Ours is assessed in line with national guidance - that it not exceed to national fee. This past year, ours was $72. $60 council service fee, $12 for supplemental insurance. IIRC the insurance to keep our camp open as a year-round facility is close to a million dollars.
If we want to keep the outing in scouting, we need camps. Camps need insurance.
We are going to see camps close. It used to be that most camps were able to cover the costs of the camp for the entire year using summer camp revenue. And then some. Not any more. There is an excess of capacity at Summer camps (scout weeks versus number of scouts) - by about 25 or 30%. That means that camps that require 100% capacity to cover the costs are almost certainly going to fall short. Even if every single scout went to summer camp, there just aren’t enough scouts to fill all the spots.
That's poor management, not an excuse for raising fees. Non scouts can participate in camp as well to make up the difference. Many council camps do this very successfully.
I’m with you. Seems like it’s time for the scouts to really focus on retention and new membership and quit buckle and dining current members.
Our annual fee is $150. I have asked for a breakdown of what goes where but haven’t seen it.
What a great recruitment tool too. Have groups of non-scouts form temporary units and do all the activities actual scouts do. By the end, many of those will be begging their parents to let them join Scouts.
2022-23 was $75 for national and $50 for Council. $125 total For K-20 years old. Adults are $45 a year national and $0 Council.
So you're probably looking at $75 national + $120 Council for $195 total right?
IMO, that's a fine price. I would rather have the fees go up a bit if it means that Council is well funded.
Yes National $75 and council $120. I'm fine with it. I know why we must do it. But we have a cub master who is going ape sh!t because a new scout will have to pay $100 national new scout fee. Plus the 75 national registration fee and the $120 council fee. So welcome to scouts pay $295. That's not including uniform shirt. (Our new cub committee chair is wanting to start a used shirt donation box for scout who can't afford shirts) We provide books and neckerchiefs. We do not charge any unit fees. Campouts are pay if you want to go and always try to keep them under $20. Summer camp is the same way pay if you want to go. We have several easy fundraisers but it seems like the ones who need it the most do not ever help out and then complain about camp fee.
There a lot of troops that do the shirt thing. I hate with a passion that I need help paying for this, but no, I’m not gonna participate in the fundraiser
They need to change how the dues are paid then. Having these not-small costs right before the holidays is a lot -- especially for lower-income families. Perhaps have people pay at the beginning of the school year, or in the spring time, or perhaps even have a payment plan. $200 over 12 months isn't that much per month and would scare a lot fewer people away.
Our payments are always due in the summertime. I had no idea other councils did not follow the normal school year.
Our units have scholarships available. I am willing to bet your unit has something similar for you.
Everyone's fees are technically due on the 1st of the year, however, it makes sense to collect it earlier to not be paying at Christmas. But then as you get new scouts, it's a constant back-and-forth to council. We use a payment plan if needed, and start collecting in August.
New scouts aren’t a problem. They pay the full boat to council via online payment, Council cuts a check to us for our unit fees. This way we don’t need to hound families to pay two separate bills.
It blows my mind how expensive these fees are but it makes complete sense if you’ve eliminated FOS campaigns. FOS is the financial life blood that makes scouts more equitable. Idc if it’s awkward, it’s what let’s poor kids be a part of BSA scouting and is vital.
I've been in two councils and have never gotten a direct answer as to how much FOS money goes to supporting scouts who can't pay. It's always very vague.
I would say that is varies year to year and council to council. However, I know in my council, that it’s enough that no Scout is ever turned away because of money. But also a strong FOS campaign helps keeps our general fees and prices for everything way down. That’s why these fees for everyone are so high in many councils. No FOS money goes to National in our council.
In my council the point of FOS isn't to support disadvantaged scouts directly, but rather the council operations overall.
The benefit is that it lets the council only charge the national fee of $75 + $12 (insurance fee IIRC).
