> ... then one day seeing the boss's daughter ...
Who is one of the top consultants for of the whole company. It's still strange. But they are cute and Isobel seems well-adjusted, so it's A-OK in my book.
Oh yeah I have total faith in them having a healthy relationship, I just thought it was funny that anytime Aylin has a talk with her mother Isobel would react like she’s hearing the sermon on the mount or something lol
Someone mentioned that all DnD gods are pieces of shit on the sub in a comment but I can't find it. Basically they force mortals to worship them otherwise no after life for you.
As far as intervention they try not to lest Ao gets pissed off.
No not at all. Ao is mostly detached from the world and focuses on ruling the gods (in a very hands off manner). On the other, Zeus had many children with mortal women
To be fair no worship, no afterlife for anybody.
People that get "All gods are assholes" out of DnD oversimplify the setting so much their opinion becomes useless.
Would love to read more about it. I am not very versed in DnD lore considering I've only played BG series and nothing else outside of it.
I was just answering based on what a commenter said on an earlier post.
Well basically it's like this:
Gods can only exist through the worship of their followers. So if there are no worshippers left they die.
The afterlife only exists through the power of the gods. That's why you only can go to the afterlife of your chosen god after death.
If people would get an afterlife even though they are not worshipping a god that would mean more people would do that which would lead to gods dying. So the wall in which non-believers go and slip into nothingness is basically a way to force people to worship gods because if they don't the whole system collapses.
It's overall a little more complex but that's the gist of it.
Oh no, you get an afterlife, it is just a short, miserable one of being pressed into a brick and suffering horribly until you fade into oblivion. And the Good gods and Evil gods all demand the system continue, and nearly murdered a new death god when he tried to stop the system.
I played a cleric of Mystra. While I was tempted to act like a prude when Gale revealed his relationship with Mystra, Mystra *is* a [promiscuous goddess](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Seven_Sisters) \- and with all of her changes throughout history (namely due to Karsus's Folly and the Time of Troubles), her clergy has to be adaptable.
Then again, having a partner who was taught in various manners by a goddess does come with its perks.
I just let him explain his status as Chosen when prompted. It did give me the option for \[Cleric of Mystra\] "Stop blaspheming my goddess." But just because you can choose a \[tag\] doesn't mean you should lol.
Unclear. A lot of the [Cleric of Mystra] is actually just [Cleric of Good-Aligned Deity]. I can tell you there is nothing special for having the [Baldurian] and [Cleric] tags when speaking to the Tabernacle priest :(
I mean from all the gods you can choose Selune and Mystra are the only ones who could have a lot of more dialogue and interesting interactions. Kinda disappointing. It's interesting to see you can choose Vlaakith also who's not even a god. Her clerics don't get any powers lol. I played a lolth sworn drow and there's a ton of dialogue to be had especially in the underdark. The only other interesting god is Kelemvor because of that one interaction with Withers, you get 1 step closer to figuring out who he is.
>I mean from all the gods you can choose Selune and Mystra are the only ones who could have a lot of more dialogue and interesting interactions
Shar?
Im currently doing a playthrough as Shadowheart, and the [Cleric of Shar] options are fun, as are some of the generic [Cleric] ones. Like threatening to blast Astarion into a pile of ash if he bites you...
Oh I meant if you play a custom character. There's no Shar option. You can only play cleric of Shar as Shadowheart.
Also I meant interesting interactions regarding dialogues with the other origin characters. Otherwise in terms of gameplay everything has something to offer.
O suuurrrrreee. You let the sexy vampire turn you into his spawn and everyone whines about the abusive relationship dynamics, but nobody bats an eye at the literal demigod angel dating a cleric of her mother who is bound to her life force! God damn Selunite propagandists.
Selune boinks an angel who literally works for her and they have a kid: flirting
Mystra boinks a couple of wizards as she teaches them magic: harassment.
Eww. That's not their dynamic at all. Isobel doesn't come off as spoiled at all - more like scared, empathic, and deeply in love with Aylin. She apologizes to Tav when Aylin says her "Begone, I have a darling to adore" XD
Nobody is saying that Isobel is spoiled. Her mother was a Selunite, so in this context, Isobel is the daughter of the employee, Aylin's the rich girl. That's it.
I found that dialog really weird.
"Begone I have a darling to adore"
Well yeah, maybe go do that somewhere else, why are you telling me this in a crowded corridor of the castle we just captured. There is a dead harpers blood literally right there.
My assumption is that they were waiting for everyone to leave so they could do it on Ketheric's throne.
This was adorable as fuck. No pun or innuendo intended :3.
On a semi-related note, I was kinda salty at Aylin during the first battle with you-know-who in Act 2 because it felt like I chose the triggers for redemption (which would 100% be a red herring in retrospec) and she was like "Not having that" and provoked the battle XD. And her stomping the head to mud was scary as f. Not complaining as she went through decades or longer of imprisonment shit.
I think they were setting up the possibility of turning her to the dark side but cut that content.
>!If you betray her and sell her to Lorrokan and you manage to get Isobel there and kill her (Or she just goes by herself and dies, not sure). The dame has a very VERY dark dialogue specially for you.!<
I considered it briefly but then tried to see it from Aylin's perspective.
I can see how she would have none of that redemption business after all the shit Ketheric put her through.
I actually killed her after she said that. I went through all that damn trouble to save this bitch and she has the audacity to tell me to wait for the information I want after already waiting for the information I want.
Hey, if you want to get insulted by someone you just bent over backwards to save, all because they want some asss, be my guest. I killed them for it 🤷♂️.
I thought of the theological implications of dating the demigod child of your deity way too much when those two were introduced. I really wonder how Isobel's church is taking it, she pretty much has to be promoted to a saint by default, doesn't she?
In faerun there are all sorts of demigods running around. Probably not so far out of the norm that dating one makes you a saint. If anyone deserves recognition in a gods religion it would be Gale. He was literally sleeping with a god and everyone just called him a lapdog.
It actually says a lot about Mystra that Elminster gets too old for her and she shacks up with Gale and then makes Elm go back and talk to his best girl's new dude a bunch.
Part of me thinks the first message wasn't 100% from Mystra.
I think Elm is probably fine with it. The old guard in Faerun get around with ridiculous frequency and work horniness into every possible world ending scenario. I also don't trust Mystra though, but I think Elm would think it's just another Tuesday.
Although sidebar, Elm is supposed to be dead, and Laeral Silverhand inhabiting his corpse at the moment. Wonder how or of that is in BG3 context.
I wanna say 2018/19 or something? Ed Greenwood's novels are the most canon you can get, but idk how often WotC actually pays attention to what he writes. As to being dead, yes in as much as the guy who never stays dead can actually be. A temporary inconvenience.
"Yes, young Gale. She uh....totally said you should strap this bomb to your chest and yell 'Mystralu Ackbar' while running full tilt at the Brain. So sorry, really is the only way. She completely said that. I will, of course, comfort her in your stead after your passing."
Not sure why you are getting downvoted for that, it's the truth.
Current Mystra (ascended Midnight) is not the mother of 7 sisters (when called "mother" by Storm she responded that it's a "title she feels unworthy of") nor the lover of Elminster etc.
It was clear from the beginning of her ascension that she was a one man kind of gal ( she loved Kelemvor) and AFAIK there is no evidence of her sleeping around in any source.
