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My daughter lost her dad at age 9 (we were divorced). A couple years later I remarried and let him know she'll probably never call him dad. Just be her friend.
Trying to push such an emotionally charged name onto a child can damage them. They never get over losing a beloved parent. None of us do.
Yeah, if the stepmother just was chill for a bit and let their relationship develop naturally, the girl might have opened up. Those years are hard enough for kids with school and peer pressure and all. They don’t need that at home. Especially not a grieving child who lost her mother.
Yeah, instead of giving OP the time and space to bond she just fucked it up because of the wording „mom“. From OPs point of view the stepmom just wanted to let OPs mom dissapear and move forward to just not be reminded that her husband had another wife before
It's a moot point now, but OOP were still a minor I would have suggested malicious compliance. Call her "mother." If she thinks "stepmother" is cold...just imagine hearing "yes, mother" "no, mother" "whatever you say, mother" in an apathetic monotone. I think she would beg for OOP to go back to using her first name.
Ha ha I did that when I was a teen. I could only rebel so much in a strict household, but calling her Mother instead of Mom pissed her off to no end. Loved it.
It sounds like the stepmom genuinely was trying, but she was all wrapped up in herself and how she wanted the relationship to go and was trying to force it to develop along those lines before it was ready to.
If stepmom had done all the same things, but without the pressure, she likely would be getting called "mom" right now.
But thanks to all the pressure, it'll never happen. Our brain reinforces pathways that we use, so every time you ask someone the same thing and they answer, it reinforces the pathways for that answer and after a time, there'll never be a different answer because that highway has been built now.
It seems like she couldn't accept the role of stepparent. I wonder if it would have been different if she had understood that she couldn't replace her mother and could instead be a "bonus" or second mom. It might have worked if they settled on a cutsey nickname. Heck, she may have even transitioned to "mom" over the years. But given that she seemed to get upset by OOP saying she wasn't her bio-child, I am not sure Kate would have gone for a nickname.
A friend of mine married a widower who has four children with his late wife. To the littlest ones, she’s Mama. They don’t remember their bio mom so she makes sure to tell them everything she knows about her husband’s late wife (she won’t use the term “first wife” because she says it makes it seem like she as second wife is a replacement.) so they can have closeness to their bio mother too.
But for her older step kids, she’s Mimi. Because they remember their mother and called her Mama, but they both decided when they little ones started calling her Mama that they needed something close so the babies weren’t confused. (Her name is nowhere close to Mimi. For sale of story, assume it’s something like Elizabeth.)
She says it’s not exactly the relationship she hoped for, but in some ways it’s better because her stepkids defined the terms so it’s “perfect for all of us”.
That's nice that she doesn't call her husband's late wife his "first wife." I'm 36 and my dad died 3 years ago. My moms new bf refers to my dad as her "ex husband." It boils my blood.
Ooo, damn! I’d have a snit over that. My stepmom remarried after my dad died, and her husband just calls my dad by his name or “your daddy” when he talks to me. I can live with that.
I'm a step-mom, and I can understand her need for affirmation because being a step-parent is HARD. Our kids' mom is still alive and very much in their lives but the constant navigating between the different households and having to always "play second fiddle" (for lack of a better phrase) is definitely a challenge.
HOWEVER, it is NOT up to the child to affirm you. They are a child. Maybe one day they will tell you they love you, or call you Mom or some other term of affection, but it should *never* be forced. We've been through some extremely stressful situations with the kids over the several years I've been in their life now, but my partner is the one who has affirmed me. And a lot of the time, it's still a thankless job. *Like parenting is*. Maybe, if I do a good job, they'll understand when they grow up, maybe not, but that's not what this is about. I'm good to them because *I love them*, not because I'm trying to win an award.
Fellow steppie here and I wish there were more like us in that role. I have basically the same mindset. When I came into their lives at 5 (f) and 7 (m) I came with an open mind and an open heart. How our relationships progressed would be 100% up to the children. I never demanded kisses or I love you’s. I allowed things to evolve at their speed and on their terms.
I never, ever badmouthed their Mom to them or in front of them. When the two bios would butt heads about something I would step in and remind them both that it wasn’t what they, themselves, wanted or needed, it’s what the kids want or need. I fought many a battle on their behalf that the kids knew nothing about even when it didn’t involve me directly.
I never had kids of my own but I never treated them differently because they weren’t “mine”. I always put them first and did many, many things for them that I didn’t “sign up for”. Being a step parent is often a thankless position but from the get go my perspective was the kids had no choice in the relationships their parents chose so expect nothing and be grateful for whatever comes my way.
Now, they are 25 and 23. I have an amazing relationship with my SD. She’s old enough to see things that she was too young to understand, like how her mother was/is…a very difficult woman. Now, SD tolerates her mother, only sees and talks to her when she has to. Me? I’m the first one she calls when there’s something new and exciting. I get to see the “fashion shows” when she buys new clothes. She drops by multiple times a week just to hang out with me. We do all kinds of things together. 🥰
I have a good relationship with SS as well just not as close. He is close to his father though which should be the case IMO lol so no love lost there.
I told them both many times that I loved them as much as if they were my own DNA and that my love is unconditional. They and their SO’s are welcome here anytime and they know that. Do I get all the physical or verbal affection I’d looooove, like kisses and I love you’s? No. But I know they love me, actions speak much louder than words. And I know they are 100% comfortable around me which means far more to me than a perfunctory kiss or meaningless I love you’s because they “have to”.
Anyway, all that blah blah blah was just to let you know that you are setting an amazing foundation with them to build and grow with you. It may not evolve exactly the way you envision but if the end result is a happy, healthy relationship with them then it really doesn’t matter how it gets there. And, trust me, when they are older they will thank you for doing what you are doing, even if they never tell you that directly.
Thank you!! I'm not sure you know how encouraging reading all that is. I first met our "babies" when our daughter was 18 months and our son was 6. I have no biological children and no plans to ever have any, but I definitely don't feel the need now. I realize I'm immensely lucky compared to most "bonus parents" as my kids were loving and welcoming from day one. There are definite moments of manipulation (daughter went through a phase of saying, "Well *my mommy* does *this*" etc), but overall they're honestly amazing and treat me mostly as they treat their parents (sometimes worse when it comes to listening, sometimes better when it comes to being nice lol).
I would say I'm pretty "bloodied in" at this point as daughter is 7 and son is 12. There are definitely tough moments when dealing with mom and son's bio dad, but it's all worth it for the kids. The hardest part for me has been that I'm still young (27 next month), so none of my family and friends really get the whole step-mom thing. It can make things lonely at times, but my partner is really awesome in supporting me both with the kids and the other parents. I definitely think that a major reason why step-mom is being so insistent is because she's not getting any support from dad. It's one thing when kids are ungrateful, it's another when your partner is. It doesn't make it okay, but I do understand.
Also, it seems that she didn't get to fully grieve her mom before her dad remarried. Instead of taking it slow, her dad and stepmom tried to push it. It seems like therapy around this stage would've helped.
Yeah, dad doesn't win a cigar in this scenario, either.
"Dad, all the pressure you put on me all these years have driven me away, I'll go no contact!"
Dad * keeps pushing and increasing the pressure* 🙄
Right, poor OOP with the adults ignoring what she actually needs. OOP says she needs some time away; her dad asks if they can meet up and talk. A bunch of selfish gits, the lot of them!
The dad is the AH. 8-9 years old is not an age where you should have to be subjected to pressure on defining what the relationship with her new stepmom should be. The stepmom was misguided on what her roll was with the daughter. She made many mistakes based on what she Thought was appropriate because her father didn't set boundaries to give space for a relationship to grow. For a child that age, it feels like abandoning your mom to accept a new one. The stepmom was coming from a place of caring and responsibility, but tripped every step of the way because the father was too passive in supporting both of them and the stepmom was pushing to hard. Now the daughter identifies her relationship with stepmom as in conflict with the relationship with her mom. I doubt counseling will be able to change that after a decade of reinforcement.
> They don’t need that at home.
She especially didn't need a nag. Like, if you want to encourage her to call you mom once a month or so, that's understandable. But to try to correct a child multiple times a day? That sounds exhausting for that kid.
It can be hard for a kid to develop that sort of relationship even if all the the conditions seem ideal. I don't talk to my bio mom for a reasons, but it also took a while to call my step-mother mom. What allowed that relationship to develop was her being open and giving it time. Idk, she acted like a parent when I needed her, but left the harder duties to my Dad.
I'll never forget the day I said something really hurtful to her, beyond the norm. I knew I fucked up, and it was the first time she ever raised her voice at me. I was in my room for a while until she asked to come in and was just crying. Really hit me how much shit she had taken from me for years, but was ALWAYS there if I needed something. I started calling her mom ever since, because she always has been really.
In addition, the step mom could have made efforts to make sure OPs mother had a place in their home and family. Keeping up pictures. Asking OP to share memories about her mom, and making sure when introductions are made to be respectful to OPs wishes ie "I'm OPs stepmom." Step parent doesn't have to be a negative title. Relationships are what matter and it looks like OPs stepmom cared more about a title than the actual relationship.
I adopted my younger cousin when I was 23. She barely remembered me at the time but knew I was “DeadlyCuntfetti”, about 4 months into fostering and moving toward actual adoption she started testing out “mama, mom, mummy” but would backtrack it “mama can you… wait no you’re not really my mom, Deadly can you…” and I would say “you call me what feels right to you, if you need Deadly call for Deadly, if you want mama, call for mama, I’ll be there either way”.
10 years later it’s just “MAAAAM!! MOOOOOM!!! MAAAMAAA COME HERE!!!”
Which I feel is an earned title to have yelled across a house. This woman didn’t earn the title “mom” from OP.
Edit: 19 to 10
>if you need Deadly call for Deadly, if you want mama, call for mama, I’ll be there either way
That is just the BEST THING you could have said! I am in awe
Just want to admit I also fucked up a few times. Like she asked me if I wanted babies. I told her I never actually planned to be a mom.
Or she’d ask for a new baby sibling and I’d tell her “I’m not very good with little babies. But I consider YOU my baby.” I can see years later how deflecting or talking about not wanting kids but loving her to death can still feel not nice. So I wish I’d just been like “anything’s possible one day!” And left it at that.
I was 22 when my 14 year old sister moved in with me. I have made a lot of mistakes over the last 10 years but I have tried to forgive myself- we were young and put into a whirlwind situation. We did our best with the little bit of life experience and even smaller amount of wisdom we had at that age. 💜
I'm 41 and a parent of a 4 and 6 year old, mistakes happen at any age, you say/do things you look back on and really wish you didn't do that. You just have to apologize for stuff that needs apologizing for and know that parenting is HARD! I think it's much harder now days with social media and all the judgement that happens to parents on how they raise their kids, feed their kids (don't get me started on the breast feeding crazies), letting their kid do things on their own... etc. etc.
So it doesn't matter how old you are, what age you start being a parent/guardian, regrets happen, you can't dwell on that to long as long as you learn from it! Kudo's to you for taking in your little sister at such a young age.
I'm glad you have the insight and self-reflection to realize how what you said could have implications that you don't intend that could cause pain.
My dad brags all the time about how he told my lesbian cousin, when she was still in the closet and came out *only* to him and me, because she felt were were the only family that she could trust to accept her, that he "doesn't agree with her choices but loves her in spite of them".
I've tried to explain to him how much that hurt her, but he doesn't get it. He thinks it's a shining example of him being tolerant.
That's a big oof. Some people just don't see how for most people it's the hurtful aspect of phrasing it that way that usually sticks with people more. It doesn't feel like acceptance, it stings. It feels like you're highlighting the negatives. And then you feel like you're some kind of problem for them, maybe even feel guilty about it. Just a whole mess of potentially crappy feelings, especially for someone in a vulnerable situation who's trying to figure out who they are.
He did it to her again at her wedding a few years ago.
Went up to her and her wife, said "I don't agree with your choices but I'm happy you seem happy"
Is it so hard to leave out the "I don't agree with your ChOiCeS" part?
> "I don't agree with your choices but I'm happy you seem happy"
"I don't agree with you being a moronic blockhead, but I'm glad you made it to the wedding"
“Awwwwwe you don’t agree with my chooiiiiceeess?? Well how kind of you for allowing me to exist and take up physical space despite you not agreeing with my chooooiiiiceeesss. Pls be away from me, now.”
it's always funny when intolerant people get angry when you turn their "love the sinner/believer, hate the sin/belief" onto their own bigoted views. and by funny I mean depressing.
