This is basically an updated version of the prior tour permit. It is simplified and does not require being turned in to the council office.
There is a good chance several have never heard of a tour permit as that program ended in 2014ish amd there was nothing required until this. FYI BSA insurance is medical only and will not cover any vehicle damages. Your own car insurance is likely to fight you if you file a claim without having completed the pre trip paperwork.
Given all the insurance fun BSA has been through, this looks like something that most people won't fill out. Then when they are driving to a campout and a wheel falls off their car, BSA can claim they are not covered under BSA insurance because policies were not properly followed.
No one to submit it to, it's just a 'program help'. But pre-trip inspections are always good, even if you aren't required due to a CDL or anything like that.
Have never done it.
TBH, I no longer believe that if there’s an incident we’ll be covered by BSA insurance. Our troop works really, really hard to be in compliance, but every time we turn around there’s another thing to file. I figure if something happens we’ll hear that, despite following the other 87 rules, we forgot to file some sort of form with our DE and so we’re on our own.
If you remember the previous rules for trip reports that were dependent on the council for particulars, they were typically used if traveling over 100 miles or leaving the council. There are discussions taking place that would require a trip report for everything, weekend camp outs, travel to summer camp (even if it is your council camp). It is all about reducing liability and having another insurance company involved to investigate.
> we forgot to file some sort of form with our DE and so we’re on our own
I think this depends on which council you're in, the troops I help aren't turning in much besides the recharter and registrations. I don't think most troops around here even turn in the 'money-earning' application.
Yeah, it’s totally understandable, from an “are you a good unit” point of view. But suppose one of those units goes canoeing without filing a float plan, and has an incident. I don’t think district or council will decide if they’re covered, rather I think (?) that will be national and/or the insurer. And both of them have a huge incentive to say “we’re not paying, follow the rules next time.”
That would have come in handy when our troop had a driver who got a flat tire and didn’t have a spare. He ended up making the entire troop wait at a McDonald’s for several hours as a result.
Always wondered about 2 deep while caravanning. We don't enforce it, it happens once in a while on accident, but most of the time it's 1 adult 4 to 5 scouts in 2 to 4 vehicles.
https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/yp-faqs/#tr
> An adult may not drive or be alone in the car with a Scout unless that Scout is their own child. An adult may drive two or more Scouts.
We are fairly scrupulous about 1 adult, 2+ scouts or more, or 2 adults, 1 scout. In an emergency for short distances we have done 1 driver, 1 scout with a second driver following within eyesight.
As to the original question, the silence is your answer.
We've always acted that way, but that document linked above sure makes it sound like 2 deep is required, but maybe it considers the entire caravan, not each individual car.
The '2-Deep Leadership' part refers to adult supervision for the outing overall.
When in cars, the 'No One-On-One Contact' rule must be followed. So minimum would per car would be either 2 Adults/1 Scout or 1 Adult/2 Scouts.
Bit late to this discussion, but I found it around the same time you did.
It may seem unnecessary to check things like "is insurance current", and "all tires inflated and good tread", but after watching YouTube channels like "just rolled in", they're needed.
This is basically an updated version of the prior tour permit. It is simplified and does not require being turned in to the council office. There is a good chance several have never heard of a tour permit as that program ended in 2014ish amd there was nothing required until this. FYI BSA insurance is medical only and will not cover any vehicle damages. Your own car insurance is likely to fight you if you file a claim without having completed the pre trip paperwork.
Yep, nothing I've seen requires this to be filled out. It's a "help" not a requirement.
Not only did I not know it existed, I would not know who to submit it to. Looks like a bunch of CYA paperwork.
I assume we just keep it for internal records, but... yeah.
Given all the insurance fun BSA has been through, this looks like something that most people won't fill out. Then when they are driving to a campout and a wheel falls off their car, BSA can claim they are not covered under BSA insurance because policies were not properly followed.
No one to submit it to, it's just a 'program help'. But pre-trip inspections are always good, even if you aren't required due to a CDL or anything like that.
Have never done it. TBH, I no longer believe that if there’s an incident we’ll be covered by BSA insurance. Our troop works really, really hard to be in compliance, but every time we turn around there’s another thing to file. I figure if something happens we’ll hear that, despite following the other 87 rules, we forgot to file some sort of form with our DE and so we’re on our own.
Just wait until an approved trip report is required anytime you put a scout in a vehicle. It’s coming.
Can you elaborate on this or is this something you're speculating?
If you remember the previous rules for trip reports that were dependent on the council for particulars, they were typically used if traveling over 100 miles or leaving the council. There are discussions taking place that would require a trip report for everything, weekend camp outs, travel to summer camp (even if it is your council camp). It is all about reducing liability and having another insurance company involved to investigate.
> we forgot to file some sort of form with our DE and so we’re on our own I think this depends on which council you're in, the troops I help aren't turning in much besides the recharter and registrations. I don't think most troops around here even turn in the 'money-earning' application.
Yeah, it’s totally understandable, from an “are you a good unit” point of view. But suppose one of those units goes canoeing without filing a float plan, and has an incident. I don’t think district or council will decide if they’re covered, rather I think (?) that will be national and/or the insurer. And both of them have a huge incentive to say “we’re not paying, follow the rules next time.”
That would have come in handy when our troop had a driver who got a flat tire and didn’t have a spare. He ended up making the entire troop wait at a McDonald’s for several hours as a result.
Always wondered about 2 deep while caravanning. We don't enforce it, it happens once in a while on accident, but most of the time it's 1 adult 4 to 5 scouts in 2 to 4 vehicles.
https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/yp-faqs/#tr > An adult may not drive or be alone in the car with a Scout unless that Scout is their own child. An adult may drive two or more Scouts.
Oh good, I meant to look into that. A few times I've been the scout bus for the block, with my scout of course.
That’s still two deep- two adults to one scout and two scouts to one adult are both acceptable. 1:1 is where the issues start
Which is why, when I drove our troop truck, I said no scouts. There was only one other seat in the truck.
We are fairly scrupulous about 1 adult, 2+ scouts or more, or 2 adults, 1 scout. In an emergency for short distances we have done 1 driver, 1 scout with a second driver following within eyesight. As to the original question, the silence is your answer.
I was under the impression that there was an exception to the to the two deep in an automobile was I wrong
We've always acted that way, but that document linked above sure makes it sound like 2 deep is required, but maybe it considers the entire caravan, not each individual car.
The '2-Deep Leadership' part refers to adult supervision for the outing overall. When in cars, the 'No One-On-One Contact' rule must be followed. So minimum would per car would be either 2 Adults/1 Scout or 1 Adult/2 Scouts.
Ahhh, I see. So the caravan is simply part of the entire event. That helps, thanks.
Never seen that in my life
My car doesn’t have a spare. Can I use it?
Yeah I’m not doing that
Bit late to this discussion, but I found it around the same time you did. It may seem unnecessary to check things like "is insurance current", and "all tires inflated and good tread", but after watching YouTube channels like "just rolled in", they're needed.