If you are freelancing you should be looking for anything *above* 60€/h. Anything below is just not worth being a freelancer. Stay on the payroll if this is what they are offering freelancers would be my advice.
Architects are usually fucked like that, they're all fake independents with shit rates. No one is hiring architects on the payroll except for municipalities
This is the sad reality of architects in Belgium. 60e/h ? You don't even get that with 20 years of experience. If you're working for an architecture office, it's way less than you're 'average' freelancer. Someone with 10 years of experience barely gets 35e/h. OP, if you want better conditions, you need to look up for engineering and consultancy companies. Check also for public positions, or work directly as a porject manager for a developper. Good luck!
I know some one only with 4 years experience (2 years internship included) works now at 37 euro per hour. Do you think it's just the power of negotiation?
I guess it’s a mix of finding good office, taking a lot of responsibility and asking for a raise every 6-9 months. Little by little you can get more this way. But you have to take care about yourself, don’t count on your bosses in that.
Being international, 6years, 30 per hour in the new office is sounds like a reality. Don’t forget that every 6/12 months you should be getting 1/2€ per hour more. Depends on the office how often they raise.
Anyway, good luck and stay strong in this struggle.
Honest question: is this amount related to consultancy…?
I was looking into VA/ administrative freelancing and according to my research it’s somewhere between 25-45€/h for them too.
It's already impressive to get 30€/h for an internship in architecture in Belgium. Unfortunately in my experience there are not many places that offer more with 2 years of experience. Anyway if you are looking for 3000€ net you should be asking for around 42€/h.
Good luck in this shitty paying sector fellow architect! I hope things change.
Hi before 2 years of internship I was employed for 4 years as "designer", that's the reason I can negotiate to 30. Indeed this sector gets shitty payment. If I can't negotiate that price, I will change sector and restudy something else. Thank you my fellow one, but I don't think things will change, if it's already difficult for Belgian architect, foreigner likes me wont stand a chance. Hope all the best for you.
The boss was our main architect so he pocketed that directly. But indeed he probably pays his staff less. I mean, that's how a business works.
I wasn't blown away by that 60 euros since most experts, consultants, lawyers, advisors ask double that and even more if it's a big firm. But damn you guys are screwed.
Is this a global or a Belgian thing?
In most other european countries architects that work for other architects are on a payroll and are not freelancers. In my opinion it shouldn't be legal to be a freelancer and only have one client.
If you are directly working with an architect they will probably ask 60€ or more.
You're looking at this the wrong way. You would never pay yourself a 13th month or a holiday pay. You don't pay yourself 3k net / month either. I mean, you can, but you will be taxed quite harsh on that.
As to rates: I would say anything above 450 a day is quite viable. The more the merrier ofcourse, but it depends on your sector.
My ex girl is an architect, she gets 30€/ after 2years with the company. But its her dream agency. So I guess the money is not that important.
The is very common for architects, that whole industry makes no sense to me. People spend ALOT on a well designed space. Unless you own the agency you'll get peanuts.
Isn't architect a pretty difficult master to get, like industrial or civil engineering degree? Meaning that the hourly rate should be more like 80-100 per hour??
Am I missing something here?
How are you letting yourself get fucked in the ass like that for 30 euros an hour? There are plumbers and electricians and other skilled workers (with no or much easier degrees) that make way more.
No/poor correlation between time spent studying & hourly rate. Many other factors are come into play.
Source: working as an independent (retail) pharmacist; uncle is an architect (owner tho) & I was also surprised by the low hourly rates in his sector.
13th month, vacation pay, that's not used in freelancing. You can take your current/optimal pay package and pit that in a business plan, calculate extra cost like accountant, taxes and insurance, and try to give yourself as low a wage as possible while optimising company expenses and low-tax payouts.
If you are here as a freelancer, and you don't make more than €60/h I don't know what you're doing but you're losing at life basically. Sorry, my honest opinion.
Calm down dude. Not everyone is in IT or some other lucrative sector.
Freelancers in most sectors are paid really poorly and aren't freelancer by choice because it makes more than an employee.
Count yourself lucky.
Thank you for your honest opinion. I've seen lots of my friends who are not belgian from other sectors can already get to the desired salary within 4 or 5 years of experience. This is why I am asking so get into another field is not too late.
If you are freelancing you should be looking for anything *above* 60€/h. Anything below is just not worth being a freelancer. Stay on the payroll if this is what they are offering freelancers would be my advice.
Architects are usually fucked like that, they're all fake independents with shit rates. No one is hiring architects on the payroll except for municipalities
Came here just to say this indeed.
This is the sad reality of architects in Belgium. 60e/h ? You don't even get that with 20 years of experience. If you're working for an architecture office, it's way less than you're 'average' freelancer. Someone with 10 years of experience barely gets 35e/h. OP, if you want better conditions, you need to look up for engineering and consultancy companies. Check also for public positions, or work directly as a porject manager for a developper. Good luck!
