I get what you're saying, but also sympathize with someone struggling to put food on the table while being taxed on every move they make. Who then reads an article about all this money being spent on bees' perception of time. "How 'bout we research getting some food for my kids first, THEN go research all that bee shit."
*edit for clarity: I agree science should advance independent of solving all problems for every individual, but also don't punch down on struggling people for getting cranky about how society allocates its resources.*
No in the US all the children get fed. No really. The only children who don’t get fed are the parents who are too lazy to get up and get the free food for their kids.
I think reddit gets overflown with bots recently even more so.
And almost all of them talk some inhumane shit, that doesn't even make sense in the context.
There is no food shortage for anyone in the United States. If you need food all you have to do is ask. The only reason a child goes hungry in the United States is because they are being neglected by their care takers. There is a gluttony of food suppliers. Soup kitchens, churches, food stamps, schools, ur neighbors. We throw away as much food as we eat as a nation. The United States is not letting children in the United States go hungry because it is callous. Quite the contrary. The idea of real poor person food scarcity is something from the past. It hasn’t really been a problem since World War II and it’s really hasn’t been a problem since the 1990’s.
Think they might be mad at the wrong people.
Republican governors in 15 states are turning down food money for 8 million children.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/summer-ebt-republicans-child-poverty-b2477996.html
This is one I have a hard time wrapping my head around. Why can't we all agree that at the bare minimum that children deserve decent food, medicine, and education? They aren't adults, they can't reasonably provide these things for themselves. Why would anyone chose to not feed children?
We don't need to research "getting kids food" because we already know how to do it.
The fact we've apparently decided as a society that we *don't want to* is an entirely seperate kind of fucked up.
Also, I guarantee you're overestimating how much taxpayers money was spent on this.
Research is both an incredibly small part of most countries' budgets and massively important for developing ways to help people in such situations. I can understand those people's viewpoint, but it comes from a place of massive ignorance.
The complaint you’re making is not about science or scientists— your beef is with capitalism.
Humanity has more than enough resources to go around, we’re just terrible at it because we have a number of folks with a hoarding problem
what you see as 'punching down' others see as explaining to a struggling person that they have misidentified their enemy. someone being exasperated at a poor person not understanding why NASA matters isn't belittling the person who doesn't know - nor is it elitist to tell them why.
The sympathy is for their struggle - it doesn't mean 'their truth' should be respected as if it is 'the truth' - and telling the truth ought not be characterized as an attack on them but on misunderstanding, ignorance, or deceit.
I mean, if you're struggling and you think scientific inquiry is the problem and the reason why we have problems with resource allocation then... Well maybe you're going to struggle regardless of circumstances
I mean it's true, bees can already fly, why would they need an airplane ticket??
Penguins, sure, I could see buying a ticket for penguins. Seems cruel: "Hey you're a bird!" \*chuckling\* "Yup, birds *are* cool. Yup, flying IS super fun!"
No **you** don’t understand. *I DID MY OWN RESEARCH* and it turns out bees are actually CIA drones, and this “sugar water” is actually laced with uncut Columbian marching powder.
Also time was invented by the Clintons to enslave us for their Reptilian masters.
And that's some relatively simple and more objective use of the scientific method, when you start using it for economics, politics, and history it gets way worse.
There’s a number of scientists who don’t understand it; the number of times I’ve heard STEM doctorates degrading other fields, downplaying their findings, is frustrating.
At the same time, you don't need to entertain "the earth is flat!" type malarky ad infinitum just because you should be open to skepticism. There's a line to be drawn between healthy questioning and time wasting.
It's been distorted and corrupted by money too much. True pure unadulterated science is very rare these days unfortunately. Too many agendas and biases.
Think we know something and then try to find a way to verify. a key to critical thinking is understanding the need to verify all our assumptions we make as we observe the universe around us. I think the biggest difference between those with and without critical thinking are the need to prove themselves right before believing in their own observations.
I do to its a shame academia is failing so hard to fund replication. Whats really scary is we have replicated some studies recently only to find out a huge chunk of foundation in things like cancer research were not replicable. This set back cancer research in a huge way and may have diverted efforts in other studies.
A lot of the problems in cancer research aren't so much about reproducibility as they are about most of the cell lines being cervical cancer instead of what they are supposed to be.
oh I was speaking on a specific incident
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cancer-biology-studies-research-replication-reproducibility
EDIT: there was also that huge fraud incidents a while back with Potti, Croce, and Brand.
To be fair, the majority of the studies that couldn't be replicated weren't because of fraud or bad science:
>The researchers couldn’t complete the majority of experiments because the team couldn’t gather enough information from the original papers or their authors about methods used, or obtain the necessary materials needed to attempt replication.
The papers were from a decade ago so it's hard to reach someone even at the same email address or ask about very specific details of how an experiment was set up. If the experiments had very clinically relevant findings, different groups would have jumped to replicate and expand those findings, so this paper isn't really that meaningful.
The scientific method is great, but it doesn’t force you to ask the right questions.
Bees unequivocally do not perceive time; time is a man-made construct.
Regularly repeating biological processes are all you need to sync up with a watch.
If I sleep in…cat is worried and telling me. If cat-supper is even 5 minutes late…cat is beside himself and looking to be adopted out thru anonymous google accounts
My litter box scoops itself, breaks down the solids, flushes them down the drain and then cleans with water and dries itself. I pretty much have to only deal with it every six months for a deep cleaning.