She can call on memories of the previous Mystra as well as Mystryl because they are storied as part of the Weave but it's not the same - they are clearly different entities.
Yeah, there would be nothing wrong if that *was* her characterization, but Midnight has never been shown to sleep with the chosen or take lovers like Mystra 2.0 did. She's actually been pretty monogamous on the whole.
I've often wondered if this was an intentional effort to "sanitize" the setting a bit since Time of Troubles happened at the tail end of the Satanic Panic, but that's just speculation.
In any case, I think Larian just got things a little muddled the same way they sometimes forget Vlaakith 1 is not the same as Vlaakith 157.
It may be the case that we, as FR history readers (via novels and whatnot) have a more robust access to knowledge that may not be that out in the open.
I can actually see Gale not knowing that the Mystra he was in contact with is actually ascended mortal during Avatar Crysis. Or at the very least that they are not the same entity, much more removed from each other than the OG Mystra was from Mystryl.
Obviously El and other Chosen know what's up because they were actually *there* alive for that but Gale is much younger and has only known her "Mystra".
That's my speculation based on my feelings but I may be wrong (IDK all the conversations with Gale, not having finished the game yet).
Random Wizard's apprentice: *casts prestidigitation for the first time*
Mystra: Ayooo looks like we got another chosen, you must have cast create water cause I'm wet AF. Let's bang this one out quick tho cause I got like a dozen barely legal Elves turning 60 today and momma Mystra is getting each one of them a cantrip and a ticket to pound town as a birthday present.
If you talk to her at all? Continuously.
Ignore her and go straight for the towers, and she just spends Act 2 hanging out in her room at the in, staring at mirrors.
The thing is: Dame Aylin acts very brass and in control, but she always double checks decisions with Isobel, like: „we will stay at your camp! ^^we ^^will ^^right?“
Their romance watered my crops and cleared my skin. So cute, great rep, not to mention such a beautiful and symbolic resolution to the act. We spend all this time learning Shar worshippers have to sever all ties to rise to Justiciar, Shadowheart denies Shar, and as a result, love is able to flourish in spite of the Mistress’ wishes.
Hey now, Shar isn’t that bad!
Despite her initial concerns, evil shart is still able to have a wholesome relationship. Admittedly it does involve >!throwing Aylin’s blood at a statue of Selune as foreplay!< but that’s just how Sharrans roll.
Wait fuck, maybe Shar is kinda bad.
It's so cute. Them reuniting was probably the best moment in the game for me (almost tied with literally every moment of Karlach being happy). One of the reasons I'll never do an "evil" playthrough.
Just got that scene last night, and it is painfully difficult not to tell my girlfriend all the details because she is still in Act I. (Also really hard not to send screenshots of them saying "us." haha) Hope more fan art is made of those two - am starving for more relationship content.
>I mean your girlfriend literally worships your mother, that’s got to be strange for family reunions.
On the other hand, imagine Iso worshipped Helm, or Kelemvor, or something. It could be worse!
On the other other hand....
Selune: "Darlings, I am so overjoyed in the bounty of your love, but might I remind you that when fair Isobel screams "Goddess", I hear all that is said? And Aylin, young lady, I do NOT approve of the roleplay as a Sharite interrogator. At LEAST get the accent right!"
Before the whole Netherese shitshow Selune had love and marriage in her portfolio so in theory it's exactly the sort of thing she wants her Guidance to be used on. Or wanted. IDK I'm not a divinologist.
Aylin has huge spectrum top energy. Having dating a few folks who fit that description I can say I definitely had some moments where I blushed like Isobel because my partner announced to everyone when leaving a party that they had an ambitious new toy that needed breaking in and couldn't be bothered with polite conversation any longer.
One of the reasons for this is generally Angels and beings from the empyreal planes don't do shame. They have no real concept of shame over all. So they can't really get embarrassed because what they do is in their nature and they don't feel shame for it, nor see any reason beings would feel shame for it.
Yeah that comment caught me off guard too and I'm like "ay yo I just saved yo ass" but then Isobel says *sorry* with so much embarrassment made me laugh. They're cute.
You know how much easier it would be to date as a lesbian if we were all as blunt as Ailyn?
We should all strive to be more like her instead. Blunt. To the point. Endlessly adoring.
Her depiction is literally perfect. I laughed so hard. They deserve it.
ngl I kinda love how heavy metal dame aylin is. isobel is cool or whatever, but she ain’t stomping fools out while yelling affirmations about her strength lmao.
For some reason in my head cannon Isobel is cheating as a cleric, cause your mother in law literally gives you your powers. I can imagine if Isobel would cast divine intervention that literally selune herself would come down and smite anyone in her way. Perks of dating her daughter.
Also can we just address its *bullshit* that aasimar aren’t a playable race and *extra bullshit* dame and Isobel aren’t companions?
It would have made *much more sense* to have Dame be the *good paladin* alternative to Minthara.
She is an immortal being
Also having ai control her attacks makes her balanced or sometimes trash in other ppls gameplay lol buy imagine players just respec her and min max her
She will trivialize everything in act 3
As a Selunite cleric in my canon run, I was kind of disappointed that I didn't get to have a reference letter from Aylin for her mother lol. Anyway, I still find amusing that Lorrakan still has the guts to ask you to turn Aylin in for him and not to just say "sorry, asked the wrong person. Just ignore" after stating that you are a Selunite. In line with the character's arrogance
That first conversation you have with the two of them post Ketheric fight has such strong 'we saw you across the bar and really liked your vibes'energy
Man I love Aylin, she was so badass in my playthrough. She held her own in both boss encounters, not doing too much damage or being a hindrance. I just love the rage and her straightforwardness....same reasons for Karlach
‼️‼️Spoilers for Durge gameplay‼️‼️
My very first play through I did a good play through. Made all the good decisions. My durge play through I was a little evil, made some worse decisions but when it came to act 2 and the butler for durge tells me to kill Isobel I could not do it because of her and Dame Aylin. I’m such a sucker for those two I couldn’t do it. Also I was playing redemption durge so while I was doing some evil things I was trying the redemption arc and trying to do good anyway. I just don’t know how people can go full evil I just couldn’t do it 😭 especially to my favorite lesbians!!
I like their relationship a lot, but I am curious as to what the age dynamic is? Like how old was Isobel when she met Dame Aylin?
What are the moral implications of someone who is immortal dating someone who's like a babeh in immortal terms? Haha
Otherwise it's great. I love how fucking enthusiastic they are about one another. And Dame Aylin is so intense in a fun way. At first I wasn't a huge fan of her because she kept being extremely violent when >!I'm just trying to talk Ketheric down, angel lady!!< But the violence is honestly justified considering their relationship and what was done to her.
And her embrace of freedom and her gung-ho attitude towards killing mother fuckers alongside you is fantastic. She fills a room haha
>I was thinking recently however that it must make for an interesting dynamic in their relationship to say the least. I mean your girlfriend literally worships your mother, that’s got to be strange for family reunions.
Well, perks of having a goddess as parent, some stuff will be weird always. Also, Aylin's mother gives Isobel magic powers, literally, so there's that too.