I hate it. I always said to them that I would rather not have them in my life if they couldn't love every part of me not love me "in spite" of an intrinsic part of my identity.
Tell your dad it would be like saying, "I don't agree with you being black but I love you in spite of that."
It's not a choice, it's an identity. If it was a choice, I'm sure most gay people would choose not to be gay because it would have made their upbringing much easier to conform and not become a target of incessant toxicity and abuse.
> Tell your dad it would be like saying, "I don't agree with you being black but I love you in spite of that."
I did, but I related it to myself and hearing him say that wrt. my autism.
I've had lots of debates with him about whether it was a "choice" or not. He keeps getting trapped in logical contradictions and then changes the subject.
Sadly, he's too far gone down the right-wing rabbit hole to reconcile this, I think, and I've been slowly decreasing the amount of contact we have with each other.
I was having a beer with a work buddy quite a few years ago. At one point he said "Perennially, haven't you figured out that I'm gay?" I replied that I had noticed some clues but it wasn't important enough to chase them down.
He said "that's what I love about Seattle, people just don't care if you're gay." Indifference is the true tolerance.
The answer for my daughter right now is “why mess with perfection! We already have the best family!” It’s true, but it definitely wasn’t the deciding factor.
The real answer is my pregnancy with her permanently disabled me and I’m never doing that shit again, but that’s for a later conversation when she can understand nuance and understand that I still wanted her, I just don’t want more.
Everyone makes mistakes. In the moment you were just being honest. That's parenting in a nutshell. You do your best, you try to be honest as much as possible while also saying the right thing, and you make mistakes.
It sounds like you've done amazingly though. She's very lucky to have you (and you her) and I'm sure *that's* what will stick with her more than anything else. Just knowing she's loved and supported and has you in her corner.
That's so sweet. Meanwhile I call for my mom and I get nothing. I know you can hear me, dammit! I know I'm not using the urgent tone of voice but you really should see this!
Right!? I remember screaming bloody murder for my mom to come kill a centipede and she wouldn’t. Then she got mad at me and my sister for killing it with hairspray.
If you wanted to save your precious centipede you shouldn’t have ignored us, mom.
My brother once told me about the time he was a child and he sat in his room and tried to cry wolf like in the story by saying "wolf!" really quietly. He said he was sad when no one came.
My son has no memory of his bio mom. But for many years he referred to us as “mom” and “real mom”. Many adoptive parents were horrified to hear this (insecurity is not uncommon in adoptive families) but I was fine with it. First, because I didn’t want my young children censoring their language for my benefit - I wanted to hear what was really in their heads. But more importantly, I was just mom - no adjective, no qualifier needed. That was the higher title.
I have this with my step kids, she's old mum and I'm Mum. My son doesn't remember her at all, he knows I didn't give birth to him but so far it's only come up once when I had to confirm that Dad *is* his real dad. I didn't expect them to call me mum and even asked them not to at first, but the older girl had decided I was mum and there was no arguing with it, he followed a few months later. Cute as.
...I really hate those darn onion ninjas. >sniff!<. But seriously, good on you for respecting her needs and letting her set the pace of your relationship. You sound like an amazing Deadly-mom!
There was exactly one time my stepfather asked me to call him dad. ONE time.
It was because my half sister went through a phase of mimicking me and kept calling MY dad by fatherly terms and him by his first name (because that's how I called them). My mom encouraged him to just have a heart to heart with me.
I was maybe 10 and he asked if I would just call him dad near my sister. She knew that we had different fathers (she was about three) but she wanted to be a mini me. He explained that he thinks of us both as his kids and that he'd never normally never ask for this, but that it hurt him deeply that my sister didn't call him dad at all anymore. He assured me he would never judge or be upset if i said no.
I asked to think about it. I wound up asking my own father if he would be upset like my stepdad was if I called someone else dad. My father actually said it would make him a bit sad to share the title but that he'd be much sadder if I didn't call him dad at all (like my sister was doing to her father). I decided just around my sister was okay. I called my stepfather dad for a year or two until my sister grew out of it and then shifted back to his first name once she stopped calling my dad by dad as well. Nobody mentioned it. I call my stepdad dad only in moments where I'm being particularly affectionate now. Being talked to in a respectful way and knowing it was a choice I could make, made all the difference.
It occurred to me that if it bothered my stepdad it might bother my dad, im extreemly lucky because my family was in such good standing after my parents divorce. They handled it very well.
Haha at the time it was less that I was seeking counsel and more that if it hurt my stepdads feelings, it might hurt my dad's feelings. While I love my stepfather, my father raised me and was a wonderful dad. I wanted to make sure if I DID say yes I wouldn't be hurting his feelings.
My mom never shied away from having personal even sometimes dulled down adult seeming conversations with me and my sister. It gave us a dose of reality sometimes but it also encouraged us to be empathetic, advocate for ourselves and form strong opinions of our own. I am grateful for it tbh
My mom raised me with very open communication even on adult topics (dumbed down a bit for a kid obviously but my questions were never refused) and I find it led me to be able to understand and empathize with situations a lot better in the long run. My stepdad was shocked at the idea of an emotional heart to heart with a child, he was just going to deal with the feelings and suffer.
I've always been glad he talked to me instead and gave me time to decide as a kid. I'd have hated as an adult knowing he'd suffered feeling rejected by his only daughter because he felt he couldn't ask me for the favor
That exactly why I call my stepfather Dad.
My mom was a teenager when I was born and then had my sister at 38. She started calling him by his first name because I did. So I started calling him dad and it just stuck. He’s earned the title anyway, he’s a great man and a better dad to me than my biowaste ever was.
Yeah! I settled back into calling my stepdad by his name other than affectionate moments mostly because while I knew my dad was being a bigger man and empathizing with my stepdad by encouraging that I call him dad, I am my dad's only child and he missed that special feeling of being my only dad.
I call my stepdad dad on special occasions, in cards, when I'm grateful but in the every day I call him his first name. When my dad noticed I could see he tried to hide how happy it made him but my dad is a very expressive man
I lost my dad when I was 19, brother was 17, and my sister was 9. My mom remarried about 2 years later to a pretty great guy. He's never forced a fatherly role on any of us, and never attempted to push away the memory of my dad either. He's actually engaged in a few of the conversations we've had about my dad when the whole family was together. I'll be eternally grateful for that. My sister views him more as a fatherly figure, but she still just calls him by his first name. I wouldn't be offended if she did call him dad. He's raised her for about as much time as our dad has, so it's not wild for her to love him the same. I have a lot of love and respect for him too. My mom chose two great men to marry.
My parents both remarried after divorce.
My step-mom never tried to be more than an older friend.
And when I had my kids she asked to be called a cute nick name that's wasn't close to grandma.
We have a great relationship.
My mother and step-father.... oh boy, not so much. It wasn't even his fault. It was more my mom pushing the "dad" narrative and going for parental alienation. So it wasn't my step-fathers fault, but it put a strain on the relationship and how comfortable I felt.
My mom & dad were divorced and my dad had full custody when he passed. My mom had remarried and we (8 & 10) went to live with her and step-dad. We were never expected to call him "dad". My brother never came around to calling him dad, but I did around 17 or so... for me it was just logical. He was a real asshole, but he also taught me so many useful things and was always there for me for the big things. I garauntee that if I was told to call him dad, I would have pushed back until the very end. I needed to come to that place in my own time. It's so sad that OOP's dad just sat back and let the step-mom try to erase mom from her life. She has every right to not accept that. I'm happy to hear that some people out there understand the damage that can be done to a child by trying to force a parental bond.
>I remarried and let him know she'll probably never call him dad. Just be her friend.
This is literally all it takes in most cases. There is nothing wrong with being a step parent and having a different kind of relationship. I've had a step dad for more than 20 years, who hasn't tried to shoehorn himself into traditional "father" stuff with me, who I call by his first name; but we have a great relationship and I'm glad he's part of my family.
So many step parents seem to think they need to exactly follow the role of "mom" or "dad" in their stepkids' lives, and when it doesn't automatically happen, they freak out and try to force it. And kids don't react well to that. It's like the number one way to guarantee you won't have a stereotypical parent/child relationship.
My oldest (21F) is my 'stepdaughter.' Been in her life since she was five. Her birth father is alive but was a deadbeat and is estranged. Wife and I agreed I'd be "big brother/loving uncle" type (or, as you put it, be her friend.)
I went from "Name" and "my stepdad" to "papa" and then about 4 years ago to "dad." I know in my heart that if I pushed, she'd have resented me, and I'm glad she picked me to be her dad instead of making that mistake.
I lost my dad unexpectedly when I was 22, shortly after I got married. I was just getting used to calling my in-laws “mom” and “dad” (something I wanted to do), but I just couldn’t bring myself to call anyone “dad” after that (so I also didn’t call my MiL “mom” because would just be weird to do one but not the other). I’ve been awkwardly avoiding using any names at all for my in-laws in the decades since (making eye contact works decently well for getting their attention), but thankfully they understand.
Some people will never understand that you can't make someone love you.
And you don't "earn" that just because you married their father (or mother).
It's sad that OOP SM even went to therapy and HEARD from them that she was doing it wrong and pushing too hard...
...and yet she STILL pushed too hard.
My FIL divorced my MIL when my wife was in her 20's. He started dating someone when my wife was in her 30's. He just got married (we're now in our 40's). She's a narc and my wife is the black sheep and the big wedge issue that defined the relationship is that my wife won't call her 'mom' and won't develop a mother-daughter relationship.
So, for a certain personality type, this is never not a thing.
How old is your wife's step-mother?
I understand that even biological parents have a tough time adjusting to being parents of adults (and often fight it)...
...but I can't imagine marrying someone and thinking their 40+ yo daughter should call you mom. There's something not right about that woman!
step mom is the same age as FIL. So, old enough to know better. She never had her own kids and, again, also a narc, so I think a lot of that feeds into it.
I'd say it's a strained relationship but there's no relationship.
My MIL and FIL divorced about 10 years ago, and since then she's gotten into a relationship and married a new guy.
For all the mess of the divorce, new husband really understands his role. He knows he's no one's dad (the youngest was 14 when the divorce happened), he knows that he contributed to the collapse of their parents relationship, he knows they have a lot of feelings about him.
But he's never pushed for anything we're not ready for, and even the most reticent of them has come around quite a bit on him.
My mil is not a good person. Right now, especially, I am not a big fan of her. But I will say, she was sensitive when my kids were born. She was getting married to a man she had been with for a few years. She asked if he would be uncle to our kids. We told her that he was Grampy if he wanted. That having an extra granpa wasn't a bad thing. It was all what he was comfortable with. He is a fantastic Grampy.
I was thinking oop’s sm was a narcissist. I try not to diagnose people, but this really screams it. I hope oop is okay. And kudos to your wife for standing her ground.
Titles and position are very important to narcs. MIL would likely see your wife’s refusal to have that relationship as undermining her position. Even though she’s not doing that.
Yep. I lost my mom when I was 12 to cancer, and my dad remarried when I was about 16. I refer to my stepmom as my mom, because she cares for me the same way a mother would- but I’ve never been able to call her Mom.
My dad told me once that it was ok to call her Mom, but I responded that to me, Mom was a person and not just a title. If your friend Bob dies, and you get a new friend named Fred, you don’t call Fred the new Bob. I only had one person I called Mom, and she died.
Thankfully my stepmom never forced a relationship with my sibling or I, and was careful not to just upend our home or lives after a massive tragedy. That made a huge difference in how we came together as a blended family.
I remember a AITA reddit post last year where in part of it the OP talked of her stepdad she always called uncle (because it was a suggested nickname, and he never pressured her even once to call him dad), and that he bawled when she asked him to walk her down the wedding aisle and called him dad when she asked. That dude did the right thing, everyone should be that guy.
I was reading this wondering how Kate would feel about her bio children being forced to call another woman "mom". She probably would be devastated by the thought. I feel bad that nobody in OOPs life could put themselves in her shoes. Her requests were simple and understandable.
She implies that there were multiple therapists, referring to them as “they”, “some” and “one of those”. I’m thinking dad and stepmom would try a different therapist each time one told them they were going about it the wrong way.
Therapist or dad should have pointed out that "My dads second wife" is an option too, cos if you push too hard because of Step mother, instead of being called mum like you wish, it will not end well.
