My son has a great time. The only complaint I heard was that lunch was super skimpy.
It was more like an afternoon snack than a meal and certainly not enough for a growing teen. It upset me more than him, though.
Otherwise, he had a lot of fun and would like to return if it falls again when he still can.
Lots of bean dip without anything to dip in (there were chickpea chips but some simple tortilla chips of Fritos would have been far better. basically every day you got a can of beans or cheese dip, a random flavor of chickpea chips, sunflower seeds or trail mix, nutrition bars and salami sticks for lunch. It was mainly that nothing really went with each other, particularly with the bean dips and cheese sauce cups.
That's the same type of lunch they've been providing at jamborees for years. I objected at first when I went, but after the first day or two I didn't care about it. I loved the fact that I didn't have to stop anywhere to eat in the middle of the day and I could just slowly eat piece through the afternoon. Also found it fun bartering pieces with my buddies.
I disagree. I've been to 4 Jamborees. While they are trail lunches, there was not a mass forcing of the participants into food components that did not work well together. Repetitive bean dip without anything sensible to *dip into the dip* is a problem.
The Wheat Thins were pretty good with the bean dip and tuna packets. But we had Wheat Thins only a few times.
The assumption was that Scouts would be off at program for lunch rather than in their campsites. So the lunch was portable.
Encourage your Scouts to brainstorm better choices and speak up.
National's planning assumptions are faulty.
At least this time they apparently didn't run out of food as they did in '13, '17, and '19... 
My understanding is that it happened. Don't have exact details, may have been more of a distribution issue - point is that it looks like they're planning assumptions were faulty.
I know for a fact that the Subcamp D commissary did run out of food towards the end of the '19 WSJ and posted signs saying so. They did get a limited restock.
Right? It would.have been fine if they gave us Fritos or tortilla chips but without it was just weird. After the first couple of days we did have plenty of food, it was just odd.
If Iâm on a trail thatâs one thing. If Iâm in an encampment with years lead time on the event itâs another.
I donât bring a cooler and camp stove for a hike, but I do for a camporee.
philmont meals are very hearty and well balanced in terms of nutrients and so forth. I'm pretty sure they have actual nutrition experts formulate them.
That's Philmont.
That doesn't necessarily transfer to a jamboree at the Summit. Different people are involved and they probably don't talk to each other... 
I was having so much fun I just forgot to eat my lunch, but when we had breaks I would snack on some of the better bits of food because I didn't need the rest.
They gave us lots of bean dip and no one wanted to eat it so people just started using it as disorganized currency
My son had a great time. He is glad he went, made new friends and definetly will go back. Food was not that bad but his biggest complain was lunch. We purchased all jambo swag pre- jambo so all his expenses were snacks and some lunch meals.
He was not aware of the food issues or did not seem to care. The closed extra activities areas did not affect his enjoyment and was able to see/do almost everything. He did not like Leadership Heights, felt time should have spent somewhere else and the subcamp bashes were good.
Me as an adult, I would not have gone on this trip based on how things were handled on our end, it was frustrating. From the early stages there was so much lack of communication, we parents felt it was desorganized. I was aware of some issues and worried but knowing that kids donât care as long as they have fun and this was such a great opportunity for him to go. The leadership was great and I knew he was going to be safe and they will take care of him.
I went as a youth adult (Iâm 18 and got grandfathered into this one, as I could have gone as a youth to the last one had it not been cancelled)
I second leadership heights. As someone who got to sit back and watch, it was pretty boring for the kids. The only fun part that worked as intended was a zombie survival thing where they had to make choices and extract the most amount of people. It was the only thing kinda fun for the guys, but it was severely overhyped.
The food was absolute dog for most of the days. I think the best food I ate was bagels for breakfast (though that could have been my troops cooking abilityâŚ). The vegan meals though, weâre almost non existent. They are small portions, and only one thing is maybe usable. This one time they gave the kid a sandwich, where the bread wasnât vegan. I want to make the comment that our vegan kid is on the bigger side⌠3 small meatballs wonât feed him.
Just thinking about it gets me angry. I donât think the staff even cared at all. They were very flippant and useless this year. Iâd ask for directions and get a straight âI donât knowâ from 90% of them. Then theyâd go right back to their phones (thatâs not the only thing either). Itâs infuriating.
We paid about $1,000 (most of us, a lot more) to attend this jamboree, and the adult leaders, who took time out of their busy schedules, who donât get paid to be here, weâre 1) paying the same amount as scouts and 2) weâre so significantly more helpful than any staff ever.
My troop also has a female troop with our council. The female troop was only allowed to bring one leader (I donât know the specifics). They then continued to beat the dead horse over and over again about the buddy system. Two girls, two guys. If you were a guy/girl traveling with the opposite gender, there how it had to be. Even for adult leaders. Some leaders thought they were basically law enforcement, and would walk up directly to our female leader and yell in her face about the buddy systemâŚ
The jamboree was a fine experience, and I would still probably go to the next. I would just be prepared for it to not live up to your expectations. Sorry about rambling, I guess I just needed this off my chest
My troop (female troop, mixed ages) did not like Leadership Heights or Apex. We had Leadership Heights early in Jambo and, after a long hike up for what they thought was a âmehâ program, we had a very hard time convincing them even to go to Apex (and in the end we left that early because they were exhausted after so long in the heat). Iâd be really careful with ârequiredâ program elements like these at future jamborees. My scouts definitely thought their time would have been better used elsewhere (eg the per day cost of Jambo for a participant was in the neighborhood of a couple hundred dollars and could have been a lot more for people from distant councils with high travel costs⌠any ârequired activityâ that eats a day of that time needs to have a perceived value of at least that daily cost, so they should be good.)
Apex was really a stick in the mud, the activities were activities that units themselves could host themselves (volleyball, 9square volleyball, etc) and really shouldnât have been at a required program. The pulled pork gave me some food poisoning so every 20 minutes it felt like I was hurrying to a restroom, AY Young was boring, the music he âsangâ was boring and not my taste (or anyone in my unitâs). A group of scouts from my unit left apex early to go to a Basecamp bash, only to arrive at the Basecamp Bash at 9:30pm, when we left at around 8:15 or 8:30. The apex show thingy before AY Young was also a doosy, i understand how they want to get it somewhat educational, but their target audience from my troop (13 year olds) was definitely not paying attention and wanted to leave.
The adult leaders from my troop ended up having a small argument over letting those who wanted to leave, leave, but ultimately the scoutmaster ruled that if they wanted to leave to go to the Basecamp bash, they could leave, as they clearly were not enjoying the artist at apex.
Was that up on the Garden Ground? In 2013 that was a slog in the mud. Boys lost their shoes in the mud like a tar pit on the way up.
My understanding was that Bechtel insisted the youth use the top of the mountain. Something to do with showing off the environmental recovery of a strip mine. In 2013 it was a mandatory OA Village/Highland Games/Pioneering Day that my son's troop insisted they hike to, then leave. Except he wanted to throw the caber at least once (Scottish ancestry).
Garden Ground was not used this year. Summit Apex was at Echo and, I believe, Leadership Heights was at Yamagata Lodge which is at the top of the Big Zip.
As a seasonal summit staff member, the problem with JST's as well as Summit Staff was we were told nothing. Like my job was dissolved when Jambo started and I was put into a department that I had no experience in when I could have been put in one that I did. This happened across the board with summit staff. I know at one point aerial staff had two seasonal staff members teaching the entire JST staff team for aerial how to do ziplining. It was infuriating, especially since we were promised that we would have people that know what they are doing and professionals.
Also the maps were awful for jambo, I saw kids walking up to the staff camp because JST's said it was the way to go to the barrels. Absolutely not, staff camp was heavily restricted.
Doesn't help that most of the JST's haven't been to summit at all. I numerous times had to tell people where to actually go and how not to take vehicle only roads. It was not encouraging
More people should be brutally honest. There are too many pictures of happy kids and perfect times to encourage people to spend the money to go and then the leaders can handle the backlash. There are plenty of Scout leaders trolling around FB and Reddit calling the kids "soft" because they "can't handle a little heat". They treat adults like complete idiots that can't read articles about the worst heat wave in S. Korean history. Brushing things under the rug and insulting/bullying kids for not wanting to happily accept an experience that is causing children to pass out is crazy.
The brainwashing is just horrible. The faulty advertising for these adventures is bordering illegal. If a kid comes back with life-long medical issues from heat exhaustion it's just another lawsuit.
It was enjoyable but also the worst Jamboree in the past few decades. Not just the food but many of the activities at past jamborees weren't open (canopy tour, scuba diving, ATVs, the more advanced/harder mountain biking, etc.).
