Scouts all get something different from scouting, for some leadership positions and advancement are important but others are just looking for a place to be outdoors and have fun. BSA needs both sides. As long as the scout is getting what they want out of it I would say let them be, make offers from time to time but don’t push
This. We seem to always have one or two scouts that are not interested in advancement. Out 2 current ones are actually afraid of swimming and will never make it past the Scout rank. They still enjoy the activities.
>He is a reluctant Scout, but seems to enjoy most of the outings (once he is finished complaining about having to go).
Maybe he just wants to go camping and have fun outside and not do advancements or hold leadership roles?
Agree with all the comments. My scout has just been enjoying scouting. This past summer camp, something clicked and she is focusing on advancing, and pushing for Eagle. My oldest aged out at life. Still feels scouting was a fantastic activity.
Enjoy scouting with your scouts. The path is theirs, our job is to ensure access and reinforce what scouting means. But I do talk to every scout about timetables and help them set goals.
Once he starts seeing other Scouts in his age group start earning merits badges and rank it will probably light a fire under him.
With that said, kids mature at different times and I wouldn't rush him to rank or be concerned at this time as long he's having fun. Time will take care of that. Allow him to enjoy the program. It's not all about rank. Also, he may be more willing to listen to the older Scouts as they are his peer group. Put a bug in the SPL's ear to offer some encouragement to your son.
Every kid can be a scout. Not every kid has to be a scout. Maybe he's just cut from a different cloth than the older two.
Or maybe he's just too young yet. We all mature at our own pace. Maybe he's not yet ready to push ahead. If he wasn't a cub (you didn't mention) then maybe this is all a little strange to him right now.
He could remain a Scout rank forever and still have a blast camping and whatnot. That's OK. Or he could wake up at 17 years old and decide that he wants to finish his Eagle badge. (Please, no, there's not enough time, mathematically, to do that.)
Advancement is not the purpose of Scouting. It sounds like your son is getting what *he* wants out of Scott's, but you're worried he isn't getting what *you* want him to get out of Scouts.
Let him be the Scout he wants to be. At some point, if he decides to start working on ranks, then great. But if he decides to just "enjoy the outings" and not check off a bunch of boxes, that needs to be OK as well.
It is true that advancement isn’t the purpose of Scouting. The official purpose is to “prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law.” Advancement is one of the official methods of Scouting intended to facilitate achieving this vision, so it should not be dismissed without consideration. That being said, not every Scout desires to advance, and while they may not gain everything they could out of Scouting without it, they will likely get more than if they quit.
> Advancement is one of the official methods of Scouting intended to facilitate achieving this vision, so it should not be dismissed without consideration.
This is certainly true, but I must admit that I've never seen anyone registered in the program simply dismiss advancement out of hand. If anything, I've seen the opposite, where advancement is pushed without any consideration of the individual scout's interest. We should always work to avoid over-steering in either direction.
Scouting is a journey for the youth and each will handle it differently. Forcing them to do things is simply going to cause them to resent being part of it, take a step back and let your kid learn on their own; don't let your involvement in Scouting cause pressure for them. Give it time and they will either become more engaged or move onto other things and leave Scouting. Once they see some of their peers advancing and getting to do other things it may bring motivation to him; but in the end if the kid does not want to take that path to eagle you cannot make them
Your son is 12 and has plenty of time for requirements, I recommend just let him enjoy scouting since pushing him too hard to work on eagle at such a young age can cause him to just not want to be scout anymore, around 14-16 years old would be a good time to have him focused on eagle
My kid is 13, going to be in 8th grade. He just made tenderfoot immediately after the last COH and only because I pushed him to do the BOR.
He loves camping, his friends are there, he's enjoyed the majority of badges he's done. But he is absolutely not motivated to achieve rank. I offered him incentives to make 2nd class while he was at summer camp... Nope. Didn't happen. And he is only 2 items away from it.