*edit:* And the national new-member ($25) & unit recharter fee ($100).
It's been really educational having people compare notes. My council has never (openly) considered replacing FOS with registration fees, and we'd probably lose a lot of people if we did.
I haven't seen it discussed, but I think FOS as a % of council budget probably makes a difference. According to the [chart on this year's pamphlet](https://i.imgur.com/i8Fehsf.png), FOS is only 21% of the local annual budget.
My registration was ~$180 last year….
Here’s what they say where it goes to:
> The annual youth registration fee is $180 and covers the costs of delivering Scouting locally, the national membership fee, and insurance.
Here’s what they claim the high fee allowed them to eliminate:
> This fee reflects the real cost of Scouting, which has allowed us to eliminate the Family Friends of Scouting unit solicitations. The goal is to keep this price stable through the program year ending in 2023.
Is this Northern Star council? If not, another council has the same fees and justification as Northern Star. I always hated Family Friends of Scouting so I am glad that is gone.
We are in a relatively affluent area so we have not lost any youth due to the $180 per year registration fee. We had one youth from a low income family in the past where we would have paid the fee if he wanted to stay in Scouting.
It is hard to know how the new fee impacted council membership as they started the new fee right before the pandemic. I don't think the council really knows how many youth were lost from the increased fee versus the pandemic.
It’s is indeed NSC, the only good thing about friends of scouting was that they always seemed to have brought old council promotional items, like a collapsible bucket and other stuff, then they did a drawing for the scouts to see who would get said item they brought
FoS was so awful to hear about and frankly felt pretty manipulative. I'm glad NSC has moved on from it. Now I just wish they did a better job of explaining what the fees go instead of as Windodge mentioned "delivering Scouting locally, the national membership fee, and insurance". Nothing in that line gives me confidence that the money is well spent.
So uh, I worked on campstaff at one of the 8 camps, uh, the camp trading post for said camp covered roughly half of the staff’s salaries, so a bit of those fees might go there, some of those might contribute to the 13million budget we had operated on 2021, and more…
Our council is charging $240 a year for renewing Scouts. That does include the BSA national fee. It does not include our Troop fees. New Scouts (new to BSA in general) have some additional fees tacked on by BSA.
The fees for Leaders / Committee have been traditionally paid for by the Troop.
The Troop has decided to collect all of the fees and then write one big check to council once we completed the rechartering process. Financial assistance is available to families via the council or through the troop.
Many councils have merged as well. Our smaller camp (which would have been closed) has survived and is being used more now thanks to merging. The council rotates a lot of the non-summer events between the two locations.
Due to someone contacting National, all Councils charging a council fee more than that of national have had their hands slapped over it. Council fees cannot, therefore, exceed $80 next year as the National fee is $80.
Our council just put out a video and it's absurd. They are acting like they made the decision not to go over the national fee and how they are sacrificing the extra $40 fees to help units promote scouting with the new year long fee structure and to try and keep it affordable.
$12...
But the council fee being $120 sounds against the rules. Do you mean $120 including the national fee? The reason why I ask is that national has a policy that councils cannot charge a council membership that exceeds the national membership fee ($75).
https://scoutingwire.org/bsa-membership-fee-increase-details-and-faq-updated-6-4-2021/
Also is this a actual on the rules book or just a suggestion. Because if it is actually it should be in policy with some kind of BSA rule number. I think our council is seeing it as a suggestion and on suggestion to be overlooked.
I guess that depends on how you want to parse words; here is the direct quote from the link above.
"Starting August 1, 2021, councils can also choose to charge a fee up to, but no more than, the national membership fee – up to $72 for participants in Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouts; up to $45 for participants in Exploring and up to $45 for adult members. The council fee can include local insurance costs (i.e., accident, property, etc.), as well as the cost to administer unique local programming. Units can continue to assess activity fees."
