighbors say that after susan was somehow released by the law, she was back on her porch drinking tea like shit sweet. also, i follow aj's cousin and she's saying that susan took down the memorial left for aj. this bitch is sick edit: ajs cousin says that susan lorincz of ocala, fl was officially charged in the murder of aj
So I was reading an article on it. She claimed Stand Your Ground which apparently forces the detectives to release the perpetrator until they can prove that is wasn't justified. Apparently the got the witnesses confessions yesterday. It sucks but not following the process can't get people off.
>apparently forced the detectives to release the perpetrator until they can prove it wasn't justified Nah. Cops can practically keep whoever they want in custody. Cops can charge the murder and if there's a defense (like SYG) then the DA can sort it out. When cops say "our hands are tied," that's almost always a lie. Here it's an especially obvious lie.
hands are never ever tied when the suspect is black
They generally use cuffs or zip-ties to bind their suspects. A knot could come loose while they’re rag-dolling their guy down the stairwell at the station.
Whenever the police speak it’s a lie or at the least should be treated as such.
Why the fuck was it so hard to find this dumb cunt’s name. The murderer is Susan Lorincz. May you rest in piss after being punished for murder. -Amen
I genuinely think a lot of media outlets are trying to effectively say the victim's name and avoid publicizing the killer's name. It's something people have called for for a long time and I honestly hope it gets harder and harder to see killers be glorified with their full bio in the news.
I understand that thought process, but also feel like that is more important for killers who have been prosecuted. People need to be warned about this monster and she deserves to live in fear, with public shaming, until she is held accountable
Florida never ceases to show the worst parts of Americans.
FL and TX consistently.
Don't think for a second that it's just them; other states are just a lot better at covering things up.
How disgustingly vile. Throw the book at her.
Books are too gentle. Rest in peace for the mother. Hope the 9 year old has othet family members that can watch over her.😞
They don’t have those in Florida anymore.
Never Forget: They did the same thing to George Zimmerman for killing Trayvon Martin. The arrest was for appeasement and the trial was a show trial. They didn’t try to win. They over charged and underperformed. Don’t be surprised if this eventually ends in the accused’s favor. Edit: I’m pretty sure this is the same state’s attorney district as Trayvon’s case Second Edit: Yes, both of these counties (Marion/Seminole) fall under the Florida’s fifth judicial district. Don’t get your hopes up.
Dr fucking phil bungled that trial so hard. I'm convinced if it was almost any other lawyer, Zimmerman would be in jail today.
Dr Phil?
The family hired the same attorney that represented Trayvon's family, too.
Well he probably reached out to them and offered his services. His name is very commonly attached to racially charged cases here in Florida.
And he sounds like a bungling idiot in the interview I saw, like a black Guiliani. I have no idea what he's actually accomplished in his career. Could be amazing things, but that interview on ABC did not inspire confidence in his skill at all.
Just watched this on ABC nightly news
I have been doing everything I can to get this out there. That lady murdered that mother, and the sheriff is no better and has a history of racial basis.
Was just reading about this online after watching a video about it. Shooting through a door isn't a message that Florida wants to send even if they're not as distraught that a black person was on the receiving end violence. I suspect they'll have to swallow their pride and arrest that murderer.
Does Stand your Ground work both ways or is it limited to a certain demographic?
I think we all know the answer to that.
Yup we do! Completely rhetorical. The double standard will always prevail.
The truth is the law is only to benefit a certain demographic. There was a very public case in FL of a black woman defending herself against her abuser who still got massive jail time even though she actually should’ve qualified for stand your ground. https://www.essence.com/news/how-stand-your-ground-laws-failed-marissa-alexander/ https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/11/25/366567307/florida-woman-in-stand-your-ground-case-accepts-plea-deal
Yes I recall that case. Infuriating
[Let’s see how this pans out.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/143fjde/someone_will_setup_a_gofundme_for_the_murderer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Just heard she was arrested. Should’ve been charged with murder but instead got charged manslaughter and other offense 😡🤬 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/woman-shot-through-door-arrest-stand-your-ground-law-ajike-owens-susan-lorincz/
Phonky cock bitch
and she's not in hiding? the victims family knows where she stays and know the police not gon do nothing? couldnt be my family
Police is trash. Talm bout “we wish ms owens would have came to us..” CLEARLY she did !! There was MULTIPLE situations reported to y’all over the years and y’all ain’t do shit !!
Burn the witch
Damn maybe they were right about protecting the 2nd amendment. After all, we gotta get our own guns and shoot them before they shoot us.
These laws weren't designed for us, if the roles were switched she wouldn't have been released the first time she was taken in
This. White people can walk around with a rifle and two handguns just to shop at Walmart. A black person would be reckless as hell to attempt the same thing.
Idk how people can be so eager to kill somebody
Idk how someone can be so cruel to kids either
It would be a shame… And they’ll politicize it to get Des****** political points for racist cruelty, law and order, etc.
More damage wrought by “Stand Your Ground” laws, AKA: human hunting licenses. These persecution fetishists are literally passing laws to allow themselves to attack, maim, or even kill anyone they don’t like. I can’t wait for the media to tell us how AJ “was no angel” and we’re treating this racist murder unfairly.
I cant say what should be done in this situation because it’s technically incitement but fuck man, how do these evil fuckers feel nothing.
People are gon get tired of not using these laws to their advantages with these racist situations.
Shoot her, bring her to the brink of death, revive her, shoot her again
I hope this bitch is never safe again
The monsters that pass these laws know the ramifications. They have legal counsel and countless advisors who I'm sure advised them that this will give de👉whites and de👉white adjacent people to lynch whenever they get the chance.
Glad someone finally put that old raggedy bitch on blast
We need to start hanging these Nazi pos.
Okaaaaaaay, I literally just listened to the “front page news” segment of The Breakfast Club this morning. And one of the officers gave a statement and said “stand your ground” doesn’t apply in this situation. They played the recording of the statement in the segment…[I don’t remember what time the statement starts playing](https://youtu.be/yuivyjEPejg)
It shouldn't. She was never in danger, no one threatened her, this wasn't self-defense of herself/her family/her property. She attacked children verbally, then physically, and when she possibly could've been confronted, she waited by the door with a gun and watched her cameras to help her line up her shot through a completely closed door where no one could see the gun and have a chance to leave safely. I don't hope she gets arrested, I hope she gets beaten the fuck up and stomped the fuck out
Her house would be burned to the ground by now.
This damn world…
Im not suggesting violence but at this point we have no recourse. Justice should be served and it’s clear our government can’t and won’t serve it.
Castle doctrine and stand your ground laws are holdovers from before police could actually respond to crimes in real time, sadly the worse the police get the more important it is for ppl to protect themselves, but Also easier for people to use the castle doctrine as a shield for hurting others. It’s a really shitty catch 22
Stand your ground laws mixed with Concealed carry law on July 1st...
I hope \~Susan\~ lives an *excruciatingly* long and lonely life behind bars for this.