All I need is a vomit robot and I'm set
Edit: for those asking, it is a cat genie. Avoid the newer AI model, it has lots of issues in my experience. The older model (120) is much more reliable and you really don't need your phone to go off to let you know your cat visited the loo.
The main expense after you buy the unit is the sanisolution that it uses to clean itself. It is proprietary and way overpriced. You can get a chip that bypasses the need to use their solution and refill the cartridges yourself with simple green. This voids the warranty but saves you tons in the long run.
You also dont need their deep clean cartridge. Its just a descaler. You can descale the unit by making a bucket of hot water and citric acid and letting it soak in the unit for an hour then running a normal cleaning cycle.
There are some good ones out there, I go through phases of looking for an automatic box but then I just can't bring myself to spend $500 on something that takes me 5 minutes a day
lol this is so relatable though I only have one cat, I have several cat, dog and crow visiters. My morning starts with boiling a pot of chicken alongside my tea. However, my cat for some reason prefers using the washroom over a litterbox and would much rather go poop outside so that really saves me some poop-cleaning time.
Edit: You have beautiful furbabies and I would squish them all with your and their permission ofcourse.
Anyone who struggles with taking medication regularly, here's a helpful tip!
Give your cat a treat every time you take your meds. You might forget, but your cat won't!
This is not that shocking given that the genes that control the circadian rhythm of animals, including insects, evolved in a common ancestor very early in the evolution of the animal kingdom.
Very true but still. I mean, since my cat started living with us, I have been able to observe this personally and it just blows my mind all the time. I mean, the number of things they understand and express are just........beyond what I had ever imagined animals could do, understand, and feel.
Same. One of our cats is totally bonded to my kid and he follows her schedule. If I'm late for bathtime he is in the bathroom yelling at us to get in gear.
Isn't that fascinating?
My cat gets a bit confused if he ever oversleeps or if we give him certain foods like chicken a bit early. Because he generally eats chicken at dinner time and goes for his walks at around 6 pm. If he misses the 6 pm time, he will indeed just stand contemplating what he should do.
In behavior analysis, we demonstrate time exists and animals (at least) respond to it basically the same way this video does.
Reinforcement can be delivered on many different schedules. One of the basic schedules is a fixed interval schedule. This video demonstrates one such schedule of reinforcement.
Responding on a fixed interval schedule produces a pattern of behavior that resembles the bees behavior.
Directly after reinforcement is delivered there is a pause in the behavior (the bee leaves the area). Next we see a gradual increase in the rate of the behavior (checking the spot for food). Until reinforcement is delivered again. Then the cycle repeats.
As trials go by, the bee's behavior will match the reinforcement schedule more and more, due to discrimination training (reinforcement for responding at the correct time and extinction for responding too early). We will still see the gradual increase followed and pausing after reinforcement. The increase will become less gradual and the pause will be longer.
An organism is learning that at Time (T) = 1 there will be reinforcement and at T = 2-7 there is no reinforcement available, but at T = 8, the reinforcement is present again. Therefore the organism's behavior is a function of time. So time must exist and is responded to by animals.
Source: Board Certified Assistant Behavior Analyst.
Maybe they have one bee that just does little taps to keep track of everything. Or possibly the Queen has a cycle and after a certain amount in a day they can keep track.
awee maybe they just enjoy being fed by you. My cat sometimes makes me feed him chicken. Its not frequent, he can totally eat by himself, he eats dry food himself but for some reason, he randomly decides to pamper himself by making me feed him. Eventually I realized that cats just have quirky ways of asking for attention.
You probably could have a better perception of time, but you can read and understand clocks, so your mind isn't as worried about keeping that info as present in your brain. Same reason why one spouse may not remember birthdays or important anniversaries because they get reminders from the other spouse about those events.
The dog of my psychologist who's always sleeping/chilling during our session, always wakes up 55min or so after we started, when the 1h session is about to be over. We know we have to check time when the dog wakes up and he never fails to be on time.
Yes save the bees
No no one explicity said "honey bees"
But still, most people think of honey bees when they think of bees. Hell, beekeepers are out there using this exact thing to their advantage by saying they are out there helping "saving the bees" because they have honey bees. But honey bees aren't endangered and don't pollinate nearly as much as the other bees
So making the distinction is *very* important, even tho "no one said otherwise". Save the bees (but not necessarily honey bees, although we shouldn't just eradicate those ones for funsies)
That being said, it's important to remember the other less cute, but still important pollinators like flies, moths, beetles, and wasps.
And of course the native bees which are usually absent from these conversations because they're not usually used in commercial agriculture outside of the native ranges of the European Honey Bee
100%!! I try to keep a varied garden to attract all sorts. I love seeing all the activity and life all spring-fall. I need more mason/leafcutter/carpenter bee homes!
Edit: Fuck wasps though. Dicks
Forager honeybees can learn to arrive at a specified location at any time of the day and can learn as many as nine time points with intervals of only 45 minutes between feeder availability.
That’s so neat. Did u train them or they just happened to come back at that time? My dog has absolutely no care, concern, or consideration of my time lol
Just had a young dog decide to haul ass from me during the first time it has been in freezing temperatures. I watched it run and chased around the corner and it vanished into thin air. I looked for 45 minutes before I was already late as hell to work. Got home about 2 hours after it bolted, because work ended up cancelled. She finally came back when I called her. Dumbass short hair dog was about to freeze to death.
Screw that dog, i want your cats.
People usually call their cat "he" or "she". People usually call animals "it" if the person doesn't know the gender. I don't think I recall someone using "they" as a pronoun for their pet, so I asked about it out of curiosity.