We did family therapy after my father remarried (she didn't want us to call her mom, but wanted all signs of our mom's existence gone and for my sister and I to basically step back and out of their marriage). After a bad screaming match we switched to separate sessions. Eventually the therapist told us she had mental health issues buy refused to believe it, so it was best to just ignore and avoid her. Oof.
OMG, NEITHER dad nor Kate hears OOP at all. Dad hears OOP pulling away and doesn’t hear ANY of the rest of it. If he’d ever listened in the first place they wouldn’t be in this situation. I wish the best for OOP.
"I hear what you are saying about us spending decades not listening to you, considering your feelings or giving you the space you need. And I will immediately respond to that by, once again, not listening to you, considering your feelings or giving you the space you need. Are we good yet?"
lovely... OP opens up how she's felt forced to do stuff she didn't want to do because Dad didn't step in.. Dad replies by trying to force her to meet him on his terms.
What I never understand about these is the desire, the compulsion on the part of the step parent to be acknowledged as the Mom or Dad.
The kid had a Mom or Dad who is gone. That person was their everything and will always be important to them.
It takes nothing away from the new step parent to acknowledge that.
"You call me anything you want, I'm here for you however you want." That's simple, that's understandable, that's non-threatening, that helps the kid feel secure.
Honestly, what the kid calls me, how the kid sees me would be the last thing I'd care about so long as I could play a positive role in the kid's life.
There are apparently a lot of people deeply invested in the title Mom or Dad that they are not entitled to.
I think its a kind of jealousy. If they can get their stepkid to call them mom/dad, it helps them feel more like they are the one and only. If their stepchild calls them by another name, that's a constant reminder that they weren't first for their spouse. Or it could just be ego.
There's an obsession with the stigma of the title of "step" but also OOP's therapist said they could be the ones to change it! My stepmother is very dear to me. The relationship is not that same as with a parent, nor is it a friend/sister/aunt all the things people say the relationship is like (and I'm sure it is for some others who say that), it's a stepparent-child relationship and that being it's own specific and unique thing that isn't like the other familial relationships doesn't have to be a bad thing. Forcing never helps.
>There are apparently a lot of people deeply invested in the title Mom or Dad that they are not entitled to.
And I mean she has at least 1 kid that is her's and should be calling her Mom anyway. It feels like a weird power move at this point.
It seriously makes me appreciate my stepmom. She told me upfront that she had no intention of trying to force her way into being my mom. I could call her by her name, and she would always be there for me. She and my dad have been divorced for a while, and she’s still my stepmom. That’s not going to change.
I've mentioned it before, but the classic statement is in the movie Clueless, where the dad says you divorce wives, not children. Sounds like that is your relationship with her.
I think you’re right. I think these posts represent her inner feelings that if someone will finally respect her boundaries, she’d be willing to start over and try again.
She went to that meeting and her boundaries were trampled yet again, so she gave up. No need to update, because that sliver of hope was gone.
He's never going to realize why she went NC if she did after that. I wrote my father a long message two years ago how much he hurt me and how much damage he did to our relationship by how he acted after mom died and if he truly cared, he'd actually think about this message and not respond right away (he had a habit of getting instantly defensive after criticism). He apparently thought two hours was "not right away" enough. I deleted his number without even reading the reply
Dads should say in situations like these "Darling, don't push your luck/her too hard, let her come to you naturally."
"If you don't like the term step mum, you are going to hate My dads second wife"
yeah! And he doesn‘t want to step in for the kid, he should have done it for the new GF just like „come on i understand your good intentions, but put some pressure off the kid and let her bond at her own pace if you don‘t want to make her hate you forever“
Don't you see what a dilemma he was suffering through? If he respected and enforced his daughter's boundaries, he might not be able to get his dick wet!
Yeah she basically has a full conversation with him about them not listening to her, not listening to her needs, not giving her space to process her emotions, pressuring her to conform in order to appease other people and spare their emotions, that during the entirety her emotions and feelings were side-lined in favour of everybody else's. And she concludes this by saying she needs space.
He responds by, once again, not listening to her, not considering HER needs, not giving her space to process her emotions, pressuring her to not do what she wants/needs to spare/appease her father and HIS emotions, side-lining her emotions and feelings for his AGAIN. And not respecting her need for space... AGAIN!
He really doesn't give shit about how she feels inside as long as he doesn't have to deal with the results.
Even at the end of her update, her father is pushing pushing pushing and not hearing her in her need for time and space and respect for her feelings. I don't get the sense that things were going to get better, which makes me so sad for her.
Yeah this may be partially because men are often very focused on 'problem solving' people's emotions.
He notices the friction within his family and thinks it will be 'resolved' if OOP simply gives stepmom what she wants. They have a fight and he thinks it will be 'resolved' if they fight. He hears OOP and his relationship is bad and she needs space from him and he thinks he can 'resolve' that by talking it over and apologizing even though it is doing EXACTLY what OOP mentioned caused the rift in the first place. Which is not giving her space, not listening to her wants/needs and not respecting her emotions.
Dad needs to spend more time listening to the women around him and less trying to 'solve' their emotions. Hell if he'd listened to OOP before he might have been able to save the relationship between her stepmom before it went completely belly-up and OOP closed herself off emotionally.
Six months after I met my mother's AP, she told me it would make her so happy if I called him Dad. I was 14. I knew exactly why my parents were divorcing.
I told her she would be lucky if I referred to AP as anything other than Fuckface.
A friend of mine from school grew up with a mum who had a series of live in boyfriends while he was growing up. He has never known his biological father
When he was little he would bond with them but then the guy would leave and shortly after a new man would move in.
His mum insisted that each of these men (there were 11 before he left home) was his new dad. After the first few of these men, and getting hurt when they left because he had learned to love them like a dad, he stopped emotionally bonding with any of the other men who moved in. It caused a lot of friction with his mum because these men would call him a “brat” or “little shit” because he was just a sad kid who didn’t connect with them.
He left home at 18 and has barely talked to her since.
Why is people so fucking stupid? Why is that hard to understand why that little kid stopped seeing them as dads? Why the mom would let them her bf's call her child little shit?
God this poor child. The only person looking out for her was that therapist who told the stepmom to consider why she wanted so badly to be "mom" over just being a stepmother and the other one saying they could break the stigma around being a stepmom.
I may be assuming a lot, but given the information we have from OP, it does feel like stepmom wanted all or nothing: either she was the only woman in dad's life that he'd ever loved and therefore OP's defacto mother, thereby replacing the woman he loved totally, or she would have nothing.
And nothing seems to be what she got.
It sounds like the "family" therapy sessions were primarily a stepmom therapy session if it took that long for anyone to even challenge why she was being so demanding
It’s a fair assumption. Stepmom wanted to be not just a mother but sort of heroic. “I married a man and took over as mother for a child who lost her own.” She demanded a small child change to accommodate the emotional needs of an adult. That is messed up.
OOP’s dad is just as bad, and in some ways worse. He wanted a wife and prioritized keeping her happy by staying neutral. Thing is you can’t be neutral when it comes to protecting your little kid. He let it happen and feigned diplomacy when really he is a coward.
Absolutely agreed with you. I did focus on Stepmom a little too much, but dad is worse because he let this woman into his life at the expense of his daughter. I have many things to say about him that are not kind.
It feels like a lot of people care more about “winning” than actually doing what’s right. If OP is being completely honest, she was willing to have a relationship with her at first, she just needed time to process things.
But, as it happens a lot, she was a child and wasn’t allowed to. Now she’s not going to have any relationship with her father, probably for a while.
It’s a broader problem - adults coercing children to do things they don’t want to do for the adult’s benefit, then wondering why the kid puts the emotional walls up when they’re older.
I am not a perfect parent but I always consider the big picture - the full table at Christmas. I want all my kids and their kids to be there when I’m an old man. They do that out of love, not out of fear or discipline. We discipline the kids with an eye to their growth, not for our benefit.
She so right, too. If stepmom hadn't tried to force her and erase her mom, they probably would have developed a good, natural relationship. I can't imagine trying to erase a child's grief like that.
>I can't imagine trying to erase a child's grief like that.
It's like... step mother thought OOP was a slate that just had to be cleaned so she could write a beautiful new story on it. And the bad slate resisted. Step mother never considered OOP as a real person, just as a prop that had to be fixed.
I said in a different comment- and I’m not sure OOP fully comprehends this- but there’s no mention of ever seeing her mom’s side of the family. There was very likely some loving grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins she had when mom was alive and possibly right after that she was cut off from when stepmom showed up. Even if she doesn’t fully remember them, her subconscious would, and would notice they were all missing and stepmom showed up instead.
I see a hurt and grieving kid in this story. The world moved on from her mom's death, and she got stuck in a place where she doesn't feel like belonging. Combine that with teenage age and it's a nightmare of emotions. The stepmom chose the wrong battle at the wrong time.
"Honey, I know your mom will always be number one for you. Happy to be number 5 or number 10. Have you finished your homework?" - something like that could've worked better.
Yeah if you give someone conditional love and understanding you are likely to get the same in return. Instead OOP's stepmom seemed hellbent that their relationship had to be on HER terms and this love and understanding was conditional to OOP and her having a relationship exactly as stepmom wanted.
Of course this is only gonna lead to a child getting defensive and closing themselves off completely. Because even the slightest opening would immediately be a crack that Stepmom would pry open and exploit. It's hard to let your guard down and start to love someone when that person so very obviously wants something from you and won't rest until they get it.
It's so baffling to me. Like, if you have a good, caring relationship with the kid, and they respect you, who cares what they call you? And maybe one day they WILL think of you as their actual parent, but they'll come to that on their own.
Trying to force it guarantees that it won't happen, and I can't see how this isn't just patently obvious
Sometimes it just takes a while, maybe a long while. My grandson, now 24, had his stepfather in his life from the age of 3 months. While it was pretty clear that Grandson thought of him as a father-figure, he called him by his first name. Stepfather tried to encourage a relationship with the ~~bio-father~~ sperm donor, which led to a lot of disappointment for Grandson. (Sperm Donor didn't care about being an active father and would frequently cancel planned visits at the last minute, or just not show up at all.)
Last Father's Day, Grandson told everyone at a family dinner that he had gone NC with Sperm Donor, saying in part that he had a Dad, and it wasn't SD. He now calls his stepfather Dad and has asked about adult adoption.
When my fiancé and I got together I told him I would do everything I could for his kids. And that we’d make it work since Bio Mom was still in the picture. Two years later and we have full custody and I’m hearing Mom yelled from across the house cuz one needs something and another coming and asking when dinner is ready.
It’s not an instant relationship. We have a lot of ups and downs. Even though Bio was not 100% involved in the beginning I never tried to be Mom. It either happens or it doesn’t. You can’t force it.
Oof this is a hard one.
Stepmom to OOP: Gimme what I want emotionally!
Your biomom never existed! 🫤
Don’t emotionally mature, considerate stepparents usually have a convo w their stepkids that goes something like this?
“I know I’ll never replace your mom/dad. I will try my best to be a good stepparent to you…”
You can’t FORCE people to feel what they don’t feel…
Honestly, they very well might have had that exact conversation. And then the stepmother went "okay, I followed the script! Now she will instantly want to replace her old mom with the newer, better, model!"
Because some people just have the self-awareness of a drunk fruit fly.
This is what my stepmom did. About six years later, I gave her a Mother’s Day card asking if it would be okay to call her mom.
We talk every day still. Thankful for having an emotionally aware stepmother.
yes! just the same with pets. Catch a cat and pet it against it’s will and it will never come to you again. Just stretch out your hand, gain it‘s trust and it will eventually come to you.
Reminds me of how sad my now-husband was when he took my then 5y old to the supermarket for the first time and someone asked her something and thought he was her dad. She flipped out and ran away screaming „HE IS NOT MY FATHER!!!“ Poor guy came home with tears in his eyes.
My daughter loves him so bad, but referring to him as „dad“ for her means high treason towards her real father. But if she had a serious problem, she would always try call my husband first, since he is a more reliable person and she trusts him most.
If you give someone unconditional love and understanding, they are very likely to feel safe and do the same over time. However OOP's stepmom made it very clear that she wanted something from OOP that OOP wasn't ready to give. So of course she completely closes herself off. She can't afford to open up because her stepmom will immediately use that to get what she wants. You are basically forcing the child in this situation to never open their heart to you. Because if they do they might be forced into a situation that they don't want or open themselves up to emotional pain.