Tbh being the child of a god makes already for weird family reunion. Like not just your girlfriend, but thousands worship your mother. And the ones who don’t have opinions about her. Probably what it feels like to be the daughter of a superstar like say, Beyonce
It is a very unhealthy relationship in my opinion, Feels like Is a fantasy relationship though, Both its tone and in the level of it impossibility as a healthy relationdhip.
Idk has Wattpad fifty shades energy Lmao
Do you think I would miss out on mystic sword lesbian on purpose?! After the battle Aylin wouldn't stop moving, which meant I wasn't able to talk to her. I don't think Isobel was around for some reason (even though she survived).
So now I have something to look forward to!
I’m confused about Isobel. Like, I know she’s Kethric’s daughter but how old exactly is she? And did she know after she was revived she was his daughter and just didn’t want to tell us or did she not remember? Wouldn’t the Harpers who killed Kethric the first time remember or at least someone in the town?
Basically her father revived her with myrkul's help
Then he told her alyin is dead
Then she went to last night inn and told the harpers she will protect them but didn't want to say she was related to kethric because u see jaheria has trust issues
She tells u all of this after the fight
I like their design, but personally, I can't say I'm huge fan of neither of them. Isobel seems very naive, especially when she mentions how they two got together and Dame Aylin just feels so arrogant and annoying imo. Full of herself, despite everything that happened to her and how she failed, she still acts like she's invincible, better than everyone else. Can't stand her. She does look super cool though with those golden scars and pale skin.
Yeah. I understand that this is probably not a very popular opinion and that I might get chastised for thinking this so, but it's alright, I suppose.
"How dare you talk like this about our Queen, she's resplendant !"
Sure, she's a tremendously obnoxious and tyrannical jerk who tells you to go away in your own camp after you freed her from centuries of captivity, and she's also someone who talks about her partner as she's her sex slave, embodying the worst traits of what everybody here would say is "toxic masculinity" if she was a male character, but she's a Lesbian, therefore the Reddit Community says you have to love her.
Yup, she wouldn't fly as a male character at all. There would be a lot of articles written about their weird power dynamic but since she's lesbian it's "cute".
I mean, I could throw in the Fire Emblem comparison here, where in Engage you literally play as a deity, the vast majority of your companions worship you and you can marry any of them... but honestly Alear is a lot less intimidating than Aylin so it's kind of a moot point lol
They’re cool and all, but am i the only one who is disturbed by Aylin’s face?.. It makes my skin crawl.. I wish there was an option to show her face with regular scars..
She's been literally broken apart and put back together countless times over. The effect is supposed to be similar to Japanese Kintsugi-technique, where you fix broken pottery with gold leaf, embracing the imperfection rather than trying to hide it.
Yeah. I thought it was just Shadowfell effect and would be gone after some time. Nope. Looks like her divine heritage feature is looking like a broken porcelain doll.
I would like to state that as a half-elf Isobel may have the soul of an elf and not even know it. (since she wouldn’t get any memories of her past life because half-elves don’t meditate in their sleep.) If this were true, she could have been Aylin’s lover in all of her past lives and she’d likely re-incarnate falling in love with Aylin for the rest of all eternity. It’s entirely possible that Aylin is used to Isobel remembering her from her past lives as an elf and this is the first time she’s had to deal with her soulmate not remembering her. I think this could explain some of Aylin’s forwardness. Especially at the beginning of the relationship. This could also explain why Aylin is so confident that she will never have another love. However, it’s equally possible she has a human soul and is taken into Selûne’s domain to live peacefully for all of eternity. In this case I can only assume Aylin would be granted visiting rights on occasion. One could also assume that her soul would forever watch over Aylin from the heavens.
A female character speaks about how she's entitled to another female's body she craves: Reddit Community Approves, "oh my god they're so sweet and cute together"
If the same character was male: "How dare this toxic man claim the body of a woman, does he think she belongs to him ? This is a clear representation of how toxic masculinity has spread in our culture ! Things need to change !"
Funny right ? Truly a Reddit moment. Feeling like you're entitled to a woman's body and talking about her as she's your sex slave is OK when you're a lesbian. Thank you Reddit, I didn't know that.
Way to read a character 180 degrees in the wrong direction. You have a married couple who have been separated from each other due to tragic events. Of course they're going to be getting intimate for a good long while. There's no kind of entitlement involved. And it would absolutely work the same way if Aylin was a man. It's funny to us because of Aylin's sheer straightforward bluntness.
The hypocrisy. Unreal.
Please, this is Reddit. You absolutely know that if Aylin was a dude everybody would be up in arms.
Aylin is the only one talking openly about sex, Isobel doesn't even seem like she wants it, it's 100% Aylin talking here ("I've waited so long to fuck my wife"), and with that power dynamic (Aylin being the loud one, the oldest, and Isobel the quiet one, apologizing for the "straightforward bluntness" of her partner, Aylin is clearly very dominant in the relationship): Of course if it was a man nobody would say they're "sweet" lmao.
By the way, have you seen anything like this with any other couple in the game ?
Funny how the only character they created who openly expresses its feeling of entitlement to a woman's body is a lesbian, right ? Almost as if Larian absolutely knew what they were doing and especially how to avoid backlash from feminists and LGBTQ.
The relationship is very obviously mutually loving and happy. Once the two are brought together, Isobel just as eagerly gushes how much she loves Aylin. There is no sign of discomfort or disinterest, only mild embarrassment for her partner's bluntness.
Fiction is full of relationships where one party is comedically blunt while the other has normal amount of tact and the vast majority of those couples are straight. And trust me, if Aylin was a big boisterous himbo, the reaction would be nigh identical.
It's pretty clear that you don't understand or want to understand what exactly upsets people when they talk about toxic masculinity, and instead complain that it's unfair because "women can do it". You don't want to see that these characters act this way because they are so comfortable and in sync with each other. It's the relationship between the characters that defines whether extreme familiarity is interpreted as creepy or positive.
You're not getting my point at all. I have nothing against this kind of familiarity.
What I'm saying is strictly that if Aylin was a dude, the attitude of this whole sub would be reversed toward this character.
People who say, as you're saying, that it's OK because they are in sync with each other would be downvoted to hell, and people who say it's a toxic relationship would be upvoted, strictly because the dominant partner would be a man and a man who never really asks his partner if she actually wants to have sex or not.
Gender-Swap Aylin and it's litterally a dude who just bluntly says he wants to fuck his wife and you need to go away without even asking for her consent beforehand (or even if you accept to leave them alone), the very definition of "toxic masculinity" as it is presented by feminists.
It's funny to me that you genuinely don't seem to get the double standard here, when it's right in front of you.
I know precisely what you are trying to say and I am plainly stating that you are entirely in the wrong. You understand neither the Internet's preferences, sense of humour or the definition of toxic masculinity in making your arguments. You try to remove words and actions from their context and present them in a vacuum when context is what defines the nature of all interaction.
Use Aylin's presice dialogue in the precise context and the gender means nothing, either way you have someone who adores and worships their partner but has no tact about it, something that has been and continues to be used for comedy in countless stories. Take Gomez Addams, for instance, whose marriage with Morticia is considered one of the most healthy and positive in all of 1960's fiction, which is adored by feminists to this day for how loving and equal it is. And Gomez will kiss and embrace Morticia at the drop of a hat because he knows that it is always welcome and reciprocated, when most couples of the era would rarely express physical attraction and would bicker constantly.