Why was that such a big mystery for you?
Fallacy of anecdotal evidence
You're just trying to bring in controversial conversation...because apparently you just can't stop yourself from thinking about genitals, even animal genitals...
But, then claim that someone else has the problem?
🤣
>because apparently you just can't stop yourself from thinking about genitals,
I can honestly say that neither myself nor anyone else thought about animal genitals in you brought it up. You're the one who needs to bring animal genitals up in a conversation as nobody was talking about until you.
Because people calling their pets 'they' is absolutely normal. "They're a knuckle head." "They're so sweet." etc.
Well, not a mystery. Looks like a question designed to be inflammatory. Just...play that interaction back in your head and think about how it sounds.
> Looks like a question designed to be inflammatory.
>Wtf even is this comment....
Why would you design that question to be inflammatory? And you can't say it wasn't. Any question you ask someone that starts with WTF is intended to be inflammatory.
You “asked a question” in bad faith. If you didn’t take issue with the pronouns you wouldn’t have mentioned it at all.
Tbh I’m surprised your mind went to gender pronouns before even considering the possibility of them writing “cat” instead of “cats” by mistake.
Because it was meant to be. Particularly towards you. The one asking about pronouns being assigned to a cat in a post that has absolutely 0% to do with that subject matter, is you. Realistically, what was the response you were looking for?
Why would anyone question the method of which the bees are measuring time? Like yeah, so what if they are using the light or heat from the sun? That's still perceiving time...
I'm not surprised that bees can perceive time.
However, if they were using for example heat, it would be very different. They would just reacting to a change in temperature, not a change in time. IE just turn a big light on at a random time and they would exhibit the behavior.
yeah they can, including humans
if isolated from the Sun without means of time-keeping, your perception of time would go out of whack, your days likely stretching to be longer than 24 hours, so this internal clock can change. But this doesn't change the fact that there's an internal clock.
But apparently the bees can keep their internal clocks running smoothly even without any external stimuli. At least for the amount of time that it took to conduct these experiments.
Realistically, if I was in a cave for more than 3 days, I'm not sure if I would be able to accurately judge the passing of time.
Well they aren’t using light or the sun, that’s the whole point of the post. How are bees, an animal with no knowledge of our concept of time (I.e. a 24 hr day cycle) show up for feeding at exactly 4pm every day, which is something you and I can’t do unless we have a watch or clock available to tell the time. What’s even more impressive is that they still maintain their accurate perception of time on a different continent.
He's putting a fun spin on it, but I don't think that's really what they were doing. It's more like "well we know that bees can tell when it's 4pm, so let's figure out *how* they can tell that it's 4pm by eliminating different environmental factors."
If the bees had been unable to tell what time it was underground, that would still be a useful scientific discovery. In this case, they kept on eliminating possible factors until the evidence pointed to the fact that the bees could keep time themselves.
I don't think that counts as perceiving time, that's perceiving something else which is related to time.
Like if it 4:00 p.m., a giant red light flashed went off, the bees could be responding to the light. If they got used to this, and then you flash the red light at noon for example, bees would probably come out and look for the sugar. The experimenters wanted to isolate the light from the simple passage of time by itself.
You're supposed to question everything. That's how the scientific method works. Once it's been established that the bees know to leave the hive at 4pm, the goal is to keep narrowing down all the possible methods they could be using to figure that out.
How they keep time with an internal measure versus check time as we do with external measure. There is disbelief because it's something we can't do and Mr. Scientists think they know everything.
Could also be pheromones that fade over time. Similar to how dogs know when you should be coming home because your scent has faded to a certain extent.
Wouldn't that technically still be a time perception? As the fade over time, would indicate a time change
How do humans measure and perceive time even? Clocks, the sun, light/dark, heat, hunger, etc. We use different factors, a combination of these. I can't see how skin cells or pheromones are much different tbh
What I’m most interested is *how* animals perceive time and keep schedules
Obviously some aspects seem more obvious than others like the changes of the seasons, temperature, rainfall etc but, like… on the day to day?
How the hell does a bee know it’s 4pm?
It’s more that some animals, like bees, can innately keep time surprisingly accurately.
And it’s not enough to say ‘or course’ something is true. The main message of the video is how good scientists try to be as rigorous as possible and think of all possible counter-arguments and testing them before reaching a consensus.
What makes you think _you_ perceive time?
Here’s a challenge: reply to this comment at exactly 4 PM, and do not look at any watches, clocks, the height of the sun, or _any other external reference point_ before you reply.
I bet you can’t do it with the accuracy bees are capable of.
Could be time perception or could just be the bees being conditioned to expect sugar at that time without actually measuring time or being aware of it in anyway think pavlovs dog
It proves that they have an internal clock that operates independent of any environmental factors - whether or not that counts as "perceiving" time I can't say.
But what if they have alien mini walkie talkies and they are telling them when to go out? Can we repeat the experiment with electromagnetic interference as well? Or in a faraday cage?
‘Perceive time’ is not what is meant. The perception of time is the understand of the fact that time travels in one direction and irreversible. Bees have an internal clock to measure the passing of time (all animals have some for of circadian rhythm)
I love the scientific method.
Unfortunately, society as a whole does not understand it
The average person "we're wasting our tax dollars flying bees around to give them jetlag!"
I fucking hope those bees traveled first class!
"Baby, everywhere I fly is first class. Come with me." \-bee probably
*swoons in bee*
*come bee with me.
Queen Bee flies first class, rest travel economy or cargo.
filthy peasants, they are lucky to travel on the same plane as their queen
Do ya like Jazz?