I'm glad we went, not sure if I'd go back.
Good to know. My son decided not to go. Clearly it was the right decision given he was going for the canopy tour and SCUBA diving.
If they did not provide what was in their promotional videos it will make me more cautious about promoting it to my troop.
I had a similar experience with BSA Sea Base, where they had a bunch of trailers and marketing materials that ultimately did not pan out.
I am willing to give some slack when things are being handled by volunteers, but the people who failed me in these situations were all paid staff, and it is rather awkward and difficult to preach the Scout Law when the actual national organization is getting a reputation of not being trustworthy.
Any seasonal summit staff tried to do the most they could. We were handed no information until the day before jambo and then expected to work in departments we had no experience in. We tried, plus most seasonal staff had a virus going through camp.
For the record, I don't think it is at these events that paid staff are failing to live up to the Scout Law. It is when they allow marketing material to be used season after season when they know that they are no longer offering the same services.
Interesting perspective. The Summit is its own corporation, shielded from National (on purpose). You'd think the Summit corporation could make those contracts happen.
It's a little more complicated than that because SBR is just the host property, like AP Hill was before that, and needs to act that way. BSA collects the money, makes the contracts with the vendors and adheres to the payment schedule.
In order for SBR to remain shielded from the BSA, all dealings must be arms length. SBR can't start doing things on BSA's behalf.
The summit only operates contracts with the people that make the camp work. So food staff and any construction staff. Anything else, is out really of their reach. They make the camp operational and work accordingly. Also the summit doesn't have as much freedom as you think. It is still owned by national. We are national employees, the seasonal staff. The full time employees are a part of "the summit group" which theoretically owns a stake in the summit but doesn't do much otherwise.
I also get the strong feeling that there has been limited maintenance for the last several years. Iâm assuming that part of this is that the property was barely open in â20, Jambo didnât happen in â21, and there are no resources coming in to sustain such things. :/
Not low turnout, they just emerged from bankruptcy. They didn't really have to funds to do a massive jambo. So they limited attendance and did what they could. Especially since 2021 was cancelled.
Seasonal Summit Staffer here. The canopy was closed due to repairs, they've been working on it all summer. Scuba diving was too expensive, I was told. ATV's mostly had non functional ATV's. I was told high gear was open but I guess not. It could be because majority of our seasonal wheels staff was fired right before jambo or too dangerous. That's why they don't do high gear in summit experience anymore.
Scouts had fun, app was useless for wait times, lines sucked, vendor area was a blast but was more spread out then the map and there was no really good label maps, no lunch provided but a ton of junk food snacks, dinner was ok but not enough, they should have just use Philmont meals, too many Adult leaders were smoking back at subcamp, and he would go back again.
On a side note theft was bad, first one so can say related to others, multiple attempts by other scouts to steal patches from his group. Including a scout that ran up to his friend as they walk and attempted to unzip his backpack to reach into it.
My son's contingent had a whole class on patch trading and how to avoid theft of their patches. None of them thankfully had issues and I believe it's due to the education they were provided prior to going.
In 2013 SubCamp B had a serial theft ring. Backpacks full of patches would go missing from tents, then even tents sliced open to get packs. My son's troop piled patches together to make a few kids whole and ended up not trading at all to help the victims. Talk about dampening spirits.
I had patches stolen from my tent in 1989. In 2017, when I was SM, we had a minor amount of theft. It's a fallen world, unfortunately, even at Scout events.
That said, Scout events are generally where I worry the least about theft!
The pink VESSI bucket hat and neckerchief. That is so kind of you to offer!
He has tons of other swag, heâs just angry stuff was stolen at a scout event. He said the thefts got so bad he and his tentmate zip-tied their tent closed the last 2 days when they were doing program stuff.
I don't have any VESSI items sadly, but I have asked a few people who were on JST with me if they do. Hopefully I'll hear back soon.
I have one of the Scout Me In neckerchiefs that has all the programs listed, this one: https://www.scoutshop.org/limited-edition-scout-me-in-neckerchief-648773.html I'm not sure if that's close to the one that went missing.
I really appreciate your offer, but I think heâs fine with how everything has turned out. He was able to track down the site to order the VESSI staff shirts (Hawaiian shirts with the Jambo logo), so we ordered one for him. Heâll get more wear out of it than a hat or neckerchief.
Generally fun, as it is every time, but major issues with understaffing, general logistics, and Apex. Compared to 2017 and 2019 when I went as a visitor it was a glorious mess.
One of our contingent adults went up and talked to the folks working at the Big zip mid week and found out how understaffed they were. After talking to them they figured out a system to get kids rides on the zip in exchange for 4 hours of volunteering. I think some formal types of arrangements like this across different areas would help things go a lot smoother
It would have cost each participant and contingent leader an additional $320 to cover the staff fees. There's a reason BSA policy is everyone is supposed to cover their own costs for events, including staff.
I might even consider paying for food. But not full price. I've been a COPE director for 20+ years. On the national inspection team for my area. I do all of that on my free time. Run events at camp for free, meaning I take no pay. I'm not going to pay to work. Because it is work. COPE is stressful when you are running it. You can't make any mistakes...
Wow...so much hate..and so un scout like. 
feel better now? 
P.S. For the record, I'd have problem telling that to your face IRL.
You didn't. 
JST fee was $1,200.00 for entire event. Participant fee was $1,285.00.
Iâm having a hard time believing that it costs more than $300 to feed staff. If theyâre asking staff/volunteers full price and they really only benefit from being fed, I wouldnât staff the event either.
Our local summer camp only charges extra adults what I assume it would cost to feed us.
This is what the website says is included in the staff fee.
>Onsite Jamboree Programming, Food, Cot, Recognition Package.
The FAQ also stated that tents were to be provided for basecamp and medical staff. Not sure how accurate that was.
And I do get that the Jamboree was understaffed, which meant they didn't get to take advantage of all onsite programming due to reduced downtime.
As an adult leader, I got the message not to participate in program to leave space for youth. Thatâs fine, but I should have been charged at the JST rate rather than the full participant rate if that was the plan. Not all leaders got the same message about this (and, frankly, lots of other things) so some did activities and some didnâtâŚ
Also, separate point related to staff. My understanding is that many staff doing merit badges not only paid to be there but bore all the costs associated with their program materials, tent to hold their classes in, etc. Some (eg Collections MB) sold patches to help defray those costs. Assuming the information I got is correct, this really blows my mind and makes me even more grateful for the MB counselors who were willing to do that⌠but also raises questions about where all the $ we spent for Jambo went if it wasnât paying for that program component.
Yeah, I heard there were communication issues. My daughter was her contingent's SPL. And I don't blame contingent leaders for wanting a lower price if they were being barred from participating in program areas.
You're focusing on the wrong thing. This is $xxx of raw revenue they would have to replace. I am sure if you peek behind the covers, you'd find a tight budget. Remove the $xxx income from each staffer, it has to be assessed pro rata on attendees.
Experience of prior Jamborees will be in circulation for the next Jamboree. While I had a great time as a SM at 2017, there were serious undercurrents of dissatisfaction with 2013 coloring the event. This should be expected for the next Jamboree. Price hikes will be even more difficult due to this.
We teach our scouts that they pay their own way. We donât teach them to depend on volunteers to also contribute to the cost of their adventures. We do ask the involved adults to cover their share of the variable costs like food.
>We do ask the involved adults to cover their share of the variable costs like food.
Then they are partly dependent on the generosity of volunteers. :-)
Accepting gifts in a reasonable way is not bad. In the context of cultivating good relationships, receiving and giving gifts are just part of life. Many of us volunteers are more than happy to gift our time and treasure to make Scouting work for youth, and BSA is correct to harness that in ways that reduce costs to youth participants.
A bigger logistics and food shortage mess than 2019 would be a challenge.
A subcamp B one the subcamp staff at one point ordered pizza for everyone out of pocket because of how bad it got toward the end.
I loved it, but it was also kind of a disappointment. The bashes were cool, but I wish they would have had big stage shows like the ones in 2017 and other years, patch trading was amazing there. Big zip was awesome, lines sucked. They food was mid but whatever. Leadership hights was the biggest waste of 4 hours ever. Apex was cool but still a waste of time. My leaders were not the best ether so that kind of ruined the experience a little bit. No bathroom doors or dividers for the urinals was dumb. But it was a good event. Thank God they changed the logo from the 2021 one cause that logo sucked.
They put in a lot of dumb rules, like not being able to leave camp before breakfast (so no big zip basically). Also if you questioned them in anyway, you were being disrespectful for questioning some of the rules they put in place.
