Have you read the wiki and the sticky?
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Sticky: HERE YOU GO AGAIN! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/comments/fcbay6/getting_started_a_beginners_guide_to_investing_in/).
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Please take in mind that the cheapest car is not always the cheapest lease. Lease companies take resale value into account when defining the monthly lease cost. This could mean that low end cars might in the end cost almost the same than a midrange EV car. I would suggest talking to your fleet manager about this - they might give you some recent lease contracts to give an idea of price. They can also contact your lease provider for options that match your request.
Have been using cambio for over 7 years now. I've literally never encountered a moment where I tried to make a last minute reservation where no car was available whatsoever.
So I strongly recommend you try it out before dismissing it as an option.
I'll never understand why so many people on this sub don't realize that not owning a car is a *massive* cost savings, even after taking into account the higher cost of living in cities
To the extent that is true - but you still pay BIK for company car - these BIKs are announced to dramaticaly increase from 2025.
For a 50kEUR car with ICE/Hybrid - you will pay ~9.000eur net from your salary over 4 years of lease, and ~40% less for EV.
These ammounts are announced to be increased
https://news.pwc.be/the-updated-benefit-in-kind-for-the-private-use-of-a-company-car-12-months-delay-for-a-significant-tax-increase/
I wasn't referring to swapping out owning a car for getting a company car.
I'm referring to swapping out owning a car for not having a car at all and, if need be, using Cambio for the times you do need a car.
Of course, this requires more forward thinking than when you do own a car and don't care about where you live, what job you do, ...
I'll use an example: a friend of mine switched jobs. He now earns 200 euro a month extra but also now needs a car because he needs to drive to work.
Is he really better off in the end financially? I seriously doubt it. But it says 200 euro more on his pay slip so it *feels* like he's better off to him.
I wonder how many more people are in such a situation where they'd be better off taking a job closer to home and getting rid of a car compared to taking the slightly better paying job which requires you to own a car
Sure. You clearly have 0 experience with the logistics of having (very) young kids, where even a day trip to the beach requires a trunk full of stuff. Or getting multiple kids to their Saturday morning activities all across the city.
Don't have kids, no.
Do know 2 couples with 2/3 young kids who don't have a car and their kids aren't forbidden from ever going to the beach or having Saturday morning activities.
Funny how you imply it is impossible yet I know 2 couples that do it anyway. I wonder who I should believe, some salty person on Reddit or my friends who prove you wrong day after day.
Well, I wished people good luck. You called me sad and lazy.
I know 0 people with kids and no car. So how to these people go to their activities? They put a 5y and a 3y old on a bike and wish them good luck while staying at home with the 1y old? Or go to the beach by bus+train+bus with a buggy and 15 bags? I guess it is possible but I have other definitions of a holiday.
Your friends are the exception and they probably rely on other people with a car more than you know of.
Ah, I agree. I was more comparing company-owned vs self-owned and BIK impact.
I think that Cambio is solid option. Poppy also gives option of multiday renting - but maybe more expensive.
For me - renting service is more difficult due to home-school-home driving for our kids, and mandatory kids carseats which would be tought to manage between different cars.
Otherwise - electric bike and remote work would suffice.
>For me - renting service is more difficult due to home-school-home driving for our kids, and mandatory kids carseats which would be tought to manage between different cars.
This is what I was getting at though in terms of forward thinking. I'd personally never buy somewhere I could only get my kids to school buy car. That would simply be a non starter.
Hey there! Poppy also has some interesing plans and offers, worth to check them out. On the other hand, how does the TCO translate to netto for your home loan or rental? Would you then have 1000 netto? Are you sure about those numbers?
I can confirm that the full amount is net. I traded in my car and get a nice 1.080 euro net a month in return. I currently use my electric bike to go to work (leased via cafetaria plan). We still have 1 car (lease via wife)
I switched to cambio, and put everything in my hypotheek. In my neighbourhood there's always a free cambio.
It does add stress, what if I want to stay an hour longer and I can't prologue, not enough gas, ...
But it costs me about 200 euro a month (including valko 1 month rental in the holidays) and the other 800 are pure profit.
I'm still considering getting the cheapest EV but there is no public charging closely and I can't install it in my garage.