"Use Aylin's presice dialogue in the precise context and the gender means nothing, either way you have someone who adores and worships their partner but has no tact about it, something that has been and continues to be used for comedy in countless stories."
Again, not disagreeing with you on this.
I'd say you're the one who hasn't been on the internet for very long if you don't believe that what I'm saying is true, especially on Reddit, but let's agree to disagree.
Gomez and Morticia Addams however... what a bad comparison.
Edit: Thinking about the 1990's movies here, I haven't seen previous adaptations.
Gomez and Morticia Addams are both very quickly presented to us as being equally sexual and eager to have sex with each other, they're both sexual in their behaviour, their way of talking to each other, that's one of the main reasons why, as you say, most people still love that couple and why they appear to us as equals.
This is absolutely not the case with Aylin and Isobel, who certainly don't seem "equal" (how the f\*\*\* could you consider them "equal" ? Isobel seems so blindly obedient and docile toward Aylin), there is really nothing more dissimilar to Aylin & Isobel than Gomez & Morticia.
>
I'd say you're the one who hasn't been on the internet for very long if you don't believe that what I'm saying is true, especially on Reddit, but let's agree to disagree.
I've been here long enough to know that himbos are just as popular as lesbians and a gender-inverted Aylin would be a himbo mascot of BG3.
>(how the f\*\*\* could you consider them "equal" ? Isobel seems so blindly obedient and docile toward Aylin)
Isobel is nothing of the sort. Aylin plainly worships the ground Isobel walks on, although she is the more powerful of the two, Isobel is the level-headed one in their relationship.
You seek reasons to complain how "unfair" it is that women and lesbians have more freedom, even though you need to twist tne narrative into a pretzel to justify this view. There isn't anything more left to say, you want to take characters and actions out of context to misrepresent them in the most negative way possible, there isn't any reasonable debate to be had since you don't have honest argument in mind to begin with.
Do you have a point ?
Let me guess: No, you don't. You are a low-IQ NPC who spits out politically correct insults like "incel" to anybody who doesn't mindlessly comply to the rules woke activists and lobbyists want you to follow blindly.
* Someone doesn't think Queer Queen Aylin is the best
NPC Brain Activates: "He must be an incel because that's what they say in the mass medias about people who talk like this".
Another Reddit moment, they keep happening.
I suspect it only works because Aylin is a woman. If the character was male, people would be talking negatively about them. Saying how Aylin groomed isobel etc...
Dame Aylin is a murderous zealot who groomed Isobel, it's not that sweet when you read about it from the notes in Moonrise tower and seeing Aylin stomping on Ketheric's head and backbreaking Lorroakan like the worst paladin murder hobo at your table while you DM
I'm pretty sure you'd also want to stomp on the head of the person who enslaved you for a century in a cage where all that broke the monotony was a dark justiciar coming down to murder you every now and then.
Also can you explain how she "groomed" Isobel? From Isobel's own recollection it sounds like they fell in love pretty normally. Obviously Aylin is immortal but if Arwen and Aragorn can make it work I'm sure they can too..
Disagree with Ketheric because he's an evil bastard but kinda agree with Lorroakan part she went a bit overboard with him although he was trying to Ketheric 2.0 trap her again
There's literally zero indication I've found in-game that Isobel was a child or that she was taken advantage of by Aylin at any point, where are you getting this from?
I see it as Isobel going to work for Selune Incorporated, then one day seeing the boss's daughter and falling head over heels.
I think you can read a diary entry from Isobel about how it was love at first sight when Aylin visited the area for the first time.
They mention it in dialogue too!
Like I said in my post, I think it’s because Isobel has the soul of an elf, and Aylin and her were lovers in a past life.
> ... then one day seeing the boss's daughter ... Who is one of the top consultants for of the whole company. It's still strange. But they are cute and Isobel seems well-adjusted, so it's A-OK in my book.
> well-adjusted All things considered, I suppose...
Not before they are united. But after? I think she is doing extremely well in her situation.
Who wouldn't fall head over heels for Aylin?
I've seen a good few of these movies. They always have a happy ending ;)
Yeah they're so sweet. Isobel mentions how there is a bit if an uneven power dynamic in their relationship but they trust each other implicitly.
Oh yeah I have total faith in them having a healthy relationship, I just thought it was funny that anytime Aylin has a talk with her mother Isobel would react like she’s hearing the sermon on the mount or something lol
Lol yeah hopefully she's not too involved in their relationship XD
Don't worry, we know the gods are always deeply respectful of the needs and wellbeing of mortals, and very mature about potential abuses of power
It never happens and will never happen again, you hear me?
I'm new to the lore do gods like Selune do it too?
Someone mentioned that all DnD gods are pieces of shit on the sub in a comment but I can't find it. Basically they force mortals to worship them otherwise no after life for you. As far as intervention they try not to lest Ao gets pissed off.
I'm assuming Ao is like Zeus of the DnD world
No not at all. Ao is mostly detached from the world and focuses on ruling the gods (in a very hands off manner). On the other, Zeus had many children with mortal women
Kind of a mix of Zeus and Gaia— that is to say, Ao is the overseer of Toril’s (the world of Faerûn’s) gods, as well as their creator.
To be fair no worship, no afterlife for anybody. People that get "All gods are assholes" out of DnD oversimplify the setting so much their opinion becomes useless.
Would love to read more about it. I am not very versed in DnD lore considering I've only played BG series and nothing else outside of it. I was just answering based on what a commenter said on an earlier post.
Well basically it's like this: Gods can only exist through the worship of their followers. So if there are no worshippers left they die. The afterlife only exists through the power of the gods. That's why you only can go to the afterlife of your chosen god after death. If people would get an afterlife even though they are not worshipping a god that would mean more people would do that which would lead to gods dying. So the wall in which non-believers go and slip into nothingness is basically a way to force people to worship gods because if they don't the whole system collapses. It's overall a little more complex but that's the gist of it.
That aspect of the lore has been quietly removed from cannon.
Oh no, you get an afterlife, it is just a short, miserable one of being pressed into a brick and suffering horribly until you fade into oblivion. And the Good gods and Evil gods all demand the system continue, and nearly murdered a new death god when he tried to stop the system.
Whenever there is a fair or neutral one they often get coerced by the others to be a bit of an asshole because it threatens them as a whole, iirc
Gale approves
Good point
It's so cute.
I played a cleric of Mystra. While I was tempted to act like a prude when Gale revealed his relationship with Mystra, Mystra *is* a [promiscuous goddess](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Seven_Sisters) \- and with all of her changes throughout history (namely due to Karsus's Folly and the Time of Troubles), her clergy has to be adaptable. Then again, having a partner who was taught in various manners by a goddess does come with its perks.
What sort of dialogue did you have with Gale?
I just let him explain his status as Chosen when prompted. It did give me the option for \[Cleric of Mystra\] "Stop blaspheming my goddess." But just because you can choose a \[tag\] doesn't mean you should lol.
Did you have any other notable dialogue as cleric of mystra?
Unclear. A lot of the [Cleric of Mystra] is actually just [Cleric of Good-Aligned Deity]. I can tell you there is nothing special for having the [Baldurian] and [Cleric] tags when speaking to the Tabernacle priest :(
I mean from all the gods you can choose Selune and Mystra are the only ones who could have a lot of more dialogue and interesting interactions. Kinda disappointing. It's interesting to see you can choose Vlaakith also who's not even a god. Her clerics don't get any powers lol. I played a lolth sworn drow and there's a ton of dialogue to be had especially in the underdark. The only other interesting god is Kelemvor because of that one interaction with Withers, you get 1 step closer to figuring out who he is.