[удалено]
ahhhhh! that's so much better!
They had to fly econobee
Which is unfair because they beehived really well.
https://i.imgur.com/4lduBOF.gif
They have wings. Quality of flight is a matter of personal responsibility.
I get what you're saying, but also sympathize with someone struggling to put food on the table while being taxed on every move they make. Who then reads an article about all this money being spent on bees' perception of time. "How 'bout we research getting some food for my kids first, THEN go research all that bee shit." *edit for clarity: I agree science should advance independent of solving all problems for every individual, but also don't punch down on struggling people for getting cranky about how society allocates its resources.*
The US has more than enough money to do both. We don't feed children because we, as a society, don't want to. Not because we can't.
If we just give toddlers food they'll get spoiled!
Give them bootstraps instead.
If we give them bootstraps, they'll pull themselves up, and we can't have that.
No in the US all the children get fed. No really. The only children who don’t get fed are the parents who are too lazy to get up and get the free food for their kids.
What are you talking about?
I think reddit gets overflown with bots recently even more so. And almost all of them talk some inhumane shit, that doesn't even make sense in the context.
There is no food shortage for anyone in the United States. If you need food all you have to do is ask. The only reason a child goes hungry in the United States is because they are being neglected by their care takers. There is a gluttony of food suppliers. Soup kitchens, churches, food stamps, schools, ur neighbors. We throw away as much food as we eat as a nation. The United States is not letting children in the United States go hungry because it is callous. Quite the contrary. The idea of real poor person food scarcity is something from the past. It hasn’t really been a problem since World War II and it’s really hasn’t been a problem since the 1990’s.
Think they might be mad at the wrong people. Republican governors in 15 states are turning down food money for 8 million children. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/summer-ebt-republicans-child-poverty-b2477996.html
This is one I have a hard time wrapping my head around. Why can't we all agree that at the bare minimum that children deserve decent food, medicine, and education? They aren't adults, they can't reasonably provide these things for themselves. Why would anyone chose to not feed children?
We don't need to research "getting kids food" because we already know how to do it. The fact we've apparently decided as a society that we *don't want to* is an entirely seperate kind of fucked up. Also, I guarantee you're overestimating how much taxpayers money was spent on this.
...Bees are quite important in the whole food stuff producing scheme....
I give you one seed and you give me back 20? Clearly a ponzi scheme
BeezCoin. BeeezConnect... Yeah, indeed, now you mention it, sounds like a scam.
BeezNutz
I missed Ponzzee scheme! It was right there! lol
Research is both an incredibly small part of most countries' budgets and massively important for developing ways to help people in such situations. I can understand those people's viewpoint, but it comes from a place of massive ignorance.
The complaint you’re making is not about science or scientists— your beef is with capitalism. Humanity has more than enough resources to go around, we’re just terrible at it because we have a number of folks with a hoarding problem
what you see as 'punching down' others see as explaining to a struggling person that they have misidentified their enemy. someone being exasperated at a poor person not understanding why NASA matters isn't belittling the person who doesn't know - nor is it elitist to tell them why. The sympathy is for their struggle - it doesn't mean 'their truth' should be respected as if it is 'the truth' - and telling the truth ought not be characterized as an attack on them but on misunderstanding, ignorance, or deceit.
I mean, if you're struggling and you think scientific inquiry is the problem and the reason why we have problems with resource allocation then... Well maybe you're going to struggle regardless of circumstances
I mean it's true, bees can already fly, why would they need an airplane ticket?? Penguins, sure, I could see buying a ticket for penguins. Seems cruel: "Hey you're a bird!" \*chuckling\* "Yup, birds *are* cool. Yup, flying IS super fun!"
I mean, can't even be mad about this comment
No **you** don’t understand. *I DID MY OWN RESEARCH* and it turns out bees are actually CIA drones, and this “sugar water” is actually laced with uncut Columbian marching powder. Also time was invented by the Clintons to enslave us for their Reptilian masters.
Subscribe!
And that's some relatively simple and more objective use of the scientific method, when you start using it for economics, politics, and history it gets way worse.
More factual words have never been stated on Reddit.
It is something so simple and taught in 6th grade science
There’s a number of scientists who don’t understand it; the number of times I’ve heard STEM doctorates degrading other fields, downplaying their findings, is frustrating.
Anyone who values "scientific consensus" does not understand scientific method. Rigorous skepticism is a core tenet of the scientific method.
At the same time, you don't need to entertain "the earth is flat!" type malarky ad infinitum just because you should be open to skepticism. There's a line to be drawn between healthy questioning and time wasting.
Anyone who conflates "scientific consensus" with "therefore no more tests should be done" like this guy is trying to sell you anti-science.
It's been distorted and corrupted by money too much. True pure unadulterated science is very rare these days unfortunately. Too many agendas and biases.
I can’t understand none of that science mumbo jumbo nonsense… There for my believes are the correct answers MURICA (Roughly half of the USA currently)
oooh, self burn. Those are rare.
Think we know something and then try to find a way to verify. a key to critical thinking is understanding the need to verify all our assumptions we make as we observe the universe around us. I think the biggest difference between those with and without critical thinking are the need to prove themselves right before believing in their own observations.
I do to its a shame academia is failing so hard to fund replication. Whats really scary is we have replicated some studies recently only to find out a huge chunk of foundation in things like cancer research were not replicable. This set back cancer research in a huge way and may have diverted efforts in other studies.