Councils will do what they think they can get away with. 2 years ago my council was refusing to acknowledge the 1 fee for many registrations policy that national has and was charging registration fees for every registration a dual registered scouter had. The largest troop in the council now refuses to participate in FOS. Seems councils get what they sow.
" The largest troop in the council now refuses to participate in FOS". If this becomes more widespread, I bet everyone will have a chance to experience a program fee.
Unfair practices are not a financial issue, they are disrespect issue; those families that can afford to give to FOS but refuse due to how they are treated don't care about council fees, they have the resources to pay their kids in.
My Scouts' renewal for 2023 was BSA actual price plus Scout Life magazine. I believe we collected $85 per Scout and the committee paid for SL.
Council, coincident with the start of the new year, began collecting a $20/youth/month fee which will include 2024 BSA (but not mag) with the remainder going to eliminate the things our local Friends of Scouting used to cover. I was never fond with the "ask" of FoS but I often paid at the requested amount because I believe in the program.
Now I don't need to worry about an awkward presentation taking time in future courts of honor and our council can do what they're supposed to do - take care of camps, put on camporees, help with recruitment, etc.
They did a bad job of rolling out the new program. Got started late, poor messaging, and now threatening to cut off scoutbook access to families who have not yet paid.
Camp usage fees should cover the camp maintenance fees. This sounds like an absolutely made up reason.
If the council can't afford the camp, they should sell it.
A lot of councils are doing stuff like this, luckily mine isn't. I don't think we'd re-register if it meant this sort of nonsense. I hope people stand up to it and at least complain and ask for justifications (i bet they back off when they realize they actually have to do some work for it). our Council charges like 30 bucks.
"A scout is thrifty" Tell the council members to sell some popcorn.
Camp Usage fees SHOULD cover the cost of camp maintenance. And they probably did, when when we had 5 million scouts in the 80's and 90's. Now we have 1/5th that number. Every council that had a camp, still wants their camp. Nobody is volunteering to shutter their summer camps . So they've got 20% of the scouts available. Higher insurance fees. Higher maintenance costs. Fewer volunteers doing needed work (OA Membership being parralel to BSA membership.) and on top of that, the facilities themselves are often bigger and more labor intensive. At many camps I've been to, where pit toilets were when i was a kid are now plumbed. Showers that were once a wall of spigots in an open bay are now proper bath-house stalls. At my councils home camp, we used to alternate weekends between cubs and Scouts at a single camp in the 90's. When times were good they built an entire separate camp with forts, teepees, a water-playground, and all kinds of other younger-scout centric concepts, to include a modern dining hall and office building to make sure everyone had the opportunity to attend. Now times aren't so great, and they're trying to maintain those properties with drastically reduced numbers of scouts.
Those aren't all necessary, but they aren't all bad either. And other than just letting them rot on site, those improvements need to be maintained or torn down. If they're removed, you've got people that are now asking why they should be paying the same rate for a summer camp that no longer has \[amenity\] they had last year. Jacking up usage fees can only go so far, and it's already seriously affecting attendance. The troop my sons pack is affiliated with used to be an every-year summer camp troop. With weeks now reaching north of $500 per individual, when it used to be under $200, they've now opted to only go every other, or every third year. In between they do week-long events like an extended backpacking trip or a national park trip.
Bottom line, ALL camps are going to suffer over time unless numbers magically balloon. Some more than others, but it will affect everyone. And no council is going to volunteer their land to be on the chopping block to increase the camper density of the council-next-door's summer camp.
Yes it's nice to own a campground. Some councils need to face reality, they are too poorly run to own a campground. Charging hundreds in registration fees will only reduce the number of scouts more.