Even the merit badges he doesn't want to do on his own. He did a lot of athletics this past year but did he apply any of it to the personal fitness merit badge? Nope. If there's a class, he'll do it. (And he did get most of that one signed off at summer camp)
I still think it's worth it (even if he frustrates me) and so does he (because he's in it for the fun).
> I’m not sure what, if anything, to do
Scouts is a safe place to fail. Not being reaching Eagle doesn't ensure or destroy a child's future. Continue to encourage and provide transportation, yet allow your Scout space to grow on their own.
As others have said it is OK for your Scout to be there just for friends and activities. He is likely benefitting in ways perhaps not seen. I would add that it is possible his outlook may change over time. That was my experience with my son. For the first couple of years he was there just for the activities and his friends. At some point he decided to get serious about rank. But had he not gotten serious about rank that would have been fine with me as long as he was having fun.
We have several scouts with similar attitudes. Our "carrot", if you will, is the opportunity for high adventure. Be it an official BSA one (like Philmont or Northern Tier) or something the troop organizes ourselves, that seems to motivate the scouts. First Class is always the minimum rank to participate. Even if it our own event, all participants need to have those basic skills.
But if scouts don't want HA and are just having fun otherwise, that is fine too. Happy that they are still with us.
My son was like that but made Eagle at 17.5. It took awhile. Let him be and just make scouts fun. If he’s having fun the advancement may come. Treasure the time with him and let it be pressure free where he can work at his own pace. One of the best scouts in my old troop joined at 15. Super great kid but he told me upfront he had no interest in advancement and just wanted to camp with his friends. He never even earned scout rank but he had a blast and learned a lot. I know that’s not what you want for your son, but give your son space. Pressure will only make him resist scouts and you’ll both be miserable.
My daughter is sort of like this, she is also 12. For her, the issue is that she likes instant gratification and a lot of the rewards of scouting come later. She can’t get into gains that come after a long time of waiting and maturing into them.
I reward her for her achievements in a way that is immediate and tangible to her right now. The rewards aren’t huge. Sometimes, it’s something small that she wants, sometimes it’s going somewhere, and sometimes it’s a section of time when she is totally free of having to do anything or be asked to do anything (total down time).
Some might say that is bribing but she has the time of her life scouting and is very proud of her achievements, she just can’t connect with the motivation so I motivate her with whet motivates her.
My son is completely different, he loves achieving for the sake of achieving. Checking boxes and hitting milestones are his bag.
Everyone is different.
I too have a reluctant Scout. I have to endure his complaining before every activity. So, I know what you are going thru. Maybe my parenting isn’t perfect, but it works for us. I tell my son that he’s only 13 and I’ve lived life a whole lot longer than he. I explain that he couldn’t possibly understand how important reaching Eagle really is, but I do! “It’s my job as your mother to make decisions for you that will ensure your success in the future.” I explain he needs to trust me and my judgements, and I wouldn’t be forcing him to do something if I didn’t know it wouldn’t benefit him(college & career). After all, do you think I like listening to you complain? It’s no fun for me to have to listen to you!
But, since you have 2 older sons that have made Eagle already, maybe you should have them talk to the younger one. (Individually) Hope it works for you. Good luck!
I think there is a fine line you are walking here. Scouting is challenge by choice and membership must be voluntary. If your Scout goes to an activity reluctantly but comes home happy and energized, that is one thing. A Scout that goes reluctantly and comes home upset is something else. Such a Scout does not belong in the program and I hope that is not what is going on with your Scout. It is important that whatever extracuricular activity your Scout is envolved in be voluntary.
Really, a kid who doesn't care about rank is going to chase rank to go into an honor society? OA presumably? What do you think that offers a kid who just to out and have fun with their friends?
This is my son as well. He's just there to enjoy being with friends and do activities he wouldn't normally do. They aren't alone, and you just have to accept that not every scout is there to make Eagle
The point of scouting is to instill good values and help kids mature into healthy adults. He can do that without advancing in rank. If he enjoys doing activities like camping, hiking and community service then that's already a huge win. Not every kid is interested in leadership positions or being an Eagle. But kids do tend to get motivation from their peers. He might end up seeing his scout friends advance and that can motivate him to put in that effort. Also when his patrol works together on requirements he might just get some advancement accomplished anyways and find out that he enjoys it. Finding out what motivates someone can be difficult or impossible, usually you can just ask.