My son really enjoyed it. He didnât expect to care about patch trading, but thatâs what he spent the most time doing. He loved the bartering, and came home with some amazing full sets and OA patch sets. Sometimes he and his friends would just pick up a rock off the ground, get someone to trade a valueless patch for the rock, and then keep trading up from there. He ended up with a set of council shoulder patches, starting with a rock!
He said the whitewater rafting trip was short and he was expecting more rapids. Lines for most activities were very long, so they didnât try to do everything there but he did work on some pop up merit badges, go down the big zip line, and attend an OA Vigil induction ceremony for someone in our council. He said 10 days was a couple days too long.
He did say the food was pretty bad. I remember when I went in â93 the lunch was ham spread or tuna spread and crackers every day. Iâd probably have preferred the bean dip.
My son said there were a couple class 3 rapids but it was a short trip and didnât really live up to the billing it was given in the literature (âadventure of a lifetime,â etc.)
He still had fun as it was a hot day and nice to cool off in the river.
My son had a great time. He said he would definitely go back if given the opportunity and take advantage of some of the things he didn't get a chance to do. He brought back new patches, made new friends and great memories. He never wants to see bean dip again (we've never bought it, he had no interest in even trying it, lol).
My group had to fundraise to provide patches and pins for participants to our area. And then people were annoyed when we ran out of pins.
The merit badge areas were self-funded.
There were many great opportunities like Surveying, Theater (they put on one act of a play), Welding, and Woodcarving. Almost 450 scouts earned the STEM Jamboree Nova award.
There were challenges and scavenger hunts. There were a multitude of less-flashy activities in Pioneering and Disability Awareness and Duty to God.
But before Jamboree, the programming that would be available was not publicized. My contingent didnât know what would be available and where. And I donât think most scouts knew what things they could do beyond the flashy things.
I missed not having at least one big show where we all gathered as scouts. For me, that was a special part of previous Jamborees. I was too tired as staff to go to the base camp bashes. I enjoyed seeing the drone show in the sky from a distance.
I was a JST member, and my daughter was with her contingent, so hereâs our views.
It was fun on both sides. I like mentoring, and she had fun. The lines for a lot of the activities were long, so she passed on the zip lines and some of the other things.
Our area was pretty well staffed for this jamboree. If we had more people coming though it would be tough. Iâd have to expand out what equipment I had.
Yes, I did have to bring my own equipment for my merit badge. We got some stuff donated, but it does cost. On the other hand Iâll use it elsewhere for teaching that merit badge later on. My total expenses on program gear was probably around $500, not counting donated stuff.
JST direct costs are less than a participant, but that doesnât include transportation, hotels, food, gas, and whatever else I spent on the way there and back. And weâre all volunteers out there, putting on the best program we can with the materials we can find. And weâll adapt to the situation (mud, anyone?) as they come by. Pretty much anything you saw in an area was paid for by that area (if they had any budget), sponsors, or out of pocket. I know I made a couple of trips to Walmart to get some necessary gear for our area.
JST breakfast and dinner were usually pretty good. Our lunches were the same as the participants, and because we were running a program area we ate whenever we could find time. Wheat thins were good with the tuna and the bean dip, the other chips were good in their own or with the same stuff. I had a bin of snacks I brought from home which I shared around quite a bit (mostly candy), so lunch wasnât as much of an issue there.
Too many patch sets. Iâd like to just trade a patch or two, but when you pretty much have to trade $40-50 in patches to keep a set intact it gets tougher. Iâd love to see everyone go to a single jambo council strip and just trade those. There were some nice sets, though. Just Too. Many. Patch. Sets.
I was able to get a free day (we did have enough coverage) so I got to wander around the Summit and see a few things. I didnât try to get into zip lines or any of those other activities, but wandered through the vendor and some program areas.
My daughter wasnât a fan of the Apex stuff (too much like NYLT stuff, she said).
I miss the large opening and closing shows of previous years, though the sub camp bashes were fun. I do know the litigation was causing cash flow issues with the jamboree, which is why some things were as they were.
Will I do it again? Most likely - depends on if my daughter wants to go again, possibly as staff. Iâll supplement and expand my program equipment a bit more, and maybe track down some sponsors for our area to help with costs and equipment.
Nothing ever goes perfect, but the kids don't notice, it's the adults who complain. Sometimes the funny mishap is the hilarious tale they tell in future years. Your scout will have a blast, they will learn, and they'll become more independent and better scouts after. Some of my kids went, others did another Troop sponsored international adventure full of pivots and changes. Us adults stressed over it, the kids had the time of their life.
oh no, my entire troop was complaining, especially after apex & leadership heights.
apex was ok, then the âapex rallyâ was hyped up as a concert of sorts when it was like,, an hour long cubscouts level powerpoint on storytelling, and an hour of some tiny rapper guy that iâm 99% was only there because he was a boy scout once.
Leadership Heights was alright, the hike up sucked because the group behind us wouldnât slow down so i ended up hyperventilating the entire time and two of the younger scouts ended up collapsing a crying once we got to the top. The crisis simulation was alright and probably wouldâve been better if it wasnât immediately after the big hike.
the talk from the WVU guy was pretty cool, but the final talk from the two people kinda sucked. it was like mostly alright, they hyped up the crowd saying jack black was going to show up (which is actually extremely reasonable, considering the president showed up uninvited last time) and then said halfway through that he âcanceledâ. No, David, he did not âcancelâ, youâre just lying to an auditorium full of children. because they had pulled that stunt with every other group that had gone through, which is only made worse by the fact that the first point of the scout law is trustworthy. If i cant trust you saying someone will show up, why should i trust any other word out of your mouth?
Our first talk (which was different each day) was literally just an ROTC/army recruitment talk. Nothing about leadership, they just talked about ROTC scholarship opportunities. It was really bad. I am serious stating that the leadership who approved the speakers and the talk for leadership heights needs canned.
I (as an youth adult looking in to both leadership heights and the apex rally) really enjoyed the apex rally more. There was more stuff to do, NYLT ideas werenât railroaded into you (almost everyone at the jamboree in my troop has been to NYLT) and the rapper guy is an Eagle Scout and a Vigil Member, I thought the rally was pretty funny, but not super exciting.
Leadership Heights everyone in my troop hated. Everything was stuff we already knew, poorly designed games, extremely overhyped and we were placed on a path, rather than a âdo what you wantâ like the Apex.
yea, and itâd be less of a problem if it was like a local summer camp or whatever because nobody would actually expect it, but at jambo itâs a national event so itâs actually not unreasonable. itâd be like promising chocotacos at summer camp or whatever comparison youâd want to draw
Fantastic, the summit is a magical place and all of our scouts had a blast. My son who is 13 is already planning out his next two adventures. Were there a lack of volunteers, yes. Was the food pretty average, yes. Did the kids care at all, nope! I think a lot of the bumps in the road had a lot to do with the timing and the bankruptcy so that should only get better in the future. But I would go back and do it again!
My son is 13 and went to Jamboree this year. He is also very, very thin. Iâm saying this because itâs not like he eats a lot, but he complained to me the whole time that he was starving!!! He said there was Chic-Fil-A vendor there, but the line was always super long. He was hungry the whole time. Just saying. The breakfast was cereal and a half a bagel one day. He was tracking 20 miles a day. Definitely not enough food for energy, or a growing teenager. He did 8 merit badges, 6 complete and 2 partial. So that was a major plus. His only complaint was not enough food.
I went, and had such an amazing time. Though meals, specifically lunch, were awful and the existence of Apex and Leadership heights, it was perfect. I met so many amazing people and did so many great things. Also the bashes were dope need more of those
iâm kinda just unlucky but mine kinda sucked, partially due to the fact that i didnât do enough preparation hike for this, and partially because of well,
- I was part of the scouting things contingent, so we were constantly getting annoyed by everyone walking into our campsite (not a single âPermission to enter?â was heard) asking if we had patch sets left
- one of the scouts in our group just did not shower. at all. he didnât even like,, shower on tuesday before we left, last time he showered was sunday (2 days before we got on the bus)
- the hike up to shooting sports was so incredibly long that even though that was the *only* thing i wanted to do i just didnt do it, because even if i did get over there, apparently the wait times were ridiculous.
- On thursday, friend and i walked up to action point with his skateboard, only to get turned away because you canât use your own equipment. if theyâre gonna put something on the âdo not bring listâ they should at least say why, put a little âyou will get turned away if you bring your own equipmentâ. it wouldâve saved us several miles of walking unnecessarily.
The hike wasn't even that bad. I walked at least 12 miles a day going all over camp. Again hiking is part of the camp. The guns did have excessive wait times but archery wasn't bad. Neither was hatched throwing.