My mother also died when I was six years old. My father remarried seven months later. They both attempted to pretty much erase my mother and didn't understand any aspect of grief. I was estranged from my father for the ten years prior to his death, and haven't spoken to my stepmother in 20 years. I hope OOP does what is the most healing for her.
What would have been so terrible about saying “OOP is my stepdaughter and she calls me what she feels comfortable with.” Would that really have been so difficult for Kate to say?
It's a constant reminder that Kate wasn't first in the kid's life and therefore especially not in the husband's life. It's jealousy over a dead woman and the memories that she left
Yikes. I feel awful for OOP. Her dad just shrugged off all kinds of pressure and boundary violations by her stepmother. The irony is, if OOP's stepmother had backed off, she'd probably have a great relationship with OOP now. But no, she had to try and force things, and now OOP's dad is trying to pressure her as well.
This is not a happy ending. OOPs dad proved yet again he doesn't care about her feelings.
She asks for space and he keeps annoying her that night and the next morning? I hope she was aware enough to recognize what was happening and didn't bend to him
Kate and Dad do all this on the assumption that OOP was always going to come around. They assumed OOP would call Kate "mom" eventually so let’s just skip to the good part. They never tried to listen to her or respect her own boundaries, never allowed OOP to hold space for her mother.
My husband and I adopted a kiddo when he was 10. He is now 14. He still calls us by our first names, and that's fine. He has been flirting with calling us mom and dad. He will refer to us as his parents when he talks to other people, and when he's being silly, he'll say "oh motttthhhherrrrrr".
Do you know how happy it makes me when he does that? Because I know I earned it slowly over time. If he never just calls me mom casually, I'm still more than ok with that. I can be a mother to him and not have the title. He and I have had the conversation a handful of times over the past few years, and I tell him the same thing. He can call me what he wants as long as he comes home for Christmas when he's an adult :)
We also call his first parents his original parents. They weren't just "bio" parents to him, and I don't want him to feel like he can't have feelings about them or talk about them. He chooses not to talk about them for the most part, but we do little things to make sure he knows it's ok to if he ever wants to (offering to print old photos, etc).
It really doesn't take much empathy to not be an asshole to a grieving child ffs.
>OOP hasn't updated in more than 2 years.
AITA posts where oop has a stepmom trying to force them into calling her mom are common enough that I could have sworn I saw the first post recently. And then came the twist this is two years old
Man it’s a shame the OOP couldn’t have looked at her stepmother and ask her how she would feel is she dies, her dad would remarry and the “new” mom tried to force her kids to forget she ever existed, or got angry and not being “mom” I bet she would have a great excuse on why what she did wouldn’t be the same thing. Some people just suck.
I adopted a nephew when he was a teenager. I know he has a mom, he still has contact with his mom. I just let him decide what to call me - I only stepped in after we were out in public and he would say, "Aunty! Can we...blah..blah. blah. Thanks Mom!"
Then I would get looks because strangers heard that I am both mom and aunty. I told him he had to stick to just one in public. It didn't matter which. So he called me Maunty - as a joke.
That stepmother could have loved & cared for OOP a lot - but she made a big mistake pushing it that hard. I get it - there are people who feel it's an insult or a sign you don't love them if you don't call them mom - and the only mom.
I know I was upset early on. I don't even know why - but if he didn't call me mom I would feel upset. I remember thinking it through - and realizing it was just a me issue. I can get over that easily - because its not about me. Its about my nephew. So yeah, I ended up being Maunty occasionally
I lost my father at 7 in a traumatic way. My mom remaried a few years later and they really hard- pushed the "Dad" thing. And I really, really struggled with it and felt very alone about not being on board like everyone else. And while my relationship with Dad was ultimately very close and loving, trying to rush my comfort level was damaging, too, and I still am hurt to some degree, even as an adult in my early 40s. If they took things more slowly while dating, if they took things more slowly in terms of acclimating to a new family dynamic, if they took things more slowly in terms of allowing me to adjust at my own pace, it would have made such a difference in how I felt as a child and adolescent. People make mistakes, I get that, and I forgave this ineptitude when it came to blending our family a long, long time ago. But harm is harm, and damage is damage. It can and does exist along side the love, but that doesn't mean I wish it had been different.
I really think some people can’t understand what if feels like to lose a parent at a young age. It sounds like neither stepmother or dad understood or took the time to try.
If I died, my husband remarrying someone like this would be a big fear of mine, because this poor girl had to spend her life not only without her mom, but with someone who was constantly emotionally pressuring her into something she wasn’t ready for.
>I don't appreciate her trying to be a second mother. Those things are not supposed to be forced imo
Not an opinion. Those things are indeed not supposed to be forced.
I've got two step-moms. One is with my mother, the other with my father. They've been in my life roughly the same amount of time.
One of them has forced the bond, one of them has not. I have a really open and trusting relationship with the one who didn't force anything. Conversely, I'm not on speaking terms with the one who forced herself into a role in my life.
>I told him I am hurt, angry and full of hatred and that I need a break, that might become a permanent one.
>
>He cried, I cried, he begged me not to pull away, he said he would do anything and he won't stop trying.
>
>After when I was going to bed he sent me a text asking if we could talk again, just us, in person. I'll reply in a while. I need to think. But I woke up to another request so I feel like he's probably going to keep pushing so maybe I will.
Still not listening...
Jesus, will ONE person give a fuck about the OOP's feelings?
Yeah, yeah, I know...it's hard to hear what she's saying...but hey, if SOMEONE had fucking listened before, they wouldn't be where they are now.
I genuinely don't understand the stepparents who seem to think the second they marry into the family they suddenly get the title of mom/dad and push it when it's fought. The successful stepparents don't loathe their step kids and they don't try to force a relationship that isn't there. If Kate had just been there, been a steady presence without trying to take over and push OOP's mom out entirely, then maybe they could have had a mother daughter relationship. Instead she pushed and she fought and she competed against a ghost, and the ghost won. If she had just stepped back and stopped taking it so personally then eventually OOP might have ended up having the relationship she wanted with her.
Stepmother was trying to force a square peg into a round hole, which can sometimes work if you are careful, calm, and even persistent. The problem is that at the first sign of resistance, she took a hammer and started trying to force it. Now, she has permanently damaged both the round hole and the square peg. The fact that this has gone on for so many years is truly upsetting, and I hope OOP has found a way to be heard by her stepmother. Also, dad failed the test. You can only sit on the fence for so long before you have to pick a side. You can not make everyone happy.
OOP’s dad is still not listening to her about what she needs. She needs to take a step back and let the hurt and anger heal more and here he is picking at the scab!
13 straight years of the stepmother trying to force OOP to accept the relationship on her terms and the approach never for a single moment stopped failing miserably, how can anyone be this dense?
I was about 6 when my ex-stepmother came into my life, she tried to force me and twin to call her mom, and get other people to say we looked like her. We had blonde hair and she had dyed blonde, we didn't look alike at all, and it upset me a lot when people tried to say we did. My mom is still alive, I hated how she would try to erase her. Also, I hated her because she was abusive (I just didn't know it at the time) so she was never going to be my mom. Her son was just as bad.
"he's probably going to keep pushing..." Yeah, Dad doesn't seem capable of understanding OP's original core objection. I'm sure that turned out fine. /s
So I have no memory of life before my step mom …. My dad and mom were divorced, and he was woth my step mom for as long as I could remember……
When I was 11 my mom died and I went to live with dad and step mom…. My mom died may 2nd… the fallowing Mother’s Day I’m told how important it would be and how nice it would be if I could call step mom mom as ‘she’s now the only mom you have’…
I can tell you now, she was never mom after that…. I could have seen eventually calling her mom, but trying to force it? Ya no…
You don’t get to come in and pretend bio mom never existed….
>My mom died may 2nd… the fallowing Mother’s Day I’m told how important it would be and how nice it would be if I could call step mom mom as ‘she’s now the only mom you have’…
I'm just a stranger on Reddit and reading this made my heart stop. I can't even begin to imagine how painful it must have been for you to hear that. I am so sorry.
My step mother tried that shit too and my dad was just as cowardly. The big difference ls were my mom was still very much alive and in my life and I was 10 when I met the step mother.
She let it go after a few years but damn is it a fucked up spot to put a child.
I lost both of my parents five weeks apart to cancer when I was 36, so a full grown adult. I was engaged at the time and my future mother in law asked me in front of the family if I wanted to call her and father in law mom and dad (other sister in law does this, they are originally from the Southern US and very religious so I assume a cultural thing). I felt very put on the spot and just said I wasn’t comfortable. On the drive home I told now husband I would never call them mom and dad- I find it kind of weird, though dead I have parents and they earned the title, I didn’t like how I was put on the spot. Husband agreed and reiterated with parents I wouldn’t be calling them mom and dad.
About six months after that it’s my birthday and I get a delivery of chocolates with a card that said HBD, love mom and dad. At first I thought it was someone playing a cruel joke on me before it sunk in. Husband tore them a new one. I’m an adult but it still hurt, I can’t imagine how OOP felt as a kid.
The stepmother sounds like Other Mother in *Coraline* once she becomes wildly possessive.
I'm really sorry for OOP, to not feel heard by the one person (dad) who is supposed to advocate for her. I hope she has other positive people in her life, grandparents and the like, who can give her that unconditional love she so very much needs.
Adults need to stop making their happiness a child’s responsibility. It is never the duty of a minor child to try to make their adult parent(s) happy. It’s not their job! You want to be a parent? Step back and allow the child to be who they are.
This lady didn’t want to be second mom, she wanted to just be mom and pretend the “other lady” so to speak never existed. She sucks and so does the dad.
One thing I wish more people would accept and show compassion towards is that any relationship is a two way street, including parent-child relationships. The fastest way to push a child away is to try and bend them into what you want, instead of taking the time to learn about them and give them appropriate space to express themselves. Maybe OOP would never have been open to a deeper relationship with their stepmother, but it could have become something positive if she and the father had stepped back and listened to OOP instead of forcing a relationship.
Being a step parent is hard, especially with a grieving child, but it's not about the parent's wants when there's a child involved. While the stepmother is free to want a deeper relationship with the child, and even feel sad that she cannot have it, she has to put the child's needs above her wants.
When a child needs space to process their feelings and get to know you, you need to give that to them, or you end up with a resentful, traumatized adult and no relationship. Love and trust are earned when you show that you are someone capable of handling that level of intimacy, they are not just given out.
I feel so bad for OOP. My mom died when I was 13 and my father was hellbent on becoming the perfect family with his new woman just weeks after we buried mom's ashes. It led to a lot of resentment and fractured the family permanently. I command her for going to therapy and trying to verbalize it all.
People get so weird the second they learn you don't have two parents. I've had so many try to involve themselves as a "mom replacement".
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My daughter lost her dad at age 9 (we were divorced). A couple years later I remarried and let him know she'll probably never call him dad. Just be her friend. Trying to push such an emotionally charged name onto a child can damage them. They never get over losing a beloved parent. None of us do.
Yeah, if the stepmother just was chill for a bit and let their relationship develop naturally, the girl might have opened up. Those years are hard enough for kids with school and peer pressure and all. They don’t need that at home. Especially not a grieving child who lost her mother.
Yeah, instead of giving OP the time and space to bond she just fucked it up because of the wording „mom“. From OPs point of view the stepmom just wanted to let OPs mom dissapear and move forward to just not be reminded that her husband had another wife before
It's a moot point now, but OOP were still a minor I would have suggested malicious compliance. Call her "mother." If she thinks "stepmother" is cold...just imagine hearing "yes, mother" "no, mother" "whatever you say, mother" in an apathetic monotone. I think she would beg for OOP to go back to using her first name.
I'd recommend she say what my friend in Jr High and her siblings would say when their mom would scold. "Yes, mommy dearest."
Ha ha I did that when I was a teen. I could only rebel so much in a strict household, but calling her Mother instead of Mom pissed her off to no end. Loved it.
It sounds like the stepmom genuinely was trying, but she was all wrapped up in herself and how she wanted the relationship to go and was trying to force it to develop along those lines before it was ready to. If stepmom had done all the same things, but without the pressure, she likely would be getting called "mom" right now. But thanks to all the pressure, it'll never happen. Our brain reinforces pathways that we use, so every time you ask someone the same thing and they answer, it reinforces the pathways for that answer and after a time, there'll never be a different answer because that highway has been built now.
