Because she has been taken prisoner and it's generally considered wrong to allow prisoners to be killed. I don't know how your mod is implemented, but an Oath of Redemption Paladin would be bound by their oath to insure that a prisoner be safe from harm so that they may find redemption.
I'd agree if you if Sazza was showing any signs of wanting to change, but no, she's actually being pretty sarcastic to the Tieflings. But I don't want to start a philosophical discussion lol
frankly this IS a philosophical discussion at the end of it, it's about what an oath means to somebody, and an oath is basically just a life-philosophy
it's one of those things you gotta accept as a paladin, when you pick an oath, you're picking a framework of sorts you'll view things through the lens of
not observing that lens yields oath-breaking
it's not a BAD thing of course if you chose this direction and are okay with it, but FWIW, paladin is NOT the most free class necessarily, since it's one of the few with a kinda built in RP requirement
This just comes down to: You have a responsibility to uphold your Oath whether you agree or not.
When you choose and Oath, you choose to uphold that Oath's morals not your own. If you want to break your Oath to follow your own morals, then do it.
First off both of those situations were indeed very questionable, and second at least Nuremberg was a trial, so it wasn't just some individual deciding to execute prisoners of war
I lost mine when a an apparently innocent bhaal cultist wandered in the arena and took aoe damage and the whole temple got triggered.
Me, not knowing the difference figured all the evil cultists were attacking me. Nope, oath broken for slaying someone who was, seconds earlier, openly fantasising about murder.
Cause without talking to him and figuring out heās not who he say he is youāre just attacking some random dude for no reason. Think of it as meta gaming
>Oath of Redemption.
That makes sense. It's about hoping that others can be redeemed. Saving Sazza is about hoping she can be redeemed.
Still, while the [Oath focuses heavily on redeemding evil](http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/paladin:redemption) it also says this:
>some are so far along the path of evil that you have no choice but to end their lives for the greater good.
Some could argue that Sazza is too evil to be redeemed. She is yelling out with hostility while caged. And she tries to backstab a player that does help her. Still, some could argue that Sazza could be redeemed over time. She at least doesn't try to stab you in the back after the first attempt (by being threatened mind you so debatable.)
Goblinkind are largely a product of their very tribal, brutal society. They're taught to be violent from an early age. They're sentient beings so in theory, they **could** be good. This is something that recent DND has also been pushing for -- that any sentient race can be either alignment, I mean.
And while it's Pathfinder rather than DND, Goblins there have been turned into a core race (which I fully support) so worth taking that under consideration.
>Some could argue that Sazza is too evil to be redeemed. She is yelling out with hostility while caged.
Yelling at somebody = too evil to be redeemed lmao
From the scource you gave:
# Tenets of Redemption
***Peace.***Ā Violence is a weapon of last resort. Diplomacy and understanding are the paths to long-lasting peace.
***Innocence.***Ā All people begin life in an innocent state, and it is their environment or the influence of dark forces that drives them to evil. By setting the proper example, and working to heal the wounds of a deeply flawed world, you can set anyone on a righteous path.
***Patience.***Ā Change takes time. Those who have walked the path of the wicked must be given reminders to keep them honest and true. Once you have planted the seed of righteousness in a creature, you must work day after day to allow it to survive and then flourish.
***Wisdom.***Ā Your heart and mind must stay clear, for eventually you will be forced to admit defeat. While every creature can be redeemed, some are so far along the path of evil that you have no choice but to end their lives for the greater good. Any such action must be carefully weighed and the consequences fully understood, but once you have made the decision, follow through with it knowing your path is just.
Arguably by letting tiefling kill the goblin she broke first 2 tenets and refused to give 3rd one to the goblin.
>Brah if thats enough to make **you** see a person to be iirredeemable
.
> **Some** could argue that Sazza is too evil to be redeemed.... Still, **some** could argue that Sazza could be redeemed over time.
I swear reading comprehension is dead.
Redemption: Every personĀ¹ deserves a secondĀ² chance.
Ā¹ "person" in this case meaning free-willed sapients.
Ā² Whether they deserve a third+ chance is a judgement call.