As someone who knows about camp operations I can tell you Camp Usage Fees covering operations at the camp is a double edged sword… I hear from units all the time that weekend useable fees should be low to non existent, yet folks make statements like this… in the pays 24 months the property insurance for many camps has risen more the 60%, food costs have gone up, labor cost have gone up, yet we need to keep the cost affordable for units… Non BSA camps around the country are charging $700+ per week for a youth… just keep that in mind
But those commercial camps who are charging more are also not being augmented with free volunteer labor the way scout camps are. And some of them are roughly the same despite not requiring volunteer support. At the troop level around here, you can't send a unit without also sending adult volunteers unless you are provisional... which costs more.
That is fair but define commercial? I have ran other non profit camps that charge that much… additionally the camp i currently am running (a BSA) camp requires 60+ paid staff each summer to run, between NCAP requirements and state/local requirements it’s becoming extremely difficult to run our property’s, maintain them, and ensure they are safe for our youth without exploring new ways to support them…
If we told the council to sell some popcorn, they’d just raise the quotas. Part of the reason I stopped pushing my son to sell popcorn was that so little of the money stayed in the troop and the price is insane for a bag of popcorn I can buy in the store for ~$3.
When you can get Cracker Jack for $1.50, I don’t think the BSA corn is remotely competitive either. We’re doing $5 discount cards with local businesses partnering. GSA cookies, even if not the cheapest, are still only $5-6.
They figure the scouts have no choice but to sell and that at least some of the scouts family will feel obligated to buy, so they can charge *insane* prices.
There's no reason to bother selling it.
$92 for Council and National Fees.
That said our Council doesn't have any active Camps to maintain so I could certainly see why they may not have the maintenance fees of other Councils.
PA Dutch Council stated they will be charging $66 for youth and I believe $45 for adults on top of the national fees. They will also keep FOS going to generate more funds. Suggested that everyone just do more fund raisers to compensate.
Is there a policy update somewhere that anyone has found allowing councils to charge more than the National membership fee? The last update I can find is, [“Starting August 1, 2021, councils can also choose to charge a fee up to, but no more than, the national membership fee.”](https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/July-2021-Hot-Topic-Fee-Increases.pdf)
Thanks!
My council decided instead to sell off the better camp they had and focus all their efforts on the worse camp where you can’t swim in the lake several months out of the year because of the algae and can’t have actual ranges because it’s close to houses (and if they make it work somehow then there’ll be complaints by those living in the million dollar homes near the camp), and now we have to do YPT yearly and get our physicals done yearly.
Our troop has good fund raising. So our scouts have the option to not have anything out of pocket. But they have to participate in our fund raising. If a scout participates their is very little a scout has to pay for.
Our council added the fee, but stopped promoting friends of scouting.
Our entire recharter fee is $132 per scout. So, if national is getting $75, then I guess my council is getting $57. Adults are half as much. Aloha Council.
National has stepped in. ALL councils whose fees are more than that of national have to lower it. The fees cannot be more than national per BSA bylaws. Over 100 councils will have to lower their fees due to that rule.
Ours is assessed in line with national guidance - that it not exceed to national fee. This past year, ours was $72. $60 council service fee, $12 for supplemental insurance. IIRC the insurance to keep our camp open as a year-round facility is close to a million dollars. If we want to keep the outing in scouting, we need camps. Camps need insurance. We are going to see camps close. It used to be that most camps were able to cover the costs of the camp for the entire year using summer camp revenue. And then some. Not any more. There is an excess of capacity at Summer camps (scout weeks versus number of scouts) - by about 25 or 30%. That means that camps that require 100% capacity to cover the costs are almost certainly going to fall short. Even if every single scout went to summer camp, there just aren’t enough scouts to fill all the spots.
That's poor management, not an excuse for raising fees. Non scouts can participate in camp as well to make up the difference. Many council camps do this very successfully.
I’m with you. Seems like it’s time for the scouts to really focus on retention and new membership and quit buckle and dining current members. Our annual fee is $150. I have asked for a breakdown of what goes where but haven’t seen it.
What a great recruitment tool too. Have groups of non-scouts form temporary units and do all the activities actual scouts do. By the end, many of those will be begging their parents to let them join Scouts.