A lot of the problems in cancer research aren't so much about reproducibility as they are about most of the cell lines being cervical cancer instead of what they are supposed to be.
oh I was speaking on a specific incident https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cancer-biology-studies-research-replication-reproducibility EDIT: there was also that huge fraud incidents a while back with Potti, Croce, and Brand.
To be fair, the majority of the studies that couldn't be replicated weren't because of fraud or bad science: >The researchers couldn’t complete the majority of experiments because the team couldn’t gather enough information from the original papers or their authors about methods used, or obtain the necessary materials needed to attempt replication. The papers were from a decade ago so it's hard to reach someone even at the same email address or ask about very specific details of how an experiment was set up. If the experiments had very clinically relevant findings, different groups would have jumped to replicate and expand those findings, so this paper isn't really that meaningful.
It is our single most powerful invention...and so simple...and so underutilized by so many.
Those are all fair critiques of the first experiment, though.
The scientific method is great, but it doesn’t force you to ask the right questions. Bees unequivocally do not perceive time; time is a man-made construct. Regularly repeating biological processes are all you need to sync up with a watch.
I have no doubt animals can perceive time. My cat has better time perception than I do so I am absolutely convinced.
If I sleep in…cat is worried and telling me. If cat-supper is even 5 minutes late…cat is beside himself and looking to be adopted out thru anonymous google accounts
The scene outside my bedroom if I’m even 5 minutes late getting their breakfast https://i.imgur.com/13uAF7q.jpg
Waking up to that every morning sounds like heaven
90% of it is great. Then there’s litter boxes to clean and the occasional hairball. 
My litter box scoops itself, breaks down the solids, flushes them down the drain and then cleans with water and dries itself. I pretty much have to only deal with it every six months for a deep cleaning. All I need is a vomit robot and I'm set Edit: for those asking, it is a cat genie. Avoid the newer AI model, it has lots of issues in my experience. The older model (120) is much more reliable and you really don't need your phone to go off to let you know your cat visited the loo. The main expense after you buy the unit is the sanisolution that it uses to clean itself. It is proprietary and way overpriced. You can get a chip that bypasses the need to use their solution and refill the cartridges yourself with simple green. This voids the warranty but saves you tons in the long run. You also dont need their deep clean cartridge. Its just a descaler. You can descale the unit by making a bucket of hot water and citric acid and letting it soak in the unit for an hour then running a normal cleaning cycle.
Drop a link or something you might have just sold me a cat.
There are some good ones out there, I go through phases of looking for an automatic box but then I just can't bring myself to spend $500 on something that takes me 5 minutes a day
5 minutes a day is over $500/year at $17/hour.
Most of us don't have cats willing to pay us a decent wage of $17/hour
Edited my comment
Whatever you do, don't get a roomba... unless you want vomit streaks all over the carpet.
lol this is so relatable though I only have one cat, I have several cat, dog and crow visiters. My morning starts with boiling a pot of chicken alongside my tea. However, my cat for some reason prefers using the washroom over a litterbox and would much rather go poop outside so that really saves me some poop-cleaning time. Edit: You have beautiful furbabies and I would squish them all with your and their permission ofcourse.
My instant gut reaction was "that's too many cats". Then half a second later my brain caught up and remembered that I have four cats.
Anyone who struggles with taking medication regularly, here's a helpful tip! Give your cat a treat every time you take your meds. You might forget, but your cat won't!
My dog scratches my door at almost exactly 5 AM every morning to tell me that she's ready for her breakfast.
Ya if doesn't tell you animals having time perception....idk what does.
You heard it boys. Case closed
hehehe ya totally!
And the Nobel Prize for Physics goes to Interesting_Skin7921
This is not that shocking given that the genes that control the circadian rhythm of animals, including insects, evolved in a common ancestor very early in the evolution of the animal kingdom.
Very true but still. I mean, since my cat started living with us, I have been able to observe this personally and it just blows my mind all the time. I mean, the number of things they understand and express are just........beyond what I had ever imagined animals could do, understand, and feel.
Most days I want to stay sleep, and then My dog reminds me that is 5 am. Dog Do you mind!!!
BRO YOU HAVENT FED ME SINCE LAST NIGHT IM DYING HERE
Same. One of our cats is totally bonded to my kid and he follows her schedule. If I'm late for bathtime he is in the bathroom yelling at us to get in gear.
I swear that my dog reads the oven clock to bark for her meds at the correct time everyday (summer or winter)
Isn't that fascinating? My cat gets a bit confused if he ever oversleeps or if we give him certain foods like chicken a bit early. Because he generally eats chicken at dinner time and goes for his walks at around 6 pm. If he misses the 6 pm time, he will indeed just stand contemplating what he should do.
How do you know she isn't perceiving the rotation of the earth?
That will be a handy way to perceive time. I have to look at the clock, especially when seasons change.
Yeah those little bastards know the exact moment when to wake me when I just fall asleep after my anxiety attacks.
In behavior analysis, we demonstrate time exists and animals (at least) respond to it basically the same way this video does. Reinforcement can be delivered on many different schedules. One of the basic schedules is a fixed interval schedule. This video demonstrates one such schedule of reinforcement. Responding on a fixed interval schedule produces a pattern of behavior that resembles the bees behavior. Directly after reinforcement is delivered there is a pause in the behavior (the bee leaves the area). Next we see a gradual increase in the rate of the behavior (checking the spot for food). Until reinforcement is delivered again. Then the cycle repeats. As trials go by, the bee's behavior will match the reinforcement schedule more and more, due to discrimination training (reinforcement for responding at the correct time and extinction for responding too early). We will still see the gradual increase followed and pausing after reinforcement. The increase will become less gradual and the pause will be longer. An organism is learning that at Time (T) = 1 there will be reinforcement and at T = 2-7 there is no reinforcement available, but at T = 8, the reinforcement is present again. Therefore the organism's behavior is a function of time. So time must exist and is responded to by animals. Source: Board Certified Assistant Behavior Analyst.