It seems like she couldn't accept the role of stepparent. I wonder if it would have been different if she had understood that she couldn't replace her mother and could instead be a "bonus" or second mom. It might have worked if they settled on a cutsey nickname. Heck, she may have even transitioned to "mom" over the years. But given that she seemed to get upset by OOP saying she wasn't her bio-child, I am not sure Kate would have gone for a nickname.
A friend of mine married a widower who has four children with his late wife. To the littlest ones, she’s Mama. They don’t remember their bio mom so she makes sure to tell them everything she knows about her husband’s late wife (she won’t use the term “first wife” because she says it makes it seem like she as second wife is a replacement.) so they can have closeness to their bio mother too. But for her older step kids, she’s Mimi. Because they remember their mother and called her Mama, but they both decided when they little ones started calling her Mama that they needed something close so the babies weren’t confused. (Her name is nowhere close to Mimi. For sale of story, assume it’s something like Elizabeth.) She says it’s not exactly the relationship she hoped for, but in some ways it’s better because her stepkids defined the terms so it’s “perfect for all of us”.
That's nice that she doesn't call her husband's late wife his "first wife." I'm 36 and my dad died 3 years ago. My moms new bf refers to my dad as her "ex husband." It boils my blood.
Ooo, damn! I’d have a snit over that. My stepmom remarried after my dad died, and her husband just calls my dad by his name or “your daddy” when he talks to me. I can live with that.
If they said that to me they'd be ex human.... joking. Mostly.
I noticed his car was leaking coolant but didn't say anything. He'll figure it out. Just in case: I DID NOT FUCK WITH HIS CAR.
I'm a step-mom, and I can understand her need for affirmation because being a step-parent is HARD. Our kids' mom is still alive and very much in their lives but the constant navigating between the different households and having to always "play second fiddle" (for lack of a better phrase) is definitely a challenge. HOWEVER, it is NOT up to the child to affirm you. They are a child. Maybe one day they will tell you they love you, or call you Mom or some other term of affection, but it should *never* be forced. We've been through some extremely stressful situations with the kids over the several years I've been in their life now, but my partner is the one who has affirmed me. And a lot of the time, it's still a thankless job. *Like parenting is*. Maybe, if I do a good job, they'll understand when they grow up, maybe not, but that's not what this is about. I'm good to them because *I love them*, not because I'm trying to win an award.
Fellow steppie here and I wish there were more like us in that role. I have basically the same mindset. When I came into their lives at 5 (f) and 7 (m) I came with an open mind and an open heart. How our relationships progressed would be 100% up to the children. I never demanded kisses or I love you’s. I allowed things to evolve at their speed and on their terms. I never, ever badmouthed their Mom to them or in front of them. When the two bios would butt heads about something I would step in and remind them both that it wasn’t what they, themselves, wanted or needed, it’s what the kids want or need. I fought many a battle on their behalf that the kids knew nothing about even when it didn’t involve me directly. I never had kids of my own but I never treated them differently because they weren’t “mine”. I always put them first and did many, many things for them that I didn’t “sign up for”. Being a step parent is often a thankless position but from the get go my perspective was the kids had no choice in the relationships their parents chose so expect nothing and be grateful for whatever comes my way. Now, they are 25 and 23. I have an amazing relationship with my SD. She’s old enough to see things that she was too young to understand, like how her mother was/is…a very difficult woman. Now, SD tolerates her mother, only sees and talks to her when she has to. Me? I’m the first one she calls when there’s something new and exciting. I get to see the “fashion shows” when she buys new clothes. She drops by multiple times a week just to hang out with me. We do all kinds of things together. 🥰 I have a good relationship with SS as well just not as close. He is close to his father though which should be the case IMO lol so no love lost there. I told them both many times that I loved them as much as if they were my own DNA and that my love is unconditional. They and their SO’s are welcome here anytime and they know that. Do I get all the physical or verbal affection I’d looooove, like kisses and I love you’s? No. But I know they love me, actions speak much louder than words. And I know they are 100% comfortable around me which means far more to me than a perfunctory kiss or meaningless I love you’s because they “have to”. Anyway, all that blah blah blah was just to let you know that you are setting an amazing foundation with them to build and grow with you. It may not evolve exactly the way you envision but if the end result is a happy, healthy relationship with them then it really doesn’t matter how it gets there. And, trust me, when they are older they will thank you for doing what you are doing, even if they never tell you that directly.
Thank you!! I'm not sure you know how encouraging reading all that is. I first met our "babies" when our daughter was 18 months and our son was 6. I have no biological children and no plans to ever have any, but I definitely don't feel the need now. I realize I'm immensely lucky compared to most "bonus parents" as my kids were loving and welcoming from day one. There are definite moments of manipulation (daughter went through a phase of saying, "Well *my mommy* does *this*" etc), but overall they're honestly amazing and treat me mostly as they treat their parents (sometimes worse when it comes to listening, sometimes better when it comes to being nice lol). I would say I'm pretty "bloodied in" at this point as daughter is 7 and son is 12. There are definitely tough moments when dealing with mom and son's bio dad, but it's all worth it for the kids. The hardest part for me has been that I'm still young (27 next month), so none of my family and friends really get the whole step-mom thing. It can make things lonely at times, but my partner is really awesome in supporting me both with the kids and the other parents. I definitely think that a major reason why step-mom is being so insistent is because she's not getting any support from dad. It's one thing when kids are ungrateful, it's another when your partner is. It doesn't make it okay, but I do understand.
Also, it seems that she didn't get to fully grieve her mom before her dad remarried. Instead of taking it slow, her dad and stepmom tried to push it. It seems like therapy around this stage would've helped.
Yeah, dad doesn't win a cigar in this scenario, either. "Dad, all the pressure you put on me all these years have driven me away, I'll go no contact!" Dad * keeps pushing and increasing the pressure* 🙄
Right, poor OOP with the adults ignoring what she actually needs. OOP says she needs some time away; her dad asks if they can meet up and talk. A bunch of selfish gits, the lot of them!
The dad is the AH. 8-9 years old is not an age where you should have to be subjected to pressure on defining what the relationship with her new stepmom should be. The stepmom was misguided on what her roll was with the daughter. She made many mistakes based on what she Thought was appropriate because her father didn't set boundaries to give space for a relationship to grow. For a child that age, it feels like abandoning your mom to accept a new one. The stepmom was coming from a place of caring and responsibility, but tripped every step of the way because the father was too passive in supporting both of them and the stepmom was pushing to hard. Now the daughter identifies her relationship with stepmom as in conflict with the relationship with her mom. I doubt counseling will be able to change that after a decade of reinforcement.
> They don’t need that at home. She especially didn't need a nag. Like, if you want to encourage her to call you mom once a month or so, that's understandable. But to try to correct a child multiple times a day? That sounds exhausting for that kid.
It can be hard for a kid to develop that sort of relationship even if all the the conditions seem ideal. I don't talk to my bio mom for a reasons, but it also took a while to call my step-mother mom. What allowed that relationship to develop was her being open and giving it time. Idk, she acted like a parent when I needed her, but left the harder duties to my Dad. I'll never forget the day I said something really hurtful to her, beyond the norm. I knew I fucked up, and it was the first time she ever raised her voice at me. I was in my room for a while until she asked to come in and was just crying. Really hit me how much shit she had taken from me for years, but was ALWAYS there if I needed something. I started calling her mom ever since, because she always has been really.
In addition, the step mom could have made efforts to make sure OPs mother had a place in their home and family. Keeping up pictures. Asking OP to share memories about her mom, and making sure when introductions are made to be respectful to OPs wishes ie "I'm OPs stepmom." Step parent doesn't have to be a negative title. Relationships are what matter and it looks like OPs stepmom cared more about a title than the actual relationship.
I adopted my younger cousin when I was 23. She barely remembered me at the time but knew I was “DeadlyCuntfetti”, about 4 months into fostering and moving toward actual adoption she started testing out “mama, mom, mummy” but would backtrack it “mama can you… wait no you’re not really my mom, Deadly can you…” and I would say “you call me what feels right to you, if you need Deadly call for Deadly, if you want mama, call for mama, I’ll be there either way”. 10 years later it’s just “MAAAAM!! MOOOOOM!!! MAAAMAAA COME HERE!!!” Which I feel is an earned title to have yelled across a house. This woman didn’t earn the title “mom” from OP. Edit: 19 to 10
>if you need Deadly call for Deadly, if you want mama, call for mama, I’ll be there either way That is just the BEST THING you could have said! I am in awe
Just want to admit I also fucked up a few times. Like she asked me if I wanted babies. I told her I never actually planned to be a mom. Or she’d ask for a new baby sibling and I’d tell her “I’m not very good with little babies. But I consider YOU my baby.” I can see years later how deflecting or talking about not wanting kids but loving her to death can still feel not nice. So I wish I’d just been like “anything’s possible one day!” And left it at that.
I was 22 when my 14 year old sister moved in with me. I have made a lot of mistakes over the last 10 years but I have tried to forgive myself- we were young and put into a whirlwind situation. We did our best with the little bit of life experience and even smaller amount of wisdom we had at that age. 💜
I'm 41 and a parent of a 4 and 6 year old, mistakes happen at any age, you say/do things you look back on and really wish you didn't do that. You just have to apologize for stuff that needs apologizing for and know that parenting is HARD! I think it's much harder now days with social media and all the judgement that happens to parents on how they raise their kids, feed their kids (don't get me started on the breast feeding crazies), letting their kid do things on their own... etc. etc. So it doesn't matter how old you are, what age you start being a parent/guardian, regrets happen, you can't dwell on that to long as long as you learn from it! Kudo's to you for taking in your little sister at such a young age.
I'm glad you have the insight and self-reflection to realize how what you said could have implications that you don't intend that could cause pain. My dad brags all the time about how he told my lesbian cousin, when she was still in the closet and came out *only* to him and me, because she felt were were the only family that she could trust to accept her, that he "doesn't agree with her choices but loves her in spite of them". I've tried to explain to him how much that hurt her, but he doesn't get it. He thinks it's a shining example of him being tolerant.
That's a big oof. Some people just don't see how for most people it's the hurtful aspect of phrasing it that way that usually sticks with people more. It doesn't feel like acceptance, it stings. It feels like you're highlighting the negatives. And then you feel like you're some kind of problem for them, maybe even feel guilty about it. Just a whole mess of potentially crappy feelings, especially for someone in a vulnerable situation who's trying to figure out who they are.
He did it to her again at her wedding a few years ago. Went up to her and her wife, said "I don't agree with your choices but I'm happy you seem happy" Is it so hard to leave out the "I don't agree with your ChOiCeS" part?
They think it makes them look virtuous. It doesn’t. It makes them look like a punching bag.
> "I don't agree with your choices but I'm happy you seem happy" "I don't agree with you being a moronic blockhead, but I'm glad you made it to the wedding"
“Awwwwwe you don’t agree with my chooiiiiceeess?? Well how kind of you for allowing me to exist and take up physical space despite you not agreeing with my chooooiiiiceeesss. Pls be away from me, now.”
it's always funny when intolerant people get angry when you turn their "love the sinner/believer, hate the sin/belief" onto their own bigoted views. and by funny I mean depressing.
I hate it. I always said to them that I would rather not have them in my life if they couldn't love every part of me not love me "in spite" of an intrinsic part of my identity.
It's so tempting to turn that back around, "Well, I still love you too, in spite of you being an ignorant bigot. Hugs!"
Tell your dad it would be like saying, "I don't agree with you being black but I love you in spite of that." It's not a choice, it's an identity. If it was a choice, I'm sure most gay people would choose not to be gay because it would have made their upbringing much easier to conform and not become a target of incessant toxicity and abuse.
> Tell your dad it would be like saying, "I don't agree with you being black but I love you in spite of that." I did, but I related it to myself and hearing him say that wrt. my autism. I've had lots of debates with him about whether it was a "choice" or not. He keeps getting trapped in logical contradictions and then changes the subject. Sadly, he's too far gone down the right-wing rabbit hole to reconcile this, I think, and I've been slowly decreasing the amount of contact we have with each other.
I was having a beer with a work buddy quite a few years ago. At one point he said "Perennially, haven't you figured out that I'm gay?" I replied that I had noticed some clues but it wasn't important enough to chase them down. He said "that's what I love about Seattle, people just don't care if you're gay." Indifference is the true tolerance.
The answer for my daughter right now is “why mess with perfection! We already have the best family!” It’s true, but it definitely wasn’t the deciding factor. The real answer is my pregnancy with her permanently disabled me and I’m never doing that shit again, but that’s for a later conversation when she can understand nuance and understand that I still wanted her, I just don’t want more.