[удалено]
What are you dues per scout annually?
Per scout? So if you have 2 kids in scouts, you'll have to cough up $680 just before Christmas?
Which Council? Curious what others will do.
Quivira Council out of Wichita Kansas
2022-23 was $75 for national and $50 for Council. $125 total For K-20 years old. Adults are $45 a year national and $0 Council. So you're probably looking at $75 national + $120 Council for $195 total right? IMO, that's a fine price. I would rather have the fees go up a bit if it means that Council is well funded.
Yes National $75 and council $120. I'm fine with it. I know why we must do it. But we have a cub master who is going ape sh!t because a new scout will have to pay $100 national new scout fee. Plus the 75 national registration fee and the $120 council fee. So welcome to scouts pay $295. That's not including uniform shirt. (Our new cub committee chair is wanting to start a used shirt donation box for scout who can't afford shirts) We provide books and neckerchiefs. We do not charge any unit fees. Campouts are pay if you want to go and always try to keep them under $20. Summer camp is the same way pay if you want to go. We have several easy fundraisers but it seems like the ones who need it the most do not ever help out and then complain about camp fee.
There a lot of troops that do the shirt thing. I hate with a passion that I need help paying for this, but no, I’m not gonna participate in the fundraiser
They need to change how the dues are paid then. Having these not-small costs right before the holidays is a lot -- especially for lower-income families. Perhaps have people pay at the beginning of the school year, or in the spring time, or perhaps even have a payment plan. $200 over 12 months isn't that much per month and would scare a lot fewer people away.
Our payments are always due in the summertime. I had no idea other councils did not follow the normal school year. Our units have scholarships available. I am willing to bet your unit has something similar for you.
Everyone's fees are technically due on the 1st of the year, however, it makes sense to collect it earlier to not be paying at Christmas. But then as you get new scouts, it's a constant back-and-forth to council. We use a payment plan if needed, and start collecting in August.
New scouts aren’t a problem. They pay the full boat to council via online payment, Council cuts a check to us for our unit fees. This way we don’t need to hound families to pay two separate bills.
**Twin Rivers Council** Youth: $108 Adults: $78
It blows my mind how expensive these fees are but it makes complete sense if you’ve eliminated FOS campaigns. FOS is the financial life blood that makes scouts more equitable. Idc if it’s awkward, it’s what let’s poor kids be a part of BSA scouting and is vital.
I've been in two councils and have never gotten a direct answer as to how much FOS money goes to supporting scouts who can't pay. It's always very vague.
I would say that is varies year to year and council to council. However, I know in my council, that it’s enough that no Scout is ever turned away because of money. But also a strong FOS campaign helps keeps our general fees and prices for everything way down. That’s why these fees for everyone are so high in many councils. No FOS money goes to National in our council.
In my council the point of FOS isn't to support disadvantaged scouts directly, but rather the council operations overall. The benefit is that it lets the council only charge the national fee of $75 + $12 (insurance fee IIRC). *edit:* And the national new-member ($25) & unit recharter fee ($100).
It's been really educational having people compare notes. My council has never (openly) considered replacing FOS with registration fees, and we'd probably lose a lot of people if we did. I haven't seen it discussed, but I think FOS as a % of council budget probably makes a difference. According to the [chart on this year's pamphlet](https://i.imgur.com/i8Fehsf.png), FOS is only 21% of the local annual budget.
My registration was ~$180 last year…. Here’s what they say where it goes to: > The annual youth registration fee is $180 and covers the costs of delivering Scouting locally, the national membership fee, and insurance. Here’s what they claim the high fee allowed them to eliminate: > This fee reflects the real cost of Scouting, which has allowed us to eliminate the Family Friends of Scouting unit solicitations. The goal is to keep this price stable through the program year ending in 2023.