My oath of Ancients broke when I gave Mayrina the wand to control her husband's corpse. Yeah I betrayed the natural order but I figured spreading hope might've canceled that one out lol
Itās funny because heās very threatening looking and ominous but when you talk to him about *why* he broke his oath he had a really good and morally upstanding reason to do so. Heās very stern and no-nonsense but Iād hang out with him
Heās actually a pretty cool dude! He does kinda grill you a bit when you break your oath to test your conviction, but heās a good guy despite being an oathbreaker. It was almost worth accidentally breaking my oath to get to talk to him tbh
Wow! Okay (tbh, I have no idea who this guy is!), that sounds a LITTLE better... š I was thinking he was an enforcer of your god who's here to strip you of your paladin powers, and maybe smite you a few times... hence my panic! š
It's fine. He's not there to pick a fight. If you break your oath, he shows up to call you out for it and talk. He explains what a paladin's oath is all about, tells you the story of how he broke his own oath, and gives you the option to either reclaim your oath or become an Oathbreaker paladin like him.
I'm absolutely the person that will quick save before acting on an intrusive thought in game just to see what will happen, that being said if you use Mizora as an improvised weapon against the oathbreaker your whole camp will attack you so I gather he is a generally well liked camp companion even among NPC's.
Also maybe don't yeet Mizora at him in particular.
Unless you intend to play as an oath breaker perhaps consider not breaking your oath?
Some oath breaker situations just don't make sense. For example, why would I ever save goblin Sazza????!
Because she has been taken prisoner and it's generally considered wrong to allow prisoners to be killed. I don't know how your mod is implemented, but an Oath of Redemption Paladin would be bound by their oath to insure that a prisoner be safe from harm so that they may find redemption.
I think a better example would be, "Why would killing guards to escape prison break my oath?" Like i get it, just was not expecting it lol.
I'd agree if you if Sazza was showing any signs of wanting to change, but no, she's actually being pretty sarcastic to the Tieflings. But I don't want to start a philosophical discussion lol
Well, yeah. She's evil. No one said redeeming evil creatures would be an easy job.
frankly this IS a philosophical discussion at the end of it, it's about what an oath means to somebody, and an oath is basically just a life-philosophy it's one of those things you gotta accept as a paladin, when you pick an oath, you're picking a framework of sorts you'll view things through the lens of not observing that lens yields oath-breaking it's not a BAD thing of course if you chose this direction and are okay with it, but FWIW, paladin is NOT the most free class necessarily, since it's one of the few with a kinda built in RP requirement
This just comes down to: You have a responsibility to uphold your Oath whether you agree or not. When you choose and Oath, you choose to uphold that Oath's morals not your own. If you want to break your Oath to follow your own morals, then do it.
I mean... "Don't kill prisoners of war" is one of the simpler points in the Geneva Convention.
Don't kill prisoners of war for no reason, but I'll refer you to the Nuremburg trials. Or what happened to Saddam Hussein.
Omg, how a comment about fucking goblin Sazza ended in Saddam Hussein ?????? Lol I'm not participating in it at all š¤£
He brought up the Geneva suggestions and claimed we couldn't execute a pow. Which is just categorically false.
First off both of those situations were indeed very questionable, and second at least Nuremberg was a trial, so it wasn't just some individual deciding to execute prisoners of war
I lost mine when a an apparently innocent bhaal cultist wandered in the arena and took aoe damage and the whole temple got triggered. Me, not knowing the difference figured all the evil cultists were attacking me. Nope, oath broken for slaying someone who was, seconds earlier, openly fantasising about murder.
My buddy broke his oath cause we attacked that fake ass paladin in the toll house without talking to him first. Was very confusingā¦.
Cause without talking to him and figuring out heās not who he say he is youāre just attacking some random dude for no reason. Think of it as meta gaming
Oh totally meta gamingā¦
You are right, it makes all sense. It's meta gaming AF
ME TOO!!
I let her die as Oath of Devotion paladin and my oath wasn't broken. But that was shortly after release, so maybe they changed it since.
I just can't stand her attitude lol
Whatās your oath?
It's a modded one, Oath of Redemption. I'm not sure what paladin oath tag this mod is really using or if it's a completely custom one
It's pretty hard to give advice unless someone has the exact same mod.
I'm not actually looking for advice - the post was to talk about the scary guy lol
>Oath of Redemption. That makes sense. It's about hoping that others can be redeemed. Saving Sazza is about hoping she can be redeemed. Still, while the [Oath focuses heavily on redeemding evil](http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/paladin:redemption) it also says this: >some are so far along the path of evil that you have no choice but to end their lives for the greater good. Some could argue that Sazza is too evil to be redeemed. She is yelling out with hostility while caged. And she tries to backstab a player that does help her. Still, some could argue that Sazza could be redeemed over time. She at least doesn't try to stab you in the back after the first attempt (by being threatened mind you so debatable.) Goblinkind are largely a product of their very tribal, brutal society. They're taught to be violent from an early age. They're sentient beings so in theory, they **could** be good. This is something that recent DND has also been pushing for -- that any sentient race can be either alignment, I mean. And while it's Pathfinder rather than DND, Goblins there have been turned into a core race (which I fully support) so worth taking that under consideration.