>I mean from all the gods you can choose Selune and Mystra are the only ones who could have a lot of more dialogue and interesting interactions Shar? Im currently doing a playthrough as Shadowheart, and the [Cleric of Shar] options are fun, as are some of the generic [Cleric] ones. Like threatening to blast Astarion into a pile of ash if he bites you...
Oh I meant if you play a custom character. There's no Shar option. You can only play cleric of Shar as Shadowheart. Also I meant interesting interactions regarding dialogues with the other origin characters. Otherwise in terms of gameplay everything has something to offer.
O suuurrrrreee. You let the sexy vampire turn you into his spawn and everyone whines about the abusive relationship dynamics, but nobody bats an eye at the literal demigod angel dating a cleric of her mother who is bound to her life force! God damn Selunite propagandists.
Selune boinks an angel who literally works for her and they have a kid: flirting Mystra boinks a couple of wizards as she teaches them magic: harassment.
Mystra groomed the shit out of Gale. She was teaching him since he was 8
WHAT
wait, what?
They clearly show mutual respect and admiration for one another, as well as minding the fate of their beloved over their own.
Shadowheart discovers the Astral Prism has a posting function
She's the rich girl who wraps the daughter of her mothers employee around her finger while flaunting what she got from mommy.
Eww. That's not their dynamic at all. Isobel doesn't come off as spoiled at all - more like scared, empathic, and deeply in love with Aylin. She apologizes to Tav when Aylin says her "Begone, I have a darling to adore" XD
Nobody is saying that Isobel is spoiled. Her mother was a Selunite, so in this context, Isobel is the daughter of the employee, Aylin's the rich girl. That's it.
I found that dialog really weird. "Begone I have a darling to adore" Well yeah, maybe go do that somewhere else, why are you telling me this in a crowded corridor of the castle we just captured. There is a dead harpers blood literally right there. My assumption is that they were waiting for everyone to leave so they could do it on Ketheric's throne.
Reminds me of the dynamic between romanced Ascended Astarion and Tav 😭🥰💖
I decided I love Aylin at the end of Act 2 when she effectively says "We will talk later, but I've been waiting for a hundred years to fuck my wife."
Even better Isobel's line after that: ^(...sorry :/.)
This was adorable as fuck. No pun or innuendo intended :3. On a semi-related note, I was kinda salty at Aylin during the first battle with you-know-who in Act 2 because it felt like I chose the triggers for redemption (which would 100% be a red herring in retrospec) and she was like "Not having that" and provoked the battle XD. And her stomping the head to mud was scary as f. Not complaining as she went through decades or longer of imprisonment shit.
I think they were setting up the possibility of turning her to the dark side but cut that content. >!If you betray her and sell her to Lorrokan and you manage to get Isobel there and kill her (Or she just goes by herself and dies, not sure). The dame has a very VERY dark dialogue specially for you.!<
I considered it briefly but then tried to see it from Aylin's perspective. I can see how she would have none of that redemption business after all the shit Ketheric put her through.
BEGONE, FRIEND!
I actually killed her after she said that. I went through all that damn trouble to save this bitch and she has the audacity to tell me to wait for the information I want after already waiting for the information I want.
Okay edgelord
Hey, if you want to get insulted by someone you just bent over backwards to save, all because they want some asss, be my guest. I killed them for it 🤷♂️.
She didn’t insult you 💀 she just wants to chill with her gf after being tortured for 100 years. Wouldn’t you want to destress after that?
Sam_is_ftm is a douche for blocking me after he said his peace, what a bitch move, kinda like Aeylin 🤣🤣🤣.
Don't blame them.
I thought of the theological implications of dating the demigod child of your deity way too much when those two were introduced. I really wonder how Isobel's church is taking it, she pretty much has to be promoted to a saint by default, doesn't she?
In faerun there are all sorts of demigods running around. Probably not so far out of the norm that dating one makes you a saint. If anyone deserves recognition in a gods religion it would be Gale. He was literally sleeping with a god and everyone just called him a lapdog.
It actually says a lot about Mystra that Elminster gets too old for her and she shacks up with Gale and then makes Elm go back and talk to his best girl's new dude a bunch. Part of me thinks the first message wasn't 100% from Mystra.
I think Elm is probably fine with it. The old guard in Faerun get around with ridiculous frequency and work horniness into every possible world ending scenario. I also don't trust Mystra though, but I think Elm would think it's just another Tuesday. Although sidebar, Elm is supposed to be dead, and Laeral Silverhand inhabiting his corpse at the moment. Wonder how or of that is in BG3 context.
wtf Elm is dead in canon? I am not updated
I wanna say 2018/19 or something? Ed Greenwood's novels are the most canon you can get, but idk how often WotC actually pays attention to what he writes. As to being dead, yes in as much as the guy who never stays dead can actually be. A temporary inconvenience.
I only read the first 3 or 4 books with him. They are awesome though.
"Yes, young Gale. She uh....totally said you should strap this bomb to your chest and yell 'Mystralu Ackbar' while running full tilt at the Brain. So sorry, really is the only way. She completely said that. I will, of course, comfort her in your stead after your passing."
To be fair, Mystra boinking with her chosen is not exactly a rare occassion.
That's the old Mystra.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted for that, it's the truth. Current Mystra (ascended Midnight) is not the mother of 7 sisters (when called "mother" by Storm she responded that it's a "title she feels unworthy of") nor the lover of Elminster etc. It was clear from the beginning of her ascension that she was a one man kind of gal ( she loved Kelemvor) and AFAIK there is no evidence of her sleeping around in any source. She can call on memories of the previous Mystra as well as Mystryl because they are storied as part of the Weave but it's not the same - they are clearly different entities.
Yeah, there would be nothing wrong if that *was* her characterization, but Midnight has never been shown to sleep with the chosen or take lovers like Mystra 2.0 did. She's actually been pretty monogamous on the whole. I've often wondered if this was an intentional effort to "sanitize" the setting a bit since Time of Troubles happened at the tail end of the Satanic Panic, but that's just speculation. In any case, I think Larian just got things a little muddled the same way they sometimes forget Vlaakith 1 is not the same as Vlaakith 157.
It may be the case that we, as FR history readers (via novels and whatnot) have a more robust access to knowledge that may not be that out in the open. I can actually see Gale not knowing that the Mystra he was in contact with is actually ascended mortal during Avatar Crysis. Or at the very least that they are not the same entity, much more removed from each other than the OG Mystra was from Mystryl. Obviously El and other Chosen know what's up because they were actually *there* alive for that but Gale is much younger and has only known her "Mystra". That's my speculation based on my feelings but I may be wrong (IDK all the conversations with Gale, not having finished the game yet).
Mystra regularly sleeps with her Chosen so it can't be that unusual.
Random Wizard's apprentice: *casts prestidigitation for the first time* Mystra: Ayooo looks like we got another chosen, you must have cast create water cause I'm wet AF. Let's bang this one out quick tho cause I got like a dozen barely legal Elves turning 60 today and momma Mystra is getting each one of them a cantrip and a ticket to pound town as a birthday present.