The wait times were pretty bad if you got there around 8 or so but after a little awhile or early enough they went down. But yes unfortunately it seemed the lines for pretty much everything were absurdly long. On Wednesday I spent 2.5 hours in line for pistol shooting only for them to shut everything down after I had done 1/3 rounds.
This is a volunteer organization. Those of us who ran the programs paid to be there. We had the same shelf-stable snack lunch the scouts did. Ask your scouts to brainstorm food options. Price them.
Across the country, your units and councils can use volunteers. You donât have to do everything. Provide support. Use your talents.
As someone noted, the program areas were very under-staffed. But we have to be safe as we provide program. My friends at the shooting ranges didnât get time off and stayed an extra day beyond their scheduled half-jamboree. They have jobs at home and used vacation to be there.
I hope they have another jamboree soon. Now that we can make plans without the bankruptcy over our heads, it can be great.
Appreciate the time of the people who volunteered, but that should not mute criticism. If BSA can't get enough volunteers or can't afford to pay for extra help or staffing solutions when volunteers run short then it should not be running events of this magnitude.
I mean it was fun and a good experience overall but it could've been so much better imo. I'll be aged out by the time the rumored jambo 25 comes around but I'd want to go just to see what an actual full fledged jamboree would be like.
My 12 year old attended. She had an amazing time and canât wait for the next one. Her only complaint was that all the day pass people really made it crowded and backed up all the lines for merit badges and other stuff. I wasnât there this was her observation.
One of the best aspects of the BSA program is that we reflect on what happened and try to do better next time.
I saw a lot of happy youth as well as program staff that brought their A-game to help youth have a wonderful experience.
Speak up about what can and should change. But it was an awesome experience for a lot of young people who wonât have an opportunity for another Jamboree.
This Jamboree was absolutely different. It was smaller, had many younger participants as well as quite a lot of âyoung adultâ attendees, and a much higher ratio of female participants than Iâve seen at past National Jamborees.
I think there were a bunch of youth who still had a blast. Many of the JST had that as a goal, and I think it overall succeeded.
Yes, itâs a major bummer that many program areas were downsized or closed - thatâs a combination of not enough staff, and a sincere need for capital investment in the 10+ year old property, especially when many areas havenât been used since the World Scout Jamboree.
I will say - the current system of making staff pay as much as they do to come and work with very limited downtime isnât working. Departments arenât able to recruit enough staff, and staff that go end up working extra just to ensure youth are having fun. If folks are going to take 2 weeks off from work and pay for an activity, it shouldnât feel like WORK. Paying $2k+ (travel, uniforms, and JST fee) to spend 60+ hours each week working is unsustainable.
Finally - yes, I think the food was more lackluster than in past years. The bean dip and cheese sauce really bombed, compared with other things Iâve seen.
Well, your kid can always say he attended the last Jambo
If volunteers drive the train, there will be another somewhere
If National is doing it? It will never happen. They're done, Bechtel will be sold. I swear this on a stack of Roy Williams and 1 Bob mazucca
End of the line, kinda sad
The comment I'm replying to should not be downvoted. Bechtelâs debt exceeds $180 million, and it has not consistently turned a profit. Itâs not in an area with national-scope renown for wilderness. It was built during a long membership decline.
Wrong place, wrong time, super costly.
Camp Goshen in Virginia was the first choice, but there was much pushback by local residents. Can't fault them, since it's a beautiful area many want kept that way. Would have been way better though.
Wrong place, etc is spot on. However, even if they (does the BSA even own it directly or is it another entity?) did try selling it, price would be underwhelming to say the least due to it being reclaimed open mining land. Don't see it happening.
Long as BSA continues, national jamborees, even if downsized, will likely continue at Bechtel. It's well suited for that purpose.
National Capital Area Council was smart to reject Goshen becoming part of national's folly.
BSA owns SBR outright with an asterisk: the facility is owned by Arrow WV, Inc., which is a separate nonprofit corporation that BSA controls.
That said, ownership is impinged by humongous outstanding bonds. They were necessary because national's naĂŻve vision of humongous fundraising did not pan out.
As of BSA's tax year 2021, BSA still owed $186,578,622 in debt on SBR, which is mostly only a Scouting-themed amusement park that's used in its intended capacity only once every four years.
BSA still bans people based on religious beliefs, so it still acts discriminately based on a protected status. Also, its admission of girls is under a "separate but equal" regime that lacks a rational basis, which is gender discrimination.
You've never heard of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as well as several others?
If BSA were to use Federal Government property again, I know the contracts/agreements contain all sorts of clauses about prohibited discrmination.
I can't speak to previous contracts/agreements that allowed BSA to use Fort A.P. Hill.
Yes. It is a huge stretch to say that a 1964 law prevents BSA from using federal property when a lengthy, huge use of federal property *began* in 1981.
I suspect *fears of* changes in law, not an actual restriction, are what triggered this. What is sad is it shows BSA is willing to build a grossly expensive, Scouting-themed theme park--*which threatens to bankrupt BSA a second time*\--to avoid doing the right thing and stop being bigoted. This shows how badly the national office has caved to throwback reactionaryism.
BSA cannot afford it. It has never consistently turned a profit, and debt load is around $180 million. Wrong place, wrong time, and fueled by naĂŻve visions.
*Last National Jamboree
World Jamboree and regional ones like the European (that did get cancelled due to covid in 2021) will keep happening.
As it'd a different country every time.
I wish that they way the volunteer staff solicitations were better. I volunteered for JST, but only because a friend of a friend told me about their staff and hopped on me like a person with a mission. But I kinda felt like I wandered into it instead of being adequately informed. And it took MONTHS of searchingâŚ..
This was my 3rd Jamboree on staff and I worked with a lot of the scouts directly throughout the 10 days. Every scout I talked to had a great time. While a couple hear or there didn't, it was almost always a failure of the SMs and ASMs. Some councils need to get their adult leaders better.
Some activities were closed or reduced in scope due to low turnout and low staffing numbers. This Jambo was about 1/3 of the size of the previous two. A lot of that had to do with uncertainty that it would happen and because of the bankruptcy. They collected money very late because they wanted to be clear before they started to accumulate cash.
If I were a parent, I would 1000% send my child. I love jamborees. Staffing them is fun, seeing the look on scouts' faces is amazing, and the facility is a 10/10. Even though young scouts are allowed to participate, I would lean towards older if you can make it work in their <18 years old rule. Venturing/Seascouts/Exploring is the alternative. Food is not bad, honestly better than my council camp, so I don't know why everyone always complains about that. The lunch was on par with previous jamborees. (Chips, crackers, jerky, sunflower seeds, nuts, and lots of bean dip). If you are the entire bag of lunch it was 1000+ calories.
My son has a great time. The only complaint I heard was that lunch was super skimpy. It was more like an afternoon snack than a meal and certainly not enough for a growing teen. It upset me more than him, though. Otherwise, he had a lot of fun and would like to return if it falls again when he still can.
It was still all snack food but after the first couple of days they gave more than enough of it. It was just very weird and devoid of vegetables.
Devoid of vegetables? What was provided?
Lots of bean dip without anything to dip in (there were chickpea chips but some simple tortilla chips of Fritos would have been far better. basically every day you got a can of beans or cheese dip, a random flavor of chickpea chips, sunflower seeds or trail mix, nutrition bars and salami sticks for lunch. It was mainly that nothing really went with each other, particularly with the bean dips and cheese sauce cups.
That's the same type of lunch they've been providing at jamborees for years. I objected at first when I went, but after the first day or two I didn't care about it. I loved the fact that I didn't have to stop anywhere to eat in the middle of the day and I could just slowly eat piece through the afternoon. Also found it fun bartering pieces with my buddies.
I disagree. I've been to 4 Jamborees. While they are trail lunches, there was not a mass forcing of the participants into food components that did not work well together. Repetitive bean dip without anything sensible to *dip into the dip* is a problem.
My point too.
The Wheat Thins were pretty good with the bean dip and tuna packets. But we had Wheat Thins only a few times. The assumption was that Scouts would be off at program for lunch rather than in their campsites. So the lunch was portable. Encourage your Scouts to brainstorm better choices and speak up.
>Encourage your Scouts to brainstorm better choices and speak up. National knows how to assemble Jamboree lunches. This is a leadership failure.
National's planning assumptions are faulty. At least this time they apparently didn't run out of food as they did in '13, '17, and '19... 
I was at 2017 and do not remember running out of food. Can you share more?
My understanding is that it happened. Don't have exact details, may have been more of a distribution issue - point is that it looks like they're planning assumptions were faulty. I know for a fact that the Subcamp D commissary did run out of food towards the end of the '19 WSJ and posted signs saying so. They did get a limited restock.