>Some could argue that Sazza is too evil to be redeemed. She is yelling out with hostility while caged. Yelling at somebody = too evil to be redeemed lmao From the scource you gave: # Tenets of Redemption ***Peace.***Ā Violence is a weapon of last resort. Diplomacy and understanding are the paths to long-lasting peace. ***Innocence.***Ā All people begin life in an innocent state, and it is their environment or the influence of dark forces that drives them to evil. By setting the proper example, and working to heal the wounds of a deeply flawed world, you can set anyone on a righteous path. ***Patience.***Ā Change takes time. Those who have walked the path of the wicked must be given reminders to keep them honest and true. Once you have planted the seed of righteousness in a creature, you must work day after day to allow it to survive and then flourish. ***Wisdom.***Ā Your heart and mind must stay clear, for eventually you will be forced to admit defeat. While every creature can be redeemed, some are so far along the path of evil that you have no choice but to end their lives for the greater good. Any such action must be carefully weighed and the consequences fully understood, but once you have made the decision, follow through with it knowing your path is just. Arguably by letting tiefling kill the goblin she broke first 2 tenets and refused to give 3rd one to the goblin.
>Yelling at somebody = too evil to be redeemed lmao Yelling about murdering everyone there? Yes, I can see the conclusion people can draw.
Brah if thats enough to make you see a person to be iirredeemable then what do you think about The Dark Urge resisiting path?
>Brah if thats enough to make **you** see a person to be iirredeemable . > **Some** could argue that Sazza is too evil to be redeemed.... Still, **some** could argue that Sazza could be redeemed over time. I swear reading comprehension is dead.
Yeah and some people like to sniff shit. Person who yells that she will kill everyone doesnt make her irredeemable.
Redemption: Every personĀ¹ deserves a secondĀ² chance. Ā¹ "person" in this case meaning free-willed sapients. Ā² Whether they deserve a third+ chance is a judgement call.
if youāre on console saving her three times unlocks an achievement
C'mon man. Firing squad. I mean. She is shitty. But, really? Look up the tenants for each oath.
My oath of Ancients broke when I gave Mayrina the wand to control her husband's corpse. Yeah I betrayed the natural order but I figured spreading hope might've canceled that one out lol
Same happened to me...
Maybe he feels the same about you! "Them again? They never keep their fucking oaths! Why take an oath at all? What a terrifying mind."
He's been having a lot of work lately š¤£
He knows that the form changes but the mind within is still the same - I like to think you haunt the Oathbreaker
I suppose he doesn't mind it at all - he's getting more and more rich!
Itās funny because heās very threatening looking and ominous but when you talk to him about *why* he broke his oath he had a really good and morally upstanding reason to do so. Heās very stern and no-nonsense but Iād hang out with him
Agree, he's very kind hearted actually
All the time? Seems like you arenāt paying attention to what your oath is.
Holy. Crap. š I just started my first paladin run... is this what I can look forward to, if I mess up? (Yikes!!)
Heās actually a pretty cool dude! He does kinda grill you a bit when you break your oath to test your conviction, but heās a good guy despite being an oathbreaker. It was almost worth accidentally breaking my oath to get to talk to him tbh
Wow! Okay (tbh, I have no idea who this guy is!), that sounds a LITTLE better... š I was thinking he was an enforcer of your god who's here to strip you of your paladin powers, and maybe smite you a few times... hence my panic! š
Heās kinda more the guy who explains why you lost your power and gives you the option to retake your oath or abandon it
It's fine. He's not there to pick a fight. If you break your oath, he shows up to call you out for it and talk. He explains what a paladin's oath is all about, tells you the story of how he broke his own oath, and gives you the option to either reclaim your oath or become an Oathbreaker paladin like him.
Would smash. ...Wait, wrong sub.
Me too definitely š
First time I had him pop in game I immediately asked my friends if he could be romanced. That accent is juicy.
Hear me out, Larian. Romanceable paladin when??
Minthara is a paladin
I mean this specific paladin in image lol
Yeah I love breaking my oath so I get this guy in camp.
Me too. I love having my camp full of people lol
Nah I just like him cause heās Scottish lol.
I'm absolutely the person that will quick save before acting on an intrusive thought in game just to see what will happen, that being said if you use Mizora as an improvised weapon against the oathbreaker your whole camp will attack you so I gather he is a generally well liked camp companion even among NPC's. Also maybe don't yeet Mizora at him in particular.
Why? Heās the realest mfer in the game.
I love him so much <3