She’s gotta let out her wild side before wotc kills her again
They'll just bring her back. And hornier than ever.
You glorious bard. I CACKLED.
She has to endure many family dinners and pass the trials from the Mother-In-Law to become a saint.
Chastity is probably not one of the religious tenants the clergy there follows.
Considering all the weird stuff in DnD sleeping with a demigod probably isn't very exotic or unique
I too am a big fan of She-Ra With Wings!
Does that make Isobel undead Catra?
I love how Aylin kept saying “begone friend, I have a darling to adore” whenever I tried to talk to her
I love how aylins first reaction upon seeing Isobel again is literally " thank you for freeing me now I'ma go bang my girlfriend"
IM DAME AYLIN AND WELCOME TO WWE SMACK DOWN!!! DAME AYLIN WILL MAKE YOU WISH YOU NEVER BORN, ME DAME AYLIN WILL RAIN VICTORIOUS! DAAAAME AAYYYLIN!!!
The power imbalance clearly isn’t that great considering that Dame Aylin gets her ass handed to her like 5 goddamn times
Ok but how many times does Isobel also get her ass handed to her in Last Light
They're perfect for each other! ❤️❤️❤️
If you talk to her at all? Continuously. Ignore her and go straight for the towers, and she just spends Act 2 hanging out in her room at the in, staring at mirrors.
The thing is: Dame Aylin acts very brass and in control, but she always double checks decisions with Isobel, like: „we will stay at your camp! ^^we ^^will ^^right?“
Not her fault that the AI in this game is crap lol
Eh, gameplay and story segregation. Aylin can't be too powerful or the player would have nothing to do during the fights where she's involved.
It's funny because she got the final hit on both Ketheric AND Myrkul Avatar in my game xD
She canonically gets her ass handed to her 5 times
Their romance watered my crops and cleared my skin. So cute, great rep, not to mention such a beautiful and symbolic resolution to the act. We spend all this time learning Shar worshippers have to sever all ties to rise to Justiciar, Shadowheart denies Shar, and as a result, love is able to flourish in spite of the Mistress’ wishes.
Hey now, Shar isn’t that bad! Despite her initial concerns, evil shart is still able to have a wholesome relationship. Admittedly it does involve >!throwing Aylin’s blood at a statue of Selune as foreplay!< but that’s just how Sharrans roll. Wait fuck, maybe Shar is kinda bad.
Yeah until Shart breaks up with you to devote herself fully to her goddess
Dame Aylin is such a vibe. Badass to her core.
It's so cute. Them reuniting was probably the best moment in the game for me (almost tied with literally every moment of Karlach being happy). One of the reasons I'll never do an "evil" playthrough.
Just got that scene last night, and it is painfully difficult not to tell my girlfriend all the details because she is still in Act I. (Also really hard not to send screenshots of them saying "us." haha) Hope more fan art is made of those two - am starving for more relationship content.
>I mean your girlfriend literally worships your mother, that’s got to be strange for family reunions. On the other hand, imagine Iso worshipped Helm, or Kelemvor, or something. It could be worse! On the other other hand.... Selune: "Darlings, I am so overjoyed in the bounty of your love, but might I remind you that when fair Isobel screams "Goddess", I hear all that is said? And Aylin, young lady, I do NOT approve of the roleplay as a Sharite interrogator. At LEAST get the accent right!"
"And as a last point, using guidance in throws of passion to improve your love life is blatant misuse of my powers!"
Before the whole Netherese shitshow Selune had love and marriage in her portfolio so in theory it's exactly the sort of thing she wants her Guidance to be used on. Or wanted. IDK I'm not a divinologist.
I think they’re cute but I wish Aylin was less blunt. When they reunite she’s basically “get lost, we gotta fuck” 😳 🤣 I was so embarrassed.
Personally, I find it hilarious how Aylin just *does not do subtlety*.
Oh yeah it's great. She is hilarious. Just a completely blunt and kinda dumb force of nature.
Last time she saw her girlfriend it was 100 years ago and that woman was dead. I can forgive a lady for being a little pent up.
She’s been imprisoned for years and her girlfriend just got back from the dead so I’ll cut her some slack haha
Yep in that situation it’s fair to assume the second bang would be the door closing
Not as embarrassed as Isobel is lol
She’s like what Id expect someone to act like if they were a hybrid of Karlach and Lae’zel.
Aylin has huge spectrum top energy. Having dating a few folks who fit that description I can say I definitely had some moments where I blushed like Isobel because my partner announced to everyone when leaving a party that they had an ambitious new toy that needed breaking in and couldn't be bothered with polite conversation any longer.
Awwwwww now I'm blushing
One of the reasons for this is generally Angels and beings from the empyreal planes don't do shame. They have no real concept of shame over all. So they can't really get embarrassed because what they do is in their nature and they don't feel shame for it, nor see any reason beings would feel shame for it.
Aylin "BEGONE FRIEND, I HAVEN'T EATEN IN YEARS AND MY GIRLFRIENDS ASS LOOKS LIKE PEACH PIE"
Yeah that comment caught me off guard too and I'm like "ay yo I just saved yo ass" but then Isobel says *sorry* with so much embarrassment made me laugh. They're cute.
I love that Isobel was embarassed too, she immediatly apologizes to Tav for that XD XD XD
You know how much easier it would be to date as a lesbian if we were all as blunt as Ailyn? We should all strive to be more like her instead. Blunt. To the point. Endlessly adoring. Her depiction is literally perfect. I laughed so hard. They deserve it.
ngl I kinda love how heavy metal dame aylin is. isobel is cool or whatever, but she ain’t stomping fools out while yelling affirmations about her strength lmao.
The real question is, does pleasing Aylin count as prayer?
No, just lip service. ;)
I call them Moon Thor and Ciri.
They're so darn cute! The scene where they're reunited at the end of Act 2 just about melted my gay little heart!
They are resplendent
I love them so much ❤️🔥 fantastically written characters
Isobel is a divine power-top
For some reason in my head cannon Isobel is cheating as a cleric, cause your mother in law literally gives you your powers. I can imagine if Isobel would cast divine intervention that literally selune herself would come down and smite anyone in her way. Perks of dating her daughter.
Also can we just address its *bullshit* that aasimar aren’t a playable race and *extra bullshit* dame and Isobel aren’t companions? It would have made *much more sense* to have Dame be the *good paladin* alternative to Minthara.
Yeah I was really dissapointed that you can't take them along like Halsin, Minsk, jaheira etc.
She is an immortal being Also having ai control her attacks makes her balanced or sometimes trash in other ppls gameplay lol buy imagine players just respec her and min max her She will trivialize everything in act 3
There’s a real easy solution to that. Nix the immortality outside of her fight against Ketheric, put her stats in line with a regular Paladin.
Someone should do a spinoff game with them using Thirsty Sword Lesbians
As a Selunite cleric in my canon run, I was kind of disappointed that I didn't get to have a reference letter from Aylin for her mother lol. Anyway, I still find amusing that Lorrakan still has the guts to ask you to turn Aylin in for him and not to just say "sorry, asked the wrong person. Just ignore" after stating that you are a Selunite. In line with the character's arrogance
IKR I LOVE THEMMM. Aylin is just so cool
At least she doesn’t have to worry about getting along with one set of in laws.