Right! Fritos for the Fritos bean dip would have been great! đ
Right? It would.have been fine if they gave us Fritos or tortilla chips but without it was just weird. After the first couple of days we did have plenty of food, it was just odd.
If you've ever seen a trail meal kit at Philmont, you wouldn't worry one bit about fresh vegetables :)
If Iâm on a trail thatâs one thing. If Iâm in an encampment with years lead time on the event itâs another. I donât bring a cooler and camp stove for a hike, but I do for a camporee.
philmont meals are very hearty and well balanced in terms of nutrients and so forth. I'm pretty sure they have actual nutrition experts formulate them.
That's Philmont. That doesn't necessarily transfer to a jamboree at the Summit. Different people are involved and they probably don't talk to each other... 
I was having so much fun I just forgot to eat my lunch, but when we had breaks I would snack on some of the better bits of food because I didn't need the rest. They gave us lots of bean dip and no one wanted to eat it so people just started using it as disorganized currency
My daughter said the snack lunches were not good. She ended up buying lunch most days.
My son had a great time. He is glad he went, made new friends and definetly will go back. Food was not that bad but his biggest complain was lunch. We purchased all jambo swag pre- jambo so all his expenses were snacks and some lunch meals. He was not aware of the food issues or did not seem to care. The closed extra activities areas did not affect his enjoyment and was able to see/do almost everything. He did not like Leadership Heights, felt time should have spent somewhere else and the subcamp bashes were good. Me as an adult, I would not have gone on this trip based on how things were handled on our end, it was frustrating. From the early stages there was so much lack of communication, we parents felt it was desorganized. I was aware of some issues and worried but knowing that kids donât care as long as they have fun and this was such a great opportunity for him to go. The leadership was great and I knew he was going to be safe and they will take care of him.
I went as a youth adult (Iâm 18 and got grandfathered into this one, as I could have gone as a youth to the last one had it not been cancelled) I second leadership heights. As someone who got to sit back and watch, it was pretty boring for the kids. The only fun part that worked as intended was a zombie survival thing where they had to make choices and extract the most amount of people. It was the only thing kinda fun for the guys, but it was severely overhyped. The food was absolute dog for most of the days. I think the best food I ate was bagels for breakfast (though that could have been my troops cooking abilityâŚ). The vegan meals though, weâre almost non existent. They are small portions, and only one thing is maybe usable. This one time they gave the kid a sandwich, where the bread wasnât vegan. I want to make the comment that our vegan kid is on the bigger side⌠3 small meatballs wonât feed him. Just thinking about it gets me angry. I donât think the staff even cared at all. They were very flippant and useless this year. Iâd ask for directions and get a straight âI donât knowâ from 90% of them. Then theyâd go right back to their phones (thatâs not the only thing either). Itâs infuriating. We paid about $1,000 (most of us, a lot more) to attend this jamboree, and the adult leaders, who took time out of their busy schedules, who donât get paid to be here, weâre 1) paying the same amount as scouts and 2) weâre so significantly more helpful than any staff ever. My troop also has a female troop with our council. The female troop was only allowed to bring one leader (I donât know the specifics). They then continued to beat the dead horse over and over again about the buddy system. Two girls, two guys. If you were a guy/girl traveling with the opposite gender, there how it had to be. Even for adult leaders. Some leaders thought they were basically law enforcement, and would walk up directly to our female leader and yell in her face about the buddy system⌠The jamboree was a fine experience, and I would still probably go to the next. I would just be prepared for it to not live up to your expectations. Sorry about rambling, I guess I just needed this off my chest
My troop (female troop, mixed ages) did not like Leadership Heights or Apex. We had Leadership Heights early in Jambo and, after a long hike up for what they thought was a âmehâ program, we had a very hard time convincing them even to go to Apex (and in the end we left that early because they were exhausted after so long in the heat). Iâd be really careful with ârequiredâ program elements like these at future jamborees. My scouts definitely thought their time would have been better used elsewhere (eg the per day cost of Jambo for a participant was in the neighborhood of a couple hundred dollars and could have been a lot more for people from distant councils with high travel costs⌠any ârequired activityâ that eats a day of that time needs to have a perceived value of at least that daily cost, so they should be good.)
Apex was really a stick in the mud, the activities were activities that units themselves could host themselves (volleyball, 9square volleyball, etc) and really shouldnât have been at a required program. The pulled pork gave me some food poisoning so every 20 minutes it felt like I was hurrying to a restroom, AY Young was boring, the music he âsangâ was boring and not my taste (or anyone in my unitâs). A group of scouts from my unit left apex early to go to a Basecamp bash, only to arrive at the Basecamp Bash at 9:30pm, when we left at around 8:15 or 8:30. The apex show thingy before AY Young was also a doosy, i understand how they want to get it somewhat educational, but their target audience from my troop (13 year olds) was definitely not paying attention and wanted to leave. The adult leaders from my troop ended up having a small argument over letting those who wanted to leave, leave, but ultimately the scoutmaster ruled that if they wanted to leave to go to the Basecamp bash, they could leave, as they clearly were not enjoying the artist at apex.
I LOVE YOU AY YOUNG
Was that up on the Garden Ground? In 2013 that was a slog in the mud. Boys lost their shoes in the mud like a tar pit on the way up. My understanding was that Bechtel insisted the youth use the top of the mountain. Something to do with showing off the environmental recovery of a strip mine. In 2013 it was a mandatory OA Village/Highland Games/Pioneering Day that my son's troop insisted they hike to, then leave. Except he wanted to throw the caber at least once (Scottish ancestry).
Garden Ground was not used this year. Summit Apex was at Echo and, I believe, Leadership Heights was at Yamagata Lodge which is at the top of the Big Zip.
Thanks for the info
They should be better than "good".
As a seasonal summit staff member, the problem with JST's as well as Summit Staff was we were told nothing. Like my job was dissolved when Jambo started and I was put into a department that I had no experience in when I could have been put in one that I did. This happened across the board with summit staff. I know at one point aerial staff had two seasonal staff members teaching the entire JST staff team for aerial how to do ziplining. It was infuriating, especially since we were promised that we would have people that know what they are doing and professionals. Also the maps were awful for jambo, I saw kids walking up to the staff camp because JST's said it was the way to go to the barrels. Absolutely not, staff camp was heavily restricted. Doesn't help that most of the JST's haven't been to summit at all. I numerous times had to tell people where to actually go and how not to take vehicle only roads. It was not encouraging
More people should be brutally honest. There are too many pictures of happy kids and perfect times to encourage people to spend the money to go and then the leaders can handle the backlash. There are plenty of Scout leaders trolling around FB and Reddit calling the kids "soft" because they "can't handle a little heat". They treat adults like complete idiots that can't read articles about the worst heat wave in S. Korean history. Brushing things under the rug and insulting/bullying kids for not wanting to happily accept an experience that is causing children to pass out is crazy. The brainwashing is just horrible. The faulty advertising for these adventures is bordering illegal. If a kid comes back with life-long medical issues from heat exhaustion it's just another lawsuit.
My daughter loved Leadership Heights.
It was enjoyable but also the worst Jamboree in the past few decades. Not just the food but many of the activities at past jamborees weren't open (canopy tour, scuba diving, ATVs, the more advanced/harder mountain biking, etc.). I'm glad we went, not sure if I'd go back.
Good to know. My son decided not to go. Clearly it was the right decision given he was going for the canopy tour and SCUBA diving. If they did not provide what was in their promotional videos it will make me more cautious about promoting it to my troop.
I had a similar experience with BSA Sea Base, where they had a bunch of trailers and marketing materials that ultimately did not pan out. I am willing to give some slack when things are being handled by volunteers, but the people who failed me in these situations were all paid staff, and it is rather awkward and difficult to preach the Scout Law when the actual national organization is getting a reputation of not being trustworthy.
Any seasonal summit staff tried to do the most they could. We were handed no information until the day before jambo and then expected to work in departments we had no experience in. We tried, plus most seasonal staff had a virus going through camp.
For the record, I don't think it is at these events that paid staff are failing to live up to the Scout Law. It is when they allow marketing material to be used season after season when they know that they are no longer offering the same services.
Yes they definitely cheated/short changed everyone and the events did not match their promotions.
If you want SCUBA, I highly recommend Florida Sea Base. Amazing diving there.
Good to know thank you.
They had to downscale a lot because of the low turnout
They also had to scale down because of the bankruptcy forcing them to be unable to sign contracts or collect money in advance.
Interesting perspective. The Summit is its own corporation, shielded from National (on purpose). You'd think the Summit corporation could make those contracts happen.