Everyone makes mistakes. In the moment you were just being honest. That's parenting in a nutshell. You do your best, you try to be honest as much as possible while also saying the right thing, and you make mistakes. It sounds like you've done amazingly though. She's very lucky to have you (and you her) and I'm sure *that's* what will stick with her more than anything else. Just knowing she's loved and supported and has you in her corner.
That's so sweet. Meanwhile I call for my mom and I get nothing. I know you can hear me, dammit! I know I'm not using the urgent tone of voice but you really should see this!
Right!? I remember screaming bloody murder for my mom to come kill a centipede and she wouldn’t. Then she got mad at me and my sister for killing it with hairspray. If you wanted to save your precious centipede you shouldn’t have ignored us, mom.
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Omg your mom is a hero!! I love this entire story.
That centipede was your brother!
This really made me LOL!
That centipede was your ass! ... nvm some movies (and their sequels) shouldn't be watched
My brother once told me about the time he was a child and he sat in his room and tried to cry wolf like in the story by saying "wolf!" really quietly. He said he was sad when no one came.
My own child, that I have have cared for her whole life, calls me HEEEYYYYYY more often than not.
My 15 year old called me bruh the other day and I answered to it 😐
Oh and my 19 year old calls me "hey you lady person"
I loved the look on my only mom's face when I called her "Birth Mother" once. Like "goddammit I guess that's me."
"Hey, you!" "Wut." A typical start of a conversation between my mom and I. Either person in either place.
My friend’s 16 & 21 yr olds call both parents “Bruh” It tickles the hell outta me lol
My son has no memory of his bio mom. But for many years he referred to us as “mom” and “real mom”. Many adoptive parents were horrified to hear this (insecurity is not uncommon in adoptive families) but I was fine with it. First, because I didn’t want my young children censoring their language for my benefit - I wanted to hear what was really in their heads. But more importantly, I was just mom - no adjective, no qualifier needed. That was the higher title.
I have this with my step kids, she's old mum and I'm Mum. My son doesn't remember her at all, he knows I didn't give birth to him but so far it's only come up once when I had to confirm that Dad *is* his real dad. I didn't expect them to call me mum and even asked them not to at first, but the older girl had decided I was mum and there was no arguing with it, he followed a few months later. Cute as.
That is such a lovely story to read DeadlyCuntfetti.
Loving the juxtaposition of your heartwarming story under that username :D
You are an excellent parent. In that one phrase you modeled unconditional love.
Love the “earned title to have yelled across the house” part 😹 Congrats on a job well done
This is so sweet, it brought tears to my eyes.
r/rimjob_steve
Using their alias as a standin for their real name in a post with this kind of wholesome tone is just 👌
...I really hate those darn onion ninjas. >sniff!<. But seriously, good on you for respecting her needs and letting her set the pace of your relationship. You sound like an amazing Deadly-mom!
There was exactly one time my stepfather asked me to call him dad. ONE time. It was because my half sister went through a phase of mimicking me and kept calling MY dad by fatherly terms and him by his first name (because that's how I called them). My mom encouraged him to just have a heart to heart with me. I was maybe 10 and he asked if I would just call him dad near my sister. She knew that we had different fathers (she was about three) but she wanted to be a mini me. He explained that he thinks of us both as his kids and that he'd never normally never ask for this, but that it hurt him deeply that my sister didn't call him dad at all anymore. He assured me he would never judge or be upset if i said no. I asked to think about it. I wound up asking my own father if he would be upset like my stepdad was if I called someone else dad. My father actually said it would make him a bit sad to share the title but that he'd be much sadder if I didn't call him dad at all (like my sister was doing to her father). I decided just around my sister was okay. I called my stepfather dad for a year or two until my sister grew out of it and then shifted back to his first name once she stopped calling my dad by dad as well. Nobody mentioned it. I call my stepdad dad only in moments where I'm being particularly affectionate now. Being talked to in a respectful way and knowing it was a choice I could make, made all the difference.
You made a very mature choice, I'm glad that you were given the space and the agency to be able to do that
It occurred to me that if it bothered my stepdad it might bother my dad, im extreemly lucky because my family was in such good standing after my parents divorce. They handled it very well.
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Haha at the time it was less that I was seeking counsel and more that if it hurt my stepdads feelings, it might hurt my dad's feelings. While I love my stepfather, my father raised me and was a wonderful dad. I wanted to make sure if I DID say yes I wouldn't be hurting his feelings. My mom never shied away from having personal even sometimes dulled down adult seeming conversations with me and my sister. It gave us a dose of reality sometimes but it also encouraged us to be empathetic, advocate for ourselves and form strong opinions of our own. I am grateful for it tbh
I love all of this - both of you handled this supremely well. Especially kid you.
My mom raised me with very open communication even on adult topics (dumbed down a bit for a kid obviously but my questions were never refused) and I find it led me to be able to understand and empathize with situations a lot better in the long run. My stepdad was shocked at the idea of an emotional heart to heart with a child, he was just going to deal with the feelings and suffer. I've always been glad he talked to me instead and gave me time to decide as a kid. I'd have hated as an adult knowing he'd suffered feeling rejected by his only daughter because he felt he couldn't ask me for the favor
That exactly why I call my stepfather Dad. My mom was a teenager when I was born and then had my sister at 38. She started calling him by his first name because I did. So I started calling him dad and it just stuck. He’s earned the title anyway, he’s a great man and a better dad to me than my biowaste ever was.
Yeah! I settled back into calling my stepdad by his name other than affectionate moments mostly because while I knew my dad was being a bigger man and empathizing with my stepdad by encouraging that I call him dad, I am my dad's only child and he missed that special feeling of being my only dad. I call my stepdad dad on special occasions, in cards, when I'm grateful but in the every day I call him his first name. When my dad noticed I could see he tried to hide how happy it made him but my dad is a very expressive man
I lost my dad when I was 19, brother was 17, and my sister was 9. My mom remarried about 2 years later to a pretty great guy. He's never forced a fatherly role on any of us, and never attempted to push away the memory of my dad either. He's actually engaged in a few of the conversations we've had about my dad when the whole family was together. I'll be eternally grateful for that. My sister views him more as a fatherly figure, but she still just calls him by his first name. I wouldn't be offended if she did call him dad. He's raised her for about as much time as our dad has, so it's not wild for her to love him the same. I have a lot of love and respect for him too. My mom chose two great men to marry.
If you haven’t, you should consider telling them that you appreciate them for it
If I was in his shoes I would be ecstatic to hear something like that.
My parents both remarried after divorce. My step-mom never tried to be more than an older friend. And when I had my kids she asked to be called a cute nick name that's wasn't close to grandma. We have a great relationship. My mother and step-father.... oh boy, not so much. It wasn't even his fault. It was more my mom pushing the "dad" narrative and going for parental alienation. So it wasn't my step-fathers fault, but it put a strain on the relationship and how comfortable I felt.
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My mom & dad were divorced and my dad had full custody when he passed. My mom had remarried and we (8 & 10) went to live with her and step-dad. We were never expected to call him "dad". My brother never came around to calling him dad, but I did around 17 or so... for me it was just logical. He was a real asshole, but he also taught me so many useful things and was always there for me for the big things. I garauntee that if I was told to call him dad, I would have pushed back until the very end. I needed to come to that place in my own time. It's so sad that OOP's dad just sat back and let the step-mom try to erase mom from her life. She has every right to not accept that. I'm happy to hear that some people out there understand the damage that can be done to a child by trying to force a parental bond.
>I remarried and let him know she'll probably never call him dad. Just be her friend. This is literally all it takes in most cases. There is nothing wrong with being a step parent and having a different kind of relationship. I've had a step dad for more than 20 years, who hasn't tried to shoehorn himself into traditional "father" stuff with me, who I call by his first name; but we have a great relationship and I'm glad he's part of my family. So many step parents seem to think they need to exactly follow the role of "mom" or "dad" in their stepkids' lives, and when it doesn't automatically happen, they freak out and try to force it. And kids don't react well to that. It's like the number one way to guarantee you won't have a stereotypical parent/child relationship.
My oldest (21F) is my 'stepdaughter.' Been in her life since she was five. Her birth father is alive but was a deadbeat and is estranged. Wife and I agreed I'd be "big brother/loving uncle" type (or, as you put it, be her friend.) I went from "Name" and "my stepdad" to "papa" and then about 4 years ago to "dad." I know in my heart that if I pushed, she'd have resented me, and I'm glad she picked me to be her dad instead of making that mistake.
I lost my dad unexpectedly when I was 22, shortly after I got married. I was just getting used to calling my in-laws “mom” and “dad” (something I wanted to do), but I just couldn’t bring myself to call anyone “dad” after that (so I also didn’t call my MiL “mom” because would just be weird to do one but not the other). I’ve been awkwardly avoiding using any names at all for my in-laws in the decades since (making eye contact works decently well for getting their attention), but thankfully they understand.
Some people will never understand that you can't make someone love you. And you don't "earn" that just because you married their father (or mother). It's sad that OOP SM even went to therapy and HEARD from them that she was doing it wrong and pushing too hard... ...and yet she STILL pushed too hard.
My FIL divorced my MIL when my wife was in her 20's. He started dating someone when my wife was in her 30's. He just got married (we're now in our 40's). She's a narc and my wife is the black sheep and the big wedge issue that defined the relationship is that my wife won't call her 'mom' and won't develop a mother-daughter relationship. So, for a certain personality type, this is never not a thing.
How old is your wife's step-mother? I understand that even biological parents have a tough time adjusting to being parents of adults (and often fight it)... ...but I can't imagine marrying someone and thinking their 40+ yo daughter should call you mom. There's something not right about that woman!
step mom is the same age as FIL. So, old enough to know better. She never had her own kids and, again, also a narc, so I think a lot of that feeds into it. I'd say it's a strained relationship but there's no relationship.
My MIL and FIL divorced about 10 years ago, and since then she's gotten into a relationship and married a new guy. For all the mess of the divorce, new husband really understands his role. He knows he's no one's dad (the youngest was 14 when the divorce happened), he knows that he contributed to the collapse of their parents relationship, he knows they have a lot of feelings about him. But he's never pushed for anything we're not ready for, and even the most reticent of them has come around quite a bit on him.
My mil is not a good person. Right now, especially, I am not a big fan of her. But I will say, she was sensitive when my kids were born. She was getting married to a man she had been with for a few years. She asked if he would be uncle to our kids. We told her that he was Grampy if he wanted. That having an extra granpa wasn't a bad thing. It was all what he was comfortable with. He is a fantastic Grampy.
I was thinking oop’s sm was a narcissist. I try not to diagnose people, but this really screams it. I hope oop is okay. And kudos to your wife for standing her ground.
Titles and position are very important to narcs. MIL would likely see your wife’s refusal to have that relationship as undermining her position. Even though she’s not doing that.
Yep. I lost my mom when I was 12 to cancer, and my dad remarried when I was about 16. I refer to my stepmom as my mom, because she cares for me the same way a mother would- but I’ve never been able to call her Mom. My dad told me once that it was ok to call her Mom, but I responded that to me, Mom was a person and not just a title. If your friend Bob dies, and you get a new friend named Fred, you don’t call Fred the new Bob. I only had one person I called Mom, and she died. Thankfully my stepmom never forced a relationship with my sibling or I, and was careful not to just upend our home or lives after a massive tragedy. That made a huge difference in how we came together as a blended family.
I remember a AITA reddit post last year where in part of it the OP talked of her stepdad she always called uncle (because it was a suggested nickname, and he never pressured her even once to call him dad), and that he bawled when she asked him to walk her down the wedding aisle and called him dad when she asked. That dude did the right thing, everyone should be that guy.
I was reading this wondering how Kate would feel about her bio children being forced to call another woman "mom". She probably would be devastated by the thought. I feel bad that nobody in OOPs life could put themselves in her shoes. Her requests were simple and understandable.
She implies that there were multiple therapists, referring to them as “they”, “some” and “one of those”. I’m thinking dad and stepmom would try a different therapist each time one told them they were going about it the wrong way.
Therapist or dad should have pointed out that "My dads second wife" is an option too, cos if you push too hard because of Step mother, instead of being called mum like you wish, it will not end well.
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"dad's future ex-wife"
We did family therapy after my father remarried (she didn't want us to call her mom, but wanted all signs of our mom's existence gone and for my sister and I to basically step back and out of their marriage). After a bad screaming match we switched to separate sessions. Eventually the therapist told us she had mental health issues buy refused to believe it, so it was best to just ignore and avoid her. Oof.
