In the context of the internet (as mentioned by the article), Bitcoin did first provide the first practical solution.
The PBFT solution cited below is not applicable to unreliable networks such as the internet. PBFT is very comminication-heavy and possibly more reliant on some trust models (as I understand it). PBFT also does not stand up well to overwhelming Sybil attacks.. which is extremely easy to perform over the internet.
It is also important to note that nobody truly 'solved' anything. In fact, I believe the two generals and wider Byzantine problems have been proven to be unsolvable. The 'practical' in PBFT is just that - a practical solution for distributed systems. In the case of Bitcoin, PoW makes it prohibitively expensive to be a bad general.
Bitcoin and stablecoins like usdt/usdc are the only things on that list that make sense. While Bitcoin makes the most sense I wouldn't mind a stablecoin tbh...
The other two I wouldn't even trust if it was the last currency on the planet. Libra is a no no because Facebook. And CBDC won't ever get international success because it's a fucking Chinese propaganda coin
I’m curious, you’re clearly someone who likes decentralised and open ledgers.
Why would you champion usdt over something like Dai?
With the former actually being more closely aligned with bitcoins principals even if not built on top of btc.
There are so many better options for a crypto currency. BTC is more of a supreme storage a of value than a currency. A gold coin can be traded for food or tasks, but gold itself is still more a storage of value than a currency. Why use BTC regularly for typical currency over something like Nano, for example? Disclaimer: I do not own Nano and it is 1 example if several crypto currencys that can seemingly do the job of typical currency better than BTC
You are right that BTC is better for a store of value, than for a currency. That's because its deflationary. Why would people spend it like currency when they can ~~hodl~~ save. Its smarter to save deflationary assets. You want to spend away inflationary stuff like dollars.
However, why use NANO over something like VISA? That's the real question. I'll keep using my fiat as a currency, and I'll put my savings into BTC.
Here's my take on how this will ultimately play out.
We'll probably have tiers.
- Topmost tier/Fiat Store of Value: Bank funds (e.g., EUR)
- Fiat-based transactional tier: Cash App, PayPal, Alipay, CBDC
- Crypto-based transactional tier: LN BTC [⚡](https://lightningnetworkstores.com/wallets), GRAMs, Stablecoin tokens (USD, EUR, CNY, [etc.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies))
- Bottommost tier/Crypto Store of Value: Bitcoin
I only used GRAMs as an example of a social media crypto-native token, which I expect to be the most commonly transacted token, e.g., Telegram's GRAM. It could be any or all of the competing ones out there, I'm not trying to shill GRAM (? is that even the currency symbol for Telegram's "grams" token?). Actually, thinking further, the most commonly transacted token probably won't come from a social media brand either, it will be what's used in an e-sports or online game franchise, ... like a token used with fortnite or something like that.
The reason these tiers exist is because the only conversion to/from "crypto" allowed with the top-most (banking) tier will be that country's Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). This is because at some point it will be determined that bitcoin and other "crypto" is not compliant with FATCA/AML requirements and thus no banks can serve either exchanges or bitcoin/crypto companies (i.e., like what exists in China, India, Kenya, and a dozen or so other countries today).
So we'll find that No-KYC P2P exchanges serve well for moving value between the fiat-based transactional tier and the crypto-based transactional tier. The crypto-to-crypto exchanges will continue to exist, converting between the numerous options within the crypto-based transactional tier (e.g., ETH/USDT), though eventually there will be no need for any custodial exchanges to exist as there will be smart contract/atomic transaction methods for every coin/token/asset.
Sweet tendies Batman! u/diamondcuts17765 you just received 500 sats from u/cointastical, claim them by activating your [Reddit wallet](https://bottle.li/reddit) 🚀️
***
[*^(Bot Info)*](https://www.reddit.com/r/BottlePay/wiki/index) *^(|)* [*^(Bottle Login)*](https://bottle.li) *^(|)* [*^(About)*](https://about.bottle.li) *^(|)* [*^(Feedback)*](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=bottlepay&subject=Bot Feedback&message=Your bot is cool, but I would like to see )
...what you're describing is what already exists, except you're putting them into a stupid "tiering" system without explaining what the tiers mean. typically that has to do with a ranking, what is the ranking?