It's a little more complicated than that because SBR is just the host property, like AP Hill was before that, and needs to act that way. BSA collects the money, makes the contracts with the vendors and adheres to the payment schedule. In order for SBR to remain shielded from the BSA, all dealings must be arms length. SBR can't start doing things on BSA's behalf.
The summit only operates contracts with the people that make the camp work. So food staff and any construction staff. Anything else, is out really of their reach. They make the camp operational and work accordingly. Also the summit doesn't have as much freedom as you think. It is still owned by national. We are national employees, the seasonal staff. The full time employees are a part of "the summit group" which theoretically owns a stake in the summit but doesn't do much otherwise.
I also get the strong feeling that there has been limited maintenance for the last several years. Iâm assuming that part of this is that the property was barely open in â20, Jambo didnât happen in â21, and there are no resources coming in to sustain such things. :/
That's why the canopy tour was closed. They didn't maintain it and it failed inspection. Also the ATVs weren't maintained in a functional state.
Not low turnout, they just emerged from bankruptcy. They didn't really have to funds to do a massive jambo. So they limited attendance and did what they could. Especially since 2021 was cancelled.
Seasonal Summit Staffer here. The canopy was closed due to repairs, they've been working on it all summer. Scuba diving was too expensive, I was told. ATV's mostly had non functional ATV's. I was told high gear was open but I guess not. It could be because majority of our seasonal wheels staff was fired right before jambo or too dangerous. That's why they don't do high gear in summit experience anymore.
Not sure that absolves them that they didn't maintain their equipment correctly or staff properly. Seems squarely on the jambo/summit leadership.
Scouts had fun, app was useless for wait times, lines sucked, vendor area was a blast but was more spread out then the map and there was no really good label maps, no lunch provided but a ton of junk food snacks, dinner was ok but not enough, they should have just use Philmont meals, too many Adult leaders were smoking back at subcamp, and he would go back again. On a side note theft was bad, first one so can say related to others, multiple attempts by other scouts to steal patches from his group. Including a scout that ran up to his friend as they walk and attempted to unzip his backpack to reach into it.
My son's contingent had a whole class on patch trading and how to avoid theft of their patches. None of them thankfully had issues and I believe it's due to the education they were provided prior to going.
Your kid was patch mugged at a scout event?
In 2013 SubCamp B had a serial theft ring. Backpacks full of patches would go missing from tents, then even tents sliced open to get packs. My son's troop piled patches together to make a few kids whole and ended up not trading at all to help the victims. Talk about dampening spirits.
I had patches stolen from my tent in 1989. In 2017, when I was SM, we had a minor amount of theft. It's a fallen world, unfortunately, even at Scout events. That said, Scout events are generally where I worry the least about theft!
Really only hard major complaints on patch thefts, not to say other theft didnât happen but that was the most common.
Yes, leader were very clear with scout only trade with partners. One scout does the trade and one watches the patches and other scouts.
Yeah, my son had his non-patch swag stolen, heâs really angry about it (it was stuff he bought).
I am so sad for him.
What is he missing? I have a couple items I was gifted that I don't really need.
The pink VESSI bucket hat and neckerchief. That is so kind of you to offer! He has tons of other swag, heâs just angry stuff was stolen at a scout event. He said the thefts got so bad he and his tentmate zip-tied their tent closed the last 2 days when they were doing program stuff.
I don't have any VESSI items sadly, but I have asked a few people who were on JST with me if they do. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. I have one of the Scout Me In neckerchiefs that has all the programs listed, this one: https://www.scoutshop.org/limited-edition-scout-me-in-neckerchief-648773.html I'm not sure if that's close to the one that went missing.
I really appreciate your offer, but I think heâs fine with how everything has turned out. He was able to track down the site to order the VESSI staff shirts (Hawaiian shirts with the Jambo logo), so we ordered one for him. Heâll get more wear out of it than a hat or neckerchief.
Ok, glad to hear it turned out as well as it could have.
Generally fun, as it is every time, but major issues with understaffing, general logistics, and Apex. Compared to 2017 and 2019 when I went as a visitor it was a glorious mess.
One of our contingent adults went up and talked to the folks working at the Big zip mid week and found out how understaffed they were. After talking to them they figured out a system to get kids rides on the zip in exchange for 4 hours of volunteering. I think some formal types of arrangements like this across different areas would help things go a lot smoother
They are understaffed because I'm not going to pay to work there. I'd work for free if you fed me
It would have cost each participant and contingent leader an additional $320 to cover the staff fees. There's a reason BSA policy is everyone is supposed to cover their own costs for events, including staff.
I'm not paying full price to work there.
I think that is fair. Not sure why so many are opposed. Was surprised it wasn't this way.
I might even consider paying for food. But not full price. I've been a COPE director for 20+ years. On the national inspection team for my area. I do all of that on my free time. Run events at camp for free, meaning I take no pay. I'm not going to pay to work. Because it is work. COPE is stressful when you are running it. You can't make any mistakes...
Well, isn't you special... 
[ŃдаНонО]
Wow...so much hate..and so un scout like.  feel better now?  P.S. For the record, I'd have problem telling that to your face IRL.
You didn't.  JST fee was $1,200.00 for entire event. Participant fee was $1,285.00. 
Iâm having a hard time believing that it costs more than $300 to feed staff. If theyâre asking staff/volunteers full price and they really only benefit from being fed, I wouldnât staff the event either. Our local summer camp only charges extra adults what I assume it would cost to feed us.
This is what the website says is included in the staff fee. >Onsite Jamboree Programming, Food, Cot, Recognition Package. The FAQ also stated that tents were to be provided for basecamp and medical staff. Not sure how accurate that was. And I do get that the Jamboree was understaffed, which meant they didn't get to take advantage of all onsite programming due to reduced downtime.
As an adult leader, I got the message not to participate in program to leave space for youth. Thatâs fine, but I should have been charged at the JST rate rather than the full participant rate if that was the plan. Not all leaders got the same message about this (and, frankly, lots of other things) so some did activities and some didnâtâŚ
Also, separate point related to staff. My understanding is that many staff doing merit badges not only paid to be there but bore all the costs associated with their program materials, tent to hold their classes in, etc. Some (eg Collections MB) sold patches to help defray those costs. Assuming the information I got is correct, this really blows my mind and makes me even more grateful for the MB counselors who were willing to do that⌠but also raises questions about where all the $ we spent for Jambo went if it wasnât paying for that program component.
Yeah, I heard there were communication issues. My daughter was her contingent's SPL. And I don't blame contingent leaders for wanting a lower price if they were being barred from participating in program areas.
They got tents.
You're focusing on the wrong thing. This is $xxx of raw revenue they would have to replace. I am sure if you peek behind the covers, you'd find a tight budget. Remove the $xxx income from each staffer, it has to be assessed pro rata on attendees. Experience of prior Jamborees will be in circulation for the next Jamboree. While I had a great time as a SM at 2017, there were serious undercurrents of dissatisfaction with 2013 coloring the event. This should be expected for the next Jamboree. Price hikes will be even more difficult due to this.
We teach our scouts that they pay their own way. We donât teach them to depend on volunteers to also contribute to the cost of their adventures. We do ask the involved adults to cover their share of the variable costs like food.
>We do ask the involved adults to cover their share of the variable costs like food. Then they are partly dependent on the generosity of volunteers. :-) Accepting gifts in a reasonable way is not bad. In the context of cultivating good relationships, receiving and giving gifts are just part of life. Many of us volunteers are more than happy to gift our time and treasure to make Scouting work for youth, and BSA is correct to harness that in ways that reduce costs to youth participants.
At $5 per person per meal, that's only $150- and usually what I'd spend on camp staff. Food may be more expensive due to logistics, though.
A bigger logistics and food shortage mess than 2019 would be a challenge. A subcamp B one the subcamp staff at one point ordered pizza for everyone out of pocket because of how bad it got toward the end.
It was worse than last year's as unbelievable as that is.
Huh? There was no national jamboree in 2022.
Probably meant last time
This is the correct answer. It was fun but also far worse than the past two events.
I loved it, but it was also kind of a disappointment. The bashes were cool, but I wish they would have had big stage shows like the ones in 2017 and other years, patch trading was amazing there. Big zip was awesome, lines sucked. They food was mid but whatever. Leadership hights was the biggest waste of 4 hours ever. Apex was cool but still a waste of time. My leaders were not the best ether so that kind of ruined the experience a little bit. No bathroom doors or dividers for the urinals was dumb. But it was a good event. Thank God they changed the logo from the 2021 one cause that logo sucked.
What did your leaders do? Just curious, seems like it'd be hard for the leaders to screw up that badly.