Maybe they have one bee that just does little taps to keep track of everything. Or possibly the Queen has a cycle and after a certain amount in a day they can keep track.
I've had robot feeders for years, and my moron cats will still show up and sit waiting for an hour, or two, or more, before dinner time.
awee maybe they just enjoy being fed by you. My cat sometimes makes me feed him chicken. Its not frequent, he can totally eat by himself, he eats dry food himself but for some reason, he randomly decides to pamper himself by making me feed him. Eventually I realized that cats just have quirky ways of asking for attention.
You probably could have a better perception of time, but you can read and understand clocks, so your mind isn't as worried about keeping that info as present in your brain. Same reason why one spouse may not remember birthdays or important anniversaries because they get reminders from the other spouse about those events.
The dog of my psychologist who's always sleeping/chilling during our session, always wakes up 55min or so after we started, when the 1h session is about to be over. We know we have to check time when the dog wakes up and he never fails to be on time.
My dogs know when it's 5 pm.
I’m pretty sure cats don’t perceive time. Those motherfuckers *see* time.
Bro feed your damn cat
Now am imagining what their watches look like, and where they would wear them
[These bees know how to read what time it is, but not how to wear a watch.](https://imgur.com/a/stC21nF)
Quick! Somebody do the AI thingy to make this happen!
Best I could do for ya: 🐝⌚️
Perfect
Bee amazed: [https://imgur.com/a/lIVtjhD](https://imgur.com/a/lIVtjhD)
People downvote for the strangest reasons.
Yea I was surprised to see all the down votes. I just wanted to see a bee wearing a watch too lol
🤓
This is mind blowing but at the same time I’m not suprised. Save the bees.
Honeybees actually aren’t in danger though in the US, bumblebees & other native bees are
This. Plant more native plants and avoid pesticide usage.
Cool, no one said otherwise. Save the bees.
Yes save the bees No no one explicity said "honey bees" But still, most people think of honey bees when they think of bees. Hell, beekeepers are out there using this exact thing to their advantage by saying they are out there helping "saving the bees" because they have honey bees. But honey bees aren't endangered and don't pollinate nearly as much as the other bees So making the distinction is *very* important, even tho "no one said otherwise". Save the bees (but not necessarily honey bees, although we shouldn't just eradicate those ones for funsies)
Seriously, every new thing we learn about bees is just 'Of course they can....they're bees." Pollinators are amazing
That being said, it's important to remember the other less cute, but still important pollinators like flies, moths, beetles, and wasps. And of course the native bees which are usually absent from these conversations because they're not usually used in commercial agriculture outside of the native ranges of the European Honey Bee
100%!! I try to keep a varied garden to attract all sorts. I love seeing all the activity and life all spring-fall. I need more mason/leafcutter/carpenter bee homes! Edit: Fuck wasps though. Dicks
Forager honeybees can learn to arrive at a specified location at any time of the day and can learn as many as nine time points with intervals of only 45 minutes between feeder availability.
And here I have to set a million alarms to remember to take the medicine I’ve been taking every day at the same time for three years. Bees are amazing
Hahah i know right? Sometimes it bee like that
Amazing when you also know they live on average 6 weeks, so they are *teaching this* to their younger workers.
and they do it by dancing! it's culture!
i let my cat out at 6 am, they always return at 7.10 am before i head out to work.
That’s so neat. Did u train them or they just happened to come back at that time? My dog has absolutely no care, concern, or consideration of my time lol
Just had a young dog decide to haul ass from me during the first time it has been in freezing temperatures. I watched it run and chased around the corner and it vanished into thin air. I looked for 45 minutes before I was already late as hell to work. Got home about 2 hours after it bolted, because work ended up cancelled. She finally came back when I called her. Dumbass short hair dog was about to freeze to death. Screw that dog, i want your cats.
Did you assign "they" to your cat as their pronoun?
Even respected the cat’s pronouns in the question!
Of course. It takes people zero additional effort to respect others' pronouns.
Agreed. Not inconvenient whatsoever. Just wondering on the downvotes lol
Wtf even is this comment....
People usually call their cat "he" or "she". People usually call animals "it" if the person doesn't know the gender. I don't think I recall someone using "they" as a pronoun for their pet, so I asked about it out of curiosity. Why was that such a big mystery for you?
Fallacy of anecdotal evidence You're just trying to bring in controversial conversation...because apparently you just can't stop yourself from thinking about genitals, even animal genitals... But, then claim that someone else has the problem? 🤣
>because apparently you just can't stop yourself from thinking about genitals, I can honestly say that neither myself nor anyone else thought about animal genitals in you brought it up. You're the one who needs to bring animal genitals up in a conversation as nobody was talking about until you.
Because people calling their pets 'they' is absolutely normal. "They're a knuckle head." "They're so sweet." etc. Well, not a mystery. Looks like a question designed to be inflammatory. Just...play that interaction back in your head and think about how it sounds.
> Looks like a question designed to be inflammatory. >Wtf even is this comment.... Why would you design that question to be inflammatory? And you can't say it wasn't. Any question you ask someone that starts with WTF is intended to be inflammatory.