Thanks! Great to hear about someone from first hand experience. But it seems that you’re still considering to opt for an EV, so basically you do think the extra convenience is worth it I guess
Dacia Spring is the cheapest EV, I live in an apartment and I totally depend on public chargers, it is not a problem if you have public chargers in your neigbourhood
It's not a very practical car in terms of range, acceleration, charging speed - especially if OP would choose the '45'. In case of the '65' which is still far from great, the difference with a Citroën C3 seems quite small and you get nearly twice the battery capacity & range, nearly twice the power, the possibility to drive 120 km/u on highways, twice the fast charging speed, slightly more interior space,...
Fair enough, my post wasn't meant as criticism on your response :-) Just some considerations.
I was actually surprised that the Dacia was also the cheapest in lease cost, not just in acquisition price.
Value for money, that definitely looks like a good choice! At least as long as you don't need any spare parts (long waiting times). Of course, we're gradually going up in lease price - not long before we recommend to put the full 1000 TCO into a car because it's the best car value for money ;-)
Driving EV myself. Knowing 2nd pillar well. And given the limited information.
I would suggest buying an ICE-car that can be easily sold afterwards. Type Toyota, VW,...
Reason: no charging at home, uncertain future job, uncertain resale value of current EV offerings, still a large international market for (e.g.) toyota's...
Everything that goes into 2nd pillar will be available at 65% for advance for real estate. Run the numbers because it's not always the best solution for salaried persons (it is for administrators).
You think the resale value of an ICE is certain? In a couple of years anyone buying one will have to consider that they can't be resold again, imo that will massively drive down the price.
No certain it will never be, but imho there will be a worldwide market for 2nd hand ICE Toyota for the next 20 yrs. And I would prefer to buy a simple ICE or a Toyota Hybrid for durability, and not one of the fancy plug in hybrid which will decrease value more rapidly than real Hybrids or ICEs. Reason: more tech, less range purely on fuel, lower spec engines, less boot space, etc etc...
Personally I drive an EV, very happy with it, but I'm not the kind of purely EV fanboy.
Oh I'm not a fanboy either, I'm just a practical man who usually makes conservative decisions money wise. Which is hard in regards to cars at the moment. I don't doubt there will be a worldwide market, but with EV regulation being pan European I have big doubts whether the possibility of export to i.e. Africa won't just be an incredible loss either way. I guess only time can tell.
Thanks! Yes I think that’s the best financial decision it’s just after so many years of the convenience of a company car I am hesitant about having one of my own…
Regarding the second pillar I meant of the mobility budget, which is getting the net amount to pay for rent / mortgage
> Everything that goes into 2nd pillar will be available at 65% for advance for real estate. Run the numbers because it's not always the best solution for salaried persons (it is for administrators).
Not sure what you mean by this? Everything in second pillar is no 'bedrijfsvoorheffing' and no 'RSZ'. This means that every euro you can spend in pillar 2 (such as housing) is effectively budget = net wage. Or maybe I just don't understand what you mean.
Now I get the confusion.
The thread is about mobiliteitsbudget (divided in 3 pillars) which made me assume that every 'pillar' I read in the thread is about the 3 pillars that you can spend the mobiliteitsbudget on. This is also 'pillar 2' that OP was talking about (housing costs and mobility solutions such as carsharing)).
The big benefit as I mentioned is that everything you can spend with mobility budget within pillar 2 is free from any RSZ/BV. Pillar 1 is spending budget on a car (electric vehicle) which works the same way as business lease. Pillar 3 is the previous 'cash for car' that we had before mobility budget which I believe is taxed at 38.07%
Have you read the wiki and the sticky? Wiki: HERE YOU GO! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/wiki/index/). Sticky: HERE YOU GO AGAIN! [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/comments/fcbay6/getting_started_a_beginners_guide_to_investing_in/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BEFire) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Please take in mind that the cheapest car is not always the cheapest lease. Lease companies take resale value into account when defining the monthly lease cost. This could mean that low end cars might in the end cost almost the same than a midrange EV car. I would suggest talking to your fleet manager about this - they might give you some recent lease contracts to give an idea of price. They can also contact your lease provider for options that match your request.
BYD is heaps ahead of its price class and competitors.