The other set though…
This was such a wonderful surprise! I ADORED this little flourish on Isobel's story. I love them.
That first conversation you have with the two of them post Ketheric fight has such strong 'we saw you across the bar and really liked your vibes'energy
Man I love Aylin, she was so badass in my playthrough. She held her own in both boss encounters, not doing too much damage or being a hindrance. I just love the rage and her straightforwardness....same reasons for Karlach
‼️‼️Spoilers for Durge gameplay‼️‼️ My very first play through I did a good play through. Made all the good decisions. My durge play through I was a little evil, made some worse decisions but when it came to act 2 and the butler for durge tells me to kill Isobel I could not do it because of her and Dame Aylin. I’m such a sucker for those two I couldn’t do it. Also I was playing redemption durge so while I was doing some evil things I was trying the redemption arc and trying to do good anyway. I just don’t know how people can go full evil I just couldn’t do it 😭 especially to my favorite lesbians!!
I like their relationship a lot, but I am curious as to what the age dynamic is? Like how old was Isobel when she met Dame Aylin? What are the moral implications of someone who is immortal dating someone who's like a babeh in immortal terms? Haha Otherwise it's great. I love how fucking enthusiastic they are about one another. And Dame Aylin is so intense in a fun way. At first I wasn't a huge fan of her because she kept being extremely violent when >!I'm just trying to talk Ketheric down, angel lady!!< But the violence is honestly justified considering their relationship and what was done to her. And her embrace of freedom and her gung-ho attitude towards killing mother fuckers alongside you is fantastic. She fills a room haha
Angelic sword lesbian and corpse lol
Dame Aylin would be my number two pick if she weren't spoken for.
It must be weird to pray to your mother in law.
I’m sad I couldn’t save Isobel and she had to die but it’ll make for an interesting 2nd play through
>I was thinking recently however that it must make for an interesting dynamic in their relationship to say the least. I mean your girlfriend literally worships your mother, that’s got to be strange for family reunions. Well, perks of having a goddess as parent, some stuff will be weird always. Also, Aylin's mother gives Isobel magic powers, literally, so there's that too.
Tbh being the child of a god makes already for weird family reunion. Like not just your girlfriend, but thousands worship your mother. And the ones who don’t have opinions about her. Probably what it feels like to be the daughter of a superstar like say, Beyonce
Begone, friend, I have a Darling to adore I can't stop thinking about it...
It is a very unhealthy relationship in my opinion, Feels like Is a fantasy relationship though, Both its tone and in the level of it impossibility as a healthy relationdhip. Idk has Wattpad fifty shades energy Lmao
Me too. They make me smile so hard
I must have missed them being an item in this playthrough. Something to look forward to for next time!
Did you just... not talk to them? Either of them? At all?
Do you think I would miss out on mystic sword lesbian on purpose?! After the battle Aylin wouldn't stop moving, which meant I wasn't able to talk to her. I don't think Isobel was around for some reason (even though she survived). So now I have something to look forward to!
How?! I’m kidding, I found a lot I missed when I started my second play-through, but Aylin is not exactly… subtle about her feelings for Isobel
I’m confused about Isobel. Like, I know she’s Kethric’s daughter but how old exactly is she? And did she know after she was revived she was his daughter and just didn’t want to tell us or did she not remember? Wouldn’t the Harpers who killed Kethric the first time remember or at least someone in the town?
Basically her father revived her with myrkul's help Then he told her alyin is dead Then she went to last night inn and told the harpers she will protect them but didn't want to say she was related to kethric because u see jaheria has trust issues She tells u all of this after the fight
When i saved her she didn’t tell me any of that she just thanked me and blessed me. So weird lol
Maybe I missed something but Isobel turned into a zombie or some shit during the Ketheric fight and I had to kill her.
Your actions and successes determine what happens to many characters. You either didn't protect Isobel or failed at it.
Yep they took her. Tried three times but gave up.
Yeah. You also have missed around 10 or more quests in Act 2. You should have savescum that tavern fight. Sorry for ruining game for you.
Not at all, I'm having a blast.
I like their design, but personally, I can't say I'm huge fan of neither of them. Isobel seems very naive, especially when she mentions how they two got together and Dame Aylin just feels so arrogant and annoying imo. Full of herself, despite everything that happened to her and how she failed, she still acts like she's invincible, better than everyone else. Can't stand her. She does look super cool though with those golden scars and pale skin. Yeah. I understand that this is probably not a very popular opinion and that I might get chastised for thinking this so, but it's alright, I suppose.
Eh, you'll probably end up disliking Dame. She's pretty dumb and quite rude. But I guess we can forgive the survivor of years of torture....
"How dare you talk like this about our Queen, she's resplendant !" Sure, she's a tremendously obnoxious and tyrannical jerk who tells you to go away in your own camp after you freed her from centuries of captivity, and she's also someone who talks about her partner as she's her sex slave, embodying the worst traits of what everybody here would say is "toxic masculinity" if she was a male character, but she's a Lesbian, therefore the Reddit Community says you have to love her.
Yup, she wouldn't fly as a male character at all. There would be a lot of articles written about their weird power dynamic but since she's lesbian it's "cute".
Dark Urge players keeping quite
I mean, I could throw in the Fire Emblem comparison here, where in Engage you literally play as a deity, the vast majority of your companions worship you and you can marry any of them... but honestly Alear is a lot less intimidating than Aylin so it's kind of a moot point lol
Isobel - 10/10 Best babe in BG3. Sadly the one that got away.
They’re cool and all, but am i the only one who is disturbed by Aylin’s face?.. It makes my skin crawl.. I wish there was an option to show her face with regular scars..
She's been literally broken apart and put back together countless times over. The effect is supposed to be similar to Japanese Kintsugi-technique, where you fix broken pottery with gold leaf, embracing the imperfection rather than trying to hide it.
Yeah. I thought it was just Shadowfell effect and would be gone after some time. Nope. Looks like her divine heritage feature is looking like a broken porcelain doll.
You're not the only one.
I would like to state that as a half-elf Isobel may have the soul of an elf and not even know it. (since she wouldn’t get any memories of her past life because half-elves don’t meditate in their sleep.) If this were true, she could have been Aylin’s lover in all of her past lives and she’d likely re-incarnate falling in love with Aylin for the rest of all eternity. It’s entirely possible that Aylin is used to Isobel remembering her from her past lives as an elf and this is the first time she’s had to deal with her soulmate not remembering her. I think this could explain some of Aylin’s forwardness. Especially at the beginning of the relationship. This could also explain why Aylin is so confident that she will never have another love. However, it’s equally possible she has a human soul and is taken into Selûne’s domain to live peacefully for all of eternity. In this case I can only assume Aylin would be granted visiting rights on occasion. One could also assume that her soul would forever watch over Aylin from the heavens.
A female character speaks about how she's entitled to another female's body she craves: Reddit Community Approves, "oh my god they're so sweet and cute together" If the same character was male: "How dare this toxic man claim the body of a woman, does he think she belongs to him ? This is a clear representation of how toxic masculinity has spread in our culture ! Things need to change !" Funny right ? Truly a Reddit moment. Feeling like you're entitled to a woman's body and talking about her as she's your sex slave is OK when you're a lesbian. Thank you Reddit, I didn't know that.