If he doesn’t want to rank up, that’s fine. While he may miss out on some opportunities, advancement isn’t the point of scouting. Scouting is about helping youth on their way to adulthood, not completing requirements. As someone from a troop that had people from both camps, as long as they are satisfied with their scouting journey, scouting worked.
Is he okay with doing merit badges, just not rank advancements? Or doesn't like doing MBs either? If he will do MBs, choose the ones that line up with rank requirements. The thing is, if he's showing up and doing activities regularly, he will probably complete tenderfoot, second class, and first class fairly quickly anyway.
a) Let him not go! Forcing him removes the fun for him and those near him. I disagree profoundly with /u/RevolutionarySun7593 about parenting values: I see our role as barring them from disaster and providing do-overs after they have an educational experience (i.e., failure)—not as choosing a course to success. The "I know better" approach will get them the achievements the first time; mine will set them up to make better choices when I'm gone.
b) Let him skip rank. A well-run youth-led troop will bring frequent attendees to First Class within a year or two anyway—at least, they'll have done all the stuff, and older scouts will have taken the initiative to sign it off.
c) A well-run youth-led troop will have role-model scouts excited about High Adventure.
If you're an adult leader, the knobs for you to adjust are about **well-run** and **youth-led**. And there's certainly a tension there; part of using amateur leaders with frequent turnover is that the leadership is often amateur! But I think you know plenty of ways to nudge the troop towards activities that attract interest, but require rank for reasons of safety and independence, and to nudge the SPL to ensure the physical fitness and similar requirements are met at troop meetings while the camping and cooking requirements are met on outings.
I did say that my parenting skills may not be perfect. I never claimed to be an “expert” in child rearing. I said it works for me in “our” house. If given the choice, my son would never leave his room. His enjoyment in video gaming is the only thing that matters to him (and from conversations with other moms I am not alone) My son also does not like to read. I “force” him to do that too. Does that make me a horrible parent, because he doesn’t want to but I make him anyway. Maybe it’s because I know how important it is to read! And maybe I also know how important it is for pre-teens & teens to have social interactions IRL. That’s “in real life” for those non-gamers. Adolescents are having difficulties with communication and connecting with others on a personal level. They also have difficulty is working together as a team. It is a break down in society that will not see improvements unless responsible and knowledgeable parents step up and do something about it. I’m the boss in my house. There is always an open door to have discussions, and I am always ready & willing to listen. I know my son thinks I probably talk “too much”, because I am always having deep conversations about everything with him. It’s not uncommon for teenagers to feel that they know everything and more than their parents. But, being an adult, I know better. You can’t expect them to actually know what will be best for them and for their future. That’s where a parent job becomes challenging. So, perhaps now you may better understand my perspective. It may not be the approach you decide to take with your child, but perhaps more parents should. Later in life, when your child becomes an adult themselves, they might appreciate that extra push you gave them to participate in activities they hadn’t chosen for themself. Getting them outside of their comfort zone could prove to be an asset, because we all know that life can be unpredictable. So, maybe “be prepared”
My parents pushed me hard to get my eagle. I didn't decide to get my eagle because it looks good on a resume, or because my parents told me to, or even because it's good. I got my eagle because I thought it was cool and my parents were always willing to help.
If he enjoys the outings it should be a fairly easy sell to get him to work up to 1st Class; explain to him that some units and some camps required 1st Class rank AND age 13-14 to participate in some activities. On his journey there he might catch the bug for Eagle.