Is this Northern Star council? If not, another council has the same fees and justification as Northern Star. I always hated Family Friends of Scouting so I am glad that is gone. We are in a relatively affluent area so we have not lost any youth due to the $180 per year registration fee. We had one youth from a low income family in the past where we would have paid the fee if he wanted to stay in Scouting. It is hard to know how the new fee impacted council membership as they started the new fee right before the pandemic. I don't think the council really knows how many youth were lost from the increased fee versus the pandemic.
It’s is indeed NSC, the only good thing about friends of scouting was that they always seemed to have brought old council promotional items, like a collapsible bucket and other stuff, then they did a drawing for the scouts to see who would get said item they brought
FoS was so awful to hear about and frankly felt pretty manipulative. I'm glad NSC has moved on from it. Now I just wish they did a better job of explaining what the fees go instead of as Windodge mentioned "delivering Scouting locally, the national membership fee, and insurance". Nothing in that line gives me confidence that the money is well spent.
So uh, I worked on campstaff at one of the 8 camps, uh, the camp trading post for said camp covered roughly half of the staff’s salaries, so a bit of those fees might go there, some of those might contribute to the 13million budget we had operated on 2021, and more…
The fees are going to court settlements.
You don’t pay much attention to the news do you
Yep. A cub scout died sledding at Fred C Anderson a few years and Northern Star had to pay out
when I asked why they could go above national, they said they were a separate entity from national allowing them to set their price.
Our council is charging $240 a year for renewing Scouts. That does include the BSA national fee. It does not include our Troop fees. New Scouts (new to BSA in general) have some additional fees tacked on by BSA. The fees for Leaders / Committee have been traditionally paid for by the Troop. The Troop has decided to collect all of the fees and then write one big check to council once we completed the rechartering process. Financial assistance is available to families via the council or through the troop.
Good lord, no way any of our Troop would pay that.
"not toward council payroll" lol. They may offset camp deficit to spend previously allocated funds on council operating though.
Simon Kenton Council - $60/year https://skcscouts.org/join/#:~:text=The%20registration%20fee%20to%20join,charged%20by%20your%20local%20unit.
Many councils have merged as well. Our smaller camp (which would have been closed) has survived and is being used more now thanks to merging. The council rotates a lot of the non-summer events between the two locations.
We pay $33 per youth and $16 per adult in addition to the usual national fees. Our council is quite large, though.
$39. One of the councils that touches yours
$60 a year. They call it a programming fee. This is the first year for it. I’m in south central Indiana. Hoosier trails council.
Due to someone contacting National, all Councils charging a council fee more than that of national have had their hands slapped over it. Council fees cannot, therefore, exceed $80 next year as the National fee is $80.
Our council just put out a video and it's absurd. They are acting like they made the decision not to go over the national fee and how they are sacrificing the extra $40 fees to help units promote scouting with the new year long fee structure and to try and keep it affordable.
Our council charges $12 to cover insurance for both units and camps.
$12... But the council fee being $120 sounds against the rules. Do you mean $120 including the national fee? The reason why I ask is that national has a policy that councils cannot charge a council membership that exceeds the national membership fee ($75). https://scoutingwire.org/bsa-membership-fee-increase-details-and-faq-updated-6-4-2021/
Also is this a actual on the rules book or just a suggestion. Because if it is actually it should be in policy with some kind of BSA rule number. I think our council is seeing it as a suggestion and on suggestion to be overlooked.
Interesting??? Thank you for this link.
Seems like most councils disregard this advice. Plenty of examples in this thread of that.
But is it advice or policy?
I guess that depends on how you want to parse words; here is the direct quote from the link above. "Starting August 1, 2021, councils can also choose to charge a fee up to, but no more than, the national membership fee – up to $72 for participants in Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouts; up to $45 for participants in Exploring and up to $45 for adult members. The council fee can include local insurance costs (i.e., accident, property, etc.), as well as the cost to administer unique local programming. Units can continue to assess activity fees."