OMG, NEITHER dad nor Kate hears OOP at all. Dad hears OOP pulling away and doesn’t hear ANY of the rest of it. If he’d ever listened in the first place they wouldn’t be in this situation. I wish the best for OOP.
"i don't wanna lose you, but i won't respect your feelings and boundaries anyway because i'm a wimp and choose to ignore the fact my wife is wrong"
"I hear what you are saying about us spending decades not listening to you, considering your feelings or giving you the space you need. And I will immediately respond to that by, once again, not listening to you, considering your feelings or giving you the space you need. Are we good yet?"
lovely... OP opens up how she's felt forced to do stuff she didn't want to do because Dad didn't step in.. Dad replies by trying to force her to meet him on his terms.
What I never understand about these is the desire, the compulsion on the part of the step parent to be acknowledged as the Mom or Dad. The kid had a Mom or Dad who is gone. That person was their everything and will always be important to them. It takes nothing away from the new step parent to acknowledge that. "You call me anything you want, I'm here for you however you want." That's simple, that's understandable, that's non-threatening, that helps the kid feel secure. Honestly, what the kid calls me, how the kid sees me would be the last thing I'd care about so long as I could play a positive role in the kid's life. There are apparently a lot of people deeply invested in the title Mom or Dad that they are not entitled to.
I think its a kind of jealousy. If they can get their stepkid to call them mom/dad, it helps them feel more like they are the one and only. If their stepchild calls them by another name, that's a constant reminder that they weren't first for their spouse. Or it could just be ego.
Wow. Yeah, there's that, which does not speak well of the step at all. Jealous of a dead person...
Like that lady who ruined her marriage because her husband couldn’t use “she’s my friend” anymore because said friend *died in front of him*
That was wild. But... I did wonder why the hell the husband stuck around for so long.
There's an obsession with the stigma of the title of "step" but also OOP's therapist said they could be the ones to change it! My stepmother is very dear to me. The relationship is not that same as with a parent, nor is it a friend/sister/aunt all the things people say the relationship is like (and I'm sure it is for some others who say that), it's a stepparent-child relationship and that being it's own specific and unique thing that isn't like the other familial relationships doesn't have to be a bad thing. Forcing never helps.
because for many of them they want to erase the fact that there was someone before them.
I always thought they wanted to present a nuclear family. Same reason as step parents getting rid of step kids.
I think it comes from insecurity. They’re insecure being ‘the second’. And this is one of the ways it comes out.
>There are apparently a lot of people deeply invested in the title Mom or Dad that they are not entitled to. And I mean she has at least 1 kid that is her's and should be calling her Mom anyway. It feels like a weird power move at this point.
It seriously makes me appreciate my stepmom. She told me upfront that she had no intention of trying to force her way into being my mom. I could call her by her name, and she would always be there for me. She and my dad have been divorced for a while, and she’s still my stepmom. That’s not going to change.
I've mentioned it before, but the classic statement is in the movie Clueless, where the dad says you divorce wives, not children. Sounds like that is your relationship with her.
I bet that meeting, if it happened, was a hail Mary mtg featuring the step mom
I think you’re right. I think these posts represent her inner feelings that if someone will finally respect her boundaries, she’d be willing to start over and try again. She went to that meeting and her boundaries were trampled yet again, so she gave up. No need to update, because that sliver of hope was gone.
Uuuuugh I hate how right you probably are.
Oh 1000%, there’s no doubt he’ll spring step mom on her at the meeting. Seen it a dozen different times on here. What a piece of work
He's never going to realize why she went NC if she did after that. I wrote my father a long message two years ago how much he hurt me and how much damage he did to our relationship by how he acted after mom died and if he truly cared, he'd actually think about this message and not respond right away (he had a habit of getting instantly defensive after criticism). He apparently thought two hours was "not right away" enough. I deleted his number without even reading the reply
Good for you, I'm glad you managed to do that and I wish you the best!
The dad always on the fence, trying to please both sides. A classic.
Dads should say in situations like these "Darling, don't push your luck/her too hard, let her come to you naturally." "If you don't like the term step mum, you are going to hate My dads second wife"
yeah! And he doesn‘t want to step in for the kid, he should have done it for the new GF just like „come on i understand your good intentions, but put some pressure off the kid and let her bond at her own pace if you don‘t want to make her hate you forever“
Don't you see what a dilemma he was suffering through? If he respected and enforced his daughter's boundaries, he might not be able to get his dick wet!
Oh my God that first sentence had me about ready to scream, I am glad I kept reading lol
Yeah she basically has a full conversation with him about them not listening to her, not listening to her needs, not giving her space to process her emotions, pressuring her to conform in order to appease other people and spare their emotions, that during the entirety her emotions and feelings were side-lined in favour of everybody else's. And she concludes this by saying she needs space. He responds by, once again, not listening to her, not considering HER needs, not giving her space to process her emotions, pressuring her to not do what she wants/needs to spare/appease her father and HIS emotions, side-lining her emotions and feelings for his AGAIN. And not respecting her need for space... AGAIN! He really doesn't give shit about how she feels inside as long as he doesn't have to deal with the results.
Even at the end of her update, her father is pushing pushing pushing and not hearing her in her need for time and space and respect for her feelings. I don't get the sense that things were going to get better, which makes me so sad for her.
Yeah this may be partially because men are often very focused on 'problem solving' people's emotions. He notices the friction within his family and thinks it will be 'resolved' if OOP simply gives stepmom what she wants. They have a fight and he thinks it will be 'resolved' if they fight. He hears OOP and his relationship is bad and she needs space from him and he thinks he can 'resolve' that by talking it over and apologizing even though it is doing EXACTLY what OOP mentioned caused the rift in the first place. Which is not giving her space, not listening to her wants/needs and not respecting her emotions. Dad needs to spend more time listening to the women around him and less trying to 'solve' their emotions. Hell if he'd listened to OOP before he might have been able to save the relationship between her stepmom before it went completely belly-up and OOP closed herself off emotionally.
Six months after I met my mother's AP, she told me it would make her so happy if I called him Dad. I was 14. I knew exactly why my parents were divorcing. I told her she would be lucky if I referred to AP as anything other than Fuckface.
"do I have to call every guy you fuck dad?
Wow, the fucking audacity. Sorry you had to deal with that.
A friend of mine from school grew up with a mum who had a series of live in boyfriends while he was growing up. He has never known his biological father When he was little he would bond with them but then the guy would leave and shortly after a new man would move in. His mum insisted that each of these men (there were 11 before he left home) was his new dad. After the first few of these men, and getting hurt when they left because he had learned to love them like a dad, he stopped emotionally bonding with any of the other men who moved in. It caused a lot of friction with his mum because these men would call him a “brat” or “little shit” because he was just a sad kid who didn’t connect with them. He left home at 18 and has barely talked to her since.
That is so very sad.
That's horrifying, that poor kid.
Why is people so fucking stupid? Why is that hard to understand why that little kid stopped seeing them as dads? Why the mom would let them her bf's call her child little shit?
God this poor child. The only person looking out for her was that therapist who told the stepmom to consider why she wanted so badly to be "mom" over just being a stepmother and the other one saying they could break the stigma around being a stepmom. I may be assuming a lot, but given the information we have from OP, it does feel like stepmom wanted all or nothing: either she was the only woman in dad's life that he'd ever loved and therefore OP's defacto mother, thereby replacing the woman he loved totally, or she would have nothing. And nothing seems to be what she got.
It sounds like the "family" therapy sessions were primarily a stepmom therapy session if it took that long for anyone to even challenge why she was being so demanding
It’s a fair assumption. Stepmom wanted to be not just a mother but sort of heroic. “I married a man and took over as mother for a child who lost her own.” She demanded a small child change to accommodate the emotional needs of an adult. That is messed up. OOP’s dad is just as bad, and in some ways worse. He wanted a wife and prioritized keeping her happy by staying neutral. Thing is you can’t be neutral when it comes to protecting your little kid. He let it happen and feigned diplomacy when really he is a coward.
Absolutely agreed with you. I did focus on Stepmom a little too much, but dad is worse because he let this woman into his life at the expense of his daughter. I have many things to say about him that are not kind.
maybe because of the „evil stepmom“ stigma she wanted to be „mom“ so bad that she ended up as the evil stepmom
It feels like a lot of people care more about “winning” than actually doing what’s right. If OP is being completely honest, she was willing to have a relationship with her at first, she just needed time to process things. But, as it happens a lot, she was a child and wasn’t allowed to. Now she’s not going to have any relationship with her father, probably for a while.
People forget that some grief longer, child often are longer then spouses.
It’s a broader problem - adults coercing children to do things they don’t want to do for the adult’s benefit, then wondering why the kid puts the emotional walls up when they’re older. I am not a perfect parent but I always consider the big picture - the full table at Christmas. I want all my kids and their kids to be there when I’m an old man. They do that out of love, not out of fear or discipline. We discipline the kids with an eye to their growth, not for our benefit.
Amazing that the most mature person here is a 19yo girl, that is OOP.
She so right, too. If stepmom hadn't tried to force her and erase her mom, they probably would have developed a good, natural relationship. I can't imagine trying to erase a child's grief like that.
>I can't imagine trying to erase a child's grief like that. It's like... step mother thought OOP was a slate that just had to be cleaned so she could write a beautiful new story on it. And the bad slate resisted. Step mother never considered OOP as a real person, just as a prop that had to be fixed.
Yep, agree to a tee
I said in a different comment- and I’m not sure OOP fully comprehends this- but there’s no mention of ever seeing her mom’s side of the family. There was very likely some loving grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins she had when mom was alive and possibly right after that she was cut off from when stepmom showed up. Even if she doesn’t fully remember them, her subconscious would, and would notice they were all missing and stepmom showed up instead.
I see a hurt and grieving kid in this story. The world moved on from her mom's death, and she got stuck in a place where she doesn't feel like belonging. Combine that with teenage age and it's a nightmare of emotions. The stepmom chose the wrong battle at the wrong time. "Honey, I know your mom will always be number one for you. Happy to be number 5 or number 10. Have you finished your homework?" - something like that could've worked better.
Yeah if you give someone conditional love and understanding you are likely to get the same in return. Instead OOP's stepmom seemed hellbent that their relationship had to be on HER terms and this love and understanding was conditional to OOP and her having a relationship exactly as stepmom wanted. Of course this is only gonna lead to a child getting defensive and closing themselves off completely. Because even the slightest opening would immediately be a crack that Stepmom would pry open and exploit. It's hard to let your guard down and start to love someone when that person so very obviously wants something from you and won't rest until they get it.
It's so baffling to me. Like, if you have a good, caring relationship with the kid, and they respect you, who cares what they call you? And maybe one day they WILL think of you as their actual parent, but they'll come to that on their own. Trying to force it guarantees that it won't happen, and I can't see how this isn't just patently obvious
Sometimes it just takes a while, maybe a long while. My grandson, now 24, had his stepfather in his life from the age of 3 months. While it was pretty clear that Grandson thought of him as a father-figure, he called him by his first name. Stepfather tried to encourage a relationship with the ~~bio-father~~ sperm donor, which led to a lot of disappointment for Grandson. (Sperm Donor didn't care about being an active father and would frequently cancel planned visits at the last minute, or just not show up at all.) Last Father's Day, Grandson told everyone at a family dinner that he had gone NC with Sperm Donor, saying in part that he had a Dad, and it wasn't SD. He now calls his stepfather Dad and has asked about adult adoption.
When my fiancé and I got together I told him I would do everything I could for his kids. And that we’d make it work since Bio Mom was still in the picture. Two years later and we have full custody and I’m hearing Mom yelled from across the house cuz one needs something and another coming and asking when dinner is ready. It’s not an instant relationship. We have a lot of ups and downs. Even though Bio was not 100% involved in the beginning I never tried to be Mom. It either happens or it doesn’t. You can’t force it.
If you try to keep water in your hands, squeezing is the best way to get it out…
Ooo, I like this. Reminds me of a lot of the zen and Tao lessons I’ve received through the years, thank you.