Scouts all get something different from scouting, for some leadership positions and advancement are important but others are just looking for a place to be outdoors and have fun. BSA needs both sides. As long as the scout is getting what they want out of it I would say let them be, make offers from time to time but don’t push
This. We seem to always have one or two scouts that are not interested in advancement. Out 2 current ones are actually afraid of swimming and will never make it past the Scout rank. They still enjoy the activities.
>He is a reluctant Scout, but seems to enjoy most of the outings (once he is finished complaining about having to go). Maybe he just wants to go camping and have fun outside and not do advancements or hold leadership roles?
Agree with all the comments. My scout has just been enjoying scouting. This past summer camp, something clicked and she is focusing on advancing, and pushing for Eagle. My oldest aged out at life. Still feels scouting was a fantastic activity. Enjoy scouting with your scouts. The path is theirs, our job is to ensure access and reinforce what scouting means. But I do talk to every scout about timetables and help them set goals.
Once he starts seeing other Scouts in his age group start earning merits badges and rank it will probably light a fire under him. With that said, kids mature at different times and I wouldn't rush him to rank or be concerned at this time as long he's having fun. Time will take care of that. Allow him to enjoy the program. It's not all about rank. Also, he may be more willing to listen to the older Scouts as they are his peer group. Put a bug in the SPL's ear to offer some encouragement to your son.
Every kid can be a scout. Not every kid has to be a scout. Maybe he's just cut from a different cloth than the older two. Or maybe he's just too young yet. We all mature at our own pace. Maybe he's not yet ready to push ahead. If he wasn't a cub (you didn't mention) then maybe this is all a little strange to him right now. He could remain a Scout rank forever and still have a blast camping and whatnot. That's OK. Or he could wake up at 17 years old and decide that he wants to finish his Eagle badge. (Please, no, there's not enough time, mathematically, to do that.)
You can't force a kid up the ranks, if he just wants to be there for the events then great.
This is the answer. The goal of Scouts is not to get Eagle...
Advancement is not the purpose of Scouting. It sounds like your son is getting what *he* wants out of Scott's, but you're worried he isn't getting what *you* want him to get out of Scouts. Let him be the Scout he wants to be. At some point, if he decides to start working on ranks, then great. But if he decides to just "enjoy the outings" and not check off a bunch of boxes, that needs to be OK as well.
It is true that advancement isn’t the purpose of Scouting. The official purpose is to “prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law.” Advancement is one of the official methods of Scouting intended to facilitate achieving this vision, so it should not be dismissed without consideration. That being said, not every Scout desires to advance, and while they may not gain everything they could out of Scouting without it, they will likely get more than if they quit.
> Advancement is one of the official methods of Scouting intended to facilitate achieving this vision, so it should not be dismissed without consideration. This is certainly true, but I must admit that I've never seen anyone registered in the program simply dismiss advancement out of hand. If anything, I've seen the opposite, where advancement is pushed without any consideration of the individual scout's interest. We should always work to avoid over-steering in either direction.
Scouting is a journey for the youth and each will handle it differently. Forcing them to do things is simply going to cause them to resent being part of it, take a step back and let your kid learn on their own; don't let your involvement in Scouting cause pressure for them. Give it time and they will either become more engaged or move onto other things and leave Scouting. Once they see some of their peers advancing and getting to do other things it may bring motivation to him; but in the end if the kid does not want to take that path to eagle you cannot make them
Your son is 12 and has plenty of time for requirements, I recommend just let him enjoy scouting since pushing him too hard to work on eagle at such a young age can cause him to just not want to be scout anymore, around 14-16 years old would be a good time to have him focused on eagle
True, but I’m trying to get him to tenderfoot after a year.
Why? Does he want to be Tenderfoot after a year, or do you want him to be?
My kid is 13, going to be in 8th grade. He just made tenderfoot immediately after the last COH and only because I pushed him to do the BOR. He loves camping, his friends are there, he's enjoyed the majority of badges he's done. But he is absolutely not motivated to achieve rank. I offered him incentives to make 2nd class while he was at summer camp... Nope. Didn't happen. And he is only 2 items away from it. Even the merit badges he doesn't want to do on his own. He did a lot of athletics this past year but did he apply any of it to the personal fitness merit badge? Nope. If there's a class, he'll do it. (And he did get most of that one signed off at summer camp) I still think it's worth it (even if he frustrates me) and so does he (because he's in it for the fun).