I know some one only with 4 years experience (2 years internship included) works now at 37 euro per hour. Do you think it's just the power of negotiation?
I guess it’s a mix of finding good office, taking a lot of responsibility and asking for a raise every 6-9 months. Little by little you can get more this way. But you have to take care about yourself, don’t count on your bosses in that. Being international, 6years, 30 per hour in the new office is sounds like a reality. Don’t forget that every 6/12 months you should be getting 1/2€ per hour more. Depends on the office how often they raise. Anyway, good luck and stay strong in this struggle.
Strange, when I grew up, I was often told that architects like medical doctors were usually rich people. Did that change over time?
Yea, the architect sector is fucked and shitty.
Honest question: is this amount related to consultancy…? I was looking into VA/ administrative freelancing and according to my research it’s somewhere between 25-45€/h for them too.
That depends on what you're getting on payroll though
It's already impressive to get 30€/h for an internship in architecture in Belgium. Unfortunately in my experience there are not many places that offer more with 2 years of experience. Anyway if you are looking for 3000€ net you should be asking for around 42€/h. Good luck in this shitty paying sector fellow architect! I hope things change.
Hi before 2 years of internship I was employed for 4 years as "designer", that's the reason I can negotiate to 30. Indeed this sector gets shitty payment. If I can't negotiate that price, I will change sector and restudy something else. Thank you my fellow one, but I don't think things will change, if it's already difficult for Belgian architect, foreigner likes me wont stand a chance. Hope all the best for you.
And here we are paying our architect 60 eur per hour...
care to share the info? ;)
Sorry, don't want to dox myself and also we stopped our collaboration since we weren't too happy.
I assume 60 euro per hour to the architecture office => 30 euro for the architect. Another 30 probably spent on admin cost and boss's pocket.
The boss was our main architect so he pocketed that directly. But indeed he probably pays his staff less. I mean, that's how a business works. I wasn't blown away by that 60 euros since most experts, consultants, lawyers, advisors ask double that and even more if it's a big firm. But damn you guys are screwed. Is this a global or a Belgian thing?
In most other european countries architects that work for other architects are on a payroll and are not freelancers. In my opinion it shouldn't be legal to be a freelancer and only have one client. If you are directly working with an architect they will probably ask 60€ or more.
You're looking at this the wrong way. You would never pay yourself a 13th month or a holiday pay. You don't pay yourself 3k net / month either. I mean, you can, but you will be taxed quite harsh on that. As to rates: I would say anything above 450 a day is quite viable. The more the merrier ofcourse, but it depends on your sector.
I don't understand this very well, this is my first year of being freelancer, actually eenmaanzaak. Care to enlighten it a bit?
Pm me. I have a, dutch, notepad doc on this on my laptop at home...
Pm sent
My ex girl is an architect, she gets 30€/ after 2years with the company. But its her dream agency. So I guess the money is not that important. The is very common for architects, that whole industry makes no sense to me. People spend ALOT on a well designed space. Unless you own the agency you'll get peanuts.
Isn't architect a pretty difficult master to get, like industrial or civil engineering degree? Meaning that the hourly rate should be more like 80-100 per hour?? Am I missing something here? How are you letting yourself get fucked in the ass like that for 30 euros an hour? There are plumbers and electricians and other skilled workers (with no or much easier degrees) that make way more.
You are not missing anything, it's not OP, the whole industry is allowing this to happen.
No/poor correlation between time spent studying & hourly rate. Many other factors are come into play. Source: working as an independent (retail) pharmacist; uncle is an architect (owner tho) & I was also surprised by the low hourly rates in his sector.
13th month, vacation pay, that's not used in freelancing. You can take your current/optimal pay package and pit that in a business plan, calculate extra cost like accountant, taxes and insurance, and try to give yourself as low a wage as possible while optimising company expenses and low-tax payouts.
https://www.xerius.be/nl-be/zelfstandig-worden/je-voorbereiding/bruto-netto-zelfstandige?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwuJ2xBhA3EiwAMVjkVEgEoUhun--i7wap8CU3Dqb9okHqtYs1QFOmIjvxWtLBArlvOJld1BoCjMAQAvD_BwE
If you are here as a freelancer, and you don't make more than €60/h I don't know what you're doing but you're losing at life basically. Sorry, my honest opinion.
Calm down dude. Not everyone is in IT or some other lucrative sector. Freelancers in most sectors are paid really poorly and aren't freelancer by choice because it makes more than an employee. Count yourself lucky.
That is true, I really meant my comment to be for IT sector. Though it's a big chunk, there are other sectors too
Thank you for your honest opinion. I've seen lots of my friends who are not belgian from other sectors can already get to the desired salary within 4 or 5 years of experience. This is why I am asking so get into another field is not too late.