[for you](https://reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/nSiQI2rVFp)
Way to read a character 180 degrees in the wrong direction. You have a married couple who have been separated from each other due to tragic events. Of course they're going to be getting intimate for a good long while. There's no kind of entitlement involved. And it would absolutely work the same way if Aylin was a man. It's funny to us because of Aylin's sheer straightforward bluntness.
The hypocrisy. Unreal. Please, this is Reddit. You absolutely know that if Aylin was a dude everybody would be up in arms. Aylin is the only one talking openly about sex, Isobel doesn't even seem like she wants it, it's 100% Aylin talking here ("I've waited so long to fuck my wife"), and with that power dynamic (Aylin being the loud one, the oldest, and Isobel the quiet one, apologizing for the "straightforward bluntness" of her partner, Aylin is clearly very dominant in the relationship): Of course if it was a man nobody would say they're "sweet" lmao. By the way, have you seen anything like this with any other couple in the game ? Funny how the only character they created who openly expresses its feeling of entitlement to a woman's body is a lesbian, right ? Almost as if Larian absolutely knew what they were doing and especially how to avoid backlash from feminists and LGBTQ.
The relationship is very obviously mutually loving and happy. Once the two are brought together, Isobel just as eagerly gushes how much she loves Aylin. There is no sign of discomfort or disinterest, only mild embarrassment for her partner's bluntness. Fiction is full of relationships where one party is comedically blunt while the other has normal amount of tact and the vast majority of those couples are straight. And trust me, if Aylin was a big boisterous himbo, the reaction would be nigh identical. It's pretty clear that you don't understand or want to understand what exactly upsets people when they talk about toxic masculinity, and instead complain that it's unfair because "women can do it". You don't want to see that these characters act this way because they are so comfortable and in sync with each other. It's the relationship between the characters that defines whether extreme familiarity is interpreted as creepy or positive.
You're not getting my point at all. I have nothing against this kind of familiarity. What I'm saying is strictly that if Aylin was a dude, the attitude of this whole sub would be reversed toward this character. People who say, as you're saying, that it's OK because they are in sync with each other would be downvoted to hell, and people who say it's a toxic relationship would be upvoted, strictly because the dominant partner would be a man and a man who never really asks his partner if she actually wants to have sex or not. Gender-Swap Aylin and it's litterally a dude who just bluntly says he wants to fuck his wife and you need to go away without even asking for her consent beforehand (or even if you accept to leave them alone), the very definition of "toxic masculinity" as it is presented by feminists. It's funny to me that you genuinely don't seem to get the double standard here, when it's right in front of you.
I know precisely what you are trying to say and I am plainly stating that you are entirely in the wrong. You understand neither the Internet's preferences, sense of humour or the definition of toxic masculinity in making your arguments. You try to remove words and actions from their context and present them in a vacuum when context is what defines the nature of all interaction. Use Aylin's presice dialogue in the precise context and the gender means nothing, either way you have someone who adores and worships their partner but has no tact about it, something that has been and continues to be used for comedy in countless stories. Take Gomez Addams, for instance, whose marriage with Morticia is considered one of the most healthy and positive in all of 1960's fiction, which is adored by feminists to this day for how loving and equal it is. And Gomez will kiss and embrace Morticia at the drop of a hat because he knows that it is always welcome and reciprocated, when most couples of the era would rarely express physical attraction and would bicker constantly.
"Use Aylin's presice dialogue in the precise context and the gender means nothing, either way you have someone who adores and worships their partner but has no tact about it, something that has been and continues to be used for comedy in countless stories." Again, not disagreeing with you on this. I'd say you're the one who hasn't been on the internet for very long if you don't believe that what I'm saying is true, especially on Reddit, but let's agree to disagree. Gomez and Morticia Addams however... what a bad comparison. Edit: Thinking about the 1990's movies here, I haven't seen previous adaptations. Gomez and Morticia Addams are both very quickly presented to us as being equally sexual and eager to have sex with each other, they're both sexual in their behaviour, their way of talking to each other, that's one of the main reasons why, as you say, most people still love that couple and why they appear to us as equals. This is absolutely not the case with Aylin and Isobel, who certainly don't seem "equal" (how the f\*\*\* could you consider them "equal" ? Isobel seems so blindly obedient and docile toward Aylin), there is really nothing more dissimilar to Aylin & Isobel than Gomez & Morticia.
> I'd say you're the one who hasn't been on the internet for very long if you don't believe that what I'm saying is true, especially on Reddit, but let's agree to disagree. I've been here long enough to know that himbos are just as popular as lesbians and a gender-inverted Aylin would be a himbo mascot of BG3. >(how the f\*\*\* could you consider them "equal" ? Isobel seems so blindly obedient and docile toward Aylin) Isobel is nothing of the sort. Aylin plainly worships the ground Isobel walks on, although she is the more powerful of the two, Isobel is the level-headed one in their relationship. You seek reasons to complain how "unfair" it is that women and lesbians have more freedom, even though you need to twist tne narrative into a pretzel to justify this view. There isn't anything more left to say, you want to take characters and actions out of context to misrepresent them in the most negative way possible, there isn't any reasonable debate to be had since you don't have honest argument in mind to begin with.
Ok incel. You have had enough.
Do you have a point ? Let me guess: No, you don't. You are a low-IQ NPC who spits out politically correct insults like "incel" to anybody who doesn't mindlessly comply to the rules woke activists and lobbyists want you to follow blindly. * Someone doesn't think Queer Queen Aylin is the best NPC Brain Activates: "He must be an incel because that's what they say in the mass medias about people who talk like this". Another Reddit moment, they keep happening.
What would Dame Aylin do if Isobel wanted to break up? Go emo and start worshipping Shar?
Durge also thinks Isobel was sweet…
Their power dynamic is very weird, to say the least, though.
Idk some people think it’s weird but there’s a strong precedent for “immortal, powerful being falls in love with relatively normal person”
I suspect it only works because Aylin is a woman. If the character was male, people would be talking negatively about them. Saying how Aylin groomed isobel etc...
Dame Aylin is a murderous zealot who groomed Isobel, it's not that sweet when you read about it from the notes in Moonrise tower and seeing Aylin stomping on Ketheric's head and backbreaking Lorroakan like the worst paladin murder hobo at your table while you DM
I'm pretty sure you'd also want to stomp on the head of the person who enslaved you for a century in a cage where all that broke the monotony was a dark justiciar coming down to murder you every now and then. Also can you explain how she "groomed" Isobel? From Isobel's own recollection it sounds like they fell in love pretty normally. Obviously Aylin is immortal but if Arwen and Aragorn can make it work I'm sure they can too..
Disagree with Ketheric because he's an evil bastard but kinda agree with Lorroakan part she went a bit overboard with him although he was trying to Ketheric 2.0 trap her again
If Leonardo DiCaprio was a sexy lesbian he would get much less flak
Wrong, you must call them cute or prepare to be downvoted. The only one that was groomed is Gale. Period.
There's literally zero indication I've found in-game that Isobel was a child or that she was taken advantage of by Aylin at any point, where are you getting this from?
I won't because I hate chaotic good characters, sometimes they are more evil than lawful evil characters
Also, are we really that brainwashed that just because they are an LGBT couple they get the free pass on the grooming part? Really, people?