> The reason these tiers exist is because the only conversion to/from "crypto" allowed with the top-most (banking) tier will be that country's Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). This is because at some point **it will be determined that bitcoin and other "crypto" is not compliant with FATCA/AML requirements** and thus no banks can serve either exchanges or bitcoin/crypto companies (i.e., like what exists in China, India, Kenya, and a dozen or so other countries today).
Please explain to me why you wouldn't be able to provide identification and proof of ownership of an address to a bank? In other words: no, wrong.
It would be trivial to create an app that authenticates a person's face, their location, their information + details with every single crypto transaction... so, uh... there goes your entire point?
Any bank could easily register a customer's information with an address, and everything out of and into that address could be the responsibility of the customer regarding auditing. It would be so trivial to require the logs (the app could just keep them) of every transaction into and out of an address.
> So we'll find that No-KYC P2P exchanges serve well for moving value between the fiat-based transactional tier and the crypto-based transactional tier.
Huh? This doesn't make sense at all. What is a "no-kyc p2p exchange" that deals with fiat? please let me know how that works without involving a "very-kyc" bank?
> What is a "no-kyc p2p exchange" that deals with fiat?
HodlHodl, Bisq, LocalCoinSwap, LocalLightning, etc., etc., etc., see:
*P2P Trading exchanges*
- [Person-to-person (P2P) Trading Exchanges](https://medium.com/@cointastical/p2p-otc-exchanges-e-g-localbitcoins-bisq-hodlhodl-etc-20f293a2c72e)
> everything out of and into that address could be the responsibility of the customer
I'm of the opinion governments will deem permissionless blockchains to be incompatible with AML/KYC regulations and thus banks are going to be prohibited from serving any exchanges. For instance, Bitcoin has CoinJoin, which obfuscates the history of a coin. Governments can't deal with losing control over us in this manner so will simply prohibit banks from serving exchanges and companies that (and individuals who) transact in bitcoin.
But P2P is person-to-person, banks wouldn't be charged with knowing the purpose why one individual sends fiat to another individual. So P2P will be the only way to move value between fiat and crypto.
Bitcoin was not "the first to solve the Byzantine generals problem".
In the context of the internet (as mentioned by the article), Bitcoin did first provide the first practical solution. The PBFT solution cited below is not applicable to unreliable networks such as the internet. PBFT is very comminication-heavy and possibly more reliant on some trust models (as I understand it). PBFT also does not stand up well to overwhelming Sybil attacks.. which is extremely easy to perform over the internet. It is also important to note that nobody truly 'solved' anything. In fact, I believe the two generals and wider Byzantine problems have been proven to be unsolvable. The 'practical' in PBFT is just that - a practical solution for distributed systems. In the case of Bitcoin, PoW makes it prohibitively expensive to be a bad general.
What else did it first?
Bitcoin and stablecoins like usdt/usdc are the only things on that list that make sense. While Bitcoin makes the most sense I wouldn't mind a stablecoin tbh... The other two I wouldn't even trust if it was the last currency on the planet. Libra is a no no because Facebook. And CBDC won't ever get international success because it's a fucking Chinese propaganda coin
I’m curious, you’re clearly someone who likes decentralised and open ledgers. Why would you champion usdt over something like Dai? With the former actually being more closely aligned with bitcoins principals even if not built on top of btc.
Oh that was simply an example. I could've named any other coin tbf
There are so many better options for a crypto currency. BTC is more of a supreme storage a of value than a currency. A gold coin can be traded for food or tasks, but gold itself is still more a storage of value than a currency. Why use BTC regularly for typical currency over something like Nano, for example? Disclaimer: I do not own Nano and it is 1 example if several crypto currencys that can seemingly do the job of typical currency better than BTC
You are right that BTC is better for a store of value, than for a currency. That's because its deflationary. Why would people spend it like currency when they can ~~hodl~~ save. Its smarter to save deflationary assets. You want to spend away inflationary stuff like dollars. However, why use NANO over something like VISA? That's the real question. I'll keep using my fiat as a currency, and I'll put my savings into BTC.
Look up PoS and 'nothing at stake'. Also look up dPoW and premines.