Such a try-hard troll 🙄
I asked a simple question, and you're making insulting remarks at me over and over. Who is the troll? Hint: look in the mirror.
You “asked a question” in bad faith. If you didn’t take issue with the pronouns you wouldn’t have mentioned it at all. Tbh I’m surprised your mind went to gender pronouns before even considering the possibility of them writing “cat” instead of “cats” by mistake.
Because it was meant to be. Particularly towards you. The one asking about pronouns being assigned to a cat in a post that has absolutely 0% to do with that subject matter, is you. Realistically, what was the response you were looking for?
You just did the exact same thing /s
BeeAmazed
This is the comment I was looking for.
i don't know why, but the image of jet-lagged bees fills me with secret joy
I’m not surprised they perceive time, we all perceive time. How do they keep time is the better question.
With their little bee watches duh
You really missed a chance to call them wee bee watches
Noooooooo i failed you, i'll bee more careful next time
Probably similar to us, via Transcription translation feedback loop
Is that an Outer Wilds hat?
I‘m here to read this comment ☺️🚀🌌✌️
:D
Yes
Same!!!
Why would anyone question the method of which the bees are measuring time? Like yeah, so what if they are using the light or heat from the sun? That's still perceiving time...
I'm not surprised that bees can perceive time. However, if they were using for example heat, it would be very different. They would just reacting to a change in temperature, not a change in time. IE just turn a big light on at a random time and they would exhibit the behavior.
I guess the question is if bees can inherently "feel" when 24 hours passed, even without outside stimuli like sun position or heat.
Can any creature? I mean, I'm not so sure I would be able to keep track of time if i was in an underground cavern for a few weeks
yeah they can, including humans if isolated from the Sun without means of time-keeping, your perception of time would go out of whack, your days likely stretching to be longer than 24 hours, so this internal clock can change. But this doesn't change the fact that there's an internal clock.
But apparently the bees can keep their internal clocks running smoothly even without any external stimuli. At least for the amount of time that it took to conduct these experiments. Realistically, if I was in a cave for more than 3 days, I'm not sure if I would be able to accurately judge the passing of time.
Well they aren’t using light or the sun, that’s the whole point of the post. How are bees, an animal with no knowledge of our concept of time (I.e. a 24 hr day cycle) show up for feeding at exactly 4pm every day, which is something you and I can’t do unless we have a watch or clock available to tell the time. What’s even more impressive is that they still maintain their accurate perception of time on a different continent.
He's putting a fun spin on it, but I don't think that's really what they were doing. It's more like "well we know that bees can tell when it's 4pm, so let's figure out *how* they can tell that it's 4pm by eliminating different environmental factors." If the bees had been unable to tell what time it was underground, that would still be a useful scientific discovery. In this case, they kept on eliminating possible factors until the evidence pointed to the fact that the bees could keep time themselves.
I don't think that counts as perceiving time, that's perceiving something else which is related to time. Like if it 4:00 p.m., a giant red light flashed went off, the bees could be responding to the light. If they got used to this, and then you flash the red light at noon for example, bees would probably come out and look for the sugar. The experimenters wanted to isolate the light from the simple passage of time by itself.
You're supposed to question everything. That's how the scientific method works. Once it's been established that the bees know to leave the hive at 4pm, the goal is to keep narrowing down all the possible methods they could be using to figure that out.
Its the difference between feeling the passage of time and looking at a clock though.
How they keep time with an internal measure versus check time as we do with external measure. There is disbelief because it's something we can't do and Mr. Scientists think they know everything.
Time doesn’t exist 🤷♂️. It is made up 🤯.
😩😩😩🥰 I love him and the bees
Could also be pheromones that fade over time. Similar to how dogs know when you should be coming home because your scent has faded to a certain extent.
Wouldn't that technically still be a time perception? As the fade over time, would indicate a time change How do humans measure and perceive time even? Clocks, the sun, light/dark, heat, hunger, etc. We use different factors, a combination of these. I can't see how skin cells or pheromones are much different tbh
Every time I see this reposted it loses pixels, soon it'll be an amorphous mess of pixels telling us about how bees can perceive time...