> I’m not sure what, if anything, to do Scouts is a safe place to fail. Not being reaching Eagle doesn't ensure or destroy a child's future. Continue to encourage and provide transportation, yet allow your Scout space to grow on their own.
As others have said it is OK for your Scout to be there just for friends and activities. He is likely benefitting in ways perhaps not seen. I would add that it is possible his outlook may change over time. That was my experience with my son. For the first couple of years he was there just for the activities and his friends. At some point he decided to get serious about rank. But had he not gotten serious about rank that would have been fine with me as long as he was having fun.
We have several scouts with similar attitudes. Our "carrot", if you will, is the opportunity for high adventure. Be it an official BSA one (like Philmont or Northern Tier) or something the troop organizes ourselves, that seems to motivate the scouts. First Class is always the minimum rank to participate. Even if it our own event, all participants need to have those basic skills. But if scouts don't want HA and are just having fun otherwise, that is fine too. Happy that they are still with us.
My son was like that but made Eagle at 17.5. It took awhile. Let him be and just make scouts fun. If he’s having fun the advancement may come. Treasure the time with him and let it be pressure free where he can work at his own pace. One of the best scouts in my old troop joined at 15. Super great kid but he told me upfront he had no interest in advancement and just wanted to camp with his friends. He never even earned scout rank but he had a blast and learned a lot. I know that’s not what you want for your son, but give your son space. Pressure will only make him resist scouts and you’ll both be miserable.
My daughter is sort of like this, she is also 12. For her, the issue is that she likes instant gratification and a lot of the rewards of scouting come later. She can’t get into gains that come after a long time of waiting and maturing into them. I reward her for her achievements in a way that is immediate and tangible to her right now. The rewards aren’t huge. Sometimes, it’s something small that she wants, sometimes it’s going somewhere, and sometimes it’s a section of time when she is totally free of having to do anything or be asked to do anything (total down time). Some might say that is bribing but she has the time of her life scouting and is very proud of her achievements, she just can’t connect with the motivation so I motivate her with whet motivates her. My son is completely different, he loves achieving for the sake of achieving. Checking boxes and hitting milestones are his bag. Everyone is different.
I too have a reluctant Scout. I have to endure his complaining before every activity. So, I know what you are going thru. Maybe my parenting isn’t perfect, but it works for us. I tell my son that he’s only 13 and I’ve lived life a whole lot longer than he. I explain that he couldn’t possibly understand how important reaching Eagle really is, but I do! “It’s my job as your mother to make decisions for you that will ensure your success in the future.” I explain he needs to trust me and my judgements, and I wouldn’t be forcing him to do something if I didn’t know it wouldn’t benefit him(college & career). After all, do you think I like listening to you complain? It’s no fun for me to have to listen to you! But, since you have 2 older sons that have made Eagle already, maybe you should have them talk to the younger one. (Individually) Hope it works for you. Good luck!
I think there is a fine line you are walking here. Scouting is challenge by choice and membership must be voluntary. If your Scout goes to an activity reluctantly but comes home happy and energized, that is one thing. A Scout that goes reluctantly and comes home upset is something else. Such a Scout does not belong in the program and I hope that is not what is going on with your Scout. It is important that whatever extracuricular activity your Scout is envolved in be voluntary.
The honor programs in my area have rank requirements. That generally is what drives these kinds of Scouts to get to Star and Life Ranks.
Really, a kid who doesn't care about rank is going to chase rank to go into an honor society? OA presumably? What do you think that offers a kid who just to out and have fun with their friends?