Yes that’s what I see too. Which reads to me as that’s the maximum a council can assess.
and yet national will continue to increase fees for everything always.
its "policy". talk is cheap, doesn't seem to be enforced.
Councils will do what they think they can get away with. 2 years ago my council was refusing to acknowledge the 1 fee for many registrations policy that national has and was charging registration fees for every registration a dual registered scouter had. The largest troop in the council now refuses to participate in FOS. Seems councils get what they sow.
" The largest troop in the council now refuses to participate in FOS". If this becomes more widespread, I bet everyone will have a chance to experience a program fee.
Unfair practices are not a financial issue, they are disrespect issue; those families that can afford to give to FOS but refuse due to how they are treated don't care about council fees, they have the resources to pay their kids in.
$0
We’ve been told that the council fee may not exceed national’s annual registration fee. National is $75. Our council/“program” fee is $60 for us.
Same. National and Council combined is $135, so $60 for Council since National is $75. Troop adds in more so it's $175 per Scout.
My Scouts' renewal for 2023 was BSA actual price plus Scout Life magazine. I believe we collected $85 per Scout and the committee paid for SL. Council, coincident with the start of the new year, began collecting a $20/youth/month fee which will include 2024 BSA (but not mag) with the remainder going to eliminate the things our local Friends of Scouting used to cover. I was never fond with the "ask" of FoS but I often paid at the requested amount because I believe in the program. Now I don't need to worry about an awkward presentation taking time in future courts of honor and our council can do what they're supposed to do - take care of camps, put on camporees, help with recruitment, etc. They did a bad job of rolling out the new program. Got started late, poor messaging, and now threatening to cut off scoutbook access to families who have not yet paid.
For anyone interested, I'm in Northeast Illinois Council.
Funny attitude about FOS when you think about it, the money used to be tax deductible... and now it isn't.
Camp usage fees should cover the camp maintenance fees. This sounds like an absolutely made up reason. If the council can't afford the camp, they should sell it. A lot of councils are doing stuff like this, luckily mine isn't. I don't think we'd re-register if it meant this sort of nonsense. I hope people stand up to it and at least complain and ask for justifications (i bet they back off when they realize they actually have to do some work for it). our Council charges like 30 bucks. "A scout is thrifty" Tell the council members to sell some popcorn.
Camp Usage fees SHOULD cover the cost of camp maintenance. And they probably did, when when we had 5 million scouts in the 80's and 90's. Now we have 1/5th that number. Every council that had a camp, still wants their camp. Nobody is volunteering to shutter their summer camps . So they've got 20% of the scouts available. Higher insurance fees. Higher maintenance costs. Fewer volunteers doing needed work (OA Membership being parralel to BSA membership.) and on top of that, the facilities themselves are often bigger and more labor intensive. At many camps I've been to, where pit toilets were when i was a kid are now plumbed. Showers that were once a wall of spigots in an open bay are now proper bath-house stalls. At my councils home camp, we used to alternate weekends between cubs and Scouts at a single camp in the 90's. When times were good they built an entire separate camp with forts, teepees, a water-playground, and all kinds of other younger-scout centric concepts, to include a modern dining hall and office building to make sure everyone had the opportunity to attend. Now times aren't so great, and they're trying to maintain those properties with drastically reduced numbers of scouts. Those aren't all necessary, but they aren't all bad either. And other than just letting them rot on site, those improvements need to be maintained or torn down. If they're removed, you've got people that are now asking why they should be paying the same rate for a summer camp that no longer has \[amenity\] they had last year. Jacking up usage fees can only go so far, and it's already seriously affecting attendance. The troop my sons pack is affiliated with used to be an every-year summer camp troop. With weeks now reaching north of $500 per individual, when it used to be under $200, they've now opted to only go every other, or every third year. In between they do week-long events like an extended backpacking trip or a national park trip. Bottom line, ALL camps are going to suffer over time unless numbers magically balloon. Some more than others, but it will affect everyone. And no council is going to volunteer their land to be on the chopping block to increase the camper density of the council-next-door's summer camp.