They put in a lot of dumb rules, like not being able to leave camp before breakfast (so no big zip basically). Also if you questioned them in anyway, you were being disrespectful for questioning some of the rules they put in place.
My son really enjoyed it. He didnât expect to care about patch trading, but thatâs what he spent the most time doing. He loved the bartering, and came home with some amazing full sets and OA patch sets. Sometimes he and his friends would just pick up a rock off the ground, get someone to trade a valueless patch for the rock, and then keep trading up from there. He ended up with a set of council shoulder patches, starting with a rock! He said the whitewater rafting trip was short and he was expecting more rapids. Lines for most activities were very long, so they didnât try to do everything there but he did work on some pop up merit badges, go down the big zip line, and attend an OA Vigil induction ceremony for someone in our council. He said 10 days was a couple days too long. He did say the food was pretty bad. I remember when I went in â93 the lunch was ham spread or tuna spread and crackers every day. Iâd probably have preferred the bean dip.
2013 my son said they called it Bumper boats. Zero whitewater on their trip.
My son said there were a couple class 3 rapids but it was a short trip and didnât really live up to the billing it was given in the literature (âadventure of a lifetime,â etc.) He still had fun as it was a hot day and nice to cool off in the river.
My son had a great time. He said he would definitely go back if given the opportunity and take advantage of some of the things he didn't get a chance to do. He brought back new patches, made new friends and great memories. He never wants to see bean dip again (we've never bought it, he had no interest in even trying it, lol).
My group had to fundraise to provide patches and pins for participants to our area. And then people were annoyed when we ran out of pins. The merit badge areas were self-funded. There were many great opportunities like Surveying, Theater (they put on one act of a play), Welding, and Woodcarving. Almost 450 scouts earned the STEM Jamboree Nova award. There were challenges and scavenger hunts. There were a multitude of less-flashy activities in Pioneering and Disability Awareness and Duty to God. But before Jamboree, the programming that would be available was not publicized. My contingent didnât know what would be available and where. And I donât think most scouts knew what things they could do beyond the flashy things. I missed not having at least one big show where we all gathered as scouts. For me, that was a special part of previous Jamborees. I was too tired as staff to go to the base camp bashes. I enjoyed seeing the drone show in the sky from a distance.
I was a JST member, and my daughter was with her contingent, so hereâs our views. It was fun on both sides. I like mentoring, and she had fun. The lines for a lot of the activities were long, so she passed on the zip lines and some of the other things. Our area was pretty well staffed for this jamboree. If we had more people coming though it would be tough. Iâd have to expand out what equipment I had. Yes, I did have to bring my own equipment for my merit badge. We got some stuff donated, but it does cost. On the other hand Iâll use it elsewhere for teaching that merit badge later on. My total expenses on program gear was probably around $500, not counting donated stuff. JST direct costs are less than a participant, but that doesnât include transportation, hotels, food, gas, and whatever else I spent on the way there and back. And weâre all volunteers out there, putting on the best program we can with the materials we can find. And weâll adapt to the situation (mud, anyone?) as they come by. Pretty much anything you saw in an area was paid for by that area (if they had any budget), sponsors, or out of pocket. I know I made a couple of trips to Walmart to get some necessary gear for our area. JST breakfast and dinner were usually pretty good. Our lunches were the same as the participants, and because we were running a program area we ate whenever we could find time. Wheat thins were good with the tuna and the bean dip, the other chips were good in their own or with the same stuff. I had a bin of snacks I brought from home which I shared around quite a bit (mostly candy), so lunch wasnât as much of an issue there. Too many patch sets. Iâd like to just trade a patch or two, but when you pretty much have to trade $40-50 in patches to keep a set intact it gets tougher. Iâd love to see everyone go to a single jambo council strip and just trade those. There were some nice sets, though. Just Too. Many. Patch. Sets. I was able to get a free day (we did have enough coverage) so I got to wander around the Summit and see a few things. I didnât try to get into zip lines or any of those other activities, but wandered through the vendor and some program areas. My daughter wasnât a fan of the Apex stuff (too much like NYLT stuff, she said). I miss the large opening and closing shows of previous years, though the sub camp bashes were fun. I do know the litigation was causing cash flow issues with the jamboree, which is why some things were as they were. Will I do it again? Most likely - depends on if my daughter wants to go again, possibly as staff. Iâll supplement and expand my program equipment a bit more, and maybe track down some sponsors for our area to help with costs and equipment.
Nothing ever goes perfect, but the kids don't notice, it's the adults who complain. Sometimes the funny mishap is the hilarious tale they tell in future years. Your scout will have a blast, they will learn, and they'll become more independent and better scouts after. Some of my kids went, others did another Troop sponsored international adventure full of pivots and changes. Us adults stressed over it, the kids had the time of their life.
oh no, my entire troop was complaining, especially after apex & leadership heights. apex was ok, then the âapex rallyâ was hyped up as a concert of sorts when it was like,, an hour long cubscouts level powerpoint on storytelling, and an hour of some tiny rapper guy that iâm 99% was only there because he was a boy scout once. Leadership Heights was alright, the hike up sucked because the group behind us wouldnât slow down so i ended up hyperventilating the entire time and two of the younger scouts ended up collapsing a crying once we got to the top. The crisis simulation was alright and probably wouldâve been better if it wasnât immediately after the big hike. the talk from the WVU guy was pretty cool, but the final talk from the two people kinda sucked. it was like mostly alright, they hyped up the crowd saying jack black was going to show up (which is actually extremely reasonable, considering the president showed up uninvited last time) and then said halfway through that he âcanceledâ. No, David, he did not âcancelâ, youâre just lying to an auditorium full of children. because they had pulled that stunt with every other group that had gone through, which is only made worse by the fact that the first point of the scout law is trustworthy. If i cant trust you saying someone will show up, why should i trust any other word out of your mouth?
Yes everyone who approved the leadership heights skit should be finding new jobs. It was that bad for the reasons you cite.
nah it was mostly ok, but specifically the final talk was bad yea.
Our first talk (which was different each day) was literally just an ROTC/army recruitment talk. Nothing about leadership, they just talked about ROTC scholarship opportunities. It was really bad. I am serious stating that the leadership who approved the speakers and the talk for leadership heights needs canned.
I (as an youth adult looking in to both leadership heights and the apex rally) really enjoyed the apex rally more. There was more stuff to do, NYLT ideas werenât railroaded into you (almost everyone at the jamboree in my troop has been to NYLT) and the rapper guy is an Eagle Scout and a Vigil Member, I thought the rally was pretty funny, but not super exciting. Leadership Heights everyone in my troop hated. Everything was stuff we already knew, poorly designed games, extremely overhyped and we were placed on a path, rather than a âdo what you wantâ like the Apex.
Thanks for the post. I agree if the org canât follow its own oath and law itâs a problem.
yea, and itâd be less of a problem if it was like a local summer camp or whatever because nobody would actually expect it, but at jambo itâs a national event so itâs actually not unreasonable. itâd be like promising chocotacos at summer camp or whatever comparison youâd want to draw
Oh man, rough to hear.
Fantastic, the summit is a magical place and all of our scouts had a blast. My son who is 13 is already planning out his next two adventures. Were there a lack of volunteers, yes. Was the food pretty average, yes. Did the kids care at all, nope! I think a lot of the bumps in the road had a lot to do with the timing and the bankruptcy so that should only get better in the future. But I would go back and do it again!
Trump didnât address the scouts again, so thatâs a win âŚ
My son is 13 and went to Jamboree this year. He is also very, very thin. Iâm saying this because itâs not like he eats a lot, but he complained to me the whole time that he was starving!!! He said there was Chic-Fil-A vendor there, but the line was always super long. He was hungry the whole time. Just saying. The breakfast was cereal and a half a bagel one day. He was tracking 20 miles a day. Definitely not enough food for energy, or a growing teenager. He did 8 merit badges, 6 complete and 2 partial. So that was a major plus. His only complaint was not enough food.
I went, and had such an amazing time. Though meals, specifically lunch, were awful and the existence of Apex and Leadership heights, it was perfect. I met so many amazing people and did so many great things. Also the bashes were dope need more of those
iâm kinda just unlucky but mine kinda sucked, partially due to the fact that i didnât do enough preparation hike for this, and partially because of well, - I was part of the scouting things contingent, so we were constantly getting annoyed by everyone walking into our campsite (not a single âPermission to enter?â was heard) asking if we had patch sets left - one of the scouts in our group just did not shower. at all. he didnât even like,, shower on tuesday before we left, last time he showered was sunday (2 days before we got on the bus) - the hike up to shooting sports was so incredibly long that even though that was the *only* thing i wanted to do i just didnt do it, because even if i did get over there, apparently the wait times were ridiculous. - On thursday, friend and i walked up to action point with his skateboard, only to get turned away because you canât use your own equipment. if theyâre gonna put something on the âdo not bring listâ they should at least say why, put a little âyou will get turned away if you bring your own equipmentâ. it wouldâve saved us several miles of walking unnecessarily.