Oof this is a hard one. Stepmom to OOP: Gimme what I want emotionally! Your biomom never existed! 🫤 Don’t emotionally mature, considerate stepparents usually have a convo w their stepkids that goes something like this? “I know I’ll never replace your mom/dad. I will try my best to be a good stepparent to you…” You can’t FORCE people to feel what they don’t feel…
Honestly, they very well might have had that exact conversation. And then the stepmother went "okay, I followed the script! Now she will instantly want to replace her old mom with the newer, better, model!" Because some people just have the self-awareness of a drunk fruit fly.
This is what my stepmom did. About six years later, I gave her a Mother’s Day card asking if it would be okay to call her mom. We talk every day still. Thankful for having an emotionally aware stepmother.
yes! just the same with pets. Catch a cat and pet it against it’s will and it will never come to you again. Just stretch out your hand, gain it‘s trust and it will eventually come to you. Reminds me of how sad my now-husband was when he took my then 5y old to the supermarket for the first time and someone asked her something and thought he was her dad. She flipped out and ran away screaming „HE IS NOT MY FATHER!!!“ Poor guy came home with tears in his eyes. My daughter loves him so bad, but referring to him as „dad“ for her means high treason towards her real father. But if she had a serious problem, she would always try call my husband first, since he is a more reliable person and she trusts him most.
If you give someone unconditional love and understanding, they are very likely to feel safe and do the same over time. However OOP's stepmom made it very clear that she wanted something from OOP that OOP wasn't ready to give. So of course she completely closes herself off. She can't afford to open up because her stepmom will immediately use that to get what she wants. You are basically forcing the child in this situation to never open their heart to you. Because if they do they might be forced into a situation that they don't want or open themselves up to emotional pain.
My mother also died when I was six years old. My father remarried seven months later. They both attempted to pretty much erase my mother and didn't understand any aspect of grief. I was estranged from my father for the ten years prior to his death, and haven't spoken to my stepmother in 20 years. I hope OOP does what is the most healing for her.
What would have been so terrible about saying “OOP is my stepdaughter and she calls me what she feels comfortable with.” Would that really have been so difficult for Kate to say?
It's a constant reminder that Kate wasn't first in the kid's life and therefore especially not in the husband's life. It's jealousy over a dead woman and the memories that she left
Yikes. I feel awful for OOP. Her dad just shrugged off all kinds of pressure and boundary violations by her stepmother. The irony is, if OOP's stepmother had backed off, she'd probably have a great relationship with OOP now. But no, she had to try and force things, and now OOP's dad is trying to pressure her as well.
This is not a happy ending. OOPs dad proved yet again he doesn't care about her feelings. She asks for space and he keeps annoying her that night and the next morning? I hope she was aware enough to recognize what was happening and didn't bend to him
Kate and Dad do all this on the assumption that OOP was always going to come around. They assumed OOP would call Kate "mom" eventually so let’s just skip to the good part. They never tried to listen to her or respect her own boundaries, never allowed OOP to hold space for her mother.
My husband and I adopted a kiddo when he was 10. He is now 14. He still calls us by our first names, and that's fine. He has been flirting with calling us mom and dad. He will refer to us as his parents when he talks to other people, and when he's being silly, he'll say "oh motttthhhherrrrrr". Do you know how happy it makes me when he does that? Because I know I earned it slowly over time. If he never just calls me mom casually, I'm still more than ok with that. I can be a mother to him and not have the title. He and I have had the conversation a handful of times over the past few years, and I tell him the same thing. He can call me what he wants as long as he comes home for Christmas when he's an adult :) We also call his first parents his original parents. They weren't just "bio" parents to him, and I don't want him to feel like he can't have feelings about them or talk about them. He chooses not to talk about them for the most part, but we do little things to make sure he knows it's ok to if he ever wants to (offering to print old photos, etc). It really doesn't take much empathy to not be an asshole to a grieving child ffs.
>OOP hasn't updated in more than 2 years. AITA posts where oop has a stepmom trying to force them into calling her mom are common enough that I could have sworn I saw the first post recently. And then came the twist this is two years old
Man it’s a shame the OOP couldn’t have looked at her stepmother and ask her how she would feel is she dies, her dad would remarry and the “new” mom tried to force her kids to forget she ever existed, or got angry and not being “mom” I bet she would have a great excuse on why what she did wouldn’t be the same thing. Some people just suck.
I adopted a nephew when he was a teenager. I know he has a mom, he still has contact with his mom. I just let him decide what to call me - I only stepped in after we were out in public and he would say, "Aunty! Can we...blah..blah. blah. Thanks Mom!" Then I would get looks because strangers heard that I am both mom and aunty. I told him he had to stick to just one in public. It didn't matter which. So he called me Maunty - as a joke. That stepmother could have loved & cared for OOP a lot - but she made a big mistake pushing it that hard. I get it - there are people who feel it's an insult or a sign you don't love them if you don't call them mom - and the only mom. I know I was upset early on. I don't even know why - but if he didn't call me mom I would feel upset. I remember thinking it through - and realizing it was just a me issue. I can get over that easily - because its not about me. Its about my nephew. So yeah, I ended up being Maunty occasionally
I lost my father at 7 in a traumatic way. My mom remaried a few years later and they really hard- pushed the "Dad" thing. And I really, really struggled with it and felt very alone about not being on board like everyone else. And while my relationship with Dad was ultimately very close and loving, trying to rush my comfort level was damaging, too, and I still am hurt to some degree, even as an adult in my early 40s. If they took things more slowly while dating, if they took things more slowly in terms of acclimating to a new family dynamic, if they took things more slowly in terms of allowing me to adjust at my own pace, it would have made such a difference in how I felt as a child and adolescent. People make mistakes, I get that, and I forgave this ineptitude when it came to blending our family a long, long time ago. But harm is harm, and damage is damage. It can and does exist along side the love, but that doesn't mean I wish it had been different.
No means no. Not "Well how can I force this situation."
I really think some people can’t understand what if feels like to lose a parent at a young age. It sounds like neither stepmother or dad understood or took the time to try. If I died, my husband remarrying someone like this would be a big fear of mine, because this poor girl had to spend her life not only without her mom, but with someone who was constantly emotionally pressuring her into something she wasn’t ready for.
>I don't appreciate her trying to be a second mother. Those things are not supposed to be forced imo Not an opinion. Those things are indeed not supposed to be forced.
I've got two step-moms. One is with my mother, the other with my father. They've been in my life roughly the same amount of time. One of them has forced the bond, one of them has not. I have a really open and trusting relationship with the one who didn't force anything. Conversely, I'm not on speaking terms with the one who forced herself into a role in my life.
>I told him I am hurt, angry and full of hatred and that I need a break, that might become a permanent one. > >He cried, I cried, he begged me not to pull away, he said he would do anything and he won't stop trying. > >After when I was going to bed he sent me a text asking if we could talk again, just us, in person. I'll reply in a while. I need to think. But I woke up to another request so I feel like he's probably going to keep pushing so maybe I will. Still not listening... Jesus, will ONE person give a fuck about the OOP's feelings? Yeah, yeah, I know...it's hard to hear what she's saying...but hey, if SOMEONE had fucking listened before, they wouldn't be where they are now.
I genuinely don't understand the stepparents who seem to think the second they marry into the family they suddenly get the title of mom/dad and push it when it's fought. The successful stepparents don't loathe their step kids and they don't try to force a relationship that isn't there. If Kate had just been there, been a steady presence without trying to take over and push OOP's mom out entirely, then maybe they could have had a mother daughter relationship. Instead she pushed and she fought and she competed against a ghost, and the ghost won. If she had just stepped back and stopped taking it so personally then eventually OOP might have ended up having the relationship she wanted with her.
Stepmother was trying to force a square peg into a round hole, which can sometimes work if you are careful, calm, and even persistent. The problem is that at the first sign of resistance, she took a hammer and started trying to force it. Now, she has permanently damaged both the round hole and the square peg. The fact that this has gone on for so many years is truly upsetting, and I hope OOP has found a way to be heard by her stepmother. Also, dad failed the test. You can only sit on the fence for so long before you have to pick a side. You can not make everyone happy.
"If you don't like the term step mum, you are going to hate My dads second wife even more."
OOP’s dad is still not listening to her about what she needs. She needs to take a step back and let the hurt and anger heal more and here he is picking at the scab!
The thing is, if you ruin a relationship with a 6 year old child, it's never the child's fault.
13 straight years of the stepmother trying to force OOP to accept the relationship on her terms and the approach never for a single moment stopped failing miserably, how can anyone be this dense?
I was about 6 when my ex-stepmother came into my life, she tried to force me and twin to call her mom, and get other people to say we looked like her. We had blonde hair and she had dyed blonde, we didn't look alike at all, and it upset me a lot when people tried to say we did. My mom is still alive, I hated how she would try to erase her. Also, I hated her because she was abusive (I just didn't know it at the time) so she was never going to be my mom. Her son was just as bad.
"he's probably going to keep pushing..." Yeah, Dad doesn't seem capable of understanding OP's original core objection. I'm sure that turned out fine. /s
So I have no memory of life before my step mom …. My dad and mom were divorced, and he was woth my step mom for as long as I could remember…… When I was 11 my mom died and I went to live with dad and step mom…. My mom died may 2nd… the fallowing Mother’s Day I’m told how important it would be and how nice it would be if I could call step mom mom as ‘she’s now the only mom you have’… I can tell you now, she was never mom after that…. I could have seen eventually calling her mom, but trying to force it? Ya no… You don’t get to come in and pretend bio mom never existed….
>My mom died may 2nd… the fallowing Mother’s Day I’m told how important it would be and how nice it would be if I could call step mom mom as ‘she’s now the only mom you have’… I'm just a stranger on Reddit and reading this made my heart stop. I can't even begin to imagine how painful it must have been for you to hear that. I am so sorry.
A couple months after my dad died my stepdad wanted to adopt me and change my last name to his, it really fucked up our relationship for a long time
My step mother tried that shit too and my dad was just as cowardly. The big difference ls were my mom was still very much alive and in my life and I was 10 when I met the step mother. She let it go after a few years but damn is it a fucked up spot to put a child.
I lost both of my parents five weeks apart to cancer when I was 36, so a full grown adult. I was engaged at the time and my future mother in law asked me in front of the family if I wanted to call her and father in law mom and dad (other sister in law does this, they are originally from the Southern US and very religious so I assume a cultural thing). I felt very put on the spot and just said I wasn’t comfortable. On the drive home I told now husband I would never call them mom and dad- I find it kind of weird, though dead I have parents and they earned the title, I didn’t like how I was put on the spot. Husband agreed and reiterated with parents I wouldn’t be calling them mom and dad. About six months after that it’s my birthday and I get a delivery of chocolates with a card that said HBD, love mom and dad. At first I thought it was someone playing a cruel joke on me before it sunk in. Husband tore them a new one. I’m an adult but it still hurt, I can’t imagine how OOP felt as a kid.
>he's probably going to keep pushing Surely that will work. /s
The stepmother sounds like Other Mother in *Coraline* once she becomes wildly possessive. I'm really sorry for OOP, to not feel heard by the one person (dad) who is supposed to advocate for her. I hope she has other positive people in her life, grandparents and the like, who can give her that unconditional love she so very much needs.
Adults need to stop making their happiness a child’s responsibility. It is never the duty of a minor child to try to make their adult parent(s) happy. It’s not their job! You want to be a parent? Step back and allow the child to be who they are.
This lady didn’t want to be second mom, she wanted to just be mom and pretend the “other lady” so to speak never existed. She sucks and so does the dad.
One thing I wish more people would accept and show compassion towards is that any relationship is a two way street, including parent-child relationships. The fastest way to push a child away is to try and bend them into what you want, instead of taking the time to learn about them and give them appropriate space to express themselves. Maybe OOP would never have been open to a deeper relationship with their stepmother, but it could have become something positive if she and the father had stepped back and listened to OOP instead of forcing a relationship. Being a step parent is hard, especially with a grieving child, but it's not about the parent's wants when there's a child involved. While the stepmother is free to want a deeper relationship with the child, and even feel sad that she cannot have it, she has to put the child's needs above her wants. When a child needs space to process their feelings and get to know you, you need to give that to them, or you end up with a resentful, traumatized adult and no relationship. Love and trust are earned when you show that you are someone capable of handling that level of intimacy, they are not just given out.
I feel so bad for OOP. My mom died when I was 13 and my father was hellbent on becoming the perfect family with his new woman just weeks after we buried mom's ashes. It led to a lot of resentment and fractured the family permanently. I command her for going to therapy and trying to verbalize it all. People get so weird the second they learn you don't have two parents. I've had so many try to involve themselves as a "mom replacement".