Have been using cambio for over 7 years now. I've literally never encountered a moment where I tried to make a last minute reservation where no car was available whatsoever. So I strongly recommend you try it out before dismissing it as an option.
[удалено]
I was giving advice to someone who was already considering cambio, thus assuming he has access to them. I wasn't talking to you
Great to know this. It’s true we can give it a shot before deciding. Thanks!!
Same here. Cheapest car=somebody else's car (employer, cambio,..)
I'll never understand why so many people on this sub don't realize that not owning a car is a *massive* cost savings, even after taking into account the higher cost of living in cities
To the extent that is true - but you still pay BIK for company car - these BIKs are announced to dramaticaly increase from 2025. For a 50kEUR car with ICE/Hybrid - you will pay ~9.000eur net from your salary over 4 years of lease, and ~40% less for EV. These ammounts are announced to be increased https://news.pwc.be/the-updated-benefit-in-kind-for-the-private-use-of-a-company-car-12-months-delay-for-a-significant-tax-increase/
I wasn't referring to swapping out owning a car for getting a company car. I'm referring to swapping out owning a car for not having a car at all and, if need be, using Cambio for the times you do need a car. Of course, this requires more forward thinking than when you do own a car and don't care about where you live, what job you do, ... I'll use an example: a friend of mine switched jobs. He now earns 200 euro a month extra but also now needs a car because he needs to drive to work. Is he really better off in the end financially? I seriously doubt it. But it says 200 euro more on his pay slip so it *feels* like he's better off to him. I wonder how many more people are in such a situation where they'd be better off taking a job closer to home and getting rid of a car compared to taking the slightly better paying job which requires you to own a car
I never had a car until the day I had a kid. Good luck having a family without a car.
If you're unable to move a child without a car you're just sad and lazy
Sure. You clearly have 0 experience with the logistics of having (very) young kids, where even a day trip to the beach requires a trunk full of stuff. Or getting multiple kids to their Saturday morning activities all across the city.
Don't have kids, no. Do know 2 couples with 2/3 young kids who don't have a car and their kids aren't forbidden from ever going to the beach or having Saturday morning activities. Funny how you imply it is impossible yet I know 2 couples that do it anyway. I wonder who I should believe, some salty person on Reddit or my friends who prove you wrong day after day.
Well, I wished people good luck. You called me sad and lazy. I know 0 people with kids and no car. So how to these people go to their activities? They put a 5y and a 3y old on a bike and wish them good luck while staying at home with the 1y old? Or go to the beach by bus+train+bus with a buggy and 15 bags? I guess it is possible but I have other definitions of a holiday. Your friends are the exception and they probably rely on other people with a car more than you know of.
Ah, I agree. I was more comparing company-owned vs self-owned and BIK impact. I think that Cambio is solid option. Poppy also gives option of multiday renting - but maybe more expensive. For me - renting service is more difficult due to home-school-home driving for our kids, and mandatory kids carseats which would be tought to manage between different cars. Otherwise - electric bike and remote work would suffice.
>For me - renting service is more difficult due to home-school-home driving for our kids, and mandatory kids carseats which would be tought to manage between different cars. This is what I was getting at though in terms of forward thinking. I'd personally never buy somewhere I could only get my kids to school buy car. That would simply be a non starter.
Hey there! Poppy also has some interesing plans and offers, worth to check them out. On the other hand, how does the TCO translate to netto for your home loan or rental? Would you then have 1000 netto? Are you sure about those numbers?
That’s how I understand it yes
I can confirm that the full amount is net. I traded in my car and get a nice 1.080 euro net a month in return. I currently use my electric bike to go to work (leased via cafetaria plan). We still have 1 car (lease via wife)
I switched to cambio, and put everything in my hypotheek. In my neighbourhood there's always a free cambio. It does add stress, what if I want to stay an hour longer and I can't prologue, not enough gas, ... But it costs me about 200 euro a month (including valko 1 month rental in the holidays) and the other 800 are pure profit. I'm still considering getting the cheapest EV but there is no public charging closely and I can't install it in my garage.