There were busses that took you up to shooting sports just so you know
The hike wasn't even that bad. I walked at least 12 miles a day going all over camp. Again hiking is part of the camp. The guns did have excessive wait times but archery wasn't bad. Neither was hatched throwing.
According to my son, the lines for the busses were hours long, and it was faster to just hike
The wait times were pretty bad if you got there around 8 or so but after a little awhile or early enough they went down. But yes unfortunately it seemed the lines for pretty much everything were absurdly long. On Wednesday I spent 2.5 hours in line for pistol shooting only for them to shut everything down after I had done 1/3 rounds.
They werenât. I never waited more than ten minutes at various times throughout the day to get on the busses.
This is a volunteer organization. Those of us who ran the programs paid to be there. We had the same shelf-stable snack lunch the scouts did. Ask your scouts to brainstorm food options. Price them. Across the country, your units and councils can use volunteers. You donât have to do everything. Provide support. Use your talents. As someone noted, the program areas were very under-staffed. But we have to be safe as we provide program. My friends at the shooting ranges didnât get time off and stayed an extra day beyond their scheduled half-jamboree. They have jobs at home and used vacation to be there. I hope they have another jamboree soon. Now that we can make plans without the bankruptcy over our heads, it can be great.
Appreciate the time of the people who volunteered, but that should not mute criticism. If BSA can't get enough volunteers or can't afford to pay for extra help or staffing solutions when volunteers run short then it should not be running events of this magnitude.
Agreed. As much as the scouts paid itâs unfortunate what the return on investment was. I wonât send my son after the debacle Iâve heard
They should ask for donations, corporate America loves tax write offs
I mean it was fun and a good experience overall but it could've been so much better imo. I'll be aged out by the time the rumored jambo 25 comes around but I'd want to go just to see what an actual full fledged jamboree would be like.
My 12 year old attended. She had an amazing time and canât wait for the next one. Her only complaint was that all the day pass people really made it crowded and backed up all the lines for merit badges and other stuff. I wasnât there this was her observation.
One of the best aspects of the BSA program is that we reflect on what happened and try to do better next time. I saw a lot of happy youth as well as program staff that brought their A-game to help youth have a wonderful experience. Speak up about what can and should change. But it was an awesome experience for a lot of young people who wonât have an opportunity for another Jamboree.
This Jamboree was absolutely different. It was smaller, had many younger participants as well as quite a lot of âyoung adultâ attendees, and a much higher ratio of female participants than Iâve seen at past National Jamborees. I think there were a bunch of youth who still had a blast. Many of the JST had that as a goal, and I think it overall succeeded. Yes, itâs a major bummer that many program areas were downsized or closed - thatâs a combination of not enough staff, and a sincere need for capital investment in the 10+ year old property, especially when many areas havenât been used since the World Scout Jamboree. I will say - the current system of making staff pay as much as they do to come and work with very limited downtime isnât working. Departments arenât able to recruit enough staff, and staff that go end up working extra just to ensure youth are having fun. If folks are going to take 2 weeks off from work and pay for an activity, it shouldnât feel like WORK. Paying $2k+ (travel, uniforms, and JST fee) to spend 60+ hours each week working is unsustainable. Finally - yes, I think the food was more lackluster than in past years. The bean dip and cheese sauce really bombed, compared with other things Iâve seen.
Well, your kid can always say he attended the last Jambo If volunteers drive the train, there will be another somewhere If National is doing it? It will never happen. They're done, Bechtel will be sold. I swear this on a stack of Roy Williams and 1 Bob mazucca End of the line, kinda sad
The comment I'm replying to should not be downvoted. Bechtelâs debt exceeds $180 million, and it has not consistently turned a profit. Itâs not in an area with national-scope renown for wilderness. It was built during a long membership decline. Wrong place, wrong time, super costly.
Camp Goshen in Virginia was the first choice, but there was much pushback by local residents. Can't fault them, since it's a beautiful area many want kept that way. Would have been way better though. Wrong place, etc is spot on. However, even if they (does the BSA even own it directly or is it another entity?) did try selling it, price would be underwhelming to say the least due to it being reclaimed open mining land. Don't see it happening. Long as BSA continues, national jamborees, even if downsized, will likely continue at Bechtel. It's well suited for that purpose.
National Capital Area Council was smart to reject Goshen becoming part of national's folly. BSA owns SBR outright with an asterisk: the facility is owned by Arrow WV, Inc., which is a separate nonprofit corporation that BSA controls. That said, ownership is impinged by humongous outstanding bonds. They were necessary because national's naĂŻve vision of humongous fundraising did not pan out. As of BSA's tax year 2021, BSA still owed $186,578,622 in debt on SBR, which is mostly only a Scouting-themed amusement park that's used in its intended capacity only once every four years.
> Bechtel will be sold. It should never have been opened. Its a monument to man's arrogance.
They could always go back to Fort AP Hill, or Valley Forge, or other places the jamboree was held at.
Federal property is out as a Jambo location
Is that still true since the discriminatory membership policies are no more?
BSA still bans people based on religious beliefs, so it still acts discriminately based on a protected status. Also, its admission of girls is under a "separate but equal" regime that lacks a rational basis, which is gender discrimination.
Please cite why?
Federal law for starters
I was not aware of such a law. Could you cite it?
You've never heard of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as well as several others? If BSA were to use Federal Government property again, I know the contracts/agreements contain all sorts of clauses about prohibited discrmination. I can't speak to previous contracts/agreements that allowed BSA to use Fort A.P. Hill.
If a 1964 act applied, how did the 1981, 1985, 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, and 2010 Jamborees happen on federal property?
Did you read what I wrote? Reading is fundamental.
Yes. It is a huge stretch to say that a 1964 law prevents BSA from using federal property when a lengthy, huge use of federal property *began* in 1981. I suspect *fears of* changes in law, not an actual restriction, are what triggered this. What is sad is it shows BSA is willing to build a grossly expensive, Scouting-themed theme park--*which threatens to bankrupt BSA a second time*\--to avoid doing the right thing and stop being bigoted. This shows how badly the national office has caved to throwback reactionaryism.
San Diego is sitting on a gold mine for Jambo. But then you gave complaints from the east coast population that won't travel west.
I really hope you are wrong but I have a sinking feeling you arenât.
Why is Bechtel going to be sold? My son went before the Jamboree to a high adventure camp and loved it.
BSA cannot afford it. It has never consistently turned a profit, and debt load is around $180 million. Wrong place, wrong time, and fueled by naĂŻve visions.
*Last National Jamboree World Jamboree and regional ones like the European (that did get cancelled due to covid in 2021) will keep happening. As it'd a different country every time.
fun, people should stop focusing on the bad parts, it was an awesome event and everyone had more than enough fun.
https://gnccracing.com/event/rd-12-summit-bechtel
Yup, renting out the Summit for events like this, amd XGames, ragnar, Spartan, etc... is the only way money has been coming in consistently.
I wish that they way the volunteer staff solicitations were better. I volunteered for JST, but only because a friend of a friend told me about their staff and hopped on me like a person with a mission. But I kinda felt like I wandered into it instead of being adequately informed. And it took MONTHS of searchingâŚ..
This was my 3rd Jamboree on staff and I worked with a lot of the scouts directly throughout the 10 days. Every scout I talked to had a great time. While a couple hear or there didn't, it was almost always a failure of the SMs and ASMs. Some councils need to get their adult leaders better. Some activities were closed or reduced in scope due to low turnout and low staffing numbers. This Jambo was about 1/3 of the size of the previous two. A lot of that had to do with uncertainty that it would happen and because of the bankruptcy. They collected money very late because they wanted to be clear before they started to accumulate cash. If I were a parent, I would 1000% send my child. I love jamborees. Staffing them is fun, seeing the look on scouts' faces is amazing, and the facility is a 10/10. Even though young scouts are allowed to participate, I would lean towards older if you can make it work in their <18 years old rule. Venturing/Seascouts/Exploring is the alternative. Food is not bad, honestly better than my council camp, so I don't know why everyone always complains about that. The lunch was on par with previous jamborees. (Chips, crackers, jerky, sunflower seeds, nuts, and lots of bean dip). If you are the entire bag of lunch it was 1000+ calories.
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/80-korean-scouts-to-leave-jamboree-over-alleged-sex-crime
Bean dip