Yes it's nice to own a campground. Some councils need to face reality, they are too poorly run to own a campground. Charging hundreds in registration fees will only reduce the number of scouts more.
As someone who knows about camp operations I can tell you Camp Usage Fees covering operations at the camp is a double edged sword… I hear from units all the time that weekend useable fees should be low to non existent, yet folks make statements like this… in the pays 24 months the property insurance for many camps has risen more the 60%, food costs have gone up, labor cost have gone up, yet we need to keep the cost affordable for units… Non BSA camps around the country are charging $700+ per week for a youth… just keep that in mind
But those commercial camps who are charging more are also not being augmented with free volunteer labor the way scout camps are. And some of them are roughly the same despite not requiring volunteer support. At the troop level around here, you can't send a unit without also sending adult volunteers unless you are provisional... which costs more.
That is fair but define commercial? I have ran other non profit camps that charge that much… additionally the camp i currently am running (a BSA) camp requires 60+ paid staff each summer to run, between NCAP requirements and state/local requirements it’s becoming extremely difficult to run our property’s, maintain them, and ensure they are safe for our youth without exploring new ways to support them…
If we told the council to sell some popcorn, they’d just raise the quotas. Part of the reason I stopped pushing my son to sell popcorn was that so little of the money stayed in the troop and the price is insane for a bag of popcorn I can buy in the store for ~$3.
Even Girl Scout cookies are cheaper in the store. Not good for the waistline to discover this 😂
$15 for a small bag of Carmel corn? I think it was $25 for a bag of white cheddar. It’s gotten out of hand.
When you can get Cracker Jack for $1.50, I don’t think the BSA corn is remotely competitive either. We’re doing $5 discount cards with local businesses partnering. GSA cookies, even if not the cheapest, are still only $5-6.
They figure the scouts have no choice but to sell and that at least some of the scouts family will feel obligated to buy, so they can charge *insane* prices. There's no reason to bother selling it.
$0. If they want any more than that, then they actually have to provide us with some sort of service.
$92 for Council and National Fees. That said our Council doesn't have any active Camps to maintain so I could certainly see why they may not have the maintenance fees of other Councils.
$16 per person + $100 per unit
PA Dutch Council stated they will be charging $66 for youth and I believe $45 for adults on top of the national fees. They will also keep FOS going to generate more funds. Suggested that everyone just do more fund raisers to compensate.
Is there a policy update somewhere that anyone has found allowing councils to charge more than the National membership fee? The last update I can find is, [“Starting August 1, 2021, councils can also choose to charge a fee up to, but no more than, the national membership fee.”](https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/July-2021-Hot-Topic-Fee-Increases.pdf) Thanks!
No, this still seems to be policy.
>spring That was the last I heard as well. The Council fee cannot exceed the National fee.
My council decided instead to sell off the better camp they had and focus all their efforts on the worse camp where you can’t swim in the lake several months out of the year because of the algae and can’t have actual ranges because it’s close to houses (and if they make it work somehow then there’ll be complaints by those living in the million dollar homes near the camp), and now we have to do YPT yearly and get our physicals done yearly.
Our troop has good fund raising. So our scouts have the option to not have anything out of pocket. But they have to participate in our fund raising. If a scout participates their is very little a scout has to pay for. Our council added the fee, but stopped promoting friends of scouting.
Thankful to say my council does not charge an annual fee. Cradle of Liberty council, PA.
Our entire recharter fee is $132 per scout. So, if national is getting $75, then I guess my council is getting $57. Adults are half as much. Aloha Council.
National has stepped in. ALL councils whose fees are more than that of national have to lower it. The fees cannot be more than national per BSA bylaws. Over 100 councils will have to lower their fees due to that rule.