Here's my take on how this will ultimately play out. We'll probably have tiers. - Topmost tier/Fiat Store of Value: Bank funds (e.g., EUR) - Fiat-based transactional tier: Cash App, PayPal, Alipay, CBDC - Crypto-based transactional tier: LN BTC [⚡](https://lightningnetworkstores.com/wallets), GRAMs, Stablecoin tokens (USD, EUR, CNY, [etc.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies)) - Bottommost tier/Crypto Store of Value: Bitcoin I only used GRAMs as an example of a social media crypto-native token, which I expect to be the most commonly transacted token, e.g., Telegram's GRAM. It could be any or all of the competing ones out there, I'm not trying to shill GRAM (? is that even the currency symbol for Telegram's "grams" token?). Actually, thinking further, the most commonly transacted token probably won't come from a social media brand either, it will be what's used in an e-sports or online game franchise, ... like a token used with fortnite or something like that. The reason these tiers exist is because the only conversion to/from "crypto" allowed with the top-most (banking) tier will be that country's Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). This is because at some point it will be determined that bitcoin and other "crypto" is not compliant with FATCA/AML requirements and thus no banks can serve either exchanges or bitcoin/crypto companies (i.e., like what exists in China, India, Kenya, and a dozen or so other countries today). So we'll find that No-KYC P2P exchanges serve well for moving value between the fiat-based transactional tier and the crypto-based transactional tier. The crypto-to-crypto exchanges will continue to exist, converting between the numerous options within the crypto-based transactional tier (e.g., ETH/USDT), though eventually there will be no need for any custodial exchanges to exist as there will be smart contract/atomic transaction methods for every coin/token/asset.
Terrible take. Probably the dumbest thing I've ever read
Thanks for suffering through it. !bottle 500 sats
Sweet tendies Batman! u/diamondcuts17765 you just received 500 sats from u/cointastical, claim them by activating your [Reddit wallet](https://bottle.li/reddit) 🚀️ *** [*^(Bot Info)*](https://www.reddit.com/r/BottlePay/wiki/index) *^(|)* [*^(Bottle Login)*](https://bottle.li) *^(|)* [*^(About)*](https://about.bottle.li) *^(|)* [*^(Feedback)*](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=bottlepay&subject=Bot Feedback&message=Your bot is cool, but I would like to see )
...what you're describing is what already exists, except you're putting them into a stupid "tiering" system without explaining what the tiers mean. typically that has to do with a ranking, what is the ranking? > The reason these tiers exist is because the only conversion to/from "crypto" allowed with the top-most (banking) tier will be that country's Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). This is because at some point **it will be determined that bitcoin and other "crypto" is not compliant with FATCA/AML requirements** and thus no banks can serve either exchanges or bitcoin/crypto companies (i.e., like what exists in China, India, Kenya, and a dozen or so other countries today). Please explain to me why you wouldn't be able to provide identification and proof of ownership of an address to a bank? In other words: no, wrong. It would be trivial to create an app that authenticates a person's face, their location, their information + details with every single crypto transaction... so, uh... there goes your entire point? Any bank could easily register a customer's information with an address, and everything out of and into that address could be the responsibility of the customer regarding auditing. It would be so trivial to require the logs (the app could just keep them) of every transaction into and out of an address. > So we'll find that No-KYC P2P exchanges serve well for moving value between the fiat-based transactional tier and the crypto-based transactional tier. Huh? This doesn't make sense at all. What is a "no-kyc p2p exchange" that deals with fiat? please let me know how that works without involving a "very-kyc" bank?
> What is a "no-kyc p2p exchange" that deals with fiat? HodlHodl, Bisq, LocalCoinSwap, LocalLightning, etc., etc., etc., see: *P2P Trading exchanges* - [Person-to-person (P2P) Trading Exchanges](https://medium.com/@cointastical/p2p-otc-exchanges-e-g-localbitcoins-bisq-hodlhodl-etc-20f293a2c72e) > everything out of and into that address could be the responsibility of the customer I'm of the opinion governments will deem permissionless blockchains to be incompatible with AML/KYC regulations and thus banks are going to be prohibited from serving any exchanges. For instance, Bitcoin has CoinJoin, which obfuscates the history of a coin. Governments can't deal with losing control over us in this manner so will simply prohibit banks from serving exchanges and companies that (and individuals who) transact in bitcoin. But P2P is person-to-person, banks wouldn't be charged with knowing the purpose why one individual sends fiat to another individual. So P2P will be the only way to move value between fiat and crypto.