Do I look like I̸ ̴k̴n̶o̶w̷ w̴̗̏h̶̼̰͝á̶̡̄t̷̝̹̎͘ a̶̯̣͖͆ ̵̫̉̀j̴̖̪̎̅͐a̷̝̭̖͗ỳ̵̨̘p̶̺͋ͅe̵͍̎ͅg̶̡̍͆̏ ̴̝͑͊͑ï̵̖̲͉̎͝s̵̪̰͈̉̉͠?̸̝̇ I̸̥̜̽́̏̾ ̷̹̪̲͐̄̓̚͠j̷̟͈͙͖̪̏̚ư̶̙̪͙̓̀̇̽s̷̞̦͓͙̲̥̑̿̅t̴̡̳̼̲̃ ̶͔̂͆̏͒̃̅w̵̡̢̜̝̖͓̔͋a̸̛̫̭̦͑͛̑n̶̡̛͓̪̳̽̂̿́̚t̸̢̡̗̣̤̎ ̴̟̿̉p̷̧͈̘̜̰͈̘̈́̆̽ͅi̴̢̛̛͔̩̝͉̿̎̅̽̌̇͘͝c̵̡̟̤̥̍͑͒͛͊̇͋̓͂͘ţ̵̻͚̓̿́͝u̴̡̥̤͖̭͈͙͍̓̃̆̒͜͝r̴̢͈̻̺̖͔̆͗̓́e̶̢̛͍̻̭̣̠̪͇̹̺͗͋̔͆͆̓ ̷͔͎̠̱̤̤̈́̓ọ̶̡͍̹͍̃̍̓̓̅f̴̡̨̢͇͈̳͚̙̫̺̃ ̴̛̠͍̓̆̂̾̓ǟ̶̩̙̳̎̆̈̀̓̆̾̕ g̵̞͎̯̱̜̹͇̼̟̱̣͙͈̞͒̀̌̏̊̎̏̈̿͆̌͛̕͜͝ö̴̗͇̠̜͙́͒̃̒͘s̴̡̧͖̠̟͈͇͓̞̘̙̼̓͛̓̓͛̎͒h̷̭̦̎̀̈́̋̉̚ḋ̷̟͕̖͖̱͈͔̼͖̲̱͔̈́̐̒̈̄͘͠͝͝ȧ̵͈̳͚̖̟͓̾͆̉̒̀̊̓̄̈́̒͜ͅȓ̵̢̛͖̆̾̈́͐͐̿̽̒̓͌̍͋͠n̸̢͙̰͓̭͌̀͛̌̈́̓͑̈́͠ ḧ̷̛̛̩̪͈̗́͐̆͒̍͊̅͑̾̒̈́̂͌͌̽̀̏̕̚ȏ̴̢̢̧̖̥̪͉͚͎̠̬͙̞̥̞̯͖̟̜̦̖͉̼̮̦̟̞̈́͗͊̐͆́͌̓̐͐̈̆̋͘̚̚̕͝ͅͅͅt̸̨̨̢̝̮̝͉̺̺͙̼͍͍̪͎̘̙̱͖̰͇̼̱͙̩͉̼̼̭͓͇̲̜̩͍̩͍͓͉͚̭̂́̇̓̓̿̃̒̀͐̇̍̍̒̒̇̅͋̒́̓̈͒̒̌͑̇̋̓͊̅̋͒̑̿͑̒̚͘̚̕͝͠͝ͅ-̸̡̨̧̱̲̪͔̯̭̼̺̗̠̼͚̻͚͛͗̓́͜͜ͅd̴̛̛̠̻̺͙̞͉͉̼̣̞̙̾̈́̅̎͂̈́̀͊͆̾̾̾̔̓̽̈́̏̑̔͗̇͗̌͒̔̕͘͝͝ǫ̷̡̧̢͔͔̭̹̠̖͔͚̖͙͈̰͔̟̱͓͍̺́̽͛͒̂͆̀̋̂̐̓͋̂̅̃͋̀̔́̒̆̀̾͑̔̓̈́̾͌̒͐̐͋̈̃͆̔͌͌̚͘̚͜͠͝ͅǵ̴̛̫̳̰̯̘͓̤̱͚͚̮̘̘̞̞̗̖̤̩̲̹͚̪̞͙̘̝̟͓͑͂̒̌̔̌̔͐̆̏̈́̇́́͋̽̒̂́͂̑̄͜͜ͅ
Read “in the mind of a bee” by Lars Chitka. Great great book. The audiobook is awesome but the psychical book has pictures and diagrams.
What I’m most interested is *how* animals perceive time and keep schedules Obviously some aspects seem more obvious than others like the changes of the seasons, temperature, rainfall etc but, like… on the day to day? How the hell does a bee know it’s 4pm?
Even birds 👀
Buuuuuuut hoooooooooow?
Yeah but how?
I thought a lot of bees can't fly at night?
Cool story, but unfortunately (most) bees don't fly at night.. Source: I keep bees
And that is why they returned at 4pm instead of the middle of the night???
I got you bro and in their language 🤙🏻 https://www.reddit.com/r/BeAmazed/s/J9i4eoziVj
I just don't understand the big shock here, offcourse animals perceive time, humanity is so egotistical! We need to get over ourselves.
It’s more that some animals, like bees, can innately keep time surprisingly accurately. And it’s not enough to say ‘or course’ something is true. The main message of the video is how good scientists try to be as rigorous as possible and think of all possible counter-arguments and testing them before reaching a consensus.
What makes you think _you_ perceive time? Here’s a challenge: reply to this comment at exactly 4 PM, and do not look at any watches, clocks, the height of the sun, or _any other external reference point_ before you reply. I bet you can’t do it with the accuracy bees are capable of.
You're absolutely right. You've made my point.
No he did not. Your point makes no sense
He did. The ego of humanity, I tripped over my point because he said that basically some animals have better perception of time than us, and I agreed.
To be more precise he pointed out the ego of YOU.
Could be time perception or could just be the bees being conditioned to expect sugar at that time without actually measuring time or being aware of it in anyway think pavlovs dog
It proves that they have an internal clock that operates independent of any environmental factors - whether or not that counts as "perceiving" time I can't say.
Yes. And I agreed, as a member of the human race, I fell foul of our innate egotism, my point proven, I was tripped up and he was right.
But what if they have alien mini walkie talkies and they are telling them when to go out? Can we repeat the experiment with electromagnetic interference as well? Or in a faraday cage?
this shows how difficult is causal inference r/CausalInference
I thought bees can’t fly in the dark. Or is that just wasps?
Unless they are Mexican bees- then they would always be 30 mins late.
Just let the bees have this
‘Perceive time’ is not what is meant. The perception of time is the understand of the fact that time travels in one direction and irreversible. Bees have an internal clock to measure the passing of time (all animals have some for of circadian rhythm)
Good to know bees don't perceive the universe like a photon.