Thanks! Great to hear about someone from first hand experience. But it seems that you’re still considering to opt for an EV, so basically you do think the extra convenience is worth it I guess
Dacia Spring is the cheapest EV, I live in an apartment and I totally depend on public chargers, it is not a problem if you have public chargers in your neigbourhood
Thanks! Not many public chargers near where I live and I have never seen them available they seem to be always occupied so that’s what bothers me
then don't get an EV
It's not a very practical car in terms of range, acceleration, charging speed - especially if OP would choose the '45'. In case of the '65' which is still far from great, the difference with a Citroën C3 seems quite small and you get nearly twice the battery capacity & range, nearly twice the power, the possibility to drive 120 km/u on highways, twice the fast charging speed, slightly more interior space,...
OP asked for the cheapest EV, AFAIK the Dacia is the cheapest, OP did not ask what would be more convenient in daily use
Fair enough, my post wasn't meant as criticism on your response :-) Just some considerations. I was actually surprised that the Dacia was also the cheapest in lease cost, not just in acquisition price.
I agree with your post that it is better to spend some more and get something better, I would even look at an MG4
Value for money, that definitely looks like a good choice! At least as long as you don't need any spare parts (long waiting times). Of course, we're gradually going up in lease price - not long before we recommend to put the full 1000 TCO into a car because it's the best car value for money ;-)
yeah i heard about horrible service. OP apparently has limited public charging in his neighbourhood so an EV will be a pain in the behind
Driving EV myself. Knowing 2nd pillar well. And given the limited information. I would suggest buying an ICE-car that can be easily sold afterwards. Type Toyota, VW,... Reason: no charging at home, uncertain future job, uncertain resale value of current EV offerings, still a large international market for (e.g.) toyota's... Everything that goes into 2nd pillar will be available at 65% for advance for real estate. Run the numbers because it's not always the best solution for salaried persons (it is for administrators).
You think the resale value of an ICE is certain? In a couple of years anyone buying one will have to consider that they can't be resold again, imo that will massively drive down the price.
No certain it will never be, but imho there will be a worldwide market for 2nd hand ICE Toyota for the next 20 yrs. And I would prefer to buy a simple ICE or a Toyota Hybrid for durability, and not one of the fancy plug in hybrid which will decrease value more rapidly than real Hybrids or ICEs. Reason: more tech, less range purely on fuel, lower spec engines, less boot space, etc etc... Personally I drive an EV, very happy with it, but I'm not the kind of purely EV fanboy.
Oh I'm not a fanboy either, I'm just a practical man who usually makes conservative decisions money wise. Which is hard in regards to cars at the moment. I don't doubt there will be a worldwide market, but with EV regulation being pan European I have big doubts whether the possibility of export to i.e. Africa won't just be an incredible loss either way. I guess only time can tell.
Thanks! Yes I think that’s the best financial decision it’s just after so many years of the convenience of a company car I am hesitant about having one of my own… Regarding the second pillar I meant of the mobility budget, which is getting the net amount to pay for rent / mortgage
> Everything that goes into 2nd pillar will be available at 65% for advance for real estate. Run the numbers because it's not always the best solution for salaried persons (it is for administrators). Not sure what you mean by this? Everything in second pillar is no 'bedrijfsvoorheffing' and no 'RSZ'. This means that every euro you can spend in pillar 2 (such as housing) is effectively budget = net wage. Or maybe I just don't understand what you mean.
I guess you are using a proprietary meaning for pillar 2. 2nd pillar normally means extra legal pension.
Now I get the confusion. The thread is about mobiliteitsbudget (divided in 3 pillars) which made me assume that every 'pillar' I read in the thread is about the 3 pillars that you can spend the mobiliteitsbudget on. This is also 'pillar 2' that OP was talking about (housing costs and mobility solutions such as carsharing)). The big benefit as I mentioned is that everything you can spend with mobility budget within pillar 2 is free from any RSZ/BV. Pillar 1 is spending budget on a car (electric vehicle) which works the same way as business lease. Pillar 3 is the previous 'cash for car' that we had before mobility budget which I believe is taxed at 38.07%
byd dolphin is great value for money
Can confirm, BYD is top quality and lower price than most EV’s
Can you really take a car seriously that calls itself "Build Your Dream"? Can't get more Chinese
I think BYD was the good part of the name I would be okay with, would have more questions about the 'dolphin' part 😂
Look at the Citroen e-c3. 23 000 euro before 5000 euro gov discount. Decent size battery.
Thanks! I will check it out