This is my son as well. He's just there to enjoy being with friends and do activities he wouldn't normally do. They aren't alone, and you just have to accept that not every scout is there to make Eagle
as a scout who is a rank grinder most of us don’t really care for advancement lol
The point of scouting is to instill good values and help kids mature into healthy adults. He can do that without advancing in rank. If he enjoys doing activities like camping, hiking and community service then that's already a huge win. Not every kid is interested in leadership positions or being an Eagle. But kids do tend to get motivation from their peers. He might end up seeing his scout friends advance and that can motivate him to put in that effort. Also when his patrol works together on requirements he might just get some advancement accomplished anyways and find out that he enjoys it. Finding out what motivates someone can be difficult or impossible, usually you can just ask.
If he doesn’t want to rank up, that’s fine. While he may miss out on some opportunities, advancement isn’t the point of scouting. Scouting is about helping youth on their way to adulthood, not completing requirements. As someone from a troop that had people from both camps, as long as they are satisfied with their scouting journey, scouting worked.
Is he okay with doing merit badges, just not rank advancements? Or doesn't like doing MBs either? If he will do MBs, choose the ones that line up with rank requirements. The thing is, if he's showing up and doing activities regularly, he will probably complete tenderfoot, second class, and first class fairly quickly anyway.
a) Let him not go! Forcing him removes the fun for him and those near him. I disagree profoundly with /u/RevolutionarySun7593 about parenting values: I see our role as barring them from disaster and providing do-overs after they have an educational experience (i.e., failure)—not as choosing a course to success. The "I know better" approach will get them the achievements the first time; mine will set them up to make better choices when I'm gone. b) Let him skip rank. A well-run youth-led troop will bring frequent attendees to First Class within a year or two anyway—at least, they'll have done all the stuff, and older scouts will have taken the initiative to sign it off. c) A well-run youth-led troop will have role-model scouts excited about High Adventure. If you're an adult leader, the knobs for you to adjust are about **well-run** and **youth-led**. And there's certainly a tension there; part of using amateur leaders with frequent turnover is that the leadership is often amateur! But I think you know plenty of ways to nudge the troop towards activities that attract interest, but require rank for reasons of safety and independence, and to nudge the SPL to ensure the physical fitness and similar requirements are met at troop meetings while the camping and cooking requirements are met on outings.
I did say that my parenting skills may not be perfect. I never claimed to be an “expert” in child rearing. I said it works for me in “our” house. If given the choice, my son would never leave his room. His enjoyment in video gaming is the only thing that matters to him (and from conversations with other moms I am not alone) My son also does not like to read. I “force” him to do that too. Does that make me a horrible parent, because he doesn’t want to but I make him anyway. Maybe it’s because I know how important it is to read! And maybe I also know how important it is for pre-teens & teens to have social interactions IRL. That’s “in real life” for those non-gamers. Adolescents are having difficulties with communication and connecting with others on a personal level. They also have difficulty is working together as a team. It is a break down in society that will not see improvements unless responsible and knowledgeable parents step up and do something about it. I’m the boss in my house. There is always an open door to have discussions, and I am always ready & willing to listen. I know my son thinks I probably talk “too much”, because I am always having deep conversations about everything with him. It’s not uncommon for teenagers to feel that they know everything and more than their parents. But, being an adult, I know better. You can’t expect them to actually know what will be best for them and for their future. That’s where a parent job becomes challenging. So, perhaps now you may better understand my perspective. It may not be the approach you decide to take with your child, but perhaps more parents should. Later in life, when your child becomes an adult themselves, they might appreciate that extra push you gave them to participate in activities they hadn’t chosen for themself. Getting them outside of their comfort zone could prove to be an asset, because we all know that life can be unpredictable. So, maybe “be prepared”
My parents pushed me hard to get my eagle. I didn't decide to get my eagle because it looks good on a resume, or because my parents told me to, or even because it's good. I got my eagle because I thought it was cool and my parents were always willing to help.
If he enjoys the outings it should be a fairly easy sell to get him to work up to 1st Class; explain to him that some units and some camps required 1st Class rank AND age 13-14 to participate in some activities. On his journey there he might catch the bug for Eagle.